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Main Forums => The Puke Palace => Topic started by: zxcvbob on November 20, 2018, 09:58:27 AM



Title: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: zxcvbob on November 20, 2018, 09:58:27 AM
There's a Cure 81 ham in the bottom of my deep freezer that has been there well over 20 years.  :laugh:  Not sure if it's 25 exactly but thereabouts.  I got it free from Econo Foods for some sale they were doing.  It's still wrapped in thick cryovac plastic and looks vacuum packed (by Hormel, I didn't do anything with it) so I suspect it's not freezer-burned or otherwise oxidized.

When I want ham, which isn't very often, I like to buy bone-in hams and cook them myself -- that's why I haven't done anything with this one.  I'm wondering how to use it?  (if it's still good when I thaw it)   I assume it's fully cooked but I'll need to read the label.  

Ham too salty to use for dogfood...  Grind it up and mix 50:50 with hamburger meat to make ham meatballs?  Boil it whole and see what I get, then slice it for sandwiches, salads, etc?  Slice it and dehydrate it like jerky?  

I have no problem throwing it out if it's gone bad, but I really doubt that it has.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: brimic on November 20, 2018, 10:19:17 AM
Register it, and have it vote in the next election.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: Mike Irwin on November 20, 2018, 10:37:13 AM
"otherwise oxidized."

Althought slowed by cold, some enzymatic process simply can't be stopped short of dry curing and thoroughly drying.

My guess is that that is NOT going to be the best voting-age ham you've ever had.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: lupinus on November 20, 2018, 12:12:52 PM
Well there's only one way to find out.

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Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: charby on November 20, 2018, 12:37:07 PM
Just toss it in the trash


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: just Warren on November 20, 2018, 12:38:56 PM
I like my ham old and warm.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: zxcvbob on November 20, 2018, 01:18:29 PM
Just toss it in the trash

"I'm sorry, Dave.  I'm afraid I can't do that."  

If I thaw it out and it stinks or tastes bad, then I can toss it.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: Brad Johnson on November 20, 2018, 02:31:41 PM
Just toss it in the trash

Are you kidding... ?
A 25 year old ham... ?

YOUTUBE GOLD, BABY!!!!

Brad


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: BobR on November 20, 2018, 02:47:02 PM
Who cares about the ham, I'm impressed you have a deep freeze that old that is still keeping things frozen. They don't make them like that anymore!!!

bob


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: charby on November 20, 2018, 02:52:36 PM
Are you kidding... ?
A 25 year old ham... ?

YOUTUBE GOLD, BABY!!!!

Brad

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Bob isn't a member of those forms social media.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: KD5NRH on November 20, 2018, 04:26:04 PM
Voting is thinking small. Get it on the ballot.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: HeroHog on November 20, 2018, 04:27:48 PM
Find some Green Eggs to go with it?


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on November 20, 2018, 04:29:39 PM
Go for it.

Just make sure you're stocked on extra toilet paper and maybe have an ambulance on standby.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: French G. on November 20, 2018, 05:01:36 PM
25 is a little old for me. I did sample some 1980s MREs though. Entree went trash unopened. Crackers were still crackers. Cheese spread as fine as it ever was.

Meatwise my oldest is 2014 canned bacon. I usually keep a couple of those 3 lb Hormel canned hams in the fridge and rotate them. Emergency dinner, or a week of ham sandwiches. Three year stated shelf life. I don't eat enough to justify keeping a whole salt ham around, wish I did. That I might let go 25.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: cordex on November 20, 2018, 05:34:13 PM
A 25 year old ham... ?

YOUTUBE GOLD, BABY!!!!
ôLetĺs get this out onto a tray. Nice!ö


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: HeroHog on November 20, 2018, 05:38:39 PM
In the late 60's I was eating C-Rats on a deer stand. Some was ok, the rest? "It'll make a turd."


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: Big Hairy Bee on November 20, 2018, 06:49:55 PM
Go fishing

https://youtu.be/6hyE_J75T4s


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: charby on November 20, 2018, 07:33:45 PM
"I'm sorry, Dave.  I'm afraid I can't do that."  

If I thaw it out and it stinks or tastes bad, then I can toss it.

One it's Cure 81, so a crappy ham to begin. 2nd, 20 years of aging in above 0 but below 32 is not good for food taste quality. Need to be be -15F or colder for longevity of food storage. 3rd, probably going to taste like a really crappy Cure 81 ham, might even be jerky like because the plastic wrap is not 100% non-permeable.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: just Warren on November 20, 2018, 07:43:57 PM
All of that just increases the entertainment potential.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: zxcvbob on November 20, 2018, 07:44:55 PM
One it's Cure 81, so a crappy ham to begin. 2nd, 20 years of aging in above 0 but below 32 is not good for food taste quality. Need to be be -15F or colder for longevity of food storage. 3rd, probably going to taste like a really crappy Cure 81 ham, might even be jerky like because the plastic wrap is not 100% non-permeable.

Not above 0.  I think my freezer is set to -5 but it might be a little colder.  I've thawed other meats out of that freezer that were several years old with no special treatment (wrapped in freezer paper) and they were fine.  But ham doesn't freeze as well as uncured meat, and 25 years is a long time.  I don't know what to expect when I thaw it.  

Probably in a week or so; I have a turkey to deal with now.  I might thaw it to make room for turkey leftovers...
I will do something with it before this end of the year and will post the results (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/media/n045.68486/full?d=1511271394)


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: Amy Schumer on November 21, 2018, 12:24:14 AM
You need to make a Tube of U video about it.

Discovery
Prep
Eating
Results

Edit to 10 minutes or less.


BTW my first drill in the Reserves in 1983, we were given C-rats stamped 1952.  Yep, 31 years old.   And we ate them with no ill effects, aside from usual effects of eating C-rations.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: charby on November 21, 2018, 04:33:59 AM
You need to make a Tube of U video about it.

Discovery
Prep
Eating
Results

Edit to 10 minutes or less.


BTW my first drill in the Reserves in 1983, we were given C-rats stamped 1952.  Yep, 31 years old.   And we ate them with no ill effects, aside from usual effects of eating C-rations.

Canned in a environment void of oxygen is different than a freezer.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: Fly320s on November 21, 2018, 01:35:44 PM
ôLetĺs get this out onto a tray. Nice!ö

I understand the reference.   =D

Think he wants to try a 25 year old ham?


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: Firethorn on November 27, 2018, 09:31:34 PM
Are you kidding... ?
A 25 year old ham... ?

YOUTUBE GOLD, BABY!!!!

Brad

This might actually be a good option.  Dig up how old it really is, make a video where you explain the circumstances and such, and try it like you'd try a 50 year old can of food.  It hasn't defrosted in that whole time, has it?

Then ask for donations on patreon or something.  ;)

maybe a gofundme for potential medical bills.



Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: Amy Schumer on November 28, 2018, 08:22:00 PM
That ham can't be any worse than this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZoHuMwZwTk


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: Hawkmoon on November 29, 2018, 06:46:10 PM
That ham can't be any worse than this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZoHuMwZwTk

That dude is a lot braver than I am.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: zxcvbob on December 25, 2018, 10:34:25 AM
The ham is thawing.  It looks fine thru the shrink wrap.  Unfortunately the label does not have a date on it.  It says it's from the Rainbow Foods store at the Crossroads shopping center.  (I thought it was from the old Econo Foods.)  Now I need to research when Rainbow was at Crossroads...  The ham may not be quite as old as I thought, but I'm pretty sure I bought it in the 20th century.

ETA: there's a registry number on the Hormel label.  So I will email/call Hormel and see if they can tell me when it was cured.  Might be fun to take the label to the SPAM museum and ask them there.  It's not far from here


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: grampster on December 25, 2018, 01:01:19 PM
Here's Bob eating the feet from his ham.


https://youtu.be/0Hzq49kKuSo


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: HeroHog on December 25, 2018, 02:59:22 PM
LMFAO!
PS: I WILL eat those neon-pink gas station pickled pig's feet myself...


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: Andiron on December 25, 2018, 05:31:56 PM
Down the friggin rabbit hole..  Just watched that redneck eat some kind of hot pepper and puke in a bucket for 8 min.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: Calumus on December 27, 2018, 06:08:39 PM
So, I've been dying to know if this thing was actually edible...


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: zxcvbob on December 27, 2018, 06:17:19 PM
So, I've been dying to know if this thing was actually edible...

I'm thawing it in the fridge, so it's thawing slowly.  It was still partially frozen this morning but it feels thawed now; I will open it tomorrow.  I will also call Hormel with the registry number and see if they can tell me a cure date.  I just finished brewing a batch of beer and cleaning up, otherwise I'd open the ham tonight.  (where's the :lazy: smiley?)


Title: Re: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: lupinus on December 28, 2018, 07:58:51 AM
Down the friggin rabbit hole..  Just watched that redneck eat some kind of hot pepper and puke in a bucket for 8 min.
You should see the one where he waxes his balls.

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Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: zxcvbob on December 28, 2018, 09:02:36 AM
[ignoring that last post]  I unwrapped the ham this morning.  I sent an email form to Hormel requesting information and should get a reply back in a few days.  I took pictures of the labels, and of the unwrapped ham, and will post them when I figure out where Android stores them in the cloud and how to get a shareable link.

The ham has no freezer-burn, and it smells like ham.  There was about an ounce of juice in the package, which I think is normal.  The dogs are very interested in it.  My brother says he thinks it's going to taste like "freezer", but I don't think cryovac plastic is that permeable.

Now to go slice into it...
 


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: zxcvbob on December 28, 2018, 11:35:35 AM
I got a reply back already from Hormel:
Quote
Mr. Zxcvbob,

Thank you for contacting us.

Art Goembel was the Curemaster from 1990-2001. We would not recommend using the ham. For best flavor and quality you should only freeze the ham for up to 2 months.

Please visit our web site for suggestions and recipes featuring our products.

I sliced a little piece off of the ham and fried it.  The texture might be a bit off from freezing, but it tastes fine.  It wasn't that good a ham to start with.  I've cubed a pound of it to saute with a chopped onion and bayleaf, then make navy bean soup on it.

I'm also looking for some good ham meatball recipes (using a mixture of ham and ground beef), and trying to figure out whether to drag out the meat grinder or just use a food processor.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: HeroHog on December 28, 2018, 11:50:03 AM
So, "only" 18 - 28 year old ham huh. Yeah, why not?


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: MillCreek on December 28, 2018, 12:19:24 PM
Speaking as a trained scientist and risk manager, I would have fed a test sample to the dogs first. Or possibly the spouse, depending on where she rates versus the dogs.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: Amy Schumer on December 28, 2018, 01:21:44 PM
I got a reply back already from Hormel:
I sliced a little piece off of the ham and fried it.  The texture might be a bit off from freezing, but it tastes fine.  It wasn't that good a ham to start with.  I've cubed a pound of it to saute with a chopped onion and bayleaf, then make navy bean soup on it.

I'm also looking for some good ham meatball recipes (using a mixture of ham and ground beef), and trying to figure out whether to drag out the meat grinder or just use a food processor.


And now we wait....

 [barf] [barf]


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on December 28, 2018, 05:21:04 PM
Speaking as a trained scientist and risk manager, I would have fed a test sample to the dogs first. Or possibly the spouse, depending on where she rates versus the dogs.

Don't you dare test it on those poor dogs!


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: MillCreek on December 29, 2018, 05:24:58 AM
I could not help but notice that it has now been over 24 hours since he tried the ham, and no followup posts from zxcvbob.  Hmmm.


Title: Re: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: lupinus on December 29, 2018, 06:26:47 AM
I could not help but notice that it has now been over 24 hours since he tried the ham, and no followup posts from zxcvbob.  Hmmm.
Probably making Mike's recent prep look tame

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Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: Ron on December 29, 2018, 07:23:33 AM
Im seeing no upside and a lot of potential downside to this self experimentation.



Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: zxcvbob on December 29, 2018, 08:08:20 AM
Sorry to disappoint y'all, (no I'm not) but the beans I cooked last night with a bunch of ham in them turned out really good. 

I sliced a 1/4" thick steak off the ham this morning and fried it, and I just put biscuits in the oven.  I have nibbled on the fried ham while waiting for the biscuits, and it's not great but there's nothing really wrong with it except it's too lean and a little too salty.

Still working on a ham ball recipe; combining meatloaf, ham loaf, and meatball recipes in my head.  I think 2 lbs of ham and 1 lb of 80% lean hamburger (and bread crumbs, 2 eggs, grated onion, mustard, etc) might work, but I'm a little worried about all the salt.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: gunsmith on December 29, 2018, 11:56:16 AM
  If you put it on youtube ( next time ) you can be a ham while eating ham!


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: HeroHog on December 29, 2018, 12:00:51 PM
Take a toilet pick a few hours after and it will be a SPAM post!


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: Ron on December 31, 2018, 08:55:33 AM
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/worlds-oldest-edible-ham?

Oldest edible ham


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on December 31, 2018, 11:35:15 AM
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/worlds-oldest-edible-ham?

Oldest edible ham

I'll believe it when someone eats it and survives.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: Firethorn on December 31, 2018, 10:47:16 PM
I'll believe it when someone eats it and survives.

For general edibility testing purposes, I'd also require them also not throwing up or developing an intestinal illness from it, even if they survive.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: French G. on January 01, 2019, 06:38:55 PM
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/worlds-oldest-edible-ham?

Oldest edible ham

I've been to see that fine thing in person, you might as well braise some Egyptian mummy.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: p12 on January 01, 2019, 08:08:56 PM
Well itĺs been a few days. .....?


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Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: charby on January 01, 2019, 08:16:25 PM
Well itĺs been a few days. .....?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No recent Robert or Bob obituaries in Rochester, MN. Just checked.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: zxcvbob on January 01, 2019, 08:22:47 PM
Well itĺs been a few days. .....?


No problems digestive or otherwise from the ham that I've eaten so far.

I made some ham ball mix yesterday: 1.5 pounds ground ham, 1 pound 80% lean ground beef, onions, bread crumbs, eggs, etc.  Was going to use 2 lbs ham to 1 lb of beef but I thought it might be too salty.  I fried a little piece of it before adding the last half pound of ham, and that was a good call.  I put it in the fridge overnight for the nitrites in the ham to maybe migrate into the beef and turn it pink.  I baked them today.  They are a bit salty so I'm trying to figure out what to sauce them with.  Probably something like yellow hotdog mustard and brown sugar thinned with a little apple juice, with a pinch of cloves and ginger.

I used a pound of the ham in a pot of white bean soup, and I used a little more tonight to flavor some blackeyed peas.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on January 02, 2019, 12:03:28 PM
No problems digestive or otherwise from the ham that I've eaten so far.

I made some ham ball mix yesterday: 1.5 pounds ground ham, 1 pound 80% lean ground beef, onions, bread crumbs, eggs, etc.  Was going to use 2 lbs ham to 1 lb of beef but I thought it might be too salty.  I fried a little piece of it before adding the last half pound of ham, and that was a good call.  I put it in the fridge overnight for the nitrites in the ham to maybe migrate into the beef and turn it pink.  I baked them today.  They are a bit salty so I'm trying to figure out what to sauce them with.  Probably something like yellow hotdog mustard and brown sugar thinned with a little apple juice, with a pinch of cloves and ginger.

I used a pound of the ham in a pot of white bean soup, and I used a little more tonight to flavor some blackeyed peas.

This has turned out to be a highly disappointing thread.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: Amy Schumer on January 02, 2019, 12:10:27 PM
This has turned out to be a highly disappointing thread.

Oh, it ain't over yet....  Remember, the dose makes the poison... ;) ;) ;)

Between the bean soup and the meatloaf... Hope springs anew !!!


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: Fly320s on January 14, 2019, 05:21:01 PM
How about now?


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: grampster on January 15, 2019, 06:31:45 PM
I got the diarhee just reading this thread. [barf] =D


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: 230RN on January 15, 2019, 10:20:01 PM
Jeeze, and I won't buy a can of food with even the slightest imperfection any more.

This, as opposed to the days when I had the proverbial cast iron stomach.  I also end up throwing away about a third or more of my produce since I usually can't finish all of it in a reasonable time.

They're pretty good at the market about cutting a head of lettuce in half for me, but even then, I usually can't finish it all.

The amusing part of that is when they re-wrap the other half and put it back on the shelf, it's usually sold within fifteen minutes anyhow.

Terry


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: Hawkmoon on March 20, 2019, 01:29:14 PM
Somehow, this thread caused me to go out and buy a Hormel canned ham. Expiration date is late in 2021 so no problem there, but a curiosity:

The can clearly states that it's precooked and can be opened, sliced, and eaten cold. BUT ... if you want it warm/hot, they want you to bake it for an hour at 325 degrees, and check it with a meat thermometer for 165 degrees. If it's already fully cooked ... what difference does it make?


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: just Warren on March 20, 2019, 01:32:07 PM
I've had this exact discussion with my wife.

She's yet to give me a good answer.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on March 20, 2019, 01:40:56 PM
Somehow, this thread caused me to go out and buy a Hormel canned ham. Expiration date is late in 2021 so no problem there, but a curiosity:

The can clearly states that it's precooked and can be opened, sliced, and eaten cold. BUT ... if you want it warm/hot, they want you to bake it for an hour at 325 degrees, and check it with a meat thermometer for 165 degrees. If it's already fully cooked ... what difference does it make?

Because once you open the can, you expose it to the outside world. If you eat it cold, you're eating it before the new bacteria can do anything. If you warm it up but not all the way, you could be growing new bacteria but not killing it.

I'm guessing that would be the theory, but I'm also guessing it's like a one in a billion shot that you'd get even a wicked case of the tummy rumbles because you didn't cook you're precooked meat all the way.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: Hawkmoon on March 20, 2019, 03:42:43 PM
But if I store it in the refrigerator, it's exposed to germs and such. They don't say I have to bake it for an hour each time I want to slice off some leftovers.

I just wondered if it might be some lawyer's required liability avoidance thing, such as an iron bar carrying a warning that "This product may contain substances considered by the State of California to be carcinogenic" [when consumed by laboratory mice in quantities that would choke a large horse].


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on March 20, 2019, 03:56:48 PM
But if I store it in the refrigerator, it's exposed to germs and such. They don't say I have to bake it for an hour each time I want to slice off some leftovers.

I just wondered if it might be some lawyer's required liability avoidance thing, such as an iron bar carrying a warning that "This product may contain substances considered by the State of California to be carcinogenic" [when consumed by laboratory mice in quantities that would choke a large horse].

Sweetie, the reason we store food cold in the refrigerator is so bacteria doesn't grow in it.

Warm environment grows bacteria. Cold environment doesn't. 


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: BobR on March 20, 2019, 05:37:34 PM
I am just wondering if this thread will age as long and as well as the ham.  ;)

bob


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: Firethorn on March 21, 2019, 09:37:08 AM
Sweetie, the reason we store food cold in the refrigerator is so bacteria doesn't grow in it.

Warm environment grows bacteria. Cold environment doesn't. 

Cold still does, just slower.  There are bacteria that will still grow at like 2C.  But it takes like 100x as long for them to double at that temp, so you have days/weeks rather than hours.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: Mike Irwin on March 21, 2019, 10:55:17 AM
The true problem with long-term storage of things like this is that cold does absolutely nothing to stop enzymatic action, which can lead to seriously compromised quality over time.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: BobR on March 21, 2019, 11:11:18 AM
The true problem with long-term storage of things like this is that cold does absolutely nothing to stop enzymatic action, which can lead to seriously compromised quality over time.


Which is why I will wet age my briskets that I purchase still in the cryovac. I give then 4-6 weeks (depending on pack date, max of 6 weeks from packing) in the fridge to let the enzymes present do their thing to tenderize the meat a little.

bob


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on March 21, 2019, 12:32:12 PM
Cold still does, just slower.  There are bacteria that will still grow at like 2C.  But it takes like 100x as long for them to double at that temp, so you have days/weeks rather than hours.

yes, I know. You can't leave it forever because eventually it will start growing *expletive deleted*it, but, for the purposes of this discussion, I am as right as I need to be.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: cordex on March 21, 2019, 01:06:07 PM
for the purposes of this discussion, I am as right as I need to be.
No, I think you missed Hawkmoon's point entirely.  He was talking about the strange recommendation to be sure to cook the canned ham through to 165 degrees internal temperature when it is okay to eat straight out of the can.  He compared that to refrigerated leftovers which people do not typically cook as though were raw. 

In both cases you have something that is safe to eat cold so you would not expect to have to worry about reaching a specific internal temperature for either.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: Hawkmoon on March 22, 2019, 07:51:01 AM
No, I think you missed Hawkmoon's point entirely.  He was talking about the strange recommendation to be sure to cook the canned ham through to 165 degrees internal temperature when it is okay to eat straight out of the can.  He compared that to refrigerated leftovers which people do not typically cook as though were raw. 

In both cases you have something that is safe to eat cold so you would not expect to have to worry about reaching a specific internal temperature for either.

Thank you for understanding the question.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: cordex on March 22, 2019, 10:12:51 AM
Thank you for understanding the question.
Sure thing sweetie.


Title: Re: 25 year old frozen ham
Post by: Mike Irwin on March 23, 2019, 02:51:12 AM
Sure thing sweetie.

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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