Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Fly320s on February 24, 2010, 08:15:43 AM
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That's right, One Billion Dollars for the new London embassy.
I guess that stimulus money is working... for London.
Clicky the linky for the photo.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/02/23/unveils-billion-high-security-embassy-london/?test=latestnews
U.S. Unveils Most Expensive Embassy in London
Times of London
The State Department sought to play down the cost of security measures, noting the expense of London building work. But the price puts the London embassy above the U.S.'s most fortified missions.
The United States unveiled plans Tuesday for its new $1 billion high-security embassy in London — the most expensive it has ever built.
The proposals were met with relief from both the present embassy's Mayfair neighbors and the residents and developers of the Battersea wasteland where the vast crystalline cube, surrounded by a moat, will be built.
The decision to abandon the former site in Grosvenor Square by 2016 came after a prolonged battle with residents angered by the security measures demanded after the September 11 attacks. More than a hundred residents took out a full-page advertisement in The Times of London to oppose tighter measures that they said would leave the area more vulnerable to attack.
The new embassy, on a former industrial site behind Battersea power station known for its gay clubs, will be designed by Kieran Timberlake, the Philadelphia architect.
A moat 100-foot -wide and rolling parkland will separate the building from the main road, protecting it from would-be bombers and removing the need for the blast barriers that so dismayed the people of Mayfair.
The State Department sought to play down the cost of security measures, noting the expense of London building work. But the price puts the London embassy above the U.S.'s most fortified missions, including the Baghdad embassy, which cost $600 million but required a further $100 million of work on air conditioning, and the Islamabad embassy, still under construction, which has cost more than $850 million.
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A moat? Seriously?
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A moat? Seriously?
Actually, a moat makes alot of sense from a security standpoint, kind of hard to drive a truck bomb through it. However, this proves how out of touch government is.
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A moat? Seriously?
A moat is only as good as the critters that live in the moat...Crocs, gators, moat monsters....
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To paraphrase the GEICO caveman: "Uh, WHAT?"
(Edited for a sleep-deprivation induced usage goof).
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A billion dollars could do a lot of good domestically.
Lets see um, fix bridges, fix roads, etc.
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A billion dollars could do a lot of good domestically.
Lets see um, fix bridges, fix roads, etc.
Hell, you could give 20,000 people $50,000.00 each. You could loan 20,000 small businesses up to $50,000 each and get the economy going. Charge a nominal interest rate and make some damn money for once, instead of just spending.
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I smell bovine excrement.
The State Department sought to play down the cost of security measures, noting the expense of London building work. But the price puts the London embassy above the U.S.'s most fortified missions, including the Baghdad embassy, which cost $600 million but required a further $100 million of work on air conditioning, and the Islamabad embassy, still under construction, which has cost more than $850 million.
Yeah, right. ;/
I'm sure the embassy is a good size, probably around 50,000 square feet.
I could see an AC installation bill of several hundred thousand dollars. Heck, maybe even a couple million when you consider all the cool nuke/bio/chem filtration systems they'd want. There's probably a sizeable basement already there or going to be dug out for a nuke shelter safe room.
But, $100 million?
Also, $1 billion dollars for the whole thing is way out of line. That's the same cost as a state of the art NFL football stadium.
ETA: I think some of this is going to a state department slush fund for CIA operations, and this is how they are getting it off the books and into operational hands.
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Embassy co-located with plethora of gay bars.* Check!
Embassy glows all night long. Check!
Moat - as previously discussed. Riiiiight - it's jolly old England, don'tchaknow. Check!
Construction contract let on low-bid basis to comply with US law. This could be better than the Moscow embassy the Ruskies bugged during construction (guess who was doing all the construction). Check!
The absolute amount of sheer genius that went into this project unfortunately does not surprise me in the least. How sad it is to say that.
stay safe.
skidmark
* - not gay-bashing, just suggesting that the folks who looked at "location, location, location" might have considered that a bit more before settling on the site. Go read any spy novels from the 1950s through the 1980s to see what was considered the biggest threat to national security - an embassy employee who could be blackmailed.
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* - not gay-bashing, just suggesting that the folks who looked at "location, location, location" might have considered that a bit more before settling on the site. Go read any spy novels from the 1950s through the 1980s to see what was considered the biggest threat to national security - an embassy employee who could be blackmailed.
That's no longer the case with gays, though. The UK at the time did not accept gays into the MI-6 because they could be blackmailed (given the public opinion of gays at the time). Today, they had changed that, because they judged that the stigma of gay behaviors has abated enough that a gay person is no more likely to be blackmailed in England than a straight person.
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Not to worry, it's a jobs program for "recent immigrants" to the U.K. The obstreperous ones. The chavs.
And it's also a prelude to the construction of a moat around Washington, D.C. to keep out the noisy serfs.
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It is worth pointing out some things:
i) the old (Grovesnor Square) embassy was actually sold for rather more than $1 billion, so this is something of a downgrade;
ii) London property prices are stupid, especially that close in to the centre;
iii) the new site is very close (five and fifteen minutes walk respectively) to both MI6 and MI5;
iv) the "plethora" of gay bars in Vauxhall is in fact about two or three, as always there are far more straight pubs in the area;
v) none of the other buildings in that photo actually exist yet - if you do a google map search for "Ponton Road, SW8" you will see the area where the embassy will be
vi) it is in a very odd place for an embassy
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article7038550.ece
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It is worth pointing out some things:
i) the old (Grovesnor Square) embassy was actually sold for rather more than $1 billion, so this is something of a downgrade;
Well, that's good then.
vi) it is in a very odd place for an embassy
Surprisingly, there are Embassies scattered all over DC.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article7038550.ece
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Wouldn't moving into Buckingham Palace be cheaper?
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It also does not include the 17.5 per cent VAT demanded by the Treasury on all buildings in Britain and which the US has refused to pay
Uh, because it's US soil as soon as we buy it? If you don't like it, don't allow a US embassy and recall your own. :mad:
We fought more than one war against the UK over taxes. I'd happily support sending much more than the VAT on fighting the HMRC. The notion of the US paying taxes to the British government on our embassy does not make me happy, nor do I believe it is legal.
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True. And anyway, 17.5%??? Are they insane?
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v) none of the other buildings in that photo actually exist yet - if you do a google map search for "Ponton Road, SW8" you will see the area where the embassy will be
vi) it is in a very odd place for an embassy
Looks like an odd area indeed - Google's "Street View" along the river nearby shows (for example) a Rolls dealer, a Fedex terminal, and what appear to be factories or warehouses . . .
The planned high-rises surrounding the proposed embassy ought to reduce the chances of a successful Kamikazi attack . . . but I wonder about all that glass on the exterior; perhaps it's actually thick slabs of polycarbonate?
And anyway, 17.5%??? Are they insane?
Maybe. They say breeding tells . . . but then, so does inbreeding. (On the other hand . . . look who WE elected . . . =( )
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Uh, because it's US soil as soon as we buy it? If you don't like it, don't allow a US embassy and recall your own. :mad:
We fought more than one war against the UK over taxes. I'd happily support sending much more than the VAT on fighting the HMRC. The notion of the US paying taxes to the British government on our embassy does not make me happy, nor do I believe it is legal.
A righteous +1 to that.
The US will NEVER pay a tax to Great Britain. If this becomes a real issue, I'll be writing letters. Probably pimping the issue with Appleseeds, too. It is certainly topical to that audience. Right now it just sounds like it is anecdotal to the story and pretty much a non-issue.
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I suppose it will have a dungeon, too...? =|
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Surprisingly, there are Embassies scattered all over DC.
Thats DC though - London's embassies are clustered together, and - as HankB has said - its not as if there is anything else nearby, aside from New Covent Garden Market, a couple of supermarkets and some light industry.
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I'm pretty sure I heard something closer $1.4B for the Baghdad embassy. But that may have been for the entire complex and not just the embassy building itself. We got royally hosed on that job. It's friggin ugly to begin with and aside from the AC work there is a ton of other stuff they're working on. But the biggest thing that threw me for a loop is the set of high-rise apartment buildings right across the street, out of the IZ. Supposedly, the tenants in the buildings are thoroughly vetted but we know how that works out most times. I figure it's only a matter of time until somebody starts taking shots from over there.
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True. And anyway, 17.5%??? Are they insane?
No, progressive!
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No, progressive!
You say po-tay-to, I say po-tah-to....
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I started thinking about the AC again.
$100 million for air conditioning.
In the UK.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London?redirect=no#Climate
Average summer high temps are 72* F in July and 71* F in August.
$100 million in AC? I understand there will probably be considerable computing power and perhaps $50k worth of HVAC work to have a high-redundancy installation for that...
But $100 million? For air conditioning... in London?
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I started thinking about the AC again.
$100 million for air conditioning.
In the UK.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London?redirect=no#Climate
Average summer high temps are 72* F in July and 71* F in August.
$100 million in AC? I understand there will probably be considerable computing power and perhaps $50k worth of HVAC work to have a high-redundancy installation for that...
But $100 million? For air conditioning... in London?
I think the $100 million for AC is for the Baghdad embassy.
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I think the $100 million for AC is for the Baghdad embassy.
You're right, my bad. I'm gud at wreeding. :facepalm:
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fstatic%2Fmanaged%2Fimg%2FPolitics%2Fusukembassy_doomsday_604x341.jpg&hash=6c959f60ddb65ea514d71b19fad4cadc42cb7c61)
Derek Zoolander: What is this? A center for ants? How can they be expected to ambassadorize ... if they can't even fit inside the building?
Mugatu: Derek, this is just a small...
Derek Zoolander: I don't wanna hear your excuses! The building has to be at least... three times bigger than this!
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For a $100 mil, that A/C better be able to handle NBC events.... :O
Also, the moat for the London one better have either sharpened stakes or crocodiles. Otherwise, it's not a moat, it's a ditch. :lol:
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For a $100 mil, that A/C better be able to handle NBC events.... :O
Also, the moat for the London one better have either sharpened stakes or crocodiles. Otherwise, it's not a moat, it's a ditch. :lol:
I want to bid on the "Heads on pikes" contract.
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For a $100 mil, that A/C better be able to handle NBC events.... :O
For $100 Mil it ought to be able to handle Armegeddon.
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For $100 Mil it ought to be able to handle Armegeddon.
:lol:
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Ill tempered sea bass.
Also, poor London. That cube is just damn ugly. London has such class as an old city, we're going to build that?
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Ill tempered sea bass.
Also, poor London. That cube is just damn ugly. London has such class as an old city, we're going to build that?
Welcome to the U.S. Embassy Casino and Slots!
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Welcome to the U.S. Embassy Casino and Slots!
No, US Embassy Suites
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I love the design. Euro-buro-late dystopian. All glass and no transparency.
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I kinda like the design. Reminds me of a porcupine.
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I kinda like the design. Reminds me of a porcupine.
Reminds me of a building under restoration, lots of scaffolding covered in plastic.
I think we should build a medieval castle like structure, show that we kicked your ass twice and saved your ass twice. :)
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fstatic%2Fmanaged%2Fimg%2FPolitics%2Fusukembassy_doomsday_604x341.jpg&hash=6c959f60ddb65ea514d71b19fad4cadc42cb7c61)
Derek Zoolander: What is this? A center for ants? How can they be expected to ambassadorize ... if they can't even fit inside the building?
Mugatu: Derek, this is just a small...
Derek Zoolander: I don't wanna hear your excuses! The building has to be at least... three times bigger than this!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!!
My wife cringes at anything starring Ben Stiller, but I thought Zoolander was hilarious - and that comment was just PERFECT!
Alternatively - hope the Decepticons don't mistake the embassy for an energon cube...
The "moat" in front of it reminds me of the Hall Of Justice, actually.
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So protected from aircraft strikes but vulnerable to...
1. Reading data from the reflection on your eyeball
New techniques involving telescopes and cameras are now able to capture computer data from monitor reflections on eyeballs, glasses, and office picture frames.
http://lawyerist.com/shocking-computer-risk/
So all those building will be filled with folks, some of whom; despite whatever screening methods are used, will be interested in intercepting data.
Imagine the security nightmare of keeping out unwanted eyes when your building is a glass cube surrounded by taller buildings. Even the hard-core spook types make mistakes, so with all the assistants to assistants and Under-Under Secretaries to the Under Secretary and so forth in that building there will be leaks, unintentional or...not.
Funny thing, Eric my wife dislikes Ben Stiller (except for Night at the Museum) as well and hated Zoolander. Me, I'm happy to hear that Ben is looking at some scripts for Zoolander 2.
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I've heard that all the top secret stuff happens in rooms with no windows. Usually with big thick concrete walls and such.
And, I bet that we have fancy polarizing treatments we can put on windows to block out that kind of thing for the not quite so secret stuff, anyways.
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Well, that's assuming that the top secret stuff does not somehow migrate out of the special rooms and that the polarizing works as intended and is maintained.
Plus there could be a lot to be gained just through intercepting non-secret or non-sensitive material.
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Just had a thought:
Embassies use intercontinental communications. I doubt they use local ISP's to accomplish this, so they probably route it through satellites.
So, an embassy beams its sensitive information up to space, and then downloads it back from space after it bounces around a bit to get the the US Mainland computer they happened to need.
How tight is a transmission aimed at a satellite? Is it pinpoint accurate to the receiving dish, or is it a cone that could be 100 yards across when it finally encounters the satellite?
Does the transmission go PAST the satellite and can be intercepted by another satellite BEHIND it?
A constantly changing private key structure that changed with every transmission would make it impossible to glean anything useful from 1-way eavesdropping I guess... but if you could intercept the transmission over-leak you could eventually decrypt it in theory...
...and does E.T. know all our secrets? =D
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I've heard that all the top secret stuff happens in rooms with no windows. Usually with big thick concrete walls and such.
Makes sense. Also, with a cube design, a significant majority of the rooms in the building probably won't have windows.
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A constantly changing private key structure that changed with every transmission would make it impossible to glean anything useful from 1-way eavesdropping I guess... but if you could intercept the transmission over-leak you could eventually decrypt it in theory...
Eventually is a long time in infosec terms. Especially when you have 500-1000 non-useful messages for every sensitive one, and can't tell which is which until you decrypt each one separately.
Throw in some intentional garbage, and it becomes even less practical. I encrypt the snot out of "notes to self" and sometimes send them through long chains of remailers for just that reason. Occasionally, I encrypt a random passage from a book, then randomly change a few characters in the ciphertext so it won't decrypt anymore, and email that to myself for the same reason. If anybody wants to fish through my email, they'll have to deal with all of those before they can find the one or two that have something they could actually use.
As for the high-security embassy, if the Brits are that much of a threat, maybe it's time for that revolution we claimed to be having a couple centuries ago.
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The real question is how many staff and the annual cost to run it.
In the end, worse than the initial investment.
Then extrapolate to all the other locations world-wide.
Jamie
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Throw in some intentional garbage, and it becomes even less practical. I encrypt the snot out of "notes to self" and sometimes send them through long chains of remailers for just that reason. Occasionally, I encrypt a random passage from a book, then randomly change a few characters in the ciphertext so it won't decrypt anymore, and email that to myself for the same reason. If anybody wants to fish through my email, they'll have to deal with all of those before they can find the one or two that have something they could actually use.
"Padding" messages in this way is of course a well established practice, as well as being an integral part of one of the best stories about the Pacific Campaign there is.