Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Perd Hapley on February 16, 2017, 05:17:58 PM
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Why is there no talk of repealing the light bulb regs? ???
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LEDs have gone mainstream enough to be legitimized in the eyes of the buying public. Acceptance equals dramatically reduced call for return to the "real thing".
Brad
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Isn't Fistful on the payroll of Big Lamp?
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Isn't Fistful on the payroll of Big Lamp?
Yes, he's one of those 100 watt fat cats.
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Yes, he's one of those 100 watt fat cats.
Part of the il-lumen-ati.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VneoEvAJX0g
Substitute 'light bulbs' for 'Mexican avocados', and you have the Big Lamp meetings. I see Fistful as Kyle.
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1. LED's have gotten popular and cheap enough to afford to some extent.
2. It is still less than a month since he took office and he still doesn't have his full cabinet in place.
3. There are more important things people are waiting for and talking about.
Give it time.
I would rather see the toilet regulations repealed first.
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1. LED's have gotten popular and cheap enough to afford to some extent.
2. It is still less than a month since he took office and he still doesn't have his full cabinet in place.
3. There are more important things people are waiting for and talking about.
Give it time.
I would rather see the toilet regulations repealed first.
The speech kicking off flushgate would be marvelous. You're gonna be able to take a great crap again! It will be the best ever! My pool is more regular than Hillary's, you don't hear about anyone investigating that. It will be yuuuge! Make #2 great again!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VneoEvAJX0g
Substitute 'light bulbs' for 'Mexican avocados', and you have the Big Lamp meetings. I see Fistful as Kyle.
Yeah, well you're Scott. [tinfoil]
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After going nearly 100% compact flourescent lamps (CFLs) and getting pissed at the long life lies, I finally broke down yesterday and got two 15W input, 100W equivalent LED bulbs. (Those things are oddly heavy.)
We'll see if I've been lied to again.
Only a month ago during a cleaning frenzy I threw out disposed of properly a yuge box of dead CFLs I was saving to dump on the desk of any legislator who dared tout CFLs. I had most of them marked with date installed, date died.
Terry
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After going nearly 100% compact flourescent lamps (CFLs) and getting pissed at the long life lies, I finally broke down yesterday and got two 15W input, 100W equivalent LED bulbs. (Those things are oddly heavy.)
LED lamps do tend to be quite a bit heavier than other kinds. Some of them require a lot of metal for heat-sinking. The newer generations tend to be less hefty.
And then you have these suckers:
(http://img.ecer.com/nimg/91/09/9e8984d3c200c2f09dc358d77937.jpg)
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After going nearly 100% compact flourescent lamps (CFLs) and getting pissed at the long life lies, I finally broke down yesterday and got two 15W input, 100W equivalent LED bulbs. (Those things are oddly heavy.)
I just chucked a couple CFLs. One I installed in 2012(I date them), one predated my dating them.
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After going nearly 100% compact flourescent lamps (CFLs) and getting pissed at the long life lies, I finally broke down yesterday and got two 15W input, 100W equivalent LED bulbs. (Those things are oddly heavy.)
We'll see if I've been lied to again.
Only a month ago during a cleaning frenzy I threw out disposed of properly a yuge box of dead CFLs I was saving to dump on the desk of any legislator who dared tout CFLs. I had most of them marked with date installed, date died.
Terry
The 75W equivalent LED's seem to be the sweet spot right now. I like the flat Philips ones (A21 profile, 13W) but they're still a bit expensive. Anything higher wattage needs a heat sink.
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I thought he was more of a dim bulb.
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I thought he was more of a dim bulb.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
He's full of bright ideas.
Brad
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I just chucked a couple CFLs. One I installed in 2012(I date them), one predated my dating them.
I've known of CFLs to last years. 'Course the incandescents in our bedroom ceiling fan have lasted years, as well. LEDs will probably last much longer, until their owners begin to wonder why they're so dim after ten years.
I thought he was more of a dim bulb.
Watt are you talking about?
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I just chucked a couple CFLs. One I installed in 2012(I date them), one predated my dating them.
2017 minus 2012 does not equal ten years. While yours (and mine) may have been economical in terms of energy usage, when you add in the initial outlay, I doubt it. I do have some low-wattage ones in fairly well-ventilated areas which have been running a long time. Most of the ones I had (discarded now) ran from one to three years, IIRC. The ones I had in ceiling fixtures and the bathroom seemed to go south fastest.
Oh, oh, and don't forget the additional cost of properly disposing of them. Which I'm sure you did, as did I.
We've got to shut down the LLI.... "Lying Lobbyist Industry."
Terry
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The problem with most longevity estimates for light bulbs is that it's very limited and, to my way of thinking, rather unrealistic given the lifestyles and patterns of most people.
I think the common assumptions are 3 hours of use a day or less, which includes single turn on and single turn off.
Most people don't do that. A bulb might not accumulate 3 hours of use a day, but it might also be turned on/off 20 or 30 times in a day.
That said, I've had CLFs last for significant periods of time. IIRC one on my patio was on 24x7x365 for something like 6 years, and the bulb in my front post light, dusk to dawn, lasted for close to 7.
But, I've since switched just about all of my bulbs to LEDs. I like the quality of the light better, especially with Gen 2 and Gen 3 LED bulbs.
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The problem with most longevity estimates for light bulbs is that it's very limited and, to my way of thinking, rather unrealistic given the lifestyles and patterns of most people.
I think the common assumptions are 3 hours of use a day or less, which includes single turn on and single turn off.
Most people don't do that. A bulb might not accumulate 3 hours of use a day, but it might also be turned on/off 20 or 30 times in a day.
That said, I've had CLFs last for significant periods of time. IIRC one on my patio was on 24x7x365 for something like 6 years, and the bulb in my front post light, dusk to dawn, lasted for close to 7.
But, I've since switched just about all of my bulbs to LEDs. I like the quality of the light better, especially with Gen 2 and Gen 3 LED bulbs.
Well, yeah, that's the thing. They test them under ideal conditions including a 5mph breeze at 20° C, and then represent (sell, hype. lie about, shift their eyes away from you) them as being better than incandescents and you can save US$XY.NN over ten years. Pants on fire.
By the way, the longest-lasting one I have is 100W equivalent in an outdoor fixture, no globe surrounding it, is nearly always in that aforementioned 5mph breeze, is cycled once a day, and runs in the coolth of the night. Yay! But my medicine cabinet, with its rather restricted air flow, screw in, turn on, and poof! <That's an exaggeration for the sake of a good story, but with toothy truth within it.
Any legislator who touts them ought to have to stick his finger in a light socket while I turn it on. Yeah, yee-haw!
Terry
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Is it science's fault that your life is atypical as hell?
:rofl:
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I hated CFL's, but LED bulbs so far are very decent. My only real concern is that cheap driver circuits will eat themselves prematurely. Bad capacitors, etc.
I'm waiting for the advent of LED shop lights that can economically compete with commodity grade T12 fixtures. Figure it will be 5 years or so.
Even if standard incandescent bulbs were returned to the shelves, I think I'd stick with LEDs.
I don't like the government limiting my options as a consumer by mandate, however I suspect that LED bulbs would not have become so inexpensive without the economies of scale imposed by consumers having little other choice. I've seen this in other places, like NEMA premium efficiency motors. Premium efficiency motors were available, but they were a premium product sold at premium pricing. Once premium efficiency motors were mandated, demand for them went way up, and the unit cost went down substantially. They were still more expensive then the old less efficient motors, but no where near the cost one had to pay for premium efficiency in the past.
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I would rather see the toilet regulations repealed first.
Toilet and gas can.
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"Even if standard incandescent bulbs were returned to the shelves, I think I'd stick with LEDs."
Yep. I know I would.
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"Even if standard incandescent bulbs were returned to the shelves, I think I'd stick with LEDs."
Yep. I know I would.
For general lighting, I'll stick with LED's. But out in my garage I prefer 100W incandescent.
BTW, at Sam's Club last week I bought a 6-pack of 9 watt (800 lumen) GE LED lamps for less than $6. That's a crazy-good price.
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Is it science's fault that your life is atypical as hell?
:rofl:
Science is supposed to be for the acquisition of knowledge, not for the development and confirmation of untruths. :old:
I grinned anyhow. =D
Terry
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For general lighting, I'll stick with LED's. But out in my garage I prefer 100W incandescent.
BTW, at Sam's Club last week I bought a 6-pack of 9 watt (800 lumen) GE LED lights for less than $6. That's a crazy-good price.
Yes, I noticed a dimming of flourescents in my unheated garage shop, too.
I was going to mention those verschtunkener gas cans too, but focused on those verschtunkener CFLs.
Terry
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I've seen a couple of people saying that within the next 2 to 3 years the low end LEDs (5,000 to 10,000 hour life) are going to hit a price point that is very close name brand incandescents.
I really doubt that they'll ever go that low, but there's no denying that LED bulb prices have plummeted over the past 5 years and at the same time the color rending has improved dramatically.
When I first started hearing about LEDs I was really dubious, but once I started seeing them in action, and seeing how the prices were trending down, I got on board.
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"But out in my garage I prefer 100W incandescent."
For task lighting when I'm working on a gun or something where I need clear, clean light, I go with halogen.
I have several lights that take the double-end bulbs. One is a clamp on swing arm lamp of the kind that architects and engineers use. It's really nice, but the switch is crapping out.
I also have a halogen desk lamp that's on my desk at work for when I need to actually read paper documents.
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I'm slowly going LED. LOVE them over incandescents and especially those damnable CFL abominations! When I find them for ~$2 USD ea. I snatch them up.
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I found an LED by GE called the BriteStik...
https://www.amazon.com/GE-Bright-Equivalent-General-Purpose/dp/B016B47R6I/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1487348194&sr=8-5&keywords=ge+bright+stick
Man, do these things put out a lot of light. None of the warm-up like the damnable CFLs. Think I found a good replacement bulb.
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Yes, I noticed a dimming of flourescents in my garage shop, too.
As far as I know, cold environments tend to work better for LEDs, though they're not always the best choice for hot environments.
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I found an LED by GE called the BriteStik...
https://www.amazon.com/GE-Bright-Equivalent-General-Purpose/dp/B016B47R6I/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1487348194&sr=8-5&keywords=ge+bright+stick
Man, do these things put out a lot of light. None of the warm-up like the damnable CFLs. Think I found a good replacement bulb.
These are the ones I found a Sam's for $5.78 a package: https://www.amazon.com/GE-Bright-White-60-watt-replacement/dp/B01LZ8K9JK The ads say "Energy Star", but there's no logo on the package and they are not dimmable.
When 800 lumens is not enough, I like these: https://www.amazon.com/Philips-13-Watt-75-Watt-SlimStyle-Dimmable/dp/B00ZRQSHUW or the Walmart brand non-dimmable "100W" LED's (1500 lumens)
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As far as I know, cold environments tend to work better for LEDs, though they're not always the best choice for hot environments.
LED's work fine in the cold.
I haven't tried them yet when it's *really* cold (like -30°), that's one reason I want incandescents in the garage.
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LED's work fine in the cold.
I haven't tried them yet when it's *really* cold (like -30°), that's one reason I want incandescents in the garage.
I haven't hit -30F yet, but I have seen -10F. My outdoor LEDs worked in that temp.
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Trump just killed the Obama Coal/CO2 regs yesterday. He had Rand Paul, McConnell, Manchin, a bunch of other congresscritters and slew of coal miners at the white house for the signing of the bill.
So electricity should be cheap again soon.
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LED's work fine in the cold.
I haven't tried them yet when it's *really* cold (like -30°), that's one reason I want incandescents in the garage.
I have, -40, and they worked fine. A flood and a regular in an outdoor fixture.
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As far as I know, cold environments tend to work better for LEDs, though they're not always the best choice for hot environments.
(I added "unheated garage" to my statement that you quoted.
Yes, they run longer in a cooler general environment, but starting up from the cold winter environment such as either in my unheated garage* or the one I have outdoors in cold weather, they take a long time to come up to anywhere near full brightness.
I suspect, but do not know, this has something to do with the lower vapor pressure of the mercury in cold weather.
Terry
* I no longer have that garage or shop.
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I hated CFL's, but LED bulbs so far are very decent. My only real concern is that cheap driver circuits will eat themselves prematurely. Bad capacitors, etc.
I'm waiting for the advent of LED shop lights that can economically compete with commodity grade T12 fixtures. Figure it will be 5 years or so.
Even if standard incandescent bulbs were returned to the shelves, I think I'd stick with LEDs.
I don't like the government limiting my options as a consumer by mandate, however I suspect that LED bulbs would not have become so inexpensive without the economies of scale imposed by consumers having little other choice. I've seen this in other places, like NEMA premium efficiency motors. Premium efficiency motors were available, but they were a premium product sold at premium pricing. Once premium efficiency motors were mandated, demand for them went way up, and the unit cost went down substantially. They were still more expensive then the old less efficient motors, but no where near the cost one had to pay for premium efficiency in the past.
I'm hoping they'll hit the market before the 18 year old twin tube units I have in my shop crap out. They absolutely suck rocks when it's cold but work fine when the temps ae above 50° F or so.
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I'm hoping they'll hit the market before the 18 year old twin tube units I have in my shop crap out. They absolutely suck rocks when it's cold but work fine when the temps are above 50° F or so.
If you want fluorescents to work reliably in the cold, you pretty much have to use high output fixtures. You might be able to retrofit yours, but you would need new ballasts, new tubes, and new sockets. And the high output are usually a little shorter, so you may have to use a special adapter type of socket.
(I added "unheated garage" to my statement that you quoted.
Yes, they run longer in a cooler general environment, but starting up from the cold winter environment such as either in my unheated garage* or the one I have outdoors in cold weather, they take a long time to come up to anywhere near full brightness.
I suspect, but do not know, this has something to do with the lower vapor pressure of the mercury in cold weather.
Terry
You're getting your LEDs and CFLs mixed up. Fluorescent lamps struggle in cold temps (and in extreme heat), while LEDs require good heat management, but don't mind the cold. They're opposites in that way.
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No, I was always talking about CFLs, having no experience with LEDs. I may have interpreted what you were talking about as being CFLs. I'm not sure whether you were unclear on that or I just plain misinterpreted what you said.
Bought two LEDs, so we'll see what happens there. Next cold spell, maybe I'll pull the 100W eq. CFL on my back porch and use the 100W eq. LED out there and see what it does from a cold start just by eyeball comparison.
Terry
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I have two lights out front, a wall light and a post light.
I replaced the CFL in the post light with an LED.
The wall light, which is an SOB to get to, still has the CFL.
When it dips down into the 20s here it takes at least 10 minutes for the wall light to come up to full brightness.
The LED is instant on, full brightness.
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We really shouldn't give the watermelons too much flack about recommending CFLs. After all, they thought Global Warming!!!! would do away with all this cold weather.
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Well, I don't know much about the details, but we've gradually been replacing with LEDs for several years now, and I have yet to replace one of them. Most of them are in ceiling/wall fixtures with wiring and all that from the 70's.
The one on the porch is relatively new (only since last summer, when we replaced the whole fixture) but I haven't noticed temperatures affecting it and we've had a couple cold snaps this winter.
I said, way back when, the market would probably eventually kill the incandescent light bulb, as well as others, so I didn't see the point in the government getting involved. At this point, I'm not even sure it really matters.
Now, gas cans, OTOH... Please, for the love of all that's holy, PLEASE, make gas cans GREAT again.
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I'm curious about the plastic-looking coating on my new LEDs down by the neck and socket areas. ???
Terry
It's not a coating. LEDs don't work on direct AC line voltage so the lamps contain a small circuit that drops voltage and rectifies it to DC. That's what is in the little plastic housing at the bottom.
Brad
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....
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Why is there no talk of repealing the light bulb regs? ???
Because it was done in 2014?
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/10/politics/policy-riders-spending-bill/
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How did de-funding change the fact that bulb manufacturers had to meet efficiency standards? I wonder if that legislation also dealt with magnetic sign ballasts, or if that was separate.
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Because it was done in 2014?
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/10/politics/policy-riders-spending-bill/
I think that just stopped them from outlawing any more incandescent lamps. 100W and 75W are still gone, except (ironically) for specialty lamps that don't put out much light. I think I saw some 100W "rough service" lamps at the dollar store, in plain packaging that minimized the rough service part, that were less than 1000 lumens.
I'm not sure about 60W general-purpose lamps, although LED's have that covered well enough maybe the demand is gone.
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Those energy standards covered a lot more than just incandescent lights.
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I think that just stopped them from outlawing any more incandescent lamps. 100W and 75W are still gone, except (ironically) for specialty lamps that don't put out much light.
That's because the thinner you make the filaments, the more efficient they are, but also more fragile.
The rough service bulbs at this point are, I think, limited more to furnace type environments, where 'rough service' is implied and an extra bit of heat isn't that big of a deal.
Otherwise, well, a well-potted LED is just as resistant to vibration(but CFLs aren't, which was the competitor when the regs were written) and cold(again, CFLs not good for).
The only area where incandescents are better than LEDs are hot environments. Heck, even in refrigerated places LEDs are double good because the lowered energy use means that you don't need to cool the environment back down as much because of the heat from the lighting.
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That's because the thinner you make the filaments, the more efficient they are, but also more fragile.
The rough service bulbs at this point are, I think, limited more to furnace type environments, where 'rough service' is implied and an extra bit of heat isn't that big of a deal.
Otherwise, well, a well-potted LED is just as resistant to vibration(but CFLs aren't, which was the competitor when the regs were written) and cold(again, CFLs not good for).
The only area where incandescents are better than LEDs are hot environments. Heck, even in refrigerated places LEDs are double good because the lowered energy use means that you don't need to cool the environment back down as much because of the heat from the lighting.
Or applications where light quality matters. Because incandescent still have 100CRI by definition. This is more applications than you might suppose; spectrometers, printers, evaluation lights, people like me who aren't blind and can easily see the difference, etc.
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Where I work, we still sell rough service bulbs by the case. Some people just like the way they look, and don't want to change.
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Where I work, we still sell rough service bulbs by the case. Some people just like the way they look, and don't want to change.
Women seem to like lighting on the less-harsh yellow side.
Hence the proverbial "candle-lit" restaurant or boudoir.
Same thing with old-time camera films. B&W photographers rarely used the panchromatic (blue-end-sensitive) films for glamor photography unless they used a softening yellow filter on the lens or xenon flash lamps. Orthochrome (red-end-sensitive) film was preferred for glam shots.
Blue-end lamps and films emphasize skin faults.
And a little spit or Vaseline on the lens was often used to soften details. (But don't spit on coated lenses.)
The heavy-duty incandescent lamps would give a more yellowish (candle-like) light.
Terry, 230RN
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Women seem to like lighting on the less-harsh yellow side.
Hence the proverbial "candle-lit" restaurant or boudoir.
Same thing with old-time camera films. B&W photographers rarely used the panchromatic (blue-end-sensitive) films for glamor photography unless they used a softening yellow filter on the lens or xenon flash lamps. Orthochrome (red-end-sensitive) film was preferred for glam shots.
Blue-end lamps and films emphasize skin faults.
And a little spit or Vaseline on the lens was often used to soften details. (But don't spit on coated lenses.)
The heavy-duty incandescent lamps would give a more yellowish (candle-like) light.
Terry, 230RN
True, but your terms are flipped; orthochromatic films are NOT red sensitive, and panchromatic are all-color-sensitive.
Red filters with panchromatic film give a strong whitening effect on skin and makes many blemishes, even freckles, disappear. But it also causes unattractive, white lips, so you have to use dark lipstick then, or in practice, use both makeup and filtration are needed. Yellow or orange filters are a bit less extreme.
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Where I work, we still sell rough service bulbs by the case. Some people just like the way they look, and don't want to change.
I like rough service lamps because they are typically 130-volt rather than 120-volt, so there's at least an outside chance that they'll last as long as they're supposed to. They do give off a bit less light, though.
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We've heard you like your service rough...
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I stockpiled incandescent bulbs to heat my reptile cage.
I buy leds for the house.
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I posted this on FB:
https://fee.org/articles/how-government-wrecked-the-gas-can/