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Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Ben on March 18, 2019, 07:57:31 AM



Title: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: Ben on March 18, 2019, 07:57:31 AM
By a VAT on Amazon purchases. "We want to give the American people a slice of every Amazon transaction" by taxing them for everything they buy from Amazon. Freakin' socialists.

As much as a buy from Amazon, this would probably end up costing me $1001/mo.  :laugh:

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2019/03/18/forget-a-chicken-in-every-pot-this-democratic-pres-candidate-wants-to-give-every-american-1000-a-month-theres-just-1-catch/


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: WLJ on March 18, 2019, 08:10:27 AM
Let me guess, another economics major?


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: brimic on March 18, 2019, 08:53:44 AM
I'd worry about Andrew Yang.

The social media meme makers are backing him like they backed trump in 2016.


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: brimic on March 18, 2019, 08:56:41 AM
But then thereĺs this

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/brimic/EA848AD8-1990-4BD5-9995-5D7192670D18_zps9itt1ygk.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/brimic/media/EA848AD8-1990-4BD5-9995-5D7192670D18_zps9itt1ygk.jpg.html)


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: Fly320s on March 18, 2019, 09:27:16 AM
327,000,000 people x $1,000 each = $327,000,000,000.  $327 Billion each MONTH!  Sure, that seems like a perfectly reasonable plan.  Let's do it.


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: Firethorn on March 18, 2019, 09:37:26 AM
$500/month.
Pay for it by eliminating all the other welfare programs and eliminating the lower tax brackets.  IE closer to a flat tax.

Not a chance, I know.


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: Mike Irwin on March 18, 2019, 09:39:54 AM
All we need to do is make the rich pay their FAIR SHARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRE!


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: brimic on March 18, 2019, 09:57:31 AM
$500/month.
Pay for it by eliminating all the other welfare programs and eliminating the lower tax brackets.  IE closer to a flat tax.

Not a chance, I know.


That would probably work... however, in short order, the $500 will be subjected to means testing and be doubled or quadrupled for those left receiving it.



Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: WLJ on March 18, 2019, 10:07:57 AM
$1,000 per month from the govt would probably require $2,000 per month in taxes once you calculate in typical govt efficiency


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: RocketMan on March 18, 2019, 10:26:32 AM
$1,000 per month from the govt would probably require $2,000 per month in taxes once you calculate in typical govt efficiency.

I think you're overly optimistic. Or you have more faith in .gov than I do.


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: WLJ on March 18, 2019, 10:40:56 AM
I think you're overly optimistic. Or you have more faith in .gov than I do.
I almost typed $3,000


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: Fly320s on March 18, 2019, 03:07:18 PM
I almost typed $3,000

Accurate.

$1,000 to bribe the congress critters to pass the bill, $1,000 in misc. pork, $1,000 left for the basic living wage (pre-tax, of course).


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: Firethorn on March 18, 2019, 04:57:36 PM
That would probably work... however, in short order, the $500 will be subjected to means testing and be doubled or quadrupled for those left receiving it.

I don't know, hasn't happened to the Alaska PFD.  Making it means tested would mean taking it away from people, and even middle class would be getting upset at that stuff.

By the way Ben, I heard about this myself, it's not just a VAT on Amazon, but a national VAT tax.  Amazon was just an example of companies "getting away" with not paying tax.

Which means that we'd be setting up a massive new department to manage sales tax for the whole country, for a relatively regressive tax.

Really, other countries like sales taxes because they have a relatively high amount of taxes anyways, and a higher percentage of visitors that wouldn't be paying income tax.  The fewer forms of taxes you have, the more efficient, generally speaking.  Trying to run the country off of tolls, which tend to cost proportionally more of their income to administer than things like sales or income tax(the most efficient forms), would be dumb.


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: Chris on March 18, 2019, 05:42:04 PM
Wow, just reading about this guy. He wants to tax tech companies at 40% to limit automation in industry. He fears a takeover by robots, so to speak.  He and Warren should get together.  "Break it up or tax it down" would be a great campaign slogan.


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: 230RN on March 18, 2019, 07:42:46 PM

Pie in the sky seems to win elections.

Sad, wot?


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: brimic on March 19, 2019, 05:03:09 AM
Quote
Amazon was just an example of companies "getting away" with not paying tax.

Everyone loves amazon,  because for the vast majority of purchases, sales taxes aren't collected


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: Ben on March 19, 2019, 05:16:29 AM
Everyone loves amazon,  because for the vast majority of purchases, sales taxes aren't collected

I don't know if that's the case anymore, though it may be dependent of your state of residence. These days, the majority of my Amazon purchases do have sales tax added to them. In many states YOU are supposed to keep track of your Internet purchases and report them to pay sales tax. Most people don't do that though, which is why many states are pushing the reporting burden to vendors.


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: WLJ on March 19, 2019, 05:34:06 AM
Wow

Quote
    New Jerseyĺs largest city plans to test whether universal basic income is feasible, making it the latest government to flirt with a program that would guarantee income for residents whether or not they have a job.

    Newark Mayor Ras Baraka announced his decision last week to create a task force and pilot program to study whether the program is possible.

    ôWe believe in Universal Basic Income, especially in a time where studies have shown that families that have a crisis of just $400 a month may experience a setback that may be difficult, even impossible to recover from,ö Baraka reportedly said, adding that one-third of the city still lives in poverty.

    According to Fox 5 New York, Baraka did not release any further details of the plan, like how it could be funded or when a final decision would be made.

Never Go Full Socialist: This New Jersey City Is Testing Something That Even Switzerland Rejected
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2019/03/19/never-go-full-socialist-this-new-jersey-city-is-testing-something-that-even-swit-n2543312


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: BTR on March 19, 2019, 05:40:11 AM
Everyone loves amazon,  because for the vast majority of purchases, sales taxes aren't collected

Amazon started collecting sales taxes for my state about a year ago.  I think it is fair, given the low tax burden my state inflicts.


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: Ben on March 19, 2019, 05:45:31 AM
Wow

Never Go Full Socialist: This New Jersey City Is Testing Something That Even Switzerland Rejected
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2019/03/19/never-go-full-socialist-this-new-jersey-city-is-testing-something-that-even-swit-n2543312

At the Townhall link, they mentioned the Finland example, but the excerpt left out one (I think) important finding: The people on UBI were reported as becoming happier with their lives than the control group that had to keep looking for a job.

On the one hand, you might say, "Well that's a good thing!" On the other, you might consider them as Eloi. They got handed money and were told they can do whatever they want, and that they don't have to look for a job or meet any other criteria. So sure, If somebody covers all my monthly expenses and I still get my teevee, phone, Interwebz, etc., I'll be happy being a hefalump on the couch.

If everyone does that though, then who do I call to pump my septic tank? Because "UBI to follow your passion" sounds good, and someone who goes to college to become say, a geologist, might do that because that is their passion and because they would enjoy the work. People who pump *expletive deleted*it don't do that because they love it, they do it because they get paid for it. If they're told, "You can get paid to pump *expletive deleted*it or be paid to surf porn", what are those guys* going to choose?


*Because despite the "everyone deserves a college education" crowd, most of these guys aren't going to go to college to become a geologist instead of a *expletive deleted*it pumper.


EDIT: The Townhall article did have a link to a BBC article where they talk more about the "happy" factor.


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: fistful on March 19, 2019, 05:50:13 AM
(https://cdn.ricochet.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/FB_IMG_1552994573186.jpg)


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: brimic on March 19, 2019, 06:56:06 AM
Amazon started collecting sales taxes for my state about a year ago.  I think it is fair, given the low tax burden my state inflicts.

They started collecting taxes in my state for sales coming out of the local amazon distribution center along with books and media.


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: WLJ on March 19, 2019, 06:57:22 AM
They started collecting taxes in my state for sales coming out of the local amazon distribution center along with books and media.

Same here in Ky


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: MechAg94 on March 19, 2019, 07:03:08 AM
Accurate.

$1,000 to bribe the congress critters to pass the bill, $1,000 in misc. pork, $1,000 left for the basic living wage (pre-tax, of course).
I think you left administration out of that.  That would be at least 80% of the cost so you would need $5000 to send $1000 to an actual person.  And don't forget about the not-actual people who would sign up as part of the multitude of fraud schemes to get more free money.


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: BobR on March 19, 2019, 07:04:17 AM
Amazon started collecting sales taxes for my state about a year ago.  I think it is fair, given the low tax burden my state inflicts.

I think you will see sales tax collected by every on-line retailer soon, if not already. It came out of a USSC decision in 2018. South Dakota wanted their sales tax and went after it through the courts.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andriacheng/2018/06/22/what-supreme-courts-internet-sales-tax-ruling-says-about-the-state-of-retail/#36e939f21e9c

bob


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: HeroHog on March 19, 2019, 08:18:49 AM
Louisiana is taxed by Amazon as well.


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: Mike Irwin on March 19, 2019, 08:56:47 AM
As is Virginia.

If there's a physical presence, such as a fulfillment center, somewhere in the state, it triggers sales tax for the entire state.



Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: HankB on March 19, 2019, 09:31:01 AM
$500/month.
Pay for it by eliminating all the other welfare programs and eliminating the lower tax brackets.  IE closer to a flat tax.

Not a chance, I know.

Since 2012, welfare spending has exceeded $1,000,000,000,000.00 annually. Pretty big pot of money.


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: fistful on March 19, 2019, 12:36:15 PM
Louisiana is taxed by Amazon as well.

Uh, a corporation is making your state pay taxes to it? I knew Amazon was large and powerful, but I had no idea...


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: adively on March 19, 2019, 12:47:55 PM
As is Virginia.

If there's a physical presence, such as a fulfillment center, somewhere in the state, it triggers sales tax for the entire state.



Same here in OH, but we got a AWS Data Center in Columbus and that spurred the inclusion of sales tax for OH residents.


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: RoadKingLarry on March 20, 2019, 05:42:06 AM
Yup, Oklahoma went that route. Now I see sales tax added on to my online orders. I need to dig in to it and find out if I'm being taxed correctly. I'm pretty sure I'm hit for city, county and state based on my mailing address. But, I don't live in the city so shouldn't get hit with city tax.


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: dogmush on March 20, 2019, 05:53:09 AM
Wow

Never Go Full Socialist: This New Jersey City Is Testing Something That Even Switzerland Rejected
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2019/03/19/never-go-full-socialist-this-new-jersey-city-is-testing-something-that-even-swit-n2543312

In unrelated news the Seattle City Council has reportedly bought a bunch of one way bus tickets.   =D


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: Ben on March 20, 2019, 05:59:31 AM
Yup, Oklahoma went that route. Now I see sales tax added on to my online orders. I need to dig in to it and find out if I'm being taxed correctly. I'm pretty sure I'm hit for city, county and state based on my mailing address. But, I don't live in the city so shouldn't get hit with city tax.

I doubt there's anything you could do about it (not that you shouldn't be able to). The gov puts the onus on the businesses to charge the correct tax. While there might be some geodatabase down to the address level for sales taxes, if a business had to create that themselves to ensure they weren't charging city taxes to people living outside city limits, they'd go broke.

I live outside the city too, but I'm pretty sure the database used is just related to your mailing address, which will have the city closest to you linked to your sales tax. Or it may even be the city taxes for the Amazon (or whoever) distribution center. Just like when I bought my last truck, I bought it in a city 30 miles from me, and the taxes were for that city - which actually saved me like $400 over buying it in the city nearest to me.


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: Ben on March 20, 2019, 06:00:45 AM
In unrelated news the Seattle City Council has reportedly bought a bunch of one way bus tickets.   =D

Well, that's cheaper than what Hawaii did.  :laugh:


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: WLJ on March 20, 2019, 06:03:27 AM
Well, that's cheaper than what Hawaii did.  :laugh:

Train tickets?


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: Firethorn on March 21, 2019, 01:30:06 AM
One online store didn't like it when they were sent a bill for improperly collecting sales tax from me by the local city.

I even contacted them and said I don't live in city limits and that their service is even specifically excluded from the tax, but they insisted they had to.  So I went to the city with the bill, the city agreed that it was improper, refunded me, then charged the business for the hassle.


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: Ben on March 21, 2019, 05:18:34 AM
One online store didn't like it when they were sent a bill for improperly collecting sales tax from me by the local city.

I even contacted them and said I don't live in city limits and that their service is even specifically excluded from the tax, but they insisted they had to.  So I went to the city with the bill, the city agreed that it was improper, refunded me, then charged the business for the hassle.

While you were within both your legal and moral rights, I would still be concerned about forcing online business to figure that out. I think it would run the smaller ones out of business, and the big guys would raise their prices to the point that you might as well just go to the brick and mortar places.

Which is fine if you live near brick and mortar places, but ironically, it's the Internet stores that have greatly benefited rural dwellers.

I suppose this could create a market for a GIS business to create and constantly update a geospatial tax database that they could then sell as a subscription to online businesses. Though again, the smaller ones probably couldn't afford it.


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: brimic on March 21, 2019, 07:57:56 AM
Quote
Which is fine if you live near brick and mortar places, but ironically, it's the Internet stores that have greatly benefited rural dwellers.

Living out in the country + Amazon has drastically changed my shopping habits. I use the local hardware store more (10 min away), and rarely step foot into big box stores anymore. Nearest walmart is 20 min away, the nearest Home Depot, 15 min...
Other than lumber, if I need something, but can live without it for 2 days, I order from Amazon.


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: Ben on March 21, 2019, 08:12:31 AM
Living out in the country + Amazon has drastically changed my shopping habits. I use the local hardware store more (10 min away), and rarely step foot into big box stores anymore. Nearest walmart is 20 min away, the nearest Home Depot, 15 min...
Other than lumber, if I need something, but can live without it for 2 days, I order from Amazon.

Yeah, I plan on using the local Ace Hardware and small lumber yard a lot. Probably the Dollar Store too. HD or Lowes are now 35-45 minutes away (in good weather) depending on if I want to shop in Idaho or Oregon. I suppose for a larger purchase that I want to touch before I buy, it's worth going to Oregon to not have any sales tax.


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: Fly320s on March 21, 2019, 04:21:45 PM
Living out in the country + Amazon has drastically changed my shopping habits. I use the local hardware store more (10 min away), and rarely step foot into big box stores anymore. Nearest walmart is 20 min away, the nearest Home Depot, 15 min...
Other than lumber, if I need something, but can live without it for 2 days, I order from Amazon.

10, 15, 20 minutes is not out in the country.  Youĺre suburban at most.


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: fistful on March 21, 2019, 04:59:05 PM
10, 15, 20 minutes is not out in the country.  Youĺre suburban at most.

Sick burn.


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: RoadKingLarry on March 22, 2019, 04:16:35 AM
10, 15, 20 minutes is not out in the country.  Youĺre suburban at most.

If directions to your house do not include the phrase "turn off the paved road" how country can you be?


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: Jamisjockey on March 22, 2019, 04:25:38 AM
If directions to your house do not include the phrase "turn off the paved road" how country can you be?

In my county you can be off a gravel road and 5 minutes from town...


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: Ben on March 22, 2019, 05:07:36 AM
Yeah, it's hard to define "rural" by either time or distance. I've been in plenty of cities where 20 minutes of driving gets you 5 miles down the road. Other places, 20 minutes gets you 20 miles.

Also, you can't really go by "Can you see your neighbor?". I would say that a little mountain community of 200 that's 20 miles from the closest "city" is rural, even if your neighbor is 20 yards away. You can also have 10-20 acres and more space than someone in that tucked away mountain community but only be 5 miles from the Costco.


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: MechAg94 on March 22, 2019, 05:26:12 AM
I seem to remember coming across people who considered a city of 25,000 to be out in the country.  It is all relative. 


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: Ben on March 22, 2019, 05:30:35 AM
I seem to remember coming across people who considered a city of 25,000 to be out in the country.  It is all relative. 

I'm thinking the new definition of "rural" should be bandwidth*. If you're in the single digits, you're rural.  :laugh:


* At least until the LEO satellite swarms finally freakin' come online.


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: brimic on March 22, 2019, 06:37:29 AM
10, 15, 20 minutes is not out in the country.  Youĺre suburban at most.

I live in a township, between 2 suburbs, on an acre and a half of land, and have my own well and septic system, and people  are able to shoot in their back yards... but yes, my current digs are far more suburban than where I grew up.


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: Fly320s on March 22, 2019, 06:54:03 AM
I live in a township, between 2 suburbs, on an acre and a half of land, and have my own well and septic system, and people  are able to shoot in their back yards... but yes, my current digs are far more suburban than where I grew up.

I have a similar setup.  19 acres, own well and septic, no gas line available, can and do shoot on my property, but there is a Lowes, Walmart, Starbucks, etc. within 6 miles of my house.  I consider my area suburban just because of the proximity to shopping.  If I can make a quick run to the store, or get pizza delivered, I donĺt think Iĺm rural. 

YMMV.


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: fistful on March 22, 2019, 07:26:46 AM
I fear this thread is in danger of copyright infringement. I hope Mr. Foxworthy's lawyers are not tuned in.


Title: Re: $1000 a Month for Every American!
Post by: DittoHead on March 22, 2019, 07:33:07 AM
If I can make a quick run to the store, or get pizza delivered, I donĺt think Iĺm rural. 

I would agree with this. Rural areas don't get delivery (except by USPS/UPS/Fedex)


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