Armed Polite Society

Main Forums => The Politics Place => Topic started by: AZRedhawk44 on November 10, 2010, 11:33:13 AM



Title: TSA Super Thread
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 10, 2010, 11:33:13 AM
Hot 20-something woman only person singled out for nekkid-scan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJGvsAgpfig

Flight Attendants (mostly women) protest new procedures:
http://www.abc15.com/dpp/lifestyle/travel/flight-attendants-union-upset-over-new-pat-down-procedures

Pilots seriously oppose:
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/iteam&id=7774593

TSA pats down breasts, crotches:
http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/2010-10-29-tsa-pat-downs_N.htm

TSA Says they don't molest anyone:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/tsa-no-fondling-groping-or-squeezing-is-taking-place-at-airports.html



AZ says:  I'm not flying.  I won't put up with an HOA, let alone draconian dick-head crap like this.  I always walk away from heavily policed authoritarian inspection stations.  Seems more and more people are getting fed up.

I hope the Tea Party candidates that won office take a good look at the Patriot Act, DHS and the TSA in the next 2 years.



Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: SADShooter on November 10, 2010, 11:51:00 AM
But AZ, these measures are for your safety. And the inspectors are wearing cool blue nitrile gloves, so what's to worry?

Seriously, the inspectors I've dealt with recently have been courteous and professional. Still irks me to go through all the screening crap while contemplating all of our other virtually unguarded vulnerabilties.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: adively on November 10, 2010, 12:05:57 PM
But AZ, these measures are for your safety. And the inspectors are wearing cool blue nitrile gloves, so what's to worry?

Seriously, the inspectors I've dealt with recently have been courteous and professional. Still irks me to go through all the screening crap while contemplating all of our other virtually unguarded vulnerabilties.

SADShooter, it is just a security show to put the cattle public at ease.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: SADShooter on November 10, 2010, 12:22:54 PM
Mooo, er, thanks.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Gowen on November 10, 2010, 12:33:54 PM
Neither my wife or I will ever fly again.  I refuse to be treated like this.  Vote with your money, if no one is flying, the airlines will demand the TSA change their policies.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: roo_ster on November 10, 2010, 12:44:43 PM
I have to fly periodically for work, but no longer do so for non-work purposes.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Fly320s on November 10, 2010, 12:45:54 PM
Neither my wife or I will ever fly again.  I refuse to be treated like this.  Vote with your money, if no one is flying, the airlines will demand the TSA change their policies.
As an airline employee, I have no complaint with that approach.

I avoid the TSA whenever I can. I can't stand that organization.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: RevDisk on November 10, 2010, 01:47:16 PM

Screw this.  I'm not flying.  And I'm writing my newly elected Congresscritter and carefully explaining that I'm not voting at the future, as well as encourage others to give their money and votes to someone else, if this agency is not decimated or completely eliminated.  It is more of a threat to the United States than any terrorist organization. 

I encourage others here to do the same. 

Someone once told me a good argument about the limitations of government was to ask someone the following question.  "Would it be acceptable for a government to sexually assault someone?"   Today, we are faced with that question.  It's not theoretical, or a "one off" incident.  Does the US government have the right to sexually assault hundreds of American citizens each and every day?


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Waitone on November 10, 2010, 01:47:22 PM
I was wondering when the revolt would begin. 

Two things to watch for.  First, look for stories regarding vested interests by security bureaucrats in the companies that manufacture whole body scanners.   Second, look for stories about excessive radiation exposure for those who use the scanners. 


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: jamisjockey on November 10, 2010, 02:09:52 PM
Screw this.  I'm not flying.  And I'm writing my newly elected Congresscritter and carefully explaining that I'm not voting at the future, as well as encourage others to give their money and votes to someone else, if this agency is not decimated or completely eliminated.  It is more of a threat to the United States than any terrorist organization. 

I encourage others here to do the same. 

Someone once told me a good argument about the limitations of government was to ask someone the following question.  "Would it be acceptable for a government to sexually assault someone?"   Today, we are faced with that question.  It's not theoretical, or a "one off" incident.  Does the US government have the right to sexually assault hundreds of American citizens each and every day?

Done.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: S. Williamson on November 10, 2010, 04:41:57 PM
Offer to "split the fuel cost" with a private pilot if he "just happens" to be flying in the general direction you want to go.  :angel:


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Gowen on November 10, 2010, 05:23:50 PM
I was wondering when the revolt would begin. 

Two things to watch for.  First, look for stories regarding vested interests by security bureaucrats in the companies that manufacture whole body scanners.   Second, look for stories about excessive radiation exposure for those who use the scanners. 

Remember, Senators, Congressmen, and the bureaucrats have exempted themselves from insider trading laws.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Boomhauer on November 10, 2010, 06:30:23 PM
Remember that they are not satisfied with ruining air travel...the DHS wants to control EVERYTHING. Remember that they want to mount backscatter xray machines on trucks and look in your house...




Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: grampster on November 10, 2010, 08:01:23 PM
Meanwhile all the dangerous stuff is being loaded into the cargo bays of your aircraft by illegal aliens er, undocumented workers er..islamic fanatic tribalist despots family oriented people who have traveled thousands of miles on foot who only want to work jobs Americans don't want, with very little scrutiny.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 10, 2010, 09:01:16 PM
Remember, Senators, Congressmen, and the bureaucrats have exempted themselves from insider trading laws.

Remember that they are not satisfied with ruining air travel...the DHS wants to control EVERYTHING. Remember that they want to mount backscatter xray machines on trucks and look in your house...


Remember, Remember the 5th of November...(http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs36/f/2008/279/2/2/V_for_Vendetta_emoticon_by_nickells.png)


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: 230RN on November 10, 2010, 09:48:57 PM
Quote
I hope the Tea Party candidates that won office take a good look at the Patriot Act, DHS and the TSA in the next 2 years.


Amen.

Do I hear a Hallelujah from the congregation?


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas on November 10, 2010, 09:51:21 PM
Quote
I hope the Tea Party candidates that won office take a good look at the Patriot Act, DHS and the TSA in the next 2 years.
And when they do, I hope they won't like what they see.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: seeker_two on November 11, 2010, 03:00:24 AM
Meanwhile all the dangerous stuff is being loaded into the cargo bays of your aircraft by illegal aliens er, undocumented workers er..islamic fanatic tribalist despots gang-related individuals family oriented people who have traveled thousands of miles on foot who only want to work jobs Americans don't want, with very little scrutiny.

Missed one....


Wonder how the higher-level TSA types would react if some of their personal info (including peeping-tom pics) ended up spread out on the Internet?.....


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Ben on November 11, 2010, 06:40:37 AM
Missed one....


Wonder how the higher-level TSA types would react if some of their personal info (including peeping-tom pics) ended up spread out on the Internet?.....

Add Senators, congresscritters, and other high-ranking .gov officials, because sadly, that will likely be the only way they would step in. Until Nancy Pelosi gets the boob squeezing procedure mentioned in the video, this is for the good of Americans. Why do you hate it? Are you anti-American?


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: roo_ster on November 11, 2010, 07:11:29 AM
Remember, Remember the 5th of November...(http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs36/f/2008/279/2/2/V_for_Vendetta_emoticon_by_nickells.png)

So, you wanna draw, hang, and quarter those responsible?  I'm in, as long as we give them the opportunity to jump from a height to break their neck before the festivities begin.

Or blow the whole deal to Hades?

Frankly, I consider them traitors (and worthy of a traitor's end) rather than myself a revolutionary.  No good reason to ruin such beautiful neoclassical architecture, as the foundations are worthy.  It is the white and black trash additions that are not up to code that must go.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: RevDisk on November 11, 2010, 07:38:37 AM
Frankly, I consider them traitors (and worthy of a traitor's end) rather than myself a revolutionary.  No good reason to ruin such beautiful neoclassical architecture, as the foundations are worthy.  It is the white and black trash additions that are not up to code that must go.

Bingo.  I've met extremely view people that want to overthrow America or whatnot.  Everyone, and I mean everyone, is pissed at the US government to varying degrees.

When we've gotten to the point that US government employees are allowed and required to commit sexual assault on a daily basis, the individuals doing so are the problem and a threat to their country.  Any person willing to do such things should never be allowed to be a government employee, nor be put in any position of trust.  Yet such individuals who voluntarily demonstrate that they are unworthy of trust are "trusted" with the security of our country? 


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: charby on November 11, 2010, 07:44:43 AM
Think they would let you fly if you wore Zed's outfit with flip flops?



Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: grampster on November 11, 2010, 04:48:26 PM
TSA is union, man!  Solidarity!!!  Stand against the commoner!!  Death to freedom!!  Long live the Cube!!!


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Seenterman on November 12, 2010, 07:41:41 AM
Quote
"We spend my child's whole life telling him that only mom, dad and a doctor can touch you in your private area, and now we have to add TSA agent and that's just wrong," he told Reuters. "At some point the terrorists have won."

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AA55S20101111

The man's right. When we are so crippled by fear that we can excuse children being molested in front of their parents and being necessary the terrorists have won.

Seriously what happened to those sniffer machines that blew air on you to detect explosives. I went through one at LAX in '04 IIRC, and that was a breeze. Like a metal detector only you have to stand there for a couple of seconds longer and you get a nice cool blast of air that hits you for a second. They had them 6 years ago, why can't they bring those back in force, it would save our dignity and the TSA a lot of controversy.  Sometimes I seriously think that some folks in to gov just sit around all day and think "What can we get away with today?"


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: adively on November 12, 2010, 08:13:41 AM
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AA55S20101111

The man's right. When we are so crippled by fear that we can excuse children being molested in front of their parents and being necessary the terrorists have won.

Seriously what happened to those sniffer machines that blew air on you to detect explosives. I went through one at LAX in '04 IIRC, and that was a breeze. Like a metal detector only you have to stand there for a couple of seconds longer and you get a nice cool blast of air that hits you for a second. They had them 6 years ago, why can't they bring those back in force, it would save our dignity and the TSA a lot of controversy.  Sometimes I seriously think that some folks in to gov just sit around all day and think "What can we get away with today?"

IIRC they were all pulled from service, since they found that the units were unreliable.

Ah yes here it is: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/05/21/Airport-bomb-detector-system-scrapped/UPI-32061242921540/ (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/05/21/Airport-bomb-detector-system-scrapped/UPI-32061242921540/)

Again Security Theater Show for the public.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: jamisjockey on November 12, 2010, 09:18:29 AM
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AA55S20101111

The man's right. When we are so crippled by fear that we can excuse children being molested in front of their parents and being necessary the terrorists have won.

This.

x a million bajillion.

I got this email from Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson's office

Quote
Dear Friend:
     Thank you for contacting me regarding airline safety and security.  I welcome your thoughts and comments.
 
     As the Ranking Member of the Senate Commerce, Science, and Transportation Committee, I understand the importance of aviation security.  Since our nation was attacked on 9/11, we have instituted many effective policies to protect us against the threat of future terrorist attacks.  Many of these policies naturally impact the transportation sectors in the U.S., particularly at airports.   Unfortunately, these security policies systematically failed with the nearly successful terrorist attack on one of our airliners on Christmas Day 2009 by an Al Qaeda-trained Nigerian terrorist.  This disturbing incident highlights the evolving nature of terrorist threats against our country.
 
     In response to the December 25, 2009 attempted attack, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) announced plans to enhance passenger screening and detection capabilities, including an increase in the deployment of advanced imaging technology (AIT) machines, also known as "body imaging scanners",  from 878 units to 1,800 units by 2014.  The AIT produces an image of a passenger's body that a screener can use to identify objects or anomalies on the outside of the physical body. TSA officials have also indicated they hope to use this technology for primary screening where feasible, rather than as a strictly secondary measure.  However, passengers concerned for their personal privacy may always opt for traditional screening methods.

     We must ensure that the federal security agencies entrusted with protecting us can adapt the detection and prevention measures we employ to stay ahead of these changing threats.  It is clear that the current measures in place were inadequate to prevent this type of plot.  The country was very fortunate that when the device malfunctioned the crew and passengers of flight 253 acted heroically.  Our nation must do better.

     Along with this increased commitment comes an increased responsibility on the part of the security agents and administrators.  TSA must pay close attention to the privacy concerns of individuals, consistently demonstrate reasonable judgment, and perform its duties in a highly professional manner.  Failure to exercise sound judgment and professionalism is not acceptable.  Please be assured that I will continue to do everything in my power to hold security providers accountable.
 
     I appreciate hearing from you, and I hope that you will not hesitate to contact me on any issue that is important to you.     
 
Sincerely,
Kay Bailey Hutchison
United States Senator
 
284 Russell Senate Office Building
Washington, DC  20510
202-224-5922 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              202-224-5922      end_of_the_skype_highlighting (tel)
202-224-0776 (fax)
http://hutchison.senate.gov

They
just
don't
get
it.

I sent a scathing reply.  We'll see if that goes anywhere.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: MechAg94 on November 12, 2010, 09:58:32 AM
Wow.  Glad she failed in her bid to be Gov of Texas.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Ben on November 12, 2010, 01:38:13 PM
You know what, this whole thing with the TSA right now has made me optimistic.

Right around the time I saw this topic posted, I started seeing articles and reports all over the news on it. There is a groundswell of indignation and revolt that is running from the Left to the Right. The Left still has its "it's for the children" people backing TSA, and the Right still has the "as long as it's for our security, I'm for it" people doing the same, but I am seeing a LARGE cross-section of political beliefs coming out against the new procedures.

The fact that people who will disagree about health care, and taxes, and politics in general until Hell freezes over, can all come together to protest an injustice like this, and demand change, ups my pride in America.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: roo_ster on November 12, 2010, 05:04:48 PM
Also note:

The stink started on the "unreliable" sites that every smart ass says something like "Do you have a credible source/link?"

The MSM links took a while to get rolling.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: roo_ster on November 12, 2010, 05:06:41 PM
JJ:

You finally feel Texas's pain with regard to Senator Squish.  Makes Governor Goodhair look great in comparison.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: erictank on November 12, 2010, 06:31:31 PM
Caution: images at top and bottom of linked site are from Nude-O-Scopes aka virtual-strip-search-machines, possibly NSFW - but that's part of the problem, isn't it? (I believe the bottom ones are from the MMW scanners, and the top ones are from the TSA-preferred, and ionizing-radiation-using, backscatter-X-Ray machines produced by the company owned in part by ex-TSA bigwig Michael Chertoff)

http://www.optoutday.com/

"National Opt Out Day" - if you fly on Wed Nov 24, 2010, please say "I choose to opt-out" when directed to go through the Nude-O-Scope.  When directed to endure the perp-frisk (or "enhanced pat-down", in TSA-speak), have it done in public, or at the very least in front of YOUR choice of witnesses, not TSA's.

Of course, it's good to do these things ANY day you fly, not just on the 24th, but they're trying to get EVERYONE to refuse the Nude-O-Scope that day.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: zxcvbob on November 12, 2010, 06:52:39 PM
What needs to happen is a woman (not being sexist, but it'll have to be a woman to work) being groped *slaps* the TSA agent when he grabs her crotch or her boobs.  A hard slap.  She'll be arrested, of course, but that will be the Rosa Parks moment.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: sanglant on November 12, 2010, 07:39:20 PM
i maintain, give me my native,(spyderco) diesel,(gerber) and no.6,(opinel) pocket knives. and every other passenger there EDC pocket knifes. and let the cowards try to hijack another passenger plane. >:D



much less there loaded CCWs


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas on November 12, 2010, 08:46:07 PM
What needs to happen is a woman (not being sexist, but it'll have to be a woman to work) being groped *slaps* the TSA agent when he grabs her crotch or her boobs.  A hard slap.  She'll be arrested, of course, but that will be the Rosa Parks moment.
Not likely to happen. They have male and female personnel on hand for just that, IIRC.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: seeker_two on November 13, 2010, 06:16:00 AM
JJ:

You finally feel Texas's pain with regard to Senator Squish.  Makes Governor Goodhair look great in comparison.

Not really....it just means that Texas is even more screwed up in its politics than it thinks it is....  :facepalm:


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Fly320s on November 13, 2010, 06:43:29 AM
Not likely to happen. They have male and female personnel on hand for just that, IIRC.
So a female TSA agent groping a female passenger is OK? 


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Ben on November 13, 2010, 06:57:27 AM
What needs to happen is a woman (not being sexist, but it'll have to be a woman to work) being groped *slaps* the TSA agent when he grabs her crotch or her boobs.  A hard slap.  She'll be arrested, of course, but that will be the Rosa Parks moment.

Given that they gender match for the pat down. it might actually work better (or more likely happen) with a man. If somebody squeezes too hard in the wrong place and squishes one of my testicles, punching him in the head might very well be an involuntary reaction to get him and the pain to stop.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Strings on November 13, 2010, 07:44:37 AM
Hmmm...

So what would the possible reactions be if they check a gay man, and he just smiles?

Something tells me there's comedy gold in there...

 [popcorn]


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas on November 13, 2010, 09:30:29 AM
So a female TSA agent groping a female passenger is OK? 
No, just more likely to get away with it in the current era, IMO. After all, certain groups really believe that "all men are dogs/rapists."
And any reaction to same-sex groping would no doubt be spun as homophobia.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Tallpine on November 13, 2010, 09:38:31 AM
No, just more likely to get away with it in the current era, IMO. After all, certain groups really believe that "all men are dogs/rapists."
And any reaction to same-sex groping would no doubt be spun as homophobia.

So, what if - just for the sake of argument - I would claim to be "gay" and demand a female to pat me down ?


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: jamisjockey on November 13, 2010, 09:42:03 AM
Hmmm...

So what would the possible reactions be if they check a gay man, and he just smiles?

Something tells me there's comedy gold in there...

 [popcorn]

Oh, you better believe I will act like I enjoy every minute of it.  I will make the TSAweenie feel like he's the one who just got molested...


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Ben on November 13, 2010, 10:01:35 AM
Oh, you better believe I will act like I enjoy every minute of it.  I will make the TSAweenie feel like he's the one who just got molested...

You'd better have someone video it and then post it here!  :laugh:


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas on November 13, 2010, 10:04:36 AM
So, what if - just for the sake of argument - I would claim to be "gay" and demand a female to pat me down ?
Probably wouldn't let you, though it's worth a try.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Tallpine on November 13, 2010, 11:18:00 AM
Probably wouldn't let you, though it's worth a try.

Well, it's better to just not fly.

The only times that I have ever flown were when I had to for work.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Hawkmoon on November 13, 2010, 11:39:37 AM
Not likely to happen. They have male and female personnel on hand for just that, IIRC.

Incorrect. They say that the pat-downs will be conducted by a member of the same gender, but in reality it doesn't work that way unless the passehnger makes a stink -- and that simply invites a more invasive "pat-down."

Funny -- they don't have these things in Israel, they have bomb sniffing dogs and security agents trained to spot people who might be carrying/wearing bombs, and they haven't had any planes blown up. The only reason that won't work for the U.S. is that the U.S. gummint doesn't want it to work.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Ben on November 13, 2010, 12:02:24 PM
Funny -- they don't have these things in Israel, they have bomb sniffing dogs and security agents trained to spot people who might be carrying/wearing bombs, and they haven't had any planes blown up. The only reason that won't work for the U.S. is that the U.S. gummint doesn't want it to work.

I don't like any of this stuff, but from what I've read of the Israeli methods is that they are more effective and less intrusive. Don't know how accurate that is, and maybe Micro can weigh in. If we can't get rid of "enhanced" screening altogether, on the face of it if they're going to give me a pounding without Vaseline, the Israeli method seems like it would be more likely to actually be effective against the bad guys. My understanding is that most of the "screening" takes place before you ever reach the airport.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: HeroHog on November 13, 2010, 01:25:55 PM
I wonder what would happen if ya had a raging boner when they groped you? I'd love to see the look on the TSA guys face if he crabbed someones hard-on!


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Regolith on November 13, 2010, 01:37:44 PM
I wonder what would happen if ya had a raging boner when they groped you? I'd love to see the look on the TSA guys face if he crabbed someones hard-on!

Heh.  A lot of people are saying that they're going to act like they "like" it, just to embarrass the hell out of the TSA agent.

Personally, I'm just going to avoid flying.  I've done without it for 24 years, and I'll continue to do without it if this crap keeps up.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Sindawe on November 13, 2010, 03:12:43 PM
I too am done with flying.  I can get across the country just fine on wheels and enjoy watching the landscape change as I do so. Getting scanned, groped and treated like a crimminal for purchasing the services of an airline is not in the equation.

A blogger recounts his encounter with the TSA this morning.

http://johnnyedge.blogspot.com/2010/11/these-events-took-place-roughly-between.html#comment-form

Sadly not everyone is willing to stand up to the TSA, even when their children are involved.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/69522.html

 [barf]


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: HeroHog on November 13, 2010, 03:33:49 PM
EVERY time I fly I get the "special treatment", of course they tell me it's "random" but random, by definition is not 100% of the time, no? Think me having been an FFL, having CHP in the 3 different individual states I have lived in an 1 I haven't as well as 1 back BEFORE "shall issue" might have anything to do with it? Naw, that's just a coincidence... Yeah, I don't intend to fly any time soon unless forced to.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Tallpine on November 13, 2010, 03:35:08 PM
I too am done with flying.  I can get across the country just fine on wheels and enjoy watching the landscape change as I do so. Getting scanned, groped and treated like a crimminal for purchasing the services of an airline is not in the equation.

A blogger recounts his encounter with the TSA this morning.

http://johnnyedge.blogspot.com/2010/11/these-events-took-place-roughly-between.html#comment-form

Sadly not everyone is willing to stand up to the TSA, even when their children are involved.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/69522.html

 [barf]

From one of the comments:

Quote
Many of us are now afraid to fly. Not because of terrorists, but because of our own government.

Our government is the terrorists  :mad:


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Ben on November 13, 2010, 03:41:54 PM
That Johnnyedge.com guy is awesome. I haven't flown since the machines started to really be distributed. I'm not sure if I would have the guts to do what he did. I would like to think so, and to think that more people would.

I do know that I'm not flying for personal travel as long as this is going on. There's lots of great places that I can see via my private auto, where I can carry more than 4oz of toothpaste, as well as a gun. I also plan on refusing any work travel via commercial aircraft under current conditions. Don't know how well it will go over, but I'm certainly going to give it a try.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Tallpine on November 13, 2010, 03:49:53 PM
Quote
I also plan on refusing any work travel via commercial aircraft under current conditions. Don't know how well it will go over, but I'm certainly going to give it a try.

Isn't sexual harassment on the job prohibited  ???   =|


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: jamisjockey on November 13, 2010, 04:00:16 PM
That Johnnyedge.com guy is awesome. I haven't flown since the machines started to really be distributed. I'm not sure if I would have the guts to do what he did. I would like to think so, and to think that more people would.

I do know that I'm not flying for personal travel as long as this is going on. There's lots of great places that I can see via my private auto, where I can carry more than 4oz of toothpaste, as well as a gun. I also plan on refusing any work travel via commercial aircraft under current conditions. Don't know how well it will go over, but I'm certainly going to give it a try.

Hell, for us, family of four, its generally cheaper to drive.  Costs us an extra day or two depending on how far we're going, but the added benefit of bringing everything and the kitchen sink is worth it.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: zxcvbob on November 13, 2010, 04:19:53 PM
I like the suggestion to wear an athletic cup.  What if everybody did that?   >:D


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: doczinn on November 13, 2010, 04:22:28 PM
Me, I'll be wearing a tin-foil cutout of a raised middle finger, on my back.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Boomhauer on November 13, 2010, 04:38:24 PM
Quote
Sadly not everyone is willing to stand up to the TSA, even when their children are involved

Lemme know how jacking up that TSA agent who cops a feel of your kid works out for you.


The problem is that short of drastic action that will land you in jail, there isn't much of a way of standing up to TSA. Even simply saying something ends with you in handcuffs and TSA 'tards getting their "respect ma authoritah!" on.







Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Doggy Daddy on November 13, 2010, 05:10:54 PM
There should be an award/medal/certificate given to those who set the example of resisting Teh Grope.

This award should be called "The Mandy."

DD


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: erictank on November 13, 2010, 06:41:49 PM
Probably wouldn't let you, though it's worth a try.

They can't stop you from taking photos or video, as long as you are not interfering in the screening process or capturing images of their monitors.  Correction - they cannot LEGALLY stop you, subject to the local applicable laws.

A Travel Safety & Security poster asked a few dozen airports about their policy re: photography and videotaping.  I do not recall a single one which stated it was illegal to take pics or video on premises, with the exceptions for interfering with screening and capturing the monitor images.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: erictank on November 13, 2010, 06:44:00 PM
I wonder what would happen if ya had a raging boner when they groped you? I'd love to see the look on the TSA guys face if he crabbed someones hard-on!

http://xkcd.com/779/

I don't know if I could maintain it through screening, myself.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: jamisjockey on November 13, 2010, 06:49:46 PM
I have a stupid question.
Every sample screening picture I've seen shows the subject with a knife or gun. 
Do these things pick up non metallic objects? Like explosives?
I guess what I'm asking is if they actually work to detect the stuff they are supposed to be "protecting" us from?


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: erictank on November 13, 2010, 06:54:54 PM
I have a stupid question.
Every sample screening picture I've seen shows the subject with a knife or gun. 
Do these things pick up non metallic objects? Like explosives?
I guess what I'm asking is if they actually work to detect the stuff they are supposed to be "protecting" us from?

The Nude-O-Scopes reportedly can detect nearly anything outside of your skin - there are credible reports of people who neglected to remove a receipt or small number of dollar bills from their pants pockets being subjected to a frisk as a result of the image return. 

They CANNOT detect anything inside a body cavity, or under folds of skin/fat - which is one reason for the frisker lifting a friskee's breasts/manipulating testicles/moving an obese person's fat folds, etc.  TSA refuses to comment on this, or on what women on their period should do to avoid problems.  After all, we're just the proles, any problems they cause us are our own fault, apparently...  [barf]


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: jamisjockey on November 13, 2010, 07:18:24 PM
It won't be long before a dedicated jihadist has something planted under his skin.
They will keep trying. 
And Amerika will keep coming up with more invasive ways to make us "safe".


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas on November 13, 2010, 07:21:55 PM
It won't be long before a dedicated jihadist has something planted under his skin.
They will keep trying. 
And Amerika will keep coming up with more invasive ways to make us "safe".

A guy in Saudi Arabia smuggled a bomb in his backside and nearly killed one of the fifty thousand members of their royal family.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Laurent du Var on November 14, 2010, 02:13:29 AM
Since I am professionally involved in travelling I follow
the different aspects of airfare closely.
 
This has led me to the conclusion that gouverments of Europe and the US
do not want you to leave your country. I don't know why but there must be a
nice little conspiracy theory out there, somewhere.

Full frontal nudity scanners are just the latest bad news on a long list of
difficulties imposed by the powers to be.
It's just another way of erecting a virtual iron curtain for the sheep. 

You can here them everywhere - I won't take the plane anymore, meehhh.....
For those who resist - cavity search is next - yippiiee.

 


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: White Horseradish on November 14, 2010, 04:16:10 AM
A guy in Saudi Arabia smuggled a bomb in his backside and nearly killed one of the fifty thousand members of their royal family.
He failed, but made a hell of a mess in the palace...


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: roo_ster on November 14, 2010, 04:35:36 AM
I have a stupid question.
Every sample screening picture I've seen shows the subject with a knife or gun. 
Do these things pick up non metallic objects? Like explosives?
I guess what I'm asking is if they actually work to detect the stuff they are supposed to be "protecting" us from?

No.

The last impetus that caused TSA to go apey for the pono-scopes was the Underwear Bomber who turned his hardware into charcoaled bits.  Of course, it was quickly demonstrated that the particular method he used would not have shown up on the porno-scope, but that was quickly swept under the rug.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Ben on November 14, 2010, 06:59:37 AM
No.

The last impetus that caused TSA to go apey for the pono-scopes was the Underwear Bomber who turned his hardware into charcoaled bits.  Of course, it was quickly demonstrated that the particular method he used would not have shown up on the porno-scope, but that was quickly swept under the rug.

Even if that was detectable, if keestering explosives (or anthrax or nerve agent or whatever) doesn't show up, how long before they catch someone with something stuck up their butt? Then it's either medical X-rays or physical exams for all.

Maybe that's what we need to have happen. Maybe that will be the breaking point for a critical mass of people, and we can then finally look at alternatives that actually make sense. It would just be sad if that's how far it had to go before this nonsense ends.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Tallpine on November 14, 2010, 07:17:34 AM
Lemme know how jacking up that TSA agent who cops a feel of your kid works out for you.


The problem is that short of drastic action that will land you in jail, there isn't much of a way of standing up to TSA. Even simply saying something ends with you in handcuffs and TSA 'tards getting their "respect ma authoritah!" on.


That one scene in The Matrix keeps coming to my mind....  >:D


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: jamisjockey on November 14, 2010, 07:44:33 AM
And next will be a tactic that is already employed in Iraq and Afghanistan.  They will take advantage of the long lines and blow themselves up or go on a shooting spree at the actual checkpoints.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: White Horseradish on November 14, 2010, 10:26:06 AM
And next will be a tactic that is already employed in Iraq and Afghanistan.  They will take advantage of the long lines and blow themselves up or go on a shooting spree at the actual checkpoints.
You know, this is exactly what was going through my head when I was in a line to a checkpoint in Orlando last year. There were actually six or so parallel lines, a sizable crowd of people, all standing in one place.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 14, 2010, 10:49:10 AM
you don't have to be spectacular   send in someone or something with a biological on it.  thanksgiving  major hub  infect 10's of thousands who scatter to the four winds infecting others.  sooner or later

the ira caller after the failed shot in the hotel at thatcher said it best.   "you got lucky today, you have to be lucky everytime, we only have to be lucky once"

haven't flown in a couple years  too poor, that said what are the alternatives you have in mind?
i have some limited familiarity with the israeli methods.  how do you propose applying them here?


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: seeker_two on November 14, 2010, 11:26:57 AM
Open fly....pressure-sensitive bladder...just sayin'...


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: InfidelSerf on November 14, 2010, 09:29:49 PM
"Two by two Hands of Blue"


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Waitone on November 15, 2010, 05:53:37 AM
It is only a matter of time before a TSA drone is cold-cocked.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: roo_ster on November 15, 2010, 07:56:57 AM
It is only a matter of time before a TSA drone is cold-cocked.

It has already been too long.

I can't believe someone didn't already post this:
(http://images.cryhavok.org/d/4854-1/My+First+Cavity+Search.jpg)

Which leads me to this blog posting showing a TSA monitor with that image & a discussion over its authenticity:
http://fascistsoup.com/2010/11/12/tsa-desktop-background-image-of-child-body-cavity-search/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mgrdcm/3304306634/ (read the comment)
So, whadda ya'll think?



I think this has become appropriate for TSA:
(http://fascistsoup.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/pedobear.jpg)

(http://n2.nabble.com/file/n4278094/Pedo-bear-approved-large.jpg)



Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: adively on November 15, 2010, 09:45:11 AM
Semi-NSFW (People down to their undies) - Germans Protesting Body Scanners
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EqBcNHX_To (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EqBcNHX_To)

Man opts out of Body Scanner and tells TSA agent "If you touch my junk, I will have you arrested"  Guy not allowed to go past security and possible fine of $10,000.  Obviously there is more to the story.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEJC-FuOSZ4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEJC-FuOSZ4)

3 year old gets patted down
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TCHSGvNwRY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TCHSGvNwRY)


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Ben on November 15, 2010, 09:53:46 AM
And on a disturbingly ironic note (SFW):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cjd/1418632004/?ref=nf


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 15, 2010, 10:08:29 AM
And on a disturbingly ironic note (SFW):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cjd/1418632004/?ref=nf

i have friend who dressed as a priest when he went to ireland   automatic upgrade to first class if there was an empty seat
he got funny looks about the gross of condoms he smuggled in one time


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: doczinn on November 15, 2010, 10:19:25 AM
If it were reasonable to grab genitals, it would make sense to grab everyone's genitals. Just because it looks like a nun and walks like a nun doesn't mean it's a nun.

Of course, that "if" is the important part. It's far from reasonable.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 15, 2010, 10:28:55 AM

is it or isn't it?
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/09/muslims-dressed-as-priests-attack-young-jewish-man.html

profiling is bad!

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1050707.ece


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: kgbsquirrel on November 15, 2010, 11:31:15 AM
More on "don't touch my junk" dude.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/11/15/california.airport.security/index.html?hpt=T2

So now everyone gets to either go through the x-ray scanners or get felt up before being allowed through Hmm, I think I may have misread the first sentence, my prior statement redacted unless proven otherwise. Then there is this little tidbit from the 9th Circus Circuit: In the event you do not wish to be viewed nude or groped you do not have the option to just leave.

Quote from: 9th Circuit
"requiring that a potential passenger be allowed to revoke consent to an ongoing airport security search makes little sense in a post-9/11 world. Such a rule would afford terrorists multiple opportunities to attempt to penetrate airport security by 'electing not to fly' on the cusp of detection until a vulnerable portal is found."



Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 15, 2010, 11:55:34 AM
The 9th Circus ruling has me completely outraged.  Stark.  Raving.  Mad.  Outraged.

I hereby declare war against the Airline Industry until this is resolved... and resolved in favor of Liberty and Sensibility.

Shifty Arabs are the problem.  Period.  End of sentence.

My truck is nearly paid off, my school loans are nearly paid off, and my plastic is nearly paid off.  By this spring, I'm going to be in a WONDERFUL financial position to start truly experiencing the rewards of my income and the things life has to offer.  I was considering some travel with the freed-up income.  NY, MA, DC, UK, Italy.

Eff that.

I'm learning to fly.  I'm not letting the bovine government lock me to the ground, and I'm not putting up with the TSA bull.  I WILL assert my freedom.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: kgbsquirrel on November 15, 2010, 12:01:28 PM
...

I'm learning to fly.  I'm not letting the bovine government lock me to the ground, and I'm not putting up with the TSA bull.  I WILL assert my freedom.

Don't they compel private pilots with their own private planes/helicopters to comply with that same bullshit short of using only very small privately owned air fields?


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 15, 2010, 12:12:02 PM
I've got a couple pilot friends that puddle-jump all over to regional airports with no rectal probing.

They get into some pretty big airparks.  Scottsdale's Falcon Field can land some pretty big jets, and Williams-Gateway in Mesa has landed AF1 a few times, and used to be an Air Force base.  No rectal probe.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: sanglant on November 15, 2010, 01:05:15 PM
It is only a matter of time before a TSA drone is cold-cocked.
nah, i'm not planning on flying anytime soon. :angel:


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: GigaBuist on November 15, 2010, 01:11:33 PM
Shifty Arabs are the problem.  Period.  End of sentence.

Except when it's not an Arab.  Like the British born shoe bomber.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 15, 2010, 01:50:24 PM
or mcveigh nichols et al
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200404/23/eng20040423_141323.shtml

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/172553.php

and heres a hit
ttp://pajamasmedia.com/blog/fbi-raid-in-mn-reveals-new-global-terror-alliances-pjm-exclusive/


lots more going back before some of you were born  heck  before your parents met  before the internet even


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: jamisjockey on November 15, 2010, 02:14:43 PM
Don't they compel private pilots with their own private planes/helicopters to comply with that same bullshit short of using only very small privately owned air fields?

Not yet.  You can go access many private hangers at most airports without passing through any sort of security.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: AJ Dual on November 15, 2010, 02:27:23 PM
If the non-existent security at charter/private hangars proves what we've got now is security theater, I don't know what does.

Not that I'm not glad the private side still has some breathing room.



Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: jamisjockey on November 15, 2010, 02:30:53 PM
If the non-existent security at charter/private hangars proves what we've got now is security theater, I don't know what does.

Not that I'm not glad the private side still has some breathing room.



I'm still not sure how half of the TSA folks I see could pass a security clearance of any kind. 


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 15, 2010, 02:31:49 PM
come from countries with no nics


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: roo_ster on November 15, 2010, 02:33:27 PM
I'm still not sure how half of the TSA folks I see could pass a security clearance of any kind. 

This plus a bunch.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 15, 2010, 03:57:14 PM
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2007/08/court-says-trav/

read it and weep


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 15, 2010, 04:33:05 PM
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2007/08/court-says-trav/

read it and weep

(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQPnnqLLa0lIm-k5zIIb4zjF2kAAuHpPnyHsqqfexWoiZyUfvuzrA)

(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS_Vjcr4ydHvrJy8WuP1Q6lZ3OPDNtq6yJVL4RMosQkG3nmIoNz)

(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ6yiaW74gDlWZHYaRSLG3I5yap2ChGw8KmDkr3d0u-QU19ea-V)


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Tallpine on November 15, 2010, 04:39:14 PM
At this rate, it won't be too long before we have strip search roadblocks along the highways  :mad:


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: adively on November 15, 2010, 05:36:11 PM
At this rate, it won't be too long before we have strip search roadblocks along the highways  :mad:

Meh....we already somewhat do that when we cross from Ohio to Kentucky.  It's mandatory to take off your shoes when you enter Kentucky.   =D  ;)

ETA:  New ad to feature TSA agent in one of the Cialis bathtubs.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Boomhauer on November 15, 2010, 06:36:37 PM
Don't they compel private pilots with their own private planes/helicopters to comply with that same bullshit short of using only very small privately owned air fields?

Not yet. if you visit a controlled airport, you must either have a ramp pass or be escorted by someone with one.

I say "yet" because TSA is desperate to regulate GA, of course.


Until then, I get to fly with an M4 clone and my M&P, heh...



Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: doczinn on November 15, 2010, 07:10:58 PM
The Ninth Circuit can kiss my ass.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: S. Williamson on November 15, 2010, 10:12:07 PM
Not yet. if you visit a controlled airport, you must either have a ramp pass or be escorted by someone with one.

I say "yet" because TSA is desperate to regulate GA, of course.


Until then, I get to fly with an M4 clone and my M&P, heh...


This.

Heck, last month we were pulling out a Lear 60 when the pilot comes bounding over to me exclaiming, "Look at THIS!!!" while the co-pilot lugged out of the back of his truck (parked in-hangar) his brand new Barrett M82A1.  Suckers are heavy.  =D


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 16, 2010, 04:46:20 AM
Except when it's not an Arab.  Like the British born shoe bomber.

Yes, let's all cower under our beds in fear of people who think setting C4 on fire is the way to exploding planes.

Nothing would bring me more glee than having ALL Islamic terrorists try that.

"Here, Ahmad. Wrap yourself in this explosive... here is your match... good luck."


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: AJ Dual on November 16, 2010, 06:19:36 AM
Nitrated hexamine and similar compounds are toxic when burned.

Not healthy.

It's really irresponsible to suggest that suicide bombers try to use simple fire to light plastic explosives.  =|


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 16, 2010, 06:40:12 AM
Alternatively they may try setting their underoos on fire. That's cool too.


Title: TSA Super Thread
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 16, 2010, 06:42:38 AM
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/nov/15/tsa-probe-scan-resistor/

If they can't probe him rectally, then they'll probe him with all the legal/LEO resources they can throw at him. :'(

And to add continued petty TSA-style insult to injury:

Quote
Michael J. Aguilar, chief of the TSA office in San Diego, called a news conference at the airport Monday afternoon to announce the probe. He said the investigation could lead to prosecution and civil penalties of up to $11,000.

TSA agents had told Tyner on Saturday that he could be fined up to $10,000.

ôThatĺs the old fine,ö Aguilar said. ôIt has been increased.ö

Probably because of inflation.  Dog's gotta eat, ya know?



Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 16, 2010, 07:23:52 AM
you might read the 9th circuits opinion that borks this guy   it actually makes sense  against all odds


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Tallpine on November 16, 2010, 07:32:01 AM
It's fairly obvious to see where this is headed ...

Shoe bomber

Penis bomber

Anus bomber

 ;/


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: roo_ster on November 16, 2010, 07:34:27 AM
Airports can dump the TSA and hire private screeners:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Amid-airport-anger_-GOP-takes-aim-at-screening-1576602-108259869.html


Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: Tallpine on November 16, 2010, 07:40:03 AM
Quote
The Government: Your Enemy 

Unfortunately a lot of people are just now figuring that out  =(


Living inside a dystopian science fiction story is not nearly as fun as reading it in a book or watching it on a movie/tv screen.


Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: mtnbkr on November 16, 2010, 07:47:19 AM
Living inside a dystopian science fiction story is not nearly as fun as reading it in a book or watching it on a movie/tv screen.

I wish we at least had the SciFi to go along with our oppression. :(

Chris


Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: Tallpine on November 16, 2010, 07:51:42 AM
I wish we at least had the SciFi to go along with our oppression. :(

Chris

Well, we do have a lot of it.  There's that internet thingie, for one.

Iris scans not sci-fi enough for you...?  =(

http://www.lewrockwell.com/whitehead/whitehead21.1.html


Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: longeyes on November 16, 2010, 08:03:29 AM
What is government today but molestation writ large?

And who would expect otherwise with the people now in control?


Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: Ben on November 16, 2010, 08:15:07 AM
I can't help but wonder if they're now going after this guy with both barrels to try and discourage others from opting out on opt-out day? Which if it gets enough public participation, will get a lot of media coverage and give the TSA the metaphorical bloody nose.

If they are, bad move on their part. They're reading the mood of the country about as well as Pelosi did.


Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: HankB on November 16, 2010, 08:21:12 AM
That's what happens when small people are granted large authority.   :mad:


Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: lee n. field on November 16, 2010, 08:29:39 AM
Quote
TSA agents had told Tyner on Saturday that he could be fined up to $10,000.

ôThatĺs the old fine,ö Aguilar said. ôIt has been increased.ö

"This one goes to 11"


Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: Jocassee on November 16, 2010, 08:36:44 AM
"This one goes to 11"


i c whut you did there


Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: Sergeant Bob on November 16, 2010, 08:53:48 AM
This crap does remind me of Halflife II (minus the head crabs and whatnot). =| That's more sci-fi than I'm comfortable with.


Title: But the Nekkid Scanner Pics Aren't Saved!!!oneoneleventy1!
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 16, 2010, 08:57:24 AM
http://gizmodo.com/5690749/

Supposedly "unsaved" scans from a courthouse.

The US Marshalls that did this, did it illegally.

Suppose they'll be held accountable?

Suppose anyone else saved pics on nekkid scanners?  Suppose they'll be held accountable?


Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 16, 2010, 09:00:04 AM
This crap does remind me of Halflife II (minus the head crabs and whatnot). =| That's more sci-fi than I'm comfortable with.

(http://cdn1.spong.com/news/g/o/gordonfree280821/_-Gordon-Freeman-on-the-Case-Large-Hadron-Collider-Safe-_.jpg)


Title: Re: But the Nekkid Scanner Pics Aren't Saved!!!oneoneleventy1!
Post by: Harold Tuttle on November 16, 2010, 09:04:54 AM
I heard the TSA images are reviewed remotely

something is cached somewhere


Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: Warren on November 16, 2010, 09:23:50 AM
We're from the glovernment and we're here to help. Now bend over.


Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: Boomhauer on November 16, 2010, 09:27:57 AM
This crap does remind me of Halflife II (minus the head crabs and whatnot). =| That's more sci-fi than I'm comfortable with.

I'm waiting for when they put up the giant screens with Dear Leader preaching to us and Civil Protection starts patrolling the streets.


Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: RevDisk on November 16, 2010, 09:46:49 AM
Living inside a dystopian science fiction story is not nearly as fun as reading it in a book or watching it on a movie/tv screen.

Ayep.  Welcome to the future.  It's a lot like the past. 

I had to agree with the folks that say we're living in science fiction.  We have swarms of semi-autonomous drones that we use to assassinate our enemies in many places around the world, we have massive active domestic surveillance programs, any telecommunication connection can be tapped on the fly, we can communicate across the world in full video with barely noticable lag or expense, we have robots active on other planets, we genetically modify life every day, we can actually move around individual atoms and do interesting stuff with them, people are starting to do biological engineering in basement labs to create new life, etc.   Most of this so routine, we don't even think about it. 


Some of us are not surprised that we ended up with combination of Firefly, Shadowrun and Count Zero instead of say, Star Trek where everything is so neat and clean.   Tech changes.  People don't.  Governments don't.  We had a chance on July 2, 1776, in June 1783 and another on July 1794.  Looks like we've badly blown those.  But each and every day is a chance to turn the ship around... 


Title: Re: But the Nekkid Scanner Pics Aren't Saved!!!oneoneleventy1!
Post by: RevDisk on November 16, 2010, 09:47:42 AM

TSA procurement specifications require the ability to transmit and/or save said images.  TSA promises they are not using the features they require.


Title: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 16, 2010, 10:37:55 AM
http://www.infowars.com/tsa-now-putting-hands-down-fliers-pants/

Un-freakin-real.


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 16, 2010, 10:55:49 AM
This being infowars, it may be literally not real.


Title: Re: But the Nekkid Scanner Pics Aren't Saved!!!oneoneleventy1!
Post by: Tallpine on November 16, 2010, 10:55:55 AM
TSA procurement specifications require the ability to transmit and/or save said images.  TSA promises they are not using the features they require.

Well, I can't imagine that they would lie about that, do you ...?

 ;/


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: never_retreat on November 16, 2010, 11:50:27 AM
As much as most of you hate NJ and bash everything about it. Here is my state rep in action. (and he shoots too)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H9HNEtrvEE


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: French G. on November 16, 2010, 12:33:12 PM
http://www.13wham.com/news/local/story/Pat-Down-at-Airport-Too-Up-Close-Too-Personal/81u8F_uhYkeLo_pg3NHWWA.cspx (http://www.13wham.com/news/local/story/Pat-Down-at-Airport-Too-Up-Close-Too-Personal/81u8F_uhYkeLo_pg3NHWWA.cspx)

Another source for the 2nd person mentioned in the infowars story. Not going for the first, radio DJ, makes a living blowing things out of proportion, pretty much pics or it didn't happen territory for me.

There oughta be a Godwin like law for use of Newsmanx, WND, MSNBC, or Alex Jones links.

The veracity of the "news" outlets does little to change the fact about how utterly corrupt and un-American the TSA is.


Title: Re: But the Nekkid Scanner Pics Aren't Saved!!!oneoneleventy1!
Post by: Regolith on November 16, 2010, 12:33:27 PM
Whether or not the machines can save the pictures, any idiot with a cellphone camera can make a copy.  They just have to get a clear picture of the screen.

I bet it's already been done.


Title: Re: But the Nekkid Scanner Pics Aren't Saved!!!oneoneleventy1!
Post by: vaskidmark on November 16, 2010, 02:17:17 PM
Whether or not the machines can save the pictures, any idiot with a cellphone camera can make a copy.  They just have to get a clear picture of the screen.

I bet it's already been done.

But it's against the law to take pictures of the scanner screen!

stay safe.


Title: Re: But the Nekkid Scanner Pics Aren't Saved!!!oneoneleventy1!
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 16, 2010, 02:27:22 PM
us marshalls at a courthouse does not equal tsa  i don't care how loud alex jones says it


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: Waitone on November 16, 2010, 02:30:45 PM
The story is perfectly consistent with past reports.  That said, I'll wait for more reliable outlets to confirm the story before I start writing letters.  IF THE STORY IS TRUE, we are looking at a deliberate provocation.  Not even fed.gov can be that stupid by concluding there will be no pushback.


Title: Re: But the Nekkid Scanner Pics Aren't Saved!!!oneoneleventy1!
Post by: S. Williamson on November 16, 2010, 02:55:14 PM
Ya know, the backscatter images from the Gizmodo video certainly didn't look all that detailed to me.  ???


Title: Re: But the Nekkid Scanner Pics Aren't Saved!!!oneoneleventy1!
Post by: kgbsquirrel on November 16, 2010, 03:10:04 PM
Ya know, the backscatter images from the Gizmodo video certainly didn't look all that detailed to me.  ???

Neither do our spy sat pictures that we give out to other people. There is such a thing as derezzing a picture or video.


Title: Re: But the Nekkid Scanner Pics Aren't Saved!!!oneoneleventy1!
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 16, 2010, 03:10:32 PM
Ya know, the backscatter images from the Gizmodo video certainly didn't look all that detailed to me.  ???

They admit that.

But if you read the article...

Quote
A Gizmodo investigation has revealed 100 of the photographs saved by the Gen 2 millimeter wave scanner from Brijot Imaging Systems, Inc., obtained by a FOIA request after it was recently revealed that U.S. Marshals operating the machine in the Orlando, Florida courthouse had improperly-perhaps illegally-saved images of the scans of public servants and private citizens.

Quote
While the fidelity of the scans from this machine are of surprisingly low resolution, especially compared to the higher resolution "naked scanners" using the potentially harmful x-ray backscatter technology, the TSA and other government agencies have repeatedly touted the quality of "Advanced Imaging Technology" while simultaneously assuring customers that operators "cannot store, print, transmit or save the image, and the image."


Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: Sergeant Bob on November 16, 2010, 03:49:22 PM
(http://cdn1.spong.com/news/g/o/gordonfree280821/_-Gordon-Freeman-on-the-Case-Large-Hadron-Collider-Safe-_.jpg)

ZOMG!!!1111! It's Gordon Freeman! Might have to reinstall that game.


Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: zahc on November 16, 2010, 04:53:27 PM
Quote
The Government: Your Enemy

There's not even a need to be over-dramatic about it. People just need to realize that in the same way that a corporations' major motivation is to increase its shareholder value, a government's major motivation is to extend and increase its sphere of power and influence. Period.

Products might claim to be able to help you, but they really only exist to separate you from your money. If the company could not make a profit off of you, the product would never be offered. The government might claim to be able to help you, but really they only are doing it to increase their power over your or to extend their influence. If it didn't align with the prime directive, government has no real interest in you.


Title: Re: But the Nekkid Scanner Pics Aren't Saved!!!oneoneleventy1!
Post by: MechAg94 on November 16, 2010, 05:03:00 PM
us marshalls at a courthouse does not equal tsa  i don't care how loud alex jones says it
Yeah, they are probably much more qualified and more ethical. 


Title: Re: But the Nekkid Scanner Pics Aren't Saved!!!oneoneleventy1!
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 16, 2010, 05:22:47 PM
us marshalls at a courthouse does not equal tsa  i don't care how loud alex jones says it


That makes it okay, then.


Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: fistful on November 16, 2010, 06:06:03 PM
If this keeps up, won't people just stop flying, to the point that airlines pressure TSA to be less Ultraviolet* with the searching?

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet_%28film%29



Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: White Horseradish on November 16, 2010, 06:27:52 PM
If this keeps up, won't people just stop flying, to the point that airlines pressure TSA to be less Ultraviolet* with the searching?

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet_%28film%29


Actually, it's more Total Recall

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWIHv7a6luY


Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: Harold Tuttle on November 16, 2010, 07:17:08 PM
the proper response is for passengers to go zardoz in their travelling wear


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: zxcvbob on November 16, 2010, 07:21:17 PM
Perhaps the way to fight back is to ridicule the TSA monkey.  Psychological warfare:  "You must have the crappiest job in the world, handling people's balls all day.  How do you keep from just shooting yourself in the mornings?"  And of course, "Who's your daddy?"  (Use your imagination for other more degrading things to say to turn the tables on the halfwit who is trying to humilate *you*)



Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: RocketMan on November 16, 2010, 07:49:50 PM
the proper response is for passengers to go zardoz in their travelling wear

Taking it to the logical extreme, I suspect that flying cross country wearing nothing but a TSA-issued Tyvek suit is not all that far off.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: seeker_two on November 16, 2010, 07:59:26 PM
Wonder what would happen if you ID'd the TSA goons' cars and started putting Pedo-Bear stickers on them at random times.....


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: RocketMan on November 16, 2010, 08:00:21 PM
Wonder what would happen if you ID'd the TSA goons' cars and started putting Pedo-Bear stickers on them at random times.....

You, sir, are evil.  I like that.


Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: roo_ster on November 16, 2010, 08:03:51 PM
Considering some of the local gals working at our bases when Viet Nam was a big deal could smuggle out a 40mm HEDP round for a M79/M203 up their love canal, the only way to be sure no 'splosives get on a plane is a cavity search, "Deep, and hard."

FTR, I'm fairly certain a 40mmHEDP round going off in the cabin is going to bring down anything smaller than a jumbo jet.

Scratch that, even a cavity search will not find 'splosives that have been placed in the large intestine similar to the way a colonoscopy is performed.  No telling how much 'splosive one could store in the large intestine along with a radio receiver and detonator.


Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: Harold Tuttle on November 16, 2010, 08:14:08 PM
some one should show up with the tyvek suit over a borat thong and disrobe for the TSA


Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 16, 2010, 08:30:51 PM
At some point a risk/benefit assessment needs to be done.

Obviously we cannot secure ourselves against EVERY eventuality. No, no, no, we cannot. It's not possible.

Somewhere, in the near future, a person - maybe not even a terrorist - is going to smuggle something into a plane. A gun, a knife, something. Then there's going to be mucho media whining about HOW THAT WAS ALLOWED TO HAPPEN.

Somewhere, eventually, someone will commit a terrorist attack on a plane.  Maybe they will do it by smuggling weaponry on board. Maybe they will place an anti-aircraft landmine [these DO exist] near the runway. Maybe they will do a million other things. Maybe we will get lucky on that day and only one or two people will die. Maybe hundreds. I do not know.

Somewhere, one of two things will need to happen:

Either people - or a subgroup thereof - will put their foot down and decide that they'd rather live with, say, 1% annualized chance of a terrorist attack than sacrifice more liberty and property and prosperity to try and bring it down further.

Or the surveillance state will expand forever, and the terrorists would have won.


Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: kgbsquirrel on November 16, 2010, 08:58:34 PM
The Soviet's bankrupted themselves trying to keep pace with and ensure their security against us during the Cold War. The various violent Islamic groups are now doing the exact same thing to us, but for a whole lot cheaper on their end of the deal.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: fistful on November 16, 2010, 09:24:28 PM
Airports can dump the TSA and hire private screeners:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Amid-airport-anger_-GOP-takes-aim-at-screening-1576602-108259869.html

But that's never been tried before!  ;)

I wonder if there is any (reasonable) objection to both privatizing security AND letting airlines make all their own rules on what to allow on board. So Airline A goes for the full pat-down and X-ray, no nail clippers or toothpaste on board; while Airline B just checks the no-fly list and puts a weapons-clearing station next to the door. Let the market decide between A, B, or somewhere in the middle.

What y'all think?


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Doggy Daddy on November 16, 2010, 09:27:32 PM
Quote
What y'all think?

I think that's just a stupid idea.

Why would I want to clear my weapon?   =D

DD


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: RocketMan on November 16, 2010, 09:34:29 PM
I think that's just a stupid idea.

Why would I want to clear my weapon?   =D

DD

To switch over to your magazine of frangible ammunition, silly.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas on November 16, 2010, 09:36:52 PM
Perhaps the way to fight back is to ridicule the TSA monkey.  Psychological warfare:  "You must have the crappiest job in the world, handling people's balls all day.  How do you keep from just shooting yourself in the mornings?"  And of course, "Who's your daddy?"  (Use your imagination for other more degrading things to say to turn the tables on the halfwit who is trying to humilate *you*)
Wouldn't make any difference unless you ridiculed the head monkey. It's not like the rank-and-file guys said "hey, we're bored here. The lines get through too fast. We want to see more nekkid old people, and want to frisk people's fat rolls. Can you help us out?"


Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: Battle Monkey of Zardoz on November 16, 2010, 10:59:29 PM
I know have to fly, every 2 weeks.  TSA employees are just a ladder rung above "do you want fries with your burger".  They are arrogant, do not even know what professionalism is, and treat people worse that I have seen cattle treated. 

I hope the backlash grows.  The Thanksgiving plan is a start, but I dont think it will make a dent. 


Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: lupinus on November 17, 2010, 02:41:33 AM
When terrorists use a time delayed explosive in their anal cavity, will random cavity searches be required?

How about a few terrorists get on the same plane, all trained in CQB, and simply take over a plane full of sheep? If the 9/11 guys had no box cutters and just applied a few CQB techniques if anyone didn't fall in line would the end result have been different? If this happens will all passengers be required to wear locking restraints while on board?

You can't prevent every little thing some third world crazy can come up with. Hopefully the American public realizes that between the next season of American Idol premiers.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: jamisjockey on November 17, 2010, 05:03:36 AM
But that's never been tried before!  ;)

I wonder if there is any (reasonable) objection to both privatizing security AND letting airlines make all their own rules on what to allow on board. So Airline A goes for the full pat-down and X-ray, no nail clippers or toothpaste on board; while Airline B just checks the no-fly list and puts a weapons-clearing station next to the door. Let the market decide between A, B, or somewhere in the middle.

What y'all think?

Its how it should be.  The government has no right feeling my testicles.  If the airline wants to, thats between me and them. 


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Doggy Daddy on November 17, 2010, 05:06:45 AM
To switch over to your magazine of frangible ammunition, silly.

 :facepalm:  Of course!   [ar15]

DD


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: jamisjockey on November 17, 2010, 05:33:34 AM
You should read this thread on this fishing board I'm on.  Friggin conservative fascits....its for the children....its for your own good....you're un american for fighting this....  :facepalm:


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: seeker_two on November 17, 2010, 05:37:49 AM
You should read this thread on this fishing board I'm on.  Friggin conservative fascits....its for the children....its for your own good....you're un american for fighting this....  :facepalm:

Fixed....I don't think the Founding Fathers would have supported any of this mess....but Hitler and Co. would have....


Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 17, 2010, 05:56:14 AM
Lupinus and kgbsquirrel are 100% spot-on.

At some point, we have to take responsibility for our own safety.

Heck "we" even did it for flight 93 once we realized it wasn't a typical hijacking.  "We" are 100% capable of defending a plane from any threats going forward, aside from the undefendable.  Anus/vaginal/surgical implant bombs, coercion or collaboration of TSA-cleared airline employees, things like that.

This isn't about security, though.  It's about cowing the public into submissive worker drones in the wake of the Tea Party elections.  The TSA complaints have been building in a manner that directly correlates to the political losses that the Obama administration has faced.  It wouldn't surprise me to find out about more intrusive civil liberties violations in other facets of public life, unrelated to the TSA but related to Federal programs some how.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 17, 2010, 06:06:01 AM
Fixed....I don't think the Founding Fathers would have supported any of this mess....but Hitler and Co. would have....

I don't think the FF's were conservative.

Conservative just means "wanting to maintain the status quo."  Look at the Stupid Party's track record, even.

Merriam Webster agrees with me:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conservative?show=0&t=1290002445

Quote
Definition of CONSERVATIVE
1
: preservative
2
a : of or relating to a philosophy of conservatism b capitalized : of or constituting a political party professing the principles of conservatism: as (1) : of or constituting a party of the United Kingdom advocating support of established institutions (2) : progressive conservative
3
a : tending or disposed to maintain existing views, conditions, or institutions : traditional b : marked by moderation or caution <a conservative estimate> c : marked by or relating to traditional norms of taste, elegance, style, or manners

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conservatism

Quote
Definition of CONSERVATISM
1
capitalized a : the principles and policies of a Conservative party b : the Conservative party
2
a : disposition in politics to preserve what is established b : a political philosophy based on tradition and social stability, stressing established institutions, and preferring gradual development to abrupt change; specifically : such a philosophy calling for lower taxes, limited government regulation of business and investing, a strong national defense, and individual financial responsibility for personal needs (as retirement income or health-care coverage)
3
: the tendency to prefer an existing or traditional situation to change

They weren't looking to protect existing institutions.  Unless you consider the a priori illegitimate self governing bodies of New England.  Which they didn't preserve, either.

You don't call yourself a Revolutionary, a Patriot, and a High Minded Son of Liberty... and call yourself a Conservative at the same time.

"A Liberal is just a Conservative that hasn't made any money yet."

"A Conservative is just a Libertarian that hasn't been wronged by the State yet."


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: MechAg94 on November 17, 2010, 06:07:07 AM
To switch over to your magazine of frangible ammunition, silly.
Do you really think that aluminum skin of a jet liner will stop frangible ammo?  

The testing I have seen shows that a little bullet hole won't bother the jet or even the windows anyway.  Just puts a little hole in them.  Better to make sure you use good HP's and hit your target.  

Or if that don't work, bring a gas mask and a couple tear gas canisters.  :)  


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: MechAg94 on November 17, 2010, 06:12:33 AM
You don't call yourself a Revolutionary, a Patriot, and a High Minded Son of Liberty... and call yourself a Conservative at the same time.
True, if you want to use 100 year old definitions of the words.  By that measure, you wouldn't call Democrats liberal or progressive either.  They would just be hard left socialists of one stripe or another.  The modern use of those words today is very skewed from the dictionary definition.  I seriously doubt abortion ever entered the picture for the FF's either, but some people today think conservative means "pro-life". 


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: De Selby on November 17, 2010, 06:21:07 AM
Wow - this is insane.  I took my last flight on a commercial carrier with carry on only, and I got to take all the liquids and water I wanted.  No one asked me for a ticket to pass through security, I left my shoes on, and no one touched me. 

We're becoming an international laughing stock.



Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 17, 2010, 06:22:03 AM
It's about cowing the public into submissive worker drones in the wake of the Tea Party elections. 
 [tinfoil] [popcorn] >:D :facepalm:


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Tallpine on November 17, 2010, 07:23:39 AM
I'm not particularly laughing  =(


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Ben on November 17, 2010, 07:24:20 AM
You should read this thread on this fishing board I'm on.  Friggin conservative fascits....its for the children....its for your own good....you're un american for fighting this....  :facepalm:

I've seen this same stuff from "conservatives" and it's making me sick. I expect the "it will make us safe" "Let's ban X,Y &Z for our own good" crap from progressives, but I never thought so many conservatives would think this is okay. In conversations I have had on this topic, I've actually found more common ground with people on the left than with people on the right.

I've always considered myself a Republitarian, averaging around 60-70% Republican and 30-40% libertarian. Those numbers are rapidly reversing.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: roo_ster on November 17, 2010, 07:30:42 AM
Iowahawk has unearthed the TSA's theme song, "Comply With Me." 

It was composed to the same score used by "Come Fly With Me" sung most famously by Frank Sinatra.

http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2010/11/comply-with-me.html


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: adively on November 17, 2010, 07:44:12 AM
4 page document signed by some very knowledgeable PhDs and MDs about the effects of the TSA Backscatter Xray machines.
http://www.npr.org/assets/news/2010/05/17/concern.pdf (http://www.npr.org/assets/news/2010/05/17/concern.pdf)


Title: Re: But the Nekkid Scanner Pics Aren't Saved!!!oneoneleventy1!
Post by: jamisjockey on November 17, 2010, 08:10:00 AM
us marshalls at a courthouse does not equal tsa  i don't care how loud alex jones says it

The TSA has promised us the images can't be saved.  Same machines.


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: jamisjockey on November 17, 2010, 08:12:10 AM
How about video of a TSA worker looking into a 3 year old's pants?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN6pJ7nP1yA


Title: Re: But the Nekkid Scanner Pics Aren't Saved!!!oneoneleventy1!
Post by: RevDisk on November 17, 2010, 09:02:52 AM
The TSA has promised us the images can't be saved.  Same machines.


No, they promised "won't".  They required in the procurement requirements that the images can be saved and transmitted.  Otherwise the machine isn't meeting the contract requirements and the vendor could face a lawsuit.


Title: Re: The Government: Your Enemy
Post by: longeyes on November 17, 2010, 09:26:13 AM
from Leonard Cohen's "The Future:"

Give me back my broken night
my mirrored room, my secret life
it's lonely here,
there's no one left to torture
Give me absolute control
over every living soul
And lie beside me, baby,
that's an order!
Give me crack and anal sex
Take the only tree that's left
and stuff it up the hole
in your culture
Give me back the Berlin wall
give me Stalin and St Paul
I've seen the future, brother:
it is murder.

Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won't be nothing
Nothing you can measure anymore
The blizzard, the blizzard of the world
has crossed the threshold
and it has overturned
the order of the soul
When they said REPENT REPENT
I wonder what they meant
When they said REPENT REPENT
I wonder what they meant
When they said REPENT REPENT
I wonder what they meant

You don't know me from the wind
you never will, you never did
I'm the little jew
who wrote the Bible
I've seen the nations rise and fall
I've heard their stories, heard them all
but love's the only engine of survival
Your servant here, he has been told
to say it clear, to say it cold:
It's over, it ain't going
any further
And now the wheels of heaven stop
you feel the devil's riding crop
Get ready for the future:
it is murder

Things are going to slide ...

There'll be the breaking of the ancient
western code
Your private life will suddenly explode
There'll be phantoms
There'll be fires on the road
and the white man dancing
You'll see a woman
hanging upside down
her features covered by her fallen gown
and all the lousy little poets
coming round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson
and the white man dancin'

Give me back the Berlin wall
Give me Stalin and St Paul
Give me Christ
or give me Hiroshima
Destroy another fetus now
We don't like children anyhow
I've seen the future, baby:
it is murder

Things are going to slide ...

When they said REPENT REPENT


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: TommyGunn on November 17, 2010, 09:33:35 AM
I don't think the FF's were conservative.

Conservative just means "wanting to maintain the status quo."  Look at the Stupid Party's track record, even.   ......     They weren't looking to protect existing institutions.  Unless you consider the a priori illegitimate self governing bodies of New England.  Which they didn't preserve, either.

You don't call yourself a Revolutionary, a Patriot, and a High Minded Son of Liberty... and call yourself a Conservative at the same time....

You are right; by our standards.   The term "liberal" today is NOT the same as what the founders would think and neither is "conservative."   We (or atleast myself) consider ourselves "conservative" because we want to "conserve" what the founders gave us.  NOT what King George considered "good" :O  government.   I do disagree with your last sentence; you can consider yourself a patriot and a conservative.  You can also consider yourself "a High Minded Son of Liberty" and a patriot.  Now, the "revolutionary" part ... yeah, that doesn't go too well with "conservative", does it? ;/ =D
But the earlier were primarily a matter of opinion.  


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: seeker_two on November 17, 2010, 09:35:17 AM
You are right; by our standards.   The term "liberal" today is NOT the same as what the founders would think and neither is "conservative."   We (or atleast myself) consider ourselves "conservative" because we want to "conserve" what the founders gave us.  NOT what King George considered "good" :O  government.   I do disagree with your last sentence; you can consider yourself a patriot and a conservative.  You can also consider yourself "a High Minded Son of Liberty" and a patriot.  Now, the "revolutionary" part ... yeah, that doesn't go too well with "conservative", does it? ;/ =D
But the earlier were primarily a matter of opinion.  

This.....


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: CNYCacher on November 17, 2010, 09:43:17 AM
Wow - this is insane.  I took my last flight on a commercial carrier with carry on only, and I got to take all the liquids and water I wanted.  No one asked me for a ticket to pass through security, I left my shoes on, and no one touched me. 

In very early September 2001, I flew from Minneapolis to Syracuse and the kid next to me had a Sumurai sword as a carry-on.  I was there when he went through security as well.  "But it isn't even sharpened, it's just a training blade." from his mother won her an "Oh, alright, be careful with it!" from the security guy.

How far we've fallen.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Pharmacology on November 17, 2010, 09:45:26 AM
I should disagree; there is nothing left to conserve.
The old country is dead and gone due to complacency, and we're striving to make something new.

That is why the tea party, in all of its ridiculous showmanship, is having an effect.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: roo_ster on November 17, 2010, 10:12:03 AM
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_ifsRjdJE1Jg/TOQaeQOUmHI/AAAAAAAAAoY/ItY_7Ch8UDo/s800/z_tsa_checkpoint.png)


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: P5 Guy on November 17, 2010, 10:13:14 AM
I stopped flying when they started increasing the number of seats by making them smaller and closer together. Add to that the fees and loss of eats. Noway will I be in an airport anytime soon. I hope they don't start with trains and busses. [ar15]


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Seenterman on November 17, 2010, 10:38:52 AM
What would happen if I as a male asked for a female to do the "pat down"? That would be much more comfortable for me as I've conditioned myself to allow for females touching my junk, =D but another guy trying to touch my junk :O  , well I'm gonna have a much bigger problem with that.



Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: Strings on November 17, 2010, 12:17:05 PM
I've been avoiding any of the videos of the TSA checking out kids. NOT something I would be able to sit by and watch...


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: longeyes on November 17, 2010, 01:15:39 PM
Politics and perversity merged a while back.  Enjoy.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 17, 2010, 01:24:13 PM
4 page document signed by some very knowledgeable PhDs and MDs about the effects of the TSA Backscatter Xray machines.
http://www.npr.org/assets/news/2010/05/17/concern.pdf (http://www.npr.org/assets/news/2010/05/17/concern.pdf)


4 guys at u of sf?  thats a sampling.... ask em how much radiation you get on the flight itself at 35 k feet  and compare the amounts


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: adively on November 17, 2010, 01:28:39 PM

4 guys at u of sf?  thats a sampling.... ask em how much radiation you get on the flight itself at 35 k feet  and compare the amounts

Did you bother to read the document?


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: dogmush on November 17, 2010, 01:47:42 PM
Did you bother to read the document?

Since it doesn't appear to be copyrighted, let me help him out.

Quote
The X-ray dose from these devices has often been compared in the media to the cosmic
ray exposure inherent to airplane travel or that of a chest X-ray. However, this
comparison is very misleading: both the air travel cosmic ray exposure and chest Xrays
have much higher X-ray energies and the health consequences are appropriately
understood in terms of the whole body volume dose. In contrast, these new airport
scanners are largely depositing their energy into the skin and immediately adjacent
tissue, and since this is such a small fraction of body weight/vol, possibly by one to two
orders of magnitude, the real dose to the skin is now high.


In addition, it appears that real independent safety data do not exist. A search,
ultimately finding top FDA radiation physics staff, suggests that the relevant radiation
quantity, the Flux [photons per unit area and time (because this is a scanning device)]
has not been characterized.
Instead an indirect test (Air Kerma) was made that
emphasized the whole body exposure value, and thus it appears that the danger is low
when compared to cosmic rays during airplane travel and a chest X-ray dose.

Bolding mine.  The crux seems to be no real studies have been done.  We just have the TSA's promise that their machines are safe.  Just like the promise that they can't store images......


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: BridgeRunner on November 17, 2010, 01:58:16 PM
Bolding mine.  The crux seems to be no real studies have been done.  We just have the TSA's promise that their machines are safe.  Just like the promise that they can't store images......

But..but...no one has EVER been hurt by using cool new radiation technologies without adequate safety studies.  ;/

This was and is my biggest objection to the things.  I don't care much about who sees me nekkid, I spend too much time in locker rooms and running shorts, but I have a big problem with the whole touching thing.  If forced to fly, I'd probably pick the frisking over the scanner because of radiation concerns, and deal with it, but in the past it would not have been so easy. 

I wonder how many people who have experienced sexual abuse or rape end up little messy puddles on the floor after this enhanced fondling procedure?  I know quite a few people who simply could not handle it at all.   


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 17, 2010, 03:33:52 PM
looking into a 3 year old's pants?


i watched it twice  where did that happen?  i hope you aren't using .33?


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 17, 2010, 03:43:51 PM
: both the air travel cosmic ray exposure and chest Xrays
have much higher X-ray energies and the health consequences are appropriately
understood in terms of the whole body volume dose



the real dose to the skin is now high.

how high is it?  we have four "experts" at one school surely one of em can come closer than 1 to 2 orders of magnitude? thats a pretty broad range to toss a swag at.   especially since the flight itself is characterized as one order of magnitude higher than the scan


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: adively on November 17, 2010, 04:14:48 PM
: both the air travel cosmic ray exposure and chest Xrays
have much higher X-ray energies and the health consequences are appropriately
understood in terms of the whole body volume dose



the real dose to the skin is now high.

how high is it?  we have four "experts" at one school surely one of em can come closer than 1 to 2 orders of magnitude? thats a pretty broad range to toss a swag at.   especially since the flight itself is characterized as one order of magnitude higher than the scan

The reason for the swag:
Quote
In summary, if the key data (flux-integrated photons per unit values) were available, it would be straightforward to accurately model the dose being deposited in the skin and adjacent tissues using available computer codes, which would resolve the potential concerns over radiation damage.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: kgbsquirrel on November 17, 2010, 04:15:36 PM
To the conservative/liberal conversation, what do you you all think would be a more accurate descriptor of those two political ideologies in their current form? Communist-Socialist and National-Socialist are just a couple that immediately spring to mind, but I haven't thought into it much yet, does anyone have anything more insightful to offer?


4 page document signed by some very knowledgeable PhDs and MDs about the effects of the TSA Backscatter Xray machines.
http://www.npr.org/assets/news/2010/05/17/concern.pdf (http://www.npr.org/assets/news/2010/05/17/concern.pdf)

I think it might be a sign of the apocalypse that I'm agreeing with anything coming out of the San Fran area. I've been trying to talk to some friends about excess exposure courtesy these devices and have been continually blown off due to the line "it's less than a chest x-ray." Perhaps now some will actually listen. (In the interests of honest representation, the whole of my radiological exposure training comes from a combination of general Navy CBR training, shipboard damage control specific to radiological contamination and working with high-power RF emitters.)


how high is it?  we have four "experts" at one school surely one of em can come closer than 1 to 2 orders of magnitude? thats a pretty broad range to toss a swag at.   especially since the flight itself is characterized as one order of magnitude higher than the scan

Wow. Just wow. Are you really trying to imply that four doctors who have spun their entire lives around the study of radiation exposure and it's effects on biology in general and humans specifically would know nothing of this subject? Might I ask what breadth and depth of knowledge you draw upon in order to assert in any form that they may be wrong? Even lacking my own current knowledge base, I would take the word of these four people over every TSA security drone, PR flak and administrator, combined.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: dogmush on November 17, 2010, 04:24:38 PM
how high is it?  we have four "experts" at one school surely one of em can come closer than 1 to 2 orders of magnitude? thats a pretty broad range to toss a swag at.   especially since the flight itself is characterized as one order of magnitude higher than the scan

How many Lumens are hitting my skin right now?

I'm not going to give you any info beyond I have a computer monitor some incandecent's, some CFL's and a LED.  Anything beyond that is either propritery, or sensitive because of terrorists.  How much light?

You can't tell?  Even a range? well, I guess you're a fool and we can dismiss anything you say.

See the parallel?  The information needed to accuratlly tell the answer to your question isin't being released.  And I mentioned TSA's credibility.  So unless you have a doctorate in radiation, or can come up with a credible reason these four folks with doctorates are wrong........... you're APS' version of WND on this subject.  =D ;)


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: zahc on November 17, 2010, 04:34:33 PM

Quote
4 guys at u of sf?  thats a sampling.... ask em how much radiation you get on the flight itself at 35 k feet  and compare the amounts

The principle difference is that radiation endured during the flight itself comes from space and the person's own cost/benefit calculation and consent. The radiation from the backscatter machines comes from the government imposing it on the populous. To me, the relative amounts don't even matter. But hey, who needs principles anyway.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 17, 2010, 04:40:27 PM
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60553920100106

But the radiation levels are well below the threshold that could be considered a risk to an individual's health, said Dr. James Thrall of the American College of Radiology and chief of radiology at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston.

"All of the concerns that we have about the medical use of X-rays really don't apply to these devices," Thrall said in a telephone interview.

"The exposure is extremely low and the energy of the X-rays is also very, very low," he said.

"When X-rays are used for medical imaging purposes, they have to be energetic enough to get through the human body. The X-rays used in the backscatter machines in airports have such low energy that they literally bounce off the skin. That is what backscatter implies," Thrall said.



As for the actual radiation dose, he said the typical backscatter machines deliver about 0.1 microsevert of radiation. The average chest X-ray, by comparison, delivers 100 microseverts of radiation, and a chest computed tomography or CT scan delivers 10,000 microseverts.

According to the Transportation Security Administration website, the radiation dose from a single scan on a backscatter machine is the equivalent of two minutes of flying on an airplane.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: zahc on November 17, 2010, 04:44:16 PM
Irrelevant. So what if the radiation dose is equal to 1/100th of a chest xray or whatever. Chest xrays are voluntary, and undergone for good reasons--different reasons than "because the TSA wants to play pervert".  1/100th of a government-imposed xray is too much. There is no amount of radiation that is acceptable for the government to impose on the populace. .00001mg of ricin intravenously, per day, might be completely harmless, but it is not acceptable for the government to force people to take that much. Or any amount.  Period.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 17, 2010, 04:50:57 PM
http://pagingdrgupta.blogs.cnn.com/2010/01/07/could-airport-scanners-give-too-much-radiation/

http://hps.org/publicinformation/ate/faqs/effectsandsecurityscreening.html

http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/11/16/5477568-are-airport-x-ray-scanners-harmful?GT1=43001


heres what the 4 sf docs said
We are unanimous in believing that the potential health consequences need to be rigorously studied before these scanners are adopted," the panel wrote. "Modifications that reduce radiation exposure need to be explored as soon as possible."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/travel/2010/11/17/2010-11-17_forget_privacy__experts_at_odds_over_whether_airport_body_scanners_are_safe_.html#ixzz15agax6xW


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: lupinus on November 17, 2010, 04:57:37 PM
looking into a 3 year old's pants?


i watched it twice  where did that happen?  i hope you aren't using .33?
Yes around the 30 second mark does look rather like it.

Irregardless, WTF purpose does it serve to give a detailed wanding to a three year old?


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 17, 2010, 05:18:47 PM
Yes around the 30 second mark does look rather like it.

Irregardless, WTF purpose does it serve to give a detailed wanding to a three year old?

calling that looking in the kids pants is a reach


http://hillbuzz.org/2009/12/28/could-the-underwear-bomb-herald-the-coming-diaper-bomb/


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: lupinus on November 17, 2010, 05:28:14 PM
calling that looking in the kids pants is a reach


http://hillbuzz.org/2009/12/28/could-the-underwear-bomb-herald-the-coming-diaper-bomb/
Maybe, but if that's my kid I don't care if the TSA guys takes a quick peak or makes sure to thoroughly examine his johnson, the SOAB still looked down my kids pants.

And so what if the remote minuscule chance is there? They are just as likely, probably more so, to use the anal or vaginal cavity to hide an explosive set on some sort of delay. Should a woman have to submit to being raped? I mean, after all, there might be a bomb up there.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 17, 2010, 05:31:34 PM
True, if you want to use 100 year old definitions of the words.  By that measure, you wouldn't call Democrats liberal or progressive either. 

100 years ago, the Progressive movement was already socialist.


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: Ron on November 17, 2010, 05:44:24 PM
Yes around the 30 second mark does look rather like it.

Irregardless, WTF purpose does it serve to give a detailed wanding to a three year old?

When they are adults it will seem the normal way to be treated. Teach em young.


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: jamisjockey on November 17, 2010, 05:58:43 PM
calling that looking in the kids pants is a reach


http://hillbuzz.org/2009/12/28/could-the-underwear-bomb-herald-the-coming-diaper-bomb/

No, its not.  Even a quick peek at the kids diaper/underwear is going too far.

Where in the *expletive deleted*ck are we headed as a nation that this is even remotely accepted?


Title: Re: But the Nekkid Scanner Pics Aren't Saved!!!oneoneleventy1!
Post by: jamisjockey on November 17, 2010, 06:05:18 PM
No, they promised "won't".  They required in the procurement requirements that the images can be saved and transmitted.  Otherwise the machine isn't meeting the contract requirements and the vendor could face a lawsuit.

Nyet.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2010-11-15-column15_ST1_N.htm

"The imaging technology that we use cannot store, export, print or transmit images."

You and I both know she is lying.  But the depth of the lie makes it even worse. 


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: lupinus on November 17, 2010, 06:07:37 PM
Where in the *expletive deleted* are we headed as a nation that this is even remotely accepted?
I think we already know the answer, and it's a depressing one indeed.

Most of this outrage will fade as soon as the next season of American Idol or Lost or whatever the hell show people are currently zombified to rolls around to it's newest season.

If it doesn't maybe there is still some hope for America, but I will be mighty surprised.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: roo_ster on November 17, 2010, 06:44:12 PM
CSD:

Bottom line WRT the risk level of these two types of machines(1) is that TSA has not released enough data to rule out significant risk.  The released data leave large holes for assumptions & estimates, not to mention the means in which they are applying the radiation in question.  Anyone with only the data that has been released who says, "no worries" is no more valid than those saying there is significant risk(2) & (3).


FTR, my degree is in physics and I do a bit of work with RF, IR, and other non-visible wavelength emitters & detectors.  To be more specific, I model them.  To do so, I need some pertinent bits of information about them.  Without those bits, I can not determine their effects/effectiveness.  In the current brouhaha, I could do some of the pertinent calculations...given the data. 

Right now we have the TSA saying "trust me" after the EPA can ruled x-ray radiation a cancer risk and with little understanding of the effects of mm wave radiation on humans.




(1)  That I know of.  Backscatter X rays and millimeter wave. 

(2) A couple of fellows I know who left my employer for greener pastures liken the risk of death by cancer from one of the x-ray devices as roughly equivalent to being killed by a terrorist.  Pretty darned small.  BUt, if one is doing risk analysis, the net to the flying public is a wash: no reduction in total risk, just trade cancer risks down the road for lower death by terrorist risk toady (assuming the x-ray device completely eliminates the risk of death by terrorists for that flight).

(3)  The risks for the mm wave devices is a BIG unknown.  There has been little testing done, but the simulations show some ugly results.  Much more testing on live critters really ought to be done before subjecting the general public to thalidomide mm wave radiation.

This might help:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8a/Electromagnetic-Spectrum.png/395px-Electromagnetic-Spectrum.png)


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: RocketMan on November 17, 2010, 07:02:21 PM
Do you really think that aluminum skin of a jet liner will stop frangible ammo?

Not really. But there is a lot of other stuff tacked onto the inside of a modern aircraft's hull that might stop frangible ammunition.
But I'm with you about the actual necessity of using it.  It takes a really big hole to have an explosive decompression in an aircraft at high altitude.  And if you have a really big hole in your airplane, methinks you have other, more important problems to deal with.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: adively on November 17, 2010, 07:04:33 PM
Not really. But there is a lot of other stuff tacked onto the inside of a modern aircraft's hull that might stop frangible ammunition.
But I'm with you about the actual necessity of using it.  It takes a really big hole to have an explosive decompression in an aircraft at high altitude.  And if you have a really big hole in your airplane, methinks you have other, more important problems to deal with.

Do you mean the Hollyweird has been lying to me all this time?   ;/


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: fistful on November 17, 2010, 07:07:20 PM
True, if you want to use 100 year old definitions of the words.  By that measure, you wouldn't call Democrats liberal or progressive either. 

And I don't.


  I don't care much about who sees me nekkid, 

Pics or I call BS.  :P


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: seeker_two on November 17, 2010, 07:37:53 PM

Pics or I call BS.  :P

If fistful starts a "Nude APS Members" thread, I motion that we nuke his site from orbit....


Title: Re: But the Nekkid Scanner Pics Aren't Saved!!!oneoneleventy1!
Post by: RevDisk on November 17, 2010, 08:48:19 PM
Nyet.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2010-11-15-column15_ST1_N.htm

"The imaging technology that we use cannot store, export, print or transmit images."

You and I both know she is lying.  But the depth of the lie makes it even worse. 


http://epic.org/open_gov/foia/TSA_Procurement_Specs.pdf

3.1.1.2
3.1.1.3.1.2
3.1.1.5.1
and Appendix A.


Title: Re: But the Nekkid Scanner Pics Aren't Saved!!!oneoneleventy1!
Post by: Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas on November 17, 2010, 08:55:43 PM
A TSA guy called in to Rush and mentioned that the pictures could be saved, but weren't supposed to be (unless there was a weapon or other item detected, I guess).


Title: Re: But the Nekkid Scanner Pics Aren't Saved!!!oneoneleventy1!
Post by: MillCreek on November 17, 2010, 09:00:28 PM
Nyet.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2010-11-15-column15_ST1_N.htm

"The imaging technology that we use cannot store, export, print or transmit images."

You and I both know she is lying.  But the depth of the lie makes it even worse. 


This leaves the field wide open on the issue of storing, exporting, printing or transmitting 'data' or 'files'.  Technically speaking, it is not an image until the software assembles the bits and bytes into an image.


Title: Re: But the Nekkid Scanner Pics Aren't Saved!!!oneoneleventy1!
Post by: jamisjockey on November 17, 2010, 09:23:44 PM
http://epic.org/open_gov/foia/TSA_Procurement_Specs.pdf

3.1.1.2
3.1.1.3.1.2
3.1.1.5.1
and Appendix A.

Oh yeah I saw that a long time ago.  Doesn't mean that Janet isn't a freaking liar.


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: French G. on November 17, 2010, 09:29:35 PM
So what are they going to do when somebody swallows a bunch of Semtex condoms with a cell phone detonator?


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: longeyes on November 17, 2010, 09:56:55 PM
When you count on terror to justify tyranny, you might just get more than you bargained for.  Arrogance blinds people.


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: Nitrogen on November 18, 2010, 12:08:35 AM
I might disagree with you guys on a lot, but i'm with many of you 100% on things like this, and that's why I'm still here :)

(about this being WAY TOO FAR and out of line, that is)


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Strings on November 18, 2010, 01:34:52 AM
Shouldn't we just nuke Fistful from orbit. Preemptively, as it were?


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: seeker_two on November 18, 2010, 02:55:56 AM
Shouldn't we just nuke Fistful from orbit. Preemptively, as it were?

To clarify, I meant "site" as in his physical location and surrounding area....maybe even the ajacent states...just to be sure....


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: jamisjockey on November 18, 2010, 05:08:39 AM
Not really. But there is a lot of other stuff tacked onto the inside of a modern aircraft's hull that might stop frangible ammunition.
But I'm with you about the actual necessity of using it.  It takes a really big hole to have an explosive decompression in an aircraft at high altitude.  And if you have a really big hole in your airplane, methinks you have other, more important problems to deal with.

Frangible ammo is probably more applicable to this situation due to the cramped quarters and probability that an overpenatration will result in hitting a passenger.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Fly320s on November 18, 2010, 06:00:08 AM
Stopping the threat is the goal. Modern JHPs do that better than frangible.  No agency that I know of uses frangible ammo on aircraft. 


Title: Re: But the Nekkid Scanner Pics Aren't Saved!!!oneoneleventy1!
Post by: SADShooter on November 18, 2010, 06:24:06 AM
Logically, wouldn't the capability have to be there in order to preserve evidence for a potential investigation/trial? I'm not condoning this, just pointing out any suggestion that it can't/won't be done seems silly.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Seenterman on November 18, 2010, 07:45:35 AM
Another totalitarian masking as a conservative, meet Emmett Tyrrell.

http://townhall.com/columnists/EmmettTyrrell/2010/11/18/pat_me,_pat_me/page/1

Quote
Yes, I blame the Drudge Report for this insane controversy about the use of high-tech body scanners and "pat-downs" at airport security zones.
Hello Emmett, meet the internet. Have a look around and you will find many other sites pissed off about this too.


Quote
How many more Americans would welcome a soothing pat-down midst the hurly-burly of travel at our nation's stress-filled airports I do not know, but count me in -- especially if the patter-downer is a cute little number on the order of, say, Sarah Palin.

Seriously WTF? A soothing pat down is he trying to be funny or does he actually think that? What if the patter-downer looks like Mr. T? Gonna be happy about getting patted down then? How about when Mr. T grabs your junk?

<Mr T's voice> I PITY THE FOOL THAT OPS OUT!</Mr T's voice>





Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: longeyes on November 18, 2010, 07:46:25 AM
We will do ANYTHING to avoid "profiling," anything to avoid doing what makes sense to win this war.  America should have mobilized nine years ago.  Our airports are the only place most Americans have any contact with The Great Unpleasantness.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Tallpine on November 18, 2010, 07:49:16 AM
So... what if you actually have something in your pants - like a zuchinni for instance?
(are vegetables illegal now?)

What do they do then  ???


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: CNYCacher on November 18, 2010, 08:00:41 AM
So... what if you actually have something in your pants - like a zuchinni for instance?
(are vegetables illegal now?)

What do they do then  ???

You trying to squash our freedom?


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: adively on November 18, 2010, 08:01:21 AM
Stopping the threat is the goal. Modern JHPs do that better than frangible.  No agency that I know of uses frangible ammo on aircraft. 

Fly320s, do you know what they recommend for the Flight Deck Officer program?  It would stand to reason that the Air Marshals would have a say as to what type of ammo is to be carried by an FDO.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: adively on November 18, 2010, 08:02:19 AM
So... what if you actually have something in your pants - like a zuchinni for instance?
(are vegetables illegal now?)

What do they do then  ???

How bad is the backscatter going to hurt the animal smuggling trade?


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: Tallpine on November 18, 2010, 08:07:26 AM
Quote
Should a woman have to submit to being raped? I mean, after all, there might be a bomb up there.

Coming soon to an airport near you  :mad:

Holiday season is coming up - time for a body cavity bomber  ;/


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Tallpine on November 18, 2010, 08:11:01 AM
You trying to squash our freedom?

It's a growing worry.  We must be garden against it.


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: longeyes on November 18, 2010, 08:39:56 AM
The sooner we accept the fact that we are going to lose planes, malls, even cities, the sooner we will go on the offensive and do what's necessary.

Instead of going door to door in Afghanistan we need to go door to door in the Riyadh Ritz-Carlton.


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 18, 2010, 08:45:29 AM
We will do ANYTHING to avoid "profiling," anything to avoid doing what makes sense to win this war.  America should have mobilized nine years ago.  Our airports are the only place most Americans have any contact with The Great Unpleasantness.


profiling carrys the seeds for fail


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: Ron on November 18, 2010, 08:54:33 AM

profiling carrys the seeds for fail

wouldn't want to derail the win we have going on now would we?


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: TommyGunn on November 18, 2010, 09:05:30 AM

profiling carrys the seeds for fail
???
What does that mean?

You do realize there are different ways to profile, and, that no "profile" has to remain static? 
The Israelis seem to have it right.  They don't have airplanes falling out of the sky every day.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: BridgeRunner on November 18, 2010, 09:15:23 AM
Pics or I call BS.  :P

Nekkid pics is not the same thing as nekkid.


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: adively on November 18, 2010, 09:21:18 AM
???
What does that mean?

You do realize there are different ways to profile, and, that no "profile" has to remain static? 
The Israelis seem to have it right.  They don't have airplanes falling out of the sky every day.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-high-security-little-bother (http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-high-security-little-bother)  Interesting article.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 18, 2010, 09:24:56 AM
Nekkid pics is not the same thing as nekkid.

Which, I think, will be eerily close to the government's defense of TSA nekkid machines.

"It's not REALLY a strip search, and you're not REALLY nekkid.  We're just looking through your clothes and bypassing the consent involved in having you disrobe."


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: CNYCacher on November 18, 2010, 09:36:58 AM
"Introducing the American Traveler Dignity Act"

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=39467

Go, Ron!


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 18, 2010, 09:47:17 AM
"Introducing the American Traveler Dignity Act"

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=39467

Go, Ron!

Everyone, write your critter!

Get 'em to co-sponsor.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 18, 2010, 09:59:36 AM
you guys need to get that video off gizmodo   letting folks actually see the images that are spawning the zomg isn't wotking well.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 18, 2010, 10:03:44 AM
My letter:

Quote
Mr. Flake:

I write you to urge that you co-sponsor the newly proposed legislation that Dr. Paul from TX has presented to the House:  The American Traveler Dignity Act.

I tell you now, that I have sworn off flying.  I have a good life and would very much like to travel and visit parts of our country I've yet to see.  DC, NY, the home of the American Revolution in Lexington and Concord...there are many places in this country I'd like to explore.

But I'm not setting one foot on airport property if I'm subject to a choice of:
1. Either being compelled to have naked pictures taken of me
2. or being groped by a sub-$10/hr high school dropout bureaucrat

I tell you now, I absolutely will not relent in this.  I'll get my private pilot's license before submitting to such debased treatment.

Please fix our airport security.  Implement behavioral profiling.  Eliminate the "thousands standing around."  Eliminate the blanket accusation that the American people are the problem in this matter.  Remove the Federal Government from the issue entirely, and present airline security as the duty of the private carrier.  Give me a choice as a consumer, if I want to go on Airline A and get sexually assaulted by a sub-$10/hr goon, or Airline B that implements behavioral profiling.

Please, Mr. Flake: Support and co-sponsor Dr. Paul's American Traveler Dignity Act.

Find your critter:

https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: roo_ster on November 18, 2010, 10:11:27 AM
Another totalitarian masking as a conservative, meet Emmett Tyrrell.

http://townhall.com/columnists/EmmettTyrrell/2010/11/18/pat_me,_pat_me/page/1
Hello Emmett, meet the internet. Have a look around and you will find many other sites pissed off about this too.


Seriously WTF? A soothing pat down is he trying to be funny or does he actually think that? What if the patter-downer looks like Mr. T? Gonna be happy about getting patted down then? How about when Mr. T grabs your junk?

<Mr T's voice> I PITY THE FOOL THAT OPS OUT!</Mr T's voice>

This.  Damned statists in conservative clothing.

Ron Paul in the House on this issue:
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/videoLibrary/clip.php?appid=599164944


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: CNYCacher on November 18, 2010, 10:37:43 AM
???
What does that mean?

You do realize there are different ways to profile, and, that no "profile" has to remain static? 
The Israelis seem to have it right.  They don't have airplanes falling out of the sky every day.

In fairness, neither do we.  Before the TSA, even


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: jamisjockey on November 18, 2010, 10:42:04 AM
This.  Damned statists in conservative clothing.

Ron Paul in the House on this issue:
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/videoLibrary/clip.php?appid=599164944

I could literally almost spit into Ron Paul's district from my house.  As soon as we're looking to buy, I'm going to really try to buy in his district.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: BrokenPaw on November 18, 2010, 10:52:30 AM
I wrote to my rep (Frank Wolf) using their web-form thingummy.

I was trying to use the word "alternative" in my message, and every time I wrote it, a dialog popped up telling me that, due to House regulations, I could not use the word "alter" in my message, and it edited it to spell it "al_ter".

So a couple things:
  • What sort of idiotic program thinks that "alternative" and "alter" are equivalent?
  • What sort of idiotic policy prohibits the use of the word "alter" in a message to a congressman?  Is it some sort of poor-man's SQL-injection filter?  I didn't use the words "insert", "drop", or "update" in my message; perhaps I should have, to see if they were on the Proscribed Words list, too.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Doggy Daddy on November 18, 2010, 10:54:50 AM
They probably meant to deny the word "altar" instead of "alter".

Separation of church and state, donchaknow.

DD


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: BrokenPaw on November 18, 2010, 11:00:06 AM
They probably meant to deny the word "altar" instead of "alter".
Separation of church and state, donchaknow.

I actually had that thought, too.  If you're right, then add a third item to my list:
  • What sort of idiotic web programmer fails to know the difference between "alter"(v) and "altar"(n)?


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: jamisjockey on November 18, 2010, 11:07:30 AM

profiling carrys the seeds for fail

I'm sure you're assuming all profiling is race based. 
El Al personnel are trained to sniff out things that just ain't right.  One way last minute cash flights. Nervous passengers.  No luggage.  Passport has all stamps from places that breed terrorists.
No, it ain't perfect. 
But here it is:
1) There is no Constitutional duty nor right for the Government to provide airport screening.
2) There is a right to not be subjected to unreasonable search and seizure
3) Criminals and suspects get frisked.  An American citizen flying should not be treated as an immediate suspect of a crime
4) The airline industry is a private enterprise.  The Government is interceding into a private transaction
5) Basic human dignity.  I should not have to worry about the TSA fondling my wife's boobs just so I can enter into a private contract with a private company to provide a service
6) Its an illusion of security. Checkpoints themselves are targets. And how long until we get a rectal-bomber? 
7) When is enough enough?
8) We were lied to, right to our faces.  They have told us they won't save the images. Lie.
9) The quality of TSA employees is suspect at best.  These people get to look at me naked?   ;/


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: sanglant on November 18, 2010, 11:11:39 AM
a pubic school grad? :laugh:






once more, spelling intentional. :P hey that one work on TSA employs as well. :laugh:


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 18, 2010, 11:18:24 AM
wouldn't want to derail the win we have going on now would we?

has someone blown up a plane recently i missed?


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 18, 2010, 11:26:48 AM
1) There is no Constitutional duty nor right for the Government to provide airport screening. air travel on a private carrier
2) There is a right to not be subjected to unreasonable search and seizure and the right to refuse to fly
3) Criminals and suspects get frisked.  An American citizen flying should not be treated as an immediate suspect of a crime
4) The airline industry is a private enterprise.  The Government is interceding into a private transaction and the airlines are a regulated industry subject to the whims and vagaries of our gov
5) Basic human dignity.  I should not have to worry about the TSA fondling my wife's boobs just so I can enter into a private contract with a private company to provide a service even if i know in advance the preconditions and what to expect?
6) Its an illusion of security. Checkpoints themselves are targets. And how long until we get a rectal-bomber? its all a game and illusion to a great degree  the idea is to make certain methods difficult enough to steer the whackjobs elsewhere
7) When is enough enough?
Cool We were lied to, right to our faces.  They have told us they won't save the images. Lie.the us marshalls at the court house are not tsa  do you have a case where tsa saved images outside their training mode as outlined in the specs you so kindly provided?
9) The quality of TSA employees is suspect at best.  These people get to look at me naked? serves em right! there isn't enough money in the world for that >:D  if the actual images shown in the gizmodo vid are real there is lil to worry about it would apear that the spec that requires enough distortion to preserve privacy and dignity is working  you have seen the actual images they showed?


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 18, 2010, 11:32:54 AM
CSD, I don't know how many times I have to tell you this...


The gizmodo pics of the Florida courthouse are using older tech.  However that tech is identical to what the TSA uses in some places, as well as the newer higher resolution machines.  Both devices have an SOP that dictates that no pics are to be saved.

But, these pics were obviously saved.

Ignore the quality of the images.

The fact that Gizmodo was able to obtain them at all is the concern.

They shouldn't exist in the first place.


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: Regolith on November 18, 2010, 11:39:56 AM
1)  The airlines aren't instituting these TSA programs.  The government is.  That makes it an unreasonable search and seizure under the 4th Amendment, because it's the government who is doing the searching, not private business.

2) Flying is the only way to travel without taking weeks or months out of your life in some instances (such as across the ocean), and the most efficient way for long distance travel.  There has been found to be a constitutional right to travel, and the US government can not get in the way of that, nor can they condition the ability to travel on the waiver of other constitutional rights. 

Saying that since you are free to travel via car, train or boat means that your right to travel isn't being interfered with is similar to saying that since you are free to defend yourself with a shotgun, banning pistols isn't a violation to your right to keep and bare arms. 


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Balog on November 18, 2010, 11:46:17 AM
I wrote to my rep (Frank Wolf) using their web-form thingummy.

I was trying to use the word "alternative" in my message, and every time I wrote it, a dialog popped up telling me that, due to House regulations, I could not use the word "alter" in my message, and it edited it to spell it "al_ter".

So a couple things:
  • What sort of idiotic program thinks that "alternative" and "alter" are equivalent?
  • What sort of idiotic policy prohibits the use of the word "alter" in a message to a congressman?  Is it some sort of poor-man's SQL-injection filter?  I didn't use the words "insert", "drop", or "update" in my message; perhaps I should have, to see if they were on the Proscribed Words list, too.

(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/exploits_of_a_mom.png)


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: BrokenPaw on November 18, 2010, 11:56:57 AM
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/exploits_of_a_mom.png)

Heh.  I was actually thinking of that strip when I posted.

As a web programmer, I understand the brown-trousers factor when it comes to allowing any J. Random User to store anything on your webserver.  But SQL-injection sanitization is really not all that hard, and if that's actually the reason that the website for the Congress is rejecting that word, then, well...somebody needs to find a new web coder.


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Hawkmoon on November 18, 2010, 12:12:33 PM
Stopping the threat is the goal. Modern JHPs do that better than frangible.  No agency that I know of uses frangible ammo on aircraft. 

Are you certain? You're a pilot and I'm not, but last I knew Federal air marshals WERE issued and DID carry frangible ammo ... and ONLY frangible ammo.

If that changed, when did it change?


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: Strings on November 18, 2010, 12:27:19 PM
Quote
These people get to look at me naked?

Trust me, Jamis: I'm sure no TSA agent (nor anyone else) wants to see YOU nekkid... :P


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 18, 2010, 12:28:12 PM
you can fly without the circus.  just not on the airlines   general aviation might be for you


is that a no to my question

do you have a case where tsa saved images outside their training mode as outlined in the specs you so kindly provided?


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: Angel Eyes on November 18, 2010, 12:29:36 PM
The plot thickens: San Francisco Bay Area prosecutors warn TSA about "touching the junk":

http://www.mercurynews.com/san-mateo-county/ci_16641946?nclick_check=1

Quote
As nearly 2 million holiday travelers pack Bay Area airports starting Friday, local prosecutors have a warning for overzealous security agents performing the new federal pat-down: touch passengers the wrong way, and we'll throw you in jail

More fun developments at the link.


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: Strings on November 18, 2010, 12:30:34 PM
Wait... when did San Fran suddenly get a brain cell?


Title: TSA: Sworn or unsworn?
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 18, 2010, 12:31:50 PM
Those guys who are rubbing down our junk and taking nekkid pictures of us:

Are they sworn LEOs?

My understanding is that they are low paid contract workers.  There are real sworn Federal (and state or city) LEOs near by, but it would take too many people at too high a pay grade to put sworn LEOs at every inspection point of an airport.

As such, are they legally empowered to even order you to allow them to touch you?

I basically consider them on par with a bouncer at a bar, or mall security.  I'm certainly not going to let either of those types frisk me.


Title: Re: TSA: Sworn or unsworn?
Post by: RevDisk on November 18, 2010, 12:33:59 PM
I basically consider them on par with a bouncer at a bar, or mall security.  I'm certainly not going to let either of those types frisk me.

They can bar you from entry.


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: Angel Eyes on November 18, 2010, 12:35:30 PM
Wait... when did San Fran suddenly get a brain cell?

It was actually San Mateo and Santa Clara county prosecutors, so we don't have proof of the above.   ;)


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 18, 2010, 12:39:09 PM
Wait... when did San Fran suddenly get a brain cell?

The most likely place in the US where guy-guy pat-downs are going to elicit either a homoerotic or homophobic response.  Either the passenger is gay and doesn't like being touched by a straight, or the TSA agent is gay and perceived as being unprofessional with the pat-downs.

Most of the US has a gay population around 8-10%, and San Fran is around 15%.  The odds of a gay TSA agent breaking down the TSA structure of girl-girl and guy-guy pat-downs increases significantly there.

Oh!  Oh!  EOE problems!  Can a gay be a TSA inspection officer at the airport and do pat-downs, given our current rules?


Title: Re: TSA: Sworn or unsworn?
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 18, 2010, 12:41:38 PM
They can bar you from entry.

But the argument against "Don't touch my junk" guy is that he wanted to leave after already initiating the screening procedure and declining to allow further (bodily) inspection.

If TSA agents are not sworn, they cannot arrest you.

If you're not under arrest, then you're free to go.

Via that logic, TSA agents cannot compel you to allow them to touch you... if they aren't sworn LEO.


Title: Re: TSA: Sworn or unsworn?
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 18, 2010, 12:45:51 PM
But the argument against "Don't touch my junk" guy is that he wanted to leave after already initiating the screening procedure and declining to allow further (bodily) inspection.

If TSA agents are not sworn, they cannot arrest you.

If you're not under arrest, then you're free to go.

Via that logic, TSA agents cannot compel you to allow them to touch you... if they aren't sworn LEO.

the tsa guys call real cops  they arrest you   i hate to admit that the 9th circuits opinion on this makes sense but in the tradition of blind pigs and acorns they got this one right


Title: Re: TSA: Sworn or unsworn?
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 18, 2010, 12:53:40 PM
the tsa guys call real cops  they arrest you   i hate to admit that the 9th circuits opinion on this makes sense but in the tradition of blind pigs and acorns they got this one right

That's fine, real cops can cite either "probable cause" or "reasonable suspicion" and initiate a pat-down after I get their badge and their reason for cause/suspicion.  They can then tell the TSA agent that I am clean, or not, and I can either continue down the concourse, or be led back to the ticket counter to try for a refund.

Then I can file a complaint against the officer for finding a "probable cause" that I had contraband, simply because I didn't cede my 4th amendment rights to a nonsworn worker drone.  Cops can't just randomly search people.  No reason for unsworn TSA worker drones to do so either.

(If I choose to fly at all).

But, ceding the fact that non-sworn TSA worker drones have the power to compel a strip search or pat down is something I cannot do.


Title: Re: TSA: Sworn or unsworn?
Post by: BrokenPaw on November 18, 2010, 12:58:47 PM
the tsa guys call real cops  they arrest you   i hate to admit that the 9th circuits opinion on this makes sense but in the tradition of blind pigs and acorns they got this one right

It was my understanding that all he was trying to do was leave, right?  He wasn't trying to get past the security gate without being inspected, he decided that the inspection was too much, and he decided to leave.

If that's the case, then on what  grounds could he be arrested?

The only reason the TSA minions have the power to search is because it's a condition of entry to the "secure" area.  If you are no longer trying to enter that area, they no longer have any reason to search you, and no reason to compel you to stay for a search.  To call the cops on him for trying to leave is like trying to call the cops on someone who almost stepped on your property, and having them arrest him for "leaving after failing to trespass".


Title: Re: TSA: Sworn or unsworn?
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 18, 2010, 01:16:34 PM
The technical legality arguments are not going to stop the TSA madness.

The only way it will genuinely stop - rather than be reorganized temporarily along some new lines to assuage public anger and then continue again - is if the public alters its cost/risk analysis of the situation. If there will be an understanding that there is only that much people are willing to pay in time lost, dignity lost, money lost - over the practically non-existent, statistically, terrorist threat, then the madness will end. If people are still willing to forfeit rights, freedoms, time, money, honor, dignity, sanity itself whenever the magical word TERRORISM is uttered, then the best the current uproar will accomplish is a rearranging of the proverbial deck chairs.


Title: Re: TSA: Sworn or unsworn?
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 18, 2010, 01:20:08 PM
Before CSD gets tunnel vision here, I want to say for his benefit regarding the 9th Circus decision:

Not my intent to leave without getting pat down if a pat down is dictated by the bureaucratic dingleberries.

My intent is to not allow the TSA drone to do the pat-down.  Since he's not sworn.

I acknowledge his ability to block me from entering the secure area, much like a bar bouncer can block access to a bar, or a mall security guard can issue a trespass warning.

I don't acknowledge his perceived power to lay hands on me.  If court precedent says I cannot leave without a pat-down since I "could" be a terrorist that's trying to game the system, so be it.  A sworn LEO can do it.

I guess my intent is to float an addendum to the "Opt Out" day that dictates that passengers:
1. Opt out of nekkid scans
2. Prohibit TSA GED goons @$10/hr from touching them
3. Demand (with legal justification) that any pat-down is done by sworn LEO.

This will shatter the system, IMO.


Title: Re: TSA: Sworn or unsworn?
Post by: jamisjockey on November 18, 2010, 01:44:49 PM
TSA agents are .gov workers but are not sworn officers.


Title: Re: TSA: Sworn or unsworn?
Post by: vaskidmark on November 18, 2010, 01:57:02 PM
As I understand the situation, it's really not the status of the goon groping you that is the crux of the problem.

Congress, in it's infinite wisdom  [barf] passed a law saying that TSA exists and can establish rules you have to comply with if you want to fly commercial aviation.  Under that law, TSA did in fact establish regs that call for nekkid pictures that cause cancer or being groped.  Nobody being groped is being accused of a criminal act until/unless the groping "discovers" an object where it probably sjouldn't be.

If getting groped caused the TSA prevert [sic - intentional spelling - ask me later for the backstory] to find somethiong they will call real cops to deal with the 4th Amendment search & seizure (or is it seizure & search?).

None of the above should be interpreted as being in favor of or supporting the groping of commercial air travellers.

stay safe.


Title: Re: TSA: Sworn or unsworn?
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 18, 2010, 01:57:51 PM
and initiate a pat-down after I get their badge and their reason for cause/suspicion. 


give that a whirl  report back how it works out


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: fistful on November 18, 2010, 02:03:29 PM
Nekkid pics is not the same thing as nekkid.

And we're back to my crusade against people taking naked baby pictures.  =)


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: Tallpine on November 18, 2010, 02:10:07 PM
And we're back to my crusade against people taking naked baby pictures.  =)

But it's okay when the TSA does it  :police:


Title: Re: TSA: Sworn or unsworn?
Post by: Tallpine on November 18, 2010, 02:15:56 PM
Quote
If there will be an understanding that there is only that much people are willing to pay in time lost, dignity lost, money lost - over the practically non-existent, statistically, terrorist threat, then the madness will end.

But then how would the guvermint control the people  ???


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: Monkeyleg on November 18, 2010, 02:21:54 PM
I wonder what would happen if one were to pop some Viagra, and audibly and visibly be aroused by a pat-down?


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: Tallpine on November 18, 2010, 02:22:32 PM
Quote
Either the passenger is gay and doesn't like being touched by a straight, or the TSA agent is gay and perceived as being unprofessional with the pat-downs.

Lots of different options and permutations...  ;/


Title: Re: Fighting back against the TSA?
Post by: fistful on November 18, 2010, 02:33:55 PM
But they're the TSA. They only want to keep you safe.


Title: Re: But the Nekkid Scanner Pics Aren't Saved!!!oneoneleventy1!
Post by: Strings on November 18, 2010, 02:54:10 PM
SAD: that was my very first thought...


Title: Another TSA thread.
Post by: fistful on November 18, 2010, 03:26:17 PM
I couldn't decide which of the forty-seven TSA threads to post this in, so why not add another?

I can't believe that airline customers aren't already organizing a boycott. Or at least not that I've heard. Isn't it time that frequent flyers simply went by some other form of transportation, and said so? Loudly?

Cars, trains, boats, those still work, right?


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: Waitone on November 18, 2010, 03:44:27 PM
Bid specifications issued by TSA for the purchase of whole body scanners specified the ability to store and transmit images in spite of its protestations to the contrary.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/13/us/13scanners.html


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 18, 2010, 04:00:03 PM
jamis posted a link to the pdf of the actual gov paperwork.  what do you think it says?


Title: Re: Another TSA thread.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 18, 2010, 04:00:54 PM
i think they are sending a message  just not one some folks wanna hear


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 18, 2010, 04:01:37 PM
http://epic.org/open_gov/foia/TSA_Procurement_Specs.pdf


Title: Re: Another TSA thread.
Post by: lupinus on November 18, 2010, 04:05:50 PM
Quote
Cars, trains, boats, those still work, right?
Yes, they do. However, they often aren't practical.

And even so, so what? The protections in the constitution are not there as the .gov deems them, nor are they conditional on us choosing to give them up in exchange to do something.


Title: Re: Another TSA thread.
Post by: seeker_two on November 18, 2010, 04:09:32 PM
...and, if the boycot causes the airlines to lose money, they'll get another bailout from the gov't...  :mad:


Title: Re: Another TSA thread.
Post by: longeyes on November 18, 2010, 04:14:41 PM
Perhaps the grand plan is to end up, after the private carriers are insolvent, with one national state airline.  Then we could be like most of the rest of the world.  Obama would be happy.


Title: Re: Another TSA thread.
Post by: fistful on November 18, 2010, 04:22:25 PM
Yes, they do. However, they often aren't practical.
Yes, but doing inconvenient things to make a point is the nature of a boycott.

Quote
And even so, so what? The protections in the constitution are not there as the .gov deems them, nor are they conditional on us choosing to give them up in exchange to do something.

The idea is to hurt the airlines to the point that they put pressure on the TSA. It's not about lying down and taking it. Quite the reverse.


Title: TSA super thread
Post by: jamisjockey on November 18, 2010, 04:51:09 PM
All your TSA thread belong to us


Title: Re: TSA super thread
Post by: adively on November 18, 2010, 05:00:33 PM
All your TSA thread belong to us
*expletive deleted*it, you did that while I was reading one of the original threads and I advanced to the next page and got really confused.


Title: Re: TSA super thread
Post by: RevDisk on November 18, 2010, 05:07:18 PM

http://www.examiner.com/libertarian-in-national/florida-airport-to-opt-out-of-tsa-screening

One made the right choice.  Time to start pressuring the rest to do the same.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Angel Eyes on November 18, 2010, 05:10:37 PM
One made the right choice.  Time to start pressuring the rest to do the same.

More of them might be:  http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101118/ap_on_re_us/us_airport_security_private_screeners

SFO has already gone to private screeners instead of TSA.



Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Fly320s on November 18, 2010, 06:47:54 PM
Wow, 12 pages.  I got behind. Caught up now.

I've said it before, as an airline employee, I can't stand the TSA. When I become Emporer of the US, I will disban the TSA.  In the mean time, I encourage you all to boycott airlines until the TSA is gone.

As to the ammo questions:

FAMs: .357 Sig JHPs, last I heard. I haven't seen or talked with a FAM in months.

FFDOs: .40SW Federal 180g HST JHPs.


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: sanglant on November 18, 2010, 07:29:08 PM
I wonder what would happen if one were to pop some Viagra, and audibly and visibly be aroused by a pat-down?
hilarity would ensue. :laugh: even better is just go ahead and strip. bonus points for each hundred pounds past the first 2. :angel: hey what happened to the actor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Que_Sera_Sera_%28House%29) on the ep. of house where they had to cut a hole in his apartment wall to get him to the hospital? ??? :angel:


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: fistful on November 18, 2010, 07:49:48 PM
When I become Emporer of the US, I will disban the TSA. 

You will un-ban them?  ???   :P


Title: Re: Another TSA thread.
Post by: sanglant on November 18, 2010, 08:00:32 PM
Perhaps the grand plan is to end up, after the private carriers are insolvent, with one national state airline.  Then we could be like most of the rest of the world.  Obama would be happy.
Obama? happy? there isn't enough coke in the world. =|


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: AmbulanceDriver on November 18, 2010, 10:07:50 PM
I wonder what would happen if one were to pop some Viagra, and audibly and visibly be aroused by a pat-down?

Ahem...

(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/anxiety.png)


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Battle Monkey of Zardoz on November 18, 2010, 10:18:17 PM
Quote
do you have a case where tsa saved images outside their training mode as outlined in the specs you so kindly provided?

If it can be saved in training mode, it can be saved when not in training mode.  TSA has to go.


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: BridgeRunner on November 18, 2010, 11:11:51 PM
I wonder what would happen if one were to pop some Viagra, and audibly and visibly be aroused by a pat-down?

Not everyone needs Viagra.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nNhOH4Y0bI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nNhOH4Y0bI)


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 18, 2010, 11:14:30 PM
If it can be saved in training mode, it can be saved when not in training mode.  TSA has to go.


so thats a no then?


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 19, 2010, 12:15:56 AM

so thats a no then?

They stated that the images cannot be saved at all. Clearly this wasn't the case.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 19, 2010, 02:09:41 AM
lol   clearly?  thats always a redflag for me

try this

http://epic.org/open_gov/foia/TSA_Procurement_Specs.pdf

page 45 onward



and let me know when you find one of those saved tsa images   or are they the first gov agency in history to maintain a conspiracy and keep something secret?


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 19, 2010, 02:20:34 AM
CSD, I don't know how many times I have to tell you this...


The gizmodo pics of the Florida courthouse are using older tech.  However that tech is identical to what the TSA uses in some places, as well as the newer higher resolution machines.  Both devices have an SOP that dictates that no pics are to be saved.

But, these pics were obviously saved.

Ignore the quality of the images.

The fact that Gizmodo was able to obtain them at all is the concern.

They shouldn't exist in the first place.


but wait?!! isn't that the case thats being touted as an example?  isn't it the "same machine! zomg!"  we've established that marshalls in a courthouse does not equal tsa, and also seen that those images resemble "nekkid pics" only in the wild imaginings of alex jones. so if the machine isn't the same  the agency isn't the same and the pics ain't showing squat  why are they being used by alex et al as examples of the apocalypse?


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: roo_ster on November 19, 2010, 04:34:14 AM
but wait?!! isn't that the case thats being touted as an example?  isn't it the "same machine! zomg!"  we've established that marshalls in a courthouse does not equal tsa, and also seen that those images resemble "nekkid pics" only in the wild imaginings of alex jones. so if the machine isn't the same  the agency isn't the same and the pics ain't showing squat  why are they being used by alex et al as examples of the apocalypse?

Because they understand that the situations are analogous, if not identical. 



Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 19, 2010, 06:19:58 AM
ahhh the famous charlene drew jarvis quote   cause "it coulda happened that way"  even though it didn't


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: grampster on November 19, 2010, 06:53:26 AM
Go to RedState.com today (Friday , 19th) and read how the TSA harrased returning troops from Iraq in Indianapolis.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Fly320s on November 19, 2010, 06:56:39 AM
You will un-ban them?  ???   :P
Silence, minion! 


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: jamisjockey on November 19, 2010, 06:58:57 AM
Preamble: We the Sheeple of these United States, being scared of our own shadows, do ordain we are too stupid to take care of ourselves and demand the Federal Government give us stuff, tell us what to eat, and touch our junk at airports.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: CNYCacher on November 19, 2010, 07:03:43 AM
Go to RedState.com today (Friday , 19th) and read how the TSA harrased returning troops from Iraq in Indianapolis.

If this story is true, the only explanation is that the apocalypse is upon us.

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/11/18/another-tsa-outrage/

Is there a "The Stupid, it burns." smiley?


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: dogmush on November 19, 2010, 07:12:28 AM
Go to RedState.com today (Friday , 19th) and read how the TSA harrased returning troops from Iraq in Indianapolis.

Funny TSA Story:

When I came back from Iraq in '09 we flew into Baltimore, and had to clear customs there.  We got there about 0200 (IIRC, there's a bar in Shannon, Ireland so my recollections are a little Guiness tinged)  The airport was desterted (except for the Veteran's group that met us, whole different story there).  Seriously, it was us, Customs, the vets and TSA.  We walked out, cleared customs, got our bags, turned around and went through TSA security to get back on the same aircraft.  Now, while I was over there I had had shipped to me some [pURL=http://www.awelldressedbullet.ca/bullet-pens-retractable.html]cool pens.[/URL]  I had them for most of my tour.  Sure enough, TSA stopped me at the metal detector, made me pull them out of the sleeve pocket on my ACU's and told me I couldn't have them.  They counted as "fake explosives".  Whatever, I was tired and going home.  I threw them away, and went through the metal detector, while getting  a lecture that I should have known I couldn't have them. As I walk away, I see the agent pulling my pens out of the trash.   ;/  I hope he enjoyed them.

Crux of the story:  The whole time, two pass through a metal detector and a lecture, my M249 is on a three point sling across my chest.  Good thing they stopped the pens.   


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Tallpine on November 19, 2010, 07:44:12 AM
Quote
Crux of the story:  The whole time, two pass through a metal detector and a lecture, my M249 is on a three point sling across my chest.  Good thing they stopped the pens.   

You are a more patient man than I.  That SOB would have been looking down the muzzle, loaded or not.  :mad:

Isn't it great to be an American, "where at least you know you're free" ?  ;/


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: longeyes on November 19, 2010, 07:56:51 AM
Folks, we should thank the TSA for making the face of fascism so palpable to so many.  It is this kind of thing that ignites the righteous anger we so badly need to break out of our bad dream.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: RevDisk on November 19, 2010, 08:35:41 AM
Similar story to dogmush.

My memories are hazy due to Shannon, but when I got back to the States, I got hassled by Customs for the receipts of duty-free booze I picked up in Ireland.  I made the guy hold my SAW while I dug out the receipts.  I loved when they lectured me as well.  "Anything ELSE to declare?"   "Besides automatic weapons, classified material and signal gear?  No, not really."

TSA didn't search us, but only because we landed at our final destination.  Otherwise I'm sure TSA would have been very diligent in harassing returning veterans.  


Oh, and there's the time I threatened to have the entire TSA shift arrested.  I was couriering a laptop.  With classified data relating to the invasion of Iraq.  And they wanted to "look at it".  I told 'em, it goes out of my sight and control, I'm calling the cops over to detain them until the FBI and Army CID can show up to properly arrest them.  Ended up with me removing the battery and showing them that externally, it looked like a battery.  Refused to power it on.  With very few exceptions, every time I've flown since since I've been "randomly selected" for an extra special search.  

Let's see.  One of my sergeants (now long retired), who was DRAFTED into the US Army, made some passing comment relating to the fact that this sort of thing (TSA inspections) reminded him more of communism than the United States.  They literally tore apart everything in his bags and dumped it in a pile.  Twice.  

Oh, and it's not a wise idea for a TSA agent to commit sexual assault on a young lady when her boyfriend (and his entire squad) is within LOS, has an M16 and is rapidly approaching.  This was very early on in TSA.  They'd kick the metal detector when an attractive well-endowed young lady went through, and thus need to do a hands-on check.  Well, not all of the NG's were yet removed.  Someone radioed the boyfriend that his lady was coming through so he could keep her company until her flight took off.  I've never seen a more perfect "Buttstroke to the Head series" movement.  It was so beautiful, I'd swear it should be used for the manual.   The whole thing got dropped, as you're not supposed to drop a federal employee, even if they are sexually assaulting your woman.  Buddy got screamed at by his CO, TSA guy got allegedly "reprimanded".



If this story is true, the only explanation is that the apocalypse is upon us.

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/11/18/another-tsa-outrage/

Is there a "The Stupid, it burns." smiley?

Dude?  This happens regularly.  TSA regularly harasses troops during routine movements as well as going to or returning from OCONUS, if it's not directly from a US military airport.  Well, I haven't heard of the TSA sexually assaulting soldiers yet.  Mostly just stealing stuff (and not just potential weapons unless watches, jewelry and MP3 players count).  I'm sure that will be next.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: 41magsnub on November 19, 2010, 08:45:31 AM
Question for the folks returning from combat zones..  at any point did the TSA check the weapon you were carrying to make sure it was unloaded?  Rack the slide, pull the charging handle, and etc to make sure you weren't sneaking one in the chamber?

I never flew commercial in the army and it was all pre-9/11 anyway, just various charters with no security other than being told to pull the bolt out of the M16's and put it in my cargo pocket.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: RevDisk on November 19, 2010, 08:59:52 AM
Question for the folks returning from combat zones..  at any point did the TSA check the weapon you were carrying to make sure it was unloaded?  Rack the slide, pull the charging handle, and etc to make sure you weren't sneaking one in the chamber?

I never flew commercial in the army and it was all pre-9/11 anyway, just various charters with no security other than being told to pull the bolt out of the M16's and put it in my cargo pocket.

No.  TSA doesn't have any authority to touch another agency's weapons.  Just said agency's personnel.  I have friends that fly with loaded weapons (legally).  They don't check the weapons to see if they are loaded or not.  The guidance to remove the bolts was either from someone in the Army, or a "suggestion".   The TSA cannot legally order you to remove the bolt from your weapon during flight. 


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: 41magsnub on November 19, 2010, 09:55:23 AM
The bolt thing was my squad leader at the time, nothing more official than that.  Nobody was actually concerned, somebody stupid enough to try to hijack a 747 filled with a battalion of combat engineers would receive an epic beat down.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: dogmush on November 19, 2010, 10:07:35 AM
Question for the folks returning from combat zones..  at any point did the TSA check the weapon you were carrying to make sure it was unloaded?  Rack the slide, pull the charging handle, and etc to make sure you weren't sneaking one in the chamber?

I never flew commercial in the army and it was all pre-9/11 anyway, just various charters with no security other than being told to pull the bolt out of the M16's and put it in my cargo pocket.

I didn't, and wouldn't, let them touch my weapon.  Besides the obvious TSA is annoying thing, the Army frowns on us giving AA&E to civilians.  I'm the designated armed guard and courier for classified docs and AA&E for my unit now.  I'm kinda waiting for the first time I get to clear TSA with a loaded M9 and stuff they can't look at. 
 


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 19, 2010, 10:30:36 AM
The five private screening firms approved by the TSA must still screen by TSA guidelines and use the full-body scanners and gropings that have stirred such a fuss. More grief may be on the way for the feds. Rep. John L. Mica, Florida Republican, will become chairman of the powerful House Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure in January, and he says the TSA "is overstepping its bounds."


oddly those companies contributed to "guess who's" campaign.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/nov/18/pruden-stripping-for-a-full-travel-experience/


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Angel Eyes on November 19, 2010, 11:21:13 AM

Give TSA the respect they deserve (thanks to reason.com):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaSoMVFfxfA

Some language mildly NSFW.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 19, 2010, 12:14:58 PM
I believe C&SD had identified the problem.

Switching to private companies doing the sexual-assaults and virtual stripping will not help, not just because the companies are mandated to do the same things by law, but because the problem is not in the physical presence the searchers.

The problem is that we've gotten it ingrained into our collective psyche ľ and by 'we' I mean Israelis, Americans, Europeans ľ that terrorists are the worst thing since Hitler, and that any safety expenditure at all is worth it to combat them.

We need to combat the idea that 'cost-benefit analysis' is somehow bad.

We do not ôhave to live withö the insane security apparatus, just as we don ôhave to live withö most other parts of the 'modern state'. They are creatures of our ideas and our political system, they're not mandated by anything else.

There was a time before psycho-scanners and maniac-searchers, therefore there can be a time after.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Oleg Volk on November 19, 2010, 01:50:48 PM
(http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/15128-8/tsa2691.jpg)


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 19, 2010, 03:18:32 PM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/11/19/article-1331346-0C1A14BB000005DC-901_468x347.jpg


this is what you are afraid of folks seeing?


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: dogmush on November 19, 2010, 03:39:10 PM
this is what you are afraid of folks seeing?

Since your Google-Fu is broken, more like these:
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a199/dogmush/backscatter/09xray_large.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a199/dogmush/backscatter/airport_millimeter_scan1.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a199/dogmush/backscatter/backscatter-1.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a199/dogmush/backscatter/rapiscan.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a199/dogmush/backscatter/TSADemonstratesNewImagingTechnologyReaganFg7IHH0z7jvl.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a199/dogmush/backscatter/x-ray-homer-simpsons.jpg)

Although to be fair, I'm so sexy I'm used to people trying to see me nekkid.  I'm as much or more concerned with stopping Security Theater's mission creep as soon as possible.  TSA isin't doing a damn thing for our security against terror.  They're a waste of time (mine), money, and any easy excuse to get Americans used to ever expanding government power.  I said it when Bush started our KGB, it's a bad idea, and it's not working.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 19, 2010, 04:10:51 PM
got a source for those?
there have been some circulated that were "funny"


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Angel Eyes on November 19, 2010, 04:15:25 PM
got a source for those?
there have been some circulated that were "funny"

I'm fairly certain the last one is not genuine.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 19, 2010, 04:24:22 PM
me too its been debunked several times but the believers trot it out everytime someone reprints the wnd piece

but hey why muddy the waters with facts and reality when you are in mid rant and high dudgeon .

there are some legitimate concerns but they easily get lost in the fabrication and it only makes it too easy to dismiss everything the present outa hand


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: dogmush on November 19, 2010, 04:33:00 PM
got a source for those?
there have been some circulated that were "funny"

In order:
nytimes.com
TSA
science.howstuffworks.com
screenshot of TSA demo.
moblog.whmsoft.net (kinda sketchy I know, but it matches the rest)
Dude at Fox that canceled Firefly.


This is one of the fake ones. (http://musicians4freedom.com/2010/02/exposed-naked-body-scanner-images-of-film-star-printed-circulated-by-airport-staff/) I deliberatly left them out for much the same reasons you mentioned above. (link prolly NSFW)


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: seeker_two on November 19, 2010, 04:33:15 PM
I'm fairly certain the last one is not genuine.


Could be....sometimes TSA agents walk through them...


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 19, 2010, 04:36:10 PM
In order:
nytimes.com
TSA
science.howstuffworks.com
screenshot of TSA demo.
moblog.whmsoft.net (kinda sketchy I know, but it matches the rest)
Dude at Fox that canceled Firefly.


This is one of the fake ones. (http://musicians4freedom.com/2010/02/exposed-naked-body-scanner-images-of-film-star-printed-circulated-by-airport-staff/) I deliberatly left them out. (link prolly NSFW)

read that pdf  specially the part about privacy and how the machines address it and the difference between training mode and operational.
then see if you can find pics of one actually in operation  besides the ones i've already posted since obviously they don't count.  also feel free to show me where the tsa has saved sent the images.  not the us marshalls but the tsa


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: TommyGunn on November 19, 2010, 04:49:36 PM
EDIT


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: dogmush on November 19, 2010, 04:55:10 PM
read that pdf  specially the part about privacy and how the machines address it and the difference between training mode and operational.
then see if you can find pics of one actually in operation  besides the ones i've already posted since obviously they don't count.  also feel free to show me where the tsa has saved sent the images.  not the us marshalls but the tsa

Why?

You asked what images people were concerned about.  I provided some.  Those are the kind of images many folks don't want TSA employees to see of them.  Not the Gizmodo one.  The backscatter machines. 

The entire privacy portion of the .pdf is crap.  Obviously the images aren't kept private.  The TSA employee sees them.  Anyone beyond that is icing on the cake.  Folks don't want TSA people looking at (or feeling) their junk. how is that hard to comprehend for you?


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Oleg Volk on November 19, 2010, 05:01:31 PM
(http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/22879-3/tsa0906.jpg)


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: adively on November 19, 2010, 05:23:20 PM
(http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/22879-3/tsa0906.jpg)

That is a good one.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: RocketMan on November 19, 2010, 05:55:51 PM
I'm fairly certain the last one is not genuine.

Sure it is.  That's John S. Pistole, TSA Administrator.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Angel Eyes on November 19, 2010, 06:11:45 PM
[Forwarded from a friend of mine.  "bravebuddies" is a support group for parents of children with juvenile diabetes.  Interesting that French security is just as intrusive as TSA.]


To:  bravebuddies@yahoogroups.com


 
Hi there,
 
I was going to post this after our travels last summer, and forgot, but thought now might be the right time.  Before we left of vacation last year I prepared Jordan for all the security measures that she might be subjected to.  Turns out we were in for a few surprises!
 
San Francisco to London:  TSA spots the bulge from her pump and asks her to remove her cell phone.  Once they learn it's an insulin pump she is pulled aside for a pat down.  I go through security and wait by the exit for her.  While she is waiting for a female agent I am repeatedly ordered out of the area.  I kept smiling and saying that I'm waiting for my child.  Third warning to me comes with a threat to call the supervisor.  I tell him to do what he needs to do, but I'm not leaving my daughter unattended. The old style pat down takes place and I leave with Jordan before the supervisor arrives.
 
Paris to Washington DC:  The Paris security spots Jordan's pump and pulls her aside for the special screening.  I run into the same issue with them wanting me to leave.  The screening in Paris is closer to what our new screening will be - and when the agent grabs the waistband of her sweats and pulls them forward to look down Jordan's pants I was shocked.  Luckily it was over before I could react because my instinct was to rip her hands off my daughter.  Jordan was horrified and she still talks about how violated she felt.  Meanwhile as we're on the jetway boarding the plane an agent decides to pull me out of line and rescreen me.  First order of business was to take my passport.  It was a very long, completely thorough search/question session.  Meanwhile my other daughter who was with me at the time was being ordered onto the plane (in French so she didn't understand) without me.  Poor kid looked terrified.  I was finally given my passport back and allowed to board the plane.
 
Washington DC to San Francisco:  Once again Jordan is pat searched.  This time no one is yelling for me to move along!  After the search they take her to another area and have her handle her pump.  After she does they wiped her hand with a tissue and ran it through a machine.  They weren't rude but they didn't explain what they were doing and she was really confused.
 
So, my advice is that you talk to your child, maybe practice the pat down so they know what it will feel like. Explain that they might want to wipe their hands with a tissue and why. Jordan has never been allowed to just walk through the detector or be wanded... they have always pat searched her.  Be ready to stand your ground should security want to force you to leave your child unattended, but explain to your child that while you won't leave the area, you won't be able to stay right with them.  Prepare them for the chance that you are the one that is being selected for special screening and make sure they wait somewhere where they can see you.  If you're going to major tourist destinations expect tight security screening there as well (the vatican for example).  Btw, we never had any questions about all our supplies that went through the x-ray machines.
 
I was surprised by my visceral reaction to the search of my daughter in France and I'm not sure I can stomach someone touching her breasts and groin they next time we fly in the US.  And if she is forced to endure that on every leg of every flight we ever take... we just might be driving everywhere for the next few years!
 
Happy Travels :-)
 


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 19, 2010, 06:16:01 PM
Quote
[Forwarded from a friend of mine.  "bravebuddies" is a support group for parents of children with juvenile diabetes.  Interesting that French security is just as intrusive as TSA.]

The creepy stuff is global now. It is part of the TERRAISM scare.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Tallpine on November 19, 2010, 06:51:57 PM
Quote
So, my advice is that you talk to your child, maybe practice the pat down so they know what it will feel like.

Oh, great - molest your own children so they will get used to it  ;/


Title: Re: TSA Plays "Pocket Pool" With Passenger's Equipment
Post by: stevelyn on November 19, 2010, 08:28:52 PM
When you count on terror to justify tyranny, you might just get more than you bargained for.  Arrogance blinds people.

Yeah, but I remember a lot of people supporting TSA when the welfare-to-work morons were first federalized because they keep us saaaaaaaayfe. I also remember catching hell because I opposed it.

Well, how's that working out now?

The flying public is getting exactly what they deserve.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Gowen on November 19, 2010, 09:15:08 PM
Just in time for the Holidays.....

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/1044965/


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 19, 2010, 09:34:44 PM
(http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/22879-3/tsa0906.jpg)

like this guy?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article7145681.ece

A former US Marine is at the centre of Israelĺs response to the outrage caused by its raid on a Gaza-bound aid boat after it listed him as one of five people on board with terrorist links.

Ken OĺKeefe, 40, who lives in London, told The Times that he had met Ismail Haniya, the Hamas leader, and said that he supported the organisationĺs ôright to violent resistanceö.

He also said that he had helped to subdue two Israeli commandos after leaders of the Turkish Islamic IHH charity enacted a plan to defend the boat.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 19, 2010, 09:52:25 PM
Well, let's cavity-search everybody then. Don't want someone who has [gasp] met with a terrorist to go un-cavity-searched.

Under this definition, I would also have a 'terrorist' link. Given how I once met with a 'former' FATAH fighter.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 19, 2010, 10:03:21 PM
Well, let's cavity-search everybody then. Don't want someone who has [gasp] met with a terrorist to go un-cavity-searched.

Under this definition, I would also have a 'terrorist' link. Given how I once met with a 'former' FATAH fighter.


disingenuous much?  there is a difference between meeting someone and helping disarm commandos.  heck i'm irish i've got terrorist kin


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 20, 2010, 07:47:19 AM
Helping disarm commandos is not an act of terrorism. Not by a long stretch.  But fine. You win. There are some U.S. Marines who can commit various acts that are dangerous and wrong. The average Marine is still not statistically likely to be a terrorist.

Hell, the average person is not statistically likely to be a terrorist.

(http://www.clusterflock.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/41g9wa5nrdl_aa280_.jpg)


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: freakazoid on November 20, 2010, 08:05:28 AM
Quote
So, my advice is that you talk to your child, maybe practice the pat down so they know what it will feel like. Explain that they might want to wipe their hands with a tissue and why. Jordan has never been allowed to just walk through the detector or be wanded... they have always pat searched her.  Be ready to stand your ground should security want to force you to leave your child unattended, but explain to your child that while you won't leave the area, you won't be able to stay right with them.  Prepare them for the chance that you are the one that is being selected for special screening and make sure they wait somewhere where they can see you.  If you're going to major tourist destinations expect tight security screening there as well (the vatican for example).  Btw, we never had any questions about all our supplies that went through the x-ray machines.

My advice would be to not accept that crap. If I had a child and they tried to pull something like that one of them would be on the floor.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: jamisjockey on November 20, 2010, 08:14:36 AM
Helping disarm commandos is not an act of terrorism. Not by a long stretch.  But fine. You win. There are some U.S. Marines who can commit various acts that are dangerous and wrong. The average Marine is still not statistically likely to be a terrorist.
Hell, the average person is not statistically likely to be a terrorist.

(http://www.clusterflock.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/41g9wa5nrdl_aa280_.jpg)

Especially while in uniform returning from a war zone.






Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Tallpine on November 20, 2010, 08:42:11 AM
Quote
heck i'm irish i've got terrorist kin

Or Freedom Fighters, depending on how you look at it  =D


Saorsa!


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 20, 2010, 10:42:41 AM
Or Freedom Fighters, depending on how you look at it  =D


Saorsa!

yup
though the westie cousins are hard to put a good spin on


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: P5 Guy on November 20, 2010, 04:07:46 PM
Just wait 'til they insist on doing the Trailways Cowboys that way.

Well i know Greyhound is the only survivor of the bus lines.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 20, 2010, 04:57:45 PM
how would you profile
this guy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Finton

look up his pic


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: adively on November 20, 2010, 05:13:27 PM
how would you profile
this guy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Finton


http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...w=1280&bih=596
Your second link doesn't work.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 20, 2010, 05:24:46 PM
Your second link doesn't work.


thanks


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: sanglant on November 20, 2010, 05:35:18 PM
Quote
According to charges against him, on February 3, 1999, Finton indicated to a woman in Olney, Illinois, that he had "a firearm or other dangerous weaponö, took $323 and eight cartons of cigarettes ôby the use of force,ö and ôcaused great bodily harmö to the woman ôin that he struck (her) in the face and pushed her into a desk.ö[3] Finton was convicted of aggravated assault and aggravated robbery and spent 1999ľ2005 in prison
all i have to say is, unarmed victims are never a good thing. :angel:


AKA. the two to COM, and one to the head. school of terrorism prevention.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: dogmush on November 21, 2010, 05:33:08 AM
C&SD.  You seem to be caught up in peoples pictures.  Part of the problem the US faces is when you use the word "Profiling" half the country thinks about pulling over a black guy.

Let me help with that. (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Behavioral+profiling)



Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 21, 2010, 07:55:49 AM
oh i understand profiling  i'm trying to point out why it carries the seeds for fail. do i need to explain why we would be hard pressed to try israeli style here?


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: TommyGunn on November 21, 2010, 09:10:07 AM
do i need to explain why we would be hard pressed to try israeli style here?

We have 60 times the air traffic Israel has.  I don't think we have time to do it Israeli style based on that. 
Shame 'cause their way seems a lot saner......


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: sanglant on November 21, 2010, 09:25:38 AM
if we continue down this road, we'll have close to the same levels of air travel, as Israel. =D if i squint just right, i can almost think that's the goal. [tinfoil]


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 21, 2010, 11:10:49 AM
you check how full flights are recently? >:D


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 21, 2010, 11:31:46 AM
I have no idea why people are so obsessed wit the Israeli system, anyway.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 21, 2010, 11:37:56 AM
because they only have peripheral knowledge of it?  i could sell frozen dog turds in some circles if i marketed them as israeli frozen dog turds


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MillCreek on November 21, 2010, 11:49:46 AM
I have no idea why people are so obsessed wit the Israeli system, anyway.

Cause Israel is tacti-cool and eleventy!


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Tallpine on November 21, 2010, 12:30:11 PM
Quote
israeli frozen dog turds

Dogs are unclean  :O


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: dogmush on November 21, 2010, 12:30:50 PM
oh i understand profiling  i'm trying to point out why it carries the seeds for fail. do i need to explain why we would be hard pressed to try israeli style here?

I refuse to believe that our only choices are Checkpoint Charlie at the gate, or the Israili system.

There's a place for good Behavioral Profiling in a good American security setup.  At the very least screeners should be trained in it, and not afraid to pull folks from the line based on them fitting a profile.

That's not to say ONLY look at people that fit a profile, but be at least aware that a profile exists.

We should be able to adapt the parts of other countries systems that work and discard those that don't, or wouldn't, work for us.

For example, I recently flew through Amsterdam.  The security checkpoints there are at the gates.  each gate has an X-ray, magnetometer, and some screeners.  That means any one line NEVER has more then 1 flights worth of people, and often less. (they open the gate about 1.5 hrs before boarding starts.)  Security is the same as here (They have to conform to TSA standards on flights into the states) but total wait time is less then 15 min in line. And the line's are significantly less inviting targets.

We should be looking at things that work, and not concentrating on stupid, and invasive, crap that doesn't.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: White Horseradish on November 21, 2010, 01:17:32 PM
At the very least screeners should be trained in it, and not afraid to pull folks from the line based on them fitting a profile.
The average TSA salary is $10.50 to $15 an hour. Do you think you can get trained professionals for that?


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: zxcvbob on November 21, 2010, 01:21:39 PM
i could sell frozen dog turds in some circles if i marketed them as israeli frozen dog turds
On a stick?


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: jamisjockey on November 21, 2010, 01:26:59 PM
The average TSA salary is $10.50 to $15 an hour. Do you think you can get trained professionals for that?


And at that pay grade they get to feel my balls? Awesome!


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 21, 2010, 01:33:17 PM

And at that pay grade they get to feel my balls? Awesome!


no paygrade covers that


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 21, 2010, 01:35:33 PM
I refuse to believe that our only choices are Checkpoint Charlie at the gate, or the Israili system.

There's a place for good Behavioral Profiling in a good American security setup.  At the very[/i] least screeners should be trained in it, and not afraid to pull folks from the line based on them fitting a profile.

That's not to say ONLY look at people that fit a profile, but be at least aware that a profile exists.

We should be able to adapt the parts of other countries systems that work and discard those that don't, or wouldn't, work for us.

For example, I recently flew through Amsterdam.  The security checkpoints there are at the gates.  each gate has an X-ray, magnetometer, and some screeners.  That means any one line NEVER has more then 1 flights worth of people, and often less. (they open the gate about 1.5 hrs before boarding starts.)  Security is the same as here (They have to conform to TSA standards on flights into the states) but total wait time is less then 15 min in line. And the line's are significantly less inviting targets.

We should be looking at things that work, and not concentrating on stupid, and invasive, crap that doesn't.


how many flights leaving amsterdam?  how many for the states?  1 1/2 before a flight?  we have 2 flights leaving in that time from gates at busy terminals


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: ramis on November 21, 2010, 02:14:25 PM
TSA twitter account.  =D

http://twitter.com/tsagov (http://twitter.com/tsagov)


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Strings on November 21, 2010, 02:27:04 PM
>And at that pay grade they get to feel my balls? Awesome!<

Which is the main reason I have never applied for a TSA position: there simply isn't enough money available to get me to feel Jamis' balls...


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 21, 2010, 02:36:33 PM
>And at that pay grade they get to feel my balls? Awesome!<

Which is the main reason I have never applied for a TSA position: there simply isn't enough money available to get me to feel Jamis' balls...


amen


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: dogmush on November 21, 2010, 04:27:11 PM

how many flights leaving amsterdam?  how many for the states?  1 1/2 before a flight?  we have 2 flights leaving in that time from gates at busy terminals

Not quite.

Depending on who you which source Amsterdam-Schiphol is between the ninth (http://www.essentialtravel.co.uk/guides/netherlands/amsterdam-airport.htm) and fifteenth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_busiest_airports_by_passenger_traffic) busiest airport in the world.

The only US airports above it are, in order: Hartsfield Jackson, O'hare, LAX, DFW, Denver and JFK.  JFK and Denver are within 15% of the passenger traffic.

Heathrow is the second buisiest airport in the world, and passengers report Security wait times of 5-15 min.  Would you like to tell us how the Brits don't understand terrorism?

Since 9/11/01, airport security in the US has gotten more expensive, more time consuming, and less effective.  Seriously, every minute we spend on gorram nail clippers is time and money away from actual security.

What we probably need to do is rip all security out of airports and start over with an effective, layered system, that considers actual threats, both objects and people, and doesn't sacrifice personal dignity and human rights to do it.

Before you start, yes I know it'll be expensive.  If we're too cheap as a country to swing actual security, scrap the whole thing and let me bring my Sig and a frakking diet coke on board. 


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Ben on November 21, 2010, 04:57:34 PM
Before you start, yes I know it'll be expensive.  If we're too cheap as a country to swing actual security, scrap the whole thing and let me bring my Sig and a frakking diet coke on board. 

That's a big 10-4.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 21, 2010, 07:19:16 PM
So... why, exactly, can America not just revert to the situation up to 2008? Why are metal detectors and explosive sniffers not enough?



Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 21, 2010, 07:36:50 PM
So... why, exactly, can America not just revert to the situation up to 2008? Why are metal detectors and explosive sniffers not enough?



I went through an explosive puffer-sniffer wearing my regular shooting jacket, which had been to the range a dozen times and not washed, residue of thousands of rounds on it.  I also wore it while reloading hundreds (perhaps thousands?) of rounds, exposed to fresh gunpowders of various burn rates as well as whatever compounds (lead strychnate?  mercury fulminate?) primers are made of.

Metal detectors don't catch ceramic or high quality polymer knives.

It was possible to get things into the plane.

Frankly, I don't care.  I have enough faith in the 1-3% of fellow air travellers that will absolutely MAUL the idiot who jumps up and says "Admiral Ackbar" or whatever.  Sophisticated/clandestine triggering require electronics.  Homebrew "chemical only" triggers require mixing and exposure to sight to mix (or awkward fiddling in bags/lavatory/other weird behavior).  And the 3oz limitation stops most chem-bombs from being very effective.

That's enough.

Nekkid scans are too much.  Pat downs are too much.  By about 10-fold.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: fistful on November 21, 2010, 07:39:55 PM
So... why, exactly, can America not just revert to the situation up to 2008? Why are metal detectors and explosive sniffers not enough?

And return to the failed policies of the last eight nine ten years? NEVER!


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 21, 2010, 07:45:27 PM
Thank you. Precisely my point.

Yes, I'm sure there are certain ways of getting stuff past security. Failing that, there are ways of making weapons out of stuff you have on the plane.

Coke cans can be fashioned into a flail, or a set of mean knives. You can kill a man with a salt shaker and other things placed on the table of an average restaurant.

At some point, we're going to ask ourselves: what is our cost/benefit analysis? We're never going to stop EVERYTHING, so we're going to have to ACCEPT a certain degree of insecurity. What level of security can we accept?

A set of cheap and non-intrusive measures (metal-detectors, arming the pilots, etc. etc.) will stop most of the sillier and more ridiculous terrorists.  If we want, however, to stop trained ninjas from getting on board aircraft wit ceramic knives, we need to expend FAR more time, effort, and privacy to get there from here. Diminishing returns are already starting to hit.



Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Ben on November 21, 2010, 09:25:41 PM
So... why, exactly, can America not just revert to the situation up to 2008? Why are metal detectors and explosive sniffers not enough?

Interesting tangent to this on policies: When was the last time any of you that fly was asked to turn your laptop on by the TSA agent or pull the battery? For the first couple of years I had to do this all the time prior to the laptop going through the x-ray. For the last 6-7 years, I've never been asked to. It's not like that potential threat went away.

This is why current policies are so maddening -- it's always a reaction to whatever threat just happened. Laptop bombs are apparently passe so we don't go through all those procedures anymore.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: De Selby on November 21, 2010, 09:30:20 PM
Interesting tangent to this on policies: When was the last time any of you that fly was asked to turn your laptop on by the TSA agent or pull the battery? For the first couple of years I had to do this all the time prior to the laptop going through the x-ray. For the last 6-7 years, I've never been asked to. It's not like that potential threat went away.

This is why current policies are so maddening -- it's always a reaction to whatever threat just happened. Laptop bombs are apparently passe so we don't go through all those procedures anymore.

They are transparently knee-jerk reactions.  I get the feeling that someone up in the TSA offices has seen one too many episodes of "24", and spends all of his days in "condition crimson" or whatever colour code they use for terror threats now. 

I think the security measures in place before 9/11 were fine.  The hijackers took advantage of a presumption that they'd just land the plane somewhere and hold everyone hostage.  If that same presumption existed today, these enhanced measures would not have stopped 9/11.



Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: fistful on November 21, 2010, 09:32:07 PM
I think the security measures in place before 9/11 were fine.

Perhaps the real issue is that no politician or bureaucrat can dare to utter the above words. They have to DO SOMETHING! to ensure against any future 9-11s.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: De Selby on November 21, 2010, 09:38:37 PM
Perhaps the real issue is that no politician or bureaucrat can dare to utter the above words. They have to DO SOMETHING! to ensure against any future 9-11s.

That's a big part of the problem - they need a program they can put on the news to demonstrate action. 


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: longeyes on November 21, 2010, 09:57:08 PM
The real risks to Americans are via sea and air freight, and by localized terror attacks (malls, schools, airports).  Not all of these will be stopped by the TSA or, for that matter, by DHS.  We're in a war, and in a war like this significant casualties are unavoidable.  What can be done is to make the enemy pay a higher price than he, or his allies and subsidizers, are willing to pay.  Unfortunately, the people in D.C. are unwilling to do this, probably because too many are inextricably entwined with elements on the other side.  Only when the American people demand that we take this war seriously and do what's necessary on offense will anything change.  If they don't we will end up with a police state not that different from what our enemies take for granted as a normal society.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 22, 2010, 12:10:38 AM
Quote
I think the security measures in place before 9/11 were fine.


This.

The problem is that by the time you have dudes so hard they can fight their way into the cockpit with nothing but flimsy boxcutters, you're not going to stop them by checking them from weapons. Of course, you're going to easily stop a random idiot who gets up in the morning and decides he wants to hijack Flight 5665, but a pre-9/11 security system would have already done so.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: jamisjockey on November 22, 2010, 05:25:26 AM
That's a big part of the problem - they need a program they can put on the news to demonstrate action. 

The real problem is that the American people are too willing to take that for the answer. 


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: longeyes on November 22, 2010, 07:10:54 AM
The real problem is that America is still at the mall, and the ones who aren't are probably cashing gov't checks.

Riddle me this: how do open societies beat tribalist, religionist societies and stay open and free unless they use the strengths that such societies have?  We have the means to take down our enemies, but instead we are letting them wear us down with a thousand cuts.  We have "leadership" that lies to the American people about the nature of this and what it will take to win it.  We can't name the enemy and we have restrictive rules of engagement; we certainly do not have anything resembling serious mobilization.  If and when we begin to suffer losses domestically it will, with these people in control and with this culture, be nothing but a great opportunity to put fetters on American society.  Anything but acknowledge that core policies pursued by the American Left and by our internationalist corporate businesses have brought us to this sorry pass.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 22, 2010, 07:15:54 AM
Quote
Riddle me this: how do open societies beat tribalist, religionist societies and stay open and free unless they use the strengths that such societies have?

1. Do what is already being done. Engage their silly paramilitaries with military force. Establish not merely victories - establish incredibly lopsided, and legendary victories. People learn. They will give up before America does. Happily a platoon of United States Marines or even one of America's lesser allies can defeat battalions of terrorists.

2. Ignore their crap. Assuming they are being engaged militarily, a 'society' like Afghanistan cannot meaningfully threaten the United States. THey can pull off isolated - and sometimes very menacing - attacks against America (which is something that cannot be fully prevented, EVER), but in the civilization contest, they have already lost.



Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: longeyes on November 22, 2010, 07:21:57 AM
That was indeed my point, Micro: establish, to borrow some of your words and add a few of my own, not merely victories but lopsided, legendary victories that sear into the consciousness of the enemy a demoralizing lesson.  And, yes, again, Afghanistan per se is not a threat to us.  What's a threat to us is Islamists armed and backed by nations that endorse state-subsidized terror.  We know who they are, but we have yet to get our minds around the magnitude of that challenge.  All of what we have seen since 9/11 is just a prelude, an anteroom, while we catch our breath and play out all the smaller options that we wish would work but ultimately won't.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Ben on November 22, 2010, 07:23:09 AM
1. Do what is already being done. Engage their silly paramilitaries with military force. Establish not merely victories - establish incredibly lopsided, and legendary victories. People learn. They will give up before America does. Happily a platoon of United States Marines or even one of America's lesser allies can defeat battalions of terrorists.

Sadly, I'm guessing few, if any, in the White House have read, let alone understood von Clausewitz. And Machiavelli is simply known as some kind of masochist.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: mtnbkr on November 22, 2010, 07:42:25 AM
Quote from: thealwayssexpositivemicrobalrog
2. Ignore their crap. Assuming they are being engaged militarily, a 'society' like Afghanistan cannot meaningfully threaten the United States. THey can pull off isolated - and sometimes very menacing - attacks against America (which is something that cannot be fully prevented, EVER), but in the civilization contest, they have already lost.

Honestly, I think this is the best tactic with these people.  Ignore them, pull out of their countries, and let them implode.  When they enter our homelands and cause havoc, kill them, but give up on trying to occupy their shithole "nations".  I don't think Option 1 will work because they don't have anything, don't want anything, and don't care enough about their fellow man to worry about death of their comrades. 

If you did manage to kill every currently existing terrorist, that action alone will cause others to rise up.  If you fully subjugated Afghanistan, like-minded folks in another stone-age hellhole will take up the fight.  You can't kill enough of these savages to make them stop because that killing is part of what breeds them.

Chris


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: vaskidmark on November 22, 2010, 07:53:15 AM

This.

The problem is that by the time you have dudes so hard they can fight their way into the cockpit with nothing but flimsy boxcutters, you're not going to stop them by checking them from weapons. Of course, you're going to easily stop a random idiot who gets up in the morning and decides he wants to hijack Flight 5665, but a pre-9/11 security system would have already done so.

But the hijackers did NOT fight their way into the cockpits.

They merely threatened to cut a few people.

"Give them what they want and they will not hurt you" apparently does not turn out so well when what they want is to use your aircraft as a giant lawn dart before they let all the passengers off.

As has been mentioned, it is probably the difficulty of getting people into the country to carry out attacks, as opposed to being able to carry out the attacks.  Stuff you can buy at any grocery or hardware store without the first eyebrow being raised can be put into a backpack purchased at the local drugstore's school-supply aisle and carried to just about anywhere short of a courthouse without raising the first eyebrow.

So how come we have not suffered such attacks?  Luck or good intelligence/operations?

stay safe.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Ben on November 22, 2010, 08:02:37 AM
So how come we have not suffered such attacks?  Luck or good intelligence/operations?

stay safe.

Excellent question. Right after 9/11, officers from what's now ICE were doing facility inspections of Federal buildings for anti-terrorism safety. The inspections included briefings of potential attacks of not just the Fed buildings, but the community in general. I'm the safety / emergency response guy for my building, so I got the briefings. Nothing classified or FOUO, and probably easily found on the web, but I won't go into detail.

Some of the potential attacks were exceptionally evil and exceptionally easy to execute. I've always wondered why none of them have been carried out.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Tallpine on November 22, 2010, 08:19:25 AM
Has anyone else observed that these supposed security procedures seem less designed to find explosives and weapons, and more designed to find cash, jewelry, drugs, etc ... ???


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 22, 2010, 08:23:23 AM
Perhaps a brief story will elucidate on what I mean.

The person who runs the medieval fencing class I attend is a veteran. Not anything spectacular, but still, combat infantry. Now, it is his belief - I do not know why - that bar fights are fun. So whenever he goes to Russia to visit his friends and relatives, he makes it a point to get into a fight.

Last time he was there, he managed to get himself attacked by three fellows. One of them, his friends dealt with, and two, he beat up and they ran off. Now, why is that story instructive? Not because this specific individual is John Rambo - but because he isn't.

Consider a tough bar fighter in a country like Russia. Now he's seen some moves, and he's been doing this for two or three years. He probably has some good instinct, and maybe his older brother showed him some good moves when he was twelve. If he were to fight me, he'd clock me in the face  few times and then stomp on my body when I fell. But two of these guys got their butt kicked by a guy who did IDF enlisted service. Why? Because the guy studied a real, military martial art. That art had been developed for him by scientists and sports professionals over the course of several years, and then the process of TEACHING the art to him was developed by professionals in the sports and education field.

An Afghani terrorist is not unlike this bar fighter. His Dad taught him a few tricks from fighting the Russians, and maybe he's gone to an Al-Quaeda training camp or something. Maybe not.

When he goes up against an American, German, or any other allied soldier, he's going up against an entirely other league of fellow. A fellow whose entire system of training - from navigation to small arms combat - is worked out scientifically. The choice of equipment he carries, even the weight of his combat gear is the product of some eggheads researching into ortopedics, optics, medicine, engineering, ergonomics, ballistics, nuclear physics, materials science, tactics, military history, psychology, education. The fact his gun is better, his optics are shinier, whatever - is a product of the fact that our civilization handles KNOWLEDGE better.

It is only in the imagination of small-minded men that being civilized makes us softer and weaker. Being civilized has allowed us to produce the hardest combatants the world has ever known: soldiers who grab armed terrorists and throw them on the terrorists' own grenades, soldiers who can fight - in close combat, using only knives and shovels - against a numerically-exceeding horde of terrorists, and then stab and hack them to death with almost no casualties. Every United States Marine, every Israeli paratrooper, every Russian VDV paratrooper fighting against Wahabbis would - by the standards of ancient Greece, the middle ages, the 17th century - be taken as an incredible hero of epic legend.

And unlike any of these pitiful worthless 'tards whom we call 'terrorists', we can produce these men as a routine process. More, we have more of these men  than any of these cultures can produce fighting men at all.

And now think of the equipment we produce for these men. Every single one of the inventions I will list now are not merely 'cool' - each of them individually is a revolution in armed combat. Equipping your men with Trijicon scopes increases their capability as combat marksmen by 100% on average. Equipping your military with electronic, live-updating C3 systems makes it possible to coordinate disparate units by the click of a button where a lesser organization would resort to long radio exchanges on all levels, or even (in the case of some terrorist groups) runners. And then there are the more obvious things - guided munitions, UAVs, combat robots, etc.

The Afghani are many things, but they do learn. Every time a platoon of Marines takes down a company of Al Quaeda, they see and they learn. And for the Americans, the Germans, the British - these sort of victories are not even the stuff of legend. For them it is something they do routinely.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: mtnbkr on November 22, 2010, 08:43:27 AM
MB, nobody doubts our ability to beat them one-on-one or in groups.  The question in my mind is whether it is possible or even desirable to kill enough of them to make those wavering between becoming a terrorist or not decide it isn't worth it.  I don't think that's possible in a culture that apparently doesn't fear death. 

The apparent mindset of those who *would* become a terrorist is one of "the US killed a Muslim, I must avenge my brother".  This is a process that breeds as many as it kills. 

Chris



Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 22, 2010, 09:00:21 AM
Where do you get this idea that their culture doesn't fear death? If it doesn't, why are their 'warriors of Allah' so cowardly, most of the time?


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: mtnbkr on November 22, 2010, 09:04:37 AM
Maybe "doesn't fear death" is an overstatement, but it doesn't seem to hold the same deterrent that it does for most Westerners.  That doesn't change the fact that each new terrorist seems to spring up in reaction to the killing of another. 

Chris


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: adively on November 22, 2010, 10:19:56 AM
TSA has released a list of items not to carry-on this Thanksgiving:

Fox News Article: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/11/22/snowglobes-pumpkin-pie-tsa-issues-thanksgiving-rules-air-travel/ (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/11/22/snowglobes-pumpkin-pie-tsa-issues-thanksgiving-rules-air-travel/)

Actual TSA List:  http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/holiday.shtm (http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/holiday.shtm)

Traveling with Food or Gifts

How to Pack Food and Gift Items
image of christmas gifts, perfume, and fruit cake

When it comes to bringing items through checkpoints, we've seen just about everything. Traveling with food or gifts is an even bigger challenge. Everyone has favorite foods from home that they want to bring to holiday dinners, or items from their destination that they want to bring back home.

Not sure about what you can and can't bring through the checkpoint? Here's a list of liquid, aerosol and gel items that you should put in your checked bag, ship ahead, or leave at home.

    * Cranberry sauce
    * Cologne
    * Creamy dips and spreads
      (cheeses, peanut butter, etc.)
    * Gift baskets with food items
      (salsa, jams and salad dressings)
    * Gravy
    * Jams
    * Jellies
    * Lotions
    * Maple syrup
    * Oils and vinegars
    * Perfume
    * Salad dressing
    * Salsa
    * Sauces
    * Snowglobes
    * Soups
    * Wine, liquor and beer

Note: You can bring pies and cakes through the security checkpoint, but please be advised that they are subject to additional screening.

Remember! ľ do not wrap gifts you're taking on the plane. Security officers may have to unwrap gifts if they need to take a closer look. Please ship wrapped gifts ahead of time or wait until your destination to wrap them.

* Items purchased after the security checkpoint have been pre-screened and can be taken on the plane.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Tallpine on November 22, 2010, 11:48:19 AM
Quote
When it comes to bringing items through checkpoints, we've seen just about everything. Traveling with food or gifts is an even bigger challenge. Everyone has favorite foods from home that they want to bring to holiday dinners, or items from their destination that they want to bring back home.

Not sure about what you can and can't bring through the checkpoint?  Don't even think about flying.  You'd best drive instead.

Fixed it  ;)


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas on November 22, 2010, 12:01:15 PM
Quote
The apparent mindset of those who *would* become a terrorist is one of "the US killed a Muslim, I must avenge my brother".  This is a process that breeds as many as it kills.  
And those guys won't change unless they see the terrorist Muslims being killed as scumbags, IMO.
There are at least two kinds of people who read this story [torture mentioned]:
http://www.michaelyon-online.com/our-muslim-friends-suffer-too.htm
One kind says: "I'm never going into the military."
Another says: "I'm definitely going into the military. These bastards need to be shot down."
Some people react with fear, some react with anger.


Title: Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 22, 2010, 03:08:00 PM
gigglesnort. :lol:

http://today.msnbc.com/id/40318901/ns/travel-news/

Won't someone please think of the children UNION EMPLOYEES?

The Man The Public is puttin' us down and puttin' its boot to our head!

roflmao.

(do-dooo-dodido.) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEWgs6YQR9A)


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 22, 2010, 03:37:00 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/22/AR2010112205514.html?hpid=topnews

and the survey says....

Nearly two-thirds of Americans support the new full-body security-screening machines at the country's airports, as most say they put higher priority on combating terrorism than protecting personal privacy, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 22, 2010, 03:38:21 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/22/AR2010112205514.html?hpid=topnews

and the survey says....

Nearly two-thirds of Americans support the new full-body security-screening machines at the country's airports, as most say they put higher priority on combating terrorism than protecting personal privacy, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

That's neat of them.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Tallpine on November 22, 2010, 04:19:32 PM
And so this is how freedom dies - with applause  ;/


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: dogmush on November 22, 2010, 04:22:22 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/22/AR2010112205514.html?hpid=topnews

and the survey says....

Nearly two-thirds of Americans support the new full-body security-screening machines at the country's airports, as most say they put higher priority on combating terrorism than protecting personal privacy, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

Then nearly 2/3rds of Americans are Stupid, or have been snowed.

You know what we need?  Some sort of list of rules, or limits on what government is allowed to do.  That way if the mojority of folks get scared, snowed, conned, or just don't care the .gov will know what it's not allowed to do.  It could include things like being secure in your home and person.


.

.

.

Nevermind, some *expletive deleted*hole will just call it a "living document" and say that following it lets the terrorists win.

To quote myself from THR.us:

Quote
The whole point of the terrorist attacks on 9/11 was to change a free, prosperous country into something worse. I have to fly on orders next month, and I'm not going through a scanner. As I contemplate the thought of standing there in ACU's and letting my government feel my groin to make sure I don't have a bomb, I have to wonder if they didn't succeed beyond their wildest dreams.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Gowen on November 22, 2010, 04:24:41 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/22/AR2010112205514.html?hpid=topnews

and the survey says....

Nearly two-thirds of Americans support the new full-body security-screening machines at the country's airports, as most say they put higher priority on combating terrorism than protecting personal privacy, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

I trust that poll, like I trust the DNC not to raise taxes.  Who did they poll, 500 New Yorkers and 50 Pentagon workers?


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: BridgeRunner on November 22, 2010, 04:25:35 PM
And so this is how freedom dies - with applause  ;/

Every time.  =(


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: TommyGunn on November 22, 2010, 04:50:07 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/22/AR2010112205514.html?hpid=topnews

and the survey says....

Nearly two-thirds of Americans support the new full-body security-screening machines at the country's airports, as most say they put higher priority on combating terrorism than protecting personal privacy, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.
   [tinfoil]   Oh wonnerful ......


"Caesar si viveret ad remun da resis." ~~ "If Caesar were alive, you'd be chained to an oar."

--Then maybe the ABC news poll respondants would on a faster course to Hell .......  [tinfoil] >:D :facepalm: :facepalm:


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: lupinus on November 22, 2010, 05:03:11 PM
Every time.  =(
Could have at least given us a nice circus

Wait...we got congress.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: longeyes on November 22, 2010, 06:19:06 PM
Quote
and the survey says....

Nearly two-thirds of Americans support the new full-body security-screening machines at the country's airports, as most say they put higher priority on combating terrorism than protecting personal privacy, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

Only a small percentage of Americans fly frequently (under 10 per cent).  It's certainly understandable most wouldn't be that troubled by what's going on.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 22, 2010, 06:27:19 PM
Only a small percentage of Americans fly frequently (under 10 per cent).  It's certainly understandable most wouldn't be that troubled by what's going on.

The most objections came from those who fly with some frequency. Sixty percent of men who fly at least once a year say the new pat-down goes too far, compared with 48 percent of women.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: BridgeRunner on November 22, 2010, 06:43:20 PM
Of course, the ones who fly most frequently also bear the most risk of getting blown up, and somehow are still not impressed with TSA Kabuki.

But one of the reasons that I don't fly at least once a year is in substantial part because of the TSA.  I wonder what proportion of non-flyers fall into category entirely or in part because of the TSA?  I know several of us here do, but it's hardly a random sampling.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Ben on November 22, 2010, 07:11:53 PM
Of course, the ones who fly most frequently also bear the most risk of getting blown up, and somehow are still not impressed with TSA Kabuki.

Very good point. Just like with guns, what I eat, and what I drive -- the people who don't exercise freedoms I exercise always seem to be the ones who are most happy to restrict those freedoms, or to not care if those freedoms are restricted.

So people that aren't flying and aren't getting felt up think it's a great policy and that the rest of us should stop whining. Neato.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: RocketMan on November 22, 2010, 08:40:46 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/22/AR2010112205514.html?hpid=topnews

and the survey says....

Nearly two-thirds of Americans are also as dumb as a box of rocks.

There, it's been clarified for you.
I'm making my fourth business trip this year Saturday after next.  I am not looking forward to the TSA insecurity theater.  I may just buy a thong and make it easier for them to molest me.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: sanglant on November 22, 2010, 09:28:26 PM
cutting out the showers from now might be funny(redundant but still funny :laugh:)

but the best thing to do is charter. next choice for me would be flying with no less then 10 rifles/shotguns, and a pistol or two. [popcorn] intimidate the intimidators.

got a .50 cal?


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Angel Eyes on November 22, 2010, 09:51:25 PM

And the beat goes on ...

http://www.examiner.com/county-political-buzz-in-san-diego/tsa-airport-screeners-gone-wild-san-diego-again

Quote
the San Diego Harbor Police arrested an area resident for refusal to complete the screening/security process yesterday
...
Quote
The incident was confirmed by Harbor Police Sergeant Rakos who said Wolanyk was arrested on two misdemeanors, ôfailing to complete the security process; violation code 7.01 and illegally recording the San Diego Airport Authority (they confiscated his iPhone); violation number 7.14 (a).ö

Apparently there is a local ordinance that forbids recording of airport authority personnel.

Trivia note: Wolanyk successfully sued San Diego after he was arrested for openly carrying an unloaded firearm (which is not a crime in California).  He had the same legal representation (Jason Davis) as he does in this case.  Should be fun to watch the proceedings.



Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Boomhauer on November 22, 2010, 10:08:12 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/22/AR2010112205514.html?hpid=topnews

and the survey says....

Nearly two-thirds of Americans support the new full-body security-screening machines at the country's airports, as most say they put higher priority on combating terrorism than protecting personal privacy, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

I said on another forum that we should call these 2/3rd of "Americans" Americans In Name Only. AINO.

These people are going to be the ones that f*** it up (again) on Nov 6 2012 by electing either Obama or a RINO to the White House. They are a prime threat to our liberty (what's left of it, anyway).





Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Matthew Carberry on November 22, 2010, 11:30:37 PM
I'm buying a kilt.

I'm taking skivvies and trousers in my carry-on but wearing a kilt traditional style for going through security.

I plan on singing "Danny Boy" as the search begins and upping my register as the search nears the nads.

There's no regulation about singing, loudly.  If they try to shut me up I'm going all 1st Amendment on them.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Strings on November 22, 2010, 11:42:27 PM
Matt... what's your waist size.

I'll loan you one of my kilts, if you promise to get video!


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: erictank on November 23, 2010, 12:35:16 AM
Has anyone else observed that these supposed security procedures seem less designed to find explosives and weapons, and more designed to find cash, jewelry, drugs, etc ... ???

This times eleventy-BILLION.  Some have noticed - but those who matter most either are the ones who've implemented "administrative searches" which seem explicitly designed to get around those nasty, pesky Constitutional protections, or they SIMPLY DON'T CARE.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/22/AR2010112205514.html?hpid=topnews

and the survey says....

Nearly two-thirds of Americans support the new full-body security-screening machines at the country's airports, as most say they put higher priority on combating terrorism than protecting personal privacy, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

TSA has been claiming anywhere from 90-98%, at least until very recently.  Sad to say, the poll numbers would be a SUBSTANTIAL improvement...

And the beat goes on ...

http://www.examiner.com/county-political-buzz-in-san-diego/tsa-airport-screeners-gone-wild-san-diego-again
...
Apparently there is a local ordinance that forbids recording of airport authority personnel.

Trivia note: Wolanyk successfully sued San Diego after he was arrested for openly carrying an unloaded firearm (which is not a crime in California).  He had the same legal representation (Jason Davis) as he does in this case.  Should be fun to watch the proceedings.

Yup - bike-shorts guy, I read about him on TS&S.  I look forward to finding out how the charges against him will proceed, since it was *TSA* that refused to complete the required screening.  He was just making it easier for them to do so, if that was what they really, ACTUALLY wanted to do.

Note that the second charge against him was for recording public servants engaged in official duties in a public location with no legitimate expectation of privacy, a charge also filed against the bystander who was caught recording the incident, and BOTH of their expensive phones were stolen "confiscated". :mad: [ar15]  Wonder how *THAT'S* going to play out, too.  If one was tempted to emulate these protesters, might I recommend using the cheapest cameraphone capable of running something like Qik, which will stream video straight to the Web for storage and playback, so your evidence doesn't disappear - and have the phone set so that you need to log in manually every time you use it, so they can't get at it easily.

I'm buying a kilt.

I'm taking skivvies and trousers in my carry-on but wearing a kilt traditional style for going through security.

I plan on singing "Danny Boy" as the search begins and upping my register as the search nears the nads.

There's no regulation about singing, loudly.  If they try to shut me up I'm going all 1st Amendment on them.

TSA has gone on record in the past saying that the First Amendment does not apply at the checkpoint, Matthew.

I'm reasonably sure they've "officially" reversed that position since - people go through checkpoints wearing shirts like this one: http://trollkiller.spreadshirt.com/the-tsa-wants-to-see-me-naked-A4967364 (has copies of the web-available Nude-O-Scope male and female front and rear scans as a 4-panel pic on the front of the shirt, for those who don't want to click).  However, I consider it highly likely that the screener(s) will regard either the traditionally-worn kilt or the singing as "interfering with the screening process", and threaten you with arrest.  Whether an airport cop would actually DO it?  Dunno - but if they don't, I predict TSA will delay you as long as they can, to try to keep you from making your flight.

Having said that - second the call for video, man!  If provided, I'd like to link it to Flyertalk's Travel Safety & Security forum, with permission.  Most of the folks there would *LOVE* it, and would help to make whatever happens go viral.  The more we expose TSA's absurdity, pettiness, and disregard for the Constitution and the rights of their PAYING CUSTOMERS (the flying public), the better!  I have no plans to fly in the near future - can't afford it right this second anyways - but will have to try and acquire a kilt before doing so for that exact purpose.  Well, I probably wouldn't sing, myself...

Oh - be sure to *INSIST* on your screener changing his gloves, as is your right.  Tell him you want to see them come out of the box!  Also insist, prior to your frisk, that they ensure you can CLOSELY monitor your personal belongings from the x-ray machine - they have no problem ensuring you can't see them (and thus risk theft of any valuables), if you don't make a fuss about it.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: longeyes on November 23, 2010, 07:14:01 AM
Quote
I said on another forum that we should call these 2/3rd of "Americans" Americans In Name Only. AINO.

These people are going to be the ones that f*** it up (again) on Nov 6 2012 by electing either Obama or a RINO to the White House. They are a prime threat to our liberty (what's left of it, anyway).

+1

Two-thirds may be an overstatement, but maybe not.  Lots of political zombies out there.  They will not figure in the resolution of what's forming.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: 41magsnub on November 23, 2010, 07:36:26 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1332307/Now-abused-TSA-staff-vent-anger-security-patdown-searches.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1332307/Now-abused-TSA-staff-vent-anger-security-patdown-searches.html)

While I understand how frustrating their job might be, I'm just not working up any sympathy.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: longeyes on November 23, 2010, 08:02:38 AM
It's similar to the situation in the schools.  Go deal with the people who put you into a no-win situation.  Don't blame us.  The DHS and TSA have forgotten that they work for us.  How much credibility do they have left?  From here it appears they don't care any more if they're credible, they're just telling us they're the boss of us.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: adively on November 23, 2010, 08:13:45 AM
I believe the TSA Chief needs to find a brain and some common sense.

Quote
Transportation Security Administration chief John Pistole said on Monday that he disregarded internal advice to the contrary and decided not tell the public in advance about aggressive new screening and pat-down procedures for airline passengers, fearing terrorists could try to exploit the information.

http://nation.foxnews.com/airport-screening/2010/11/22/tsa-chief-admits-he-withheld-information-pat-downs (http://nation.foxnews.com/airport-screening/2010/11/22/tsa-chief-admits-he-withheld-information-pat-downs)


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 23, 2010, 08:33:41 AM
The more I hear about John Pistole, the more I want to hear about him being found after an experimental concrete shoe bath in the middle of the Potomac.

He's such a highspeedlowdrag wannabe, I can't stand him.  Constantly talking about taking the TSA "to the next level."  Increasing security beyond even this invasive affront to dignity and rights at the airports, and then expanding same system randomly around the US in other transportation venues.

Makes me think of FIST checkpoints in Enemies Foreign and Domestic.

DUDE:

THIS LEVEL IS OVER THE TOP BY ABOUT 4 LEVELS.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: longeyes on November 23, 2010, 08:48:04 AM
The DHS should never have been born.  One more great Bush accomplishment.  Let's not rehab him too quickly, folks.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: erictank on November 23, 2010, 09:03:22 AM
The DHS should never have been born.  One more great Bush accomplishment.  Let's not rehab him too quickly, folks.

To be fair, the Republican-controlled Congress (including the resident Democrats) fell all over thyemselves approving and funding it.  It ain't ALL on W.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: seeker_two on November 23, 2010, 09:06:02 AM
To be fair, the Republican-controlled Congress (including the resident Democrats) fell all over thyemselves approving and funding it.  It ain't ALL on W.

....and that shows the significant differences b/t the Republi-cons and the Demo-rats.....oh, wait....  :facepalm:


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 23, 2010, 09:14:39 AM
I have a creepy feeling that the current activities on the Korean peninsula are expressly intended to stop us talking about the TSA, and get it off the top of the Drudge page.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: TommyGunn on November 23, 2010, 09:24:46 AM
To be fair, the Republican-controlled Congress (including the resident Democrats) fell all over thyemselves approving and funding it.  It ain't ALL on W.

"We can't professionalize unless we federalize." ~~ Tom Daschle.

I knew when I heard that mind-numbing little bromide that we were going to get another government-imposed top-down bureaucracy and it would scr*w up our lives .....  [barf]

I don't particularly blame Shrubby, but OTOH he did nothing to dissuade anyone from imposing it on us.  =(


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: erictank on November 23, 2010, 10:00:17 AM
"We can't professionalize unless we federalize." ~~ Tom Daschle.

I knew when I heard that mind-numbing little bromide that we were going to get another government-imposed top-down bureaucracy and it would scr*w up our lives .....  [barf]

I don't particularly blame Shrubby, but OTOH he did nothing to dissuade anyone from imposing it on us.  =(

Oh, agreed completely.  He COULD have stopped it, but thought it was a wunnerful idear. :mad:


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: mtnbkr on November 23, 2010, 10:10:44 AM
Oh, agreed completely.  He COULD have stopped it, but thought it was a wunnerful idear. :mad:

As did much of the Republican Hallelujah Choir.  Back then, Dubya could do no wrong, despite all the warnings that you didn't want to leave those wonderful toys for the next Dem to get in office...

Chris


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 23, 2010, 10:13:57 AM
As did much of the Republican Hallelujah Choir.  Back then, Dubya could do no wrong, despite all the warnings that you didn't want to leave those wonderful toys for the next Dem to get in office...


^^ This plus eleventybajillion.

No one ever thinks of legislation/powers in terms of the harm they can do in the worst possible hands.

And then the worst possible hands constantly find a way to get those new powers.

And then We The People get to bear the brunt of it. :mad:


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Tallpine on November 23, 2010, 10:16:11 AM
I'm buying a kilt.

I'm taking skivvies and trousers in my carry-on but wearing a kilt traditional style for going through security.

I plan on singing "Danny Boy" as the search begins and upping my register as the search nears the nads.

There's no regulation about singing, loudly.  If they try to shut me up I'm going all 1st Amendment on them.

Yeah, the kilt thing crossed my mind, too - but I was thinking more of the feileadh m˛r (great wrap) and maybe no leine (shirt).  My belt would be all that is holding that on.  Would all that wool wrapped around you count as a "coat" or "jacket" ?   :lol:

Or maybe wear just a long overcoat....?  :O  =D

Oh yeah, in the past I've noticed that a heavy knitted pullover sweater is not a "coat" but a zippered sweatshirt is  ;/


Really though, my biggest personal issue with the new scanner/grope policy is that they apparently require you to surrender all of your personal belongings.  When traveling, I always carry an extra stash of significant cash and an extra credit card somewhere deeply concealed, like in a t-shirt pocket under a regular long sleeve button/snap shirt, just in case my wallet gets stolen hundreds or thousands of miles from home.  The TSA damn sure aren't going to take that from me  :mad:  >:D


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: longeyes on November 23, 2010, 10:25:02 AM
Buy a high mpg car and get used to driving.  It's coming to trains, buses, and subways.  And, yeah, try to avoid the roadblocks.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Matthew Carberry on November 23, 2010, 11:04:25 AM
Matt... what's your waist size.

I'll loan you one of my kilts, if you promise to get video!

34 inch waist

On second thought I might sing "Oh sweet mystery of love I've found you" in the style of Madeline Kahn in "Young Frankenstein". =)


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Angel Eyes on November 23, 2010, 11:26:46 AM

Remember that restaurant scene from When Harry Met Sally?

A female friend of mine has threatened to reenact it when she gets the pat down.



Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: adively on November 23, 2010, 12:01:12 PM
Roxi Copland- I'll be groped for Christmas (TSA Edition)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KucnZVKZfKQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KucnZVKZfKQ)


ETA: http://noblasters.com/post/1650102322/my-tsa-encounter (http://noblasters.com/post/1650102322/my-tsa-encounter) - Very interesting read...Guy comes into USA from France and TSA wants him to go through Backscatter or Pat-down to get into the Airport from customs.  All he is trying to do is leave for home not catch a flight.  Stand off ensues, but he wins.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Jocassee on November 23, 2010, 01:36:38 PM
Buy a high mpg car and get used to driving.  It's coming to trains, buses, and subways.  And, yeah, try to avoid the roadblocks.


This--I, and many others I am sure, cannot afford not to fly. I don't get PTO so it is literally cheaper for me to fly to, my friend's place in VT for the weekend than spend two days driving back and forth.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Gowen on November 23, 2010, 02:05:18 PM

This--I, and many others I am sure, cannot afford not to fly. I don't get PTO so it is literally cheaper for me to fly to, my friend's place in VT for the weekend than spend two days driving back and forth.

I'm sorry, I guess you won't have a problem when some unscrupulous TSA agent puts your wife's, your kid's or your naked pictures on the internet.  We just need to take it and turn the other cheek, but that cheek is in your pants.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: longeyes on November 23, 2010, 06:43:20 PM
The only answer is to scan everyone and everything all the time.  If that's not an electronic version of Allah the All-Seeing I don't know what is.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: BridgeRunner on November 23, 2010, 11:13:59 PM
Yeah, the kilt thing crossed my mind, too - but I was thinking more of the feileadh m˛r (great wrap) and maybe no leine (shirt).  My belt would be all that is holding that on.  Would all that wool wrapped around you count as a "coat" or "jacket" ?   :lol:

That could be awesome if some jackass demands you remove the belt, but a utilikilt or similar is stiff enough and tight enough over the hips, what with the sewn-down pleats that about the only way to do the testicular grope would be to reach up under.  Now we know why the gloves, I guess....

Hm, so...what do they do about women in pencil skirts or similar? 

Also--what about people with bandages?  People travel for surgery all the time.  What about "suspicious" feeling scars?  For years, if you ran your hand across my leg, it felt positively corrugated, from scars, and there people with far knottier and weirder feeling scars than mine.  Oh wow--next creepy thought:  This is America, land of the overgrown pannus.  If you've got eight inches of gut overhang, do they grope up under there?  Hope they change their gloves, before they give a yeast infection to the next person in line.  And this whole cupping the breast thing--that words for the cuties, but whole lots of women have graduated from "cup" to "softball in a tube sock"--how far up there are they gonna grope for bombs or stashes of cash? 

"Enhanced pat downs" are only useful to the extent that they can follow up on anything suspicion that turns up.  So, if sumdood is on his way home from surgery for testicular cancer, and they feel something thick taped up to the dude's groin, is that when they strip off surgical dressings to verify that it's not a bomb (or possibly a newly implanted bomb....hell, it might even be radioactive! 

Quote
Really though, my biggest personal issue with the new scanner/grope policy is that they apparently require you to surrender all of your personal belongings.  When traveling, I always carry an extra stash of significant cash and an extra credit card somewhere deeply concealed, like in a t-shirt pocket under a regular long sleeve button/snap shirt, just in case my wallet gets stolen hundreds or thousands of miles from home.  The TSA damn sure aren't going to take that from me  :mad:  >:D

Perhaps the solution is merely to grow an extremely large and deflated gut--unless they've implemented pannus inspections, maybe you could get away with tucking it up under there.  Personally, I've got a couple bras that are lined with thin but fairly stiff foam, and I could probably get some cash past an enhance pat-down--unless, along the lines  of musings above, they decide that my bras are subverting their ability to sufficiently fondle my boobs.  Wonder what happens then?



Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 24, 2010, 12:04:05 AM
"The secret of chipping away successfully is to continue to discuss the dynamiting of the whole damn mountain. How might that be contrived? How nice would that be? Then settle for dynamiting only half of it."


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 24, 2010, 05:26:20 AM
Only 48% (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLNE6AN02I20101124) now support the pat-downs.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Jocassee on November 24, 2010, 05:34:17 AM
I'm sorry, I guess you won't have a problem when some unscrupulous TSA agent puts your wife's, your kid's or your naked pictures on the internet.  We just need to take it and turn the other cheek, but that cheek is in your pants.

LOL at the cheek in pants comment.

Obviously there's no solution to this yet. But I don't believe simply circumventing the system is going to make it better. You will never get enough people to stop flying to make a difference IMO. But a small but determined majority, raising as much hell as possible whenever they are forced to endure this unconstitutional expansion of powers, might make a difference. I'm basically just waiting for a chance to fly so I can do some "direct action."


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: vaskidmark on November 24, 2010, 07:44:09 AM
Don't know how many of you have noticed the TV coverage of the TSA today.  What really has drawn my attention is the broadcasting of actual TSA goons conducting actual nekkid-picture scans and body-gropes.

Yes, the TV has shown the actual search procedures.  A few of them are not even putting the shadow circle around te hands as they do breasts and crotches, or over the juicy bits as they show the actual nekkid-picture scan screens.

What happened to the $11,000 fines and jail for the rest of your life if you filmed them?  [popcorn]

stay safe.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Tallpine on November 24, 2010, 08:26:07 AM
Quote
Perhaps the solution is merely to grow an extremely large and deflated gut

I think that I will pass on that  [barf]

OTOH, for skinny guys like me I have often thought that one could fashion a "false gut" where you could conceal most anything.  ;)


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: P5 Guy on November 24, 2010, 09:18:27 AM
Remember that restaurant scene from When Harry Met Sally?

A female friend of mine has threatened to reenact it when she gets the pat down.



Can I get a Tee shirt that says, "Can I get a happy ending with my pat down?"


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Tallpine on November 24, 2010, 10:38:48 AM
Just as an example of the insanity....

Remember back when they made such a big deal about unattended luggage?

The Billings airport had no room in back for the luggage scanner machines so they set them up right out in the middle of the public area right in front of the ticket counter.  When you check in your luggage, you have to carry it back to the end of the line to run it through the conveyor instead of handing it over to the clerk.

Well, the last time (several years ago) that I flew, they were shorthanded I guess and just told us all to leave our luggage in a pile by the machine and go on through security.

WTF?  :O

So first of all, anybody else could have just grabbed a suitcase and made off right out the door to the street.  =(

Secondly, you could have a bomb in your bag and walk outside right before it detonates.  ;/


So please don't tell me that the TSA cares anything about "security".


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: seeker_two on November 24, 2010, 10:54:10 AM
Just job security...


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Tallpine on November 24, 2010, 12:32:48 PM
Just job security...

Ain't that the truth...  ;/

Then there was the time (maybe even the same trip...?) when I had an uncased circuit board for an aircraft power supply module in my suitcase.  I waited around at the luggage scanner and even talked to the TSA guy before my bag went through so hopefully they wouldn't freak out and evacuate the airport or something.  He was totally okay with it before and after and didn't seem to even understand why I would think there might be an issue with it.

Soooo... let me get this straight: my laptop(s) must be carried on and run through the security gate scanner, but some weird electrical board with unknown components is fine to just load in the belly of the airplane  ???


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Monkeyleg on November 24, 2010, 04:08:31 PM
Why can't we have the Israeli's come over and show us how to do this? All we're doing is taking reactive measures: a guy tries to light his shoe, we require passengers to take off shoes; somebody gets a potentially explosive liquid on board, we restrict liquids; some guy puts an explosive in his underwear, we require searches of private parts.

To the best of my knowledge, the Israeli's do none of this to the average air traveller.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 24, 2010, 04:11:51 PM
Why can't we have the Israeli's come over and show us how to do this? All we're doing is taking reactive measures: a guy tries to light his shoe, we require passengers to take off shoes; somebody gets a potentially explosive liquid on board, we restrict liquids; some guy puts an explosive in his underwear, we require searches of private parts.

To the best of my knowledge, the Israeli's do none of this to the average air traveller.

Can I know where this alternative Israel exists? I want a ticket.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: TommyGunn on November 24, 2010, 04:34:38 PM
Israel does a far better job insofar as screening individuals.  They have, however, far fewer airflights to deal with than our country.
If we could make their system work here, great.  It would require expanding the TSA maybe 200 fold...and getting to the airport six hours ahead of the flight....maybe. 


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Angel Eyes on November 24, 2010, 04:48:21 PM
Can I get a Tee shirt that says, "Can I get a happy ending with my pat down?"

Is this close enough?

http://janetalia.com/

Definitely NSFW (as if the URL wasn't clear on that)



Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Monkeyleg on November 24, 2010, 04:52:35 PM
MicroBalrog, that's what I've read and heard from probably hundreds of sources since the 9/11 attacks. Would you mind detailing what is wrong with what I posted?

Quote
Israel does a far better job insofar as screening individuals.  They have, however, far fewer airflights to deal with than our country.
If we could make their system work here, great.  It would require expanding the TSA maybe 200 fold...and getting to the airport six hours ahead of the flight....maybe.

What is our ratio of flights compared to Israel's, and what is the ratio of our number of screening agents compared to theirs? It sounds like you're throwing out a blanket "200 fold" when we don't know the numbers. We have, what, 65,000 TSA agents now? How many have the Israeli's?


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Angel Eyes on November 24, 2010, 04:59:19 PM

Folks on gizmodo are reporting that the backscatter machines are shut down in many airports:

http://gizmodo.com/comment/33032822

Did the TSA just blink in the face of Opt-Out Day?


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: adively on November 24, 2010, 05:14:31 PM
Folks on gizmodo are reporting that the backscatter machines are shut down in many airports:

http://gizmodo.com/comment/33032822

Did the TSA just blink in the face of Opt-Out Day?


I do believe they did just blink, because the MSM is saying that there where not that many opt-outs today so the protest wasn't affective.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 24, 2010, 05:50:20 PM
Quote
MicroBalrog, that's what I've read and heard from probably hundreds of sources since the 9/11 attacks. Would you mind detailing what is wrong with what I posted?

In my experience, passengers are searched/patted down thoroughly, and their checked luggage is inspected in detail (as in they will run it through an X-ray machine and then open it and inspect it in your presence, sometimes twice by separate agents. GSS personnel will question not only the passenger leaving the airport, but persons accompanying them, asking what they did in the country, where they went, what sites did they visit etc. I was questioned in detail both times when I accompanied my fiancee to the airport. This is in addition to the metal detectors/etc. at the entry to the airport. This was of course at a time before these new X-ray machines, so these were not present.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: erictank on November 24, 2010, 06:27:31 PM
Folks on gizmodo are reporting that the backscatter machines are shut down in many airports:

http://gizmodo.com/comment/33032822

Did the TSA just blink in the face of Opt-Out Day?

Blogger Bob over on Propaganda Village (FT&T's term for the TSA blog, at http://blog.tsa.gov/) claims that National Opt-Out day was an utter failure, that opt-outs were very few and far between (even moreso than normal) and that indications are that the American public at large thinks that the whole issue is overblown, at best.  He makes no mention of the documented fact that many airports with nude-o-scopes had them out-of-service for the day, that those which used them at all did so FAR less often than they had last week,, that screeners were under orders to be in their VERY BEST BEHAVIOR for a change, that the frisks were FAR less bad-mannered and intrusive and rough than they were last week, and that some of Blogger Bob's claims for opt-out numbers are UTTER FABRICATIONS, according to people who were actually at some of the airports he listed as having next-to-no opt-outs (he claimed no opt-outs at Denver, for example, and someone who was one of 5 opt-outs to go through at or around the same time called him on it in the comments).  He attempts to make opting-out to be about opting out of the FRISK, rather than the nude-o-scope.  He ignores that all the people not chosen for nude-o-scope CAN'T opt-out.  He ignores that air-travel levels are *WAY* down from last year - multiple flyers commented on FT&T about being able to change their tickets to pretty much wherever they wanted to, when they could not last year.

Real reports from the field seem to indicate that TSA did indeed blink.  And is now attempting to deny that they did. ;/


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: TommyGunn on November 24, 2010, 08:41:08 PM
What is our ratio of flights compared to Israel's, and what is the ratio of our number of screening agents compared to theirs? It sounds like you're throwing out a blanket "200 fold" when we don't know the numbers. We have, what, 65,000 TSA agents now? How many have the Israeli's?

I heard the figures on a radio report but I don't recall them at this point.  The real point of my post was not scientific accuracy but simply to point out that Israel is a small country and their air traffic is much less than ours.

I despise what's happening with air security and have heard many media reports that make me want to cringe.  I'm not certain I have any great solutions for what's going on; I simply think we're putting on "security theater" and that if/when the terrorists want to hit us again they'll find a "work-around" to get by the security or simply attack in a different way, or a different area of society, and then like idiot robots we'll get ticked and go provide more "security theater" where-ever else that is.....


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: fistful on November 24, 2010, 08:55:38 PM
Obviously there's no solution to this yet. But I don't believe simply circumventing the system is going to make it better. You will never get enough people to stop flying to make a difference IMO. But a small but determined majority, raising as much hell as possible whenever they are forced to endure this unconstitutional expansion of powers, might make a difference. I'm basically just waiting for a chance to fly so I can do some "direct action."

Both approaches should be implemented, obviously.

Don't know how many of you have noticed the TV coverage of the TSA today.  What really has drawn my attention is the broadcasting of actual TSA goons conducting actual nekkid-picture scans and body-gropes.

Yes, the TV has shown the actual search procedures.  A few of them are not even putting the shadow circle around te hands as they do breasts and crotches, or over the juicy bits as they show the actual nekkid-picture scan screens.

Excellent. It's as if the TV news-folk are on our side. Maybe they do a lot of flying.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 24, 2010, 09:11:11 PM
I heard the figures on a radio report but I don't recall them at this point.  The real point of my post was not scientific accuracy but simply to point out that Israel is a small country and their air traffic is much less than ours.

I despise what's happening with air security and have heard many media reports that make me want to cringe.  I'm not certain I have any great solutions for what's going on; I simply think we're putting on "security theater" and that if/when the terrorists want to hit us again they'll find a "work-around" to get by the security or simply attack in a different way

(http://www.fiatforum.com/gallery/data/500/handheld-stinger-missile.jpg)


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 24, 2010, 09:12:21 PM
And for something more obscure:

(http://www.saper.etel.ru/mines-3/ptpm-2.jpg)


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Matthew Carberry on November 24, 2010, 10:46:00 PM
Wait til a high travel day and put suicide (hell non-suicide would work) bombers with tens of pounds of semtex and ball bearings in their luggage into the lines of hundreds of folks waiting for screening, waiting for bag check or ticketing, waiting for arriving loved ones and waiting to pick up bags, all in non-secured areas.

Fire off sequentially or simultaneously depending on the flow of panicked crowds.

Then trigger the car bombs on the arrival and departure ramps after the survivors flood the exits.

Then wait a bit and blow the IEDs on the access roads to kill the first responders.

Then have the folks with fake IDs, even now still getting flight line jobs, blow up loaded aircraft at the gates and/or drive loaded fuel trucks into the aircraft stacked for takeoff and post-explosion being held on taxiways and watch those travellers burn to death.

Chance of it being caught by security kabuki?

-Zero-

Planeloads of people killed or maimed at even just one airport?  Hard to total.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 24, 2010, 11:17:29 PM
Which brings us to how REAL security works.

Dozens of people like this, training, organizing these acts... dozens of people needed to recruit them.... dozens of people helping in the logistical aspects.. this is where such an operation would rise or fall.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Matthew Carberry on November 24, 2010, 11:21:56 PM
Which brings us to how REAL security works.

Dozens of people like this, training, organizing these acts... dozens of people needed to recruit them.... dozens of people helping in the logistical aspects.. this is where such an operation would rise or fall.

Exactly.

But let's keep missing test objects in carry-ons at the same rate as private screeners pre-9/11 while molesting children and the elderly using methods that wouldn't even prevent the actual failed threats we are supposedly reacting to.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: vaskidmark on November 25, 2010, 04:32:34 AM
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=232457

Quote
Syphilis, lice, gonorrhea, ringworm, chlamydia, staph, strep, noro and papilloma viruses all are part of the possible fringe benefits when airline passengers next go through a full hands-on pat-down by agents of the federal government's Transportation Security Administration, according to doctors.

WND reported two days ago on alarmed passengers who noted that TSA agents doing the pat-downs that have been described by critics as molestation since they include touching private body parts were not changing gloves between passengers. In fact, some apparently were patting down dozens of passengers or more wearing the same gloves.

But neither the TSA nor federal agencies such as the Centers for Disease Control was willing to comment on the possibilities that infections and other loathsome afflictions could be passed from passenger to passenger.


1 - Granted WND is not the most authritative source out there.

2 - do not click the link if you do not want to view a close-up photo of a louse (6-legged)

3 - Ewwwwwwwww!  Icky!

4 - Yes, folks were supposed to be demanding that the gropers change gloves, but I'm not hearing/seeing a whole lot of that happening.

5 - If you come down with something, could you sue TSA?  Even more importantly, will your significant other believe you?

stay safe.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 25, 2010, 04:50:50 AM
point 1 was well taken    its always bad when you start with wnd  is newmax in concurrence? how about mr jones?


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: jamisjockey on November 25, 2010, 06:06:36 AM
point 1 was well taken    its always bad when you start with wnd  is newmax in concurrence? how about mr jones?

Why are you so desperate to defend the fed.gov on this one?


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 25, 2010, 06:20:20 AM
me desperate?!  you see how strong the protest was at  regan/national yesterday? theres is an element of desperation here  but ....
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/24/AR2010112406989.html?hpid%3Dnewswell&sub=AR


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: jamisjockey on November 25, 2010, 06:53:10 AM
Again, you're desperatly deflecting the arguments presented and engaging in ad hom attacks. 
Maybe I missed your counter arguement in the pages and pages that the discussion has become. 


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 25, 2010, 06:59:19 AM
the counter to?
the courts have ruled . till someone figures a way to change that ....?
so far there isn't even much smoke here   much less fire


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: dogmush on November 25, 2010, 07:12:42 AM
the courts have ruled . till someone figures a way to change that ....?

We have figured out a way to change that.  Get enough people riled up and pissed off, then turn that pissed on congress (or Executive branch) untill they tell TSA to quit. (or disband it)  If that fails, fire the legislators (or executive) and repeat with the new hires.

This is Phase I.

Welcome to plan.

Remember: The first rule of the Revolution is we don't talk about the Revolution.  Also the new guy brings the beer.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: TommyGunn on November 25, 2010, 08:08:47 AM
And for something more obscure:

(http://www.saper.etel.ru/mines-3/ptpm-2.jpg)

I see it's a type of "saper" mine from the URL.
Yeah, something like this.  The Stinger ... or Redeye  missile was another thought; I'm not too sure how many there are out in the black and grey markets.  I think the Russkies have one (they used to have something called a "Strella" but I don't know about their more modern versions).
But I have thought about a plane being loaded with passengers that have all been anally probed, X-rayed, felt-up, examined via tricorder, and sniffer tested, and then the plane takes off .... and at the end of the runway up pops a terrorist with a shoulder launched SAM and *BOOM!!*  the plane goes down into the East River.....


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: jamisjockey on November 25, 2010, 08:16:05 AM
We have figured out a way to change that.  Get enough people riled up and pissed off, then turn that pissed on congress (or Executive branch) untill they tell TSA to quit. (or disband it)  If that fails, fire the legislators (or executive) and repeat with the new hires.

This is Phase I.

Welcome to plan.

Remember: The first rule of the Revolution is we don't talk about the Revolution.  Also the new guy brings the beer.

This.

The courts are wrong.  Wearing a black robe doesn't make one right every time.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 25, 2010, 09:00:06 AM
Get enough people riled up and pissed off,


phase one is not working  you had one guy at regan yesterday
where was there a stronger showing?




The courts are wrong.  Wearing a black robe doesn't make one right every time.
thinking they are wrong generates lil traction  unless you can get another ruling  supreme court is where you gotta go and i wouldn't get your hopes up there


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: longeyes on November 25, 2010, 10:52:46 AM
We already knew there were way too many sheeple in America. 


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 25, 2010, 11:14:54 AM
and obviously almost no real revolutionaries. at least very few in the tangible noninternet sense. come on  one guy at the dc airport? one at bwi?what was dulles like? planes are full so i don't see an "optout/boycott" doing much so far.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: jamisjockey on November 25, 2010, 11:54:13 AM
Get enough people riled up and pissed off,


phase one is not working  you had one guy at regan yesterday
where was there a stronger showing?




The courts are wrong.  Wearing a black robe doesn't make one right every time.
thinking they are wrong generates lil traction  unless you can get another ruling  supreme court is where you gotta go and i wouldn't get your hopes up there
;/
Because we all have time to drop our holiday plans and protest.  Emails to our elected politicans are a better and more effective tactic.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Tallpine on November 25, 2010, 04:00:22 PM
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/71281.html



Quote
Make up your own mind. What terrifies you the most. Terrorists, who in all likelihood you will never encounter in your lifetime, or the TSA that you will encounter every time you fly and soon, according to Pistole, every time you take a train, a subway, or drive in a car or truck?


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 25, 2010, 04:11:21 PM
;/
Because we all have time to drop our holiday plans and protest.  Emails to our elected politicans are a better and more effective tactic.

all?  no
more than one? yea
and where was the groundswell of optouts?
travel was a breeze for my family


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: jamisjockey on November 25, 2010, 04:47:30 PM
all?  no
more than one? yea
and where was the groundswell of optouts?
travel was a breeze for my family

Awful hard to opt out if you don't have a flight planned for that day.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 25, 2010, 04:50:24 PM
air travel was up  in spite of allegations to the contrary   and in spite of higher fares
surely some of those traveling were some of the outraged ones?


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 25, 2010, 04:51:53 PM
me desperate?!  you see how strong the protest was at  regan/national yesterday? theres is an element of desperation here  but ....
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/24/AR2010112406989.html?hpid%3Dnewswell&sub=AR


So... what exactly is the point of this post?

Are you arguing that we should change our minds just because we're in the minority? (assuming we are, that is).


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: jamisjockey on November 25, 2010, 04:58:28 PM
So... what exactly is the point of this post?

Are you arguing that we should change our minds just because we're in the minority? (assuming we are, that is).


He's saying that just because there was only a few protestors outside of the airports that obviously we don't have the testicular fortitutde to back up our outrage by opting out.
Just another CSAD circular argument.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 25, 2010, 05:01:55 PM
Oh, so instead of an argument about whether we are correct, this has become an ad-hominem argument (in the real sense of that word) about the moral quality of the average libertarian?  =D


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 25, 2010, 05:09:40 PM
close i'm saying that most folks are much more activist on the internet than in real life. and heck we're in the use it or lose it time of the year for fed employees and annual leave so if there is gonna be a groundswell now's the time.
its my impression that there are a number of genuinely concerned folks  and they are surrounded by folks who wanna play on the team so long as its fun and easy. the political equivalent of the suburban white kids with their hats on backwards in a car mommy bought em with spinners trying to pretend they are gang connected.
those hangers on are not going to do much, and i suspect there are not enough of the other group to make a dent.
has anyone filed a decent suit yet?  actually filed  not talked about it

i'm glad i checked before i posted

about the moral quality of the average libertarian?
what is an average libertarian?  thats a hard thing to categorize.
they are a lot like members of my church  many claim to be members and show up for easter and xmas mass. they don't get much done that way


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: sanglant on November 25, 2010, 05:42:18 PM
[left field]how long till every bill over a 5 has a printed rfid chip?[\left field] =| and, at that point crooks could scan you from 25+ feet away and decide if your worth robbing.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 25, 2010, 05:49:47 PM
Quote
close i'm saying that most folks are much more activist on the internet than in real life. and heck we're in the use it or lose it time of the year for fed employees and annual leave so if there is gonna be a groundswell now's the time.

We knew this. But what does this have to do with the thread topic? Are you saying we should change our minds on our views based on polling the voting public?


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 25, 2010, 06:00:27 PM
which thread topic?  there are three merged. i don't think you should change your minds just don't expect to get much traction


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: freakazoid on November 25, 2010, 06:49:27 PM
Come December 22 I will be flying out of Washington DC, and sometime in January I will be flying to San Diego. Should be fun,  ;/

edit - On people with things like prosthetic breasts and whatnot, couldn't there be grounds for some sort of HIPAA violations?


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 25, 2010, 10:36:41 PM
how hipaa? tsa isn't a medical pro


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: vaskidmark on November 26, 2010, 04:17:46 AM
Agreed, TSA is not involved with medical records.

But give the guy his due for thinking, would ya?  He's aware that making amputees take off their prosthetic to the point of exposing the residual stump both is invasive as hell and actually may expose them to medical consequences.

Besides being onsessed with the lack of folks who supposedly talked big but wimped out on actually performing, what have you contributed to the conversation or to the issue?  And speaking of which, where did you get your figures to support the notion that lots of folks talked big but failed to perform?

stay safe.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 26, 2010, 04:36:00 AM
Several airports removed their X-rays for one day - making it impossible to opt-out.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: longeyes on November 26, 2010, 07:33:43 AM
Interesting how as Big Gov gets less transparent We the People increasingly become an open book...


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: CNYCacher on November 26, 2010, 07:37:47 AM
Interesting how as Big Gov gets less transparent We the People increasingly become an open book...

(http://techpark.lt/gallery/albums/abrozdeliai/security_vs_privacy.jpg)


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Tallpine on November 26, 2010, 07:57:22 AM
Awful hard to opt out if you don't have a flight planned for that day.


Isn't Not Flying the ultimate opt-out  ???


My last business trip (two years ago :( ) I drove 800 miles instead of flying.  So then I had my car to drive, saving the rental.  It actually saved the company money, and the per mile they paid me went way above the gas, which helps out on the overhead of a newer car.

Weather permitting, we're planning to drive 3000 miles round trip for a wedding in about a month.  I won't fly, period.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 26, 2010, 08:33:16 AM
CSD:  I've read several reports that SeaTac, DFW, Dulles, LAX, PHX and POR (just people I've either talked to or read about online) had their nekkid scanners roped off for Wednesday and they weren't using them at all.

Impossible to opt-out if there's no demand to be opted-in.

The TSA deliberately took the machines offline so that the protest was non-existent.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: adively on November 26, 2010, 10:31:25 AM
It is all about control and not security.  If it was about security, why are numerous people at FTF reporting that the nude-o-scopes not being used at all on one of the busiest travel days of the year.  Wouldn't a terrorist wanting to maximize the carnage carry out a plan on one of these days?  http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/30286 (http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/30286)

Quote
It labels any person who ôinterferesö with TSA airport security screening procedure protocol and operations by actively objecting to the established screening process, ôincluding but not limited to the anticipated national opt-out dayö as a ôdomestic extremist.ö The label is then broadened to include ôany person, group or alternative media sourceö that actively objects to, causes others to object to, supports and/or elicits support for anyone who engages in such travel disruptions at U.S. airports in response to the enhanced security procedures.

For individuals who engaged in such activity at screening points, it instructs TSA operations to obtain the identities of those individuals and other applicable information and submit the same electronically to the Homeland Environment Threat Analysis Division, the Extremism and Radicalization branch of the Office of Intelligence & Analysis (IA) division of the Department of Homeland Security.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: seeker_two on November 26, 2010, 07:12:59 PM

edit - On people with things like prosthetic breasts and whatnot, couldn't there be grounds for some sort of HIPAA violations?

HIPPA, no.....but I'd love to see a group bring a class-action Americans with Disabilities Act suit against TSA and the airports....


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 26, 2010, 10:36:40 PM
CSD:  I've read several reports that SeaTac, DFW, Dulles, LAX, PHX and POR (just people I've either talked to or read about online) had their nekkid scanners roped off for Wednesday and they weren't using them at all.

Impossible to opt-out if there's no demand to be opted-in.

The TSA deliberately took the machines offline so that the protest was non-existent.

they were on at regan  no fuss either


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: longeyes on November 27, 2010, 07:40:43 AM
Americans may be blase' now; they won't be when the surveillance spreads to trains, boats, buses, subways, and random auto-stops.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: jamisjockey on November 27, 2010, 09:02:24 AM
Americans may be blase' now; they won't be when the surveillance spreads to trains, boats, buses, subways, and random auto-stops.

Hell, backscatter won't even need a "stop". Just a roll through checkpoint.  Maybe under the guise of DUI checkpoints or construction.

Private boats are already subject to search under the guise of safety inspections.  The USCG can and has stopped me before without cause, other than just being on the water.  And now as part of their standard questioning they ask if you have a gun.  Horror stories abound of legal gun owning citizens being detained and questioned for simply bringing their firearm onboard a boat.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 27, 2010, 09:38:27 AM
i've heard s few of those stories
but only a few
they use that scanning on containerized freight  has to move pretty slow


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Tallpine on November 27, 2010, 09:51:28 AM
Quote
Horror stories abound of legal gun owning citizens being detained and questioned for simply bringing their firearm onboard a boat.

Land of the Free, Home of the Brave

 ;/


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: vaskidmark on November 27, 2010, 10:40:22 AM
Land of the Free, Home of the Brave

 ;/

Are you aware of the amount of water that is controlled by the Corps of Engineers?  There are even some places where the land up to the water line is state park and carry/possession of firearms is legal, but if you walk out on a dock or otherwise cross the line you are committing a federal felony.

And Maryland, as an example, owns the Potomac river up to the high-tide line of the Virginia shore.  Look up the gambling casinos that used to operate just over the water and outside the municipal/state territory of Colonial Beach, Virginia.  The gambling is gone but the booze rules change from one state to the other.

stay safe.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 27, 2010, 10:49:00 AM
still some gambling in colonial beach on the pier


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Tallpine on November 27, 2010, 11:17:04 AM
Are you aware of the amount of water that is controlled by the Corps of Engineers?  There are even some places where the land up to the water line is state park and carry/possession of firearms is legal, but if you walk out on a dock or otherwise cross the line you are committing a federal felony.

It's really long past time for a revolution.  :mad:

But I'm just too old and tired, so I'm trying to live out my life on The Rim.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 27, 2010, 01:55:30 PM
Americans may be blase' now; they won't be when the surveillance spreads to trains, boats, buses, subways, and random auto-stops.

But Longeyes, you know full well that using the public roads is a privilege, not a right! When you applied for your driver's license, you already agreed to the rectal exam.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: longeyes on November 27, 2010, 04:04:52 PM
Government should not be a form of colonoscopy.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 27, 2010, 04:57:18 PM
Government should not be a form of colonoscopy.

More and more, colonoscopy seems to be an adequate name for our form of government.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Tallpine on November 28, 2010, 08:58:42 AM
More and more, colonoscopy seems to be an adequate name for our form of government.

Well, there are certainly some substances common to both  =(


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: sanglant on November 28, 2010, 12:08:37 PM
rubber gloves and whiskey? ???


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: jamisjockey on November 28, 2010, 01:13:29 PM
rubber gloves and whiskey? ???
Some might call that a recipe for a good date. 


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: seeker_two on November 28, 2010, 02:07:55 PM

rubber gloves and whiskey? ???

Some might call that a recipe for a good date. 

.......or an even better Firefly episode....


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: fistful on November 28, 2010, 02:10:52 PM
A very special hell


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Tallpine on November 29, 2010, 09:45:24 AM
rubber gloves and whiskey? ???

I was referring to the brown stuff...  ;/


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: sanglant on November 29, 2010, 09:53:03 AM
and i was makin' with the funny. ;/


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: longeyes on November 29, 2010, 12:01:55 PM
Welcome to the Proctarchy!


Title: Read the Fourth Amendment, perverts.
Post by: Jocassee on December 03, 2010, 02:21:19 PM
And other assorted goodies, printed in metallic ink for easy viewing by infringers.

http://cargocollective.com/4thamendment#802062/Perverts-Printed-Underclothes


Title: Re: Read the Fourth Amendment, perverts.
Post by: charby on December 03, 2010, 02:38:19 PM
And other assorted goodies, printed in metallic ink for easy viewing by infringers.

http://cargocollective.com/4thamendment#802062/Perverts-Printed-Underclothes

no fat guy sizes


Title: Re: Read the Fourth Amendment, perverts.
Post by: CNYCacher on December 03, 2010, 07:42:12 PM
no fat guy sizes

Even the TSA doesn't want to see us!


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Boomhauer on December 03, 2010, 08:46:46 PM
Americans may be blase' now; they won't be when the surveillance spreads to trains, boats, buses, subways, and random auto-stops.

Doubt that. DUI checkpoints have conditioned people to accept random checkpoints.

We who see the grave threat to liberty are in the minority. This anger over the scanners and TSA employees copping feels? It'll soon be forgotten, I think.





Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Oleg Volk on December 03, 2010, 11:15:16 PM
(http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/38912-2/tsa_victim_2800.jpg) (https://www.lifelibertyetc.com/Products/TShirts/TSA-Checkpoint-TShirt)


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: roo_ster on December 04, 2010, 06:17:14 AM
(http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/38912-2/tsa_victim_2800.jpg) (https://www.lifelibertyetc.com/Products/TShirts/TSA-Checkpoint-TShirt)

"I feel...dirty."

"I feel...raped."

"I feel...jazzed."

"I flew Pattiefingers Air and all I got was this 3oz tube of Astroglide."

"Who knew Ben Dover worked for TSA?"

"Two by two, hands of blue..."

"I never expected the first time I'd get felt up it would be by another man and in public."

"Cold hands! Cold hands!"

"Astroglide: in hand new Federal Trial-sized package."


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: jamisjockey on December 04, 2010, 07:43:13 AM
Doubt that. DUI checkpoints have conditioned people to accept random checkpoints.

We who see the grave threat to liberty are in the minority. This anger over the scanners and TSA employees copping feels? It'll soon be forgotten, I think.

I would expect DUI checkpoints to even be used as part of the scheme.  A few TSA guys and a mobile backscatter van along with local LEO's conducting DUI checks. 


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Doggy Daddy on December 05, 2010, 02:43:16 PM
(http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/38912-2/tsa_victim_2800.jpg) (https://www.lifelibertyetc.com/Products/TShirts/TSA-Checkpoint-TShirt)

The TSA people took away everything I had with me, except this bottle of holy water.  For some reason they seemed scared to touch it.

DD


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Tallpine on December 06, 2010, 08:07:22 AM
I got raped by the TSA and all I got was this lousy t-shirt :(


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: CNYCacher on December 07, 2010, 08:07:07 AM
(http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ld2c532Mhi1qa5dn4o1_500.jpg)


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Nightfall on December 08, 2010, 02:25:36 PM
My wife just called to relay her wonderful experience with the fine folks at the TSA. Apparently, while going through the nude-o-scope, the underwire on her bra looked threatening. So she had the pleasure of a government employee's hands getting intimately acquainted with her breasts, before she was deemed 'not a terrorist.'  ;/ I'm thinking since she wears a DD, she's probably going to get felt up on a fairly regular basis now, no doubt because her bra could kill us all.  :facepalm:


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Angel Eyes on December 08, 2010, 03:48:34 PM
(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/1193/jinglebells.png) (http://img72.imageshack.us/i/jinglebells.png/)



Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Boomhauer on December 08, 2010, 04:46:42 PM
My wife just called to relay her wonderful experience with the fine folks at the TSA. Apparently, while going through the nude-o-scope, the underwire on her bra looked threatening. So she had the pleasure of a government employee's hands getting intimately acquainted with her breasts, before she was deemed 'not a terrorist.'  ;/ I'm thinking since she wears a DD, she's probably going to get felt up on a fairly regular basis now, no doubt because her bra could kill us all.  :facepalm:

I'm assuming they had a female TSA employee cop the feel. Did she (the TSA employee) look butch?



Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on December 08, 2010, 04:53:03 PM
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/12/alleged_wannabe_terrorist_caught_in_sting_feared_an_fbi_trap.php


another one   home boy


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Angel Eyes on December 08, 2010, 04:58:35 PM
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/12/alleged_wannabe_terrorist_caught_in_sting_feared_an_fbi_trap.php


What does this have to do with TSA?


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on December 08, 2010, 05:07:42 PM
tsa?  nothin
just another hard to profile home grown terrorist


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Amy Schumer on December 08, 2010, 06:17:48 PM
tsa?  nothin
just another hard to profile home grown terrorist


Hmmmm, young, muslim male.   Nope, I'd say fits the profile.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on December 08, 2010, 06:20:34 PM
american born latino with wife and kid   how would you profile that?


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on December 08, 2010, 06:28:45 PM
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001245997338&sk=wall#!/profile.php?id=100001245997338&v=info

In the name of Allah oft forgivig most merciful.IM just a yung brotha from the wrong side of the tracks who embraced Islam. Asalaamualaykum to the muslim ummah I love yall but im worried, were are we gonna be ten years from now idk only Allah does and HE knows best. We gotta rise up inshallah and continue the establishment of Islam on the earth with the help and guidence of Allah we can ya muslimeen!!! rise up ! we are the khalifas of the world. Were are the Lions of this ummah?!!


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Nightfall on December 08, 2010, 06:35:33 PM
I'm assuming they had a female TSA employee cop the feel. Did she (the TSA employee) look butch?

Female TSA agent, and yes, a little butch.  =D


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: roo_ster on December 08, 2010, 06:48:25 PM
Female TSA agent, and yes, a little butch.  =D

I'd still prefer the rat.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: jamisjockey on December 09, 2010, 06:35:19 AM
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001245997338&sk=wall#!/profile.php?id=100001245997338&v=info

In the name of Allah oft forgivig most merciful.IM just a yung brotha from the wrong side of the tracks who embraced Islam. Asalaamualaykum to the muslim ummah I love yall but im worried, were are we gonna be ten years from now idk only Allah does and HE knows best. We gotta rise up inshallah and continue the establishment of Islam on the earth with the help and guidence of Allah we can ya muslimeen!!! rise up ! we are the khalifas of the world. Were are the Lions of this ummah?!!
I'll try again anyways.  I'm dense like that.

-Its no longer about preventing terror.  It hasn't been for a long time.  Its about over reaching government desperate to justify stripping us of our liberties and monies.  Without increasing threats from terror, TSA can't justify its budget.
There are scores of ways to keep travel reasonably safe without trampling our rights and liberties.  Metal detectors, Xray machines, and bomb sniffing dogs.  Better trained gate and security agents.  The "random" pat downs and nudoscopes have gone too far.  Simply by trying to fly, we are being treated as criminal suspects.  Because yes, thats the kind of treatment you get when you're arrested.
In this day and age of interstate and international commerce, traveling by air is an essential liberty, necessary to economic freedom and growth. 

Obviously, you are happy to trade your liberty for statist security.  The TSA has already made it clear they want to field this type of "security" at stadiums, bus terminals, and even random checkpoints.  Give a little, they take alot. 


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: CNYCacher on December 09, 2010, 06:47:04 AM
(http://enduringsense1.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/tsa.jpg?w=620&h=542)


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: MicroBalrog on December 09, 2010, 06:49:12 AM
You expect me to be scared of a guy so stupid he can't spell the title of his own God?

Quote
In the name of Allah oft forgivig most merciful.IM just a yung brotha from the wrong side of the tracks who embraced Islam. Asalaamualaykum to the muslim ummah I love yall but im worried, were are we gonna be ten years from now idk only Allah does and HE knows best. We gotta rise up inshallah and continue the establishment of Islam on the earth with the help and guidence of Allah we can ya muslimeen!!! rise up ! we are the khalifas of the world. Were are the Lions of this ummah?!!

That's 8 spelling errors, not counting his creative approach to capital letters, slang, and commas.

MicrospellingzionistBalrog


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: jamisjockey on December 09, 2010, 07:11:35 AM
Good thing to know they are busting their butts protecting us from "terrorists".

http://www.examiner.com/dupage-county-conservative-in-chicago/second-playboy-model-outraged-by-tsa-as-many-weeks

I wish it was legal for me to feel up playboy models.  I see a career change in my future!


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: roo_ster on December 09, 2010, 07:51:40 AM
"I'll be groped for Christmas"

http://www.examiner.com/dupage-county-conservative-in-chicago/i-ll-be-groped-for-christmas-by-roxi-copland-video


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on December 09, 2010, 02:05:05 PM
You expect me to be scared of a guy so stupid he can't spell the title of his own God?

That's 8 spelling errors, not counting his creative approach to capital letters, slang, and commas.

MicrospellingzionistBalrog

pg county md public school  he was likely salutarian


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on December 09, 2010, 02:05:56 PM
Good thing to know they are busting their butts protecting us from "terrorists".

http://www.examiner.com/dupage-county-conservative-in-chicago/second-playboy-model-outraged-by-tsa-as-many-weeks

I wish it was legal for me to feel up playboy models.  I see a career change in my future!

good luck running that by swmbo


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Regolith on December 09, 2010, 09:08:31 PM
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AMBASSADOR_PAT_DOWN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-12-09-14-47-24

TSA singles out and pats down the Indian Ambassador, twice.  India isn't happy.

Now, I'm not all that huge of a fan of diplomatic immunity, but I understand the reason for it.  Apparently, TSA thinks they're exempt from that practice.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: fistful on December 09, 2010, 10:01:26 PM
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AMBASSADOR_PAT_DOWN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-12-09-14-47-24

TSA singles out and pats down the Indian Ambassador, twice.  India isn't happy.


Half the people I know can't tell the difference between an Indian, a Moooslim*, and an AY-rab.  ;/


*Opposite of a Joooo.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Monkeyleg on December 09, 2010, 10:25:16 PM
I have trouble with Swedes, Finns and Norwegians. All those blondes look alike to me.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: sanglant on December 09, 2010, 10:28:46 PM
Ambassadors being treated like peoples? i would give most of what i own to see more of that.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: fistful on December 10, 2010, 04:17:52 AM
I have trouble with Swedes, Finns and Norwegians. All those blondes look alike to me.

No, I don't mean they all look alike. I mean these people really don't know the difference between India and Saudi Arabia.  =|


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: roo_ster on December 10, 2010, 04:52:27 AM
I have trouble with Swedes, Finns and Norwegians. All those blondes look alike to me.

They can tell the difference in Minnesota.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Tallpine on December 10, 2010, 08:15:53 AM
I have trouble with Swedes, Finns and Norwegians. All those blondes look alike to me.

That's because you're looking too high  =D


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on December 10, 2010, 02:08:13 PM
http://springerlink.com/content/g6620thk08679160/

Evidently you can get plastic explosive through the backscatter machine.

And it doesn't even need to be up your bum.

You just have to shape it properly. :facepalm:


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas on December 10, 2010, 05:13:42 PM
You need the blasting caps, though. Those could be smuggled up tight and out of sight.


Title: Re: TSA Super Thread
Post by: roo_ster on December 10, 2010, 07:59:34 PM
You need the blasting caps, though. Those could be smuggled up tight and out of sight as part of nearly any electronic device.

No kiestering necessary.