Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Fly320s on January 06, 2017, 02:02:00 PM
-
Looks like 5 dead, others wounded. Airport shutdown.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/01/06/reports-shots-fired-at-fort-lauderdale-airport.html
FLL is Ft. Lauderdale, FL.
-
In Terminal 2, Delta's terminal.
Airport shutdown still. Term2 evacuated again.
-
One shooter in custody. Seems to be the only shooter.
-
Current reporting says suspect is a U.S.-born Hispanic male, with military I.D. A handgun was used.
-
The suspect was identified as Esteban Santiago, Fla. Sen. Bill Nelson told reporters. He said Santiago was carrying a military ID, but did not elaborate.
-
I wonder if the airport (other than past the TSA checkpoint) is a gun free zone in FL. In WA they are not. I have open carried numerous times at the airport here when dropping people off or picking them up and I have never had a problem. In the winter I conceal just because it is cold. ;)
I bet after this I will at least be shadowed by the Po-Po when OC at the airport if not outright approached and questioned. :(
bob
-
There are a ton of police and tactical teams there now. I wonder if something else is going on.
It seems excessive for a lone shooter scenario.
-
I've seen reports of a 2nd shooter in a parking structure.
-
Various news outlets are reporting that the gunman had a checked firearm in his checked luggage on a flight from Canada. After he picked up his suitcase, he went into a restroom, retrieved the firearm, loaded it and came out firing. I wonder how he had a handgun in Canada.
-
Various news outlets are reporting that the gunman had a checked firearm in his checked luggage on a flight from Canada. After he picked up his suitcase, he went into a restroom, retrieved the firearm, loaded it and came out firing. I wonder how he had a handgun in Canada.
It was an Air Canada flight from Anchorage.
-
I just learned that a co-worker's elderly aunt, from England, was shot and killed in this incident.
-
Various news outlets are reporting that the gunman had a checked firearm in his checked luggage on a flight from Canada. After he picked up his suitcase, he went into a restroom, retrieved the firearm, loaded it and came out firing. I wonder how he had a handgun in Canada.
I was just about to post wondering if their first move was going to be severely restricting flying with firearms, not knowing that his guy (allegedly) used a gun he checked. That being the case, I bet they're going to go for at the very least, no flying with ammo. I'm thinking that's something TSA or the airlines can do without even jumping through any hoops. I always carry my ammo and handgun in the same case when I fly with firearms.
-
“Only one suspect is in custody at this time,” said Israel, who noted a BSO deputy had taken the suspected shooter into custody. “He’s unharmed, and no law enforcement officials fired any shots. The subject is currently being interviewed by the FBI … At this point, it looks like he acted alone.”
And cops wonder why taxpayers are disappointed in them. They waste all the ammo on mental patients' caretakers and don't have any left for situations where it's needed.
-
And cops wonder why taxpayers are disappointed in them. They waste all the ammo on mental patients' caretakers and don't have any left for situations where it's needed.
My understanding based on information so far is that the the guy emptied his mag, then laid down and waited for police. Doesn't look like it was a "firefight" situation - he surrendered before the cops even showed up.
-
My understanding based on information so far is that the the guy emptied his mag, then laid down and waited for police. Doesn't look like it was a "firefight" situation - he surrendered before the cops even showed up.
Reports are sounding like multiple head shots, and 13 total hits, so likely not hammering them out as fast as he could, and most commercial airports I've been to have a fair police and/or armed security presence at all times. FLL ain't that big in terms of running (or golf cart) distances, so I have to wonder if they decided to hide until they heard a break in the shooting before going to check it out.
-
Every time I have been to my little local airport (GEG) there is always a police officer in baggage claim whenever there are people waiting for their luggage to arrive. I thought that was the same everywhere, I don't guess so. Of course since I retired from the Navy 20+ years ago I have only flown a handful of times and only once in the last 10 years or so. My time in airports is picking up visitors or dropping them off.
bob
-
Somebody's already insisting the bad guy was a "white Hispanic."
http://twitchy.com/sd-3133/2017/01/06/oh-ffs-tariq-nasheed-shares-searing-take-on-fort-lauderdale-shooting-suspect/
Another Tweeter helpfully clarified that a "white Hispanic" is "a hispanic who did something the Left was hoping a white man did..."
-
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2017/01/06/sen-bill-nelson-identifies-suspected-fll-gunman/
Air Canada claiming neither he nor any checked guns were on their flight.
We confirm we have no record of a passenger by the name Esteban Santiago, or checked guns, on any of our flights to Fort Lauderdale #FLL 5/5
Delta Airlines apparently.
-
His aunt, according to nj.com, said after a tour of duty in Iraq, he “lost his mind” and was hospitalized at one point for mental health issues. He was given an honorable discharge from the Alaska National Guard for performance-related issues.
In November 2016, he walked into an FBI office in Anchorage claiming that he was being forced to fight for ISIS and was sent to a psychiatric hospital, officials revealed.
He apparently has issues.
-
It was an Air Canada flight from Anchorage.
Could not have been. FAA does not allow international carriers to go from US to US airports.
-
Moar pics here, including the alleged weapon. Grainy pic, and I can't determine the make/model.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2554152/fort-lauderdale-airport-shooting-florida-latest-updates/
Anybody got clueage?
-
Moar pics here, including the alleged weapon. Grainy pic, and I can't determine the make/model.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2554152/fort-lauderdale-airport-shooting-florida-latest-updates/
Anybody got clueage?
Why does it seem like the Brits are the only ones that can cover things like this reasonably thoroughly.
-
Moar pics here, including the alleged weapon. Grainy pic, and I can't determine the make/model.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2554152/fort-lauderdale-airport-shooting-florida-latest-updates/
Anybody got clueage?
Walther PPS with extended mag. The mag release, takedown lever and little window for the serial number are pretty distinctive.
-
I wonder if the airport (other than past the TSA checkpoint) is a gun free zone in FL. In WA they are not. I have open carried numerous times at the airport here when dropping people off or picking them up and I have never had a problem. In the winter I conceal just because it is cold. ;)
A license issued under this section does not authorize any person to openly carry a handgun or carry a concealed weapon or firearm into: .... 14. The inside of the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or
It sure is a no gun zone. FL Law Enforcement has repeatedly held that that first clause refers to any part of the terminal building, inside or outside of security.
-
It sure is a no gun zone.
Better pass a law to make it a double no gun zone. And fast.
-
Better pass a law to make it a double no gun zone. And fast.
That would make it a no no?
-
That would make it a no no?
Yes.
Because that's what liberals do best ... pass new laws that make things that are illegal under existing laws illegaler.
-
Why does it seem like the Brits are the only ones that can cover things like this reasonably thoroughly.
I was going to comment on the apparent high quality of the Sun's reportage. Outstanding, compared to what I see in most U.S. reports.
-
Yet again. Failure of Law Enforcement and Mental Health providers. Of course that means we need more gun laws. ;/
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/06/us/fort-lauderdale-airport.html?referer=https://news.google.com/
-
Yet again. Failure of Law Enforcement and Mental Health providers. Of course that means we need more gun laws. ;/
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/06/us/fort-lauderdale-airport.html?referer=https://news.google.com/
No. Just no. The only failure here is the failure of the assailant to not murder people.
Doctors, lawyers, cops, and politicians are not responsible in any way for the actions of an individual.
-
No. Just no. The only failure here is the failure of the assailant to not murder people.
Doctors, lawyers, cops, and politicians are not responsible in any way for the actions of an individual.
I beg to differ. When someone goes to an FBI office and tells them ISIS is in their head telling them to kill people and that person is then sent for a mental health check it is those agents and doctors responsibility to do something.
There are even laws requiring them to do something about someone that demonstrates that they are a risk to themselves and others. You can want those laws changed, but as of now they are what they are. Quite a few of these mass shootings have involved someone that was known to law enforcement to be mentally unstable and had at least some contact with mental health providers if not in fact extended contact or treatment.
-
I beg to differ. When someone goes to an FBI office and tells them ISIS is in their head telling them to kill people and that person is then sent for a mental health check it is those agents and doctors responsibility to do something.
There are even laws requiring them to do something about someone that demonstrates that they are a risk to themselves and others. You can want those laws changed, but as of now they are what they are. Quite a few of these mass shootings have involved someone that was known to law enforcement to be mentally unstable and had at least some contact with mental health providers if not in fact extended contact or treatment.
How long should we lock people up that have committed no crimes, just on the say so of psychologists?
-
I beg to differ. When someone goes to an FBI office and tells them ISIS is in their head telling them to kill people and that person is then sent for a mental health check it is those agents and doctors responsibility to do something.
There are even laws requiring them to do something about someone that demonstrates that they are a risk to themselves and others. You can want those laws changed, but as of now they are what they are. Quite a few of these mass shootings have involved someone that was known to law enforcement to be mentally unstable and had at least some contact with mental health providers if not in fact extended contact or treatment.
Patients rights are a big deal. It's VERY hard to get someone involuntarily commited. That has a cost
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
-
Patients rights are a big deal. It's VERY hard to get someone involuntarily commited. That has a cost
I live this dream in my clinics every week. If the County Designated Mental Health Professional does not think the patient meets involuntary hold criteria, or the patient does not voluntarily agree to an inpatient stay, we are pretty much screwed. I have been involved with cases in which I truly wondered, after the patient had walked out, if I would be seeing their name in the paper soon.
-
Patients rights are a big deal. It's VERY hard to get someone involuntarily commited. That has a cost
In this case, it cost five people their lives.
I don't think it should be easy to commit people involuntarily, but I think when a person says the U.S. intelligence is controlling his mind and forcing him to watch ISIS propaganda, that might be above the threshold level. The problem is mental health practitioners (psychiatrists and psychologists both) who are only too happy to report non-dangerous people to NICS and support protective orders against people who aren't a threat to anyone "out of an abundance of caution," but who aren't willing to commit people such as this because, well, "rights."
-
How long should we lock people up that have committed no crimes, just on the say so of psychologists?
If I ever feel compelled to tell the FBI that there are voices in my head telling me to watch ISIS videos and to kill for ISIS you can lock me up permanently. We aren't talking about some mundain depression or OCD behavior here. This guy should obviously have been held or monitored in some way. I'm kind of sick of people blaming guns when mental health disorders are really the cause of most of these rampages.
-
When they outlaw insanity, only outlaws will be insane. And my in-laws, but that's another story.
-
In this case, it cost five people their lives.
I don't think it should be easy to commit people involuntarily, but I think when a person says the U.S. intelligence is controlling his mind and forcing him to watch ISIS propaganda, that might be above the threshold level. The problem is mental health practitioners (psychiatrists and psychologists both) who are only too happy to report non-dangerous people to NICS and support protective orders against people who aren't a threat to anyone "out of an abundance of caution," but who aren't willing to commit people such as this because, well, "rights."
[tinfoil]
With all the incredibly *expletive deleted*ed up *expletive deleted*it our government has done is it completely crazy to just for a second or two, wonder if the guy might have been telling the truth?
-
I had a close friend who became schizophrenic. His erratic behavior went on for several years. Cost him his family, his job, and eventually his life. I spent many hours at various and sundry times trying to help/guide/convince him. He self admitted himself a number of times. They medicated him, got him thinking straight because of the meds and released him. After a few weeks he'd believe himself cured and stop the meds and go back into his delusions. Mental illness is a scourge.
I wound up carrying his coffin to his final resting place after he either threw himself off a pier into Lake Michigan because he could not stand dealing with his disease anymore, and knew he'd relapse. Or some of the druggy, homeless, dreck of the earth he fell in with when the disease grabbed him, knocked him over the head for pills, dope or money and chucked him into Lake Michigan. His body was too decomposed and battered by the rocks in the Lake Michigan harbor to be able to tell how he died.
The sad thing is that this terrible tragedy will do nothing to change how mental illness is dealt with/treated in America. That is more than a shame, it is part of the scourge. The intelligentsia and literati will blame every other thing but the monster that should be dealt with; mental illness.
-
And que up the clinton news network for "whitening" up the guy.
(https://i.sli.mg/gEQ1jz.png)
-
(https://startthinkingright.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/george-zimmerman-photo-altered-to-make-him-look-white1.png)
-
And que up the clinton news network for "whitening" up the guy.
(https://i.sli.mg/gEQ1jz.png)
Although, given the press's actions with Zimmerman* this is entirely believable, it seems that not only did CNN not publish a lightened photo, that's not even the right person.
*(NBC's dishonest tape edit being foremost, but among others, inventing "white hispanic" so they didn't have to abandon their narrative come to mind)
-
I still don't understand exactly (or even approximately) what "Hispanic" is or means. My late wife was from Chile. The U.S. government consistently wanted to classify her as "Hispanic." She was incensed. Her view was that she was white, and happened to have been born in South America in a country where Spanish is the language. She was very adamant about it.
-
I still don't understand exactly (or even approximately) what "Hispanic" is or means. My late wife was from Chile. The U.S. government consistently wanted to classify her as "Hispanic." She was incensed. Her view was that she was white, and happened to have been born in South America in a country where Spanish is the language. She was very adamant about it.
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/22/upshot/more-hispanics-declaring-themselves-white.html?_r=0
-
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/22/upshot/more-hispanics-declaring-themselves-white.html?_r=0
Hmmm ...
The largest shifts were among Americans of Hispanic origin, who are the nation’s fastest growing ethnic group by total numbers.
Race is an immutable characteristic for many white, black and Asian-Americans. It is less clear for Americans of Hispanic origin. The census form asks two questions about race and ethnicity: one about whether individuals are of Hispanic or Latino origin, and another about race. “Hispanics” do not constitute a race, according to the census, and so 37 percent of Hispanics, presumably dissatisfied with options like “white” or “black,” selected “some other race.”
The researchers found that 2.5 million Americans of Hispanic origin, or approximately 7 percent of the 35 million Americans of Hispanic origin in 2000, changed their race from “some other race” in 2000 to “white” in 2010. An additional 1.3 million people switched in the other direction. A noteworthy but unspecified share of the change came from children who weren’t old enough to fill out a form in 2000, but chose for themselves in 2010.
My wife never changed. She always considered herself white.
The data provide new evidence consistent with the theory that Hispanics may assimilate as white Americans, like the Italians or Irish, who were not universally considered to be white. It is particularly significant that the shift toward white identification withstood a decade of debate over immigration and the country’s exploding Hispanic population, which might have been expected to inculcate or reinforce a sense of Hispanic identity, or draw attention to divisions that remain between Hispanics and non-Hispanic white Americans. Research suggests that Hispanics who have experienced discrimination are less likely to identify as white.
That's the part that has always mystified me. Spain is a European country on the north side of the Mediterranean Sea. So are France, Italy, and Greece. French, Italians, and Greeks are considered white, so why is there a special classification for people whose ancestors 500 years ago came from Spain?
The data also call into question whether America is destined to become a so-called minority-majority nation, where whites represent a minority of the nation’s population. Those projections assume that Hispanics aren’t white, but if Hispanics ultimately identify as white Americans, then whites will remain the majority for the foreseeable future.
It's all in the spin ...
-
Back to the shooter, and the possible failings of the intelligence and mental health people -- I just saw a report that the shooter traveled from Alaska to Florida on a one-way ticket. I thought one-way tickets were supposed to send up red flags. I would think especially someone traveling with a gun on a one-way ticket might be something that should have sent up several red flags. The more that comes out about this, the more it appears that the aw-thaw-rih-tays royally screwed the pooch on this one.
-
And back to the difference between race and ethnicity:
The collective wisdom of the Internet tells me that race is biological and doesn't change (Rachel Dolazell notwithstanding), but ethnicity is about cultural identification, and may change. If that's the case, then it doesn't seem to make much sense for the .gov to be asking about our ethnicity, since that may change. And, in any case, this would seem to suggest that "white" is not a descriptor of an ethnicity.
So if ethnicity means
Ethnicity is about tradition, learned behavior and customs. It is about learning where you come from, and celebrating the traditions and ideas that are part of that region.
Read more: Difference Between Ethnicity and Race | Difference Between http://www.differencebetween.net/science/nature/difference-between-ethnicity-and-race/#ixzz4VBy7QRZq
What do people who came to the U.S. from France or Italy put down for ethnicity? Shouldn't Italian-Americans put down "Italian"? Shouldn't German-Americans put down "Germanic"? Ben, you're Americanized, but what ethncity does your father consider himself to be? If you were filling out a .gov form for him (such as the census), what would you enter as his ethnicity?
The more I look into it, the less I see any reason for the .gov to be asking about something that may change from one year to the next. And it would seem that the proper ethnic classifications for Americans should probably not be "white" or "Hispanic," but either "Caucasian-American," "African-American," or "Latin-American." And then, of course, we would need "Chinese-American," "Japanese-American," "Korean-American," etc.
-
Back to the shooter, and the possible failings of the intelligence and mental health people -- I just saw a report that the shooter traveled from Alaska to Florida on a one-way ticket. I thought one-way tickets were supposed to send up red flags. I would think especially someone traveling with a gun on a one-way ticket might be something that should have sent up several red flags. The more that comes out about this, the more it appears that the aw-thaw-rih-tays royally screwed the pooch on this one.
Those were some of my exact thoughts. He had been to the FBI, been held for a few days for a mental health eval, had his gun taken for 30 days, several DV visits at his residence in AK, one way ticket to the opposite corner of the US and a checked gun. I think TSA and others may have some 'splaining to do but that won't happen. The focus will become "how can we let people fly with guns and ammo in their luggage?". The underlying failure of the TSA, FBI and possibly the military will soon be forgotten and the focus will once again become the gun and not the failures of all involved that allowed it to get to the point it did.
bob
-
If he was released from the hospital then there was no reason to take his gun.
-
If he was released from the hospital then there was no reason to take his gun.
Being released from the hospital is not why they would give him his gun back. If he had been adjudicated as a danger to himself or others then he could have been released and never been legally allowed to own a gun again until he had those rights restored. Without the adjudication there was no grounds to keep his gun so it was given back. In the back of my mind I keep thinking this guy was probably an diagnosed schizophrenic. Hopefully the mental health aspect of this will be examined but I don't think so, IMO focus will be flying with firearms in checked luggage.
bob
-
Hopefully the mental health aspect of this will be examined but I don't think so, IMO focus will be flying with firearms in checked luggage.
I think we can count on that. As well as extending the "sterile" areas of terminals to everything inside the doors, rather than just the portions on the concourse side of the security screening portals.
-
Probably BS but it'd be interesting to see the left's reaction if it pans out to be true.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/01/update-ft-lauderdale-shooter-esteban-santiago-joined-myspace-name-aashiq-hammad/ (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/01/update-ft-lauderdale-shooter-esteban-santiago-joined-myspace-name-aashiq-hammad/)
-
Human seems to be a proper descriptive, if there is any reason whatsoever to have a descriptive, for sentient bipeds. How easy we roll over for the overlords in a country where E Pluribus Unum is the supposed to be the reality. Whenever I have to fill out a form and it asks stupid questions, I give stupid answers. I Am Other!
-
And, in other news, the FBI is in full "Nothing to see here, move along" mode.
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2017/01/09/airport-shooting-suspect-to-make-his-first-court-appearance/
“He was a walk-in complaint. This is something that happens at FBI offices around the country every day,” FBI agent Marlin Ritzman said.
Do they really expect us to believe that every day somewhere in the United States an "agitated" young man, who has recently been kicked out of the National Guard, walks into an FBI office claiming that a U.S. government intelligence agency is controlling his mind and forcing him to watch ISIS propaganda?
Every day? REALLY?
Color me skeptical.
-
And here we go - you "should have a valid reason" for flying with a firearm:
http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2017/01/09/should-airport-passengers-be-allowed-to-travel-with-guns-ammo.html
-
I have the most valid reason in the world: I'm here, and I want to go there, and take my gun with me.
If they want me to reclaim my checked firearm at a separate office, that's fine with me. Less worry that someone whose suitcase resembles mine will walk out with my gun.
-
Not sure what to make of this.
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2017/01/airport-shooter-converted-islam-identified-aashiq-hammad-years-joining-army/
-
Not sure what to make of this.
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2017/01/airport-shooter-converted-islam-identified-aashiq-hammad-years-joining-army/
Doesn't fit the accepted narrative. Must be fake news.
-
Incidentally, I'd just like to note that my instincts are once again correct that EVERY report of a second shooter in these types cases turns out to be false.
You would think the media might learn. No wait, I said that wrong. You MIGHT think the media would learn, but my instincts on that one also are correct.