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Main Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: just Warren on March 03, 2020, 12:05:08 AM

Title: Best pasta sauce ever?
Post by: just Warren on March 03, 2020, 12:05:08 AM
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/544003/pasta-sauce-hailed-worlds-best-surprisingly-easy-make-home


Sounds great!
Title: Re: Best pasta sacue ever?
Post by: zxcvbob on March 03, 2020, 01:32:40 AM
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/544003/pasta-sauce-hailed-worlds-best-surprisingly-easy-make-home


Sounds great!

That's very close to how I make tomato soup.  (That plus 2 cups of water is the recipe I started with, but it's too bland)

It's probably a decent pasta sauce, but I don't believe all the hype.
Title: Re: Best pasta sacue ever?
Post by: K Frame on March 03, 2020, 07:32:34 AM
Yeah.... no.

First off, the tomatoes should be seeded. Seeds can make the sauce bitter.

Secondly, even after 45 minutes I'm not sure that the tomatoes would break down sufficiently to make a decent sauce.

Lastly, no freaking herbs or spices? Yeah... no thanks.
Title: Re: Best pasta sacue ever?
Post by: HeroHog on March 03, 2020, 08:35:35 PM
Monjuni's, it is a sweet tomato sauce and we LOVE IT!
http://www.monjunis.com/
https://www.amazon.com/Monjunis-Salsa-di-Pomidoro/dp/B01DYUA624/
Title: Re: Best pasta sacue ever?
Post by: kgbsquirrel on March 04, 2020, 05:58:25 PM
Yeah.... no.

First off, the tomatoes should be seeded. Seeds can make the sauce bitter.

Secondly, even after 45 minutes I'm not sure that the tomatoes would break down sufficiently to make a decent sauce.

Lastly, no freaking herbs or spices? Yeah... no thanks.

Thanks for the seed tip.  =)
Title: Re: Best pasta sauce ever?
Post by: cordex on March 05, 2020, 08:18:43 AM
Has anyone here actually tried it?
Title: Re: Best pasta sauce ever?
Post by: K Frame on March 05, 2020, 08:31:46 AM
I may give it a whirl this weekend if I'm feeling like being underwhelmed.
Title: Re: Best pasta sauce ever?
Post by: zxcvbob on March 05, 2020, 08:50:10 AM
I may give it a whirl this weekend if I'm feeling like being underwhelmed.

Make it straight the first time, then when [I predict] it sucks, you can fix it -- because it's probably almost good.  Add some black pepper, garlic and oregano, and maybe use a beef bouillon cube instead of the salt.  Oh, and chop up the cooked onion and add it back.  OTOH, maybe it actually is good just like it is, but there is so much hype about it I don't see how.

My tomato soup recipe is based on this recipe but watered down.  The first try, when I followed the recipe exactly was pretty bad but I thought it had potential.  All what it needed to be a decent soup (with a little trial and error) was celery, bouillon, and a just little sugar.  I blend it up with a stick blender, then run it thru a seive to get the remaining celery strings and any tomato skins and seeds out.
Title: Re: Best pasta sauce ever?
Post by: K Frame on March 05, 2020, 09:17:43 AM
You and I are pretty much 100% in agreement of what it likely will need. I can't imagine a tomato sauce without garlic, basil, and oregano. I also can't imagine it without white wine; I always use white wine when I make tomato sauce at home. Alcohol liberates flavor compounds that water and fat won't.
Title: Re: Best pasta sauce ever?
Post by: zxcvbob on March 05, 2020, 09:38:51 AM
You and I are pretty much 100% in agreement of what it likely will need. I can't imagine a tomato sauce without garlic, basil, and oregano. I also can't imagine it without white wine; I always use white wine when I make tomato sauce at home. Alcohol liberates flavor compounds that water and fat won't.

Any reason not to use red wine?  I don't cook w/ wine so I don't know, but I often have a box of Vella burgundy open.  (I'm not going to open any soon; I'm abstaining from alcohol for Lent and don't want a half bottle of wine or an open box to tempt me)

I saw Jamie Oliver cooking some lasagna on TV recently, and he just used fresh sage for the herbs (instead of oregano, basil, thyme, etc)  Might be interesting...
Title: Re: Best pasta sauce ever?
Post by: MillCreek on March 05, 2020, 10:52:40 AM
I also would like Mike's input on the white wine.  I almost always pour in a glug or two of a hearty red.
Title: Re: Best pasta sauce ever?
Post by: K Frame on March 05, 2020, 11:01:21 AM
I use white wine because I generally prefer (and have on hand) white wine, but red wines work perfectly, as well.

I've never been much of a red wine drinker, but I really enjoy a lot of whites, and whenever I cook with wine I like to have a glass.

But, I've started using more red wines in my cooking, particularly Malbec for chili and Burgundy and Pinot Noir for stew, though, so adding whatever kind of wine you have on hand (or even hard spirits like gin or vodka) is perfectly OK.
Title: Re: Best pasta sauce ever?
Post by: Fly320s on March 05, 2020, 01:11:12 PM
I've used vodka and bourbon in pastry dough.  Works well.
Title: Re: Best pasta sauce ever?
Post by: K Frame on March 05, 2020, 01:51:38 PM
I've used vodka and bourbon in pastry dough.  Works well.

That application is generally less for flavor and more for cutting down on gluten formation. The alcohol provides hydration to the flour, but it won't allow the two proteins in the flour to interact to form gluten.
Title: Re: Best pasta sauce ever?
Post by: lupinus on March 05, 2020, 03:20:35 PM
On white vs red, comes down to flavor profiles. For things like a basic tomato sauce or with chicken, white tends to interact better. Red with beef or pork sauces.

That said, the recipe is rubbish.

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Title: Re: Best pasta sauce ever?
Post by: zxcvbob on March 05, 2020, 03:24:36 PM
You and I are pretty much 100% in agreement of what it likely will need. I can't imagine a tomato sauce without garlic, basil, and oregano. I also can't imagine it without white wine; I always use white wine when I make tomato sauce at home. Alcohol liberates flavor compounds that water and fat won't.

I can't either, but maybe we just aren't imaginative enough. :)  It won't be a traditional sauce but it will taste like cooked tomatoes, and it's creamy from the butter.  Garlic and basil and pepper flakes, etc. might get in the way (I don't think so)


Title: Re: Best pasta sacue ever?
Post by: T.O.M. on March 05, 2020, 08:26:56 PM
Yeah.... no.

First off, the tomatoes should be seeded. Seeds can make the sauce bitter.

Secondly, even after 45 minutes I'm not sure that the tomatoes would break down sufficiently to make a decent sauce.

Lastly, no freaking herbs or spices? Yeah... no thanks.

Yeah, no basil, oregano, etc., what's the point?  A can of Ragu might have more flavor...

Anyone got a good meat sauce recipe?
Title: Re: Best pasta sauce ever?
Post by: Ron on March 05, 2020, 08:43:06 PM
Google "world's best lasagna recipe".

I started making this lasagna I found at allrecipes.com and use the leftover sauce as pasta sauce.

Of course I tweek it a bit.
Title: Re: Best pasta sauce ever?
Post by: K Frame on March 06, 2020, 07:41:17 AM
"Anyone got a good meat sauce recipe?"

I made Alton Brown's meat sauce once.

It's really fantastic, but it has a LOT of moving parts.

https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/meat-sauce-and-spaghetti-recipe-1917618


I eat a lot of pasts and ground turkey. I have it, on average, 3 times a week during the week. It's quick, easy, and I can control the portion sizes. I also throw in frozen broccoli to quickly cook with the pasta.

Anymore, though, I'm not eating a lot of red sauce... I'm using an olive oil, herb, and lemon juice sauce.
Title: Re: Best pasta sauce ever?
Post by: K Frame on March 09, 2020, 07:51:04 AM
Well, I bought the can of tomatoes, but I decided to make a meatloaf instead of pasta for dinner.
Title: Re: Best pasta sauce ever?
Post by: zxcvbob on March 09, 2020, 09:00:46 AM
You and I are pretty much 100% in agreement of what it likely will need. I can't imagine a tomato sauce without garlic, basil, and oregano. I also can't imagine it without white wine; I always use white wine when I make tomato sauce at home. Alcohol liberates flavor compounds that water and fat won't.

I wonder if no garlic, herbs, or spices might be a northern Italy thing? 
Title: Re: Best pasta sauce ever?
Post by: Ron on March 09, 2020, 09:52:28 AM
I wonder if no garlic, herbs, or spices might be a northern Italy thing? 

Some of the historic deep dish pizza places in Chicago have sauces that are very very lightly seasoned compared to traditional thin crust pizzas.

The seasoning and flavor come primarily from the meat(s) and toppings.
Title: Re: Best pasta sauce ever?
Post by: K Frame on March 09, 2020, 10:13:20 AM
That makes sense when you're talking about a complex dish that has multiple ingredients.

But when the dish is simple, with essentially 1 main ingredient (pasta)? I just don't see it.
Title: Re: Best pasta sauce ever?
Post by: Ron on March 09, 2020, 10:42:31 AM
That makes sense when you're talking about a complex dish that has multiple ingredients.

But when the dish is simple, with essentially 1 main ingredient (pasta)? I just don't see it.

I've been trying to perfect making my own deep dish pizza as I'm hoping to be out of Illinois in the near future and won't have easy access to legit DD.

After trying both lightly seasoned and more traditional pizza sauce recipes Ive been going with the more traditionaly seasoned sauce.

Title: Re: Best pasta sacue ever?
Post by: BobR on March 09, 2020, 11:16:22 AM
Yeah, no basil, oregano, etc., what's the point?  A can of Ragu might have more flavor...

Anyone got a good meat sauce recipe?

My wife has a recipe for her sauce. She comes from old school Italian cooking, if the sauce hasn't simmered for 12 hours or so it isn't fit for human consumption. It is usually a two day process for her, but there are always lots of leftovers to be frozen and used on lasagna or other pasta.

bob
Title: Re: Best pasta sacue ever?
Post by: Ron on March 09, 2020, 11:54:36 AM
My wife has a recipe for her sauce. She comes from old school Italian cooking, if the sauce hasn't simmered for 12 hours or so it isn't fit for human consumption. It is usually a two day process for her, but there are always lots of leftovers to be frozen and used on lasagna or other pasta.

bob

Tomatoes are high in lectins. The 12 hour simmer is probably enough to break them down.

The leaky gut people blame lectins in our food for the preponderance of inflammatory issues.

Problem is, nearly everything has lectins.

I don't buy into it but it is a data point.
Title: Re: Best pasta sauce ever?
Post by: Brad Johnson on March 09, 2020, 02:36:44 PM
If it doesn't have lectins, sulfites, and MSG, I ain't eatin' it!

Brad
Title: Re: Best pasta sauce ever?
Post by: K Frame on March 14, 2020, 06:32:22 PM
Not the best pasta sauce ever. Not even close.

Better than I expected, but I wanted more flavor.

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Title: Re: Best pasta sauce ever?
Post by: cordex on March 14, 2020, 07:36:26 PM
Thanks for the report!
Title: Re: Best pasta sauce ever?
Post by: K Frame on March 15, 2020, 06:38:04 AM
OK, that was from my phone. Let me give a longer report...

First off, I used Hunt's whole plum tomatoes. I was very happy to see that they were already largely seeded and I didn't have to worry about that. What seeds were left I got out of the liquid using a fine sieve. Yes, some seeds in the sauce, but no huge deal.

Second, they weren't kidding that 5 tablespoons of butter look weird in there. And, once they melt down, the sauce still looks kind of weird.

45 minutes wasn't, as I suspected, nearly long enough, at least not long enough to reduce the sauce to a thickness I like. I ended up going nearly double that time and it was still a bit thin. I also used a tall, narrow sauce pot, which was a mistake.

I also only had 1 small onion, compliments of the Kung Flu panic monkeys cleaning them all out. I should have added some onion powder, but I didn't.

As I suspected, 45 minutes was also not long enough to really break the tomatoes down. I ended up hitting it with my stick blender to break it up some more.


The taste....

The taste was good. I think the butter had a lot to do with that, and I'm going to use butter in my future sauces instead of olive oil. It was on the sweet side, which I kind of like in my pasta sauces, but it was VERY mild. I served it with rigatoni, broccoli, and pan fried cod. You know the taste is mild when cod overwhelms it. With straight pasta it might be OK, but if you have other ingredients in the dish it might be too mild. The broccoli? Yeah, the broccoli took its lunch money and kicked it into a mud puddle.

All in all, I want, and I really missed, the traditional flavors associated with pasta sauce -- the sweet tang of basil, the earthy pungency of garlic, the bite of oregano.

So, interesting attempt. It was easy, but for me, to make a really good pasta sauce, it needs more parts and more effort.


As posited below, I think this could be a decent pizza sauce, but I still think it would need at least some more flavor to be successful in that role, as well.
Title: Re: Best pasta sauce ever?
Post by: K Frame on April 05, 2020, 10:35:37 PM
Resurrecting this to say that this past weekend I had the best jarred pasta sauce I've ever had, and it really stood tall with the best homemade pasta sauces I've ever had.

Rao's Homemade.

Friends get it at Costco. No artificial ingredients at all.

I've seen it in my local stores, but it's always been obscenely expensive... upwards $10 a bottle.

Half that at Costco, which is still expensive, but my God it's good sauce.
Title: Re: Best pasta sauce ever?
Post by: MillCreek on June 18, 2020, 09:12:51 AM
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/kitchen-notes/dont-throw-away-the-marcella-hazan-tomato-sauce-onion?mbid=social_facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_social-type=owned&utm_brand=tny&fbclid=IwAR25gUn71lD1yGG9YcnnF1CTvQEkmuEAT9Xp1dTPo3ak1pcuWMv6Cet_LmA

More praise for this recipe, which does not strike me as that great.
Title: Re: Best pasta sauce ever?
Post by: K Frame on June 18, 2020, 12:02:45 PM
I made it. Its.... ok, at best.

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Title: Re: Best pasta sauce ever?
Post by: zxcvbob on June 18, 2020, 12:08:20 PM
I made it. Its.... ok, at best.


The sauce is mostly hype.  Use more water, add a little celery, and use a beef bouillon cube instead of salt and it makes a good tomato soup.  (have I said that already?)