Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Ben on December 22, 2018, 10:12:56 AM
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Looks like they went to "partial shutdown".
The first thing I did after I saw it went into effect is looked up the Federal pay periods, because "800,000 Federal employees and their families will be starving over Christmas".
It appears the last pay period ended today (if I can still read the calendars correctly), so feds haven't even gotten their pay for the previous period yet. With a new pay period starting, there is already a two week buffer in which this thing will likely be over, so about a 90% chance employees will see no effect other than extra paid days off. The only ones getting "screwed" will be essential employees who have to work instead of getting paid vacation.
During the Obama shutdown, I went fishing and got paid for it. My next paycheck after the shutdown ended was like three days short, due to where the shutdown and the pay period aligned. The three days, IIRC, were added in a special electronic deposit a few days later.
It'll be interesting to see what is done with National Parks, etc. I think Trump kept them open earlier this year for that one day or whatever shutdown?
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The VA is fully funded so it is business as usual for the VA employees.
bob
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My understanding is this only directly affects a small part of the govt that is not already funded by other means. Yeah, we will see.
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Yeah, I just saw they said "25%". I can't remember the numbers on the previous shutdowns, but 25% sounds pretty freakin' low. At that percentage, it shouldn't even be called a shutdown.
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Homeland and DOT are both affected. Several others too, but they're probably the largest two agencies not funded currently.
1) Excepted employees still must come to work. Yeah, that means I'll be vectoring for IOU's Christmas day.
2) Senate passed a resolution last night to packpay furloughed workers.
3) For once I agree with the Democrats. Trump had 2 years to get this done. The GOP didn't have the will to do it. Freedom Caucus shows up in the White House on Thursday morning, calls him a pussy for not standing up for the wall, and here we are. The Senate's spending bill was voted for unanimously.
4) Yes it's about 25% of the gov't that is affected.
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I still say if they're nonessential, stop bringing them back after these things.
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I still say if they're nonessential, stop bringing them back after these things.
;/ Nice soundbite.
I guess nobody will be around to run payroll, register aircraft, document plans and procedures?
Just a few examples of "nonessentials" in the FAA.
There's lots of things we could do without the Government doing. I'm down with that. But the fact is, the government has wrested control of these things from the states or the people, and you won't be getting them back anytime soon. The majority of voters are too stupid to even consider taking power back from the fed.gov.
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CNBC is reporting that the VP has helped broker a deal in the Senate.
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/video/schumer-pence-mcconnell-reach-deal-221400146.html
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;/ Nice soundbite.
I guess nobody will be around to run payroll, register aircraft, document plans and procedures?
Just a few examples of "nonessentials" in the FAA.
There's lots of things we could do without the Government doing. I'm down with that. But the fact is, the government has wrested control of these things from the states or the people, and you won't be getting them back anytime soon. The majority of voters are too stupid to even consider taking power back from the fed.gov.
Somebody needs a Snickers for Christmas.
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Somebody needs a Snickers for Christmas.
I noticed yesterday that Buc-cees has started selling 50 cent mini-candy bars (different from the Halloween minis). Jamis has moved out of the Buc-cees service area though.
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Working Christmas day for IOU's with no actual promise of being paid (only past precedent) does make one a little grouchy.
Adjourned today until after Christmas.
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I'm proud of Trump for agreeing to take credit for the shut-down. It may have been his finest moment, in an administration with a surprisingly high number of fine moments, considering.
Here's something odd. People are saying that Trump was willing to "take the mantle" for the shut-down. I guess people think taking the mantle means taking the blame. Nobody reads the Bible, I guess.
Also odd - that reining in government for a few hours or days is a worse crime than failing on border control or wasting tax monies.
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*Yawn*
[Rolls over and goes back to sleep]
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I'm proud of Trump for agreeing to take credit for the shut-down. It may have been his finest moment, in an administration with a surprisingly high number of fine moments, considering.
Didn't last very long...
The Democrats now own the shutdown!
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i wrote this , last yr i think
(http://)
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Well, I still wouldn't even be aware of the "shutdown" if not for news reports . . . which actually seem to be a bit less breathless and apocalyptic than during the last few shut downs.
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So, typical NBC article with the "people are going to die because the parks shut down!" text and "sad kid" images.
However, did anyone else, while they were reading this, think, "How are slobs the government's fault?" So now we have to have hall monitors everywhere to force people to behave? We can't just teach good behavior as the default?
Also, maybe there's a reg as to why they can't, but if you ARE going to keep the parks open, and you have to have minimum essential personnel there anyway because the park is open, I think a good argument could be made that a gate person is essential, and then you can also keep collecting money. It seems they're getting an extra influx of people because entry is free right now. Likely some of the "bad actors" wouldn't be there if they had to pay the $40 to get in.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/shutdown-nightmare-park-bathrooms-overflowing-human-waste-vandals-causing-damage-n953406
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So, typical NBC article with the "people are going to die because the parks shut down!" text and "sad kid" images.
However, did anyone else, while they were reading this, think, "How are slobs the government's fault?" So now we have to have hall monitors everywhere to force people to behave? We can't just teach good behavior as the default?
Also, maybe there's a reg as to why they can't, but if you ARE going to keep the parks open, and you have to have minimum essential personnel there anyway because the park is open, I think a good argument could be made that a gate person is essential, and then you can also keep collecting money. It seems they're getting an extra influx of people because entry is free right now. Likely some of the "bad actors" wouldn't be there if they had to pay the $40 to get in.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/shutdown-nightmare-park-bathrooms-overflowing-human-waste-vandals-causing-damage-n953406
Well, at least now we know when the democrats go to parks.
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Yep, when it's Free. After all they are members of the FSA for the most part...
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Well, I still wouldn't even be aware of the "shutdown" if not for news reports . . . which actually seem to be a bit less breathless and apocalyptic than during the last few shut downs.
Because essential personnel are required to come in. If it was a true shut down, i'd be on furlough, and they'd be no ATC service available.
Then the entire nation would notice. Real quick.
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Because essential personnel are required to come in. If it was a true shut down, i'd be on furlough, and they'd be no ATC service available.
Then the entire nation would notice. Real quick.
Which is why these half-ass shutdowns on some non-essential services only never really accomplish anything besides political statements from both sides. If they managed to have a real, full shutdown, I expect it wouldn't last more than 48 hours.
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Because essential personnel are required to come in. If it was a true shut down, i'd be on furlough, and they'd be no ATC service available.
Then the entire nation would notice. Real quick.
Did you get furloughed during the last one (2013?) I remember the media throwing a fit but not much else. Reservists didn't have drill that month.
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Did you get furloughed during the last one (2013?) I remember the media throwing a fit but not much else. Reservists didn't have drill that month.
I wasn't with the FAA at the time.
My understanding is that NY facilities dug in and made flying miserable for a few days.
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Well, almost a week since my last post on this topic, and I still wouldn't even be aware of the shutdown if not for the news coverage . . .
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Well, almost a week since my last post on this topic, and I still wouldn't even be aware of the shutdown if not for the news coverage . . .
Me too. Who cares.
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I have absolutely no idea what I'm walking into tomorrow with my customer. They provide essential services, but many of the people I work with may very well be furloughed.
For me it's business as usual as we're funded for at least a couple of months.
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Well here's one way that the government shutdown is having an effect:
E-Verify and E-Verify services are currently unavailable due to a lapse in government appropriations.
:facepalm:
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https://fox8.com/2019/01/03/irs-wont-issue-tax-refunds-during-government-shutdown/
Got em by the balls, if Trump doesn't blink. Play it right and Pelosi is to blame for the free *expletive deleted*it checks not going out on time.
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Gotta wonder who will blink first, Ds or Trump. I would think the Ds have the most to lose as they are the ones who won't come to the table.
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The D’s passed a budget that the Senate won’t even vote on. 🤦♂️
Working for IOUs now.
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The D’s passed a budget that the Senate won’t even vote on. 🤦♂️
Working for IOUs now.
Of course they did. Gesture politics.
Just like when the Republicans voted 422,000 times every day to overturn Obamacare, until they actually had the power to do so, when they choked so *expletive deleted*ing hard they looked like a snuff film star.
Expect more of the same in the coming days.
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I think the next few days will be a major decision point.
Again, if I remember my pay periods right, the current pay period ends tomorrow, so fed employees are still technically unaffected (pay-wise) as everything is the same as if there wasn't a shutdown. Pay wouldn't be distributed normally until like next Thursday or Friday. If the shutdown ends by Monday or Tuesday, there's still enough time for OPM to process timesheets and get everyone paid on time.
If the shutdown goes beyond Tuesday, that's when the time will start that employees will not be getting paid, at least until the shutdown is over. While many APS members may be saying "so what?", within the gov, I think that will be a point where the R's will want to start compromising more to end the shutdown, because they're going to start being afraid of political backlash.
Right now, with this kind of partial shutdown, it's pretty unnoticeable and no one has yet been really affected (other than people like Jamis - non-furloughed essential employees who might be having to put in extra hours, etc.). Once the dems can actually start proving (versus just saying, as they have been now) that "people are being hurt", that's when the R's will start to waffle because of optics and will want Trump to hurry up and compromise. JMO.
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I think the next few days will be a major decision point.
Agreed. With the holidays, the pay period timing, and a few departments coasting on miscellaneous funds into this week there just hasn't been any pressure on either side - about the only reason for Trump to compromise earlier was the more favorable house numbers and the Dems would obviously want to hold out until they had the majority. Even the media has been half-assing the coverage. The pressure will increase a bit next week but I still think it could go through the rest of this month before it really starts getting taken seriously and an agreement is reached that everyone hates (but both sides will pretend they won).
I'm just hoping someone at the BATFE is still going in to review & approve my FFL03 application. =)
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and an agreement is reached that everyone hates (but both sides will pretend they won).
That's exactly what will happen.
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That's exactly what will happen.
Well, if a normal Republican were in charge, I'd expect a full cave that gets the Democrats what they want and the Republicans a promise that we'll do it next time, REALLY!
With Trump in a position to veto, I'm expecting at least that the Democrats will hate it too. (I note that Trump has already accepted a "but we'll take care of the wall NEXT TIME, really!" last year. I'm watching to see if he takes that bait again, like most Republicans.)
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Well, if a normal Republican were in charge, I'd expect a full cave that gets the Democrats what they want and the Republicans a promise that we'll do it next time, REALLY!
With Trump in a position to veto, I'm expecting at least that the Democrats will hate it too. (I note that Trump has already accepted a "but we'll take care of the wall NEXT TIME, really!" last year. I'm watching to see if he takes that bait again, like most Republicans.)
I fully expect some "wall" funding. Maybe $1-2 billion. Trump will say he won, even if dems add language about surveillance versus barriers, social programs, etc. If Trump gets even a mile of "wall", he will call it a win.
The Dems will call it a win even if Trump gets "wall" money because all the money won't be spent on physical barriers, and even if Trump builds 500 miles of wall, there will be some money for some kind of "[illegal] immigrant safety funding" (like medical funding at detention centers or whatever), which means they "took on Trump and won!"
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There was better than 1.5 billion already in the appropriation as border security funding that could have been applied to a wall, but Trump demanded $5 billion to get the process moving forward instead of shuffling it down the pike.
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I'm just hoping someone at the BATFE is still going in to review & approve my FFL03 application. =)
Treasury is part of the shutdown. I know the IRS is on minimal staffing, with 7 out of 8 employees furloughed. Not sure how that will affect refunds as not many folks are filing yet.
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I think the next few days will be a major decision point.
Again, if I remember my pay periods right, the current pay period ends tomorrow, so fed employees are still technically unaffected (pay-wise) as everything is the same as if there wasn't a shutdown. Pay wouldn't be distributed normally until like next Thursday or Friday. If the shutdown ends by Monday or Tuesday, there's still enough time for OPM to process timesheets and get everyone paid on time.
If the shutdown goes beyond Tuesday, that's when the time will start that employees will not be getting paid, at least until the shutdown is over. While many APS members may be saying "so what?", within the gov, I think that will be a point where the R's will want to start compromising more to end the shutdown, because they're going to start being afraid of political backlash.
Just for the record, assuming everyone else is on the same schedule as DOD civilians, we got paid yesterday, the 3rd, for the Pay Period that ended on 22 Dec 18. time cards for that pay period were supposed to be turned in on (at our agency) Dec 20th, and the pay was cut in OPM's system on no later than the 26th. Which is a long way of saying that those checks should have gone out on time, as they were out of the "closed" agencies hands and into parts of the .gov with funding before the partial shutdown.
The pay date for the next Pay Period (20181222-20190105) is 17 Jan. That's when the first checks will hit, or not, for the furloughed and IOU workers. No one's actually missed a paycheck yet.
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The pain will not be applied where it needs to be applied.
The pain will be applied where it will hurt the President and the right the most.
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The pay date for the next Pay Period (20181222-20190105) is 17 Jan. That's when the first checks will hit, or not, for the furloughed and IOU workers. No one's actually missed a paycheck yet.
Ah, okay. It's been a while. For some reason I was thinking deposits were made a week after the pay period ends.
So that actually gives them even more time to waffle around and it won't be until the following week that time will be too short to issue paychecks on time (I think).
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Ah, okay. It's been a while. For some reason I was thinking deposits were made a week after the pay period ends.
So that actually gives them even more time to waffle around and it won't be until the following week that time will be too short to issue paychecks on time (I think).
Officially, (and maybe in practice at DOD) that is the official pay date. But at USDA (and USS last-job at NOAA (Commerce)) we generally get paid 1 week after pay period end. That said, we won't have room to complain officially until the official pay date which is the 17th as Dogmush described.
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Officially, (and maybe in practice at DOD) that is the official pay date. But at USDA (and USS last-job at NOAA (Commerce)) we generally get paid 1 week after pay period end. That said, we won't have room to complain officially until the official pay date which is the 17th as Dogmush described.
Okay, I was remembering right then. I remember now we got paid through USDA finance center. DOD must be on a different schedule for electronic deposits.
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Seems the IRS won't be able to process tax refunds until after the shutdown is over.
Again, it's a shame that they just don't furlough everyone. When the planes can't fly that would put a *expletive deleted*ing end to this bullshit.
Correct on pay periods. Although my "in lieu of" holiday for Christmas Eve was saturday after the shutdown, so my paycheck didn't include that. Tuesday the 15th will be the first day without a paycheck.
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Just what all is effected now and in coming days, weeks by this shutdown?
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Just what all is effected now and in coming days, weeks by this shutdown?
Homeland, Treasury and FAA are the biggest that could have an effect on the day to day lives. HuD perhaps, which will affect home buying especially.
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Seems the IRS won't be able to process tax refunds until after the shutdown is over.
Again, it's a shame that they just don't furlough everyone. When the planes can't fly that would put a *expletive deleted*ing end to this bullshit.
Correct on pay periods. Although my "in lieu of" holiday for Christmas Eve was saturday after the shutdown, so my paycheck didn't include that. Tuesday the 15th will be the first day without a paycheck.
Too bad they don't seem to have trouble processing payroll tax deductions.
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The “ermagawd no refunds!” only affects the FSA, delaying them “getting back” $8k despite not having worked all year
The rest of us who work for a living won’t see our w-2s for a while anyway
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Regarding taxes. The IRS wasn't going to begin to accept returns until either 15 or 31 Jan. I disremember which.
And in regards to the FSA. Any returns with Earned Income Credit, Child Tax Credit, Additional Child Tax Credit, and/or Child and Dependent Care Credit, will NOT receive refunds until after 15 Feb. So the FSA will have to wait.
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On the way home, a story on NPR was about people who cannot buy a house because the FHA is not in business to process loans.
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Because my last shift when the shutdown happened was a midnight shift, I received a partial paycheck of $200 for this pay period. Officially working for IOUs.
Trump is going to lose any chances he had with federal workers over this shut down.
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On the way home, a story on NPR was about people who cannot buy a house because the FHA is not in business to process loans.
Why in the world should the federal gov process home loans??? That should go away.
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Why in the world should the federal gov process home loans??? That should go away.
Should it go away? Yes. Lots of what the fed.gov should go away. But it never will.
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Because my last shift when the shutdown happened was a midnight shift, I received a partial paycheck of $200 for this pay period. Officially working for IOUs.
Trump is going to lose any chances he had with federal workers over this shut down.
Yes, because sooooooo many of them voted for him the first time....https://www.politico.com/2016-election/results/map/president/district-of-columbia/
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Yes, because sooooooo many of them voted for him the first time....https://www.politico.com/2016-election/results/map/president/district-of-columbia/
Oh I agree the majority vote D. I work with a lot of them.
I think he's hoping this will put pressure on the D's to cave. But I promise you the asshats I work with who vote D will never vote R.
Instead, though, my anecdotal "boots on the ground" take is many of my R and I coworkers are disgruntled with Trump and would vote for a moderate D over him in a heartbeat at this point.
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Oh I agree the majority vote D. I work with a lot of them.
I think he's hoping this will put pressure on the D's to cave. But I promise you the asshats I work with who vote D will never vote R.
Instead, though, my anecdotal "boots on the ground" take is many of my R and I coworkers are disgruntled with Trump and would vote for a moderate D over him in a heartbeat at this point.
And most of them would have voted for a "moderate" D over him in the first place.
Of course, every D will lie and say they area "moderate" and then push the leftist agenda of open borders, "healthcare for all!", high taxes, and increased regulation.
But at least they will call them "moderate" positions.
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Oh I agree the majority vote D. I work with a lot of them.
I think he's hoping this will put pressure on the D's to cave. But I promise you the asshats I work with who vote D will never vote R.
Instead, though, my anecdotal "boots on the ground" take is many of my R and I coworkers are disgruntled with Trump and would vote for a moderate D over him in a heartbeat at this point.
One can be disgruntled with Trump, but again (JMO), if the dems offered Trump half the $5 billion he's asking for, he would call it a win and agree to it. The dems are refusing to even negotiate, but those "asshats" (and I worked with them too) are not and will never be disgruntled with the dems refusing to budge.
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One can be disgruntled with Trump, but again (JMO), if the dems offered Trump half the $5 billion he's asking for, he would call it a win and agree to it. The dems are refusing to even negotiate, but those "asshats" (and I worked with them too) are not and will never be disgruntled with the dems refusing to budge.
Yep, Trump offered to "reopen" the government, if Nancy would allow Border Security within 30 days, and she said "NO". It's not Trump being intransigent, but the Dems.
I mean we've only been promised Border Security by Congress since the 1986 Amnesty.
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if the dems offered Trump half the $5 billion he's asking for, he would call it a win and agree to it.
Maybe. He originally asked for $1.6 and Senate Appropriations put in $1.6, then he upped it and things ground to a halt.
Seems kind of hard to predict what he's willing to accept now as the number keeps going up.
if Nancy would allow Border Security within 30 days
What does that even mean?
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Oh I agree the majority vote D. I work with a lot of them.
I think he's hoping this will put pressure on the D's to cave. But I promise you the asshats I work with who vote D will never vote R.
Instead, though, my anecdotal "boots on the ground" take is many of my R and I coworkers are disgruntled with Trump and would vote for a moderate D over him in a heartbeat at this point.
Trump's not my favorite CinC, but it's pretty clear that a bunch of American's want stronger border security, and a wall, Trump was elected in a large part on a promise to build a wall, and he said for the better part of a year that he would not sign a spending bill that didn't include funding for that promise.
Congress had almost two years to figure out how to give funding for that project, that again, a large portion of Americans elected representatives to do, or gather enough votes to override the President's veto power. Congressional leaders could do neither. In fact, as far as I can tell, Trump hasn't actually vetoed anything as Congress can't even get a bill through both houses.
This issue is Congress's fault, and blaming Trump for actually keeping his word, even if you disagree with it, is incorrect IMO.
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Oh I agree the majority vote D. I work with a lot of them.
I think he's hoping this will put pressure on the D's to cave. But I promise you the asshats I work with who vote D will never vote R.
Instead, though, my anecdotal "boots on the ground" take is many of my R and I coworkers are disgruntled with Trump and would vote for a moderate D over him in a heartbeat at this point.
Well, the most prominent moderate D I know of was John McCain, and he was hiding out in the GOP. So for moderate D's with some national recognition that leaves Collins and Murkowski . . . nobody else really comes to mind.
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Maybe. He originally asked for $1.6 and Senate Appropriations put in $1.6, then he upped it and things ground to a halt.
Seems kind of hard to predict what he's willing to accept now as the number keeps going up.
I'll revise my numbers down. If they were to come back with, "We'll accept your original $1.6 billion", he'll take it, call it a win, and say, "This was my negotiating tactic. That's the number I wanted and I asked for more as a bargaining tool because otherwise the dems wouldn't have given me anything."
Especially now that it's the day before Federal payday.
I'd certainly prefer something like this instead of "emergency powers" which seems his only other alternative for a quick end. I don't like presidents of either party using emergency powers so liberally. I complained when Obama did the "phone and pen" thing, and it's only fair that I complain if Trump does the same thing.
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Looks like even some Trump haters are asking why shutdowns are always the fault of Rs, never the fault of Ds:
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2019/01/10/media-take-note-if-you-have-ethics-brit-hume-shares-epic-thread-on-govt-shutdown-from-a-man-with-no-use-for-trump/
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I'll revise my numbers down. If they were to come back with, "We'll accept your original $1.6 billion", he'll take it, call it a win, and say, "This was my negotiating tactic. That's the number I wanted and I asked for more as a bargaining tool because otherwise the dems wouldn't have given me anything."
Especially now that it's the day before Federal payday.
I'd certainly prefer something like this instead of "emergency powers" which seems his only other alternative for a quick end. I don't like presidents of either party using emergency powers so liberally. I complained when Obama did the "phone and pen" thing, and it's only fair that I complain if Trump does the same thing.
While I agree that "Phone and Pen" thing are "not good"tm. Maybe having Trump use them like Obama did will get Congress to go " umm, hey. Maybe we need to re-think the powers we give to executive branch, and put some limits on them. As it stands I heard that Emergency Powers have been used 38 times and 31 of them are still in effect.
Plus, Congress needs to start doing their damn jobs. Just going back to you constitutants and saying "I stopped the other side", maybe talk about how you worked together to solve problems.
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Protesting at the White House, but not where Pelosi and Schumer hide out. Partisan jackwagons, doing the opposite of what they did during the Obama shutdown.
https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2019/01/10/furloughed-federal-workers-protest-trumps-shutdown-one-sign-reads-my-landlord-is-calling-already/
Oh, and the only way your landlord is calling, jackass, is if you didn't use your check from 28DEC to pay your rent on 01JAN.
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We were in front of the House today freezing our asses off. Overall it was pretty non partisan, except when DeFazzio spoke he went a little "orange man bad". And mentions of Mitchey-poo got a lot of boos for refusing to take a vote on appropriations.
Half a dozen cameras there but this is the only article I've found so far.
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/01/federal-workers-protest-the-government-shutdown.html
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I think he ought to up the ante. Refuse to sign anymore continuing resolutions, just a proper budget.
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https://www.msnbc.com/velshi-ruhle/watch/federal-workers-protest-government-shutdown-in-d-c-1423577667562?fbclid=IwAR0YB2Dfs8eGYlMD-mX7EyTuS6B7Lnux2xeDJ3Y59_7LWiwQKBZvcGvjruM
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I figured today would be the day things get more serious, but apparently congress packed up and went home for the weekend at COB yesterday.
That's kind of an opening for Trump to do the "emergency" thing, which I still don't like, because:
"I'm declaring a health care emergency and implementing single payer"
"I'm declaring a gun violence emergency and banning semi-auto firearms"
"I'm declaring a climate emergency and mandating a 100% tax on fossil fuels"
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I figured today would be the day things get more serious, but apparently congress packed up and went home for the weekend at COB yesterday.
That's kind of an opening for Trump to do the "emergency" thing, which I still don't like, because:
"I'm declaring a health care emergency and implementing single payer"
"I'm declaring a gun violence emergency and banning semi-auto firearms"
"I'm declaring a climate emergency and mandating a 100% tax on fossil fuels"
Yes and no. I expect the democrats will challenge in court. If they win and it gets quashed, that sets some serious precedent on limiting Presidential powers. One of the few times I'm rooting for the D's to win in court.
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Yes and no. I expect the democrats will challenge in court. If they win and it gets quashed, that sets some serious precedent on limiting Presidential powers. One of the few times I'm rooting for the D's to win in court.
Me too. While I've been thanking Harry Reid a lot over the last two years (mostly out of schadenfreude), at some point I'm going to be cursing him.
Same with stuff like Presidential emergency powers, phone and pen, etc. These are all short term solutions that do more harm than good in the long run. Emergency powers especially, need to be clearly defined.
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Emergency powers especially, need to be clearly defined.
First, there must be an emergency. A gradually (or even progressively) escalating problem that the .gov has actively participated in creating over the course of decades does not qualify as an "emergency" IMHO.
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Obama declared an emergency over a flu virus. In fact he declared 12 emergencies, and we're under 31 given what past presidents have declared. I should think the current border situation should qualify if a flu virus does.
OTOH, it does make one a bit cynical of .... "emergencies." THIRTY ONE emergencies? ? ? ? [tinfoil]
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Folks, I don't watch the news- can one of you please tell me what Trump is trying to get? 1.6 billion or whatever isn't enough to fund The Wall.???
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Folks, I don't watch the news- can one of you please tell me what Trump is trying to get? 1.6 billion or whatever isn't enough to fund The Wall.???
His latest “opening offer” is 5 billion.
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He went from $25billion to $5.7. Chuck and Nancy went from $1.6 to zero.
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He went from $25billion to $5.7. Chuck and Nancy went from $1.6 to zero.
That's not correct.
The president’s February budget request for fiscal 2019 asked Congress for $1.6 billion for construction of 65 miles of “new border wall system in southern Texas.” Subsequently, Homeland Security officials indicated the White House was looking for $2.2 billion in a hearing on Capitol Hill, which House GOP lawmakers included in a larger immigration and border security package that was defeated in that chamber.
Then, Trump floated the higher $5 billion figure in a meeting with congressional Republicans in June, which became what passes for a formal request. But it was never accompanied by a “budget amendment” submitted to Congress, which is the typical practice for administrations after they identify new funding needs during the year.
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I figured today would be the day things get more serious, but apparently congress packed up and went home for the weekend at COB yesterday.
That's kind of an opening for Trump to do the "emergency" thing, which I still don't like, because:
"I'm declaring a health care emergency and implementing single payer"
"I'm declaring a gun violence emergency and banning semi-auto firearms"
"I'm declaring a climate emergency and mandating a 100% tax on fossil fuels"
If it worked that way, Obama would have banned semi-autos a few years ago.
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An argument for the state of emergency.
https://ricochet.com/587567/declare-national-border-emergency-kill-two-birds-with-one-stone/
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https://news.yahoo.com/air-traffic-controllers-union-sues-over-unpaid-during-182600191.html
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While I continue to lean towards "it takes two to tango" regarding this dragging out, I do give Trump credit for sticking it out at the White House all weekend waiting to talk to someone. Most of Congress went home for a long weekend on Thursday. A select subset including some of the loudest mouths, went to Puerto Rico to party. Ironically to a "Hispanic Caucus PAC" shingdig.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/democrats-fly-to-puerto-rico-amid-ongoing-government-shutdown
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I'm not entirely buying the two to tango thing. This is almost entirely on the Dems. They have promised border security and immigration fixes in the past and never followed through. In 1986 Reagan signed the amnesty based on this promise, then the Dems reneged on their promise. There was a bill passed in 2006 mandating a border fence, the Dems keep blocking budget for it. The Dems will not negotiate in good faith if Trump accepts their current proposals, so he really has no choice but to wait for them to allocate budget for physical barriers on the border. If he just accepts what they want now, then they will never add budget for it and we will end up right back here again. And no he couldn't do it when he had the house and senate(he never really had the senate, if you don't have 60 reliable votes you don't really control the senate.)
I feel bad for those that might be experiencing financial issues with the shutdown, but I've had the same happen to me in the private sector with unpaid forced vacations. Except I had to work and never got paid for it, not really legal, but emergencies come up and if you want to keep your job you do what you got to do; government employees will actually get paid in the end. Government employees should be focusing on the Dems in Congress with their ire.
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Government employees are under constant “Orange Man Bad” conditioning even moreso than the typical consumer of media propaganda.
Their social standing and livelihood could be endangered if they are too vocal supporting Trump OR blaming the Democrats.
It is very oppressive working in overtly progressive establishments if you are a person on the right. You have to tread lightly lest you be considered “problematic” or subversive and they question your team loyalty.
I’m sure there are a small minority of Trumpsters in the bureaucracy but they probably aren’t trumpeting that fact at work.
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Government employees should be focusing on the Dems in Congress with their ire.
I agree with that.
I'm actually surprised that Trump, King of the attack Twitter, hasn't done tweets this morning in the vein of "Welcome back dems, from the luxury vacations you took this weekend while gov employees go without pay!" Of course no one seemed to care that Congess all took off over the holidays either. Pelosi hung out in the most expensive resort in Hawaii and that was cool. If Trump would have done similar, the fed unions would have been up in arms.
Not that it will sway most gov employees though. In my ~20 years, I learned that dems can commit murder and the majority of fed.gov employees will still support them and blame a Republican for the murder. Outside of the military and some specific agencies, I would say that runs about 80%/20%.
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Government employees should be focusing on the Dems in Congress with their ire.
I blame the GOP for not getting the wall built when they had full control.
I blame the dems for refusing any meaningful negotiations.
I blame the American people for voting for idiots, morons, sexual predators and greedy pols.
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https://dailycaller.com/2019/01/14/smoke-out-resistance/
Here's a perspective (purportedly from an administration official) that without the bureaucrats actively sabotaging things, more of the President's agenda is getting done during the "shutdown".
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How did air traffic controllers get tossed in the non-essential bucket?
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How did air traffic controllers get tossed in the non-essential bucket?
They're not. They're in the same bucket as the USCG: essential and unpaid.
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CBP and ICE are also working with no pay right now. I honestly haven't paid any attention to whether all of DHS is working right now
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How did air traffic controllers get tossed in the non-essential bucket?
We're essential. Which means working without pay. However, a lot of our support staff are controllers on assignment, and unless they're "current" in the operation they're furloughed.
DHS and Treasury are both unfunded as well. That means all DHS is working without pay along with SS.
So our Union filed a lawsuit over being unpaid and required to work. They requested an expedited hearing against the Government over it, and it's expected that tomorrow the restraining order against uncle sam will be granted by the judge in the case (he indicated in the first hearing that it was a very strong case). A couple possible outcomes
1) Immediate paid status for all essential personnel.
2) Pay status at federal minimum wage
3) The most interesting one to me, and the one I hope, is that the judge rules we cannot be required to work in a non pay status. By the governments rules we would all go on furlough just like everyone else. That would shut the National Airspace System down. I'd expect the shutdown to be over by the end of that day...
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VFR flying baby!
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We're essential. Which means working without pay. However, a lot of our support staff are controllers on assignment, and unless they're "current" in the operation they're furloughed.
DHS and Treasury are both unfunded as well. That means all DHS is working without pay along with SS.
So our Union filed a lawsuit over being unpaid and required to work. They requested an expedited hearing against the Government over it, and it's expected that tomorrow the restraining order against uncle sam will be granted by the judge in the case (he indicated in the first hearing that it was a very strong case). A couple possible outcomes
1) Immediate paid status for all essential personnel.
2) Pay status at federal minimum wage
3) The most interesting one to me, and the one I hope, is that the judge rules we cannot be required to work in a non pay status. By the governments rules we would all go on furlough just like everyone else. That would shut the National Airspace System down. I'd expect the shutdown to be over by the end of that day...
This is what should have happened from the start. I'm as good a small l libertarian as the next guy, but I'm sick of people I know on FB running with the "keep the gov shut down, I haven't even noticed " meme. No *expletive deleted*it Sherlock, they didn't actually close anything you would notice.
If we're going to do a shut down, do it. Then we can decide for real how much we need the feds.
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All essential personal should be paid if they are on the job.
Working = paid
Not working = not paid
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One good result of the shutdown in the Chicago area is a noticeable reduction in the amount of traffic. It makes for a much nicer commute. It's the same way on federal holidays that aren't commonly a holiday for the private sector, Columbus Day, Arbor Day, etc.
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Interesting undercurrent that no one in Washington has been talking about.
I am reading that federal workers that have been furloughed for 30 days are eligible for RIF.
I don't know if this is part of the plan of dragging out the shutdown, but laying off hundreds of thousands of Democrats would be a fun exercise.
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Yep. Only the President should be blamed, nothing to do with the Dems that won’t even show up to talk...
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/425425-democrats-turn-down-white-house-invitation-for-shutdown-talks?amp
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Interesting undercurrent that no one in Washington has been talking about.
I am reading that federal workers that have been furloughed for 30 days are eligible for RIF.
I don't know if this is part of the plan of dragging out the shutdown, but laying off hundreds of thousands of Democrats would be a fun exercise.
LOL that would be entertaining, since Treasury, Homeland, FAA are on the list. Yeah RIF all the controllers out see how that goes...or all of the secret service employees... :facepalm:
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Yep. Only the President should be blamed, nothing to do with the Dems that won’t even show up to talk...
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/425425-democrats-turn-down-white-house-invitation-for-shutdown-talks?amp
I was about to post that. Apparently Pelosi is screeching "Not one single dollar!" and Schumer is saying, "Open the gov and we'll talk". That's sorta like "We've got to pass it to find out what's in it."
This particular thing falls squarely and 100% on the dems, but Trump will get 100% of the blame.
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This is what should have happened from the start. I'm as good a small l libertarian as the next guy, but I'm sick of people I know on FB running with the "keep the gov shut down, I haven't even noticed " meme. No *expletive deleted*it Sherlock, they didn't actually close anything you would notice.
If we're going to do a shut down, do it. Then we can decide for real how much we need the feds.
We lost on the TRO today. Judge's response was typical activism, refusing to give a ruling from the law and or constitution.
Said only the Congress can appropriate funds, and that furloughing all the controllers would be dangerous.
This *expletive deleted*it's going to drag on now for awhile.
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I was about to post that. Apparently Pelosi is screeching "Not one single dollar!" and Schumer is saying, "Open the gov and we'll talk". That's sorta like "We've got to pass it to find out what's in it."
This particular thing falls squarely and 100% on the dems, but Trump will get 100% of the blame.
Bull. The GOP had 2 years to get the wall built. There's more than enough blame to go around.
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Bull. The GOP had 2 years to get the wall built. There's more than enough blame to go around.
I'm talking about refusing to attend this meeting. Hence, "This particular thing". :)
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I'm talking about refusing to attend this meeting. Hence, "This particular thing". :)
I big part does sit with them. But as said, the GOP and Trump had two years to do this and choose not to. The only reason it's a thing is because they sat around with their thumbs up their ass.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
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Bull. The GOP had 2 years to get the wall built. There's more than enough blame to go around.
No they didn’t and you know that. They didn’t have 60 votes in the Senate.
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I'm talking about refusing to attend this meeting. Hence, "This particular thing". :)
Ah.
IMHO the Dems have the stronger position here. The congress and senate passed spending bills before the shutdown, and before the Dems took office, that the President veto'd. Why should they negotiate?
The President's only out at this point is to declare the state of emergency, have the DoD start building the wall, and see what happens in court.
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No they didn’t and you know that. They didn’t have 60 votes in the Senate.
No, they didn't have the balls to exercise the nuclear option.
Conversely, I'd bet if they nutted up they could get a veto proof majority in both houses for a budget and end this stalemate.
Plenty of blame to float around.
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Bull. The GOP had 2 years to get the wall built. There's more than enough blame to go around.
No elected official really wants the wall, they all want cheap exploitable labor.
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No, they didn't have the balls to exercise the nuclear option.
Conversely, I'd bet if they nutted up they could get a veto proof majority in both houses for a budget and end this stalemate.
Plenty of blame to float around.
No, they would not have done that. I don't think Paul Ryan wanted a wall or any sort of immigration reform. And when it came down to it, the spending bill they passed in early 2018 had all sort of extra spending and anti-wall language in it to get it past the 60 vote threshold in the Senate. One of the biggest problem is people think Republicans are all behind Trump's agenda when they should know dang well they were not.
As for the nuclear option, I don't think that is a great idea. A bunch of people were ridiculing the former Democrat Senate Majority leader for getting rid of that allowing Kavanah to be confirmed. I really don't want the Democrats having an easy road to pass legislation if they get a majority in the future. Especially when I am not sure what Republicans would actually pass.
IMO, it is supposed to be hard to pass new legislation and we should not wipe that out just because it is convenient to get what we want.
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I really don't want the Democrats having an easy road to pass legislation if they get a majority in the future.
Exactly.
"Obstructionism" is a far more important tool for conservatives than it is for liberals. Weakening those tools helps Democrats more in the long run.
Same thing applies to the "National Emergency" route to bypass congress.
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Exactly.
"Obstructionism" is a far more important tool for conservatives than it is for liberals. Weakening those tools helps Democrats more in the long run.
Same thing applies to the "National Emergency" route to bypass congress.
IMO, the "national emergency" stuff doesn't even sound constitutional.
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IMO, the "national emergency" stuff doesn't even sound constitutional.
It was passed as a bill in maybe ‘74 or ‘76 something like that. I don’t particularly like it, but passed by Congress and signed by President so unfortunately almost certainly constitutional.
Now as for the wall, one of the federal governments only enumerated duties in the constitution is protecting the borders as long as we have laws saying how people may immigrate they need to follow those laws. Walls or physical barriers work to slow the flow of people crossing illegally. Obviously not by themselves, but they do work. Unless Dems or Republicans want to offer a serious option and no an electronic fence isn’t serious they need to buck up and build the damn wall already. Or just change the law and let everyone in. One or the other.
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It was passed as a bill in maybe ‘74 or ‘76 something like that. I don’t particularly like it, but passed by Congress and signed by President so unfortunately almost certainly constitutional.
Now as for the wall, one of the federal governments only enumerated duties in the constitution is protecting the borders as long as we have laws saying how people may immigrate they need to follow those laws. Walls or physical barriers work to slow the flow of people crossing illegally. Obviously not by themselves, but they do work. Unless Dems or Republicans want to offer a serious option and no an electronic fence isn’t serious they need to buck up and build the damn wall already. Or just change the law and let everyone in. One or the other.
I just don't think it is constitutional for Congress to gift the President more powers just with a new law.
However, no one seems to worry about limited Govt anymore. Getting to the point we might as well start electing dictators.
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I read an interesting article yesterday about the huge amount of eminent domain seizures that would be necessary in order to build along the entire border. I can't find it at the moment . . . . .
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I read an interesting article yesterday about the huge amount of eminent domain seizures that would be necessary in order to build along the entire border. I can't find it at the moment . . . . .
I have heard that could be an issue also. I also heard there were a few leftists who bought land on the border for the purpose to trying to tie it up in court.
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I read an interesting article yesterday about the huge amount of eminent domain seizures that would be necessary in order to build along the entire border. I can't find it at the moment . . . . .
I read that in some cases, plans are to build the wall not ON the border, but WELL INSIDE our border. Up to half a mile or more INSIDE our border. :facepalm:
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Well, it's costing the economy real money now.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/2019/01/15/delta-ceo-government-shutdown-costs-25-million-lost-business/2576031002/
https://abcnews.go.com/beta-story-container/Politics/damage-inflicted-shutdown-shaves-off-projected-us-economic/story?id=60404103
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Yeah, this is where the money part starts to get more interesting. Short partial shutdowns don't usually end up having any real dollar cost.
When you've gone this long, you start getting backlogs that have to be made up for. Also, I guarantee you the National Park Service will get at least a $25 million plus up in the 2020 budget to pay for damage, repairs, extra maintenance, etc. incurred from slobs in all the parks we've been reading about. As one example. I'm sure there are a bunch of agencies that will get extra budget dough (i.e., taxpayer dollars) to cover things, whether real or made up, from the extended shutdown.
One small interesting thing I noted, and I don't know if correlation = causation, is that I sent in my 4th quarter estimated taxes to the IRS over two weeks ago, and the check still hasn't cleared. That usually only takes a few days from when I drop it in the mail. What will be interesting is if they are in fact holding off on processing estimated taxes and then I find myself with a late penalty because the taxes were not processed before the tax deadline (15JAN).
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Yeah, this is where the money part starts to get more interesting. Short partial shutdowns don't usually end up having any real dollar cost.
When you've gone this long, you start getting backlogs that have to be made up for. Also, I guarantee you the National Park Service will get at least a $25 million plus up in the 2020 budget to pay for damage, repairs, extra maintenance, etc. incurred from slobs in all the parks we've been reading about. As one example. I'm sure there are a bunch of agencies that will get extra budget dough (i.e., taxpayer dollars) to cover things, whether real or made up, from the extended shutdown.
One small interesting thing I noted, and I don't know if correlation = causation, is that I sent in my 4th quarter estimated taxes to the IRS over two weeks ago, and the check still hasn't cleared. That usually only takes a few days from when I drop it in the mail. What will be interesting is if they are in fact holding off on processing estimated taxes and then I find myself with a late penalty because the taxes were not processed before the tax deadline (15JAN).
Even a short one does cost money, because furloughed workers are always back paid, but work isn't done, resulting in degradation of service to the taxpayer plus overtime usage to catch up.
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Even a short one does cost money, because furloughed workers are always back paid, but work isn't done, resulting in degradation of service to the taxpayer plus overtime usage to catch up.
That's true, though I think the overtime thing varies. I wasn't allowed overtime at my level except for emergency response, but certainly used some comp time to catch up.
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https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jan/15/laura-loomer-sets-up-illegal-immigrant-sanctuary-o/
Activist Laura Loomer sets up illegal immigrant 'sanctuary' on Nancy Pelosi's lawn
=D
Ms. Loomer and her “amigos” reportedly from Mexico and Guatemala are seen in the video jumping over a small wall at Mrs. Pelosi’s Napa home and setting up a white tent on the lawn painted with the word “immorality.”
“Nancy is a very rich Democrat, and she believes that everyone is welcome here, and sanctuary is a human right,” Ms. Loomer said in the video.
She could at least have picked up 3 amigos.
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No elected official really wants the wall, they all want cheap exploitable labor.
Not just the labor, but the Social Security fraud to pad that particular ponzi scheme. Even if the guy claims exempt, there's still the employer portion that goes to the IRS under the fraudulent SS number.
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^^^I have read elsewhere that illegals contribute millions of dollars per year to Social Security that will never be collected as benefits by them.
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https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jan/15/laura-loomer-sets-up-illegal-immigrant-sanctuary-o/
Activist Laura Loomer sets up illegal immigrant 'sanctuary' on Nancy Pelosi's lawn
=D
She could at least have picked up 3 amigos.
One could say this protest actually proves the dem adage that "walls don't work . . . ."
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^^^I have read elsewhere that illegals contribute millions of dollars per year to Social Security that will never be collected as benefits by them.
Yeah. I’ve read that too, but at the same time SS is supposed to be running out of money so is it really that much?
It wasn’t a perfect solution, but GW Bush to be fair as much as I disliked him did try to push for real fixes to SS. Some of the you split between your own private SS account and the Public Kitty May have worked to some extent. Not perfect, but would have been a step in the right direction.
Not to derail the thread too much, but he also tried to address the housing loan kerfuffle that spurred the recession and the Dems and Media all poopood his warnings then blamed him for the recession when what he said came true. Lest we forget he was also stupid, shrub, and BushHitler. None of this stuff with Trump is really new. Although he was only BushHitler not literally Hitler, so I guess that is new.
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Not just the labor, but the Social Security fraud to pad that particular ponzi scheme. Even if the guy claims exempt, there's still the employer portion that goes to the IRS under the fraudulent SS number.
"Exempt" only applies to income taxes. You still get nailed on the 6.2% FICA (SS) and 1.45% Medicare employee portions. There's not getting out of those.
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Yeah. I’ve read that too, but at the same time SS is supposed to be running out of money so is it really that much?
It wasn’t a perfect solution, but GW Bush to be fair as much as I disliked him did try to push for real fixes to SS. Some of the you split between your own private SS account and the Public Kitty May have worked to some extent. Not perfect, but would have been a step in the right direction.
Not to derail the thread too much, but he also tried to address the housing loan kerfuffle that spurred the recession and the Dems and Media all poopood his warnings then blamed him for the recession when what he said came true. Lest we forget he was also stupid, shrub, and BushHitler. None of this stuff with Trump is really new. Although he was only BushHitler not literally Hitler, so I guess that is new.
There's still a lot of "you're not smart enough to manage your own money" in this article, but it talks about Galveston County's retirement
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/18/us/how-privatized-social-security-works-in-galveston.html
It's wildly successful. County employees there retire in much better shape than most of America.
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Democrats canceled State of the Union address 😄
They probably came up with that idea while vacationing on the beach in Porta Rico
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I heard a suggestion that if the SOTU is canceled, Trump should rent a big stadium somewhere and hold his own rally/State of the Union. It would be epic.
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https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/01/trumps_shutdown_trap.html
In only five more days of the already "longest government shutdown in history" (25 days and counting, as of today), a heretofore obscure threshold will be reached, enabling permanent layoffs of bureaucrats furloughed 30 days or more.
Read more: https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/01/trumps_shutdown_trap.html#ixzz5csHd5byV
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook
Looks interesting, but I really doubt it will happen.
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I heard a suggestion that if the SOTU is canceled, Trump should rent a big stadium somewhere and hold his own rally/State of the Union. It would be epic.
I find it interesting that Pelosi is doing this "because shutdown". That says she expects the shutdown to still be in place on 29JAN. Doesn't sound like someone who wants the gov opened back up.
Also "security concerns" is extremely laughable.
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https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/01/trumps_shutdown_trap.html
Looks interesting, but I really doubt it will happen.
Oh, that would be AMAZING!!! Here's hoping! :O
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I find it interesting that Pelosi is doing this "because shutdown". That says she expects the shutdown to still be in place on 29JAN. Doesn't sound like someone who wants the gov opened back up.
Also "security concerns" is extremely laughable.
Because the Dems have two calculations at play here:
1) federal workers are mostly democrats and a core constituency that won't switch sides (Trump froze federal pay this year as well)
2) they cannot hand Trump a win on the wall, as it's one of his major campaign promises.
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I read the article on the Galveston plan. Solely from the standpoint of managing the plan's assets, I would also eliminate withdrawal as a lump sum if the lump sum is over a set amount. Periodic payments or annuity only. Not from the perspective of retirees not managing their money well, but to avoid a run on the fund.
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https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/01/trumps_shutdown_trap.html
Looks interesting, but I really doubt it will happen.
I've heard this from a few people. But looking at the list of agencies from this shut down, what's there to really cut? rif'ing a few tens of thousands of federal employees is a drop in the bucket.
People get wrapped up in the "non essential" bullshit.
Would you like to know what kind of non essential stuff isn't being done in my agency right now?
Aircraft and aircrew Inspections
Aircraft registrations
Commercial drone waivers
Procedures and airspace work
That's just the tip of the iceberg.
Let me tell you a little story:
IAD built a third runway a few years back. As part of the modernization of our equipment and procedures, we've been in the process of revamping all the instrument arrivals approaches to take full advantage of this. We expected to have it completed by the end of this year. These procedures would give us the ability to maintain a high arrival rate under almost all circumstances with less personnel needed to do so. It will save airlines time and money.
That project is now halted and will fall months behind schedule. At the same time, UAL is planning to increase traffic to IAD. Metro is full steam ahead on the IAD line that will connect IAD to DC via light rail/metro, which is expected to increase passenger counts for IAD. Other airlines are looking at increasing flights to IAD.
The people who were spearheading that work on our end are either deemed "non essential" and on furlough, or were controllers on detail who've been kicked back to the operation.
I know there are plenty of federal employees who *expletive deleted*ck about most of the day and don't do any real work. The idea that Trump knows exactly who they are, and has a master plan to rif out the lazy and useless ones is laughable.
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Because the Dems have two calculations at play here:
1) federal workers are mostly democrats and a core constituency that won't switch sides (Trump froze federal pay this year as well)
2) they cannot hand Trump a win on the wall, as it's one of his major campaign promises.
Agree that those are two of their primary considerations. At some point I'm thinking they are going to overplay that hand. Right now I think it's still 50/50, or leaning a bit more to "Trumps fault" than theirs in public opinion. The longer this goes, especially with dems doing "obstruction" stuff, this could start running much more to "dems fault". Especially if Trump holds the SOTU*. There's another caravan of several thousand on their way up here, the timing of which could coincide with the SOTU. Depending on how Trump presents the SOTU, that could really increase "pro wall" (or pro multi-faceted border security) public opinion. It could force the dems to the table.
On the RIF stuff, I think that's a little dangerous. It could really backfire on Trump. IIRC, there was an "early retirement" option offered during Clinton. I can't remember if it coincided with that shutdown or was offered outside that. I know a lot of feds that would jump at an early retirement option that froze or disappeared their FTEs after they left. It would be a minor outlay of cash that reducse govt with little backlash. Admittedly it's a drop in the bucket.
Though Jamis (posted while I was typing) makes a good point: How do you weed out the slackards? The people I know that would take an early retirement mostly actually do good and necessary work. They would leave just to get away from the bullshit. Most of the slackards are slackards in real life as well, and couldn't afford to take an early retirement. They've got a good thing and know they would have a hard time getting a good job elsewhere, because they're slackards.
About the only way to RIF is to look at places like the EPA and eliminate entire program offices, versus picking and choosing employees. Which wouldn't really be a RIF, and also wouldn't weed out the good employees from the bad.
* He should absolutely hold the SOTU on time, in the Senate. All Senators and some of their guests get a seat. Other available seating goes to House reps by seniority. As the House is "the People's House" I find it interesting that a speaker even has the authority to refuse a President the SOTU, simply because they don't like him. "The People" have the right to hear what he has to say.
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I've heard this from a few people. But looking at the list of agencies from this shut down, what's there to really cut? rif'ing a few tens of thousands of federal employees is a drop in the bucket.
People get wrapped up in the "non essential" bullshit.
Would you like to know what kind of non essential stuff isn't being done in my agency right now?
Aircraft and aircrew Inspections
Aircraft registrations
Commercial drone waivers
Procedures and airspace work
That's just the tip of the iceberg.
Let me tell you a little story:
IAD built a third runway a few years back. As part of the modernization of our equipment and procedures, we've been in the process of revamping all the instrument arrivals approaches to take full advantage of this. We expected to have it completed by the end of this year. These procedures would give us the ability to maintain a high arrival rate under almost all circumstances with less personnel needed to do so. It will save airlines time and money.
That project is now halted and will fall months behind schedule. At the same time, UAL is planning to increase traffic to IAD. Metro is full steam ahead on the IAD line that will connect IAD to DC via light rail/metro, which is expected to increase passenger counts for IAD. Other airlines are looking at increasing flights to IAD.
The people who were spearheading that work on our end are either deemed "non essential" and on furlough, or were controllers on detail who've been kicked back to the operation.
I know there are plenty of federal employees who *expletive deleted*ck about most of the day and don't do any real work. The idea that Trump knows exactly who they are, and has a master plan to rif out the lazy and useless ones is laughable.
If there were cuts to be made, I doubt it would be targeted too much. I don't think Trump would get into the details that much and I bet something targeting slackers would be attacked in courts. I would also be curious if he could go after departments or programs not affected by the shutdown.
I really doubt it would happen in any meaningful way, but it would be amusing if he did even if it was just a handful of people. Even better if he targeted executive level people and their assistants.
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If there were cuts to be made, I doubt it would be targeted too much. I don't think Trump would get into the details that much and I bet something targeting slackers would be attacked in courts. I would also be curious if he could go after departments or programs not affected by the shutdown.
I really doubt it would happen in any meaningful way, but it would be amusing if he did even if it was just a handful of people. Even better if he targeted executive level people and their assistants.
That's probably where meaningful cuts to the bureaucracy could be made. Numbers wise that wouldn't be that many people.
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I wonder if Trump instead of for the wall could use national emergency declaration to direct payment to essential employees. DHS, TSA, Air Traffic Controllers, etc.? That would probably mean we’d we wouldn’t have much in the way of shutdowns anymore of course. Or better give incentive to remove that power?
To be honest though I don’t think we should have a DHS, I don’t believe anything really improved after 9/11 from adding more government. Also TSA and Air Traffic Controllers should not be Federal employees. Sure Federal standards, licensing, monitoring or whatever. I may be missing something, but is there a direct benefit to these being Federal employees vs employees of the airports?
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I wonder if Trump instead of for the wall could use national emergency declaration to direct payment to essential employees. DHS, TSA, Air Traffic Controllers, etc.? That would probably mean we’d we wouldn’t have much in the way of shutdowns anymore of course. Or better give incentive to remove that power?
To be honest though I don’t think we should have a DHS, I don’t believe anything really improved after 9/11 from adding more government. Also TSA and Air Traffic Controllers should not be Federal employees. Sure Federal standards, licensing, monitoring or whatever. I may be missing something, but is there a direct benefit to these being Federal employees vs employees of the airports?
Only Congress has the power to appropriate funds. If he declared a border emergency, he could direct the military to build the wall as they've had funds appropriated. The shutdown agencies have no funds appropriated. Hell, we just lost our TRO hearing and one of the arguments the judge made was that only congress can appropriate funds and he couldn't order congress to pay us.
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Only Congress has the power to appropriate funds. If he declared a border emergency, he could direct the military to build the wall as they've had funds appropriated. The shutdown agencies have no funds appropriated. Hell, we just lost our TRO hearing and one of the arguments the judge made was that only congress can appropriate funds and he couldn't order congress to pay us.
I’m pretty sure Obama used a National emergency declaration to shift funds for the Zika Virus.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/powerpost/wp/2016/08/11/obama-administration-to-shift-81-million-to-fight-zika/
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I’m pretty sure Obama used a National emergency declaration to shift funds for the Zika Virus.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/powerpost/wp/2016/08/11/obama-administration-to-shift-81-million-to-fight-zika/
Which were already appropriated to that agency.
If he ordered the military to do the wall, he'd need to divert funds already appropriated to DoD from other projects.
The President cannot take funds from the treasury and give them to an agency. Only Congress can.
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Interesting. In response to Pelosi's SOTU thing, Trump pulled the plug at the last minute on military transport that was supposed to be wheels up right now to take Pelosi and friends on a multi-day, multi-country tour.
Which begs the question: If Pelosi really wants to end the shutdown, why is she leaving the country for multiple days?
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2019/01/17/two-can-play-that-game-donald-trump-calls-nancy-pelosis-shutdown-bluff-in-a-yuge-way-screenshot/
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Interesting. In response to Pelosi's SOTU thing, Trump pulled the plug at the last minute on military transport that was supposed to be wheels up right now to take Pelosi and friends on a multi-day, multi-country tour.
Which begs the question: If Pelosi really wants to end the shutdown, why is she leaving the country for multiple days?
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2019/01/17/two-can-play-that-game-donald-trump-calls-nancy-pelosis-shutdown-bluff-in-a-yuge-way-screenshot/
She doesn't want to end it. She wants Trump to concede.
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https://www.mediaite.com/trump/shock-poll-trump-gains-19-points-with-latino-voters-during-border-wall-shutdown/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Shock Poll: Trump Gains 19 Points with Latino Voters During Border Wall Shutdown
That is an astonishing 19 point swing. Prior results had less variance, with Latino approval numbers at 36% in their November 1st findings. It was 27% in the pollster’s mid-October survey.
I am not sure past Republican leadership let it go long enough to get polling data.
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The RIF plan, while it may not be "YUGE!!!" might be enough. Anything to slim down .gov is a good thingtm.
That the thing about Trump, he always seems to, not only have a card up his sleeve, but he's willing to play it, when in the past other R's played by "the rules".
and Yes, I think Trump should do the SOTU whether via TV from the Oval Office (It would be short and sweet) or at a stadium full of supporters (Longer due to the applause, etc.) It should be down to show that Pelosi can't stop Trump.
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Well Trump made an offer on TV. Surprised it's not been brought up here.
Thoughts on Trump's speech yesterday?
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Well Trump made an offer on TV. Surprised it's not been brought up here.
Thoughts on Trump's speech yesterday?
I caught it. I thought it was mostly real compromise (at least the DC version), because it had stuff that would make both sides unhappy. :laugh:
While I guess I could live with the DACA stuff, the thing that bothered me about both it and the "more judges" stuff was the numbers. 800,000 DACA recipients. 900,000 backlogged immigration cases (which I assume are mostly illegals waiting to see if they can stay or not). That's just a couple of examples of the number of people (or their parents) sneaking into the country. The real numbers have to be huge.
I would have guessed Trump would come out with a lower number for physical barriers, but he still used the ~$5 billion number. That might still be a negotiation tactic, and I believe he'll lower it if he ever gets a counter from the dems.
Mostly interesting was Pelosi releasing the "no deal" statement before he even laid out his proposal. I think this was another incident where Trump looked willing to compromise and the dems looked like the obstructionists. In the last week, IMO, Trump has been winning on strategy. Though his "winning" seems to make the dems even less willing to talk.
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Mostly interesting was Pelosi releasing the "no deal" statement before he even laid out his proposal. I think this was another incident where Trump looked willing to compromise and the dems looked like the obstructionists. In the last week, IMO, Trump has been winning on strategy. Though his "winning" seems to make the dems even less willing to talk.
It's pretty clear to me they don't intend to negotiate. They still want him to open the government so they can negotiate after the fact. :rofl:
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It's pretty clear to me they don't intend to negotiate. They still want him to open the government so they can negotiate after the fact. :rofl:
^^^ Exactly.
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Mostly interesting was Pelosi releasing the "no deal" statement before he even laid out his proposal. I think this was another incident where Trump looked willing to compromise and the dems looked like the obstructionists. In the last week, IMO, Trump has been winning on strategy. Though his "winning" seems to make the dems even less willing to talk.
Agreed. I don't think this alone is going to move the needle much in public opinion but if he can keep talking up this offer, maybe make a different one next week and actually look like a "deal-maker" while the Dems just keep preemptively scream NO then he's going to eventually work his way out of the hole he initially dug himself into.
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Maybe Trumps latest speech wasn’t for the public at large but a specific segment of the public.
My brother in law is 2nd gen from Mexico, when I see him I’ll ask him if he thinks that speech was a good move to persuade Americans of Mexican descent.
His opinion will be somewhat biased I’m sure, he was in the Marines and is a MAGA man.
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I'm very disappointed I didn't get anything I wanted for RIFmas...
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I'm very disappointed I didn't get anything I wanted for RIFmas...
RIFmas? Is that like Fitzmas?
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RIFmas? Is that like Fitzmas?
Yesterday was 30 days into the shutdown and all furloughed workers were eligible for "Reduction In Force", a nice way of saying "fired".
Come on, we elected the man most famous for saying "You're Fired" and he doesn't jump at that chance? SOOOO disappointed.
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Yesterday was 30 days into the shutdown and all furloughed workers were eligible for "Reduction In Force", a nice way of saying "fired".
Come on, we elected the man most famous for saying "You're Fired" and he doesn't jump at that chance? SOOOO disappointed.
Trump isn't some small government messiah. He's only doing this for the wall.
After all, he isn't the guy that ran on closing down unnecessary agencies...that guy was mocked and laughed at.
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Trump isn't some small government messiah. He's only doing this for the wall.
After all, he isn't the guy that ran on closing down unnecessary agencies...that guy was mocked and laughed at.
I detect no lies here.
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Trump isn't some small government messiah. He's only doing this for the wall.
After all, he isn't the guy that ran on closing down unnecessary agencies...that guy was mocked and laughed at.
And then he accepted a cabinet post over one of those agencies. =|
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Trump is reasonably in tune with the rights zeitgeist, spirit of the age.
His success is dependent on staying “in tune” as well as leading the right forward.
Yes, it’s that bad, Trump is the only real leader on the right.
He’s doing ok though, I’m way more enthusiastic now than I was in 16.
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OPM and the administration are beginning to take it out on the employees.
An unsigned OPM memo has begun circulating telling management to mark anyone who calls in sick as AWOL.
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Do you know the difference between an unsigned memo and toilet paper?
Toilet paper has at least one use.
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This is not okay.
https://abcnews.go.com/beta-story-container/Politics/coast-guard-deployed-middle-east-pacific-pay-government/story?id=60566995
Oh and OPM completely reversed the unsigned memo. We now have guidance that is more liberal than the guidance before the unsigned memo. It's perplexing and points to chaos in the administration. They have no *expletive deleted*ing idea how to manage the shutdown.
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I think we just hit maximum stupid
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2019/01/24/puts-on-tinfoil-hat-david-hogg-strikes-again-this-time-with-a-theory-on-the-real-reason-behind-the-government-shutdown/
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Are there lines of credit open to all government workers impacted by the shut down?
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Are there lines of credit open to all government workers impacted by the shut down?
Nope. Depends on bank to bank.
And the idea that government workers should have to take out loans to cover their bills while working for the most powerful nation on the face of the earth is the most *expletive deleted*ing absurd thing I've heard in my life. The Government literally prints the money.
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All this just goes to show if it's "too big to fail" it absolutely cannot be part of the government.
Remember the push a couple years back to privatize airport security? I bet all the government security functionaries wish they had supported that a little more at this point.
My life keeps getting better and better every day government is cancelled and the rest of the actual taxpaying public realize they're better off with fewer government teat suckers. Makes people ask hard questions, like "how would you go about providing air traffic control, to be resistant or immune to a government shutdown?"
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Huff Po: The Longest Government Shutdown Ever Is Making Civil Service Less Attractive (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-shutdown-success-making-civil-service-less-attractive_us_5c46127ae4b027c3bbc461bb)
Beautiful.
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All this just goes to show if it's "too big to fail" it absolutely cannot be part of the government.
Remember the push a couple years back to privatize airport security? I bet all the government security functionaries wish they had supported that a little more at this point.
My life keeps getting better and better every day government is cancelled and the rest of the actual taxpaying public realize they're better off with fewer government teat suckers. Makes people ask hard questions, like "how would you go about providing air traffic control, to be resistant or immune to a government shutdown?"
If air traffic services were actually shut down you’d *expletive deleted*ing know it
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Well, Trump negotiated down to what I was guessing he would do -- taking a a lesser amount for barriers. He called it a "downpayment", which should have been good strategically for the dems, because it could have reopened the gov, and then they could have stalled/fought on any money above the "downpayment".
Pelosi told him to get stuffed. This really should be called the Pelosi shutdown at this point.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/white-house-large-down-payment-on-wall-could-end-government-shutdown
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If air traffic services were actually shut down you’d *expletive deleted*ing know it
Well, other than it being all over the news I wouldn't anticipate and immediate effect on my day to day life.
I haven't flown since early 2001 and a temporary delay of *expletive deleted*it I don't really need coming 2nd day from Amazon isn't going to leave any lasting emotional scars.
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Well, Trump negotiated down to what I was guessing he would do -- taking a a lesser amount for barriers. He called it a "downpayment", which should have been good strategically for the dems, because it could have reopened the gov, and then they could have stalled/fought on any money above the "downpayment".
Pelosi told him to get stuffed. This really should be called the Pelosi shutdown at this point.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/white-house-large-down-payment-on-wall-could-end-government-shutdown
Schumer shot down the bill to pay the USCG.
Trump started it, but the dems own it.
I honestly believe Trump would take a reasonable compromise. The Dems refuse to give him a wall of any kind, and don't give a *expletive deleted*ck who's hurt in the process.
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And that dirty socialist tramp from NY was the only dem to vote against opening the government. ;/
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Makes people ask hard questions, like "how would you go about providing air traffic control, to be resistant or immune to a government shutdown?"
There was a pretty good plan to do just that put forward. I supported it because it would also return power to the workforce. Under current federal law we're not allowed to strike or take other organized work actions.
Trump actually supported it, too.
It died in committee. Seems that the GOP doesn't want to divest the government of full control.
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I honestly believe Trump would take a reasonable compromise.
Yup. Whatever else you can say about the guy, his whole shtick on this is the same as buying a piece of real estate - offer and counter-offer.
The dems are refusing the negotiations, and thinking about it more, they are really shooting themselves in the foot about it. Were they to sign off on the "downpayment", it could actually help them a few years down the road. The downpayment amount isn't enough to cover more than a few strategic areas. They've got a "gimme" for a few years down the road to say, "See! Walls don't work!" because people will still be getting through unsecured geographic gaps that need a barrier.
Also, the Trump admin is getting all the heat for "fed employees need food banks to survive" and Pelosi, et. al. somehow seem to be Teflon on that. Which is a bit hypocritical because they're the ones supposedly "standing up for the employees". If the employees are that important, then sign off on a couple of billion dollars (which many on the dem side are apparently okay with). It's a drop in the bucket of money spent on stuff like lobsters on treadmills.
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https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2019/01/24/fun-fact-house-democrats-defeated-a-bipartisan-bill-to-pay-federal-workers-during-the-shutdown-n2539969
The article that preceded the above also has some interesting points and ideas:
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2019/01/23/will-pelosi-ever-get-to-yes-on-ending-the-shutdown-or-is-she-fixated-on-total-victory-over-trump-n2539901
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Well the pressure just ratcheted up today. You can only *expletive deleted*it on people so long.
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I hear that New Yawk is having problems [popcorn]
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Oh look! A distraction! And maybe a little pressure on Trump?
And CNN just happened to be there when the FBI showed up at Stone's door.
Roger Stone Has Been Arrested
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2019/01/25/roger-stone-n2540236
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I hear that New Yawk is having problems [popcorn]
And PHL
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Jamis,
Thinking about some of your comments: How many layers of supervisions/management are between you and a cabinet post in the Administration? I have a feeling that number is high, but I don't know.
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Jamis,
Thinking about some of your comments: How many layers of supervisions/management are between you and a cabinet post in the Administration? I have a feeling that number is high, but I don't know.
Me personally? A lot. The shortest route? Controller>supervisor>operational manager>facility manager>District manager>ATO COO>Deputy Administrator>Administrator
So thinking more about this there's some oddities that don't add up.
congressional bill for backpay said excepted employees would be charged leave.
Then a few days ago, OPM guidance in an unsigned memo comes down saying that managers should consider punitive action for calling out sick.
Then, wed the OPM does a full 180 and reverses that memo, and goes further to say that excepted employees who take time off should be considered in furlough (which means uncharged for leave, back paid at base rate for those days off)
We receive very liberal guidance from the agency on leave usage
And then the bills get voted down yesterday.
Like it's a calculated move to encourage us to take sick leave.
I've seen news reports of small airports with 0 TSA workers showing up.
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Also, to reiterate how serious (yes, I'm being facetious) everyone is for ending this, apparently once again 90% of Congress went home last night for another three day weekend.
The ATC problems may be a wake-up though. In the last couple of hours, I've been blasted with more news of airport delay stories than all the TSA worker stories combined since the shutdown.
I also saw 14,000 IRS workers called in sick.
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Also, to reiterate how serious (yes, I'm being facetious) everyone is for ending this, apparently once again 90% of Congress went home last night for another three day weekend.
What happens when they can't fly back to DC because there aren't any ATCs? >:D
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What happens when they can't fly back to DC because there aren't any ATCs? >:D
:laugh:
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What happens when they can't fly back to DC because there aren't any ATCs? >:D
I don't think they've started leaving yet.
See my above chain of events.
I don't give extra credit unnecessarily to the administration. They *expletive deleted*ck up a lot. But damn if the sudden reversal doesn't make you think.
Saw a news story at least one smaller airport had 0 TSA workers show up today.
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14,000 IRS workers didn't show up today.
airport delay list is growing.
All of the sudden, there's a deal on the table being hammered out.
3 week CR > negotiations over further funding > declaration of emergency if he doesn't get his way.
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14,000 IRS workers didn't show up today.
airport delay list is growing.
All of the sudden, there's a deal on the table being hammered out.
3 week CR > negotiations over further funding > declaration of emergency if he doesn't get his way.
More evidence that if you want to have a shutdown, have a real damn shutdown. This would have all been concluded in 72 hours or less.
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More evidence that if you want to have a shutdown, have a real damn shutdown. This would have all been concluded in 72 hours or less.
Hell, the ATC delays were marginal too. I've seen worse for thunderstorms. And I'm on board for real shutdowns. No excepted employees. Everyone goes home. Hell, I'll even go without backpay for that.
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Deal reached. Not signed yet.
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From what I can see, there is zero barrier funding in this deal, which seems to leave three alternatives:
1) Another partial shutdown as Pelosi continues to say "no" over the three week period.
2) No more shutdowns and Trump caves on the wall, because Pelosi will never say "yes".
2A) Another partial shutdown starts, but Trump caves.
3) Emergency powers used for the wall.
I don't really like any of those alternatives. I'd love to see some dems rise up and give Pelosi a smack down, but I don't think it will happen. I'm curious if there will be a SOTU on 29JAN.
Edit: Also, ironically, it appears that estimates for the cost of the shutdown are right around $5 billion. Why does that number sound familiar? ;/
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.@SpeakerPelosi asked if she’d now be open to a deal that included wall $. "Have I not been clear on the wall? No, I've been very clear on the wall."
"Hopefully, the President has learned his lesson," says @SenSchumer
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.@SpeakerPelosi asked if she’d now be open to a deal that included wall $. "Have I not been clear on the wall? No, I've been very clear on the wall."
"Hopefully, the President has learned his lesson," says @SenSchumer
Jesus, in 3 weeks it will be a *expletive deleted*it show, guaranteed.
bob
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Jesus, in 3 weeks it will be a *expletive deleted*it show, guaranteed.
bob
Let us miss a couple paychecks again and see how it goes... they started shitting kittens this morning and the surface was barely scratched.
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What happens when they can't fly back to DC because there aren't any ATCs? >:D
feature, not bug
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*expletive deleted*ck.
He's going to have the DOD build it. For *expletive deleted*s sake.
There's no way he'd cave on this and be a chump on his one major campaign promise.
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*expletive deleted*ck.
He's going to have the DOD build it. For *expletive deleted*s sake.
There's no way he'd cave on this and be a chump on his one major campaign promise.
He can declare an emergency, but where does he get the money to build anything? Does the DoD have that much discretionary funds not part of the budget they are fighting over?
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Cancel an F35.
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.@SpeakerPelosi asked if she’d now be open to a deal that included wall $. "Have I not been clear on the wall? No, I've been very clear on the wall."
"Hopefully, the President has learned his lesson," says @SenSchumer
Boy, Schumer is a real @$$.!!!!
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He can declare an emergency, but where does he get the money to build anything? Does the DoD have that much discretionary funds not part of the budget they are fighting over?
Do you really think those toilet seat, coffee cups, hammers, etc cost 500-1000 dollars a pop? ;)
bob
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Do you really think those toilet seat, coffee cups, hammers, etc cost 500-1000 dollars a pop? ;)
bob
Unfortunately yes
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Do you really think those toilet seat, coffee cups, hammers, etc cost 500-1000 dollars a pop? ;)
Of course not, but that money got diverted to the secret research facility in Area 51. If we defund that, how will we defend ourselves when the aliens* attack?
*extraterrestrials, not the other kind.
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Of course not, but that money got diverted to the secret research facility in Area 51. If we defund that, how will we defend ourselves when the aliens* attack?
Area 51 is common knowledge now. Now it is being used to fund a tiny section in NW Nevada, doesn't even have a name, they just call it restricted airspace on the charts. ;)
bob
*extraterrestrials, not the other kind.
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First, the Independence Day references are money
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Damnit wrong file
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Of course not, but that money got diverted to the secret research facility in Area 51. If we defund that, how will we defend ourselves when the aliens* attack?
Space Wall!!!!!
*extraterrestrials, not the other kind.
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:rofl: :rofl:
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:rofl: :rofl:
Not to be a party pooper, but I don't think federal employees did themselves any favors with the going to food banks a day after the first missed check went by, or by complaining that they didn't have the money for gas to get to work.
At a current average salary of around $80K/yr, they make more dough than the average American. $50K/yr people who work in the private sector, where they can be fired or laid off at a drop of a hat, can't sympathize with stuff like that.
Anyone, whether gov or private sector, that can't make it through one missed paycheck without hitting the food bank and having to walk there because their car is out of gas, is likely living above their means. They need to cut out the cable or use a dumb phone instead of an iPhone X or something until they have a few hundred to a few thousand dollars in an emergency fund.
Most gov employees have credit cards. They could have used those for food or gas for a couple of weeks (just as they'd likely be doing without the shutdown), since unlike private sector employees, they knew they were getting paid at some point to pay back the card. Also they had the option to take an interest free TSP loan. Even if they don't contribute to TSP, the gov does for them, so only an under one year employee would have less than a few hundred dollars in the account. Most are going to have thousands to tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars in their TSP that they could have used to buy groceries or make a house payment. Once you get your back pay, put the dough back in the TSP - it's practically seamless. Though lenders, utilities, etc. were giving fed employees breaks on due dates of their bills that no one in the private sector gets if they are laid off.
So while it's never cool to be expected to work without pay or be furloughed, the fed employees* that made the news did not do fed employees in general any favors. I guess they made good soundbytes for liberal politicians, but none of that endeared them to working people in general.
*I'll caveat the USCG here. While they are actually in general paid well (and have TSP), I know newbie enlisted in the USCG don't make much money until they move up to around E-3.
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Oh I fully agree. That was a bad look. Our union hammered on degrading safety because of work not being done on equipment, programs being halted, etc. We are now over 2 months behind on projects that were supposed to be completed this FY. Modernization and upgrades the airlines desperately want done.
It was also fully intentional on the part of the media. They searched out the people who really couldn't miss a paycheck, or were willing to play the victim card.
This is also why the real breaking point was the second missed paycheck with the senate voting no on both of those bills. All indications were that it would be another 30 days, because the house and senate were entering a home-work period. Most were headed back to their districts this weekend. Our union's lead legislative rep didn't expect any movement for 30 more days.
And being expected to work for eventual backpay? *expletive deleted*ck that. That's a dick move on the government. They get their cake and to eat it, too.
Shut it down all the way next time or not at all. These fake shutdowns are bullshit.
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Oh I fully agree. That was a bad look. Our union hammered on degrading safety because of work not being done on equipment, programs being halted, etc. We are now over 2 months behind on projects that were supposed to be completed this FY. Modernization and upgrades the airlines desperately want done.
In fact I'll bet you dollars to donuts, very little of that kind of stuff makes it into the MSM, and adding it all up across agencies, it'll be a lot of dough. It's also something that might be more sympathized with by average Americans, because their taxes have to pay for that.
Instead, the MSM focused on the TSA people hired off the back of pizza boxes. Which was also funny, because the lefty MSM usually attacks (in many ways rightly, IMO) TSA. Yet throughout the shutdown, they were the heroes of the people.
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https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/18/few-americans-have-enough-savings-to-cover-a-1000-emergency.html
Perhaps this does not apply to APS members, but 60% of Americans cannot cover a $ 1000 emergency bill.
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https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/18/few-americans-have-enough-savings-to-cover-a-1000-emergency.html
Perhaps this does not apply to APS members, but 60% of Americans cannot cover a $ 1000 emergency bill.
Most people do live paycheck to paycheck.
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https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/18/few-americans-have-enough-savings-to-cover-a-1000-emergency.html
Perhaps this does not apply to APS members, but 60% of Americans cannot cover a $ 1000 emergency bill.
One reason I said "anyone" above. There are always legitimate exceptions, but all too often, especially at the lower income levels, the latest smartphone is more important than $500 socked away for emergencies.
Also, JMO, but if you're relatively wealthy (on paper) and buy a $100K fancy car but don't have the money for a new water heater, it's hard for me to feel sorry for you.
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https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/18/few-americans-have-enough-savings-to-cover-a-1000-emergency.html
Perhaps this does not apply to APS members, but 60% of Americans cannot cover a $ 1000 emergency bill.
I have seen those articles. I've also seen articles with the $400 number thrown out as what most people can't cover.
The Mean Household Income in the US is ~$70k, and the Median is ~$52k. While there is real poverty in the US, and a few places that are crushingly expensive to live, I look at those incomes, and the 60% of the US number, and have to come to the conclusion that ~30%-35% of Americans are stupid and reckless when it comes to their finances. I understand not having 3 or 4 months bills tucked away somewhere, but you should be able to come up with $1k liquid if you are making $50k-$70k. Those folks are making poor decisions.
I have an employee that works in my shop (Fed.gov employee + Army Reservist) Who I know for a fact takes home $65k a year. He can't keep his car running and his $89k house is being foreclosed on. But it's not because he's got poverty wages or anything, it's because he makes stupid decisions.
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One reason I said "anyone" above. There are always legitimate exceptions, but all too often, especially at the lower income levels, the latest smartphone is more important than $500 socked away for emergencies.
Also, JMO, but if you're relatively wealthy (on paper) and buy a $100K fancy car but don't have the money for a new water heater, it's hard for me to feel sorry for you.
It's because if they blow all their money on candy, when something important but unscheduled comes up (medical bill, car repair, etc) they expect someone soft-hearted (soft-headed is more like it) to pay it for them, and they'll never have to pay the money back. So they get their bills paid and candy too. Leeches is what they really are. They spend all their money specifically so they won't have it for emergencies.
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It's because if they blow all their money on candy, when something important but unscheduled comes up (medical bill, car repair, etc) they expect someone soft-hearted (soft-headed is more like it) to pay it for them, and they'll never have to pay the money back. So they get their bills paid and candy too. Leeches is what they really are. They spend all their money specifically so they won't have it for emergencies.
One (not really ha ha) funny article I read interviewed a TSA worker. She said she wouldn't have been able to eat if Chick-Fil-A wasn't providing lunch at her airport. She also said how unfair it was that (paraphrasing) someone like her, putting her life on the line protecting the public with a badge, but they don't even get her a gun, is being hurt like this.
One of her more infuriating quotes regarded the interviewer bringing up the 0% interest loans that Navy Federal Credit Union was making available to all impacted workers. She complained that if she took the loan, they would make her give the money back with her back pay, so how does that help her? ;/
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Not to be a party pooper, but I don't think federal employees did themselves any favors with the going to food banks a day after the first missed check went by, or by complaining that they didn't have the money for gas to get to work.
At a current average salary of around $80K/yr, they make more dough than the average American. $50K/yr people who work in the private sector, where they can be fired or laid off at a drop of a hat, can't sympathize with stuff like that.
Anyone, whether gov or private sector, that can't make it through one missed paycheck without hitting the food bank and having to walk there because their car is out of gas, is likely living above their means. They need to cut out the cable or use a dumb phone instead of an iPhone X or something until they have a few hundred to a few thousand dollars in an emergency fund.
Most gov employees have credit cards. They could have used those for food or gas for a couple of weeks (just as they'd likely be doing without the shutdown), since unlike private sector employees, they knew they were getting paid at some point to pay back the card. Also they had the option to take an interest free TSP loan. Even if they don't contribute to TSP, the gov does for them, so only an under one year employee would have less than a few hundred dollars in the account. Most are going to have thousands to tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars in their TSP that they could have used to buy groceries or make a house payment. Once you get your back pay, put the dough back in the TSP - it's practically seamless. Though lenders, utilities, etc. were giving fed employees breaks on due dates of their bills that no one in the private sector gets if they are laid off.
So while it's never cool to be expected to work without pay or be furloughed, the fed employees* that made the news did not do fed employees in general any favors. I guess they made good soundbytes for liberal politicians, but none of that endeared them to working people in general.
*I'll caveat the USCG here. While they are actually in general paid well (and have TSP), I know newbie enlisted in the USCG don't make much money until they move up to around E-3.
Speaking of both USCG personnel and local federal employees, Hurricane Florence wiped out a lot of rainy day funds, same thing down in Panama City.
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Well, why should any of these people manage their money properly? It's not like their bosses can figure out a budget either.
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Having traveled to Vegas and back (Mon- there, Fri- Chicago). I saw a lot fewer TSA folks yet, the lines we a lot less and moved faster then when there are "Thousands Standing Around".
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Well, why should any of these people manage their money properly? It's not like their bosses can figure out a budget either.
Excellent point.
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Having traveled to Vegas and back (Mon- there, Fri- Chicago). I saw a lot fewer TSA folks yet, the lines we a lot less and moved faster then when there are "Thousands Standing Around".
SHOT show?
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So it appears Pelosi will still not allow the SOTU on 29JAN, and is in fact thinking of giving one herself. What would be hilarious is if Trump gives the SOTU at the exact same time in a different venue. :)
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So it appears Pelosi will still not allow the SOTU on 29JAN, and is in fact thinking of giving one herself. What would be hilarious is if Trump gives the SOTU at the exact same time in a different venue. :)
Which means he will choose the venue and it will be a rally not an SOTU. And she looks like a petty tyrant for denying the sitting President the podium in front of the house and senate.
She whipped his ass with the shutdown....and is going to hand him a victory on a silver platter over the SOTU? God damn she's dumb.
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SHOT show?
I went to pick up my award at the AVN show...
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So it appears Pelosi will still not allow the SOTU on 29JAN, and is in fact thinking of giving one herself. What would be hilarious is if Trump gives the SOTU at the exact same time in a different venue. :)
Da Faq?
Why?
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Da Faq?
Why?
Petulance?
I just heard this via Steve Scalice on the newz this morning, so don't know how concrete it is. He was talking about maybe 05FEB, but I don't know if that was his suggestion for an alternate time, or what. He said the President was ready to do it on 29JAN.
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Only place the story was linked on yahoo news...so forgive the huffpo.
https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/nancy-pelosi-trump-apos-state-095517171.html
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Isn't the State of the Union a constitutional requirement?
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Isn't the State of the Union a constitutional requirement?
But, the date, time, and manner of it is not. It could be a simple report emailed to congress. No speech necessary.
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But, the date, time, and manner of it is not. It could be a simple report emailed to congress. No speech necessary.
That sounds like a good thing to me. Trump email the congress from the golf course. He fulfills his duties, and the dems don't get a rebuttal.
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The Washington Post is reporting that Pelosi has invited Trump to deliver his SOTU in the House on February 5th.
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The Washington Post is reporting that Pelosi has invited Trump to deliver his SOTU in the House on February 5th.
Good, when its out of the way we can get back to the shutdown >:D
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I was wondering if Pelosi has re-scheduled her Afghanistan junket yet.
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On the State of the Union:
In the absence of firm constraints, this little bit of our institutional order has—like almost all of the others—mutated into something bigger, dumber, and more dysfunctional than the Framers ever could have imagined; a spectacle with bloated, forgettable prose, guest galleries full of tokens and totems, and a full hour of competitive hand clapping.
...
One of the few fringe benefits of this presidency has been the withering of certain institutions built on professional Washington’s enormous self-regard. Absent a “cool” president, or at least one who’ll play along, we’ve seen the end of the celebrity-studded Kennedy Center galas and the auto-destruction of the White House Correspondents’ Dinner. When House Speaker Nancy Pelosi canceled her initial invitation to deliver the State of the Union in light of the government shutdown, I nurtured hope that the president would respond by deflating its importance, as well.
Absent that, I thought he might at least replace the event with a kind of “Taco Bell Presents SOTU Fest 2019: Live From the Rose Garden and With a Special Performance by Nickelback.”
:laugh:
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Let Nickelback play while the Democrats do their opposition response. That way I can turn off both of them.
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https://twitter.com/johncardillo/status/1090087423172853762
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https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/01/trump-government-shutdown-defeat-long-term-victory/
We shall see.