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Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Boomhauer on April 15, 2013, 11:29:15 AM



Title: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Boomhauer on April 15, 2013, 11:29:15 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/two-explosions-boston-marathon-finish-line-190259876--spt.html

Not a whole lot of information out there, I'm hearing reports of 20-30 casualties, no count on how many of those are dead or wounded yet.



Title: Explosion at Boston Marathon :\
Post by: Pharmacology on April 15, 2013, 11:29:44 AM
Apparently  two bombs were set off at the finish line of the boston marathon.

There are several people are very badly hurt.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/04/bomb-reported-at-boston-marathon-finish-line.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+nymag%2Fintelligencer+%28Daily+Intelligencer+-+New+York+Magazine%29


Title: 2 explosions @ Boston Marathon
Post by: vaskidmark on April 15, 2013, 11:30:12 AM
http://aol.sportingnews.com/sport/story/2013-04-15/boston-marathon-explosion-finish-line-photos-lockdown?icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D298640

Two explosions, seconds apart, at the Boston Matrathon finish line.  Several injured, including at least one cop.  Details sketchy.

 [tinfoil]It's gotta be the work of those old white guys bitterly clinging to their guns and Bibles [tinfoil]

stay safe.

Mods - go ahead and move it to politics if you must, but I'd like to see how long it can stay focused as a news story.


Title: Re: 2 explosions @ Boston Marathon
Post by: Fitz on April 15, 2013, 11:32:21 AM
I have a friend whose wife is there running. He's ok, but he can't find his wife. Cell phones are useless right now.

Praying...


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Gewehr98 on April 15, 2013, 11:37:02 AM
Merged three simultaneous threads.

Folks, glad you're attentive to world news, but take a look to see if somebody else is already posting the same topic before you commit...   ;)


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Boomhauer on April 15, 2013, 11:39:11 AM
Ah beat you all for once.

I have a friend whose wife is there running. He's ok, but he can't find his wife. Cell phones are useless right now.

Praying...

Completely not a surprise that the cell networks are down. Hope he finds her soon and uninjured.



Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on April 15, 2013, 11:45:51 AM
I just turned on the TV. Damn.
=(

Fitz, I hope your friends wife is okay.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Viking on April 15, 2013, 11:50:29 AM
How horrible. =(


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 15, 2013, 11:54:22 AM
The competitor tracker showed her at midway through the course, so if the tracker is accurate she should be okay

I'll let you know


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: lupinus on April 15, 2013, 12:07:54 PM
Hoping she's OK.

Hearing now they've found a third bomb and are debating if it's safest to move, deactivate, or do a controlled explosion in place.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: lupinus on April 15, 2013, 12:09:00 PM
Also just saw on the news flash 2 dead 22 injured.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on April 15, 2013, 12:10:45 PM
Hoping she's OK.

Hearing now they've found a third bomb and are debating if it's safest to move, deactivate, or do a controlled explosion in place.

The news reported a third explosion and it was reported as a controlled explosion in a cleared area.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: makattak on April 15, 2013, 12:12:43 PM
Hoping she's OK.

Hearing now they've found a third bomb and are debating if it's safest to move, deactivate, or do a controlled explosion in place.

Current reports are devices that are unexploded. If so, there was significant planning for this attack. (Not that two devices with one timed to drive more people towards the second explosion does not involve planning.)


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Boomhauer on April 15, 2013, 12:14:32 PM
And note that it is April 15


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 15, 2013, 12:15:12 PM
Tiff is safe


Multiple devices, coordinated effort... Whether the source is domestic or foreign, this is very bad.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: lupinus on April 15, 2013, 12:17:39 PM
No, but a third means that much more. And quite possibly more than one nut job.

Which on that note, is it wrong that I'm already hoping it's not some domestic whack job? Because something about tax day in Boston seems to be just a little to convenient FU and your excessive taxes gesture  =|


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: makattak on April 15, 2013, 12:17:45 PM
Tiff is safe


Multiple devices, coordinated effort... Whether the source is domestic or foreign, this is very bad.

Indeed. I will note that this is a common Al Queda tactic. (I.e. multiple devices, driving the crowd toward the bigger bomb.)

Not that other groups can't learn from those tactics, but it may suggest an Al Queda attack.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 15, 2013, 12:17:47 PM
And note that it is April 15

Suggesting some sort of bitterclinger anarchopatriot is going to bomb marathon runners as a tax protest?

Doesn't further an agenda.  Other than deliberate New England style nannystatism.

An IRS building, Congress, FBI HQ, something like that makes sense for that sort of allegation.  Not a sporting event of international repute.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: lupinus on April 15, 2013, 12:20:03 PM
Tiff is safe
Excellent news!


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: lupinus on April 15, 2013, 12:20:45 PM
Suggesting some sort of bitterclinger anarchopatriot is going to bomb marathon runners as a tax protest?

Doesn't further an agenda.  Other than deliberate New England style nannystatism.

An IRS building, Congress, FBI HQ, something like that makes sense for that sort of allegation.  Not a sporting event of international repute.
No. But people who set off pop shots aren't often the most rational folk.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: SADShooter on April 15, 2013, 12:22:11 PM
Could be a spurned Kenyan lover/ex foe all we know right now. My question is how closely details of the investigation will be held a la Benghazi, Newtown, et al. to control the narrative going forward.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on April 15, 2013, 12:22:54 PM
I find it intresting. I've flipped through three diffrent channels (abc, cbs and nbc) and the reporters are being very careful about making absolute statements.

Which is a complete 360 from the last big news story that they broadcasted live.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: lupinus on April 15, 2013, 12:25:28 PM
Fox news now reporting TWO unexploded devices, not one.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: vaskidmark on April 15, 2013, 12:28:47 PM
I find it intresting. I've flipped through three diffrent channels (abc, cbs and nbc) and the reporters are being very careful about making absolute statements.

Which is a complete 360 from the last big news story that they broadcasted live.

That would be a 180 - but we know what you mean.

Or did the solar flare last night screw up geometry as well as the Northern Lights?

stay safe.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Balog on April 15, 2013, 12:29:02 PM
Best live feed coverage I can find http://live.boston.com/Event/Live_blog_Explosion_in_Copley_Square

Seemingly reliable reports of two more unexploded IED's, and ball bearings on the street near the explosions. The two we know of were near the medical aid tent. Suggestive of coordinated anti-personnel attack. I'm hoping the evacuation routes aren't mined.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on April 15, 2013, 12:29:52 PM
That would be a 180 - but we know what you mean.

Or did the solar flare last night screw up geometry as well as the Northern Lights?

stay safe.

Yes, I meant 180. I am being distracted by TV coverage.


Title: Re: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AJ Dual on April 15, 2013, 12:31:37 PM
From the video, it really looked looked like black powder to me... It would have been worse had it been something high-order. It just didn't look like it had high brisance.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on April 15, 2013, 12:32:06 PM
Hospital Dr. in press confrence is saying no victums with hazardest material exposure.

So that's something.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 15, 2013, 12:32:20 PM
Prediction: Former military, probably Eod , With service in Iraq or Afghanistan

Probably more than one person. There is a lot of planning and effort involved in a coordinated strike with multiple IEDs

I'm also guessing claymore


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: lupinus on April 15, 2013, 12:33:10 PM
From the video, it really looked looked like black powder to me... It would have been worse had it been something high-order. It just didn't look like it had high brisance.
Just depends on the size and how well it was constructed. Could be anything at this point.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: dogmush on April 15, 2013, 12:33:43 PM
Seemingly reliable reports of two more unexploded IED's, and ball bearings on the street near the explosions. The two we know of were near the medical aid tent. Suggestive of coordinated anti-personnel attack. I'm hoping the evacuation routes aren't mined.

This thought occured to me as well.  

Quote
I'm also guessing claymore

Homemade.  A real one is more effective.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Boomhauer on April 15, 2013, 12:34:05 PM
Prediction: Former military, probably Eod , With service in Iraq or Afghanistan

Probably more than one person. There is a lot of planning and effort involved in a coordinated strike with multiple IEDs

I'm also guessing claymore

Info I'm getting is talking about ball bearings, so at least they were trying for a claymore effect in that.



Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Neemi on April 15, 2013, 12:39:36 PM
Got word that two of my family members out there are safe. They are looking for their third party member. May not know for a while - she didn't have her phone since she was running.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Balog on April 15, 2013, 12:53:02 PM
The runner tracker website is still functioning last I saw Neemi.

NY Post reports 12 dead, 50+ wounded, at least 10 amputations. http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/two_explosions_at_boston_marathon_iMR0LCkcwASg0RQfVsH1yI?utm_source=SFnewyorkpost&utm_medium=SFnewyorkpost


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 15, 2013, 12:54:45 PM
M


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Hawkmoon on April 15, 2013, 12:55:08 PM
Current reports are devices that are unexploded. If so, there was significant planning for this attack. (Not that two devices with one timed to drive more people towards the second explosion does not involve planning.)

Standard terrorist strategy. It's very common to set off a small blast, with a much larger one set as a trap to take out the first responders.


Title: Re: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Bigjake on April 15, 2013, 12:56:26 PM
From the video, it really looked looked like black powder to me... It would have been worse had it been something high-order. It just didn't look like it had high brisance.

From the video,  I agree.   No shockwave, just a sort of "boom".   Thank the gods for amateurs.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Hawkmoon on April 15, 2013, 12:58:54 PM
I find it intresting. I've flipped through three diffrent channels (abc, cbs and nbc) and the reporters are being very careful about making absolute statements.

Which is a complete 360 from the last big news story that they broadcasted live.

Yeah, but Newtown (Sandy Hook) was clearly perpetrated by an American with an evil black rifle, so mass publicity played into the agenda. But the Department of Homeland (In)Security keeps telling us we're safe, so the fact that we obviously are NOT safe does not support the party line, and therefore must be suppressed.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Balog on April 15, 2013, 12:59:17 PM
Highly unlikely to be black powder, reports indicate backpacks in trash cans as the source. A backpack full of BP wouldn't be that big, esp given the detonator and (reported) ball bearing payload. Probably lower order like tnt not a c4 or something more advanced.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Stetson on April 15, 2013, 01:00:07 PM
Just heard from a nurse friend out there.  She's okay.  She hasn't been called in yet but could be.

Some reports of one bomb in a trashcan.  Would that give the same affects as a home made claymore?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Boomhauer on April 15, 2013, 01:02:49 PM
OK now word I'm getting is at least one suspect has been arrested. Saudi national which of course points to AQ

ETA cell phone service was apparently shut down in an effort to prevent a cell phone trigger from working.

Quote
Would that give the same affects as a home made claymore?

You'd get some frag from a trashcan but what I'm hearing is specifically ball bearings were used in construction of at least one of the devices.



Title: Re: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: kgbsquirrel on April 15, 2013, 01:10:06 PM
From the video, it really looked looked like black powder to me... It would have been worse had it been something high-order. It just didn't look like it had high brisance.

Just saw it, same thoughts, low order explosions.


Prediction: Former military, probably Eod , With service in Iraq or Afghanistan

Probably more than one person. There is a lot of planning and effort involved in a coordinated strike with multiple IEDs

I'm also guessing claymore

It would have been a lot bigger than what I just saw if it was someone with even a modicum of training.


Highly unlikely to be black powder, reports indicate backpacks in trash cans as the source. A backpack full of BP wouldn't be that big, esp given the detonator and (reported) ball bearing payload. Probably lower order like tnt not a c4 or something more advanced.

TNT or C4 would have been much larger. Half a kilogram can demolish an uparmored humvee. Low frequency boom, lots of smoke, limited frag range. SWAG: pipe bomb with either smokeless or black powder.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: kgbsquirrel on April 15, 2013, 01:12:30 PM
More explosions at the JFK library.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on April 15, 2013, 01:13:09 PM
OK now word I'm getting is at least one suspect has been arrested. Saudi national which of course points to AQ




Which outlet is reporting this?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Neemi on April 15, 2013, 01:13:37 PM
yeah I was piecing together where she was at the time the explosions went off - she should've been a ways from the blast.

She just joined up with the others - so all are safe. Phew. =)


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on April 15, 2013, 01:17:13 PM
More explosions at the JFK library.

And that's still going back and forth. Police cheif said it was explosion. Library still saying it was just an electrical fire.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Mike Irwin on April 15, 2013, 01:21:22 PM
Fox is reporting that one person with severe burns is under guard at a hospital as a suspect.


Title: Re: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AJ Dual on April 15, 2013, 01:22:03 PM
Feeling the usual relief-then-pseudo-guilt-at-feeling-relieved to hear there's a probable Islamic/middle eastern connection with the suspect.

It is "tax day" after all, and the MSM was starting to speculate.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 15, 2013, 01:22:57 PM
Anyone else made nervous by this line?

"Somebody's leg flew by my head," a spectator, who gave his name as John Ross, told the Boston Herald. "I gave my belt to stop the blood."


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on April 15, 2013, 01:25:57 PM
Fox is reporting that one person with severe burns is under guard at a hospital as a suspect.

hmmm...

Also, intresting. My boss called me shortly after I found out about it (call was work related) when I asked if she knew about it, she said that Fox was the only radio reporting it and it still hadn't broken on NPR at that point.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Gewehr98 on April 15, 2013, 01:26:12 PM
Can the runners still finish to get their official times?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AmbulanceDriver on April 15, 2013, 01:27:18 PM
I started and restarted posting 3 or 4 times....  

For today, I will pray for the victims, and be thankful that more people weren't injured or killed.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Lee on April 15, 2013, 01:29:23 PM
Yikes!


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 15, 2013, 01:31:51 PM
Third device being reported at the Boston JFK library with no injuries.


Damn.  Just damn.

Feeling the usual relief-then-pseudo-guilt-at-feeling-relieved to hear there's a probable Islamic/middle eastern connection with the suspect.

It is "tax day" after all, and the MSM was starting to speculate.

Silver lining.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: lupinus on April 15, 2013, 01:33:17 PM
JFK is now being reported as just a fire or related to a fire.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Nick1911 on April 15, 2013, 01:34:02 PM
I started and restarted posting 3 or 4 times....  

For today, I will pray for the victims, and be thankful that more people weren't injured or killed.

I'm in the same boat.

My heart truly goes out to those hurt or killed and their families.   =(


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on April 15, 2013, 01:35:50 PM
Can the runners still finish to get their official times?

 Would they really be all that bothered if they can't, given the circumstances?
 =|


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 15, 2013, 01:36:19 PM
Saudi national being held

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/authorities_under_suspect_guard_y2m8cJO29uC2PDGIjYBalO


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: T.O.M. on April 15, 2013, 01:37:22 PM
NBC broadcast reported the JFK library  situation does appear  to be an unnrelated electrical fire.  Nk reports of suspects, arrests, motives, etc.

HLN is   stiill covering Jodi Arius nonstop.....


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on April 15, 2013, 01:39:45 PM
NBC broadcast reported the JFK library  situation does appear  to be an unnrelated electrical fire.  Nk reports of suspects, arrests, motives, etc.

HLN is   stiill covering Jodi Arius nonstop.....

CBS and ABC are also saying that it's not a bomb at the libary.

It was a fire in a mechanical room (according to CBS)

And no mention of suspects being held.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Phyphor on April 15, 2013, 01:47:35 PM
North Korea had better NOT launch a damned thing, today.  Or anytime soon.  I somehow don't think they'd much like the response.

That said, we'll have to wait and see (as per usual, with these kinds of incidents) and see just what exactly happened and who is reponsible.  Plus, to see if this is over or just the beginning.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jim147 on April 15, 2013, 01:56:18 PM
It only took CNN a few minute to start talking about the explosion looking like black powder and the the fact that it is Patriot's Day there.

But of course that was followed up by "We can't jump to conclusions."

jim


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on April 15, 2013, 02:01:12 PM
Alright. The Police cheif has said that there is no suspects being held.


Title: Re: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Balog on April 15, 2013, 02:14:32 PM
Just saw it, same thoughts, low order explosions.


It would have been a lot bigger than what I just saw if it was someone with even a modicum of training.


TNT or C4 would have been much larger. Half a kilogram can demolish an uparmored humvee. Low frequency boom, lots of smoke, limited frag range. SWAG: pipe bomb with either smokeless or black powder.

I did demo training as part of my MOS school. TNT especially isn't as big as you're indicating.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Ex-MA Hole on April 15, 2013, 02:35:34 PM
Cell phones in NH are *expletive deleted*ed, calls are being rerouted through our towers...


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Hawkmoon on April 15, 2013, 02:47:57 PM
Can the runners still finish to get their official times?

The faster runners had already finished. Those who were still on the course were being diverted away from the finish line area so, no, they won't be allowed to finish and get an official time. The organizers aborted the race.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Hawkmoon on April 15, 2013, 02:50:00 PM
HLN is   stiill covering Jodi Arius nonstop.....

Nancy Grace is a slut of the lowest order. I refuse to even visit the HLN web site, solely because I will not lower myself to read anything by Nancy Grace.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 15, 2013, 02:57:47 PM
North Korea had better NOT launch a damned thing, today.  Or anytime soon.  I somehow don't think they'd much like the response.

That said, we'll have to wait and see (as per usual, with these kinds of incidents) and see just what exactly happened and who is reponsible.  Plus, to see if this is over or just the beginning.


You give this administration too much credit. Remember, a sovereign nation allowed our ambassador to be ripped from the consulate, buggered and murdered, and we did jack diddle *expletive deleted*it.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Ben on April 15, 2013, 03:04:29 PM
You give this administration too much credit. Remember, a sovereign nation allowed our ambassador to be ripped from the consulate, buggered and murdered, and we did jack diddle *expletive deleted*.

Actually, the administration did do something about it. They said, "who cares?"


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: HankB on April 15, 2013, 03:09:39 PM
Actually, the administration did do something about it. They said, "who cares?"
Sure they did something - before the attack they reduced security (to make the Libyans feel better about our trusting them), they denied additional security when requested, and by some accounts - admittedly uncorroborated - they prevented a US military response during the attack.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 15, 2013, 03:10:05 PM
Actually, the administration did do something about it. They said, "who cares?"

Yeah, what does it matter at this point, right?



FNC reporting over 70 injuries.  Two more devices are being reported, doesn't sound like they were detonated.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: lee n. field on April 15, 2013, 03:10:43 PM
OK.  How many people's first or second thought was "how are they going to use this against us?".  "They" being 0. and associates.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 15, 2013, 03:16:43 PM
OK.  How many people's first or second thought was "how are they going to use this against us?".  "They" being 0. and associates.

I think we're probably too early to wade into that conversation, and we should be careful how far over that way we speculate in a public forum, IMHO. [tinfoil]


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Waitone on April 15, 2013, 03:26:57 PM
Video of the explosion. 
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-15/stunning-video-boston-explosion


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: lupinus on April 15, 2013, 03:34:55 PM
I think we're probably too early to wade into that conversation, and we should be careful how far over that way we speculate in a public forum, IMHO. [tinfoil]
Yeah.

Don't wanna give them any ideas  :laugh:


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: birdman on April 15, 2013, 03:46:18 PM


Deleted.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: lee n. field on April 15, 2013, 03:51:36 PM
I think we're probably too early to wade into that conversation, and we should be careful how far over that way we speculate in a public forum, IMHO. [tinfoil]

OK, later.

It's not April 19th.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: roo_ster on April 15, 2013, 03:58:11 PM
Radio was playing live feed of teevee nooz, wall to wall coverage.  About made me want to yack the way they played it up.  "All eyes were on Boston for the marathon."  Really?  I didn't know it was today.  And more & more in that vein, plus what I suspect was the nooz bimbo describing some feed from near the location. "Here is a man with blood running down his face...."

All in all not a confidence-inspiring 15 minute drive.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: zxcvbob on April 15, 2013, 04:00:31 PM
I think we're probably too early to wade into that conversation, and we should be careful how far over that way we speculate in a public forum, IMHO. [tinfoil]

As I was driving home I had NPR on the radio; "Marketplace", I think.  An older woman called in and talked about the Newtown memorial at mile marker 26, and we're finally starting to get meaningful gun laws and the gun lobby goes and does something like this.  She didn't say "NRA" but it was implied.  The host let it go unchallenged.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: MillCreek on April 15, 2013, 04:09:40 PM
So how does cell phone service in a given area get shut off?  The carriers flip a few switches and the towers are disabled?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: seeker_two on April 15, 2013, 04:10:07 PM
Hate to throw more speculation into the fire....but could this be the "launch" that the Norks have threatened?....



Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 15, 2013, 04:10:43 PM
So how does cell phone service in a given area get shut off?  The carriers flip a few switches and the towers are disabled?



The carriers are all denying that this happened


More likely it's the usual post-disaster surge overwhelming the infrastructure


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Gewehr98 on April 15, 2013, 04:21:41 PM
Yes and no.

Carriers have agreements with local and state governments to allocate additional tower bandwidth in the event of bona-fide emergencies.

It happened to us in Florida during Hurricanes Jeanne and Frances.  The explanation was that those frequencies were being used for evacuation efforts.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: T.O.M. on April 15, 2013, 05:10:33 PM


The carriers are all denying that this happened


More likely it's the usual post-disaster surge overwhelming the infrastructure

+1. Once upon a time, I worked with Emergency Management Agency, and was told exactly this.  In a real emergency, forget  cell phone calls.  Texts have a better channce of working.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 15, 2013, 05:12:29 PM
Bonus points for the first person who can explain why texts sometimes work when voice service doesn't ....


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: zxcvbob on April 15, 2013, 05:14:10 PM
Bonus points for the first person who can explain why texts sometimes work when voice service doesn't ....

requires less bandwidth


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 15, 2013, 05:16:38 PM
requires less bandwidth

Well yeah it does, but that's not the whole story


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Marnoot on April 15, 2013, 05:18:52 PM
Text messages just use empty space in messages your cell phone is constantly chattering to/from the tower anyway.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 15, 2013, 05:21:51 PM
Text messages just use empty space in messages your cell phone is constantly chattering to/from the tower anyway.


Ding ding ding

Control channels pass info to/from the phone, handle handoffs between towers, etc. they don't carry voice traffic. SMS is sent over this control channel when it is available.

All the frequencies for voice can be jammed up solid and sometimes you can still get an SMs through


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: birdman on April 15, 2013, 05:30:25 PM

Ding ding ding

Control channels pass info to/from the phone, handle handoffs between towers, etc. they don't carry voice traffic. SMS is sent over this control channel when it is available.

All the frequencies for voice can be jammed up solid and sometimes you can still get an SMs through

Correction, there are frequencies, and there are codes/time chips (depending if its CDMA/TDMA)...so all the frequencies could be used, but the cell could still be at low usage.
Frequencies are typically allocated (in groups) to ensure minimal cross/talk co-utilization tower to tower, time/code division within a cell for all the packets.

Otherwise, you are exactly right.  That is also the reason why SMS is character limited as its limited to the size of the corresponding control packet length.

So what you meant was that "all the bandwidth for multiple calls/data transmissions can be in use, and you can still get a SMS through"

The reason why is those channels are designed (and technically always are) serving the maximum number of devices in that area. 


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Bigjake on April 15, 2013, 05:30:58 PM

Ding ding ding

Control channels pass info to/from the phone, handle handoffs between towers, etc. they don't carry voice traffic. SMS is sent over this control channel when it is available.

All the frequencies for voice can be jammed up solid and sometimes you can still get an SMs through

Burst of packets make it through,   real time voice call doesn't,  unless I'm mistaken.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 15, 2013, 05:35:29 PM
Burst of packets make it through,   real time voice call doesn't,  unless I'm mistaken.

I mean, you're right, but the central point here is that the voice traffic is on separate channels from SMS


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: zxcvbob on April 15, 2013, 05:39:21 PM
I did not know SMS traveled on an expedited (control) flow rather than data.  I thought it was just a much smaller packet.  If anything, I tho't voice was higher priority because of the real-time thing.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 15, 2013, 05:45:28 PM
I did not know SMS traveled on an expedited (control) flow rather than data.  I thought it was just a much smaller packet.  If anything, I tho't voice was higher priority because of the real-time thing.

Yeah, but even though its going alon with control traffic, it's only when those channels are dormant.

The advantageous thing is that most people, if they can't use voice, assume SMS is out too... So the amount of folks attempting SMs is greatly decreased


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: zahc on April 15, 2013, 05:51:25 PM
Someone at work pointed out, that if terrorists really wanted to be effective, they would set off one of these in a different city every day until...forever, essentially. Let's hope he's not right and we don't see any repeats.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: RevDisk on April 15, 2013, 06:26:28 PM
Had a friend near the blast. She's fine, but shook up. Has photos of the blast site, minutes before. If you collected  time stamped pictures and vid, could probably make a pretty accurate 3D model of what happened.

Folks, hold off on the pointless speculation.  Whether this was the next OKC or Islamic terrorism, it'll come out in due time.  Some folks didn't even wait for the bodies to cool before starting their baseless speculation.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Ron on April 15, 2013, 07:17:17 PM
The Boston Marathon's Final Mile Was Dedicated to Newtown Victims

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/04/boston-marathons-final-mile-was-dedicated-newtown-victims/64250/
Quote
Update, 4:07 p.m. Eastern: Newtown families were reportedly seated in the VIP section right by where the explosions went off. There's no word whether they are among the 23 injured and two dead from the explosions.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: kgbsquirrel on April 15, 2013, 08:45:58 PM
Glad to hear your friend is okay RevDisk, make sure she has someone close to her that she can talk to or just be with for a bit.


Yeah, but even though its going alon with control traffic, it's only when those channels are dormant.

The advantageous thing is that most people, if they can't use voice, assume SMS is out too... So the amount of folks attempting SMs is greatly decreased


I think perhaps the disaster training folks should start including info regarding using texts to contact people instead of voice lines if at all possible. Get society in general trained over to such to help improve communications and response in future emergencies.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: fistful on April 15, 2013, 09:16:46 PM
As I was driving home I had NPR on the radio; "Marketplace", I think.  An older woman called in and talked about the Newtown memorial at mile marker 26, and we're finally starting to get meaningful gun laws and the gun lobby goes and does something like this.  She didn't say "NRA" but it was implied.  The host let it go unchallenged.


Someone thought "the gun lobby" did that? The mind boggles.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: kgbsquirrel on April 16, 2013, 01:42:00 AM

Someone thought "the gun lobby" did that? The mind boggles.

And that would be the sound of the spin being fired up. *sigh*


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: roo_ster on April 16, 2013, 03:35:05 AM
1. This sort of incident, if done wholesale, could be mighty disruptive in ways more spectacular incidents are not.

2. Despite leos on the ground, regular folk are still the real first responders.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: bedlamite on April 16, 2013, 04:06:44 AM
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/04/report-police-have-video-of-suspect-dropping-bombs-in-trash-cans/ (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/04/report-police-have-video-of-suspect-dropping-bombs-in-trash-cans/)


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: birdman on April 16, 2013, 04:24:05 AM
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/04/report-police-have-video-of-suspect-dropping-bombs-in-trash-cans/ (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/04/report-police-have-video-of-suspect-dropping-bombs-in-trash-cans/)

If you click through on that to the confirmation link, in one of the updates, an "expert" says its more likely domestic terror, not a "global terrorist group" {AQ}, as the early reports say the devices were "crudely made"

Queue the spin.

What if it was?  And they were "crudely made" {BP pipe bomb?}...what then?  
I'm sorry, but these little insertions in "news" lead me to believe that:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/04/foghorn/boston-bombings-may-spark-restrictions-on-reloading-components-tannerite/
..."for the children".  The same way high-N fertilizer became watched/limited after OKC.  But the truth will come out...eventually,

I don't think its too early to be wary of how this is spun by media and pols, the news is already slanting IMHO.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: kgbsquirrel on April 16, 2013, 04:32:07 AM
If you click through on that to the confirmation link, in one of the updates, an "expert" says its more likely domestic terror, not a "global terrorist group" {AQ}, as the early reports say the devices were "crudely made"

Queue the spin.

What if it was?  And they were "crudely made" {BP pipe bomb?}...what then?  
I'm sorry, but these little insertions in "news" lead me to believe that:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/04/foghorn/boston-bombings-may-spark-restrictions-on-reloading-components-tannerite/
..."for the children".  The same way high-N fertilizer became watched/limited after OKC.  But the truth will come out...eventually,

I don't think its too early to be wary of how this is spun by media and pols, the news is already slanting IMHO.


I would agree with that. We've done a pretty good job at knocking off AQ's et alii premiere bomb makers but anyone with even a modicum of the training available (I've actually read AQ's official bomb making training manual) could have made a couple trips to home depot and walgreens and produced proper primary and secondary explosives and built a far, far more devastating device.

I suppose we actually got off somewhat lucky that it was amateur hour in Boston yesterday, as little comfort as that provides.  =|


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Ben on April 16, 2013, 05:04:08 AM
I saw tannerite in the URL at Birdman's link, but the article didn't mention it. Has there been any official statement regarding composition of the devices?

If they were black powder, I could certainly see legislation introduced to highly restrict ALL propellants. It's even easier to sell than "assault weapon". If you think people don't know the difference between the same mechanism housed in either a wood or black plastic stock, try explaining the difference between gunpowder and gun propellant.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: birdman on April 16, 2013, 05:13:43 AM
I saw tannerite in the URL at Birdman's link, but the article didn't mention it. Has there been any official statement regarding composition of the devices?

If they were black powder, I could certainly see legislation introduced to highly restrict ALL propellants. It's even easier to sell than "assault weapon". If you think people don't know the difference between the same mechanism housed in either a wood or black plastic stock, try explaining the difference between gunpowder and gun propellant.

I believe tannerite was mentioned as you can be sure any response to limit/monitor BP, would include tannerite, because ZOMG EXPLOSIVES (gratuitous links to things like boomershoot and the myriad of home YouTube videos).  Of course to your point, propellants would also be included, because all gun powder is the same right?

Also, easy side effect of implicitly regulating the ZOMG YOU CAN BUY BP GUNS OVER THE INTERNET--guns are guns right? 


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Azrael256 on April 16, 2013, 06:49:09 AM

I don't think its too early to be wary of how this is spun by media and pols, the news is already slanting IMHO.


I don't think that's an opinion.  It's rather overt.  They are making it very clear and drawing direct links and stating that this is a tax protest, a gun control protest, and was planted at the finish line because some of the families from Connecticut were there.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: vaskidmark on April 16, 2013, 06:56:37 AM
Listened to the press conference.   [barf]

Whatever they know they are not saying.  And they were quite loud in saying that they were not going to say anything.  [tinfoil]

The best part of the presser was when the head of Mass State Police got up and announced that the hightened presence of local, state and federal cops, plus NG troops, not only in the Copley Square area but throughout downtown Boston, all over the T system, and out at the airport, was "to comfort the public".  He came right out and said there was nothing that could be done to prevent another bomb from being exploded - that the best they might do is once they knew who did it they could watch his/her associates and maybe trick them into a sting operation.

You spend your whole life waiting for a politician/bureaucrat to say something honest, open and direct - and this is what you get when it finally happens? :facepalm:

stay safe.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: birdman on April 16, 2013, 07:36:27 AM
I don't think that's an opinion.  It's rather overt.  They are making it very clear and drawing direct links and stating that this is a tax protest, a gun control protest, and was planted at the finish line because some of the families from Connecticut were there.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/axelrod-obama-thinks-boston-bombings-could-be-related-tax-day_717924.html

Wonderful, so axelrod says we shouldn't draw inferences, we don't know who it was, but (got to love but's)
Quote
You use those words and it means something very specific in people's mind. And I'm sure what was going through the president's mind is -- we really don't know who did this -- it was tax day. Was it someone who was pro--you know, you just don't know. And so I think his attitude is, let's not put any inference into this, let's just make clear that we're going to get the people responsible.
Emphasis mine.

Yeah, thanks Dave, "don't go drawing inferences"...except when it could point at your political enemies.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Phyphor on April 16, 2013, 07:36:45 AM
Just watched the live stream of his speech now.

"We don't know a damned thing." is the message of the day.
 :facepalm:


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: T.O.M. on April 16, 2013, 07:42:18 AM
"We don't know" is usually where an investigation is less than 24 hours after a major criminal act occurs, despite what C.S.I. teaches us about the process. 


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: birdman on April 16, 2013, 07:44:08 AM
But wait, there's more!
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2013/0416/Boston-Marathon-bombing-Feds-raid-apartment-police-seek-rental-van-video
Quote
One thing is clear: The bomber or bombers were not highly skilled. The explosive devices were relatively crude compared with those produced overseas by Al Qaeda or other radical Islamist terrorist groups, RAND Corp. terror expert Brian Jenkins told Los Angeles television. They were much smaller than the powerful truck bomb that Timothy McVeigh used to devastate the federal building in Oklahoma City in April 1995.

In that sense they were analogous to the pipe bombs that killed two and injured 100 in 1996 at Atlanta’s Centennial Park during the Olympics.

The fact that the target was an event of great significance to Boston but not particularly significant to the wider world could indicate that the bomber was a local or at least a native of the United States. The explosions occurred on April 15, tax day, which could be a further indication of a domestic connection.

But the bombs were not directed against a government building or institution, which is often a hallmark of disaffected, lone-wolf domestic terrorists, noted some terrorism analysts. And the style of the attack, in which one explosion was closely followed by another, mimics that used by numerous groups in the Middle East.

And more
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2013/0415/Boston-Marathon-bombings-What-could-the-motives-have-been?nav=657043-csm_article-bottomRelated
Quote
National security analyst Peter Bergen said on CNN that the attack could be the work of “right-wing extremists.” For the so-called patriot groups, anything from tax day to the heated national debate on gun regulations could have been the triggers for such an attack.

(Emphasis mine)
Wow, less than 24hrs and its already point fingers.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 16, 2013, 07:45:50 AM
"We don't know" is usually where an investigation is less than 24 hours after a major criminal act occurs, despite what C.S.I. teaches us about the process. 

Yeah, except for the WTC/Pentagon attacks on 9-11-2011   ;)


(Actually, the TV shows teach us that the first suspect will always be the wrong guy  :lol: )


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 16, 2013, 07:50:28 AM
Yeah, except for the WTC/Pentagon attacks on 9-11-2011   ;)


(Actually, the TV shows teach us that the first suspect will always be the wrong guy  :lol: )

Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't AQ take responsibility very quickly?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: zxcvbob on April 16, 2013, 07:51:01 AM
Yeah, except for the WTC/Pentagon attacks on 9-11-2011   ;)


(Actually, the TV shows teach us that the first suspect will always be the wrong guy  :lol: )

I dunno, Columbo was pretty good at zeroing-in on the right guy right off the bat.   :police:


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 16, 2013, 07:55:08 AM
Never mind. I was wrong


Good info in here


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_for_the_September_11_attacks#Identifying_the_hijackers


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 16, 2013, 07:55:26 AM
Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't AQ take responsibility very quickly?

I don't remember that.

I just remember that the feds had OBL blamed by the end of the day.

I recall that it was: seat numbers == guys on watch list == AQ/OBL  =|


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 16, 2013, 08:02:42 AM
I don't remember that.

I just remember that the feds had OBL blamed by the end of the day.

I recall that it was: seat numbers == guys on watch list == AQ/OBL  =|

I mean, that seems like a fairly easy connection to make. If the folks reported by the airline (as mentioned in that wiki) are known associates of AQ/BL, then it's a pretty easy conclusion


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Sergeant Bob on April 16, 2013, 08:24:43 AM
I just heard on CNN, one of the bombs was contained in a pressure cooker, inside a backpack, FWIW.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: birdman on April 16, 2013, 08:31:07 AM
I just heard on CNN, one of the bombs was contained in a pressure cooker, inside a backpack, FWIW.

Given that, and the freeze-frames, I'm even more leaning toward BP or similar.

And I'm not the only one:
http://blog.joehuffman.org/2013/04/15/boston-explosives/
joe is right on with his assessments of the stills and video in terms of assessing material.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Viking on April 16, 2013, 08:34:48 AM
I just heard on CNN, one of the bombs was contained in a pressure cooker, inside a backpack, FWIW.
...
That sounds familiar. I seem to recall that the guy who blew himself up (and thankfully no one else) in Stockholm a few years ago had a setup like that. I'm going to do some research...


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Mike Irwin on April 16, 2013, 08:38:04 AM
When I saw the flash and smoke black powder was the first thing that popped into my mind.

I have a funny feeling that, if that is true, those of us who shoot black powder are going to have a LOT more hoops to jump through before too long.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 16, 2013, 08:38:34 AM
I just heard on CNN, one of the bombs was contained in a pressure cooker, inside a backpack, FWIW.

Didn't Castle and Beckett solve this exact same case a couple years ago  ???


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Sawdust on April 16, 2013, 08:44:55 AM
Yeah, it was the reporter.

Sawdust


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 16, 2013, 08:56:05 AM
Yeah, it was the reporter.

Sawdust

Yeah, and her boyfriend.  He got killed, right?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Phyphor on April 16, 2013, 09:29:41 AM
"We don't know" is usually where an investigation is less than 24 hours after a major criminal act occurs, despite what C.S.I. teaches us about the process. 

Oh, I know.  I'm just not sure why he chose to just repeat yesterdays speech.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: never_retreat on April 16, 2013, 09:48:24 AM
A pressure cooker as a bomb vessel, interesting idea. Must have been a small pressure cooker if it fit into a backpack.
Does that mean my 23qt pressure cooker is now baned because it is high capacity?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: cordex on April 16, 2013, 10:02:03 AM
Does that mean my 23qt pressure cooker is now baned because it is high capacity?
WMD.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 16, 2013, 11:12:00 AM
A pressure cooker as a bomb vessel, interesting idea. Must have been a small pressure cooker if it fit into a backpack.
Does that mean my 23qt pressure cooker is now baned because it is high capacity?


No, but you will need a background check to buy one.

And then we need to close that pesky yard sale loophole.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: T.O.M. on April 16, 2013, 11:41:18 AM
Oh, I know.  I'm just not sure why he chose to just repeat yesterdays speech.


Kind of like last night when I watched the Asst. Director of the FBI come on, then the U.S Attorney, then the Police Commissioner, then the County D.A.

All gotta show their faces to claim they're doing everything right, out of fear a political opponent will argue otherwise.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Ben on April 16, 2013, 12:49:13 PM
I have a funny feeling that, if that is true, those of us who shoot black powder are going to have a LOT more hoops to jump through before too long.

I just popped over to Grafs. They have all their BP still in stock at normal prices. I'm wondering how long that will last. I'd be inclined to order 10lbs or so right now. On the other hand I wonder how much scrutiny large orders of BP might trigger right now.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: zxcvbob on April 16, 2013, 12:51:59 PM
When I saw the flash and smoke black powder was the first thing that popped into my mind.

I have a funny feeling that, if that is true, those of us who shoot black powder are going to have a LOT more hoops to jump through before too long.

I've started making my own.  (Otoh, I don't shoot much BP anymore.)  I am NOT looking forward to having to make my own nitrate.  :P


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: mtnbkr on April 16, 2013, 12:53:11 PM
I *just* bought a BP rifle because BP gear wasn't under as much pressure as centerfire and rimfire.

Chris


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: lee n. field on April 16, 2013, 01:02:49 PM
A pressure cooker as a bomb vessel, interesting idea. Must have been a small pressure cooker if it fit into a backpack.
Does that mean my 23qt pressure cooker is now baned because it is high capacity?


Watch for stop-and-search of people with backpacks.  "4th amendment, wha dat?"


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: mtnbkr on April 16, 2013, 01:06:20 PM
Watch for stop-and-search of people with backpacks.  "4th amendment, wha dat?"

They're going to be mighty busy in/around schools.

Chris


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: drewtam on April 16, 2013, 02:10:36 PM
I am morbidly impressed that you guys called it a BP bomb first, before the police/fbi/etc released the info after residue review.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Ben on April 16, 2013, 02:26:51 PM
I am morbidly impressed that you guys called it a BP bomb first, before the police/fbi/etc released the info after residue review.

I think what some of us are saying that it doesn't matter what the actual chemical composition turns out to be - restrictions on BP and propellant will likely be debated regardless.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Hawkmoon on April 16, 2013, 02:36:51 PM
Quote
The fact that the target was an event of great significance to Boston but not particularly significant to the wider world could indicate that the bomber was a local or at least a native of the United States. The explosions occurred on April 15, tax day, which could be a further indication of a domestic connection.

Dear God Almighty!

So the fact that the bomb was set at the finish line of the Boston marathon, which is one of the most famous marathons in the world and attracts 27,000 runners plus possibly hundreds of thousands of spectators (in other words, a high-profile, target-rich environment) -- there's no way the timing could have been related to the date of the marathon? It MUST have been a tax day protest?

Give ... me ... a ... break.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Hawkmoon on April 16, 2013, 02:38:11 PM
I *just* bought a BP rifle because BP gear wasn't under as much pressure as centerfire and rimfire.

Chris

Timing is everything ...


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: birdman on April 16, 2013, 04:11:11 PM
And BAM.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-boston-marathon-explosions-20130416,0,4548564.story

Note that neither the article nor the source differentiates between powder and propellant.

Get ready to spin me right round very right round, like a record baby, right round round round....


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 16, 2013, 04:31:53 PM
Two very interesting links at Drudge:

http://freebeacon.com/al-qaeda-link-probed/

An AQ magazine suggested using pressure cookers in 2010.

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/04/16/saudi_national_no_longer_person_of_interest_in_boston_bombings_no_other_suspects

No suspects.


A big part of me hopes this event goes unsolved.

Why?  How could I be so callous to justice? 

I'm tired of nannyism.  You just can't prevent everything.  You can't buy security.  You have to earn it.  And maybe something like this going unsolved would cause New England and other parts of the US that aren't "flyover" to start taking accountability for individual actions and security rather than shoving more collectivism down my throat.



But they're probably more likely to just go London/Orwellian and throw a bunch of cameras, random van-mounted backscatter X-ray machines, obligatory frisks and searches and other things that make me stay away from "their" cities.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 16, 2013, 04:42:16 PM
Two very interesting links at Drudge:

http://freebeacon.com/al-qaeda-link-probed/

An AQ magazine suggested using pressure cookers in 2010.

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/04/16/saudi_national_no_longer_person_of_interest_in_boston_bombings_no_other_suspects

No suspects.


A big part of me hopes this event goes unsolved.

Why?  How could I be so callous to justice? 

I'm tired of nannyism.  You just can't prevent everything.  You can't buy security.  You have to earn it.  And maybe something like this going unsolved would cause New England and other parts of the US that aren't "flyover" to start taking accountability for individual actions and security rather than shoving more collectivism down my throat.



But they're probably more likely to just go London/Orwellian and throw a bunch of cameras, random van-mounted backscatter X-ray machines, obligatory frisks and searches and other things that make me stay away from "their" cities.
Dear sweet fluffy Cthulhu


I agree completely


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AmbulanceDriver on April 16, 2013, 05:03:32 PM
And BAM.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-boston-marathon-explosions-20130416,0,4548564.story

Note that neither the article nor the source differentiates between powder and propellant.

Get ready to spin me right round very right round, like a record baby, right round round round....

I find it interesting that the source(s) [allegedly] don't seem to actually come right out and say that the explosive residue was of gunpowder, blackpowder, etc.   Just seem to make that assumption.   Granted, that assumption may be correct, but I'm so [censored] tired of the media just pulling things out of their fourth point of contact....


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Bigjake on April 16, 2013, 05:09:40 PM
Dear sweet fluffy Cthulhu


I agree completely

What he said,  and well said.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: fistful on April 16, 2013, 06:56:32 PM
Anybody else notice they failed to throw a welcome back party for the word "terrorism"? He's been out in the cold for a while, and he just suddenly shows up, and nobody says anything? Odd.  ;/

Well, I guess he hasn't been totally gone. Just ruled out for anything that can't be blamed on the vast right-wing conspiracy.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: fistful on April 16, 2013, 06:57:50 PM
But they're probably more likely to just go London/Orwellian and throw a bunch of cameras, random van-mounted backscatter X-ray machines, obligatory frisks and searches and other things that make me stay away from "their" cities.


Hey, whatever it takes to keep you away. I can't blame 'em!  :P


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: CypherNinja on April 16, 2013, 07:14:28 PM
Crime scene photos:

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/21996004/exclusive-photos-boston-marathon-bomb

Pressure cooker + BP + pellets and finishing nails apparently.

A big part of me hopes this event goes unsolved.

Why?  How could I be so callous to justice? 

I'm tired of nannyism.  You just can't prevent everything.  You can't buy security.  You have to earn it.  And maybe something like this going unsolved would cause New England and other parts of the US that aren't "flyover" to start taking accountability for individual actions and security rather than shoving more collectivism down my throat.



But they're probably more likely to just go London/Orwellian and throw a bunch of cameras, random van-mounted backscatter X-ray machines, obligatory frisks and searches and other things that make me stay away from "their" cities.

Does sorta make make sense, but another part of me wants to see the perpetrator castrated with a golf club.   :mad: [ar15]

Seriously though, if this goes unsolved (or solved, really), that guy on the roof is gonna be Boston's version of the grassy knoll.  :facepalm:


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Hawkmoon on April 16, 2013, 08:03:13 PM
Anybody else notice they failed to throw a welcome back party for the word "terrorism"? He's been out in the cold for a while, and he just suddenly shows up, and nobody says anything? Odd.  ;/

Well, I guess he hasn't been totally gone. Just ruled out for anything that can't be blamed on the vast right-wing conspiracy.

What I noticed was some DHS talking head in an interview taking credit for the fact that we haven't had many high profile bombings for a number of years. But as he got into specifics of some plots, it became immediately apparent that the plots were not stopped by DHS (or any other government agency at any level), but by the stupidity and/or incompetence of the plotters.

I was not reassured by his words (not that I expected to be).


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: zxcvbob on April 16, 2013, 09:49:01 PM
Why a pressure cooker?  I know it's a pressure vessel, but so is a 1# propane tank, and those are cheaper and should have a much higher burst strength.  Or just a good ol' fashioned pipe with endcaps.  It's not like they were creating a steam BLEV explosion.

Probably not good to wonder these things out-loud...


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: makattak on April 17, 2013, 04:04:47 AM
Why a pressure cooker?  I know it's a pressure vessel, but so is a 1# propane tank, and those are cheaper and should have a much higher burst strength.  Or just a good ol' fashioned pipe with endcaps.  It's not like they were creating a steam BLEV explosion.

Probably not good to wonder these things out-loud...

It was in one of Al Queda's magazines how to make one from a pressure cooker.

http://minx.cc:81/?post=208787

This blog post summarizes the point without having to go to an Al Queda website for the details.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: makattak on April 17, 2013, 04:05:55 AM
Most likely it was chosen by Al Queda because middle eastern peoples are far more familiar with pressure cookers than with propane tanks.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: MillCreek on April 17, 2013, 04:12:00 AM
^^^ And then it was more widely disseminated by Stormfront and other white supremacist websites.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Ben on April 17, 2013, 04:30:12 AM
So are they already ruling out international terrorism?

Quote
"Someone knows who did this," DesLauriers said. "Importantly, the person who did this is someone's friend, neighbor, co-worker or relative."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/17/fbi-boston-police-say-range-suspects-motives-remains-wide-open/#ixzz2QisZSdvs

Between quotes I've seen like that above, and the President actually using the word "terrorism", I'm figuring they think, or want to think, it's domestic. If it was Al Qeada, Obama would have said that we can't jump to conclusions, and maybe it was" workplace violence".


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 17, 2013, 04:55:55 AM
Coincidience?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/17/us-usa-congress-ricin-idUSBRE93F1ES20130417?feedType=RSS&dlvrit=574655



Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: bedlamite on April 17, 2013, 05:00:14 AM
Coincidience?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/17/us-usa-congress-ricin-idUSBRE93F1ES20130417?feedType=RSS&dlvrit=574655



He was also one of the (R) senators to vote for Cloture last week.

In other news:

WBC plans on protesting Boston funerals (http://www.usnews.com/news/newsgram/articles/2013/04/16/boston-bombing-funerals-will-be-picketed-westboro-baptist-church-says)

(http://i.imgur.com/fFRDV5Z.jpg)


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: roo_ster on April 17, 2013, 05:12:24 AM
They're going to be mighty busy in/around schools.

Chris

Why, yes they are. 

Three advantages to the school heavy approach:
1. Visible presence "protecting our children."
2. Indoctrinate the kiddos to be compliant with unconstitutional searches.
3. Very small likelihood of ever finding a real threat.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: RoadKingLarry on April 17, 2013, 05:34:51 AM
Quote
3. Very small likelihood of ever finding a real threat.

Officer safety.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: zahc on April 17, 2013, 06:46:51 AM
Please explain the "guy on the roof"?

Sorry, I haven't been following the paleomedia very well.

Pressure cooker makes perfect sense to me. Nice big lid compared to a propane tank, common, also innocuous. It's a piece of kitchen cookware which does not look as suspicious as a propane tank in many situation such as in your car or being carried around.

I'm surprised at how small the thing is. The only pressure cookers I ever knew were like 10 gallons so you can put 2 layers of canning jars in them. I didn't even know they made pressure cookers that small. I guess people must use them for something besides canning?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 17, 2013, 06:59:45 AM
Please explain the "guy on the roof"?

Sorry, I haven't been following the paleomedia very well.

Pressure cooker makes perfect sense to me. Nice big lid compared to a propane tank, common, also innocuous. It's a piece of kitchen cookware which does not look as suspicious as a propane tank in many situation such as in your car or being carried around.

I'm surprised at how small the thing is. The only pressure cookers I ever knew were like 10 gallons so you can put 2 layers of canning jars in them. I didn't even know they made pressure cookers that small. I guess people must use them for something besides canning?


Guy on the roof


http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/technology/2013/04/mystery-man-on-the-roof-image-goes-viral-sparking-boston-marathon-chatter/

Pressure cooker recipies
http://www.food.com/recipes/pressure-cooker

I think the pressure cooker design would lend itself to creating a nice shaped charge, too.  Send your blast out in a 360 degree pattern, but not up or down.  Good for creating mass casualties.  It's a shame we can't have the pepetrator drawn and quartered by motorcycles.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: MillCreek on April 17, 2013, 07:26:55 AM

I'm surprised at how small the thing is. The only pressure cookers I ever knew were like 10 gallons so you can put 2 layers of canning jars in them. I didn't even know they made pressure cookers that small. I guess people must use them for something besides canning?

I have a six quart Fagor stovetop pressure cooker.  Back when the kids were still at home, and I was cooking for four, I used it all the time.  It was the bees knees to come home after work, and get a good meal on the table quickly.  Now that it is just the two of us, it occurs to me that I hardly use it at all anymore.  I should dig it out from the garage and flip through some of my pressure cooker cookbooks.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: never_retreat on April 17, 2013, 09:00:44 AM
In the pictures shown of the bomb fragments on fox news it looks like it was some sort of electric pressure cooker.
Plug in counter top type device?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 17, 2013, 09:47:00 AM
In the pictures shown of the bomb fragments on fox news it looks like it was some sort of electric pressure cooker.
Plug in counter top type device?


Probably.  I think the pressure cooker is only the vessel.  I think it's about the shape, and the locking lid.  Plus a pressure cooker is pretty innocuous. 

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57579890/homeland-security-warned-about-pressure-cooker-bombs/


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: fistful on April 17, 2013, 09:56:46 AM
Pressure cookers? My moms is a terrarists!!!


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: mtnbkr on April 17, 2013, 09:59:46 AM
Pressure cookers? My moms is a terrarists!!!

Her cooking is that bad?

Chris


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 17, 2013, 10:00:45 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/17/us/boston-blasts/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Suspected arrested, according to CNN.  Light on details.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Gewehr98 on April 17, 2013, 10:20:16 AM
Quote
And the cartridges?

    You may substitute the inflammable substance extracted from matches by gunpowder used in cartilages

I knew there were days when my bad knee and hip joints felt like they were gonna explode, but I had no idea!!!  :O


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 17, 2013, 10:27:48 AM
Suspect is being reported as "dark skinned". 


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: seeker_two on April 17, 2013, 10:33:12 AM
It was in one of Al Queda's magazines how to make one from a pressure cooker.

http://minx.cc:81/?post=208787

I just keep waiting for this stuff to show up on Pinterest....


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: never_retreat on April 17, 2013, 10:38:06 AM
I really don't give any credit to most of the stuff on Alex Jones's site. But take a look at these pictures.
http://www.infowars.com/boston-bombing-culprits-found/ (http://www.infowars.com/boston-bombing-culprits-found/)


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Phyphor on April 17, 2013, 10:39:39 AM
Suspect is being reported as "dark skinned". 

Word got around that they got this guy on camera, dropping off a backpack at the site.  If true, this guy is completely screwed.

If this guy's an American, since he killed a Chinese national, what'll happen to him?  Will the Chinese insist on extradition?
Will we do it?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Marnoot on April 17, 2013, 11:09:00 AM
All the news sites are now saying no arrest was made.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Balog on April 17, 2013, 11:21:03 AM
Including the story JJ linked, must have updated it. I wonder if they caught the guy then Gitmo'ed him?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 17, 2013, 11:39:34 AM
Maybe his particular demographics or motivations didnt fit the narrative


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: dogmush on April 17, 2013, 12:02:10 PM
I really don't give any credit to most of the stuff on Alex Jones's site. But take a look at these pictures.
http://www.infowars.com/boston-bombing-culprits-found/ (http://www.infowars.com/boston-bombing-culprits-found/)


Can't speak for the content of that site, but that picture of the two guys in kahki cargo pants, desert boots, black coats, black bags, ear pieces, and one guy wearing a Punisher hat?

Those guys couldn't be more military/LEO if they tried. Either plainclothes working the event, or something else.  But definately working.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 17, 2013, 12:58:56 PM
Can't speak for the content of that site, but that picture of the two guys in kahki cargo pants, desert boots, black coats, black bags, ear pieces, and one guy wearing a Punisher hat?

Those guys couldn't be more military/LEO if they tried. Either plainclothes working the event, or something else.  But definately working.


Ugh.  Damn I hope they're not some sort of wackadoodle militia types. 

IMHO they totally look .mil or contractor.  I'm thinking they were working, too, and just got caught up in it like everyone else.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 17, 2013, 01:03:25 PM
Including the story JJ linked, must have updated it. I wonder if they caught the guy then Gitmo'ed him?

FBI is "scolding" CNN and other media outlets now.

Makes me wonder how many people that have been non-arrested and Renditioned to places unknown.  After all, turr'ism and PATRIOT, herp derp.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 17, 2013, 01:04:16 PM
Yep everyone is backpeddling on the "arrested" part.

FBI is "scolding" CNN and other media outlets now.

Makes me wonder how many people that have been non-arrested and Renditioned to places unknown.  After all, turr'ism and PATRIOT, herp derp.

Probably plenty, but I think this is also a symptom of news for profit.  Gotta be first to get the story to compete.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 17, 2013, 01:06:10 PM
Now pictures are being circulated of a clearly white male carrying a backpack over his arm that resembles one that is supposedly the same one that had the explosive.

I think this is becoming a speculative boondoggle.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Ben on April 17, 2013, 02:15:47 PM
Now pictures are being circulated of a clearly white male carrying a backpack over his arm that resembles one that is supposedly the same one that had the explosive.

I think this is becoming a speculative boondoggle.

I'm hoping to be proven wrong, but I'm still sticking with my tinfoil original thesis that once Obama actually said the word "terrorism", this would not end in any other way except with the arrest of an individual(s) associated with a domestic group that leans right.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 17, 2013, 02:23:11 PM
Now pictures are being circulated of a clearly white male carrying a backpack over his arm that resembles one that is supposedly the same one that had the explosive.

I think this is becoming a speculative boondoggle.

I bet he drove away in a white box truck too.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: RoadKingLarry on April 17, 2013, 06:05:52 PM
I bet he drove away in a white box truck too.

With NRA and pro life stickers and a Gadsden flag license plate.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: never_retreat on April 17, 2013, 08:34:56 PM
Lets do a round up.
3 dead
100+ injured
APS experts believe the device contained black powder or some other low grade explosive. <-- more trustworthy than the msm
Device contained in a pressure cooker, inside a backpack
no actual suspect
no chatter on the typical jihad sources, before or after
no one claiming ownership of the bombing <--This has me a little thrown off, usually someone will try and take ownership.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Phyphor on April 17, 2013, 09:32:09 PM
no one claiming ownership of the bombing <--This has me a little thrown off, usually someone will try and take ownership.


This right here kind of freezes the blood.  Normally, somebody will slip up and say something.  It makes me kind of think that whoever did this is planning to continue, at some point.
Hope they catch his ass.



Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 18, 2013, 05:43:50 AM
This right here kind of freezes the blood.  Normally, somebody will slip up and say something.  It makes me kind of think that whoever did this is planning to continue, at some point.
Hope they catch his ass.



Operation Northwoods ...?   =|   [tinfoil]

Or there is always the possibility that the person that set the bombs got caught in the explosion.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: never_retreat on April 18, 2013, 06:32:21 AM
This right here kind of freezes the blood.  Normally, somebody will slip up and say something.  It makes me kind of think that whoever did this is planning to continue, at some point.
Hope they catch his ass.


Ding Ding Ding, we have a wiener.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Balog on April 18, 2013, 07:46:17 AM
Between this, the ricin letters, and the AN plant fire/explosion it's interesting times in the Chinese proverb sense.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 18, 2013, 08:17:22 AM
http://www.storyleak.com/craft-international-private-military-forces-boston-marathon/

Interesting observations being led by 4chan of all places.  Fap fap bang.

(http://i.imgur.com/SAH5IBb.jpg)


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 18, 2013, 08:25:20 AM
Interesting that Chris Kyle (founder of Craft International) was killed in Feb of this year in a PTSD related shooting at a shooting range.

No mention on Craft's site of who runs the company now.  Nor mention that Kyle is dead.

http://www.thecraft.com/AboutUs.html



Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 18, 2013, 08:51:55 AM
Kraft does a lot of security consulting work for gov and private corps.. I've met some of their folks... I'd be highly hesitant to assume they were involved in any kind of false flag operation.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: dogmush on April 18, 2013, 09:05:17 AM
A whole team there with wearing their logo garb?

100 to 1 they had a security gig.
 
That team is not exactly "blend in because we're doing nefarious work" ready.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 18, 2013, 09:06:23 AM
A whole team there with wearing their logo garb?

100 to 1 they had a security gig.
 
That team is not exactly "blend in because we're doing nefarious work" ready.

Also this


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: fistful on April 18, 2013, 09:19:13 AM
A whole team there with wearing their logo garb?

100 to 1 they had a security gig.
 
That team is not exactly "blend in because we're doing nefarious work" ready.

THAT'S HOW THEY GOT AWAY WITH IT!!!!1111


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 18, 2013, 09:40:08 AM
OK, then they are extraordinarily incompetent, then... they were right next to the bombers and site of bombing and did nothing to prevent it or help the wounded.

But at least they looked good in the not-uniform-uniforms.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Gewehr98 on April 18, 2013, 09:51:43 AM
Quote
OK, then they are extraordinarily incompetent, then

Because their standing orders for the day were to look for backpacks w/pressure cookers inside?

Backpacks - at the Boston Marathon. 

Sorry, that's like being ordered to look for donuts at Krispy Kreme.   


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 18, 2013, 09:52:39 AM
OK, then they are extraordinarily incompetent, then... they were right next to the bombers and site of bombing and did nothing to prevent it or help the wounded.

But at least they looked good in the not-uniform-uniforms.

Incompetent because they didn't stop the bombing?

Please, inform us of how they could have stopped it.

Protip: even with high amounts of security, these things can't be stopped all the time. Isn't that what we always tell the antis about gun control?

How do you know they didn't help the wounded? How do you have any info whatsoever of their actions during and after the attack?

My HMMWV got blown up while I was on route clearance duty. Does that mean I'm incompetent because we missed one IED out of many many more that we found?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 18, 2013, 10:10:20 AM
Because their standing orders for the day were to look for backpacks w/pressure cookers inside?

Backpacks - at the Boston Marathon. 

Sorry, that's like being ordered to look for donuts at Krispy Kreme.   

Is there a drawn and quartered corpse that has been blown apart by being attached to 5 pounds of BP?

Nope.  Which means the backpack was left on the ground.

These guys were RIGHT THERE seconds before it happened.  High speed low drag SEEL steely-eyed operators right there, and they didn't catch it.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: cordex on April 18, 2013, 10:21:42 AM
Is there a drawn and quartered corpse that has been blown apart by being attached to 5 pounds of BP?

Nope.  Which means the backpack was left on the ground.

These guys were RIGHT THERE seconds before it happened.  High speed low drag SEEL steely-eyed operators right there, and they didn't catch it.
There's also a backpack on the ground a few feet in front of them.  Should they have tackled the guy holding his little girl because he set his backpack down?

Edit: Never mind, that's a stroller, and no bomb could ever be left in a stroller.  The point is that bad stuff can look exactly like normal stuff, and even if you see a backpack sitting on the ground in the middle of a crowd it doesn't necessarily mean anything.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 18, 2013, 10:31:31 AM


Uh oh!

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_qFQkBCj7w_g/S_A6WEtOPCI/AAAAAAAAEBU/Kwf8Ntg4pGg/s400/DSC_0057_1.JPG)


(http://ciee.typepad.com/.a/6a010536fa9ded970b017c37ae740f970b-800wi)

(https://pub.mtholyoke.edu/journal/aroundtheworld/resource/layli/Juggling.jpg)


(http://upbsfi.org/travelogue/12salamanca/13b%20Local%20student%20tourists%20also%20come%20and%20visit%20the%20university-s.jpg)


And a TRASH can!

(https://yfrog.com/Himg862/scaled.php?tn=0&server=862&filename=zo5ch.jpg&xsize=480&ysize=480)


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Nick1911 on April 18, 2013, 10:35:57 AM
So, speculation aside, who actually were these guys?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 18, 2013, 10:36:38 AM
So, speculation aside, who actually were these guys?

Craft Security, from the looks of the logo on the hat


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 18, 2013, 10:42:44 AM
All the alex jones tin foil hattery....and yet in the last "team gathering" picture, they are still wearing those backpacks.  Um..Uh... :facepalm:


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Balog on April 18, 2013, 10:46:37 AM
If you're going to do a false flag op, wearing gear with your company logo on it seems like a pretty glaring mistake.

And AZ, if you think that you'd have noticed and been able to prevent it for certain you're kidding yourself. Even the best special ops folks are still just humans with all the limitations that implies.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 18, 2013, 10:49:38 AM
If you're going to do a false flag op, wearing gear with your company logo on it seems like a pretty glaring mistake.

And AZ, if you think that you'd have noticed and been able to prevent it for certain you're kidding yourself. Even the best special ops folks are still just humans with all the limitations that implies.

But that's what makes it so brilliant!  Do it in plain sight!!!!!  :facepalm:


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Balog on April 18, 2013, 10:51:18 AM
Hell, to the infowars crowd doing it in uniform and claiming responsibility is probably the best proof that the group represented didn't actually do it.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: geronimotwo on April 18, 2013, 11:05:56 AM
set-up?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fly320s on April 18, 2013, 11:22:43 AM
set-up?

More like internet commandos with no clue of reality wildly speculating based on a few photos and a large tub of cheese puffs.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 18, 2013, 11:23:44 AM
More like internet commandos with no clue of reality wildly speculating based on a few photos and a large tub of cheese puffs.

(http://cdn.crushable.com/files/2011/07/cheesy-poofs.jpg)


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Gewehr98 on April 18, 2013, 11:28:57 AM
Tub or backpack full of Cheesy Poofs?  =D


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: lupinus on April 18, 2013, 11:37:14 AM
Tub or backpack full of Cheesy Poofs?  =D
Pressure cooker inside a backpack full of cheesy poofs  :rofl:


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: seeker_two on April 18, 2013, 11:41:16 AM
My HMMWV got blown up while I was on route clearance duty. Does that mean I'm incompetent because we missed one IED out of many many more that we found?

Well....we have to send the bill to someone....

=D


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 18, 2013, 11:58:48 AM
Quote
My HMMWV got blown up while I was on route clearance duty. Does that mean I'm incompetent because we missed one IED out of many many more that we found?

Well, you actually did find it  ;)



Also ... I heard that there were people running in the street in Boston before the first blast  =|  [tinfoil]  :angel:

sorry, couldn't help myself


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Balog on April 18, 2013, 02:00:37 PM
Feds have released pictures and video of two suspects, although their website has been crashing off and on from the load. http://www.fbi.gov/news/updates-on-investigation-into-multiple-explosions-in-boston/updates-on-investigation-into-multiple-explosions-in-boston


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 18, 2013, 02:03:17 PM
Crap


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 18, 2013, 02:04:42 PM
Feds have released pictures and video of two suspects, although their website has been crashing off and on from the load. http://www.fbi.gov/news/updates-on-investigation-into-multiple-explosions-in-boston/updates-on-investigation-into-multiple-explosions-in-boston

OWS punk?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 18, 2013, 02:06:57 PM
OWS punk?

Hope so


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 18, 2013, 02:07:29 PM
Feds have released pictures and video of two suspects, although their website has been crashing off and on from the load. http://www.fbi.gov/news/updates-on-investigation-into-multiple-explosions-in-boston/updates-on-investigation-into-multiple-explosions-in-boston

Also here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=M80DXI932OE


Not sure what the suspicion is  ???  Looks like they both had their backpacks with them in all the clips.  =|


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Balog on April 18, 2013, 02:13:15 PM
Or AQ who got their idea of American dress from movies about frat boys. Or a sleeper cell of local jihadis like Roubini mentioned. http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2013/04/roubini-sleeper-cell-behind-boston-attack-161845.html

But honestly, this is confusing. If it was a defitional "terrorist" attack ie attempting to affect political change via infliction of terror then you'd see someone claiming responsibility. If it was a random crazy dude ala the Unabomber there wouldn't be two of them. It's not an obvious and symbolic target like a building or gathering to support an ideology. I don't get the targeting, I don't get the methodology, I don't get the suspects. On 9/11, it was pretty clear why they did what they did even if their "logic" was absurd and evil. But this? Just feels like an openning act...


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 18, 2013, 02:15:12 PM
Or AQ who got their idea of American dress from movies about frat boys. Or a sleeper cell of local jihadis like Roubini mentioned. http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2013/04/roubini-sleeper-cell-behind-boston-attack-161845.html

But honestly, this is confusing. If it was a defitional "terrorist" attack ie attempting to affect political change via infliction of terror then you'd see someone claiming responsibility. If it was a random crazy dude ala the Unabomber there wouldn't be two of them. It's not an obvious and symbolic target like a building or gathering to support an ideology. I don't get the targeting, I don't get the methodology, I don't get the suspects. On 9/11, it was pretty clear why they did what they did even if their "logic" was absurd and evil. But this? Just feels like an openning act...

Dc snipers

Two dudes who just wanted to kill folks


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: fistful on April 18, 2013, 02:18:34 PM
Dc snipers

Two dudes who just wanted to kill folks


Weren't they two Islamists?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Balog on April 18, 2013, 02:19:39 PM
Let's think through the groups that might have done this.

AQ or similar: Boston marathon not a symbolic target, no claimed responsibility.

OWS types: marathon not a right wing or capitalist institution, no claimed responsibility.

Domestic right winger ala Chris Matthews wet dreams: Boston marathon not symbolic of anything they'd be pissed about, no claimed responsibility.

Random crazy person: not usually a group, no manifesto.

I mean, what does that even leave? Radical environmentalists?

It just keeps bugging me. If this was an ideological statement, there would have been responsibility claimed.


Dc snipers

Two dudes who just wanted to kill folks

True... But they weren't even competent to change cars. Something like this suggests a higher order of competence. I dunno...


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 18, 2013, 02:21:33 PM
But this? Just feels like an openning act...

Imagine if someone wanted to truly demonstrate the futility of government (especially reactive government) and was willing to throw their life away to do so.  Show the ultimate folly of Patriot Acts to their final goal.

Bombings with no explanation or claims of responsibility or demands.  Chemical plant explosions.  Poison sent in the mail to lawmakers.  Maybe some attacks on transportation infrastructure, next?

No goal other than to compel people to choke themselves on an excess of ineffective rules.


ETA:  No, I'm not your guy.  I was physically in my office in Scottsdale that day, and as frustrated as I am with the system, I'm not at that point. =D


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Balog on April 18, 2013, 02:26:06 PM
Ricin boy has been ID'ed, he's a Democrat Elvis impersonnator from MS. Hardly the anarcho-topian sort you're fapping about over there.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: fistful on April 18, 2013, 02:28:40 PM
I don't understand why anyone would target the Boston Marathon, either. It doesn't even get much news coverage or have that high of a profile. I'm thinking it must have been someone looking for a large group of people, but something easier to get into than your usual sporting event or concert. Someone local.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Balog on April 18, 2013, 02:35:24 PM
Radicalized college students like we saw in the 60's, perhaps?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: birdman on April 18, 2013, 02:39:07 PM
Told you so:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/345866/senator-introduce-legislation-requiring-background-checks-sale-explosive-powder


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 18, 2013, 02:42:39 PM
Told you so:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/345866/senator-introduce-legislation-requiring-background-checks-sale-explosive-powder

I want to know:

1. The length of the bill in question, in pages or words
2. The typing speed of the Senator, or the dictation/typing speed of his secretary.

Dollars to donuts this jerk had the bill stashed in a file cabinet, waiting for the next opportunity to just take a little bit more.

No more.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Viking on April 18, 2013, 02:42:57 PM
I think you might be looking at it the wrong way - consider it for a while. The target: the people. Any people. Men, women, kids. Symbolic? Perhaps not. But the act is a statement in itself - "you believe you're safe - you're not". Any time you're at the mall, or a sporting event, or an amusement park, or have taken your kids to the playground, you're potentially within the range of someone with a backpack full of explosives. How's that for terror?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 18, 2013, 02:45:52 PM
I think you might be looking at it the wrong way - consider it for a while. The target: the people. Any people. Men, women, kids. Symbolic? Perhaps not. But the act is a statement in itself - "you believe you're safe - you're not". Any time you're at the mall, or a sporting event, or an amusement park, or have taken your kids to the playground, you're potentially within the range of someone with a backpack full of explosives. How's that for terror?

Color me uninspired. ;/

It happened in a Blue City.

It always happens in a Blue City.

I don't live in a Blue City, and I don't have intentions of visiting any Blue Cities any time soon.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fly320s on April 18, 2013, 02:51:14 PM
Was Atlanta a blue city?

How about Oklahoma City?



Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: fistful on April 18, 2013, 03:12:35 PM
I think you might be looking at it the wrong way - consider it for a while. The target: the people. Any people. Men, women, kids. Symbolic? Perhaps not. But the act is a statement in itself - "you believe you're safe - you're not". Any time you're at the mall, or a sporting event, or an amusement park, or have taken your kids to the playground, you're potentially within the range of someone with a backpack full of explosives. How's that for terror?


That part I get, but the terrorist would want us to know who we should fear. Who do we appease, to make the bombings stop? The marathon wasn't on anyone's hate list, so the terrorist should be letting us know who he represents. But he hasn't.

So I guess until someone claims responsibility, I'll be avoiding anything health or fitness-related, and make sure I buy enough donuts and Big Gulps to appease the anti-marathon faction.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Viking on April 18, 2013, 03:24:16 PM

That part I get, but the terrorist would want us to know who we should fear. Who do we appease, to make the bombings stop? The marathon wasn't on anyone's hate list, so the terrorist should be letting us know who he represents. But he hasn't.

So I guess until someone claims responsibility, I'll be avoiding anything health or fitness-related, and make sure I buy enough donuts and Big Gulps to appease the anti-marathon faction.
If they intend to stop the bombings. They could be bombing for the cause of causing terror.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jim147 on April 18, 2013, 03:28:17 PM
This race draws people from all around the world. Who is in the hospital? Could this have been an international hit with the second bomb thrown in to distract? Give them time to get away?

I'm starting to think it was a small cell from some terrorist group that doesn't want a predator drone blowing them up if they take credit for it so they are just enjoying the panic going on.

jim


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Ben on April 18, 2013, 03:35:00 PM
Told you so:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/345866/senator-introduce-legislation-requiring-background-checks-sale-explosive-powder

Well, sorry to start the panic buying, but I'm not getting caught flat-footed. Just ordered a 12lb combo of 2F and 3F from Grafs. Two week order processing wait.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 18, 2013, 03:39:05 PM
If frat boy in the photos is the perp....I wonder if it's just a random act of insanity....
Everyone seems to want it to be the result of an ideology.  But what if these are just another set of wack-a-doodles?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on April 18, 2013, 04:27:39 PM
Trying to understand insainity, is by definition, insane.

I rolled my eyes about about the Kraft guys. Hmmm... Bunch of reasonably fit guys at a sporting event that allows for amatures to participate. I love that no one mentioned the possibilty that they where standing around, in their special clothes, to celebrate a friend finishing the Bosten Marathon?

Bomb makers don't always make it away from their scene completly intact. Could the reason behind no one taking credit for this act be that the person/s in question are still receiving medical treatment? Or, if insane nutjob lone wackadoodle, freaked out by becoming injured and keeping quiet because they've furthered their wackadoodle state?

I'm just pointing out that there are some reasonable explainations for a lack of someone taking credit then the doom and gloom of "they want to do it again !!1!"


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: fistful on April 18, 2013, 04:37:43 PM
I'm just pointing out that there are some reasonable explainations for a lack of someone taking credit then the doom and gloom of "they want to do it again !!1!"


I don't think it's doom and gloom. Just collatin' data, as they say. There could be another terrorist attack anywhere, at any time. Not doom and gloom, just life on planet Earf.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on April 18, 2013, 04:45:44 PM

I don't think it's doom and gloom. Just collatin' data, as they say. There could be another terrorist attack anywhere, at any time. Not doom and gloom, just life on planet Earf.

Then be sure to be collaten' all of it. Everybodys hearing hoofbeats... But I'm betting all the zebras are still in Africa.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: fistful on April 18, 2013, 05:08:26 PM
But I'm betting all the zebras are still in Africa.


That's where I'm keeping all of mine.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 18, 2013, 05:30:59 PM
Napolitano says the "individuals" are not "suspects" but are to be considered "extremely armed and dangerous."

http://www.boston.com/metrodesk/2013/04/18/authorities-have-clear-video-images-two-suspects-boston-marathon-bombings-official-says/eDuBdL4QhkcMVwhlrVBrcJ/story.html

Sounds like deliberate language to evade the legal system and rendition these non-suspects somewhere and coach them in the "right" answers when/if they ever get a trial.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 18, 2013, 05:43:08 PM
Napolitano says the "individuals" are not "suspects" but are to be considered "extremely armed and dangerous."

http://www.boston.com/metrodesk/2013/04/18/authorities-have-clear-video-images-two-suspects-boston-marathon-bombings-official-says/eDuBdL4QhkcMVwhlrVBrcJ/story.html

Sounds like deliberate language to evade the legal system and rendition these non-suspects somewhere and coach them in the "right" answers when/if they ever get a trial.

You dropped this

 [tinfoil]



Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 18, 2013, 05:48:36 PM
You don't find it deliciously ironic that Napolitano and Obama are using the exact same tactics to evade due process that they condemned Bush for?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 18, 2013, 06:10:43 PM
You don't find it deliciously ironic that Napolitano and Obama are using the exact same tactics to evade due process that they condemned Bush for?

Actually I find it shameful....


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: seeker_two on April 18, 2013, 06:13:42 PM
Was Atlanta a blue city?

How about Oklahoma City?

At that time, yes. They went red after Clinton....


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 18, 2013, 06:36:58 PM
Seeing speculation off another site that this guy http://www.metro.us/boston/news/local/2013/03/24/search-for-sunil-tripathi-includes-boston/ resembles suspect number two.  Picture comparison included a side by side that IMHO was pretty convincing.....

I can't seem to get the pic captured from my kindle.

Okay okay I grabbed the laptop. 

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y88/Atc1man/ImageUploadedByTapatalk1366337576_010359_zps17adc55c.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/Atc1man/media/ImageUploadedByTapatalk1366337576_010359_zps17adc55c.jpg.html)

All I can say is  :O


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 18, 2013, 07:03:56 PM
Seeing speculation off another site that this guy http://www.metro.us/boston/news/local/2013/03/24/search-for-sunil-tripathi-includes-boston/ resembles suspect number two.  Picture comparison included a side by side that IMHO was pretty convincing.....

I can't seem to get the pic captured from my kindle.

Okay okay I grabbed the laptop. 

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y88/Atc1man/ImageUploadedByTapatalk1366337576_010359_zps17adc55c.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/Atc1man/media/ImageUploadedByTapatalk1366337576_010359_zps17adc55c.jpg.html)

All I can say is  :O

Sunil Tripathi has been missing since March 16th.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/sunil-tripathi-surveillance-footage-shows-missing-ivy-league/story?id=18845517

Brown University philosophy major.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 18, 2013, 07:18:19 PM
Gone for a month.  No signs that he was abducted or otherwise taken against his will.  *expletive deleted*ck me running.   [tinfoil]

(http://i.imgur.com/hxbUSf0.jpg)



Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 18, 2013, 07:26:24 PM
Yeah I dunno.  The more I look at the pic, Sunil has more of a hook at the tip of his nose.  The suspect has a more rounded ear, too.  Close, but I'm thinking no.  Damn interesting the *expletive deleted*it that the crowdsourcing is turning up, though.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 18, 2013, 07:34:46 PM
Yeah I dunno.  The more I look at the pic, Sunil has more of a hook at the tip of his nose.  The suspect has a more rounded ear, too.  Close, but I'm thinking no.  Damn interesting the *expletive deleted* that the crowdsourcing is turning up, though.

Camera angles are interesting.  Large nostrils from a slightly lower angle can make a nose hook, while from a level or above camera angle be straight.  Same with ears.

Another pic.  Note the T-shirt.

(http://www.golocalprov.com/images/made/images/remote/http_media.golocalprov.com/News/sunil3_360_360.jpg)


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 18, 2013, 07:42:44 PM
Camera angles are interesting.  Large nostrils from a slightly lower angle can make a nose hook, while from a level or above camera angle be straight.  Same with ears.

Another pic.  Note the T-shirt.

(http://www.golocalprov.com/images/made/images/remote/http_media.golocalprov.com/News/sunil3_360_360.jpg)

Yeah, in one of the camera angles, their ears match up pretty well.  Definitely suspicious.  However, I was reading a reddit thread where people are apparently accusing the kid outright on the "find Sunil" facebook page.   :facepalm:


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 18, 2013, 07:56:37 PM
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/04/18/shooting-reported-on-mit-campus/

MIT campus cop got shot tonight.


Our "non-suspect" who is extremely armed and dangerous?  Hiding with a sympathetic friend at a neighboring school, or using the MIT computer lab or library for anonymous computer use?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Azrael256 on April 18, 2013, 08:12:15 PM
Interesting picture of Tripathi with shaggy hair about midway down this page: http://www.capitalbay.com/headline/324640-sunil-tripathi-case-new-surveillance-video-shows-missing-brown-student-leaving-his-home-on-the-day-of-his-disappearance-as-his-brother-reveals-the-22-year-old-suffers-from-depression.html

Looks a bit more like the suspect.  Maybe meaningless.  Not too different from how I look when in dire need of a haircut.

Still, very curious.


Title: BREAKING: Shooting at MIT going down now.
Post by: Phyphor on April 18, 2013, 08:15:05 PM
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/04/theres-shooter-loose-and-officer-down-mit/64379/

Quote
Updated 12:02 a.m.: MIT issued an emergency alert at 10:48 on Thursday night reporting shots fired on the university campus. MIT's school newspaper, The Tech, reports, "Shots fired near 32 Vassar St (Stata Center), police officer down. Please stay inside." That report is backed up by CBS News's Bonney Kapp who reports hearing "officer down" on the police scanner just before the MIT alert went out. The Tech followed up a few minutes later, reporting that the injured officer was a member of the MIT campus police and was taken to Mass. General Hospital. According to the Massachusetts State Police, the officer died from his wounds just before midnight.

Damn, what is WITH this week?

 [barf]


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 18, 2013, 08:29:52 PM
Wow, this thread is so done. Remember at the beginning, when it was about a bunch of innocent people getting their legs blown off?

This.  Enough of the McVeigh *expletive deleted*it or I'll start handing out timeouts. 


Title: Re: BREAKING: Shooting at MIT going down now.
Post by: Hawkmoon on April 18, 2013, 08:36:18 PM
Obviously a hoax. Boston has strict gun control laws -- this sort of thing can't happen there.


Title: Re: BREAKING: Shooting at MIT going down now.
Post by: Phyphor on April 18, 2013, 08:40:34 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot.  Clearly, the permit system worked perfectly here, so no dead cop!

Plus, that "no guns on campus" thing worked to perfection!


Title: Re: BREAKING: Shooting at MIT going down now.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on April 18, 2013, 09:02:26 PM
http://www.inquisitr.com/625325/mit-campus-shooting-police-officer-down/


Title: Re: BREAKING: Shooting at MIT going down now.
Post by: Regolith on April 18, 2013, 09:19:26 PM
Word I'm picking up on other websites where people are listening to the police scanners is there are automatic weapons, grenades, explosions, and possible IED's involved. Might be the marathon bombers.

Edit: Here's a reddit thread discussing what's going over the scanner:
http://www.reddit.com/r/ScannerPorn/comments/1cnr25/boston_police_fire_and_ems_live_thread_2/?sort=new


Title: Re: BREAKING: Shooting at MIT going down now.
Post by: fistful on April 18, 2013, 09:27:36 PM
The innernets is amazazing.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Balog on April 18, 2013, 09:32:24 PM
Thanks mods. Content now obsolete.


Title: Re: BREAKING: Shooting at MIT going down now.
Post by: Regolith on April 18, 2013, 09:38:01 PM
More from the local ABC affiliate:

http://www.wcvb.com/news/local/metro/Gunfire-explosions-reported-around-Dexter-Street-in-Watertown/-/11971628/19812240/-/l43of5/-/index.html

Live local feed:

http://livewire.wcvb.com/Event/117th_Running_of_Boston_Marathon


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: fistful on April 18, 2013, 10:18:24 PM
An act of terrorism that resulted in one of the worst abrogations of gun rights in American history btw.

 ???


Title: Re: BREAKING: Shooting at MIT going down now.
Post by: Physics on April 18, 2013, 10:26:06 PM
I just managed to get a scanner link to work. 

http://tunein.com/radio/Boston-Police-Fire-and-EMS-Scanner-s146109/


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: freakazoid on April 18, 2013, 10:45:57 PM
Who is this Sunil guy?


Title: Re: BREAKING: Shooting at MIT going down now.
Post by: French G. on April 18, 2013, 11:25:25 PM
Cool link, sounds ongoing, an advisement for plainclothes to be identifiable and stick with uniforms in order to not get shot. Leaving it up to listen in background.

Abandon houses? Devices? WTF?


Title: Re: BREAKING: Shooting at MIT going down now.
Post by: Crazy-G on April 18, 2013, 11:40:26 PM
Law enforcement is now saying this is the marathon bombers, one dead and one at large.


Title: Re: BREAKING: Shooting at MIT going down now.
Post by: Phyphor on April 19, 2013, 12:11:39 AM
Yeah, they're currently working on blowing-in-place devices these guys left.  The surviving one is the Brown University student that went missing a while back,
Sunil Tripathi is the name,


Title: Re: BREAKING: Shooting at MIT going down now.
Post by: French G. on April 19, 2013, 12:18:52 AM
Very professional based on the radio chatter.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: birdman on April 19, 2013, 03:32:51 AM
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/04/18/shooting-reported-on-mit-campus/

MIT campus cop got shot tonight.


Our "non-suspect" who is extremely armed and dangerous?  Hiding with a sympathetic friend at a neighboring school, or using the MIT computer lab or library for anonymous computer use?

This has nothing to do with the school, the 7-11 robbery was in between harvard and MIT, and you can't get anonymous computer use at MIT, so stop throwing the school in there.


Title: Re: BREAKING: Shooting at MIT going down now.
Post by: birdman on April 19, 2013, 03:46:43 AM
Yeah, they're currently working on blowing-in-place devices these guys left.  The surviving one is the Brown University student that went missing a while back,
Sunil Tripathi is the name,


Oh?  
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_POLICE_CONVERGE_MASS

"AP identified the surviving bomb suspect as Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev, a 19-year-old who had been living in Cambridge, just outside Boston, and said he "may be armed and dangerous."

Sunil is an odd name for a Chechen.but good on you for promulgating some other dude's name.



Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: birdman on April 19, 2013, 03:49:49 AM
Who is this Sunil guy?

No one.  Just another random person "identified" by social media.   


Title: Re: BREAKING: Shooting at MIT going down now.
Post by: geronimotwo on April 19, 2013, 03:51:43 AM
Cool link, sounds ongoing, an advisement for plainclothes to be identifiable and stick with uniforms in order to not get shot. Leaving it up to listen in background.

Abandon houses? Devices? WTF?

did some le get shot due to poor id?


Title: Re: BREAKING: Shooting at MIT going down now.
Post by: drewtam on April 19, 2013, 04:18:12 AM
did some le get shot due to poor id?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324493704578432030609754740.html?mod=WSJ_Home_largeHeadline

Quote
The violence began around 10:30 p.m., with the robbery of a 7-11 in nearby Cambridge, authorities said. The two men then fatally shot an MIT campus police officer and carjacked a Mercedes sport-utility vehicle at gunpoint, keeping the vehicle's owner hostage for about a half-hour, police said. The owner was released at a gas station in Cambridge, authorities said. He wasn't injured.



NBC has a different order

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/19/17817173-one-boston-marathon-suspect-killed-second-suspect-his-brother-on-loose-after-firefight?lite

Quote
Law enforcement officials said the tumult began just before 11 p.m., when the suspects approached a police officer from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and shot him in the head.
The two then stole the officer’s cruiser, robbed a nearby 7-Eleven, carjacked a Mercedes SUV and briefly kidnapped the driver, the sources said. The suspects threw explosives out the window during the chase that followed, they said. A Boston transit police officer was shot and wounded, authorities said.



Always difficult to get good info this early. We'll see how it pans out by the end of the day.


Title: Re: BREAKING: Shooting at MIT going down now.
Post by: kgbsquirrel on April 19, 2013, 05:00:40 AM
Been listening to the scanner feed all night. In short, running gun battles, IED's, improvised grenades, etc. going down in Boston for the last 9 hours or so.


Title: Re: BREAKING: Shooting at MIT going down now.
Post by: Ron on April 19, 2013, 05:03:29 AM
It seems they may have the second brother holed up in his house and surrounded.

Live feed from Fox in Boston.

http://www.myfoxboston.com/category/262392/boston-marathon



Title: Re: BREAKING: Shooting at MIT going down now.
Post by: freakazoid on April 19, 2013, 05:50:09 AM
Sounds like a third suspect might of left on an Amtrack train. Also don't know if I heard correctly but it sounds like black hat, the older brother, was ran over by white hat during the shoot out. ???


Title: Re: BREAKING: Shooting at MIT going down now.
Post by: Boomhauer on April 19, 2013, 05:54:37 AM
. Also don't know if I heard correctly but it sounds like black hat, the older brother, was ran over by white hat during the shoot out. ???

That's a rumor at this point, not confirmed.


Title: Re: BREAKING: Shooting at MIT going down now.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 19, 2013, 06:15:11 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/boston-mit-shooting-explosion-suspect-watertown-064355149.html


They are being identified as Chechan. 
Which I will be dollars to donuts means they are Islamists.

Sunil is Indian-American.  I highly doubt he's involved at this point.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 19, 2013, 06:16:50 AM
Who is this Sunil guy?

Sunil bears a strong resemblance to suspect number 2.  Some interesting circumstances, kid went missing in March and hasn't been seen since.

We know now that they are chechan brothers, though, and sunil is an Indian-American.  I highly doubt he's part of this cluster *expletive deleted*ck.


Title: Re: BREAKING: Shooting at MIT going down now.
Post by: Tallpine on April 19, 2013, 06:19:08 AM
Quote
The dead suspect, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, was shot multiple times in a gunfight with police Thursday night and pronounced dead at a hospital.



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/19/gunshots-reported-on-mit-campus/#ixzz2Qv2ICnrc


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 19, 2013, 06:21:29 AM
Can we please get the tacit defense of terrorism nuked from this thread on another act of random violence before Bloomberg et al grab screencaps and play it up as representing gun owners? Really not putting us in a good light here.

AZ, seriously dude. Are you autistic, or in some other way impaired from understanding human interaction? I don't ask that in a sarcastic way, I'm honestly hoping there's a legitimate explanation for trolling a thread about innocent people getting killed by supporting the killing of more innocent people. An act of terrorism that resulted in one of the worst abrogations of gun rights in American history btw.

I shitcanned the sections of the thread in question.


That was approaching a level of *expletive deleted*ed up we don't see very often around here, and we have fistful. 


Title: Re: BREAKING: Shooting at MIT going down now.
Post by: Boomhauer on April 19, 2013, 06:22:00 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/boston-mit-shooting-explosion-suspect-watertown-064355149.html


They are being identified as Chechan. 
Which I will be dollars to donuts means they are Islamists.

Sunil is Indian-American.  I highly doubt he's involved at this point.

The Chechens, besides the jihad in their own country, have also fought alongside AQ in Afghanistan.

No surprise that it's cropping up here too


Title: Re: BREAKING: Shooting at MIT going down now.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 19, 2013, 06:23:08 AM
The Chechens, besides the jihad in their own country, have also fought alongside AQ in Afghanistan.

No surprise that it's cropping up here too

*expletive deleted*ing bloody hell.  Next, it will just be utterly random.  Schools, coffee shops, malls. 



Oh, and I merged the threads, now that we know the MIT shootout are the suspects from the bombing.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Boomhauer on April 19, 2013, 06:28:50 AM
*expletive deleted* bloody hell.  Next, it will just be utterly random.  Schools, coffee shops, malls. 



Oh, and I merged the threads, now that we know the MIT shootout are the suspects from the bombing.

Beslan.



Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: fistful on April 19, 2013, 06:51:58 AM

That was approaching a level of *expletive deleted*ed up we don't see very often around here, and we have fistful. 

Challenge accepted.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 19, 2013, 06:56:20 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/questions-about-the-boston-marathon-bombing-investigation--join-yahoo-news-editors-and-reporters-for-a-live-chat-091946892.html



Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Azrael256 on April 19, 2013, 06:57:38 AM
I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate the NPR talking heads for being spot-on in their assessment of this as "homegrown" and an NRA inspired plot to disrupt the AWB/background check/mag limit ban vote.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 19, 2013, 07:01:40 AM
I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate the NPR talking heads for being spot-on in their assessment of this as "homegrown" and an NRA inspired plot to disrupt the AWB/background check/mag limit ban vote.

 :rofl:

 :facepalm:


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 19, 2013, 07:08:18 AM
Posted a couple days ago on 4chan:

(http://images.4chan.org/b/src/1366361462461.jpg)



Could be Sunil just trying for a little bit more chaos.

Or not. [tinfoil]


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 19, 2013, 07:13:37 AM
Posted a couple days ago on 4chan:

(http://images.4chan.org/b/src/1366361462461.jpg)



Could be Sunil just trying for a little bit more chaos.

Or not. [tinfoil]

Are you drunk? 
Some random ill-worded 4chan post isn't even anything resembling evidence of anything.
 :facepalm:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323809304578432501435232278.html?mod=wsj_share_tweet

All the signs are swinging towards Islamist extremists.  Of course, this will madden the administration and the media, as it doesn't fit the narrative. 

If this was a rigged event, do you think that they would pick some radicalized Chechnyan kids?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: dogmush on April 19, 2013, 07:17:18 AM

Could be Sunil just trying for a little bit more chaos.

Or not. [tinfoil]

At this point we know neither of the bombers was Sunil.

If that poor kid is still alive, don't add more crap to his name for him to have to clean up.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 19, 2013, 07:18:33 AM
Dude, anon posting is accurate.

Raid was Thurs night/Friday morning.  Lautenberg legislation presented on Wednesday to ban OTC sales of powder.  Suspect is a late teens / early 20's male.  Though the last one is pretty much a gimme.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 19, 2013, 07:20:12 AM
Quote
On the Vkontakte profile—the authenticity of which couldn't be independently verified—Mr. Tsarnayev is listed as a Muslim, his birthday as July 22 and his "most important element of life" as "career and money."

A number of the elements featured on the Vkontakte profile page relate to Islam. Under "interesting pages," the profile has selected "Salamworld: My Religion—Islam" as well as another Islam-related page. One video on the profile appears to be a propaganda clip rallying jihadists to go to Syria to fight alongside rebels there. Another is an interview that Kuwaiti Sheikh Fahad Al Kandari conducted with a blind boy who grew up memorizing the Quran. Separately, the profile shows a video of a man parodying various different accents from the Caucasus region. According to the profile, Mr. Tsarnayev belongs to three groups on the site—two related to Chechnya and another related to music and movies.


Dude, anon posting is accurate.

Raid was Thurs night/Friday morning.  Lautenberg legislation presented on Wednesday to ban OTC sales of powder.  Suspect is a late teens / early 20's male.  Though the last one is pretty much a gimme.

 ;/

You don't think that *expletive deleted* was on a shelf somewhere waiting to be dusted off?  They have a large amount of bills just waiting for the right opportunity.  Never let a good tragedy go to waste.

Or did they hire these guys to do the bombing?  Huh? Yeah, that's it!

 :facepalm:



Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: dogmush on April 19, 2013, 07:28:40 AM
Dude, anon posting is accurate.

Raid was Thurs night/Friday morning.  Lautenberg legislation presented on Wednesday to ban OTC sales of powder.  Suspect is a late teens / early 20's male.  Though the last one is pretty much a gimme.
 

Except that there wasn't a raid (one cop confronted them, and died), there are two suspects whose (first blush) motivation has nothing to do with the NRA and that legislation was pretty obviously pre written from a legislator that has a history of pre-written anti-gun bills ready to go for tragedies.

So he got the male and Age right.  Which as you said, is a gimmie.  So the post is pretty much all wrong.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 19, 2013, 07:33:10 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/control-room/

Yahoo news people are beating up on ABC for ignoring the "religious" aspect of the bombers.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: makattak on April 19, 2013, 07:35:21 AM
Dude, anon posting is accurate.

Raid was Thurs night/Friday morning.  Lautenberg legislation presented on Wednesday to ban OTC sales of powder.  Suspect is a late teens / early 20's male.  Though the last one is pretty much a gimme.

THE ONLY part about that post (that was accurate) was he got lucky on the "raid". Except, it wasn't a raid, they got spooked and killed a police officer.

The "young male, late teens to early twenties" is the description of the perpetrator the vast majority of every act of terrorism in the world, ever. Heck, make that CRIME, not just terrorism.

The "laws to restrict XXX" are the result of every single famous crime.

The "NRA materials" and "unstable" (which, I assume, he means mentally unstable) are completely wrong, and all indications are that this is Islamic terrorism.

Further, he is indicating (though never outright saying) that it would be a single "patsy" not a group. (We have at least two, possibly more, indicated by the police currently.)

So, he got three elements of his conspiracy theory "right" if you stretch and call the suspects stealing a car and shooting the police a "raid". Everything else is wrong.

His "post" has as much going for him as the 9/11 troofers: FIRE CAN'T MELT STEEL!!11!1!


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 19, 2013, 07:37:57 AM
THE ONLY part about that post (that was accurate) was he got lucky on the "raid". Except, it wasn't a raid, they got spooked and killed a police officer.

The "young male, late teens to early twenties" is the description of the perpetrator almost every single act of terrorism in the world, ever. Heck, make that CRIME, not just terrorism.

The "laws to restrict XXX" are the result of every single famous crime.

The "NRA materials" and "unstable" (which, I assume, he means mentally unstable) are completely wrong, and all indications are that this is Islamic terrorism.

Further, he is indicating (though never outright saying) that it would be a single "patsy" not a group. (We have at least two, possibly more, indicated by the police currently.)

So, he got three elements of his conspiracy theory "right" if you stretch and call the suspects stealing a car and shooting the police a "raid". Everything else is wrong.

His "post" has as much going for him as the 9/11 troofers: FIRE CAN'T MELT STEEL!!11!1!

You left out that AZ dragged Sunil's name back into it.  You know, the Indian-American liberal philosophy major.  Obviously still connected, even though the only connection to his resemblance to suspect #2, who we now have about as positive of an ID on as possible.  So Sunil must still be connected somehow.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: birdman on April 19, 2013, 07:42:18 AM
Also, the next person that affiliates these jackasses with my school gets blocked, and is likely also the cause of me blowing off this forum like I've done to others in the past.

The low-information conspiracy theory bull crap being spewed makes anyone affiliated with this board look bad, and I think its stupid.

Clean it up, choose your words, and stop with the BS.

If you value my presence here, at all, don't impugn an institution for mere GEOGRAPHIC PROXIMITY to an event.  Hell, the 7-11 robbery was just as close to Harvard, and approximately the same distance to parts of BU.

Can we put the  [tinfoil] away and act like adults?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: freakazoid on April 19, 2013, 07:48:54 AM
Went perusing though the reddit link about the radio traffic last night. Anybody know what the talk about the hospital was about?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Regolith on April 19, 2013, 07:52:49 AM
Went perusing though the reddit link about the radio traffic last night. Anybody know what the talk about the hospital was about?

Not sure; some people mentioned there being shots fired at the hospital, but I think it was a rumor or false report that turned out to be nothing.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 19, 2013, 07:59:23 AM
Quote
it was a rumor or false report that turned out to be nothing

That's never happened before  =D


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 19, 2013, 08:00:22 AM
Speaking of rumors

https://www.youtube.com/user/muazseyfullah/videos?view=0



Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Scout26 on April 19, 2013, 08:00:38 AM
Here's the timeline from Yahoo.  Seems more accurate then anything else I've seen.

http://news.yahoo.com/glance-search-boston-bomb-suspects-110724951.html



(Although my WTF moment occurred this morning when some reporter on the radio stated that the police in MA had "Pulled over a train" to search for suspect #2.  Now, you can stop a train, divert it to a siding, but you can''t hit the lights and sirens and get it to "pull over".  Morons.  :facepalm: :facepalm:)


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Devonai on April 19, 2013, 08:06:59 AM
Some of my Facebook friends in Massachusetts are echoing the advice from law enforcement to stay home and lock their doors.  No further advice for if the remaining suspect kicks your door down in a last, desperate gambit to take hostages.  Just be good little sheep and cower in your pens.  :mad:


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: zxcvbob on April 19, 2013, 08:11:00 AM
Quote
If this was a rigged event, do you think that they would pick some radicalized Chechnyan kids?

Depends who's the rigger.

Quote
Some of my Facebook friends in Massachusetts are echoing the advice from law enforcement to stay home and lock their doors.  No further advice for if the remaining suspect kicks your door down in a last, desperate gambit to take hostages.  Just be good little sheep and cower in your pens. 

That's for Officer Safety.  Think about it.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Balog on April 19, 2013, 08:12:01 AM
Kids left Chechnya when they were young, not sure how much they're still tied to the motherland.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: fistful on April 19, 2013, 08:14:28 AM
Also, the next person that affiliates these jackasses with my school gets blocked, and is likely also the cause of me blowing off this forum like I've done to others in the past.

The low-information conspiracy theory bull crap being spewed makes anyone affiliated with this board look bad, and I think its stupid.

Clean it up, choose your words, and stop with the BS.

If you value my presence here, at all, don't impugn an institution for mere GEOGRAPHIC PROXIMITY to an event.  Hell, the 7-11 robbery was just as close to Harvard, and approximately the same distance to parts of BU.

Can we put the  [tinfoil] away and act like adults?


Ditto on the tin foil, but no one has defamed your school in any way. An MIT cop was killed, right? So that's part of the story now. I hope your friends and colleagues there are ok.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: birdman on April 19, 2013, 08:20:49 AM

Ditto on the tin foil, but no one has defamed your school in any way. An MIT cop was killed, right? So that's part of the story now. I hope your friends and colleagues there are ok.

I'm still checking.  I posted that because an APS member did so on Facebook, and I didn't want his BS here as well.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Boomhauer on April 19, 2013, 08:26:03 AM
Posted a couple days ago on 4chan:

(http://images.4chan.org/b/src/1366361462461.jpg)



Could be Sunil just trying for a little bit more chaos.

Or not. [tinfoil]

You know what? *expletive deleted*ck 4CHAN. They ain't been right about JACK *expletive deleted*ing *expletive deleted*it.



Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Balog on April 19, 2013, 08:29:33 AM
I'm still checking.  I posted that because an APS member did so on Facebook, and I didn't want his BS here as well.

Dude. When I saw an MIT cop had been shot, I wondered if it might be related. No one is impugning anything, and your insistence that the mere thought that anyone attending MIT might have been involved is insulting to you personally somehow is assinine. You really need to calm down.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 19, 2013, 08:35:29 AM
Doesn't MIT harbor instruments of math instruction?   :lol:


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: dogmush on April 19, 2013, 08:39:43 AM
Doesn't MIT harbor instruments of math instruction?   :lol:

Depends on who you ask.  I know a Caltech grad who would say no.  [popcorn]


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fly320s on April 19, 2013, 08:43:33 AM

That's where I'm keeping all of mine.

I know of zebras in Keller, TX and Vermont.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Pharmacology on April 19, 2013, 09:32:03 AM
Well, sorry to start the panic buying, but I'm not getting caught flat-footed. Just ordered a 12lb combo of 2F and 3F from Grafs. Two week order processing wait.

Whelp, there goes my dreams of buying a Howda  in a few months, LOL.

Also, the next person that affiliates these jackasses with my school gets blocked, and is likely also the cause of me blowing off this forum like I've done to others in the past.

If you value my presence here, at all, don't

Sounds like you value your presence a whole bunch   =D


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: birdman on April 19, 2013, 10:33:39 AM

Ditto on the tin foil, but no one has defamed your school in any way. An MIT cop was killed, right? So that's part of the story now. I hope your friends and colleagues there are ok.

So far, everyone is okay, one of my friends lived across the street from the two guys, and the initial shoot out occurred outside of the building where quite a few people i am friends with worked.

Dude. When I saw an MIT cop had been shot, I wondered if it might be related. No one is impugning anything, and your insistence that the mere thought that anyone attending MIT might have been involved is insulting to you personally somehow is assinine. You really need to calm down.

No, you didn't just wonder, you implied a connection.  Considering the only reason the university was mentioned was because their LEO was killed, and the initial incident occurred on the campus border, which you could have easily checked, it was tin foil hattery, and implied something about a group of people.

Is it possible that there are radical people that go there, sure, but quite literally everyone I know there doubts that such a person would be not be found out extremely quickly--its a small community, and one that is quite tight, amd actually quite homogeneous in terms of how to solve problems in the world, so by "wondering", you do in fact impugn a group by theoretical association.

I am calm.  


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: birdman on April 19, 2013, 10:37:50 AM
From
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/19/us-usa-explosions-boston-shooting-idUSBRE93I0GQ20130419
Quote
The blasts killed three people and wounded 176 in the worst attack on U.S. soil since the suicide hijacking attacks of September 11, 2001.

Wouldn't ft. Hood be?  Oh yeah, that was "workplace violence"


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Balog on April 19, 2013, 10:48:24 AM
 :facepalm:

I have no desire to argue with you over this silliness. Since you've chosen to bring it up here I'll post my actual comment and let folks make their own determination.

Quote
Cop shot at the MIT campus. Given the randomness of the marathon bombing and the frat boy appearance of the suspects, I wonder if there's a connection.

And, I must note, there was in fact a connection.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: birdman on April 19, 2013, 11:11:56 AM
:facepalm:

I have no desire to argue with you over this silliness. Since you've chosen to bring it up here I'll post my actual comment and let folks make their own determination.

And, I must note, there was in fact a connection.

What was the connection?  They shot the LEO?  That was THE ONLY connection.
You implied by your frat boy comment that they were somehow involved with the college (ie frat boy STUDENTS).  Which they weren't.

If you had left off the latter, you would have been just as correct, and I wouldn't have been bothered by it, as you wouldn't have been implying anything, merely wondering about a fact.  As for frat boy look...just what do you think frat boys look like?  Your wondering  was based on the thought process of frat boy look equals student, cop at school shot, suspects could be students AT THAT SCHOOL.  THAT was the hypothesis that you were implying, which is now shown as totally incorrect, and had been based entirely on some preconceived notion that students at that school would be capable of this.  Lets say they were dressed like Buddhist monks, and then a LEO was shot nearby to an monetary, would you say the same?  Maybe, but wouldn't that impugn Buddhist monks as capable of this atrocity?

And if you have no desire to argue over it, then why are you arguing over it.



Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 19, 2013, 11:30:15 AM
Calm down.  :angel:

I think that he was wondering if the MIT shooting was related to the Marathon bombing  ;)

(it was breaking news at the time posted)


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Gewehr98 on April 19, 2013, 11:38:16 AM
Tallpine, that was the way I read it too, but one should never waste an opportunity to threaten leaving a forum. 

(More often than not, the best value for the forum administrator entertainment dollar)  ;)


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Pharmacology on April 19, 2013, 11:40:11 AM
Has anyone seen the video of their uncle being interviewed? 
Seems like a good guy, and he has no idea why it happened?

What was the connection?  They shot the LEO?  That was THE ONLY connection.
You implied by your frat boy comment that they were somehow involved with the college (ie frat boy STUDENTS).  Which they weren't.

If you had left off the latter, you would have been just as correct, and I wouldn't have been bothered by it, as you wouldn't have been implying anything, merely wondering about a fact.  As for frat boy look...just what do you think frat boys look like?  Your wondering  was based on the thought process of frat boy look equals student, cop at school shot, suspects could be students AT THAT SCHOOL.  THAT was the hypothesis that you were implying, which is now shown as totally incorrect, and had been based entirely on some preconceived notion that students at that school would be capable of this.  Lets say they were dressed like Buddhist monks, and then a LEO was shot nearby to an monetary, would you say the same?  Maybe, but wouldn't that impugn Buddhist monks as capable of this atrocity?
And if you have no desire to argue over it, then why are you arguing over it.

You're being a drama queen.  
Whether or not your precious alma  mater  was or was not involved is beyond irrelevant in this tragedy.  I'm embarrassed that you're creating such a stink over it.  Get over yourself.






Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Balog on April 19, 2013, 11:45:58 AM
And if you have no desire to argue over it, then why are you arguing over it.

You chose to take something I'd put on facebook and make mischaracterizations about it on here. So I posted the original to correct your nonsense. I'm not going to debate whether or not it was a slight to the honor of the august institution that you came from or not. And I'm actually hoping you don't rage-quit APS as you "threatened" to, you have a lot of good and valuable information. But you really need to get over yourself. And that's the last I'll say about all that.

As for the actual story of the day, anyone have info on possible links these two have to radical groups? Seems like a news blackout the last few hours.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Gewehr98 on April 19, 2013, 11:46:27 AM
These house-to-house searches currently underway...

Are they done with a warrant in place, Executive Order, what?

Can a citizen tell these military wannabees "No, now get off my lawn/roof"?

http://www.wpxi.com/videos/news/social-media-captures-house-to-house-searches-near/vyWzJ/


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: freakazoid on April 19, 2013, 11:47:29 AM
Your wondering  was based on the thought process of frat boy look equals student, cop at school shot, suspects could be students AT THAT SCHOOL.  THAT was the hypothesis that you were implying, which is now shown as totally incorrect, and had been based entirely on some preconceived notion that students at that school would be capable of this.

What makes students at MIT so special that prevents the possibility that a student there from doing something horrific? ???

Any word on why they were at MIT?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Pharmacology on April 19, 2013, 11:48:59 AM
These house-to-house searches currently underway...
Are they done with a warrant in place, Executive Order, what?
Can a citizen tell these military wannabees "No, now get off my lawn/roof"?
http://www.wpxi.com/videos/news/social-media-captures-house-to-house-searches-near/vyWzJ/

I was wondering about that too. Social media is coming alive with pictures of cops in multicam posted up in backyards and hopping fences.

Scary stuff.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Balog on April 19, 2013, 11:49:42 AM
These house-to-house searches currently underway...

Are they done with a warrant in place, Executive Order, what?

Can a citizen tell these military wannabees "No, now get off my lawn/roof"?

http://www.wpxi.com/videos/news/social-media-captures-house-to-house-searches-near/vyWzJ/

I've seen at least one person state that the cops asked if they wanted the house searched, and she was not forced. Don't know if that applies to all individual cops/units, and if refusal to search is erhmagerd SUSPICIOUSeleventyone and they'd gen up exigent circumstances if you tried.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: freakazoid on April 19, 2013, 12:00:16 PM
When they were showing clips of the searches they showed some people decked out in gear riding on what looked like an APC with an M240 mounted on top.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 19, 2013, 12:01:51 PM
When they were showing clips of the searches they showed some people decked out in gear riding on what looked like an APC with an M240 mounted on top.

If it's like LA, they will start machine-gunning anyone wearing a baseball cap  ;/


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: birdman on April 19, 2013, 12:04:00 PM
Whatever.

Get over myself?  I took offense to something you said, and a mischaracterization, and that makes me a drama queen?  

This isn't a "my alma mater is awesome" this is a "you are implying something about a group of people, and implying membership in that group of bad people, and since I know that group well, and am a me,bet of that group, you are thus implying something about me"...funny, that SEEMS like a reason to be bothered by something.

If you had said "seems like a connection to mid-30's Caucasian guys from Menomonee falls" (thereby taking something an individual did and implying something about a group) I would have been equally bothered.

What makes students at MIT so special that prevents the possibility that a student there from doing something horrific? ???

Any word on why they were at MIT?

1. They WEREN'T AT MIT, they were NEAR MIT...THIS is the reason the speculative bullshit amd "frat boy" "connection" hypothesizing is bad.
2. What makes it special?  Um, a small community that focuses on technological solutions to problems, composed of extremely bright people with, to almost a near 100% majority doesn't stand for radicalization...yeah, total terrorist cadre there.  

Is it possible, sure, but WE ALL take offense when someone implies a connection between mass shooters and OUR community (eg the "NRA certificate" chatter about mom Lanza, etc), and yet I can't take offense when someone implies a similar community connection to really bad actors based purely on circumstantial (geography, and a "frat boy" look)?

Seriously people, its not that crazy to want to defend a community of people you share something with, we do it constantly, we police what people imply about that community's "connection" to things and attempt to defend it, and we all get bothered when someone implies a connection, and now you are ostracizing me, or calling me a drama queen for doing the exact same thing?  Hypocrisy much?

We all "know" certain communities or groups, and if we are part of that group, take false implications as impugning that group.  All I was saying was that I took offense to it, as it was based on a FLAWED hypothesis...(frat boy look...and even if it was, do you know what the frat boy look percentage at MIT is?) that implied really bad folks were members of MY community.

Sheesh.

As for "drama queen", well, I didn't call names, nor attack individuals, only viewpoints.  


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: RocketMan on April 19, 2013, 12:08:29 PM
Good grief.  Getting a tad spun up, we are.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 19, 2013, 12:10:59 PM
What makes students at MIT so special that prevents the possibility that a student there from doing something horrific? ???

Any word on why they were at MIT?

Probably just an easy area to blend in.  I honestly don't think they had much of an E&E plan, and things have gone square sideways.  I'm thinking the younger brother either slipped the cordon in the post-shoot out chaos, or he is in someone's house holding them at gun point.


UN TWIST THE PANTIES GIRLS.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Balog on April 19, 2013, 12:12:43 PM
It's surprising a 19 y/o managed to both escape the cops during the shootout, and evade capture for so long with this many folks hunting for him.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Ben on April 19, 2013, 12:14:09 PM
These house-to-house searches currently underway...

Are they done with a warrant in place, Executive Order, what?

Can a citizen tell these military wannabees "No, now get off my lawn/roof"?

http://www.wpxi.com/videos/news/social-media-captures-house-to-house-searches-near/vyWzJ/

I was also wondering about that. Given that someone said "no", could LE justify a search anyway, stating they thought the homeowner might have been under duress (suspect hiding in their house)?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: RocketMan on April 19, 2013, 12:15:04 PM
Agreed.  Makes me wonder if he slipped out of the area some how.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 19, 2013, 12:18:27 PM
I was also wondering about that. Given that someone said "no", could LE justify a search anyway, stating they thought the homeowner might have been under duress (suspect hiding in their house)?

lulz.

3rd amendment suspended in Boston.  BOSTON.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 19, 2013, 12:19:58 PM
It's surprising a 19 y/o managed to both escape the cops during the shootout, and evade capture for so long with this many folks hunting for him.

Immediately after the shoot out, I imagine there was a huge focus on the site itself.  Chaos and fog of war, ied devices, shooting, news people coming in on the site, yeah.....Chaos.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 19, 2013, 12:20:55 PM
Agreed.  Makes me wonder if he slipped out of the area some how.

Given what I'm sure the sentiment in Boston must be about the bombers, maybe they are already "hiding" in somebody's compost pile  >:D   =D

No one yet thought of posting a reward: dead or alive  ???


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: fistful on April 19, 2013, 12:22:14 PM
4th amendment, actually.

I just heard that the 2 brothers were U Mass students. I guess that means U Mass is a madras, full of terrorists. MIT, of course, is a seminary, full of saints who ride unicorns.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 19, 2013, 12:23:14 PM
4th amendment, actually.

I just heard that the 2 brothers were U Mass students. I guess that means U Mass is a madras, full of terrorists.

Zing!


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: zxcvbob on April 19, 2013, 12:27:14 PM
I thought the 'Bazinga' was implied.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: zxcvbob on April 19, 2013, 12:31:06 PM
I was also wondering about that. Given that someone said "no", could LE justify a search anyway, stating they thought the homeowner might have been under duress (suspect hiding in their house)?

I think they get some slack here; "hot pursuit", or something.  But if they find your bag of weed while they are looking around, would that be admissible?  That might hinge on whether you invited them in or protested.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Ron on April 19, 2013, 12:34:45 PM
4th amendment, actually.

I just heard that the 2 brothers were U Mass students. I guess that means U Mass is a madras, full of terrorists. MIT, of course, is a seminary, full of saints who ride unicorns.

If birdman leaves the forums it's your fault.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Balog on April 19, 2013, 12:35:48 PM
Immediately after the shoot out, I imagine there was a huge focus on the site itself.  Chaos and fog of war, ied devices, shooting, news people coming in on the site, yeah.....Chaos.

Yeah, I get that. But why wasn't he actively pursued from the scene of the shootout? Cops not have enough mobile assets on site to follow him? You'd think as small as Boston is and as large as the police force assembled there (which includes Nat Guard and DHS I believe) is, he wouldn't have been able to ditch all pursuit and go to ground.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: birdman on April 19, 2013, 12:37:54 PM
4th amendment, actually.

I just heard that the 2 brothers were U Mass students. I guess that means U Mass is a madras, full of terrorists. MIT, of course, is a seminary, full of saints who ride unicorns.

Well, yeah.  Have you SEEN UMass Dartmouth?  A madras would likely be an improvement.

Btw, the unicorns are in the bldg 5 3rd floor bio-lab, but riding them is prohibited since the unfortunate accident in 2005.

As for saints, well...we did found the American libertarian party :)


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 19, 2013, 12:38:10 PM
4th amendment, actually.

I just heard that the 2 brothers were U Mass students. I guess that means U Mass is a madras, full of terrorists. MIT, of course, is a seminary, full of saints who ride unicorns.

Meh.  House-to-house across an entire metro area pretty much implies occupation.  Occupation involves quartering troops in unwanted places, in private property.  3rd is arguably applicable.  

And I just like the absurdity of the notion of a violation of the 3rd... in Boston. >:D


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Azrael256 on April 19, 2013, 12:50:04 PM
Well, if you want my opinion (and who doesn't?)...

It's chilly in Boston, so he's approaching room temperature.  He killed himself hours ago.  I base this on my own psychic premonition.  And the fact that it seems to happen that way in all of the manhunt situations that I selectively remembered after coming up with that.

But seriously. That's my guess.  He's been dead since before lunch.

Btw, I think you mean "Madrassa.". Madras is a fabric.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Balog on April 19, 2013, 12:51:18 PM
Possible. But most folks bent on suicide don't do such an effective job fighting the cops and making a getaway.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: birdman on April 19, 2013, 12:52:04 PM
Meh.  House-to-house across an entire metro area pretty much implies occupation.  Occupation involves quartering troops in unwanted places, in private property.  3rd is arguably applicable.  

And I just like the absurdity of the notion of a violation of the 3rd... in Boston. >:D

That happened before, didn't it?  I mean there had to be a reason we have the 3rd amendment, right?  >:D


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: SADShooter on April 19, 2013, 12:56:04 PM
Possible. But most folks bent on suicide don't do such an effective job fighting the cops and making a getaway.

Remember, his bro is already going full rabbit in paradise. We don't know the impact of that, or the "Oh, ****!" influence of the last several days. If he hasn't sought out his heroic final stand yet, Azrael256 may have it.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 19, 2013, 12:57:16 PM
Interesting and highly possible hypothesis l hasn't considered yet.....


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Azrael256 on April 19, 2013, 01:01:45 PM
It actually occurred to me because he hasn't been found yet despite the manhunt.  The whole town is after him.  Either hide exceptionally well, or be something other than what they're looking for.  So either turn into a squirrel and scurry off, or be a corpse.

Or he found an empty unlocked house and hid in the attic.  Or he slipped away.  Just a feeling says suicide.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: French G. on April 19, 2013, 01:04:44 PM
I know when I was listening to the feed pre-dawn they were waiting until daylight to go house to house to give them the ability to see. Maybe he slipped it then? Lots of request for EOD canine units too.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on April 19, 2013, 01:10:50 PM
if you can stay put in a good hide its real hard for them to find you.  its going mobile that gets you nabbed


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on April 19, 2013, 01:18:15 PM
I didn't think he had already suicided, but I also am thinking there is a possibilty that the little brother has had a major "oh *expletive deleted*it! What have I gotten myself into?" and that's why we havn't heard a peep.

From what I gather, they came to the US when they were early teen/preteen, so I'm thinking they probably had a pretty good grounding in their culture and be young enough to still idealize even the radical thoughts they'd been exposed too. So, they've got their "ideal" past along with a solid dose of the current generation of American entitelment and, viola! crazy nutterbutters with a cause.

I like the one Uncle. I have a feeling if he could get his hands on those two boys, there would be a major beatdown. He is not happy.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 19, 2013, 01:19:42 PM
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/19/17823265-200-rounds-details-of-firefight-emerge-as-manhunt-focuses-on-one-suspect?lite

Reports indicate over 200 rounds were exchanged, and at least 7 IED' s have been found!


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Ben on April 19, 2013, 02:11:39 PM
I'm voting against suicide for now. It's generally our domestic crazies that go down that road. Seems to me, if he has adopted his homeland philosophy, he would be more inclined to go down fighting, or of he does suicide, do so in a way that takes others with him.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 19, 2013, 02:18:46 PM
Reports are that the door to door hunt is complete and he's considered "escaped"....

So I'm going with suicide and lying in a dark place somewhere....or he snuck out of the cordon in the night. 


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fly320s on April 19, 2013, 02:38:16 PM
I bet he is hidden with allies or escaped with help.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Phyphor on April 19, 2013, 02:42:26 PM
Wonderful.  Think there's more of a cell here or just those 2 idiots?

And did anyone else see where his dad said "If he dies too, all hell will break loose!" ?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Hawkmoon on April 19, 2013, 02:43:41 PM
These house-to-house searches currently underway...

Are they done with a warrant in place, Executive Order, what?

IANAL, but I think in situations such as this the police can search without a warrant on the basis of "exigent circumstances." As long as they confine their search to looking for a teen-age bomber, and ignore the roach in the ashtray, I don't think there will be any repercussions.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Gewehr98 on April 19, 2013, 02:46:23 PM
Yup.

I just read the same thing here.  Not a lot of defenses against that one, are there?

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2013/04/boston_bomber_manhunt_is_the_watertown_door_to_door_search_by_police_for.html


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Azrael256 on April 19, 2013, 03:01:58 PM
Well, I may have been wrong.  CNN (I know, but I can't change the channel here) says there has been gunfire.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: SADShooter on April 19, 2013, 03:04:52 PM
Well, I may have been wrong.  CNN (I know, but I can't change the channel here) says there has been gunfire.

FOX reporting same. Local reporter claiming suspect is down, per State Police.

ETA: hiding in a covered boat in a yard.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: lupinus on April 19, 2013, 03:13:16 PM
Report is now shots fired with a suspect down.

No clarification if he;s just injured or dead, and no confirmation it is the guy they're looking for.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Stand_watie on April 19, 2013, 03:20:06 PM
I wonder if he was watching news coverage on a cellphone and the  "we're moving out" announcement prompted him to crawl out of hidey hole.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: lupinus on April 19, 2013, 03:29:57 PM
Reporting now that he is down but alive. They have him surrounded but haven't moved in, worried about a vest.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 19, 2013, 04:01:39 PM
*expletive deleted*it just got real.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on April 19, 2013, 04:05:37 PM
Ok, iM in a bus full of dogs and we can't find a radio station covering it.

Be more Descriptive!!


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: lupinus on April 19, 2013, 04:11:04 PM
Ok, iM in a bus full of dogs and we can't find a radio station covering it.

Be more Descriptive!!
Report now if that the injuries appear to be from last night, no more detail than that or if he was further injured in the exhange of gun fire when they found him.

Still waiting to move in on him, bomb squad is on the way.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 19, 2013, 04:18:26 PM
Reddit users are posting edited scanner feeds

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1cpiyo/live_boston_update_thread_part_8/


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: birdman on April 19, 2013, 04:31:47 PM
Ok, iM in a bus full of dogs and we can't find a radio station covering it.

Be more Descriptive!!

Dude is hiding in a boat under a boat cover in someone's backyard.
He's injured (woman who lives there noticed blood on her shed or something and called the cops)
They sent in robot to check it out.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Phyphor on April 19, 2013, 04:43:15 PM
After launching flashbangs in.

HRT is the only tac team allowed to actually board the boat, all others ordered to stay back, EOD has been called in.  "Still a hot scene. "

Suspect is in custody, calling for a medic


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Ron on April 19, 2013, 04:43:57 PM
suspect in custody

heh, heh, ya beat me by seconds


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 19, 2013, 04:46:23 PM
Sounds like he is alive but wounded.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: lupinus on April 19, 2013, 04:48:20 PM
Sounds like he is alive but wounded.

Report is that he was wounded in last nights encounter. On his way to the hospital now.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Scout26 on April 19, 2013, 04:54:45 PM
lulz.

3rd amendment suspended in Boston.  BOSTON.

Unless they are sampling the vittles in the pot on the stove and sleeping in Goldilocks bed, it's the 4th they are violating, not the 3rd.

I know you got you law degree from the Sh!thouse extension of Guardhouse University, but please stop waving it in our faces.   ;/


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: birdman on April 19, 2013, 04:58:07 PM
So riddle me this, why is this terrorism, but fort hood wasn't?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: dogmush on April 19, 2013, 05:01:05 PM
Because when it was labeled terrorism the labeler thought a white guy did it.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AJ Dual on April 19, 2013, 05:06:53 PM
Because when it was labeled terrorism the labeler thought a white guy did it.

This.  =|


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: BryanP on April 19, 2013, 05:08:34 PM
And he's in custody.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Gewehr98 on April 19, 2013, 05:15:49 PM
Question asked in front of the idiot tube just now...

Will this be a Federal prosecution case, or will the state of Massachusetts have a swing at it?

I said Federal, because of the FBI's involvement, but I could be wrong.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: geronimotwo on April 19, 2013, 05:24:48 PM
if no state lines have been crossed, what makes this different than a standard murder case that would make it federal?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: zxcvbob on April 19, 2013, 05:28:06 PM
He would get life without the possibility of parole in MA, for 3 or 4 counts of murder.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: birdman on April 19, 2013, 05:30:16 PM
if no state lines have been crossed, what makes this different than a standard murder case that would make it federal?

Terrorism as a crime.  Instant federal. 

Because when it was labeled terrorism the labeler thought a white guy did it.
And he's in custody.

So is Hassan.  Both are US citizens, both committed acts of terrorism.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Phyphor on April 19, 2013, 05:30:31 PM
Doesn't terrorism fall under the feds jurisdiction?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: fistful on April 19, 2013, 05:30:45 PM
That is awesome that they took him alive. We need to know where his other bombs are, who he's working with. Get the waterboard ready!


Meh.  House-to-house across an entire metro area pretty much implies occupation.  Occupation involves quartering troops in unwanted places, in private property.  3rd is arguably applicable.  


No, not even arguably.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 19, 2013, 05:31:24 PM
if no state lines have been crossed, what makes this different than a standard murder case that would make it federal?

My understanding is that something about the use of explosives ups the ante to federal levels.  And labeling it terrorism.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Gewehr98 on April 19, 2013, 05:31:45 PM
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say it wasn't Sunil Tripathi.   [tinfoil]


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 19, 2013, 05:39:20 PM
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say it wasn't Sunil Tripathi.   [tinfoil]
AZ will be along shortly to bring him up again.



I gotta say, they are doing some hardcore back patting.  Yes, the popo did a good job.  But we had an incident that brought attention to them last night.  And an alert citizen who spotted the second suspect today.  THE POLICE AND THE FBI DID NOT FIND THESE TWO.  They brought it to a conclusion, yes.  But they would have never found them but for the incident with the MIT cop, and then home owner today.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: CNYCacher on April 19, 2013, 05:48:43 PM
Excerpt from the live coverage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avaSdC0QOUM


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: RocketMan on April 19, 2013, 06:11:10 PM
Btw, I think you mean "Madrassa.". Madras is a fabric.

Madras is also a town in Oregon.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: lupinus on April 19, 2013, 06:14:06 PM
Didn't take long  :facepalm:

Lindsey Graham: Obama Should Hold Bombing Suspect as ‘Enemy Combatant’ (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/19/lindsey-graham-obama-should-hold-bombing-suspect-as-enemy-combatant/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=story&utm_campaign=Share+Buttons)


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: sumpnz on April 19, 2013, 06:30:07 PM
Because when it was labeled terrorism the labeler thought a white guy did it.

Well, technically he is Caucasian.

As in from the Caucasus region.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 19, 2013, 06:31:00 PM
I'm glad they caught this Joker  ;)


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: SADShooter on April 19, 2013, 06:47:19 PM
Madras is also a town in Oregon.

And a delicious highball.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: French G. on April 19, 2013, 07:06:01 PM
Pretty ill already with all the facebook right wing ranting about martial law and trampled rights. Yes, the town was locked down, yes house searches were made. I don't see the reports of pet dogs getting shot, citizens curb stomped or herded to secret camps. Yes the para-military show was in full swing today. But have you seen how Russians fight Chechens? You got doods unknown running around with proven workable bombs and shooting first it is a little out of the realm of our libertarian peace officer/B. Fife ideal. Sure I'd love to shoot a terrorist, but if you live there what are you going to do? Patrol your yard with your AR-15 and shiny p-mags? I'm sure the cops will instantly recognize you as the great samaritan from the land of internet and let you carry on. Or, considering they were concerned with offing plainclothes cops, they might just react really negatively to an unknown with a gun. So, I'm guessing you would play the lockdown game unless random Chechen tried to take over your house.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: BobR on April 19, 2013, 07:08:02 PM
Quote
But have you seen how Russians fight Chechens?

Hell, Putin is liable to raze the town they were originally from just because of the negative light it has shone on the motherland!!!


bob


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: zxcvbob on April 19, 2013, 07:23:43 PM
Pretty ill already with all the facebook right wing ranting about martial law and trampled rights. Yes, the town was locked down, yes house searches were made. I don't see the reports of pet dogs getting shot, citizens curb stomped or herded to secret camps. Yes the para-military show was in full swing today. But have you seen how Russians fight Chechens? You got doods unknown running around with proven workable bombs and shooting first it is a little out of the realm of our libertarian peace officer/B. Fife ideal. Sure I'd love to shoot a terrorist, but if you live there what are you going to do? Patrol your yard with your AR-15 and shiny p-mags? I'm sure the cops will instantly recognize you as the great samaritan from the land of internet and let you carry on. Or, considering they were concerned with offing plainclothes cops, they might just react really negatively to an unknown with a gun. So, I'm guessing you would play the lockdown game unless random Chechen tried to take over your house.

I would hide indoors (armed) whether they told me to or not.  =|  Nobody's getting inside (cop or Chechian) without a major battle, but it's the dogs they have to worry about more than me. 

I would ask them for a warrant if they wanna come in the house, but would not interfere under the circumstances when they barged in without one.  If I don't at least ask for a warrant, it's like inviting a vampire in.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Gewehr98 on April 19, 2013, 07:43:51 PM
As would I.

I know they were looking for the remaining bomber, but one still must ask if the end ALWAYS justifies the means. The Constitution and all that...


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Boomhauer on April 19, 2013, 09:03:10 PM
I highly doubt they were kicking down doors in the search like certain folk imagine so. Or violating the 3rd amendment.  :rofl: Seriously the tinfoil mad hatters are getting on my nerves about as much as the *expletive deleted* hippies.

More likely like this, as posted by a LEO on another forum

Quote
I've done door to door searches before (though not like this), and you end up with one of the following at any given house:

1. No one answers, no signs of forced entry. You check the outside of the house for the BG or signs of activity, move on.

2. No one answers, signs of forced entry or a door open. You go in and clear the house. Why? Because you are looking for a dangerous person, they could have a hostage inside.

3. Someone home, they answer the door. You talk to them. If you find it plausible that they could be harboring the BG, you request permission to come in and look. If they refuse, you have to decide if you have PC to get a warrant, or the exigent circumstances to bypass one.

Absolutely horrible, I know, right?



Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AJ Dual on April 19, 2013, 09:52:38 PM
I can imagine some futuristic Libertarian solution where all the grandma's and school kids had hawg-legs strapped on every day, and just had shot the bombers, and 10mm is a "ladies caliber", like some damn L. Neil Smith novel. And the bomber bros. would have been Swiss Cheese last night.

That said, this crap plays out in the world we have, not the one we want.

From a fair-minded realistic perspective, can anyone even begin to imagine the absolute *expletive deleted*it-storm and blame that would ensue if the guy had been holding some family hostage in suburban Boston for days, or had shot them, or blown them up?  :P



Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Phyphor on April 19, 2013, 10:58:29 PM
I highly doubt they were kicking down doors in the search like certain folk imagine so. Or violating the 3rd amendment.  :rofl: Seriously the tinfoil mad hatters are getting on my nerves about as much as the *expletive deleted* hippies.

They weren't.  The people who went through it posted on twitter that they asked permission.



Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Hawkmoon on April 20, 2013, 05:56:50 AM
That is awesome that they took him alive. We need to know where his other bombs are, who he's working with. Get the waterboard ready!

They are.

Reports from Friday night were that interrogation would be handled by "Obama's" (not "the Federal") high level interrogation team, and that the circumstances of the case allow them to interrogate him without  reading him a Miranda warning. I'll have to dredge up the Miranda decision and re-read it ... I don't recall anything in the decision that said warnings must be given except when the President doesn't want to do so.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: MillCreek on April 20, 2013, 06:03:16 AM
^^^ Thank the Patriot Act and subsequent modifications and Executive interpretations for the modification of Miranda.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: birdman on April 20, 2013, 06:31:04 AM
^^^ Thank the Patriot Act and subsequent modifications and Executive interpretations for the modification of Miranda.
Not patriot act, military commissions act.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: fistful on April 20, 2013, 07:34:08 AM
In light of recent developments, I rescind my enthusiasm for the water board, for this particular individual.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fly320s on April 20, 2013, 08:19:49 AM
Is this guy a US citizen?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: SADShooter on April 20, 2013, 08:21:27 AM
Yes. Naturalized 9/11/12.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 20, 2013, 12:32:19 PM
Interesting article by a young lady who knew the Tsarnaeva family pretty well:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/04/20/know-boston-bombers/



Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: birdman on April 20, 2013, 02:11:09 PM
From Obama's statement after the apprehension:
Quote
That's why we have courts. And that's why we take care not to rush to judgment -- not about the motivations of these individuals; certainly not about entire groups of people.

Translation:  yeah, it was two Muslim guys..

"That's why we have courts"
Yeah, and "high value detainee interrogation teams" without a lawyer present.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: never_retreat on April 20, 2013, 02:57:16 PM
So all is good, they caught him. Only took 4 days.
How long do you think this guy would have lasted in a state where MANY more people where armed? (insert state with heavily armed populace)
I know if I saw this guy climb into my boat in my back yard I would ave shot him first then called the popo to pick up the remains.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: cambeul41 on April 20, 2013, 04:06:59 PM
Quote
How long do you think this guy would have lasted in a state where MANY more people where armed?

If he was not seen, the arms in the hands of the public — what matter they?

Quote
I know if I saw this guy climb into my boat in my back yard I would ave shot him first then called the popo to pick up the remains.

Best not to do so unless in fear of imminent . . . etc.

Oh, well. All is well that ends well.  =D


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 20, 2013, 04:53:12 PM
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s480x480/64102_635681586461295_413751470_n.png)


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on April 20, 2013, 04:58:27 PM
nice!!!



Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: birdman on April 20, 2013, 05:01:06 PM
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s480x480/64102_635681586461295_413751470_n.png)

I don't know if this is to mean:
1. It wasn't an example of fascist police state because milk
2. We do fascist police state nicer than others
3. Stop whiny about police state and stay in your home, because, terrorist.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: lupinus on April 20, 2013, 05:27:05 PM
I don't know if this is to mean:
1. It wasn't an example of fascist police state because milk
2. We do fascist police state nicer than others
3. Stop whiny about police state and stay in your home, because, terrorist.
Or is it the look when they asked him to take the poopy diaper bag to the garbage since they couldn't leave the house to do it?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: RoadKingLarry on April 20, 2013, 05:52:11 PM
I don't know if this is to mean:
1. It wasn't an example of fascist police state because milk
2. We do fascist police state nicer than others
3. Stop whiny about police state and stay in your home, because, terrorist.

OOhhh OOhhh, pick me, pick me...


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Gewehr98 on April 20, 2013, 05:53:47 PM
Tactical Moo Juice.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 20, 2013, 06:12:12 PM
I don't know if this is to mean:
1. It wasn't an example of fascist police state because milk
2. We do fascist police state nicer than others
3. Stop whiny about police state and stay in your home, because, terrorist.

4.) I'm poking fun at everyone


I'd like to hear how anyone else on here, if they were in charge, would handle a bomber on the loose after such an attack, keeping in mind that he had been involved in a chase which involved him throwing IEDs out a window of a vehicle.


I don't think the lockdown was unreasonable.

They were asking permission to search the homes. Does anyone have any evidence of someone saying no, and the issue being forced?




Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 20, 2013, 06:22:56 PM
Additionally, there are reports of folks being out and about during the lockdown. No reports of anyone being detained or beaten up for it. The whole lockdown seems to have been voluntary.

I'm just failing to see where the outrage is coming from.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: fistful on April 20, 2013, 06:29:33 PM
I know if I saw this guy climb into my boat in my back yard I would ave shot him first then called the popo to pick up the remains.


Why?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Gewehr98 on April 20, 2013, 06:31:13 PM
Free fire zone?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Phyphor on April 20, 2013, 06:42:10 PM
Additionally, there are reports of folks being out and about during the lockdown. No reports of anyone being detained or beaten up for it. The whole lockdown seems to have been voluntary.

I'm just failing to see where the outrage is coming from.

This.

They did WAAAAY worse during both the Dorner hunt and the Katrina situation.  Sure, this looked bad but it could have gone far, far worse.



Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Harold Tuttle on April 20, 2013, 07:31:48 PM
The police chief, Edward Deveau, describes how cops nearly apprehended the older suspect, and were placing handcuffs on him in the middle of the street Thursday night, when the younger suspect came at officers in a carjacked SUV. The cops were able "to dive out of the way," and the younger suspect then continued to drive directly over his brother and dragging him through the street. That's how the older suspect died, according to the police chief.

The younger suspect eventually dumped the SUV and ran into the darkness of the night, according to the police chief. It took nearly 18 hours and massive manhunt to find the younger suspect. He gave himself up after a 20-minute negotiation with the FBI, he said, but not before the suspect fired more rounds at the authorities.



http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/amazing-new-details-chase-boston-bombers_718135.html


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: roo_ster on April 20, 2013, 09:53:10 PM
I don't know if this is to mean:
1. It wasn't an example of fascist police state because milk
2. We do fascist police state nicer than others
3. Stop whiny about police state and stay in your home, because, terrorist.

Number two.  All of the mid-20th century fascist states exercised their fascism differently.  Why would American fascism clone the German or Italian or Spanish or <insert_fascist_state>?

Thing is, we already have an example of how it would manifest in Woodrow Wilson's administration.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: BobR on April 20, 2013, 11:30:48 PM
The police chief, Edward Deveau, describes how cops nearly apprehended the older suspect, and were placing handcuffs on him in the middle of the street Thursday night, when the younger suspect came at officers in a carjacked SUV. The cops were able "to dive out of the way," and the younger suspect then continued to drive directly over his brother and dragging him through the street. That's how the older suspect died, according to the police chief.


http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/amazing-new-details-chase-boston-bombers_718135.html

Doesn't quite jibe with the multiple penetrating wounds, unless, was he perforated before the brother ran over him. Or they perforated him after he was run over.

http://nation.time.com/2013/04/20/doctor-dead-bomb-suspect-had-wounds-head-to-toe/

bob


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 21, 2013, 03:17:28 AM
The two real questions are of course was the lockdown really 'voluntary', and did police force their way into homes?

If the answers and yes and no, then this whole thing goes to show how most people would react to martial law.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: SteveS on April 21, 2013, 04:47:38 AM
They are.

Reports from Friday night were that interrogation would be handled by "Obama's" (not "the Federal") high level interrogation team, and that the circumstances of the case allow them to interrogate him without  reading him a Miranda warning. I'll have to dredge up the Miranda decision and re-read it ... I don't recall anything in the decision that said warnings must be given except when the President doesn't want to do so.

It depends on what they want to do with the information and how long they interrogate him.  Miranda doesn't prevent police from interrogating people, rather it prevents statements obtained this way from being introduced in court.  Police could still use information in their investigation and could still use physical evidence that was obtained.  There is also a public safety exception.  New York v. Quarles, 467 U.S. 649 (1984).

If it turns out that there is a lot of evidence against Tsarnaev, then they might not need his statements to convict him. 


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Boomhauer on April 21, 2013, 04:51:56 AM
It depends on what they want to do with the information and how long they interrogate him.  Miranda doesn't prevent police from interrogating people, rather it prevents statements obtained this way from being introduced in court.  Police could still use information in their investigation and could still use physical evidence that was obtained.  There is also a public safety exception.  New York v. Quarles, 467 U.S. 649 (1984).

If it turns out that there is a lot of evidence against Tsarnaev, then they might not need his statements to convict him. 

Thank god somebody understands what Miranda rights actually mean.

Not reading Miranda rights is actually common. *Gasp* I know. Unfortunately the vast majority of the public only has a view of Miranda as given by TV/movies and has little to no idea of how it works.



Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Stand_watie on April 21, 2013, 05:27:43 AM
It depends on what they want to do with the information and how long they interrogate him.  Miranda doesn't prevent police from interrogating people, rather it prevents statements obtained this way from being introduced in court.  Police could still use information in their investigation and could still use physical evidence that was obtained.  There is also a public safety exception.  New York v. Quarles, 467 U.S. 649 (1984).

If it turns out that there is a lot of evidence against Tsarnaev, then they might not need his statements to convict him. 

I thought the same thing...perhaps even more so that they have plenty of evidence to convict him without a confession and making me question the point of them publically announcing that they aren't mirandizing him. Not mirandizing him would perhaps help them get him to talk and help them catch bigger terroristic fish, but is the point of announcing it to say "Batches, we don't neeed no steeenking batches!"? Or perhaps are they just trying to flush said bigger terroristic fish into bolting from cover, which might be a good tactic.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 21, 2013, 06:43:03 AM
The two real questions are of course was the lockdown really 'voluntary', and did police force their way into homes?

If the answers and yes and no, then this whole thing goes to show how most people would react to martial law.

Given that the cops are chasing an armed fugitive through the neighborhood, staying inside might be a wise choice.  ;)

I don't care for all the military getup and vehicles just to chase one teenager, but it could have been handled worse.

At least they let the population know what was going on.  The local sheriff was chasing somebody through the woods and didn't inform residents (except for LE families  ;/ ).  The end result was that some folks let the guy in cold and wet, and he robbed them at gunpoint.  :facepalm:


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 21, 2013, 09:04:05 AM
Given that the cops are chasing an armed fugitive through the neighborhood, staying inside might be a wise choice.  ;)

I don't care for all the military getup and vehicles just to chase one teenager, but it could have been handled worse.

At least they let the population know what was going on.  The local sheriff was chasing somebody through the woods and didn't inform residents (except for LE families  ;/ ).  The end result was that some folks let the guy in cold and wet, and he robbed them at gunpoint.  :facepalm:

I don't dispute what common sense dictates.  My only dispute is with being ordered off the public street, but only if that is in fact what happened.  All reports seem to indicate that it was strongly suggested, but that they were no legal consequences for ignoring the order. 


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 21, 2013, 09:15:29 AM
I don't dispute what common sense dictates.  My only dispute is with being ordered off the public street, but only if that is in fact what happened.  All reports seem to indicate that it was strongly suggested, but that they were no legal consequences for ignoring the order. 

Well, given that there is probably no legal basis for such an order, that is good to hear.  =)

Y'all know that I'm not much of a fan of cops anymore.  I'm just trying to take a reasonable view until all the facts are known (if ever).

It does seem that there are some conflicting stories about what happened Thursday night/Friday morning when the older brother was killed.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Gewehr98 on April 21, 2013, 09:38:46 AM
Yeah, CNN now reports older brother was run over by younger, but still had explosives and triggering device attached to himself.

Would the po-po actually be in the process of cuffing and stuffing somebody if they were so explosively attired?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: BobR on April 21, 2013, 09:51:41 AM
Quote
Would the po-po actually be in the process of cuffing and stuffing somebody if they were so explosively attired?

About the only way I can see that is if the guy had been sufficiently perforated prior to the cuffing attempt. I don't think the po-po would have been taking any chances with him setting off the explosives.

bob 


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: RocketMan on April 21, 2013, 01:32:03 PM
Yeah, CNN now reports older brother was run over by younger, but still had explosives and triggering device attached to himself.

Would the po-po actually be in the process of cuffing and stuffing somebody if they were so explosively attired?

They might if they thought it worth the risk to secure him enough for the EOD guys to come in and do their thing.
It's also possible they didn't realize he was wearing asplodey undies just then.  Be a heck of a note to be the guy cuffing the baddie and noticing his odd fashion choices just as the cuffs click home.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Gewehr98 on April 21, 2013, 05:13:04 PM
Not lookin' too voluntary here (glad the video camera owner survived the incident):

http://youtu.be/2LrbsUVSVl8


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: zxcvbob on April 21, 2013, 05:23:42 PM
At least they didn't shoot the dog!


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Nick1911 on April 21, 2013, 05:35:56 PM
Not lookin' too voluntary here (glad the video camera owner survived the incident):

http://youtu.be/2LrbsUVSVl8

Wow.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 21, 2013, 05:41:35 PM
Not lookin' too voluntary here (glad the video camera owner survived the incident):

http://youtu.be/2LrbsUVSVl8

I feel so much safer now  ;/


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: 41magsnub on April 21, 2013, 05:45:08 PM
Not lookin' too voluntary here (glad the video camera owner survived the incident):

http://youtu.be/2LrbsUVSVl8

My BP did not need that.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on April 21, 2013, 05:53:09 PM
Not lookin' too voluntary here (glad the video camera owner survived the incident):

http://youtu.be/2LrbsUVSVl8

got a date and address on that one?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Gewehr98 on April 21, 2013, 06:00:00 PM
No.

Do you? 

(I got the video link from Oleg, sorry if that's not good enough for you...)


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on April 21, 2013, 06:05:40 PM
you can't see how location and date matter?  really?


heres another video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfOvHuojEB4


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Gewehr98 on April 21, 2013, 06:17:04 PM
Try not to be a total police sympathizer, C&SD, if only for a couple minutes, ok?  ;/

Look at the description of the video.  Sure, it could have been a drug bust from some time before the search for our two Chechen youths.   There's ALWAYS that chance.

WATERTOWN, MA -- On Friday, April 19, 2013, during a manhunt for a bombing suspect, police and federal agents spent the day storming people's homes and performing illegal searches. While it was unclear initially if the home searches were voluntary, it is now crystal clear that they were absolutely NOT voluntary. Police were filmed ripping people from their homes at gunpoint, marching the residents out with their hands raised in submission, and then storming the homes to perform their illegal searches.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: eyebrows on April 21, 2013, 06:20:45 PM
Did you notice they all get patted down too?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on April 21, 2013, 06:24:11 PM
Try not to be a total police sympathizer, C&SD, if only for a couple minutes, ok?  ;/

Look at the description of the video.  Sure, it could have been a drug bust from some time before the search for our two Chechen youths.   There's ALWAYS that chance.

WATERTOWN, MA -- On Friday, April 19, 2013, during a manhunt for a bombing suspect, police and federal agents spent the day storming people's homes and performing illegal searches. While it was unclear initially if the home searches were voluntary, it is now crystal clear that they were absolutely NOT voluntary. Police were filmed ripping people from their homes at gunpoint, marching the residents out with their hands raised in submission, and then storming the homes to perform their illegal searches.

oh i firmly believe it was watertown  but my earlier question stands
do you really not see how date and address are very relevant?
do you have to try to not see it?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: roo_ster on April 21, 2013, 06:37:23 PM
To be able to act like such complete newbs when it comes to hostile police interaction takes a great deal of training.  Obviously, all these seemingly innocuous subjects are highly trained terrorist cell members.  Glad our brave LEOs nabbed them before they could pull another nefarious removal of a mattress tag.



If you go to the poster's facebook page, this is not the only video/photo he has of citizens being herded about at gunpoint.



Here is one with a street sign, "Willow Park."
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/31551_518566451514194_754788827_n.jpg)
Poster asked, "Does that look voluntary to you?"

Willow Park (road/street), Watertown, Mass happens to exist.
http://goo.gl/maps/if2O0

Willow Park (road/street), Wellesley, Mass happens to exist.
http://goo.gl/maps/c7D0V




Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Gewehr98 on April 21, 2013, 06:39:59 PM
I'll take Watertown, MA on Friday, April 19th, 2013 for $100, Alex.

Tsarnaev's former roommates were from an apartment complex in New Bedford.

Quote
The two college-aged males and one college-aged female were detained by the FBI following a raid at the Hidden Brook apartment complex Friday evening. The complex entrance is at 42 West Hill Road, south of Interstate 195 and between Route 140 and Hathaway Road.

On Friday, Lt. Robert Richard told The Standard-Times that the students were believed to be fellow students or roommates of Tsarnaev, who is a registered student at UMass Dartmouth.

Are you saying this video is not what it purports?

Do you have info stating otherwise?

Or are you just being coy?

(And for the record, if this is some kind of tinfoil-helmet hoax propogated by somebody with an axe to grind, I'll be the first to admit my mistake upon discovering said hoax...)


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: roo_ster on April 21, 2013, 06:44:37 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBKCnJPFO5I
These folks woke up to police searching their garage.

"Does that look voluntary to you?"


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: BobR on April 21, 2013, 06:45:44 PM
Looks like they didn't even give the redhead time to get a pair of shoes on. Oh well, I can understand, it was for the public safety.  ;)

bob


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: roo_ster on April 21, 2013, 06:47:54 PM
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/422128_518466598190846_124656659_n.jpg)

Making Dad run outside holding his daughter.  Both in bare feet.  "Does that look voluntary to you?"


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: BobR on April 21, 2013, 06:48:08 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBKCnJPFO5I
These folks woke up to police searching their garage.

"Does that look voluntary to you?"

Memo to self, if the FBI is looking for me, hide in the big green trash can!

bob


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 21, 2013, 06:50:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBKCnJPFO5I
These folks woke up to police searching their garage.

"Does that look voluntary to you?"

Wall Street Journal.

Aren't they related to Alex Jones  ???

 =D


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: roo_ster on April 21, 2013, 06:55:20 PM
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/539758_612874308731443_1869231474_n.jpg)

Actually, just the House, IIRC. 

Hey, look!  Shiny! Terrorists!"



Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on April 21, 2013, 06:56:59 PM
i am actually incredulous
and apparently you are not alone
i take it you don't see how location and date matter?

i believe it was watertown and what it purports.

the date would still help





Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Gewehr98 on April 21, 2013, 06:57:41 PM
Be careful where you point a camera...

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/p480x480/431919_518478678189638_149563025_n.jpg)


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: roo_ster on April 21, 2013, 07:00:39 PM
Be careful where you point a camera...

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/p480x480/431919_518478678189638_149563025_n.jpg)

"Muzzle discipline" of a different sort.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on April 21, 2013, 07:02:24 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBKCnJPFO5I
These folks woke up to police searching their garage.

"Does that look voluntary to you?"

your words for the day


"plain sight"




Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Gewehr98 on April 21, 2013, 07:02:40 PM
And I asked you if you were being coy.

The best information I have, as does anybody else viewing these photos and videos, is April 19th, 2013 in Watertown, MA.

The info was supplied by those who posted the media.  Anything more than that, and I'll have to dig out the old crystal ball.
 
That date and location, coincidentally, is where they used military and police units to mount a massive search for the surviving Boston Marathon bomber.

You wanna keep playing 20 Questions, or let us all know why this isn't what it seems to be?   [popcorn]


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: fistful on April 21, 2013, 07:05:45 PM
Just to play Devil's Advocate cop's advocate csdaddy's advocate for a minute, is it possible that most of the manhunt/search/home invasion was performed in a polite and voluntary fashion, but police got a little more drastic at some addresses? Maybe there was something suspicious there, or someone phoned in a tip?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Gewehr98 on April 21, 2013, 07:19:19 PM
Fistful, that's certainly a possibility, and I wouldn't discount that explanation.

The video shows one thing.  I'd like to learn what really transpired and forced the rough treatment of those citizens. (Citizens, not civilians, because cops are also civilians...)

Unfortunately, were it to happen on my home turf, I'm one of those who would refuse, based on an obsolete understanding of the 4th Amendment and search warrants with respect to the contents of my home.

I'd lose, because as it turns out, "exigency" trumps the 4th and the requirements for a warrant.  ("What did we learn on the show tonight, Craig?")

It doesn't negate the fact that they'd find a couple pressure cookers in the kitchen cabinets, many pounds of black and smokeless powder in the reloading room, and several gun safes full of icky semiautomatic military lookalike guns.  


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 21, 2013, 07:45:32 PM
Demonstrates exactly why a person needs a security screen door on the outside of the front door.

Knock knock. 

Open main door.  "Yes?"

"Police, turr'ism, open."

"No.  4A.  Warrant.  Denial does not equal grounds for warrant."  Close main door.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on April 21, 2013, 07:56:09 PM
Demonstrates exactly why a person needs a security screen door on the outside of the front door.

Knock knock. 

Open main door.  "Yes?"

"Police, turr'ism, open."

"No.  4A.  Warrant.  Denial does not equal grounds for warrant."  Close main door.


film it for you tube please.
that arguing points of law with the cop really excites the base  will get you lots of hits from them

it makes cops judges and lawyers laugh and or face palm though  though as they pass the link around for chuckles it will get you more hits


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on April 21, 2013, 07:59:37 PM
on that note  wheres the video of the cameraman standing tall for his rights?  surely he didn't submit?  not a true revolutionary! 
shame it takes more than you tube for a revolution


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Nick1911 on April 21, 2013, 08:00:07 PM
film it for you tube please.

And, for the love of god, verbally state where you are and what the date is!   =D


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Regolith on April 21, 2013, 08:20:58 PM
i am actually incredulous
and apparently you are not alone
i take it you don't see how location and date matter?

i believe it was watertown and what it purports.

the date would still help

When you hear hoofbeats, do you think zebras?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Ben on April 22, 2013, 04:57:16 AM
If the video is an accurate portrayal of events (even if only for that event) with no extenuating circumstances, it scares me. The chances of that happening to me or anyone here may be slim, but what if it did happen? Seeing it makes me think about what might happen if that scene played out at my front door two minutes from now. I look around my house and I see a pistol on the desk next to me. There's a shotgun leaning next to the bed in the bedroom and a pistol on the nightstand. There's all kinds of gun paraphernalia scattered about. There's two 1lb cans of black powder sitting out on a shelf.

What would the cops do? If it was rural cops, maybe nothing. Cops in Boston or where I live -- communities with anti-gun leanings? I'm wondering if, even if I wasn't arrested, if they would leave my house after searching, with my guns (at least those out in the open) in their possession? What alarm might the BP set off it was a search for someone like the Boston bomber? Paranoid maybe, but I don't like thinking, "I shouldn't keep some of this crap lying around, because you never know..."

 It's my home. I should be able to keep all the legal crap I want out and in the open without fear of it getting me in trouble because it may be "politically incorrect" for a particular circumstance. Let's not even get into being driven from my home with hands raised when I've committed no crime. I wonder if the homes of the Watertown Mayor and city council members were also searched, and if so, how?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Harold Tuttle on April 22, 2013, 05:09:26 AM
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqJUam-KKcY


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Harold Tuttle on April 22, 2013, 05:13:52 AM
http://youtu.be/KY8PqQ-ppbM


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 22, 2013, 06:41:19 AM
Let's not even get into being driven from my home with hands raised when I've committed no crime. I wonder if the homes of the Watertown Mayor and city council members were also searched, and if so, how?


Eff this.

I would NOT keep my hands above my head for that situation.  That whole video I was mentally shouting at the people coming out of the green house, "take your damned hands down and act like men who know very well what they are about!"

If the cops are THAT twitchy they're gonna shoot someone who obviously isn't the particular subject they're looking for... I lack the words to describe my revulsion.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on April 22, 2013, 07:10:48 AM

Eff this.

I would NOT keep my hands above my head for that situation.  That whole video I was mentally shouting at the people coming out of the green house, "take your damned hands down and act like men who know very well what they are about!"

If the cops are THAT twitchy they're gonna shoot someone who obviously isn't the particular subject they're looking for... I lack the words to describe my revulsion.

who exactly are they looking for?  in your informed opinion


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Hutch on April 22, 2013, 07:14:44 AM

Eff this.

I would NOT keep my hands above my head for that situation.  That whole video I was mentally shouting at the people coming out of the green house, "take your damned hands down and act like men who know very well what they are about!"

If the cops are THAT twitchy they're gonna shoot someone who obviously isn't the particular subject they're looking for... I lack the words to describe my revulsion.
I'd say we'll split up your stuff afterwards, but it would all be taken as evidence.  Pick your battle, dude.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Ben on April 22, 2013, 07:16:00 AM

Eff this.

I would NOT keep my hands above my head for that situation.  That whole video I was mentally shouting at the people coming out of the green house, "take your damned hands down and act like men who know very well what they are about!"

If the cops are THAT twitchy they're gonna shoot someone who obviously isn't the particular subject they're looking for... I lack the words to describe my revulsion.

The "hands up" part of that video is also what bothered me the most. I'm not going to judge the people that complied, because I'm certain they were scared and disoriented - because that's how cops set operations like raids up - specifically to keep criminal suspects off balance and compliant (I'm not claiming this was a raid, just that they used similar tactics to keep people compliant). Only in this case (from what we know) the people in the house were not criminal suspects. The woman who walked out of the house and put her hands down was to me, clearly doing so because it looked like she figured, "I'm out of the house in public now, they probably don't need my hands up." Then the one cop uses command voice on her, which is what really irritated me. These are US citizens helping you out with your search. If for whatever reason you want her to keep her hands up, talk to her like she's a US citizen and not a criminal suspect, and say "please".


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 22, 2013, 07:19:10 AM
The "hands up" part of that video is also what bothered me the most. I'm not going to judge the people that complied, because I'm certain they were scared and disoriented - because that's how cops set operations like raids up - specifically to keep criminal suspects off balance and compliant (I'm not claiming this was a raid, just that they used similar tactics to keep people compliant). Only in this case (from what we know) the people in the house were not criminal suspects. The woman who walked out of the house and put her hands down was to me, clearly doing so because it looked like she figured, "I'm out of the house in public now, they probably don't need my hands up." Then the one cop uses command voice on her, which is what really irritated me. These are US citizens helping you out with your search. If for whatever reason you want her to keep her hands up, talk to her like she's a US citizen and not a criminal suspect, and say "please".

What fun is it to get all dressed up in a soldier outfit if you don't get to yell at people and boss them around?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Harold Tuttle on April 22, 2013, 07:23:08 AM
there is also a distict possiblity that the door to door searches could randomly uncover non involved criminals that may not comply or respond with force.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Nick1911 on April 22, 2013, 07:26:01 AM
there is also a distict possiblity that the door to door searches could randomly uncover non involved criminals that may not comply or respond with force.

I was kind of wondering about that.  Were these legally considered voluntary searches?  What would have happened if they searched some house and found a large grow operation or some such?  admissible?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 22, 2013, 07:31:09 AM
there is also a distict possiblity that the door to door searches could randomly uncover non involved criminals that may not comply or respond with force.

We don't need no steenkin' warrants!  :cool:


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Harold Tuttle on April 22, 2013, 07:47:14 AM
ermagerd terrrrerstzes!
warrantless search season open!


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 22, 2013, 07:56:10 AM
This entire martial law episode was also a total failure in its purported mission.

As soon as they "allowed" people to go outside their homes, a resident found and reported the fugitive suspect  :facepalm:


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AJ Dual on April 22, 2013, 08:11:59 AM
This entire martial law episode was also a total failure in its purported mission.

As soon as they "allowed" people to go outside their homes, a resident found and reported the fugitive suspect  :facepalm:

Exactly, he was outside the "perimeter" by a few blocks.  ;/


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 22, 2013, 08:20:38 AM
Exactly, he was outside the "perimeter" by a few blocks.  ;/

He left the containment area without permission.

This exercise is invalid!

 


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: zxcvbob on April 22, 2013, 08:51:08 AM
I was kind of wondering about that.  Were these legally considered voluntary searches?  What would have happened if they searched some house and found a large grow operation or some such?  admissible?

If they remove you from your house at gunpoint, it obviously was not voluntary.  And if they did not have a warrant, *any* evidence found should be inadmissible.  (supposedly they weren't looking for evidence, they were looking for a specific dangerous fugitive.)  If they knock politely on the door and you let them in, anything they find is fair game.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: fistful on April 22, 2013, 10:10:43 AM
Anybody else notice the lady walking a German Shepherd out of the house, hands in the air?

Let's see. You're herding someone out of their house at gun point, with a fairly large dog, and you don't want them to have both hands on the leash?  =|


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 22, 2013, 10:28:34 AM
Anybody else notice the lady walking a German Shepherd out of the house, hands in the air?

Let's see. You're herding someone out of their house at gun point, with a fairly large dog, and you don't want them to have both hands on the leash?  =|

How else do you get an opportunity to shoot your ninjagun at something?  That's what police home invasions are FOR.  Gotta leave the opportunity for it to happen. =|


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Pharmacology on April 22, 2013, 06:32:11 PM
who exactly are they looking for?  in your informed opinion

"law enforcement officers conducted a nearly 24-hour door-to-door manhunt for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, who is suspected of helping his brother plant two bombs near the finish line at Monday's Boston Marathon that wounded more than 170 people and left three dead.
Officials announced at 6:00 p.m. news conference that they had been unable to apprehend the suspect, despite combing through a 20-block area of the Boston suburb of Watertown"

I'm with Gewher on this one.  Why are you being intentionally- well, I'll just say "coy"?
Are you trying to prove that these intrusions are OK  if they are or are not looking for the boston bomber in an area that is or is not  Watertown?
I really fail to see what distinction you seem to perceive there.



Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: zxcvbob on April 22, 2013, 06:57:39 PM
"law enforcement officers conducted a nearly 24-hour door-to-door manhunt for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, who is suspected of helping his brother plant two bombs near the finish line at Monday's Boston Marathon that wounded more than 170 people and left three dead.
Officials announced at 6:00 p.m. news conference that they had been unable to apprehend the suspect, despite combing through a 20-block area of the Boston suburb of Watertown"

I'm with Gewher on this one.  Why are you being intentionally- well, I'll just say "coy"?
Are you trying to prove that these intrusions are OK  if they are or are not looking for the boston bomber in an area that is or is not  Watertown?
I really fail to see what distinction you seem to perceive there.


It could have been a drug bust filmed weeks ago and just posted this weekend with a misleading caption.  I doubt it, but it's possible.  Also they may have been tipped that Tsarnaev was actually in that house and had a warrant, rather it being a random search.  We don't know, and the guy posting the video seems to have an agenda.

I think it's exactly what it looks like, but I wouldn't bet my life on it.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Scout26 on April 22, 2013, 06:59:31 PM
I was kind of wondering about that.  Were these legally considered voluntary searches?  What would have happened if they searched some house and found a large grow operation or some such?  admissible?

IANAL, NDISAAHIELN.

Generally no.  Fruit of the Poisioned Tree.  But if they ask to come in and you say "Yes", then it's a legal search, anything and everything they find will be admissible.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Boomhauer on April 22, 2013, 07:04:17 PM
Quote
We don't know,

Some of the most important words in this thread.

All the info we have on the whole thing going down in Boston is secondhand accounts. Sometimes you get intentionally misleading info, sometime you get bad info, etc.

Keep that in mind before simply opening your can o' outrage and shouting from the internet rooftops about stuff you probably don't have the first bit of accurate info about.








Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: kgbsquirrel on April 22, 2013, 07:59:19 PM
If they remove you from your house at gunpoint, it obviously was not voluntary.  And if they did not have a warrant, *any* evidence found should be inadmissible.  (supposedly they weren't looking for evidence, they were looking for a specific dangerous fugitive.)  If they knock politely on the door and you let them in, anything they find is fair game.

This. In such exigent circumstances, such as our bomb-hurling Chechen here, requiring warrantless searches it should be an absolute given that anything seen by the officers that is not the bomb-hurling psychopath should be automatically fruit-of-the-poison tree.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Pharmacology on April 22, 2013, 08:22:41 PM
Some of the most important words in this thread.

All the info we have on the whole thing going down in Boston is secondhand accounts. Sometimes you get intentionally misleading info, sometime you get bad info, etc.

Keep that in mind before simply opening your can o' outrage and shouting from the internet rooftops about stuff you probably don't have the first bit of accurate info about.

The hilarious "what ifs"  that are being posted for possible justification make it clear that the events in the video are so hard to justify that it's a little mind numbing.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Ron on April 22, 2013, 08:27:58 PM
I'm sure there is a perfectly justifiable reason to march folks out of their houses with multiple guns pointed at them when they have done nothing wrong.

Armored vehicles in the street and suspension of normal constitutional protections are the new normal.

At least I'm safe  ;/


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: freakazoid on April 22, 2013, 09:13:27 PM
Anybody know about how many houses they searched and how long it took?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Boomhauer on April 22, 2013, 09:17:02 PM
Anybody know about how many houses they searched and how long it took?

Of course not why are we going to bother with facts in this...



Title: Re: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on April 23, 2013, 01:45:58 AM
Which "what if's" ?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Harold Tuttle on April 23, 2013, 05:11:36 AM
scanner traffic told of a man who was stopped and probed by 4 robots because his ipod looked like a detonator.

it took awhile to deploy 4 robots

quote
It was a guy that was reported to be about 60 years old that the Military turned at least three if not four robots on. They said over the radio that he had a device on him with a dead man switch. The robots tore the package apart and then a LEO went with the man in an ambulance to a hospital. The radio trafic made it sound like the box had wood stuff but it wasn't clear what was going on... The radio trafic also sounded like the old man wasn't happy about the event too...

/quote

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1470774____NEW____Two_Explosions_at_the_Boston_Marathon___Warning__some_GRAPHIC_images.html&page=331


Posted: 4/19/2013 10:41:34 AM EDT
Near Monroe Muffler on Arsenal Street proned out at gunpoint by unit 18, visible transmitter.


(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/FITorion/BBS/BIO1ngoCYAAB_iBjpglarge_zps7bfee19e.jpg)



Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: freakazoid on April 23, 2013, 06:35:09 AM
scanner traffic told of a man who was stopped and probed by 4 robots because his ipod looked like a detonator.

it took awhile to deploy 4 robots

quote
It was a guy that was reported to be about 60 years old that the Military turned at least three if not four robots on. They said over the radio that he had a device on him with a dead man switch. The robots tore the package apart and then a LEO went with the man in an ambulance to a hospital. The radio trafic made it sound like the box had wood stuff but it wasn't clear what was going on... The radio trafic also sounded like the old man wasn't happy about the event too...

/quote

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1470774____NEW____Two_Explosions_at_the_Boston_Marathon___Warning__some_GRAPHIC_images.html&page=331


Posted: 4/19/2013 10:41:34 AM EDT
Near Monroe Muffler on Arsenal Street proned out at gunpoint by unit 18, visible transmitter.


(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/FITorion/BBS/BIO1ngoCYAAB_iBjpglarge_zps7bfee19e.jpg)



Skynet is online!  [tinfoil]


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: SteveS on April 23, 2013, 06:45:32 AM
This. In such exigent circumstances, such as our bomb-hurling Chechen here, requiring warrantless searches it should be an absolute given that anything seen by the officers that is not the bomb-hurling psychopath should be automatically fruit-of-the-poison tree.

That isn't how it works.  If it is out in the open or otherwise visible in an area where bomb hurling psychopaths may be, then it would considered to be in "plain view" and admissible.  If they had to move things to get a peek or they were looking through drawers, then it probably could be suppressed. 


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: fistful on April 23, 2013, 06:56:34 AM
who exactly are they looking for?  in your informed opinion

A white male in a white van?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: zxcvbob on April 23, 2013, 06:59:09 AM
That isn't how it works.  If it is out in the open or otherwise visible in an area where bomb hurling psychopaths may be, then it would considered to be in "plain view" and admissible.  If they had to move things to get a peek or they were looking through drawers, then it probably could be suppressed. 

That's how it would be if they had a warrant for the bomb-hurling psychopath.  Are you sure that's how it works under "exigent circumstances" w/o a warrant?  (if they take time out to bust you for your bag of weed, it obviously wasn't so exigent after all and we are back to that "poison tree")


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Harold Tuttle on April 23, 2013, 07:04:08 AM
(http://www.googlepixel.com/images/syborg.jpg)


Title: Re: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Pharmacology on April 23, 2013, 06:13:39 PM
Which "what if's" ?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2
The ones posted in the thread you're currently reading. I'm not playing your game. You can read them.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: RocketMan on April 24, 2013, 06:27:25 PM
Ran across a few stories where a house belonging to what were thought to be friends of the bad guys was raided.  Two men and one woman taken into custody and later released.  I wonder if this was that house?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Harold Tuttle on April 24, 2013, 06:59:20 PM
Two U.S. officials say the surviving suspect in the Boston bombings was unarmed when police captured him hiding inside a boat in a neighborhood back yard.

Authorities originally said they had exchanged gunfire with Dzhokhar Tsarnaev (joh-KHAHR’ tsahr-NEYE'-ehv) for more than one hour Friday evening before they were able to subdue him.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jim147 on April 24, 2013, 07:54:52 PM
Two U.S. officials say the surviving suspect in the Boston bombings was unarmed when police captured him hiding inside a boat in a neighborhood back yard.

Authorities originally said they had exchanged gunfire with Dzhokhar Tsarnaev (joh-KHAHR’ tsahr-NEYE'-ehv) for more than one hour Friday evening before they were able to subdue him.


I was watching the news that night. CNN I think. They reported a barrage of fire from the area. I'm sure this story will drag out the  [tinfoil]. I doubt we will ever hear the whole story about this one either.

jim


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 25, 2013, 01:33:16 AM
Two U.S. officials say the surviving suspect in the Boston bombings was unarmed when police captured him hiding inside a boat in a neighborhood back yard.

Authorities originally said they had exchanged gunfire with Dzhokhar Tsarnaev (joh-KHAHR’ tsahr-NEYE'-ehv) for more than one hour Friday evening before they were able to subdue him.


He was catching the bullets with his bare hands and throwing them back at the cops.  :police:


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: CNYCacher on April 25, 2013, 04:17:13 AM
I can pretty easily see how the cops sending less-than-lethal rounds at the boat for an hour would be reported by the news media as a shootout.

I also can not see any scenario where a person is hiding in a fiberglass boat, surrounded by cops, and starts shooting at them, but comes out alive.

I'll believe that he was unarmed, that he never shot at police from the boat, and that the news got it wrong if they say that he did, all because of the simple fact that he's not hamburger.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 25, 2013, 05:45:17 AM
I can pretty easily see how the cops sending less-than-lethal rounds at the boat for an hour would be reported by the news media as a shootout.

I also can not see any scenario where a person is hiding in a fiberglass boat, surrounded by cops, and starts shooting at them, but comes out alive.

I'll believe that he was unarmed, that he never shot at police from the boat, and that the news got it wrong if they say that he did, all because of the simple fact that he's not hamburger.

I think that old boat might have been plywood, but I'm not sure.  =|

LAPD managed to shoot something 100 rounds into and at a pickup and miraculously only wounded the two women in the cab.

Looking at the wide spread of bullet holes, it's entirely reasonable that the fugitive could have received a number of non-fatal wounds.  If he had been on the starboard side of the engine box, then he would have been mostly protected.

I am not at all impressed or comforted by the fact that Boston police and whoever else was helping them, shot 20 to 30 rounds into a boat in a residential area when nobody was shooting at them.  =(

Nor running around the neighborhood all day with automatic weapons with that kind of shooting discipline  :O


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: roo_ster on April 25, 2013, 05:49:56 AM
I think that old boat might have been plywood, but I'm not sure.  =|

LAPD managed to shoot something 100 rounds into and at a pickup and miraculously only wounded the two women in the cab.

Looking at the wide spread of bullet holes, it's entirely reasonable that the fugitive could have received a number of non-fatal wounds.  If he had been on the starboard side of the engine box, then he would have been mostly protected.

I am not at all impressed or comforted by the fact that Boston police and whoever else was helping them, shot 20 to 30 rounds into a boat in a residential area when nobody was shooting at them.  =(

Nor running around the neighborhood all day with automatic weapons with that kind of shooting discipline  :O

Ditto.  All that hardware, limited sov. imm., higher than your average bear wages, and still this happens.



Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: red headed stranger on April 25, 2013, 07:00:27 AM
The Boston Police Commisioner stated:

Quote
“Over the course of the next hour or so we exchanged gunfire with the suspect, who was inside the boat, and ultimately the hostage rescue team of the F.B.I. made an entry into the boat and removed the suspect, who was still alive,”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/20/us/boston-marathon-bombings.html?pagewanted=all&src=ISMR_AP_LO_MST_FB&_r=1&





Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: SADShooter on April 25, 2013, 07:33:31 AM
Exchange implies reciprocity, no? Was Dzokhar throwing fish hooks or the anchor? ???


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 25, 2013, 07:40:20 AM
The Boston Police Commisioner stated lied:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/20/us/boston-marathon-bombings.html?pagewanted=all&src=ISMR_AP_LO_MST_FB&_r=1&





 ;)


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: makattak on April 25, 2013, 07:45:36 AM
;)

I will give the commissioner the benefit of the doubt. He wasn't there, so it is likely someone reported to him that there was a shootout. Someone (likely many such someones) on the scene did the lying, though. 


Title: Re: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on April 25, 2013, 10:32:46 AM
Or like the sla shooting. Cops on north side of house reported taking fire that turned out to be shots from cops on south side going through house

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: makattak on April 25, 2013, 11:33:36 AM
Or like the sla shooting. Cops on north side of house reported taking fire that turned out to be shots from cops on south side going through house

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

True, it was my guess there was a lot of "sympathetic fire" going on. SOMEONE had to start it all off, though.


Title: Re: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 25, 2013, 12:35:00 PM
Or like the sla shooting. Cops on north side of house reported taking fire that turned out to be shots from cops on south side going through house

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ICS failure  :facepalm:


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on April 25, 2013, 12:48:16 PM
sla shootout?9,000 rounds


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: fistful on April 25, 2013, 08:17:02 PM
Remember Sunil Tripathi?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/24/sunil-tripathi-body-found-providence-river_n_3146389.html


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Pharmacology on April 26, 2013, 02:18:24 AM
Remember Sunil Tripathi?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/24/sunil-tripathi-body-found-providence-river_n_3146389.html

"Sunil Tripathi's Body Found? Body Pulled Out Of Providence River May Be That Of Missing Brown Student"

That's a bit racist, isn't it?   =D


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: roo_ster on April 26, 2013, 02:36:34 AM
"Sunil Tripathi's Body Found? Body Pulled Out Of Providence River May Be That Of Missing Brown Student"

That's a bit racist, isn't it?   =D

It takes a lot of green to be Brown.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fitz on April 26, 2013, 02:46:48 AM
Remember Sunil Tripathi?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/24/sunil-tripathi-body-found-providence-river_n_3146389.html

This is part of the False Flag conspiracy, of course.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 26, 2013, 06:54:25 AM
So did the bomber brothers kill him too ?    :lol:


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 26, 2013, 06:56:59 AM
Anyone pick up on:

1. Dzokhar (however you spell it) supposedly shot himself through the mouth when he was caught in the boat.
2. Dzokhar was captured unarmed.

How do those two work?

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/04/the-bombing-suspect-didnt-shoot-himself-he-didnt-wasnt-even-armed-when-hiding-in-the-boat.html


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Fly320s on April 26, 2013, 07:09:03 AM
Anyone pick up on:

1. Dzokhar (however you spell it) supposedly shot himself through the mouth when he was caught in the boat.
2. Dzokhar was captured unarmed.

How do those two work?

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/04/the-bombing-suspect-didnt-shoot-himself-he-didnt-wasnt-even-armed-when-hiding-in-the-boat.html

I noticed. Chalk it up to reporters trying to be first with information and cops who like to speculate.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 26, 2013, 09:23:50 AM
I noticed. Chalk it up to reporters trying to be first with information and cops who like to speculate.

Well, not to mention that the cops gratuitously riddled a boat with bullets  ;/

I'm sure they would like everyone to think that he shot himself.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: seeker_two on April 26, 2013, 11:41:11 AM
Well, not to mention that the cops gratuitously riddled a boat with bullets  ;/

I'm sure they would like everyone to think that he shot himself.

....Or that it was a boating accident.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: MillCreek on April 26, 2013, 03:45:11 PM
....Or that it was a boating accident.

APS knows boating accidents.  Why, just the other day, I was hauling up shrimp pots in my kayak when it overturned, dumping all my firearms into Puget Sound.  Truly a boating accident.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 26, 2013, 04:12:38 PM
APS knows boating accidents.  Why, just the other day, I was hauling up shrimp pots in my kayak when it overturned, dumping all my firearms into Puget Sound.  Truly a boating accident.

And if the cops question you further, just clam up.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: sumpnz on April 26, 2013, 07:00:24 PM
APS knows boating accidents.  Why, just the other day, I was hauling up shrimp pots in my kayak when it overturned, dumping all my firearms into Puget Sound.  Truly a boating accident.

 :rofl:


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Boomhauer on April 27, 2013, 06:43:36 AM
Quote
Well, not to mention that the cops gratuitously riddled a boat with bullets  rolleyes

Yes, I'm highly disappointed about that.




Because they didn't kill the *expletive deleted*er. When will marksmanship standards improve?





Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 27, 2013, 07:00:23 AM
Yes, I'm highly disappointed about that.




Because they didn't kill the *expletive deleted*er. When will marksmanship standards improve?





Well, I guess that they mostly proved that they can hit the broad side of a boat  :facepalm:


1. How did they know for sure that the person in the boat was the suspect?
2. Are police the judges and executioners now?
3. Where did all those bullets go?  Did some go through or past the boat?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 28, 2013, 08:27:13 AM
Well, I guess that they mostly proved that they can hit the broad side of a boat  :facepalm:


1. How did they know for sure that the person in the boat was the suspect?
2. Are police the judges and executioners now?
3. Where did all those bullets go?  Did some go through or past the boat?



Fiberglass isn't exactly a bullet resistant material.....


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 28, 2013, 09:17:05 AM

Fiberglass isn't exactly a bullet resistant material.....

Or plywood, for that matter.

I guess it depends on the caliber.  Would a .223 just blow up hitting GRP or plywood topsides  ???

The gas tank might slow down the bullet a bit  ;/


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: erictank on April 28, 2013, 11:05:28 AM
Or plywood, for that matter.

I guess it depends on the caliber.  Would a .223 just blow up hitting GRP or plywood topsides  ???

The gas tank might slow down the bullet a bit  ;/

Depends on the bullet, I'd imagine. Lightweight Hornady TAP .223 might not make it through the boat, but I'd bet lots of other bullets would.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: birdman on April 28, 2013, 03:39:39 PM
Depends on the bullet, I'd imagine. Lightweight Hornady TAP .223 might not make it through the boat, but I'd bet lots of other bullets would.

Googling found this:
http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/results.html

55gr TAP penetrated multiple drywall walls, so I would venture that it would penetrate a normal boat hull, albeit as either one or two big chunks.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on April 28, 2013, 05:42:18 PM
Googling found this:
http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/results.html

55gr TAP penetrated multiple drywall walls, so I would venture that it would penetrate a normal boat hull, albeit as either one or two big chunks.

Boats aren't made of dry wall  =D

Anyway the question wasn't whether it would penetrate one side but whether it would penetrate both sides.  I haven't seen a picture of the starboard side of the boat (nor anything else downrange  :O ).

Of course, inboard engines, bronze fittings, and terrorists would tend to slow down or stop bullets even more than the topsides.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: zahc on April 28, 2013, 06:03:38 PM
In my own tests with Black Hills FMJ, it penetrated 3 consecutive 8" cedar logs. I ran out of cedar logs after that. I would expect .223 FMJ to zip straight through a wood boat unless it hit a stringer or engine block or something.

However, Hornady V-max, loaded hot, doesn't even penetrate a cardboard box (the second side of the box looks like birdshot).


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: freakazoid on April 28, 2013, 07:54:36 PM
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: erictank on April 29, 2013, 08:36:28 AM
Boats aren't made of dry wall  =D

Anyway the question wasn't whether it would penetrate one side but whether it would penetrate both sides.  I haven't seen a picture of the starboard side of the boat (nor anything else downrange  :O ).

Of course, inboard engines, bronze fittings, and terrorists would tend to slow down or stop bullets even more than the topsides.


That's pretty much what I meant, though I wasn't clear in my OP. Wonder if the aforementioned TAP, or similar, rounds would go through-and-through? I'm leaning towards no, but have little to base that on in fact.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm

Interesting - wonder if the testing page I'd seen in the past was deliberately shooting at the 2x4s in the "interior walls" they used for testing? Though it didn't look like it from the pics, frankly. They got much lower penetration than BoT, though it looks like BoT only used FMJ (which on the other site did in fact penetrate all three "interior walls" and keep on going - it was only the low-penetration TAP/frangible types that didn't punch through at least two full walls, IIRC). Looks like BoT #4 tested a .223 round generally similar to the ones I saw on that other page, which for BoT penetrated 4 walls' worth of drywall (8 sheets). <shrug> Looks lie similar penetration of walls to 00 Buck, and far more controllable by a small-framed individual; you have to aim either weapon (AR or shotgun) and you've got 30 shots from the AR versus a practical max of 8-9 even from an extended shotgun mag, so I'd still give the advantage to an AR, it's just not quite as safe to bystanders as I'd been led to believe.

It does look more like rounds that missed whatshisname in the boat probably had a good chance of going through-and-through, though.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Phyphor on April 29, 2013, 08:32:12 PM
Is anyone surprised at this?

Female DNA found on bomb components in Boston Marathon probe, source says

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/29/marathon-bombing-probe-female-dna/#ixzz2Ruy6dFce


Quote
Female DNA was found on bomb components used in the attack this month on the Boston Marathon, a source familiar with the investigation confirmed to Fox News, though the source cautioned that it is too early to draw hard conclusions from that evidence.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/29/marathon-bombing-probe-female-dna/#ixzz2RuyCdMfj


Hmmmmm........


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 29, 2013, 08:47:21 PM
Is anyone surprised at this?

Female DNA found on bomb components in Boston Marathon probe, source says

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/29/marathon-bombing-probe-female-dna/#ixzz2Ruy6dFce


Hmmmmm........


Um... it's a bomb.  When they go asplodey, they're SUPPOSED to intermingle with all sorts of DNA. :'(


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: lupinus on April 30, 2013, 01:19:33 AM
Perhaps it wasn't part of the shrapnel or other explody bits?


Title: Re: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on April 30, 2013, 02:14:30 AM
Dna has come a long way. They can use contact samples of a few cells.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: seeker_two on April 30, 2013, 03:59:16 AM
Maybe Older Brother had a closer working relationship with his wife than earlier thought.......

.....that, or just transfer DNA from OB's clothing....


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Scout26 on April 30, 2013, 05:17:04 AM
Didn't they use a pressure cooker as the bomb case?  Perhaps grandma left some DNA on there?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: sumpnz on April 30, 2013, 08:34:10 PM
Lots of perfectly innocent, and nefarious, explanations for the XX being found.  Question will be whether it matches the wife, or the mom, or someone else.  Then the question will be how it got on the part it was found on.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on May 01, 2013, 06:18:05 AM
Lots of perfectly innocent, and nefarious, explanations for the XX being found.  Question will be whether it matches the wife, or the mom, or someone else.  Then the question will be how it got on the part it was found on.

Hey, Tam - have you seen my pressure cooker?  I'm sure that I put it back on the shelf after I washed it.  =|


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on May 01, 2013, 08:32:40 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/breaking-boston-police-three-boston-marathon-bombing-suspects-151027478.html

I smell a cell, intelligence failures, and an administration with it's head in the sand. 


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: charby on May 01, 2013, 08:34:05 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/breaking-boston-police-three-boston-marathon-bombing-suspects-151027478.html

I smell a cell, intelligence failures, and an administration with it's head in the sand. 

I kind of figured that once they determined who the suspects were.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Tallpine on May 01, 2013, 08:45:25 AM
Quote
the police department said there was no threat to public safety at this time.

Boston is totally crime free now  ???

 ;/


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: fistful on May 01, 2013, 12:20:11 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/breaking-boston-police-three-boston-marathon-bombing-suspects-151027478.html

I smell a cell, intelligence failures, and an administration with it's head in the sand. 

Funny how I haven't heard much MSM outrage over the failure to "connect the dots." Anyone else heard that yet?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Monkeyleg on May 01, 2013, 12:52:16 PM
Funny how I haven't heard much MSM outrage over the failure to "connect the dots." Anyone else heard that yet?

No, but I've read many MSM stories about how Bush could have stopped 9/11.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: MechAg94 on May 01, 2013, 01:25:50 PM
No, but I've read many MSM stories about how Bush could have stopped 9/11.
What about truther stories of govt planted bombs?  No normal black powder bomb could have done that much damage.  They had to have had help!


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: Jamisjockey on May 01, 2013, 01:27:35 PM
Okay it now sounds like they were just fellow students who 'covered up' the crime by disposing of evidence.  Uh huh.  Ssssuuurrrreeeee.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: TommyGunn on May 01, 2013, 01:56:47 PM
What about truther stories of govt planted bombs?  No normal black powder bomb could have done that much damage.  They had to have had help!

I heard on the internetz that Seal Team 6 guys were spotted planting charges of Composition 4 at various points where the bombs went off... [tinfoil]



And he's on the case!!!!

↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 01, 2013, 07:03:06 PM
Funny how I haven't heard much MSM outrage over the failure to "connect the dots." Anyone else heard that yet?

front page of wash post count?


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: fistful on May 01, 2013, 07:09:16 PM
front page of wash post count?


Tell me more.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: makattak on May 02, 2013, 04:09:32 AM
Okay it now sounds like they were just fellow students who 'covered up' the crime by disposing of evidence.  Uh huh.  Ssssuuurrrreeeee.

Unfortunately, I can see people being this stupid. They see a bag of (what I must assume are) illegal fireworks and realize the police will be on edge, so, to help their buddies out, they toss the fireworks.

Now, I'm not saying this is likely the case, and if they tossed the computer and the backpack the fireworks were in, I would find it EXTREMELY implausible (as in, beyond a reasonable doubt) that they were unknowingly aiding the jihadi.


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: MechAg94 on May 02, 2013, 06:19:13 AM
Unfortunately, I can see people being this stupid. They see a bag of (what I must assume are) illegal fireworks and realize the police will be on edge, so, to help their buddies out, they toss the fireworks.

Now, I'm not saying this is likely the case, and if they tossed the computer and the backpack the fireworks were in, I would find it EXTREMELY implausible (as in, beyond a reasonable doubt) that they were unknowingly aiding the jihadi.
Didn't they supposedly do this AFTER the bombing?  IMO, that makes them knowing accessories. 


Title: Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
Post by: makattak on May 02, 2013, 07:28:53 AM
Didn't they supposedly do this AFTER the bombing?  IMO, that makes them knowing accessories.  

It does if only they knew (or suspected) he did it.

As I said, it is POSSIBLE these were stupid college students trying to save a buddy from an illegal fireworks charge (if they didn't know the fireworks were empty) or maybe keep someone they thought was innocent from a big misunderstanding by the police.

If they were involved in tossing the computer (and the backpack), that story become implausible.

Please note, I'm not saying I think they were innocent. I'm saying, at this point and the paucity of information we have, it is not outside the realm of possibilities for them to have been stupid college students trying to help out (what they thought) was an innocent buddy.

My opinion is they were knowingly aiding and abetting him. I'm just not ready yet to say that with 100% certainty.