Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Ben on January 04, 2019, 09:49:35 AM
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I bet this is one that gives the resident Risk Manager nightmares. What the hell is wrong with people?
https://www.foxnews.com/us/woman-in-vegetative-state-for-10-years-gives-births-to-baby
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Well, wait until they do blood/DNA tests on all the male staff that were working there 9 months ago. Sadly, this sort of thing happens more often than you would think. And not just people in comas, but people who are severely mentally or physically disabled and incapable of giving consent and/or resisting. Inevitably, it is male staff doing this to female patients/residents. I have never heard of the reverse.
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Are cameras in every room too much of a HIPPA risk? (I assume the cost would be worth the risk mitigation, but I'm wondering about other factors involved.)
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Well, wait until they do blood/DNA tests on all the male staff that were working there 9 months ago. Sadly, this sort of thing happens more often than you would think. And not just people in comas, but people who are severely mentally or physically disabled and incapable of giving consent and/or resisting. Inevitably, it is male staff doing this to female patients/residents. I have never heard of the reverse.
Unfortunately, true. Helped with the investigation/prosecution of a few cases back in the day. Also unfortunate, it was also male staff doing this to disabled male patients. Always liked seeing the staff members cry when the prison sentences were announced.
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Unfortunately, true. Helped with the investigation/prosecution of a few cases back in the day. Also unfortunate, it was also male staff doing this to disabled male patients. Always liked seeing the staff members cry when the prison sentences were announced.
We need the back of courthouses to have a thick stone wall and one tall wooden post....
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Are cameras in every room too much of a HIPPA risk? (I assume the cost would be worth the risk mitigation, but I'm wondering about other factors involved.)
I have participated in a handful of cases in which video cameras were surreptitiously placed in patient care rooms. Each of those cases were situations in which we suspected either abuse by family or staff, or Munchausen's by proxy by family members, virtually always the mother. Generally speaking, you have to be very cautious about doing video surveillance in areas in which you have a reasonable expectation of privacy. The staff unions would also have a fit. Hallways or public areas are one thing, patient/resident rooms or bathrooms would be quite another thing. You have more latitude when you are investigating suspected crimes or the like.
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Find him, cut his balls off, throw him in gen pop. Let the problem of his miserable existence work itself out.
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Wasn't this how the movie 'Kill Bill' started?
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Amy Schumer, not stone, Railroad ties, less chance of ricochet.
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I seem to remember one proposed method: Tie him to a big mill stone and throw them and stone in deep water.
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I seem to remember one proposed method: Tie him to a big mill stone and throw them and stone in deep water.
Makes it difficult to reuse the stone. A single bullet is cheaper.
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Makes it difficult to reuse the stone. A single bullet is cheaper.
There were no bullets back when that method was proposed.
They did have swords and spears. And crosses. Hmmm . . .
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Surely there's a pig farm nearby.
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A wise man once said "rope is cheap, gravity is free".
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I bet this is one that gives the resident Risk Manager nightmares. What the hell is wrong with people?
https://www.foxnews.com/us/woman-in-vegetative-state-for-10-years-gives-births-to-baby
https://www.chesterton.org/wrong-with-world/
Well, wait until they do blood/DNA tests on all the male staff that were working there 9 months ago. Sadly, this sort of thing happens more often than you would think. And not just people in comas, but people who are severely mentally or physically disabled and incapable of giving consent and/or resisting. Inevitably, it is male staff doing this to female patients/residents. I have never heard of the reverse.
Sexist!
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There were times in my old job, usually during the consumption of copious amounts of alcohol, that we would play the "how to kill the pervert" game. Women, especially mothers, can be downright frightening during in ng that game.
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Well, wait until they do blood/DNA tests on all the male staff that were working there 9 months ago.
One of those things one never thinks about: what kind of security do hospitals provide to comatose patients, to keep people from just wandering in and taking things, assaulting the patient, etc? Can visitors just wander in from the hallways? Are there standards/best practices about that?
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As a general rule, hospital security and controlling access has gotten tighter over the past 20 years or so. In the old days, visiting hours were maybe 1-2 hours, and all visitors had to pass by the nursing station first before they could see a patient. Nowadays, for the general medical/surg/labor and delivery wards, visiting hours are longer and access to the ward may be much more open. This improves patient satisfaction and makes the patients and family happier.
The level of security on a hospital ward depends on what type of care is provided there. The highest security is going to be on a locked forensic psych ward or the correctional healthcare ward, where the mentally-ill criminals or the hospitalized criminals are kept. Next comes the newborn nursery, in which access is controlled through locked doors, every baby gets a baby LoJack and the doors automatically lock and alarms go off if someone tries to remove a baby without deactivating the baby LoJack. Then comes the intensive care units that also often have either locked doors or the entrance goes through the ward front desk, so they can keep an eye out on comings and goings. This is also the usual setup for people in comas or other profound neurological issues. The typical med/surg ward is more open with little access control.
The Joint Commission, which is the primary accreditation agency of hospitals does have security criteria, and harm to a patient from an assault at the hospital is a 'never event'. 'Never events' are bad, and worse things can happen to your accreditation and penalties against the hospital can happen due to 'never events'. https://psnet.ahrq.gov/primers/primer/3/never-events
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I had the impression from the article that the facility is a nursing home, not a hospital.
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There were times in my old job, usually during the consumption of copious amounts of alcohol, that we would play the "how to kill the pervert" game. Women, especially mothers, can be downright frightening during in ng that game.
My two favorites;
Death by Daisy. The duly convicted is stripped naked, tied spread eagle to a wall and shot to death with a Daisy Red Rider BB gun, no head shots above the neck.
Big Hole:
Dig a big hole with a back hoe, throw convicted animal into hole, fill in hole. Park back hoe on top of filled in hole overnight. No wasteful and expensive steps like execution needed.
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I understand hospital security needs for stuff like this, but do not care at all for the general concept that hospitals have a right to make you stay. Comes up in the course when a family member says if they're going to die they want to do it outside the hospital. Look, we're leaving, good luck with your policies. I usually come and go by the stairwells, game the visitor pass deal, tag along when ccu doors open for someone else etc. I'm going to see my family member and the only reason he is playing nice is that if he just walks out then Medicare doesn't pay.
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As a general rule, hospital security and controlling access has gotten tighter over the past 20 years or so. In the old days, visiting hours were maybe 1-2 hours, and all visitors had to pass by the nursing station first before they could see a patient. Nowadays, for the general medical/surg/labor and delivery wards, visiting hours are longer and access to the ward may be much more open. This improves patient satisfaction and makes the patients and family happier.
The level of security on a hospital ward depends on what type of care is provided there. The highest security is going to be on a locked forensic psych ward or the correctional healthcare ward, where the mentally-ill criminals or the hospitalized criminals are kept. Next comes the newborn nursery, in which access is controlled through locked doors, every baby gets a baby LoJack and the doors automatically lock and alarms go off if someone tries to remove a baby without deactivating the baby LoJack. Then comes the intensive care units that also often have either locked doors or the entrance goes through the ward front desk, so they can keep an eye out on comings and goings. This is also the usual setup for people in comas or other profound neurological issues. The typical med/surg ward is more open with little access control.
The Joint Commission, which is the primary accreditation agency of hospitals does have security criteria, and harm to a patient from an assault at the hospital is a 'never event'. 'Never events' are bad, and worse things can happen to your accreditation and penalties against the hospital can happen due to 'never events'. https://psnet.ahrq.gov/primers/primer/3/never-events
Well there go my plans to draw elaborate mustaches on the comatose. =(
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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/09/us/vegetative-state-birth-woman.html
So the police are tracking down all the male employees who worked there and are collecting swabs. I see also that the patient suffered a devastating neurological injury at age three, and had been in the nursing home ever since.
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Queue monstrous questions from the local AnCap:
Who is paying for her stay at this facility from age 3 (1992) to today (2019), the last 27-ish years?
Who is now suggesting that gubmint pay MORE for this person's safety and continued perimeter protection in perpetuity, and other people in similar states?
Whoever raped this poor girl is a monster and I'm eager for him and any accomplices to receive justice or retribution. Don't really care which. But I want to know if/why the public is on the hook for the care costs of a 3 year old that has been in a coma for 27 years, 90% of her life. From what I gather she's effectively brain-dead. Yes, she's the very embodiment of everything that is vulnerable and I feel empathy for that. But it doesn't mean the whole public should have to pay for it.
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Who is paying for her stay at this facility from age 3 (1992) to today (2019), the last 27-ish years?
That's a tough one, it could be partially/fully funded by Social Security or it could be partially/fully funded by an insurance payout in the millions of dollars due to the circumstances of her injury. We don't know nor will we ever know most likely.
But I want to know if/why the public is on the hook for the care costs of a 3 year old that has been in a coma for 27 years, 90% of her life. From what I gather she's effectively brain-dead. Yes, she's the very embodiment of everything that is vulnerable and I feel empathy for that. But it doesn't mean the whole public should have to pay for it.
So, you are in favor of euthanasia if the government is on the hook for prolonged care of a person's body if the mind has stopped functioning and there is no other source of funding? Is it OK if we keep the ones with private pay alive because it isn't costing the .gov (we the people) any money? Just trying to get a handle on the ground rules here. Do we then extend these rules to people with advanced dementia because they also need tons of care on the .gov dime?
bob
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^^^As an enrolled tribal member, it is possible that the Indian Health Service is picking up the tab for care. Of course, the IHS is a government agency, so it is being paid for by government dollars one way or the other, I bet.
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^^^As an enrolled tribal member, it is possible that the Indian Health Service is picking up the tab for care. Of course, the IHS is a government agency, so it is being paid for by government dollars one way or the other, I bet.
Somewhere, somehow the government is paying, probably a combination of SS funds and IHS funds, and still the possibility of private pay depending on circumstances. I can almost guarantee if the IHS is paying there has to be another source of payment because they don't pay their bills very well in either money or in time. Whatever is being paid by the .gov probably won't exceed Medicare guidelines so there will have to be supplemental money coming from somewhere.
bob
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^^^As sort of a sidebar, we are seeing an increase in tribal members in our clinics over the past few weeks. A lot of the local outpatient IHS clinics have temporarily closed their doors due to the government shutdown. Are IHS patients also enrolled in Medicaid, I wonder. I know that we are still getting our Medicare and Medicaid patient bills paid by the Feds.
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^^^As sort of a sidebar, we are seeing an increase in tribal members in our clinics over the past few weeks. A lot of the local outpatient IHS clinics have temporarily closed their doors due to the government shutdown. Are IHS patients also enrolled in Medicaid, I wonder. I know that we are still getting our Medicare and Medicaid patient bills paid by the Feds.
From what I saw in the larger IHS service areas, AZ and MT, they push Medicare enrollment for those eligible to increase their access to health care. Almost all of them are like the VA patients, they have Medicare A but will not purchase Part B because they have the VA to use. The VA cannot bill Medicare for care giveso I would bet the IHS is the same way. They encourage enrollment in case the patient needs health care away from the vicinity of a VA facility. I would imagine it is the same for IHS even though the IHS won't bill Medicare for the care they give to their patients they will encourage enrollment.
bob
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So, you are in favor of euthanasia if the government is on the hook for prolonged care of a person's body if the mind has stopped functioning and there is no other source of funding? Is it OK if we keep the ones with private pay alive because it isn't costing the .gov (we the people) any money? Just trying to get a handle on the ground rules here. Do we then extend these rules to people with advanced dementia because they also need tons of care on the .gov dime?
bob
I'm not in favor of euthanasia for anyone. No one is talking about chemically induced assisted suicide. Nor state mandate that if you can't pay, you must be euthanized.
However I'm also not in favor of any government subsidized healthcare at all. If you can't pay, or can't find a charity willing to pay, then no health care for you.
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I'm not in favor of euthanasia for anyone. No one is talking about chemically induced assisted suicide. Nor state mandate that if you can't pay, you must be euthanized.
However I'm also not in favor of any government subsidized healthcare at all. If you can't pay, or can't find a charity willing to pay, then no health care for you.
Well, that would certainty solve or decrease a bunch of other social problems, such as homelessness and over crowding of schools seeing how appx 35% or so of the US population has been on the .gov teat for health care recently. Without them receiving health care we could expect the mortality to increase among that population which would decrease the population somewhat and with it the problems brought on by too many people. It would also decrease the .gov healthcare budget and they could use the money for other programs. Sounds like a win/win. ;)
bob
bob
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I can't begin to adequately describe my revulsion for the kind of sicko pervert that would do that to a comatose patient - were it up to me, once positively identified there'd be no torture, but he'd just be put down like a mad dog.
But is anyone else disturbed by the issuance of a warrant to DNA test an entire group of people (I haven't seen the actual numbers affected) because one among them is suspected to be the miscreant involved? I can see this kind of thing getting out of hand real easily.
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I can't begin to adequately describe my revulsion for the kind of sicko pervert that would do that to a comatose patient - were it up to me, once positively identified there'd be no torture, but he'd just be put down like a mad dog.
But is anyone else disturbed by the issuance of a warrant to DNA test an entire group of people (I haven't seen the actual numbers affected) because one among them is suspected to be the miscreant involved? I can see this kind of thing getting out of hand real easily.
This isn't an unusual investigative technique from what I understand. I have a feeling that if they needed search warrants for uncooperative employees in order to compel a DNA test it would have been fairly simple given the nature and circumstances of the crime.
I have a much greater issue with police departments using publically available DNA databases, finding a distant relative that is a close match and then target every one of that person's close relatives in obtaining cast off items that may provide them some DNA. For some reason that doesn't sit well with me.
Just one of several recently: https://abcnews.go.com/US/dna-napkin-led-arrest-cold-case-1986-rape/story?id=56139536
bob
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Ever since I read 'The Blooding' by Joseph Wambaugh, I have been interested in the concept of forensic DNA testing, and I am amazed at how it has expanded: both to free the innocent and to convict the guilty.
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Well, that would certainty solve or decrease a bunch of other social problems, such as homelessness and over crowding of schools seeing how appx 35% or so of the US population has been on the .gov teat for health care recently. Without them receiving health care we could expect the mortality to increase among that population which would decrease the population somewhat and with it the problems brought on by too many people. It would also decrease the .gov healthcare budget and they could use the money for other programs. Sounds like a win/win. ;)
bob
bob
I think you would find that most of that number would come up with the money if they had to and wouldn't be hurting that much doing it.
Also, if the Govt and 3rd parties weren't subsidizing everyone, the market would find a way to serve those people at a reasonable rate.
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But is anyone else disturbed by the issuance of a warrant to DNA test an entire group of people (I haven't seen the actual numbers affected) because one among them is suspected to be the miscreant involved? I can see this kind of thing getting out of hand real easily.
The warrant is limited in scope to the male employees (females are exempted, but que triggered LGBTMNOPQRSTUV activists in 5..4...3..2), and only male employees. If they expand it too much beyond that, or to include maybe male visitors, it's still fairly limited in scope. It's not like they are testing every male in a ten block radius.
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Also it could well be that that those still employed are being compelled by the employer more so than the police.
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But is anyone else disturbed by the issuance of a warrant to DNA test an entire group of people...
I am. I'd like to read the arguments, the judge's opinion, and other case law that might concern similar cases.
It seems to me that unless there is already some evidence that points to this group of people, other than being male, then this search order is reaching way too far. Does the hospital have a record of every person who entered that room? Can the hospital prove that only this group of males entered that room? Are any other males who had access to the patient included in the search warrant?
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The warrant is limited in scope to the male employees (females are exempted, but que triggered LGBTMNOPQRSTUV activists in 5..4...3..2), and only male employees. If they expand it too much beyond that, or to include maybe male visitors, it's still fairly limited in scope. It's not like they are testing every male in a ten block radius.
What happens if they have a trans female employee that hasn't been surgically altered mutilated yet, can they force her to submit to DNA testing?
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https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/23/health/arizona-woman-birth-vegetative-state/index.html
A 36 year old LPN has been arrested since his DNA matched. I also see that the reason why the patient entered a coma at age 3 was a near-drowning.
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What a horrible thing for the kid. Your mom's a vegetable, and your Dad's a guy that raped a vegetable. I hope he never finds out about his past, at least not until much later in life.
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What happens if they have a trans female employee that hasn't been surgically altered mutilated yet, can they force her to submit to DNA testing?
1. You worry about trans people too much
2. The hormones themselves destroy fertility. Effectively permanently in the case of males.
Even if a unsnipped mtf trans was screwing the patients, as long as they're real trans and on hormones they're extremely unlikely to get anybody pregnant.
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It's not as much the pregnancy as it is about the RAPE! The pregnancy is a result of a small fraction of the RAPEs and serves as an alert to the bigger issue.
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It's not as much the pregnancy as it is about the RAPE! The pregnancy is a result of a small fraction of the RAPEs and serves as an alert to the bigger issue.
That's a good point. In fact in this case it appears they don't know how many other times that guy raped her. Just by saying that it must mean they suspect he did it repeatedly and regularly.
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^^^If he had been smart enough to use condoms, he may never have been caught. I bet this happened on third shift, when staffing is at its lowest, and the patients are all asleep.
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It's not as much the pregnancy as it is about the RAPE! The pregnancy is a result of a small fraction of the RAPEs and serves as an alert to the bigger issue.
Indeed, but I was looking at it from the angle of solving the crime. A mtf trans is unlikely to be the criminal because they're sterile and we have the baby as evidence.
If she had been sterile or the guy had wrapped it, he probably still wouldn't be caught, as the crime would still be undetected.
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1.You worry about trans people too much
2. The hormones themselves destroy fertility. Effectively permanently in the case of males.
Even if a unsnipped mtf trans was screwing the patients, as long as they're real trans and on hormones they're extremely unlikely to get anybody pregnant.
That kinda threw me, too. Seemed like an oddball thing to bring in out of nowhere.... Larry?
I have my doubts about the legitimacy of the "search warrant," but I guess that'll come out in the wash. The accused is not talking, per his civil rights, and is in jail on half a mil bond. I hope his fellow prisoners aren't Democrats, who seem to feel that an accusation is as good as a conviction. At least according to recent events in high places.
Terry, 230RN
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https://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2019/01/christian-rapper-nathan-sutherland-arrested-for-raping-incapacitated-woman/?fbclid=IwAR3bP-Qv4-qVvqJLr8BqTzwSt5Obwgs9D3bciB8GYdM5rJsceUiYTmYLXic
I would hope that anyone identifying as a good Christian would forego raping women in comas. Perhaps he can practice his rapping in prison.
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I hope his fellow prisoners aren't Democrats, who seem to feel that an accusation is as good as a conviction. At least according to recent events in high places.
Matching DNA test is one hell of an accusation though.
For example, disregarding chromosome section swaps, It's like 1 in 8 million that the kid, being a 50% match for his DNA, is actually his father's, or a son's, happening to get the exact same chromosomes as he did.
MillCreek - I have long concluded that you tend to have two types of "upstanding" individual. Besides the genuine you have fakers who pretend piety or charity in order to cover up their misdeeds. I've seen far too many "fire and brimstone" types come up as doing the very things they preach against.
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https://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2019/01/christian-rapper-nathan-sutherland-arrested-for-raping-incapacitated-woman/?fbclid=IwAR3bP-Qv4-qVvqJLr8BqTzwSt5Obwgs9D3bciB8GYdM5rJsceUiYTmYLXic
I would hope that anyone identifying as a good Christian would forego raping women in comas. Perhaps he can practice his rapping in prison.
It's probably all just a misunderstanding based on spelling. Rapping / raping ... Darn Hooked on Phonics anyway ...
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Matching DNA test is one hell of an accusation though.
For example, disregarding chromosome section swaps, It's like 1 in 8 million that the kid, being a 50% match for his DNA, is actually his father's, or a son's, happening to get the exact same chromosomes as he did.
MillCreek - I have long concluded that you tend to have two types of "upstanding" individual. Besides the genuine you have fakers who pretend piety or charity in order to cover up their misdeeds. I've seen far too many "fire and brimstone" types come up as doing the very things they preach against.
There are also those who act as good people one day, but still do bad things the next day. Many are not capable of doing the right thing 24/7/365. That is why I always thought the "but he is a good Christian" argument and similar arguments were foolish. Seemingly good people can still do bad things.
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That kinda threw me, too. Seemed like an oddball thing to bring in out of nowhere.... Larry?
I have my doubts about the legitimacy of the "search warrant," but I guess that'll come out in the wash. The accused is not talking, per his civil rights, and is in jail on half a mil bond. I hope his fellow prisoners aren't Democrats, who seem to feel that an accusation is as good as a conviction. At least according to recent events in high places.
Terry, 230RN
Did everyone turn off their sense of humor? :facepalm:
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Wonder if they'll hit him up for child support?
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Wonder if they'll hit him up for child support?
You can't squeeze blood from a stone.
I guarantee his wife is divorcing him RFN, taking half of the assets. If he knows he's guilty, he'll probably just roll over in the divorce proceedings and yield 100% to the wife. Then he goes to prison, where he makes no money. Then he comes out and has a felony rape conviction. Not making bank with that on a resume.
ETA: Coming from a family background with an undesirable father, we were just happy to cut him out of my life and my brother's, child support be damned. Accepting child support comes with the ability of this father to have contact or influence over the child. I don't think this family would like any further contact with this person.
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^^^Plus the state nursing board will revoke his nursing credential, he will be on the sex offenders list, and he will never ever again work in healthcare anywhere in the country.
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That seems like a bunch of effort for that scumbag. Can't we just take him outside and put a bullet is his head?
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That seems like a bunch of effort for that scumbag. Can't we just take him outside and put a bullet is his head?
I think capital punishment should be reserved for murder & treason, but I could see an argument for punishing this guy by making him a vegetable. A fully concious vegetable...
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Since we're back to revenge porn, I'm going to close this. There are better forums for this level of conversation.
Chris