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Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: roo_ster on December 21, 2010, 06:24:14 AM



Title: Hugo Chavez: Fascist or Communist?
Post by: roo_ster on December 21, 2010, 06:24:14 AM
Or does the label really matter?  How many tools still think he is some expression of the Venezuelan democratic impulse...after his party loses a bunch of seats in the legislature and he gets the lame duck legislature to declare him dictator votes him "rule by emergency decree" powers in the face of the incoming legislature?

http://pajamasmedia.com/ronradosh/2010/12/20/hugo-chavez-communazi/?singlepage=true

Take a gander at the powers he is seeking to push through.



Title: Re: Hugo Chavez: Fascist or Communist?
Post by: MicroBalrog on December 21, 2010, 06:32:44 AM
There is a difference?


Title: Re: Hugo Chavez: Fascist or Communist?
Post by: roo_ster on December 21, 2010, 06:57:05 AM
There is a difference?

Not to the people murdered & oppressed, but it is a big deal to lefties, as they support any to their perceived left.


Title: Re: Hugo Chavez: Fascist or Communist?
Post by: Scout26 on December 21, 2010, 04:08:25 PM
Hmmm, Nazi... which stood for:

Nationalist SOCIALIST Party.

The only difference between Communists and Fascists is the quoting of Karl Marx. 


Chavez strikes me as more a Hoxha/Hitler cross, then a true communist....


Title: Re: Hugo Chavez: Fascist or Communist?
Post by: MicroBalrog on December 21, 2010, 04:19:37 PM
"Capitalism is not the item, but the attitude to the item. Mines, factories, home ownership, real estate, rail, money, stock options are not the root of our social need, but the ill-use of the People's property. Capitalism is the misappropriation of the people's capital, and it is not only an economic definition. The forces of capitalism act in all spheres of public life. It is a principle.  To put it crudely, capitalism is the misappropriation of the people's property, and the man who does that is the capitalist."

"This was the fatal error of the German proletariat on November 9th, 1918: having lost the war, it was cheated  by the revolution, that motivated him to abolish a capitalist state, but did not permit him to establish a socialist state."

~~Joseph Goebbels, "On Capitalism"

"ôAs soon as society succeeds in abolishing the empirical essence of JudaismŚhuckstering and its conditionsŚthe Jew becomes impossible ů The social emancipation of the Jew is the emancipation of society from Judaism." ~~ Karl Marx, "On the Jewish Question"



Title: Re: Hugo Chavez: Fascist or Communist?
Post by: freakazoid on December 21, 2010, 04:20:58 PM
Quote
Nationalist SOCIALIST Party.

THAT PROVES THAT THEY ARE ONE AND THE SAME!!!11!!!  ;/


Title: Re: Hugo Chavez: Fascist or Communist?
Post by: TommyGunn on December 21, 2010, 04:41:47 PM
Hmmm, Nazi... which stood for:

Nationalist SOCIALIST Party.....

Nationale Sozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, to be precise.

"National Socialist German Worker's Party."


Title: Re: Hugo Chavez: Fascist or Communist?
Post by: Scout26 on December 21, 2010, 05:22:23 PM
Correct, most people (and especially those on the left) think that Nazism (and Fascism as well) are "Right Wing" when if you look at their beliefs, statements, and practices bear out that they were Leftists.  Like I almost correctly pointed out.  Nazi's were and believed in Nationalist Socialism.  Not Capitalism or Freedom.

The left has perverted history to distance themselves from Hitler/Nazi Germany.  But not so much as the Lenin/Stalin and the Soviets.   I wonder why.......


Title: Re: Hugo Chavez: Fascist or Communist?
Post by: thebaldguy on December 21, 2010, 05:23:18 PM
He is both.

In a few years stories will probably surface about his excesses and corruption.


Title: Re: Hugo Chavez: Fascist or Communist?
Post by: Ben on December 21, 2010, 05:45:54 PM
"Capitalism is not the item, but the attitude to the item. Mines, factories, home ownership, real estate, rail, money, stock options are not the root of our social need, but the ill-use of the People's property. Capitalism is the misappropriation of the people's capital, and it is not only an economic definition. The forces of capitalism act in all spheres of public life. It is a principle.  To put it crudely, capitalism is the misappropriation of the people's property, and the man who does that is the capitalist."

"This was the fatal error of the German proletariat on November 9th, 1918: having lost the war, it was cheated  by the revolution, that motivated him to abolish a capitalist state, but did not permit him to establish a socialist state."

~~Joseph Goebbels, "On Capitalism"



I think I might print a few copies of that quote out -- minus the attribution --  and leave them in some select locations to see which progressives I know will start talking about how "truthful" it is. Then when I overhear them, I'll say, "Oh, isn't that a Goebbels quote?"


Title: Re: Hugo Chavez: Fascist or Communist?
Post by: MechAg94 on December 21, 2010, 08:18:27 PM
A couple of differences I see:

1.  Communism has killed a hell of a lot more people than fascism.

2.  I think the other difference is in who runs things and who gets killed.  I was thinking that in Germany a lot of businessmen and aristocrats participated in the system.  Communism kills all those businessmen and aristocrats and puts other people in power who essentially do the same thing. 

3.  It seems to me that fascism has tried to preserve the illusion of capitalism or the status quo, at least in practice. 


Title: Re: Hugo Chavez: Fascist or Communist?
Post by: MechAg94 on December 21, 2010, 08:20:42 PM
"Capitalism is not the item, but the attitude to the item. Mines, factories, home ownership, real estate, rail, money, stock options are not the root of our social need, but the ill-use of the People's property. Capitalism is the misappropriation of the people's capital, and it is not only an economic definition. The forces of capitalism act in all spheres of public life. It is a principle.  To put it crudely, capitalism is the misappropriation of the people's property, and the man who does that is the capitalist."
And by the "People's property" he means the governments; and the government means him and his cronies. 


Title: Re: Hugo Chavez: Fascist or Communist?
Post by: sumpnz on December 21, 2010, 09:38:17 PM
Fascism is portrayed by the communists as "right wing" only becuase the fascists try to maintain the illusion of private ownership of business, whereas commies make no pretense of such.  That's about the only difference.  Fascism and communism both compete for the same electorate of socialsits. 


Title: Re: Hugo Chavez: Fascist or Communist?
Post by: brimic on December 22, 2010, 05:40:12 AM
Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fascism is portrayed by the communists as "right wing" only becuase the fascists try to maintain the illusion of private ownership of business, whereas commies make no pretense of such.  That's about the only difference.  Fascism and communism both compete for the same electorate of socialsits.
+11
That's pretty much the description given by Hayek.


Title: Re: Hugo Chavez: Fascist or Communist?
Post by: seeker_two on December 22, 2010, 06:42:00 AM
Fascism is portrayed by the communists as "right wing" only becuase the fascists try to maintain the illusion of private ownership of business, whereas commies make no pretense of such.  That's about the only difference.  Fascism and communism both compete for the same electorate of socialsits. 

That's the big difference...fascism is total rule by gov't and a few preferred business monopolies being run by their owners (with gov't represented on their boards)...think of it like gov't making GE the only electronics maker, Microsoft the only OS, GM the only vehicle maker, etc. Communism is having gov't own and run all the businesses.

We're heading closer to fascism in this country than communism....


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