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Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: oldfart on November 09, 2008, 12:46:03 AM

Title: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: oldfart on November 09, 2008, 12:46:03 AM
Shamelessly lifted from another board.  I hope it's worth it.

http://www.minionreport.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25378 (http://www.minionreport.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25378)
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: GigaBuist on November 09, 2008, 01:08:25 AM
1)  Can't see it without registering at the board, so I'm going to have to fly blind here.

2)  Pretty sure whatever you linked to relates to a lawyer in PA filing a suit, wasn't even granted standing, and thrown out.

3)  Even if the lawyer had been granted standing it'd take well over a year for it to get to the SCOTUS and even that would be break-neck speed.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: gunsmith on November 09, 2008, 01:09:32 AM

Oldfart, that link didn't work for me.


I have been wondering about that, I went to obamacrimes.com & it didn't seem well thought out.
I heard about it on coast to coast AM which is kind of suspect...

Also about 5 years ago on coast to coast AM I heard that the anti christ would be coming soon, he would be black, a great speaker and unify the whole world "for peace" then commit genocide!

At the time I thought it was too crazy for words....now I wonder...
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: gunsmith on November 09, 2008, 01:12:49 AM
Quote
2)  Pretty sure whatever you linked to relates to a lawyer in PA filing a suit, wasn't even granted standing, and thrown out.

it wasn't granted standing by an Obama supporting Judge, he said he couldn't have standing because it wasn't up to the plaintiff to see if Obama was qualified ...Judge never got around to birth cert.

personally it sounds crazy, but if true (Obama is illegal like his Aunt) it would be a real hoot!
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 09, 2008, 03:15:40 AM
Quote
At this point, Supreme Court Justice David Souter's Clerk informed Philip J. Berg, the lawyer who brought the case against Obama, that his petition for an injunction to stay the November 4th election was denied, but the Clerk also required the defendants to respond to the Writ of Certiorari (which requires the concurrence of four Justices) by December 1. At that time, Mr. Obama must present to the Court an authentic birth certificate, after which Mr. Berg will respond.

If Obama fails to do that, it is sure to inspire the skepticism of the Justices, who are unaccustomed to being defied. They will have to decide what to do about a president-elect who refuses to prove his natural-born citizenship.

"I can see a unanimous Court (en banc) decertifying the election if Obama refuses to produce his birth certificate," says Raymond S. Kraft, an attorney and writer. "They cannot do otherwise without abandoning all credibility as guardians of the Constitution. Even the most liberal justices, however loathe they may to do this, still consider themselves guardians of the Constitution. The Court is very jealous of its power - even over presidents, even over presidents-elect."

http://www.rightsidenews.com/200811072518/editorial/america-the-beautiful.html
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: A.M. Baer on November 09, 2008, 03:45:42 AM
So, if I am to understand that quote right Microbalrog, does this mean that the SCOTUS has officially required that Obama prove his natural-born citizenship by December?
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 09, 2008, 04:14:18 AM
So, if I am to understand that quote right Microbalrog, does this mean that the SCOTUS has officially required that Obama prove his natural-born citizenship by December?

I've no idea what i t means. I posted it verbatim, so that people with a bigger clue than me could comment.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: seeker_two on November 09, 2008, 08:01:00 AM
I doubt that there's anything wrong with Obama's citizenship.....if there were, Hillary would have hammered him to putty on it....
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: eyebrows on November 09, 2008, 08:15:13 AM
Quote
I doubt that there's anything wrong with Obama's citizenship

But you have to wonder why this guy, the president elect, is not doing anything to clear this up.
I am suspicious what the deal really is simply because he hasn't produced his birth certificate(which should be easy for him to do if it's legit). This many people questioning the president elect about this and he doesn't make an effort to clear it up???
Sounds a little sketchy to me.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Jamisjockey on November 09, 2008, 08:29:48 AM
But you have to wonder why this guy, the president elect, is not doing anything to clear this up.
I am suspicious what the deal really is simply because he hasn't produced his birth certificate(which should be easy for him to do if it's legit). This many people questioning the president elect about this and he doesn't make an effort to clear it up???
Sounds a little sketchy to me.

Why should he?  Its gained no, zero, zilch traction with the MSM.  The average American doesn't even know its an issue, or has heard a few rumblings from right wing talk radio about it and written it off as tin-foil-hattery.  Just by acknowledging it he'd give the issue traction. 
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: agricola on November 09, 2008, 08:41:42 AM
Why should he?  Its gained no, zero, zilch traction with the MSM.  The average American doesn't even know its an issue, or has heard a few rumblings from right wing talk radio about it and written it off as tin-foil-hattery.  Just by acknowledging it he'd give the issue traction. 

Perhaps, though it would have gained no traction at all if he had just offered it up earlier.  Now it appears that the SC are involved, and the media are that much more likely to cover it.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Viking on November 09, 2008, 09:03:17 AM
So, what would happen if it turns out he wasn't eligible for being elected? Biden becomes President by default, or would they have to re-do the entire election? Or would they quietly change the law?
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: K Frame on November 09, 2008, 09:09:18 AM
Can't change the law anytime soon.

It's a stipulation in the Constitution, and would require an amendment to change it.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: agricola on November 09, 2008, 09:22:51 AM
So, what would happen if it turns out he wasn't eligible for being elected? Biden becomes President by default, or would they have to re-do the entire election? Or would they quietly change the law?

I for one would be profoundly depressed, knowing that the funniest thing I will ever see in my life will have already taken place.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: K Frame on November 09, 2008, 09:24:39 AM
At the very minimum, you'd see some ugly elf riots all across the country.

Nearly 97% of elves supported Obama...
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Viking on November 09, 2008, 09:28:31 AM
Can't change the law anytime soon.

It's a stipulation in the Constitution, and would require an amendment to change it.
Which would require what, 75% of the states voting "Aye" to change it?
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: ronnyreagan on November 09, 2008, 09:29:18 AM
But you have to wonder why this guy, the president elect, is not doing anything to clear this up.
I am suspicious what the deal really is simply because he hasn't produced his birth certificate(which should be easy for him to do if it's legit). This many people questioning the president elect about this and he doesn't make an effort to clear it up???
Sounds a little sketchy to me.

The problem isn't that he hasn't done anything to clear it up, it's that people who are crazy enough to believe it will never be satisfied. If you do a google search for it, the first (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/obama-birth.html) two (http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/birthcert) results show the certificate, the third one is insisting it's a forgery (http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2008/08/proof-barack-obama-birth-certificate-is.html).
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: K Frame on November 09, 2008, 09:30:13 AM
A proposed amendment has to gain 2/3rds support in both the House and the Senate, after which it is sent to the states. 75% of the states have to approve the amendment for it to take effect.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: K Frame on November 09, 2008, 09:31:32 AM
"it's that people who are crazy enough to believe it will never be satisfied."

Oh come now, that's not true!

Everyone is now 100% satisfied that it WAS muslim hijackers who flew the planes on 9/11 and not George Bush clones.  :laugh:
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: eyebrows on November 09, 2008, 10:40:05 AM
Quote
The problem isn't that he hasn't done anything to clear it up, it's that people who are crazy enough to believe it will never be satisfied.

I would be satisfied if he produced a birth certificate and the Supreme Court accepted it. It seems a simple and prudent thing to do.  Anything else screams "somethings not right!", but maybe my tinfoil hat is cutting off circulation again.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: K Frame on November 09, 2008, 11:20:47 AM
The state of Hawaii has accepted and certified his birth certificate.

Since it's up to the states to take care of records like that, why should it be a concern for Diana and the Supremes?
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: eyebrows on November 09, 2008, 11:54:49 AM
Quote
Since it's up to the states to take care of records like that, why should it be a concern for Diana and the Supremes?
Because he's the president elect and this is a legitimate question. And most importantly because he is not being completely transparent about this.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: longeyes on November 09, 2008, 11:56:39 AM
De-certify the Election?--what a concept!

This is the same court that can't figure out where to hold the line on alien enemy combatants and came that close to jettisoning the Second Amendment.

They are Justices but they aren't fools.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: oldfart on November 09, 2008, 12:17:56 PM
Mike, the problem here is that he may not have Hawaiian Birth Certificate, only a Certificate of Live Birth.  In the late 50's and early 60's Hawaii had a large influx of Asian immigrants who had been born in mud huts in the jungle.  Parents could and would go to the State offices, fill out a form stating their child had been born on such and such a date, swear to it and thus record that birth.  Obama's sister was undeniably born in Indonesia, yet she too has a Hawaiin Certificate of Live Birth (COLB) just like the one we've been shown with her brother's name on it.

Example:  I was born in Portland, Oregon on a couch in the living room of a house that no longer exists.  There was a doctor in attendence and he signed two Birth Certificates.  One he gave to my mother (I now have it) and the other he forwarded to the County who duly recorded it before forwarding it on to the State.  The State microfilmed it (eventually) and then filed it somewhere.  I can go to the State office building here in Portland, fill out a request, pay $15 and get a COLB that doesn't look anything like the one in my safe-- no signature, no footprints, no coffee stains.  It doesn't even give the address of the house I was born in.  As a matter of fact, it looks much like the one palmed off on us as Obama's COLB.

What we need - and what the Supreme Court is now demanding - is the one with the coffee stains.  Considering the importance of the question I don't think it is an unreasonable demand.  

There are several ways this can come out.  He could simply furnish a certified copy and this would all blow over.  He could dig in his heels and refuse in which case the SC would have a choice to make:  Either invalidate the election or prevent the Electoral College from voting.  If they take either of those routes we can truly expect to see "blood in the streets" and they know it.  Rather than tear the country apart, they may choose to compromise in some way that would hopefully placate those of us who feel our Constitution has been shat upon.  I can't even imagine what such a compromise would look like.  Perhaps his head on a pole would buy most of us off but some would still clamor for more.

We certainly live in interesting times, don't we?
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: ronnyreagan on November 09, 2008, 12:38:41 PM
His certificate was released on his website and many others. How is that "not being completely transparent"? In addition to that Health Department Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said Friday she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate. (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iw1At-4G1xuE50oXVFRlBPfR3dqgD945OLU00)

I think some people will never be satisfied until they see video footage of Barack Obama being born, with a newspaper from Aug. 4, 1961 in the background along with a GPS unit confirming the location in Hawaii. Nah, that still probably wouldn't cut it. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: agricola on November 09, 2008, 12:44:37 PM
His certificate was released on his website and many others. How is that "not being completely transparent"? In addition to that Health Department Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said Friday she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate. (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iw1At-4G1xuE50oXVFRlBPfR3dqgD945OLU00)

I think some people will never be satisfied until they see video footage of Barack Obama being born, with a newspaper from Aug. 4, 1961 in the background along with a GPS unit confirming the location in Hawaii. Nah, that still probably wouldn't cut it. :rolleyes:

ronny,

I agree this is probably tinfoilery - the point is that we have not seen the birth certificate that those people have certified exists.  What traction this has had could easily have been avoided by showing it earlier, instead of getting lawsuits dismissed without having to show it.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: lanternlad on November 09, 2008, 12:55:11 PM
"I think some people will never be satisfied until they see video footage of Barack Obama being born, with a newspaper from Aug. 4, 1961 in the background along with a GPS unit confirming the location in Hawaii. Nah, that still probably wouldn't cut it."

I already saw that video. It's called Rosemary's Baby.
:)
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: red headed stranger on November 09, 2008, 04:57:32 PM
Even if he were born outside the United States, his mother was still a citizen. Therefore it is my understanding he would still be eligible to be president.   
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 09, 2008, 06:12:36 PM
wasn't there some legal tap dancing to do with moms age?
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: gunsmith on November 09, 2008, 06:14:24 PM
Quote
His certificate was released on his website and many others. How is that "not being completely transparent"? In addition to that Health Department Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said Friday she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.

I think some people will never be satisfied until they see video footage of Barack Obama being born, with a newspaper from Aug. 4, 1961 in the background along with a GPS unit confirming the location in Hawaii. Nah, that still probably wouldn't cut it.

A colb is not a birth cert. &  I do not trust Health Department Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino  and  Alvin Onaka, they probably are bureacrats(SP) in the tank for B.O anyway.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: De Selby on November 09, 2008, 06:25:25 PM
The "private demand" to see Obama's birth certificate is a blog rumor, not a part of the proceedings.

This is one of those theories that's just impossible to disprove, because the proponents don't accept any evidence.  If the actual piece of paper written on back in '61 is ever produced, they'll just call it a fake like they did the certificate from the state of hawaii. 

That's how conspiracy theories work: whenever evidence to disprove the theory comes up, you just include the evidence and its producer as part of the conspiracy, and the theory goes on.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: oldfart on November 09, 2008, 06:37:06 PM
Folks, I'm passing information along here that I don't completely understand but since the matter is so important I'm going to go ahead and toss it out and let you decide what to do with it.  This has been tossed back and forth by a number of attorneys on other forums.  Maybe they know what they're talking about and maybe not.  Maybe I didn't understand exactly what they were trying to say too.  Here goes.

At the time he was born the laws about babies born overseas were a bit different than now.  Evidently, a baby born in a foreign land could be an American citizen if it's mother was 18 years old and had lived in the US for a certain number of years prior to the birth.  His mother was 17 when he was born.

Then there's his adoption.  His adopted father took him to Indonesia and enrolled him in school.  Indonesia was involved in a war at the time and wasn't allowing non-citizens to enroll in schools.  Yet Barry, as he was known then, was enrolled in school and his registration papers clearly say he was a citizen and that his religion was Muslim.

His Kenyan grandmother has stated that she was present in the delivery room when he was born in Mombassa, Kenya.  His sister has told reporters that he was born in two different hospitals in Honolulu.  He has refused to show his birth certificate even if it would clear all this up.

Discussion from some other sources has gone over the danger of invalidating the recent election and the fact that the SC has to be cognizant of it.  There is also the possibility of a forged birth certificate, because if the government can make a new identity for someone in the witness protection program they should be able to cover his @$$ too and by now we all know that TPTB want him to be President and will do what it takes to get him in the oval office.

And, of course, this could all be a load of hogwash.  But it's interesting hogwash.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: red headed stranger on November 09, 2008, 06:43:03 PM
Quote
A colb is not a birth cert. &  I do not trust Health Department Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino  and  Alvin Onaka, they probably are bureacrats(SP) in the tank for B.O anyway.

It sounds like no proof will do then.  When it comes down to it, any document can be faked if you have enough bureaucrats "in the tank" for a person.  

If Obama had been born overseas, his mother could have gotten a Consular Report of Birth Abroad from a US consulate that would state that he obtained US citizenship at Birth.  Thousands of Children are born to US citizens overseas every year and are documented though this process.  It appears, though untested in the courts, that this documentation is sufficient for eligibility for office of POTUS.  

I am not happy about an Obama presidency, but I think that pursuing this too far just makes us look as silly as the people who can't give up on the 2000 election.  
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: red headed stranger on November 09, 2008, 06:51:57 PM
Quote
At the time he was born the laws about babies born overseas were a bit different than now.  Evidently, a baby born in a foreign land could be an American citizen if it's mother was 18 years old and had lived in the US for a certain number of years prior to the birth.  His mother was 17 when he was born.

This is an interesting bit of information that I was not aware of.  I wonder who has standing to challenge his eligibility in court? 

That said, I do strongly doubt that Obama would have gone through all of the trouble of running for president if he wasn't eligible, or have all his ducks in a row in terms of documentation.  I also believe that The Clintons would have had the resources to get the bottom of things and use it against him. 
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: ctdonath on November 09, 2008, 07:21:04 PM
Oldfart has that part right. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence that indicates, via several valid but complicated legal theories, that Barack is ineligible to be POTUS. These have enough meat that (A) they cannot be dismissed casually (and I'd like to), and (B) they cannot be addressed with flippant short posts on a discussion board. The Birth Certificate has not been published, period. There were two COLBs published, one apparently a fake. A COLB can look like a "natural born citizen" proof yet clearly be granted to someone who isn't. Barack may very well have been born in Kenya, then flown to HI three days later and duly registered. Barack's stonewalling is puzzling. Kenya's fondness for the guy is suspect. If he was born here, laws at the time indicate he wasn't legally a "natural born citizen" for complicated reasons. And on it goes, raising a hell of a lot of questions. As one who follows the debunking of conspiracy theories, methinks this one has legs.

To the thread's title:

The Supreme Court's docket lists
Quote
No. 08-570   
Title:    
Philip J. Berg, Petitioner
v.
Barack Obama, et al.
Docketed:   October 31, 2008
Lower Ct:   United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit
  Case Nos.:   (08-4340)
   Rule 11

~~~Date~~~    ~~~~~~~Proceedings  and  Orders~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oct 30 2008    Petition for a writ of certiorari before judgment filed. (Response due December 1, 2008)
Oct 31 2008    Application (08A391) for an injunction pending disposition of the petition for a writ of certiorari, submitted to Justice Souter.
Nov 3 2008    Supplemental brief of applicant Philip J. Berg filed.
Nov 3 2008    Application (08A391) denied by Justice Souter.
This is an appeal to SCOTUS to compel Obama to prove eligibility, after a PA court ruled that Berg (plaintiff) did not have standing to make such a demand.
Berg also asked SCOTUS to delay certification of the election until Obama complies; this has been denied.
The request for certiorari is still being processed. There is a rumor - and only a rumor - that the Chief Justice has asked Barack Obama to show him the original birth certificate.

So ... it's complicated. There's a lot of half-assed info being tossed around, much if it correct but incomplete unto misleading. The important part is that the issue has been brought before the Supreme Court, opening the door to them doing something. (They can't do anything if nobody complains.)

The particularly bad part is the very large number of celebratory supporters who will likely riot - in a big way - if their winning candidate is disqualified on a technicality (most likely: brought to US 3 days after birth, with his mother of marginally inadequate age & residency).

SCOTUS Docket 08-570. That's where it's all at now.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: ctdonath on November 09, 2008, 07:23:21 PM
Quote
I wonder who has standing to challenge his eligibility in court?

Fortunately the issue has reached the Supreme Court. They can kinda fudge things when it comes to "standing", "stare desis", and other quicksand issues.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: De Selby on November 09, 2008, 07:33:24 PM
Fortunately the issue has reached the Supreme Court. They can kinda fudge things when it comes to "standing", "stare desis", and other quicksand issues.

I would give it about a one percent chance that they fudge the standing issue to consider this case.

This whole "debate" has "political question" written in big red letters all over it. 

I don't think there are any factual legs to it either: the speculation that he might have been born in Kenya and then flown within days (was it even possible to get a flight from Kenya to HI in three days time back then?) just doesn't hold water. 
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: RocketMan on November 09, 2008, 08:13:57 PM
I just cannot believe the SCOTUS would open this can of worms.  If Obama were proven ineligible to be President, the political fallout in this country, riots notwithstanding, would be enormous.
My prediction: Nothing will come of this.  The SCOTUS will refuse to examine the issue.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: wquay on November 09, 2008, 08:34:04 PM
Can't change the law anytime soon.

It's a stipulation in the Constitution, and would require an amendment to change it.

My understanding is that the Constitution states "natural born citizen," but that Congress has considerable latitude to define what that means. McCain qualified because of a recent redefinition applied retroactively.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: neviander on November 09, 2008, 08:49:47 PM
I think this falls into the same category as Obama being able to get a security clearance.  Any other civilian, and some other politicians would NEVER be issued a security clearance if we had the associations that Obama does, but Obama is buds with too many lawmakers with agendas, so equal treatment under the law is out the window.

It would not surprise me one bit, if by some miracle, we learned unequivocally, that Obama was born in a hut in Kenya.  It also would not surprise me to watch the Godless lefties do what they do, and either pass it off as unimportant, deny it, or totally ignore it; the media would back them up and all but a few people would forget about it in a month.

The birth certificate issue is dead, the election is over.  It sucks, but se la vie.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Werewolf on November 09, 2008, 09:02:42 PM
Even if he were born outside the United States, his mother was still a citizen. Therefore it is my understanding he would still be eligible to be president.   

Wrong...

If she were wife of a military man serving overseas - yes
If she were wife to a member of the state department serving overseas - yes
If she was acting as an agent of the US government and gave birth overseas - yes

If simply a US citizen and the wife of a Kenyan and she gave birth to the messiah in Kenya - no. Obama would not be eligible to be president.

I had two brothers born overseas - one in Germany, one in Turkey - sons of a US Air Force Officer. Both have had to prove that Dad was active duty, while serving overseas when they were born on a number of occassions to prove citizenship. My brother born in Turkey had to get a proof of citizenship statement from the state department.

If Obama was born in Kenya - he isn't eligible to be President.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: De Selby on November 09, 2008, 09:05:19 PM


If Obama was born in Kenya - he isn't eligible to be President.

True-the problem is that there's no evidence he was born in Kenya, and there is a birth certificate and a period newspaper announcement to show that he was born in Hawaii, USA.


Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Werewolf on November 09, 2008, 09:05:57 PM
I just cannot believe the SCOTUS would open this can of worms.  If Obama were proven ineligible to be President, the political fallout in this country, riots notwithstanding, would be enormous.
My prediction: Nothing will come of this.  The SCOTUS will refuse to examine the issue.

If that's what they do even with credible evidence tha Obama is ineligible to be president then the constitution will have become good for little more than wiping one's ass with.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: taurusowner on November 09, 2008, 09:23:39 PM
True-the problem is that there's no evidence he was born in Kenya, and there is a certificate of live birth but not a birth certificate and a period newspaper announcement to show that he was born in Hawaii, USA.




At least make an attempt to get the facts right.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: De Selby on November 09, 2008, 09:28:10 PM
At least make an attempt to get the facts right.

The difference between those two terms is completely irrelevant.  Anywhere, in any position or office, that asks for "Birth Certificate" as proof of identity will take what Obama already made public. 

You can see for yourself the direction this is taking: Now that the Hawaii .gov has verified that there is indeed a piece of paper from 1961 recording the birth (which is what that certificate already did), they're accused of being "in on the plot" to make Obama president. 

No evidence, no matter how convincing, will ever settle this for the folks that don't want to believe Obama is a citizen.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: red headed stranger on November 09, 2008, 09:31:06 PM
Werewolf,

I am aware of the citizenship process.  I am currently a US contractor in Korea whose son was born overseas.  I sat through the whole briefing by a state department representative explaining the process.  US citizens living here that are not under the SOFA agreement (Such as English teachers) are also entitled to the same Consular report of Birth Abroad that my son received which states that he acquired US citizenship at birth.  

According to what I am hearing, the rules may have been more strict back in the 60's.  This could be a problem for Obama if he was born in Kenya.  That however is a pretty big if.  
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Jamisjockey on November 09, 2008, 10:42:01 PM
The "private demand" to see Obama's birth certificate is a blog rumor, not a part of the proceedings.

This is one of those theories that's just impossible to disprove, because the proponents don't accept any evidence.  If the actual piece of paper written on back in '61 is ever produced, they'll just call it a fake like they did the certificate from the state of hawaii. 

That's how conspiracy theories work: whenever evidence to disprove the theory comes up, you just include the evidence and its producer as part of the conspiracy, and the theory goes on.

Someone alert the MSM....I agree with SS for once.
This is like the ultimate conspiracy theory.  Even if someone puts an original birth certificate out on the web for all eyes to see.......someone is going to claim its fake.  There is just no way of knowing at this point.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Ron on November 09, 2008, 10:59:13 PM
It is a little hard to believe that the combined efforts of the Clinton machine and research by the RNC could have missed such a slam dunk.

It's a rabbit trail IMHO.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Gewehr98 on November 09, 2008, 11:03:31 PM
Quote
I think this falls into the same category as Obama being able to get a security clearance.  Any other civilian, and some other politicians would NEVER be issued a security clearance if we had the associations that Obama does, but Obama is buds with too many lawmakers with agendas, so equal treatment under the law is out the window.

Nope.  Elected government officials neither require, nor are issued, security clearances.  They are granted access to sensitive information solely by position of their office. 

More here:

http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=15604.0

Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas on November 09, 2008, 11:51:10 PM
They pulled the same crap on McCain, thanks to his Panama birth (IIRC). A Texan nimrod decided to try and sue so as to find Dick Cheney was a Texas resident, thus unable to run for president with GW.

I strongly expect this to be more of the same. If it were true, the novelist in me says it's a wicked clever Clinton conspiracy. For reasons that will appear in chapter 16, they decided not to spring this during the primaries, or just before the election. Instead, they decide to spring it just after he reaches the pinnacle of his public career. Just when making things official was a formality, all hopes (and change) are dashed to the ground. The election is somehow declared fraudulent and given to McCain (though I'd expect it be given to Biden), and Democrats curse the name of Obama for the next hundred years.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: taurusowner on November 09, 2008, 11:55:32 PM
I do agree with others that it's unlikely to be true simply for the fact that if it was, the Clintons would have found out.  I don't put any faith in the RNC and their alleged ability or even desire to dig up dirt on Obama.  I think the RNC's head is too far up their 6 to know how.  But the Clintons would have done anything to defeat Obama.  And if proving he's ineligible to be President were possible, the Clintons would have done so.  Never doubt the Clintons ability to cheat and destroy to get their way.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Lennyjoe on November 10, 2008, 12:02:57 AM
Who is left of his family that can dispute it? Mom, Dad, Grandmother?
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Harold Tuttle on November 10, 2008, 12:19:50 AM
tell me again when the electoral college votes?
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: freakazoid on November 10, 2008, 01:49:43 AM
Quote
I think some people will never be satisfied until they see video footage of Barack Obama being born, with a newspaper from Aug. 4, 1961 in the background along with a GPS unit confirming the location in Hawaii. Nah, that still probably wouldn't cut it.  ;/

Sort of like this picture,
(http://www.school-for-champions.com/biographies/images/lee_harvey_oswald_2.jpg)

 :lol:
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 10, 2008, 02:42:25 AM
Quote
I think some people will never be satisfied until they see video footage of Barack Obama being born, with a newspaper from Aug. 4, 1961 in the background along with a GPS unit confirming the location in Hawaii. Nah, that still probably wouldn't cut it.  rolleyes

Probably. GPS wasn't invented in 1961 so the picture would be obviously fake. [/smart-aleck].
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: neviander on November 10, 2008, 12:48:17 PM
Quote
Nope.  Elected government officials neither require, nor are issued, security clearances.  They are granted access to sensitive information solely by position of their office.

More here:

http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=15604.0
Sheesh, does that strike anyone else as really screwed up?  That's a cut and dry case of "Do what I say, not what I do" coming from daddy government.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 10, 2008, 12:56:06 PM
Sheesh, does that strike anyone else as really screwed up?  That's a cut and dry case of "Do what I say, not what I do" coming from daddy government.

No, it doesn't.

Remember that the President is vested with his authority directly with We The People.

The majority of the American People decided, by their vote, that Barack Obama shall command the United States military in war, and while I may disagree with his positions, I do not think it is proper to have an unelected official, whether he wears a uniform or not, to deny rom Barack Obama information that may be necessary for him to carry out the duties of that office.

However much respect we may have for the sacrifice of the men in uniform (police or military) we must remember that they are not in charge. WE are in charge.

Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Scout26 on November 10, 2008, 01:12:19 PM
Werewolf,

I am aware of the citizenship process.  I am currently a US contractor in Korea whose son was born overseas.  I sat through the whole briefing by a state department representative explaining the process.  US citizens living here that are not under the SOFA agreement (Such as English teachers) are also entitled to the same Consular report of Birth Abroad that my son received which states that he acquired US citizenship at birth.  

According to what I am hearing, the rules may have been more strict back in the 60's.  This could be a problem for Obama if he was born in Kenya.  That however is a pretty big if.  

I'll have to check with Mrs Scout, but IIRC when she was a NICU nurse at Landstuhl in Germany, she used to have to give a speech to all the new mommys and daddys about what they had to do to ensure that little Johnny or Susie got their American Citizenship papers.  They were automatically German Citizens.....
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: red headed stranger on November 10, 2008, 01:23:08 PM
I'll have to check with Mrs Scout, but IIRC when she was a NICU nurse at Landstuhl in Germany, she used to have to give a speech to all the new mommys and daddys about what they had to do to ensure that little Johnny or Susie got their American Citizenship papers.  They were automatically German Citizens.....

That's correct in Germany.  German law calls newborns German citizens if they are born in Germany, but you can still do the Consular Report of birth abroad so that the baby can obtain US citizenship at birth according to US law. 
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Tallpine on November 10, 2008, 05:23:54 PM
Just to muddy the waters, and I don't fully understand this, but we have a German neighbor who was born of German (Bavarian) parents in a hospital on an American military base and became an American citizen at birth.  =|
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: freakazoid on November 10, 2008, 05:31:01 PM
Aren't American bases and stuff considered American soil?
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 10, 2008, 05:32:30 PM
i've got a territorial birth certificate as does my sister. its sad but they confuse the clerks at some places. especially hers from wake island  
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Tallpine on November 10, 2008, 05:35:41 PM
Aren't American bases and stuff considered American soil?

Apparently so.  But I would have never imagined that foreign nationals having a baby on an overseas US military base would have inferred citizenship to the child. 

Never stop learning, I guess ...  =|
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Eleven Mike on November 10, 2008, 05:42:02 PM
Remember that the President is vested with his authority directly with We The People.

The majority of the American People decided, by their vote, that Barack Obama shall command the United States military in war, and while I may disagree with his positions, I do not think it is proper to have an unelected official, whether he wears a uniform or not, to deny rom Barack Obama information that may be necessary for him to carry out the duties of that office.

The Pres. is elected by the Electoral College, not by popular vote.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: charby on November 10, 2008, 05:44:17 PM
I was born in 1974 in Iowa, in a hospital and delivered by a doctor. My certificate says record of live birth.

Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 10, 2008, 08:32:23 PM
The Pres. is elected by the Electoral College, not by popular vote.

I know that, and that is a completely irrelevant point.

American public officials - all of them, but especially those elected - draw their power from The People.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: 86thecat on November 11, 2008, 01:37:22 AM
I do agree with others that it's unlikely to be true simply for the fact that if it was, the Clintons would have found out.  I don't put any faith in the RNC and their alleged ability or even desire to dig up dirt on Obama.  I think the RNC's head is too far up their 6 to know how.  But the Clintons would have done anything to defeat Obama.  And if proving he's ineligible to be President were possible, the Clintons would have done so.  Never doubt the Clintons ability to cheat and destroy to get their way.

Clintons couldn't publicly go against the Democratic Party, but it gets interesting if you check out the Berg connection and the Philadelphia lawsuit.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: seeker_two on November 11, 2008, 10:56:40 AM

American public officials - all of them, but especially those elected - draw their power from The People.


I think that was repealed sometime in the '70's.......
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Werewolf on November 11, 2008, 04:23:22 PM
I know that, and that is a completely irrelevant point.

American public officials - all of them, but especially those elected - draw their power from The People.

Not when your choices are between this and that, and other never gets a chance because the two parties pick this and that.

The realities of American politics are that as long as the people's choices are limited to those chosen by a power elite then power doesn't derive from the people and hasn't for a very, very long time.

At the local level that applies not so much - but at the national level...
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: ctdonath on November 11, 2008, 05:26:43 PM
Quote
tell me again when the electoral college votes?

Dec. 13, IIRC.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: gunsmith on November 11, 2008, 09:52:20 PM
Well, I had to produce a birth certificate to get a drivers license, it looks like BO's COLB would be good enough ... if we could get an impartial view that is.

The Clintons knew but kept silent for chaos sake!
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Harold Tuttle on November 12, 2008, 01:17:26 AM
so If they declare him ineligible before the Electoral college votes

Would they vote on Biden vs McCain?
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Azrael256 on November 12, 2008, 02:18:03 AM
Yup.  20th amendment:

Quote
If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.
So, Biden becomes president until somebody "qualifies" (whatever the hell that means).  Maybe we get a do-over of Hillary vs McCain later on, but Biden takes the oath in January.

I'm not sure how this is a good thing, since we get a moron in the white house AND Detroit, Chicago, LA, and part of New York burn to the ground...  but... uh... ok, not sure where I was going with that, but there's probably a downside I'm not seeing.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: freakazoid on November 12, 2008, 02:27:15 AM
It doesn't say how Congress would choose the new President elect if for some reason the current one and the Vice President elect weren't able to. It just says that they may by law choose the new one. What would they do? Could prove interesting.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 12, 2008, 02:46:48 AM
Given the wording of azrael's quote, it seems that Congress could "provide" that Obama's citizenship notwithstanding, they still declare him President.

Though... my money is on the more typical succession chain and good old Nancy Pelosi "volunteering" herself as selflessly as possible.

Of course, since Biden qualifies but Obama might not... Biden would serve as President.  The only way Obama could become president would be a rapid Constitutional Amendment within the 4 years to allow for non-natural born citizens to serve as President.

Good luck on that one.

I'm kinda hoping that this falls out.  It would make for delicious gridlock.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Jamisjockey on November 12, 2008, 08:11:09 AM

I'm kinda hoping that this falls out.  It would make for delicious gridlock.

And some fantastic riots in all the major cities.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: nate.45 on November 12, 2008, 08:39:36 AM
When I first heard of this months ago, I dismissed as highly implausible, now there seems to be some interesting new evidence coming to light. I still seriously doubt that anything will come of it, but how delicious would it be? I mean if it were proven that Obama was born in Kenya and denied the presidency, I don't know about the rest of you, but I would dance a victory jig. =D
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Harold Tuttle on November 12, 2008, 10:34:16 AM
He is not President until the electoral college votes him and his party into the executive office.

So wouldn't a December 1 invalidation, lead to the Electoral college reassessing their votes?
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 12, 2008, 10:41:05 AM
biden or obama? what kinda choice is that? i might chose obama
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: charby on November 12, 2008, 10:53:20 AM
biden or obama? what kinda choice is that? i might chose obama

Biden would be pure entertainment, he opens his mouth and his foot hits him in the back of the throat. He would make Dan Quayle look like a genius.



Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Lennyjoe on November 12, 2008, 03:05:26 PM
Maybe that's why Joe agreed to be the VP. Maybe he knows something we don't.(Yea, I have the tin foil hat on today)
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Ron on November 12, 2008, 05:00:10 PM
So being born to a US citizen doesn't confer citizenship to the child automatically? Regardless of where the child is born?
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: taurusowner on November 12, 2008, 05:02:31 PM
So being born to a US citizen doesn't infer citizenship to the child automatically? Regardless of where the child is born?

AFAIK, to simply be a regular person/citizen, yes.  To be eligible for the Office of the President, no.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Scout26 on November 12, 2008, 06:29:19 PM
So being born to a US citizen doesn't confer citizenship to the child automatically? Regardless of where the child is born?

Nope,

Also, the electoral college may chose McCain (or me, or Mike Irwin or the Flying Spaghetti Monster) as President, nothing says they have to pick whomever won the popular vote.  they have done so in the past.  (IIRC, John Anderson got one EC vote from Illinois, in the 1980 election.)
 
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: red headed stranger on November 13, 2008, 03:42:11 AM
AFAIK, to simply be a regular person/citizen, yes.  To be eligible for the Office of the President, no.

Actually,  it isn't quite clear.  US law provides for only two classes of citizenship:  1. At birth, 2. through naturalization.  There is a not a specific definition of the term "natural born citizen."  So, the argument goes, that if you did not have to go though the naturalization process, you are a citizen at birth and therefore natural born. 

This is a matter that needs some clarification that would be in line with the intent of the natural born citizen requirement.  Namely to ensure there are not undue foreign influence on the office. 
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: nate.45 on November 13, 2008, 05:07:01 AM
Obama Is Not A Natural Born U.S. Citizen And Is Therefore Ineligible For The Presidency / Documentary Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWTs1YyhFRg

Philip Berg presents a strong case and I can't for the life of me figure out why a man of his stature would go to these lengths unless there were something to it.

Perhaps Berg was doing all this at the behest of the Clintons and now that Obama is president elect it will all fade away, who knows its only a small hope, but better than no hope at all. =)
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: freakazoid on November 13, 2008, 12:17:17 PM
Quote
who knows its only a small hope, but better than no hope at all. smiley

Is it Hope we can believe in?  :lol:
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: nate.45 on November 14, 2008, 11:13:13 AM
Quote
Is it Hope we can believe in?

Most certainly, but only if you have the audacity to have it. :lol:
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: RaspberrySurprise on November 15, 2008, 03:16:55 AM
Nope,

Also, the electoral college may chose McCain (or me, or Mike Irwin or the Flying Spaghetti Monster) as President, nothing says they have to pick whomever won the popular vote.  they have done so in the past.  (IIRC, John Anderson got one EC vote from Illinois, in the 1980 election.)
 

Actually some states have laws specifying how the electors must vote.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Harold Tuttle on November 18, 2008, 10:21:52 PM
http://www.nbcaugusta.com/news/elections/presheadlines/34587804.html

Augusta Staff
Story Published: Nov 18, 2008 at 9:52 AM EST
Story Updated: Nov 18, 2008 at 8:16 PM EST
SACRAMENTO, Calif.- A former opponent of Barack Obama's has come back to haunt him over questions regarding Obama's citizenship.
According to a press release from the American Independent Party, former presidential candidate Alan Keyes and other members of the party have filed suit in California Superior Court in Sacramento to stop the state from giving its electoral votes to President-elect Barack Obama until documentary evidence is provided to prove Obama is indeed a natural born citizen of the United States.
Keyes also ran against Obama as a Republican for the U.S. Senate seat in Illinois in 2004. Obama won that election to serve his first and only term in the U.S. Senate.
The Obama campaign countered similar accusations early in 2008 by posting Obama's certification of live birth, and saying: "Barack Obama was born in the state of Hawaii in 1961, a native citizen of the United States of America."
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: De Selby on November 18, 2008, 10:28:32 PM
Alan Keyes isn't "haunting" Obama-he's creating buzz that will haunt opponents of Obama in 2012, when laughter at the ridiculous theories they peddled in 2008 will be used to discredit their opposition to Obama's re-election.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: gunsmith on November 19, 2008, 12:58:08 PM
"They posted" as in posted on the innernet.
That and two low level underlings in a blue state will not even get regular folks a passport!
Posting stuff on the interweb will not suffice imo.
Does B.O have a passport btw?
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 19, 2008, 02:36:20 PM

Does B.O have a passport btw?

He has an Indonesian one, that he used to travel to Pakistan.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Sam on November 22, 2008, 12:47:59 PM
Try getting a passport with a COLB sometime. :laugh:

Sam
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 22, 2008, 12:55:07 PM
Try getting a passport with a COLB sometime. :laugh:

Sam



heck my sister had a hard time with wake island on her birth certificate. the girl at the state dept had to check to see if she was a citizen :O
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: red headed stranger on November 22, 2008, 03:48:34 PM
Try getting a passport with a COLB sometime. :laugh:

Sam


I don't know why you think it would be a problem.  I had no trouble getting a passport with mine. And neither did my son. 
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: gunsmith on November 22, 2008, 08:35:45 PM
Well, try getting a passport with a COLB that can only be viewed online, telling the passport office that it can be vouched for by two health dept officials.
So they do not need to examine it in their own hands.

It should be noted that these two low level employees of a very blue state probably do not need any kind of background check for their job, a GED would suffice, heck, they may be relatives of Barry for all I know.

Two low level state employees have the power to keep proof of barry's citizenship status for themselves?
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: ronnyreagan on November 22, 2008, 09:26:30 PM
Yes, until Obama's actual original certificate is mailed in a wax sealed envelope, one at a time, to every citizen in the country for their personal verification, the inauguration must be put on hold. Otherwise how can we know for sure??? Just for security, maybe the certificate should be wrapped in tin foil and then sealed in the envelope. You never know what those sneaky liberal elites are going to pull over on us! For that matter how do we even know that he's human? Maybe they're trying to get a martian elected in attempt to enslave the entire human race. We need to see DNA tests too! I won't accept some paid stooge doctor (who could very well also be an alien) to just get on TV and say he's human. I won't believe it unless I administer the DNA tests myself. That's reasonable isn't it?
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 23, 2008, 12:43:04 AM
Yes, until Obama's actual original certificate is mailed in a wax sealed envelope, one at a time, to every citizen in the country for their personal verification, the inauguration must be put on hold. Otherwise how can we know for sure??? Just for security, maybe the certificate should be wrapped in tin foil and then sealed in the envelope. You never know what those sneaky liberal elites are going to pull over on us! For that matter how do we even know that he's human? Maybe they're trying to get a martian elected in attempt to enslave the entire human race. We need to see DNA tests too! I won't accept some paid stooge doctor (who could very well also be an alien) to just get on TV and say he's human. I won't believe it unless I administer the DNA tests myself. That's reasonable isn't it?

I'll be happy if the SCOTUS is affirmatively satisfied with his eligibility, thank you very much.

I'll be displeased if they side-step the issue based on "standing" or lack thereof, and leave it inconclusively in the air.  I want a solid "Yes, he's a friggin' citizen" spelled out in legalese.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: De Selby on November 23, 2008, 12:50:29 AM
Why isn't the birth certificate enough?  Obviously he can't forward the thing to every American who doubts him, but he posted it online and let third parties see it in person.

I have a feeling that a notarized letter from Jesus wouldn't satisfy some.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 23, 2008, 12:55:47 AM
Why isn't the birth certificate enough?  Obviously he can't forward the thing to every American who doubts him, but he posted it online and let third parties see it in person.

I have a feeling that a notarized letter from Jesus wouldn't satisfy some.

Because it's exactly the same thing as the Ron Paul supporters who wanted to try and persuade RNC delegates to switch from McCain to RP at the last minute and didn't listen to anybody who told them that's just not done any more.

People lost the real contest and are now hoping to invoke some obscure rule to help them win.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Blakenzy on November 23, 2008, 12:57:36 AM
 Barrack  :O HUSSEIN :O Obama is really a Kenyan Al-Qaeda operative, sneaked into the US in a cargo container at the age of 2 months, to later be raised and educated as an American Citizen, with the sole mission of obtaining the Presidency in his adulthood. He will then fulfill the Prophecy and become the slayer of the Great Western Devil: as POTUS he will have access to our nukes, which he will launch against our cities in an evil surprise attack from within...  of course he will do only that after he abducts all the white women and ships them overseas for Lord knows what...

:rolleyes:  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: longeyes on November 23, 2008, 11:57:01 AM
It's not "an obsure rule."

It's The Rule of Law.

Every day we seem to find new ways to do an end-run around law and responsibility.  Then we wonder why we are where we are.

If we lose the Rule of Law--and we are on the verge of that with so many governmental actions going rogue--we will end as a nation of fascist authoritarians and freelance outlaws.  Is that what we want?
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 23, 2008, 03:21:15 PM
Look. Realistically, Obama has been elected by a majority of the people. He has (unfortunately) the support of America's political elite and the endorsement of the media, who control public opinion. Do you think they're going to give up on their darling EVEN IF [which I doubt] people can cast doubt on his birth place?

Unfortunately, Obama's election is but a mere manifestation of how completely skewed the structure of American/Western society is. You can't turn this around by coming up with proof he's not been born in America, and I suspect he was.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 23, 2008, 04:29:24 PM
if he was born to a kenyan dad and mom was 17 the law then does not favor him
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: ShelleyB. on November 23, 2008, 06:33:50 PM
if he was born to a kenyan dad and mom was 17 the law then does not favor him

The "law" won't affect the outcome in this case.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 23, 2008, 06:35:51 PM
"The "law" won't affect the outcome in this case."

i believe that to be true sadly

wish i could say otherwise
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: longeyes on November 23, 2008, 07:47:30 PM
I'm as cynical as the next guy, but if The Law doesn't matter, what more is there to say?  If the political elites and the media can safely ignore the law, we have closed the bulkhead door behind us...
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: De Selby on November 23, 2008, 07:58:32 PM
I'm as cynical as the next guy, but if The Law doesn't matter, what more is there to say?  If the political elites and the media can safely ignore the law, we have closed the bulkhead door behind us...

The law does matter-the problem here is that there's no controversy to which it applies. 
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Fly320s on November 23, 2008, 08:53:09 PM
I agree that Obama will be president regardless of the law or his birth place.


Not to pick on Micro, but I would like to point out this quote from him:
Realistically, Obama has been elected by a majority of the people.
While true, majority rule is not how the election operates, as I'm sure you know.  Maybe it was a slip-of-the-tongue, or just a convienent idea, but I really dislike how the majority of the people refer to the US as a democracy. 

Now, back to your regularly scheduled thread.  =D
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 23, 2008, 09:35:33 PM
[quote  Maybe it was a slip-of-the-tongue, or just a convienent idea, but I really dislike how the majority of the people refer to the US as a democracy.
[/quote]

Yes, but the electors had not physically voted yet. Therefore it would be incorrect for me to say that he had been elected by the majority of the electors' vote.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: gunsmith on November 24, 2008, 03:14:37 AM
Why isn't the birth certificate enough?  Obviously he can't forward the thing to every American who doubts him, but he posted it online and let third parties see it in person.

I have a feeling that a notarized letter from Jesus wouldn't satisfy some.

Why are a few of you liberal types so keen on keeping his proof of citizenship away from scrutiny?
It isn't tin foil hat territory to want proof of American citizenry.
Quote
Why isn't the birth certificate enough
I guess you have not been paying attention, there is NO birth cert to look at.

2 State employees imho can not be trusted to this extent., I've worked for the city of SF ( a corrupt  liberal mess ) I'm sure Hawaii is worse.


I mean CRAP! he has RELATIVES that are illegal aliens!!!!

If you don't find that suspicious then you're just plain deep in the tank for B.O
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 24, 2008, 03:19:59 AM
Shootinstudent has a few outlandish beliefs, but a liberal he is not.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: red headed stranger on November 24, 2008, 06:43:07 AM

Quote
Why are a few of you liberal types so keen on keeping his proof of citizenship away from scrutiny?
It isn't tin foil hat territory to want proof of American citizenry.

First of all, people who might disagree with you are not necessarily liberals.  Some have looked at the "evidence" and have not been persuaded.  That is not being "in the tank." for anyone.  Besides, it's not as if some of the people pushing the "BHO secret muslim not really a US citizen" ideas don't have axes to grind. 

I'm all for scrutiny.  There certainly has been a lot of scrutiny that has come up with a lot of dead ends which get turned into innuendo.  All of this scrutiny does not change certain facts:  Obama has supplied an electronic copy of his Hawaiian birth certificate that meets the State Department requirements. There was a birth announcement in the Hawaiian papers that announced his birth.  At the time these were posted by the bureau of health statistics.  To my mind these two things are very persuasive.   

Quote
I mean CRAP! he has RELATIVES that are illegal aliens!!!!

This has nothing to do with his status.  The fact that he has relatives that are a half brother or half sister to his estranged father does not have a bearing on his status. 
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Fly320s on November 24, 2008, 07:59:14 AM
Yes, but the electors had not physically voted yet. Therefore it would be incorrect for me to say that he had been elected by the majority of the electors' vote.

Ah, well, if you want to be technically correct then there is no HopeChange for you. </sarcasm>  :laugh:
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: gunsmith on November 24, 2008, 01:12:00 PM
Quote
Obama has supplied an electronic copy of his Hawaiian birth certificate that meets the State Department requirements.
Requirements for what?    U.S Passport?   Security clearance?, That a Pres elect doesn't have a U.S passport is strange.
Quote
There was a birth announcement in the Hawaiian papers that announced his birth
This is the first time I've heard this.

Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: ShelleyB. on November 24, 2008, 03:39:39 PM
I'm as cynical as the next guy, but if The Law doesn't matter, what more is there to say?  If the political elites and the media can safely ignore the law, we have closed the bulkhead door behind us...

The political elite and media have safely ignored the law for years. It's a snowball that's finally gotten so large it blots out the sun. "Democratic elections" have been dead for a long time.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: ShelleyB. on November 24, 2008, 03:44:10 PM
Obama has supplied an electronic copy of his Hawaiian birth certificate that meets the State Department requirements. There was a birth announcement in the Hawaiian papers that announced his birth.  At the time these were posted by the bureau of health statistics. 

An electronic copy might be good enough for Pizza Hut, but this is the Presidency of the United States of America! I can't think of anywhere my electronic copy has been good enough. It's always been the original or certified copy. But then I'm a peon.

Yeah, what Hawaiian paper published the announcement? I suppose that was supplied electronically?


Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: gunsmith on November 24, 2008, 08:02:21 PM
55,000 petitioners to Obama - If you are eligible, show us the proof.

WEBWIRE – Monday, November 24, 2008
CONTACT INFORMATION
Judith Abarbanel
Marketing Director
WND Books
310-961-4170
marketing@wndbooks.com
Washington, DC (Nov. 24, 2008) -- Over 55,000 people have signed a petition coordinated by WND (WorldNetDaily) founder and editor Joseph Farah that demands documentation of President-elect Barack Obama’s eligibility to hold the highest office in the U.S., not just assurances from party officials.

A report accompanying the petition posted on WND.com, the Internet’s leading independent news source, explains the many questions raised about Obama’s eligibility, from an apparently fabricated "Certification of Live Birth" posted online to questions about what nation’s passport he used during to travel to Pakistan.

Obama is still refusing to disclose to the American public something as innocent and as basic as his full, undoctored birth certificate to establish beyond any shadow of a doubt – a doubt that is growing daily – that he is a natural-born American citizen.

"Ironically, now that the election is over, the pressure is building" notes Farah. "A few bold members of Congress are getting interested in demanding hearings on the birth certificate issue. The lawsuits are increasing. More pundits and activists are beginning to mobilize regarding this critical Constitutional issue"

The petition, which is directed to the Electoral College, the FEC, Congress and the U.S. Supreme Court, can be viewed at www.wnd.com. Posted last Friday, it has already been signed by over 55,000 people. It reads as follows:

"Whereas, by requirement of the United States Constitution, Article 2, Section 1, no one can be sworn into office as president of the United States without being a natural born citizen;

"Whereas, there is sufficient controversy within the citizenry of the United States as to whether presidential election winner Barack Obama was actually born in Hawaii as he claims;

"Whereas, Barack Obama has refused repeated calls to release publicly his entire Hawaiian birth certificate, which would include the actual hospital that performed the delivery;

"Whereas, lawsuits filed in several states seeking only proof of the basic minimal standard of eligibility have been rebuffed;

"Whereas, Hawaii at the time of Obama’s birth allowed births that took place in foreign countries to be registered in Hawaii;

"Whereas, concerns that our government is not taking this constitutional question seriously will result in diminished confidence in our system of free and fair elections;

"We, the undersigned, assert our rights as citizens of the United States in demanding that the constitutional eligibility requirement be taken seriously and that any and all controlling legal authorities in this matter examine the complete birth certificate of Barack Obama, including the actual city and hospital of birth, and make that document available to the American people for inspection"

To join the thousands who have already signed the petition, visit WorldNetDaily at www.wnd.com.

About WND:
WND.com is the Internet’s leading independent news source.

To interview Joseph Farah:
Contact Judy at marketing@wndbooks.com, (310) 961-4170.

##
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: De Selby on November 24, 2008, 10:26:50 PM
An electronic copy might be good enough for Pizza Hut, but this is the Presidency of the United States of America! I can't think of anywhere my electronic copy has been good enough. It's always been the original or certified copy. But then I'm a peon.

Yeah, what Hawaiian paper published the announcement? I suppose that was supplied electronically?




Okay, so is he supposed to order 290 million certified copies and send them to every American, or does the fact that he made the one original that he has supplied available to the media for inspection count as well enough?
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: red headed stranger on November 25, 2008, 12:14:31 AM
Quote
Requirements for what?    U.S Passport?   Security clearance?, That a Pres elect doesn't have a U.S passport is strange.

Yes to both.  This COLB has just as much information on it as John McCain's "official" birth certificate. It is certified to be accurate by the appropriate state officials.  Additionally, I find it extremely difficult that he made it this far in his political life (especially as a Senator on the Foreign Relations committee) without being vetted on this issue.

Who says he doesn't have a passport?  That would be very odd considering there was a big dustup earlier this year about State Department contractors accessing Obama's, McCain's, And Hillary Clinton's Passport Records

Quote
This is the first time I've heard this.

Oh then it must not be true!!!  :rolleyes:

This has been all over the internet since July.  I guess your reasoning has fallen victim to a serious dose of selection bias. The Ironic thing is that the announcements were found by a PUMA who was looking to discredit Obama in her documentary.  She has since moved on to the convoluted rathole of trying to prove that he renounced his citizenship in Indonesia. Maybe you should start looking for information that supports that theory. You could find some common ground with some Hillary supporters.   =D

Quote
Yeah, what Hawaiian paper published the announcement? I suppose that was supplied electronically?

Papers:
The Honolulu Advertiser   
The Star Bulletin

Give them a call.  At the time, both papers printed information from obtained from the health department, not from relatives. 

The information has been found in the local libraries on Microfiche. But I guess those were probably forged too.   ;/
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: gunsmith on November 25, 2008, 04:59:23 AM
Yes to both.  This COLB has just as much information on it as John McCain's "official" birth certificate. It is certified to be accurate by the appropriate state officials.  Additionally, I find it extremely difficult that he made it this far in his political life (especially as a Senator on the Foreign Relations committee) without being vetted on this issue.

Who says he doesn't have a passport?  That would be very odd considering there was a big dustup earlier this year about State Department contractors accessing Obama's, McCain's, And Hillary Clinton's Passport Records

Oh then it must not be true!!!  :rolleyes:

This has been all over the internet since July.  I guess your reasoning has fallen victim to a serious dose of selection bias. The Ironic thing is that the announcements were found by a PUMA who was looking to discredit Obama in her documentary.  She has since moved on to the convoluted rathole of trying to prove that he renounced his citizenship in Indonesia. Maybe you should start looking for information that supports that theory. You could find some common ground with some Hillary supporters.   =D

Papers:
The Honolulu Advertiser   
The Star Bulletin

Give them a call.  At the time, both papers printed information from obtained from the health department, not from relatives. 

The information has been found in the local libraries on Microfiche. But I guess those were probably forged too.   ;/

hey all I said I hadn't heard that, didn't say it was true or not.

I have heard it was common in the sixties to bring your infant in and claim he was born here.

If it is so dang obvious, why is SCOTUS getting involved?

I think extra scrutiny is warranted due to his Aunts status.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: ctdonath on November 25, 2008, 09:39:55 AM
Quote
Why isn't the birth certificate enough?

It is. When he shows it, we'll be satisfied.

What he has shown is not a birth certificate, and is inadequate for reasons which have been widely discussed.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Werewolf on November 25, 2008, 10:58:23 AM
Okay, so is he supposed to order 290 million certified copies and send them to every American, or does the fact that he made the one original that he has supplied available to the media for inspection count as well enough?

I'm sorry but that's the most inane thing you've ever suggested. And since when is the media a recognized authority with the legal power to certify one as eligible to be the president of the USA? Like I said: INANE...   ;/

What he is supposed to do is supply a certified copy or better yet his verifiable original birth certificate to the appropriate authority for verification of his eligibility to be president of the United States.

If he's legal WHAT THE HELL IS THE PROBLEM?

What's the big deal. Hand over the proof to whom ever needs it - probably the supremes in this case.

If your every day American can produce one for the DMV to get a driver license it really shouldn't be all that big of a deal for the annointed one to hand over his to the proper authorities.

OH  :O WAIT! We can't do that. Even suggesting such a thing makes one a racist.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 25, 2008, 11:35:14 AM
WND petition is now at almost 77K.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: ronnyreagan on November 25, 2008, 11:45:47 AM
Even suggesting such a thing makes one a racist.  :rolleyes:

Well, I wouldn't call it racist, but I can certainly see the parallels. The people who insist that just one more piece of evidence will satisfy them are always going to find another flaw (I mean can we REALLY trust the supreme justices???) They seem irrationally adamant that they are correct without any evidence to support their position all the while dismissing any evidence they are wrong. The conspiracy over John McCain being born out of the country was just as stupid, yet some people ignored that and latched right on to this. It probably isn't racism that's driving it, but that would be a good explanation for why people are so irrationally obsessed with this conspiracy. My guess is that it's an acute case of Obama Derangement Syndrome.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: ctdonath on November 25, 2008, 04:18:19 PM
McCain showed his paperwork, the issue was addressed, and he was deemed suitably qualified. He didn't stonewall.

Obama hasn't shown his paperwork (save just one legitimately questionable voucher), is stifling anyone addressing the issue, and there is enough circumstantial evidence for a reasonable person to ask a reasonable question re: qualification. He's stonewalling.

Funny how the solution is simply hand over one sheet of paper to a judge, and the whole thing goes away - yet it's those asking for that paper that are beeing accused of Obama Derangement Syndrome. ...unless he's not qualified, in which case the whole shouting match is justified. Occam's Razor.

No evidence of qualification has been shown, so don't go flinging charges of racism or derangement or irrationality.
One piece of paper is enough - even if irrelevant (embarassing?) material thereon is redacted. Show it or shut it.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: charby on November 25, 2008, 04:30:20 PM
I've gotten a couple emails today from various GOP type groups talking about the birth certificate and please send some money for the fight.

Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: charby on November 25, 2008, 04:38:50 PM
http://www.politifact.com/media/img/graphics/birthCertObama.jpg
Birth Certificate
(http://www.politifact.com/media/img/graphics/birthCertObama.jpg)

http://www.politifact.com/media/files/obamamarriage.jpg
Marriage license
(http://www.politifact.com/media/files/obamamarriage.jpg)

Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 25, 2008, 04:43:49 PM
could all the stonewalling be about his mothers marital status vis a vis dad? or the absence thereof?
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: De Selby on November 25, 2008, 07:03:00 PM

What he is supposed to do is supply a certified copy or better yet his verifiable original birth certificate to the appropriate authority for verification of his eligibility to be president of the United States.


Two questions here:

1.  Who did John McCain show his papers to?

2.  Who is the "appropriate authority for verification"?  Last I checked, there is no such language in the Constitution. 

Obama showed his birth certificate to third parties, then posted it online so the entire country could see.  To say that he hasn't shown it is simply laughable-it's just that you don't want to accept that Obama actually did show his birth certificate and post it online.

How does producing the original birth certificate for inspection, then posting it online for everyone to see, constitute "stonewalling"?

Like I said, it appears that the demand is for 290 million certified copies to be ordered and sent out so everyone can be happy.  But of course, then we'll just see claims that the State of HI is in on the conspiracy, along with the Supreme Court.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 26, 2008, 12:15:56 AM
SS:

Look at the green birth certificate above.

Look at the text... Honolulu, Oahu, Honolulu.

Do you see ANY green dashes or hashes through the hollow parts of the O's?

I don't.  That green paper is a stock paper supposedly fed through a laser printer to generate this document.  Those green dashes/hashes are already on it prior to printing, and text should lay on top of it.

And what about all the weird pixelation around "Child's Name:  Barack Hussein Obama II" ?

And seriously... if we have his name and birthdate and mother's maiden name... What's the friggin' big deal with leaving the thing alone regarding the Certificate Number in the upper right?  That counts as an alteration, which voids the validity of the document as stated on the bottom of it.  Let's see the original hardcopy filed by the clerk on August 8th, and let's see the Birth Certificate from the doctor.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: De Selby on November 26, 2008, 12:20:33 AM
AZRedhawk,

Are you being sarcastic? I honestly cannot tell if you are, because if you were serious, that would mean sending certified copies to millions of people and then doing a big hand-me-along with the original from the 60's?

Does the fact that the HI .gov has verified that this is in fact a valid birth certificate count?

How about all the media folks that he invited to see the paper first hand?


Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: gunsmith on November 26, 2008, 12:31:36 AM
gee whiz shootinstudent, COLB COLB COLB it aint a birth certificate
Quote
. Q Who is the "appropriate authority for verification"?  Last I checked, there is no such language in the Constitution.
Ascotus is good enough 4 me.
Quote
QWho did John McCain show his papers to?
A the vietcong

why block the cert number? Is someone going to steal the pres elects identity?

I hope we can use this issue as a wedge, it would be great to deport that arrogant gun grabber.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: De Selby on November 26, 2008, 12:35:20 AM
gee whiz shootinstudent, COLB COLB COLB it aint a birth certificate Ascotus is good enough 4 me.A .

Okay, what will the posted certificate not do, that a "birth certificate" will?

And do we have to radio-carbon date the original, to prove it was from 1961?  Or will you just accept that the original is original because it has 1961 written on it?

This issue is not a wedge-it's a huge boost for Obama, because it makes his opponents look like a gaggle of conspiracy theorists.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: red headed stranger on November 26, 2008, 07:59:28 AM
could all the stonewalling be about his mothers marital status vis a vis dad? or the absence thereof?

I personally suspect that this may be the case. 
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: ShelleyB. on November 26, 2008, 08:56:57 AM
SS:

Look at the green birth certificate above.

Look at the text... Honolulu, Oahu, Honolulu.

Do you see ANY green dashes or hashes through the hollow parts of the O's?

I don't.  That green paper is a stock paper supposedly fed through a laser printer to generate this document.  Those green dashes/hashes are already on it prior to printing, and text should lay on top of it.

And what about all the weird pixelation around "Child's Name:  Barack Hussein Obama II" ?

And seriously... if we have his name and birthdate and mother's maiden name... What's the friggin' big deal with leaving the thing alone regarding the Certificate Number in the upper right?  That counts as an alteration, which voids the validity of the document as stated on the bottom of it.  Let's see the original hardcopy filed by the clerk on August 8th, and let's see the Birth Certificate from the doctor.

Exactly. The electronic version being widely disbursed is NOT an original. As pointed out above, why is the certificate number blocked out?

I suspect because the number would have to be chronologically correct for the alleged birth date AND possibly tie into other records which would have recorded that certificate number, necessitating more than one fake document and tampering with existing actual records.

In this day and age, with Photoshop and forgers, it's way too easy to produce a false document.

Asking why Obama or his disciples weren't straightforward initially is assuming he IS a legal citizen. His actions belie that belief.

Or as we say here, that dog don't hunt.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: ronnyreagan on November 26, 2008, 09:08:20 AM
And the cycle repeats itself. Evidence is provided, and it is immediately claimed to be part of the conspiracy. Providing further evidence will always meet the same result.

Ask yourself if it would make you happy to discover Obama is not eligible to be president. Now do you think that maybe you're so upset about his election that you're being a little bit irrational? That maybe you're dismissing all the evidence that you're wrong because if you're right it would mean that the big bad evil liberal socialist Obama won't take office? Maybe this is your way of dealing with a resounding defeat at the polls?
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: BrokenPaw on November 26, 2008, 09:44:32 AM
Look at the text... Honolulu, Oahu, Honolulu.
Do you see ANY green dashes or hashes through the hollow parts of the O's?

AZ,

Leaving aside for the moment the debate about Obama'a legitimacy, the artifacts that you're seeing in the image of the COLB are likely from the fact that it's a JPEG image, not necessarily because of anything more nefarious than that.

If you look closely at all of the text, you'll see that it all has a sort of muddy 'halo' around it.  This is a consequence of the JPEG compression, and is present in pretty much any .jpg file that has high-contrast text in it. 

Not saying that this legitimizes the COLB presented, just saying that the artifacts you pointed out don't necessarily mean anything.

-BP
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 26, 2008, 11:03:14 AM
AZ,

Leaving aside for the moment the debate about Obama'a legitimacy, the artifacts that you're seeing in the image of the COLB are likely from the fact that it's a JPEG image, not necessarily because of anything more nefarious than that.

If you look closely at all of the text, you'll see that it all has a sort of muddy 'halo' around it.  This is a consequence of the JPEG compression, and is present in pretty much any .jpg file that has high-contrast text in it. 

Not saying that this legitimizes the COLB presented, just saying that the artifacts you pointed out don't necessarily mean anything.

-BP

The only time I've ever seen artifacts like that are when doing copy and paste or text insertion operations onto a png/jpeg type file.  You'll notice the other document (marriage certificate), while being larger, has extremely clear and crisp text and all watermarks can be seen through the hollows of the letters in the document.

I don't doubt that the Obamas are married. :laugh:

I just don't believe in that particular COLB's validity.  I don't need 290 million copies though... One good original birth certificate for the SCOTUS will do just fine.

Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: MechAg94 on November 26, 2008, 11:43:57 AM
Personally, I agree with others that his election is likely legitimate, but he is concealing something else that he didn't want made public.  Have his college records been made public yet?
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: gunsmith on November 26, 2008, 12:57:59 PM
Quote
Ask yourself if it would make you happy to discover Obama is not eligible to be president

Happy doesn't really describe it, more like ecstatic.

When this issue came to my attention I dismissed it, but the B.C and College papers and I remember all the scrutiny G.W got.
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Iain on November 26, 2008, 01:06:18 PM
I went on holiday with a friend recently. Seems he has aspirations to be a politician, and is very conscious of where records of him may exist - he's not on facebook for instance.

He got very upset when I left a comment in a guestbook that might be construed as meaning that he (full name not used) is a whoopsie. Now I know why.

All the tedious political types I have ever known are apparently fully aware that there are equally tedious potential political enemies who want to see every original till receipt from the date of their conception. Scans not acceptable because we've all seen the pixels.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: ShelleyB. on November 26, 2008, 01:08:14 PM
Personally, I agree with others that his election is likely legitimate,

Including all the ACORN registered voters?
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Harold Tuttle on November 26, 2008, 01:28:43 PM
the above is a very recent reissue based on data in the system

We need to see something from 1961

Otherwise we are clearing the way for the Arnold Schwarzenegger for President Jihad
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: ArfinGreebly on November 26, 2008, 06:24:47 PM
Schwarzenegger Library?  Ah, yes, the 61st Amendment.

Quote
Lenina Huxley:  I have, in fact, perused some newsreels in the Schwarzenegger Library, and the time that you took that car...
JohnSpartan:  Hold it.  The Schwarzenegger Library?
Lenina Huxley:  Yes.  The Schwarzenegger Presidential Library.  Wasn't he an actor when you...?
JohnSpartan:  Stop!  He was President?
Lenina Huxley:  Yes!  Even though he was not born in this country, his popularity at the time caused the 61st Amendment which states...
JohnSpartan:  I don't wanna know.  President...

Life imitating art.

Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Tallpine on November 26, 2008, 07:04:22 PM
The thing that bothers me the most about Obama's "birth certificate" is the date.  =(

Since when did we let these young whippersnappers be President ?  :O

A President ought to be older than me.  :laugh:
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: bscl on November 26, 2008, 07:17:51 PM
the above is a very recent reissue based on data in the system

We need to see something from 1961

Otherwise we are clearing the way for the Arnold Schwarzenegger for President Jihad

The stationary on which that was printed looks exactly like the one they used for my son's - and he was born two years ago.  My HI birth cert (from the 70's) is almost as small as a business card. 
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: red headed stranger on November 26, 2008, 07:50:14 PM
Quote
If it is so dang obvious, why is SCOTUS getting involved?

I would also like to point out that just because the SCOTUS is involved doesn't mean that Berg had a particularly valid claim.  The appeal was brought to them.   That, in and of itself, does not indicate the veracity of Bergs claims.  There is a response expected from Obama and the DNC because that is simply the proper procedure when a writ is brought to the court. 

I am not surprised that Berg's case was thrown out. Many elements of his complaint assumed facts not in evidence or referenced in any way.  Standing is the least of his problems.  His complaint read more like grandstanding that an actual serious motion.  He has some serious issues on the merits. 
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: bscl on November 26, 2008, 09:50:16 PM
You notice the faint backwards numbers near the bottom of the COLB?  That's the date the document was notarized - the stamp is on the back of the cert - looks like 2007.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: De Selby on November 26, 2008, 09:58:53 PM
The Supreme Court is not involved in this dispute for any substantive purpose that the public knows of.  That part of this whole story is rumor. 


Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: Modifiedbrowning on November 27, 2008, 01:25:02 AM
Maybe this is your way of dealing with a resounding defeat at the polls?
53% to 47% is resounding? New to me.

Anyway, here is a link to an examination of BHO's COLB.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2136816/posts (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2136816/posts)
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: gunsmith on November 27, 2008, 03:21:39 AM
the health dept claims to have the long form original birth cert.
whats the big dealio?
why won't they release it?
what are they hiding?  were his horns removed after his birth? did he have a tail?
WHAT?!
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: ShelleyB. on November 27, 2008, 06:59:07 AM
the health dept claims to have the long form original birth cert.
whats the big dealio?
why won't they release it?
what are they hiding?  were his horns removed after his birth? did he have a tail?
WHAT?!

BINGO - Why won't they release it? This is the original document that should have been released immediately and without question.

O & his team have gone to the moon and back to avoid taking the obvious action. That screams fraud.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: red headed stranger on November 27, 2008, 07:30:00 AM
Quote
why won't they release it?

In case you hadn't noticed, Hawaiian law sates that it can only be released to the person listed as the child or a member of his/her family.  The McCain supporting Republican governor has directed the Department of health to treat his personal information just like any other person. 

Quote
Anyway, here is a link to an examination of BHO's COLB.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2136816/posts

That is awfully full of bare assertions and conjecture. 

Quote
O & his team have gone to the moon and back to avoid taking the obvious action. That screams fraud.

They haven't really had to go our of their way.  They have simply not bowed to every ranting conspiracy theorist.  At some point I would have drawn a line too. You have to stop feeding the beast.  No matter what, there will be more people who will find something "fishy" no matter what. The PUMAs generally conceded that he must have been born in Hawaii, based on the COLB and the newspaper birth announcements, but they just moved onto more delirious conjecture.

They have provided a legally admissible document.  This is EXTREMELY persuasive. 

At first I had hoped there would have been a way to "get him" on this issue, but my examination of Berg's and others  claims show that they are mostly unfounded and muddied up with with half-truths, innuendo, and willful ignorance of the law on some matters. 

It is obvious that there is more that "truth seeking" and "respecting the rule of law"  for a number of these people.

Case in point:

Quote
I remember all the scrutiny G.W got.
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander

Quote
Including all the ACORN registered voters?

Quote
I hope we can use this issue as a wedge, it would be great to deport that arrogant gun grabber.


It would be nice if the amount of energy put into Obama conspiracy theories could be spent on furthering the causes of liberty and fiscal conservatism. 
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: gunsmith on November 27, 2008, 02:45:10 PM
Quote
Hawaiian law sates that it can only be released to the person listed as the child or a member of his/her famil

Really! wow thats a relief! ;/ Maybe B.O can have his original long form birth certificate released!
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: red headed stranger on November 27, 2008, 07:19:00 PM
Really! wow thats a relief! ;/ Maybe B.O can have his original long form birth certificate released!

I was simply answering your "question" concerning why the health department didn't release the long form vault cert. 
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: De Selby on November 27, 2008, 07:38:44 PM
Really! wow thats a relief! ;/ Maybe B.O can have his original long form birth certificate released!

Yeah, what for?  That's what the COLB is for-if they can fake that, they can fake the long form, because the issuing authority would have to be in on the plot.

That's why there's no further action necessary: it's obvious that the "Obama truthers" will never be satisfied.

Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: gunsmith on November 28, 2008, 12:48:38 AM
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it's obvious that the "Obama truthers" will never be satisfied

Oh I will be very satisfied, if Mr Obama gets deported, maybe he will get to stay being that he is married to a real American citizen.

Or maybe it will be reported that he had a tail or horns and thats why the original long form BC wasn't released...Childhoods End....
HeH, I had a Discussion with my friends family members over turkey day food, the Obama guy started cursing right in the middle of a very reasonable non confrontational talk.
LOL, it is going to be very interesting times indeed.
Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: KD5NRH on November 28, 2008, 07:21:22 AM
Yeah, what for?  That's what the COLB is for-if they can fake that, they can fake the long form, because the issuing authority would have to be in on the plot.

Not as easily; there are a lot of other documents that would have to be faked if any of the people who would have signed the long form aren't easily accounted for.  Put down a doctor or nurse who didn't exist, or didn't work at the claimed hospital and someone will notice.  Hospital records would also need to be altered in case the court gets suspicious.  The short form conveniently avoids that by not listing the hospital or any names other than the child and parents.

Title: Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
Post by: K Frame on November 28, 2008, 01:32:09 PM
"Oh I will be very satisfied, if Mr Obama gets deported, maybe he will get to stay being that he is married to a real American citizen."

Right there is the crux of the problem.

That statement signals definitively that no documentation of any kind, affidavit, COLB, sworn testimony by nurses or doctors who delivered Obama, etc., will EVER suffice to prove beyond a shadow of your conspiracy riddled doubts that Obama is actually a natural born citizen.

You, and far too many others, will accept only one outcome, and will accept absolutely nothing that would cause you to deviate for even a second from that outcome.


That is the height of conspiracy theory mania, and it's the lowest depth to which this thread will descend.