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Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Perd Hapley on September 24, 2005, 09:27:43 PM

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 24, 2005, 09:27:43 PM

On THR, I hear much talk of the SHTF. I am curious as to why firearms are desired for this possibility. To me, some tarps, ponchos, or raincoats would be the right response, followed by cleaning equipment.

And why do so many seem to expect this problem? Is this something peculiar to those who keep pet birds? Or are monkeys throwing waste matter at fans? Are the guns needed to shoot the birds and monkeys?

Any explanation is appreciated,

fistful

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Winston Smith on September 24, 2005, 09:42:54 PM

I'd like to hear an argument similar to this one utilizing Fear, phallic symbols, and meaning-giving drama.

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Guest on September 24, 2005, 11:44:36 PM

The veneer of civilization is thin in some places.

New Orleans is a classic example. Gangs of looters started running around loose inside the first 24 hours and weren't controlled again for at least two weeks. That's to be expected any time the gov't loses control of an area - and especially when there's a heavy dose of government-dependent people around who have no personal interest in their community because the gov't will give them something else if they burn what they've got.

Now that said: I don't think having guns around "just in case the SHTF" makes sense. Rather, guns must be combined with a "pro-community mindset" and are the LAST element to that mindset. It starts with knowing your neigbors, being alert to what's going on, known as being somebody who's worth a damn and cares about everything from crime on the street to crime in city hall.

WE are the militia. The above isn't glamorous, it's kinda annoying at times, but it's what a free citizen genuinely living as the Founding Fathers intended does. And if the formal gov't loses control of the community, the militia steps in...which is just another way of saying that the people with the most to lose step in and makes sure they don't collectively lose it.

On the other hand, people with nothing to lose don't act that way. Which is the most dangerous thing about welfare in general.

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Jamisjockey on September 25, 2005, 04:02:07 AM

Quote from: fistful

All you have to do is watch what happened in New Orleans to answer your question.
Hell, people started looting in Beaumont during hurricane Rita. Didn't even wait for the wind to stop.
If you expect to not have some thug take your kid's food and water away, you best be prepared to defend yourself and your family.
+1 on Jim March's comments.

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: roo_ster on September 25, 2005, 05:21:57 AM

"Anarchy: It looked great on paper."
----Rex*

Well, the anarchists** got what they said they wanted down in NO: minmal/nonexistent gov't presence. The results of the experiment sure looked different from what they advertised. IOW, their theory got run over by the bulldozer of reality.

Folks who see the need for a firearm during SHTF have some understanding of the nature of humanity. Without the constant effort of the civilising forces in our society, we will end up in an anarchist dystopia that looks a lot like NO. Technology may advance, but human nature is constant.

* After briefing Rex & a couple other buddies as to the history & circumstances of Europe's Dark Ages, Rex came out with that bit of wisdom.

**As opposed to the libertarians, who want the minimum amount of gov't necesary to enforce contracts and protect life, liberty, & property of the citizens

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Guest on September 25, 2005, 06:05:31 AM

Jim March's comments
+2

I was raised where firearms were part of the tools in the toolbox of stuff one kept handy. Knowledge , training and awareness were the biggest tools.

Sure water, canned goods, lanterns, candles, flashlights...you name it, etc., were great for Tornados, bad weather,loss of power, floods, ice storms and such. I recall very well having to use Firearms to make areas safe of snakes, after tornados and floods. Folks having to protect property from looters when Mother nature was unkind. I know firsthand what a kid with a .22 lr revolver can do when his front door is brick- batted in during riots and he is in charge of the safety of 3 younger sibs. I was that kid.

We did not have 911 when I grew up. We did know our neighbors, we did have a plan and a back up plan. We were not raised to "depend" on anyone but ourselves. We figured the authorities were kinda busy and their services were needed doing really important stuff.

Knowledge, training and awareness comes into play of all the 'tools' one has, be it trimming a wick for a oil lamp, how to make a fire in a fireplace, how to cook on the fireplace, how to syphon gas for a generator, syphon water from a jug, rain barrel, get a tarp to fix a hole in a roof, using a chainsaw...to knowing how to shoot.

Some elephants are bigger than others - they are all real to the individuals facing them at the time. There is not a set , or defined toolbox - for these elephants, never will be. Never hurts to borrow ideas and have some tools in that toolbox you may feel you may never need. Just have the knowledge, training and the wherewithall to use them if called upon.

Then again like the lady said " honey, with one of "those", you can get all of "them" ya want" Cheesy

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Art Eatman on September 25, 2005, 06:07:16 AM

fistful, pardon me if I appear a bit hostile, but how in the world can you ask that question after the amount of news on the Internet and TV and in the papers about the aftermath of Katrina in New Orleans? Can you not relate the robberies and murders there, with your own little piece of the world?

You never heard of the LA riots after the Rodney King trial?

And you don't need the sort of societal breakdown of SHTF. There's plenty of reason for the capability of armed self defense, in each and every daily newspaper...

Art

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Antibubba on September 25, 2005, 06:55:52 AM

Because when a piece of human scum is raping your child, you need to do more than cover it over with a tarp.

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: K Frame on September 25, 2005, 07:53:49 AM

The bad juju that went on after Hurricane Katrina, in the shelters and the looting, the riots and looting that went on in L.A. after Rodney King trial verdict, the looting and crime that went on after Hurrican Andrew in Florida...

Those are mini *expletive deleted*it hitting the fan scenarios. Wouldn't YOU want to be armed and able to protect yourself if you were in such a scenario?

Or would you just meekly raise your hands, wait for the police, and beg someone not to hurt you or your equally defenseless family members?

Did you even WATCH the news and see the looting, or the interviews with some of the people who were in the Superdome or the Civic Center?

Back in 1992 or so, there were the Cinco De Mayo riots in Washington, DC. During the second night of riots there was a LOT of looting and burning of stores and property along the 16th Street corridor.

Even the Washington Post mentioned that one of the only stores to be spared along a large segment of looted and burned out stores was the one where the owner was camped out in front with a shotgun.

When it snows, you get a snow shovel.

When it rains, you get a poncho.

When civil order starts crumbling around you, you get a gun, or you get to be a victim.

Jesus, after the past 3 weeks, it just baffles me that there are still people who are aparently so freaking clueless.

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: duck hunt on September 25, 2005, 07:56:01 AM

Don't worry, Fistful, *I* got it.

I laughed so hard I snorfed my coffee.

Some folks around these parts need a humor infusion.

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Guest on September 25, 2005, 08:07:08 AM

I think it would be easier to just move the fan! Saves on ammunition, too!

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: SADShooter on September 25, 2005, 08:08:33 AM

Good case for an irony smiley.

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Justin on September 25, 2005, 09:23:05 AM

Quote

Good case for an irony smiley.

Don'cha think?

/I'm so sorry

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Standing Wolf on September 25, 2005, 10:06:07 AM

Quote

...I don't think having guns around "just in case the SHTF" makes sense. Rather, guns must be combined with a "pro-community mindset" and are the LAST element to that mindset.

I concur. As far as I'm concerned, everybody ought to have a first aid kit, flash light, spare clothing, spare tire, fire extinguishers, a gun or two, et cetera. An awful lot of people seem to believe emergencies happen only to other people.

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: garyk/nm on September 25, 2005, 11:05:55 AM

Reading for comprehension....try it sometime, folks.

Good one, fistful. Still laughing.

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Guest on September 25, 2005, 11:16:54 AM

Amazingly, there IS a working anarchy in the US, a place where the government isn't in control at all and it mostly does OK. It's inhabited (well, part of the year anyways) by people who are extremely self sufficient and boasts churches, a library, a community comm system based on CB radio broadcasts...it's...something I intend to study up close at some point, on vacation or something. And it's in California of all places.

It's called Slab City:

http://vagabonders-supreme.net/SlabCity.htm

http://www.slabcity.org/

http://www.desertusa.com/mag05/feb/slab.html

http://www.clui.org/clui_4_1/lotl/lotlsp96/slab.html

If you go: don't forget to bring a few gallons of paint for Leonard. Any kind, he doesn't care

.

And yeah, bring a gun or two, but you probably won't need 'em. Most urban areas are more dangerous.

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: thorn on September 25, 2005, 11:46:08 AM

im still trying to figure out where all these turd throwing monkeys come from all of a sudden.
that really does sound messy.
i think once a monkey has a hand full of turd, it might be times to shoot it before it really gets out of hand.

that's why you need the gun first. the cleaning supplies are secondary, although perhaps the poncho.....
so yeah, keep a ponch in your pocket would be the moral of the story here i guess.

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Silver Bullet on September 25, 2005, 11:46:42 AM

And, as someone once observed, "When it hits the fan, it won't be distributed evenly."

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: gaston_45 on September 25, 2005, 07:43:27 PM

Thorn, is that a poncho in your pocket or are you happy to see the monkey??

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 26, 2005, 07:39:05 AM

This barbaric resort to violence is precisely what is wrong with this sick country. How many times must the blood of birds and monkeys run in the streets, until we learn to get along?

I will pray for you all.

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 26, 2005, 07:41:25 AM

fistful, your a stupid blissninny moron.

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: client32 on September 26, 2005, 08:21:21 AM

fistful, it is worng for you to talk down and insult fistful that way. fistful was simply trying to ask a question, and you come here and use names like blissninny moron. I am ashamed. angry

I'm still laughing as well. As to resorting to violence, if you can calmly talk a monkey out of slinging poop then maybe you can teach us, but until then.......

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Zundfolge on September 26, 2005, 08:48:49 AM

Quote from: fistful

on THR, I hear much talk of the SHTF. I am curious as to why firearms are desired for this possibility. To me, some tarps, ponchos, or raincoats would be the right response, followed by cleaning equipment.

THR is a gun forum, not a tarp, pancho or raincoat forum. So you go there to discuss guns.

If you'll look a little closer then you'll see that there is plenty of discussion of other SHTF equipment.

Of course the references to birds and monkeys makes me think ole fistful hit a bowl full of "interstate commerce" before he posted Tongue

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Strings on September 26, 2005, 09:00:35 AM

You better be careful of them tarps, fistful: TCI (Tarp Control Inc) said that you're 57% more likely to be involved in a dangerous covering if you have a tarp in your home. But if you MUST have one, it should be stored in a locking cabinet, seperate from it's ropes. And for gods sake, keep it away from the kids!

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Silver Bullet on September 26, 2005, 09:23:26 AM

Quote

THR is a gun forum, not a tarp, pancho or raincoat forum.

Absolutely right. In fact, here's a raincoat forum:

http://hazard.com/forum/read.php?f=2&i=68&t=68

I'll bet they would appreciate posts along the lines of "What kind of raincoat is best when the SHTF?" I would think it would tend to expand their consciousness about the utility of raincoats. :/

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: charby on September 26, 2005, 10:07:31 AM

"Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?"

For the same reasons people want firearms when the S isn't HTF.

Charby

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: griz on September 26, 2005, 10:25:06 AM

No fans involved but: I reloaded some rounds for my brothers 243. He went shooting at the cattle farm where he hunts, and reported that the light weight hollow points were much better than the deer bullets for the .... shall we say, targets of opportunity that one finds in a cow pasture. So now he calls that load the cow patty bullets.

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Silver Bullet on September 26, 2005, 10:33:32 AM

But what youre describing is more a FHTS (or BHTS) scenario instead of SHTF.

Scatalogical humor: piling it higher and deeper.

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 26, 2005, 01:36:26 PM

Quote

Good case for an irony smiley.

I need a speechless emoticon. I couldn't believe the responses I got. I figured I'd get half-a-dozen responses to my stupid joke, plus a couple of misunderstandings.

It looks like some just responded to the title, without reading my post. That is silly, but understandable. What really cracks me up the responses from Antibubba and JamisJockey, one of whom actually quoted me, but didn't bother to read what I said.

Come on, youse guys!

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 26, 2005, 01:40:26 PM

Zundfolge, Silver Bullet, y'all got me confused.

Interstate what?

What are them crazy initials?

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Silver Bullet on September 26, 2005, 01:52:26 PM

I got your joke, I was just going along with it and diverting it down an even sillier path.

My lame FHTS gag was a response to Griz' comments. The letters mean the same thing they do in SHTF. The B in BHTS is for bullets.

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: 280plus on September 26, 2005, 03:19:58 PM

Reminds me of a joke rolleyes

...

This guy is in a bar and has to do a doo doo (keeping it clean). So he asks the bartender where he might go to do this and the bartender tells him how to get to the Men's room, "Go up the stairs head down the corridor and it's the third door on the left. BUT, I don't care how bad you have to go DO NOT go down the hole you'll see in the floor halfway down the corridor. This is VERY important!" So the guy says OK and takes off up the stairs and lo and behold forgets the directions and can't find the right door. Now this is becoming an emergency so he whips down his drawers and does his business right down the aforementioned hole in the floor. He finishes up, wanders back downstairs where he is greeted by total devastation, the place is trashed, dead bodies everywhere. He hears some moaning coming from behind the bar where he finds the bartender laying in a heap on the floor, barely clinging to life. The guy asks him, "Geez, what happened here?!" The bartender looks at him and says, WHAT HAPPENED!?!?!? Where were YOU when the SHTF?!?!

Then there's THIS one...

A guy walks into a bar New Years Day and says to the bartender, "Man, that was a helluva party last night, about the only thing I remember is taking a dump in a golden toilet!" The bartender yells out,"HEY HARRY!! I FOUND OUT WHO CRAPPED IN YOUR TUBA LAST NIGHT!!!"

Nyuk nyuk nyuk...

Tongue

Oh OK, one more Cheesy

Guy walks into a resort in Texas, this is his first trip to the state so he bellys up to the bar and asks for a beer. The bartender brings him a beer in a glass so big it must hold at least a gallon. The guy says, "How come this beer is so big?" The Bartender says,"You're in Texas now, everthing is bigger in Texas." So he orders up a steak and soon out comes the biggest steak he's ever seen. Again he asks the bartender, "How come this steak is so BIG!?" The bartender answers, "I told you, you're in Texas now, EVERYTHING is bigger in Texas." So he finishes his meal and true to life he now has to answer the call of nature. He gets directions to the Men's room from the bartender but on his way he takes a wrong turn and falls right ino the pool. He starts yelling, "PLEASE!!! DON'T FLUSH IT!!! PLEEEEAAAAASE!!! DON'T FLUSH IT!!!

Shocked

Lord, I apologize for them ones right thur...

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Silver Bullet on September 26, 2005, 04:34:18 PM

I like #1 and #3.

That business about the steaks in Texas is no joke. The last time I was in El Paso, I went into Cattlemen's Restaurant and they offered a 72-ounce steak.

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: 280plus on September 26, 2005, 04:41:29 PM

Quote

offered a 72-ounce steak

72 OZ?!? I could feed the family for a week on that!

Yea #2 is a little rougher than 1 and 3, I was working a theme...

Tongue

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Antibubba on September 26, 2005, 10:03:51 PM

And what makes you think my response wasn't as funny as your post?

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: client32 on September 27, 2005, 03:18:56 AM

Quote

72 OZ?!? I could feed the family for a week on that!

Amarillo has a place that will give you a free one, but only if you eat all of it. I don't know what the price of it is if you don't get it down.

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 27, 2005, 03:52:19 AM

Antibubba; nice try.

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: duck hunt on September 27, 2005, 05:56:06 AM

Quote

And what makes you think my response wasn't as funny as your post?

Because child rape is always comedy gold.

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Jamisjockey on September 27, 2005, 06:29:40 AM

Quote from: fistful

Quote

Good case for an irony smiley.

Hey, I've got a two year old and a two week old. I'm running on an average 5 hours interrupted sleep. My sense of humor has deteroriated, as well as my ability to pick up on subtle jokes.

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: duck hunt on September 27, 2005, 07:08:47 AM

Jamis, you get a pass. I have a ten week old, and I probably wouldn't have gotten it eight weeks ago.

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Antibubba on September 28, 2005, 08:46:46 AM

Duck Hunt,

Read it again. The emphasis is on tarp, not on child rape.

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: duck hunt on September 28, 2005, 11:45:39 AM

So the mention of child rape was gratuitous, then?

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Antibubba on September 28, 2005, 10:07:14 PM

Exactly. I could have substituted "Extracting Granny's gold teeth with a pair of pliers", or "Having fifteen items in a 10-item express lane", or "Tying you up and forcing you to watch Steven Segal's acting".

Any horrific act would fit.

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: 280plus on September 29, 2005, 01:33:04 AM

Quote

Tying you up and forcing you to watch Steven Segal's acting".

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! ANYTHING BUT THAT!!!

shocked

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Silver Bullet on September 29, 2005, 03:02:01 AM

How about having your boat break down for an hour on Disney's "It's a Small World" ride ?

That actually happened to me on Disney's "Pirates of the Caribbean ride". I kept thinking, it could be worse ...

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Chris on September 29, 2005, 09:05:59 AM

fistful,

amazingly, even this late in the thread, so many have not caught on.

Personally, if I've got those kind of bird or monkey problems, I'm going to evacuate.

Chris

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Guest on September 30, 2005, 06:31:05 AM

Your weapons are useless! The poncho, the tarp- all modern inventions designed to mitigate the fecal impact, with little success. The secrets of the ancients are needed for this dreaded SHTF scenario--(also known to sailors) STAND UPWIND!

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: duck hunt on September 30, 2005, 06:33:45 AM

Quote

It happened to us in the devil room of Mr. Toad's Wild Ride. It was a tiny taste of the afterlife.

Title: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?
Post by: Silver Bullet on September 30, 2005, 06:39:51 AM

I was thinking that Disney should provide cyanide pills with the Small World boats so that if the ride broke down you would have options.

Armed Polite Society

Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Perd Hapley on September 24, 2005, 09:27:43 PM