Armed Polite Society

Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: WLJ on May 10, 2020, 10:49:55 AM

Title: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: WLJ on May 10, 2020, 10:49:55 AM
Come and take it. And I don't even have a gas stove  :P
Are gas furnaces next?

Twitchy has this on VIP but here's a straight twitter link

Quote
Matt Bruenig
@MattBruenig
·
19h
after the covid, we should hire
millions of people to go door to door, tearing out people's gas powered stoves and replacing them with electric, whether they want to or not
https://twitter.com/MattBruenig/status/1259245045074575363

The Twitchy VIP link
Hot take: Let’s hire millions to go door to door tearing out people’s gas stoves after the COVID-19 crisis passes
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2020/05/09/hot-take-lets-hire-millions-to-go-door-to-door-tearing-out-peoples-gas-stoves-after-the-covid-19-crisis-passes/

Had to look this guy up
From Wiki
Quote
Matthew Bruenig[1] (born November 22, 1988)[2][3] is an American lawyer, blogger, policy analyst, commentator,[4] and founder of the left-wing think tank People's Policy Project. He was a blogger for the American think tank Demos covering politics and public policy[5] and has written on issues including income distribution, taxation, welfare, elections, and Scandinavian economic models.[6][7][8] He is married to Elizabeth Bruenig,[9] formerly an opinion writer and editor at The Washington Post[10] who is now at The New York Times.[11]
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: RoadKingLarry on May 10, 2020, 10:55:01 AM
Quote
after the covid, we should hire
millions of people to go door to door, tearing out people's gas powered stoves and replacing them with electric, whether they want to or not

Do you want to get shot? 'cause that's a damn good way to get yourself shot.
 [ar15]
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Nick1911 on May 10, 2020, 10:58:19 AM
Well that's dumb.

For heating applications, it's much better to burn the fuel at point of use, then use it to make electricity first and incur Carnot cycle losses and transmission losses.  Of course, that assumes that we are still burning things for electric power, and haven't done the sane, rational thing and use atomic energy... Something Matt probably also disagrees with.

Also, who is Matt Bruenig and why should I concern myself with what he thinks?  Sounds like a community organizer sort, lots of talk, no action.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: 230RN on May 10, 2020, 11:08:51 AM
"whether they want to or not"

That tells it all with respect to left wing attitudes:  "Comes the revolution, you will do as you're damned well told."

Some good stuff in the responses.  Hadn't heard this one before:

"That lock on my door is for your protection, not mine.

— Mark C, austere BBQ scholar(@UntraceableMC) May 9, 2020"


Almost as good as

------------------------------
 This property protected
    by J. M. Browning
    Security Services.
          est. 1911
------------------------------


I came up with that one a couple of years ago and posted it on an inside wall of my apartment.  Wouldn't want to look bloodthirsty, after all.  Not copyrighted.

Terry, 230RN

Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Jim147 on May 10, 2020, 01:08:23 PM
My wife would beat him to death before she gives up that duel fuel range.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: MechAg94 on May 10, 2020, 01:41:53 PM
Looking at his twitter posts, he looks like an internet troll trying to stir things up.  He might be a leftist, but I couldn't be sure.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: WLJ on May 10, 2020, 03:27:06 PM
Looking at his twitter posts, he looks like an internet troll trying to stir things up.  He might be a leftist, but I couldn't be sure.

Did you see the wiki info on him, he's flaming left
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Boomhauer on May 10, 2020, 06:54:25 PM

Had to look this guy up
From Wiki

That’s a lot of words to say “useless *expletive deleted*ing mommy parts”
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: charby on May 10, 2020, 08:49:24 PM
Everyone gets a free electrical panel upgrade? Doubt everyone has the power capacity for electric stove, electric dryer, electric furnace, electric water heater, and AC.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Kingcreek on May 10, 2020, 08:56:21 PM
Living out in the sticks, I hope I get a free whole house gen with the deal.
The reason I have a propane oven and range and boiler and water heater is because they work when the electrical power is out and it’s -15 degrees with 3’ snow drifts in the road.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: 230RN on May 10, 2020, 09:21:51 PM
I always figured electric stoves were pretty wasteful, what with warmup times and cooldown times just dissipating energy uselessly, let alone the possibility of kicking  your billing into high demand rates.

(I'd love to see more atomic energy generated, too.  What are we, at 20% now?)
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: RoadKingLarry on May 10, 2020, 09:46:48 PM
Everyone gets a free electrical panel upgrade? Doubt everyone has the power capacity for electric stove, electric dryer, electric furnace, electric water heater, and AC.

When the right people are in charge you wont need heat or AC.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Hawkmoon on May 10, 2020, 09:53:30 PM
Everyone gets a free electrical panel upgrade? Doubt everyone has the power capacity for electric stove, electric dryer, electric furnace, electric water heater, and AC.

I seriously doubt the California power companies have the capacity to handle everyone switching to all electric. Heck, the power companies have been paying people NOT to use electricity for years. Maybe this clown thinks everyone has a solar roof already?
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: tokugawa on May 11, 2020, 02:45:58 AM
Living out in the sticks, I hope I get a free whole house gen with the deal.
The reason I have a propane oven and range and boiler and water heater is because they work when the electrical power is out and it’s -15 degrees with 3’ snow drifts in the road.

 This. I have cooked a lot of food with no electrical power.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: K Frame on May 11, 2020, 07:16:01 AM
I imagine he wants my pellet stove, too.

I actually had to burn my pellet stove yesterday. It was damned cold in the house.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: MechAg94 on May 11, 2020, 08:54:06 AM
This. I have cooked a lot of food with no electrical power.
That.  Though the last time it was relevant was Ike several years ago.  Power was out and I still had hot water and could fire up the burners on the stove.  This with natural gas though.  Using electricity for that would be more expensive. 
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: RoadKingLarry on May 11, 2020, 09:23:38 AM
I imagine he wants my pellet stove, too.

I actually had to burn my pellet stove yesterday. It was damned cold in the house.

I wonder what he would think  about my wood stove? Speaking of which I may build a fire here today.
*expletive deleted*ing global warming!
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: WLJ on May 11, 2020, 09:56:48 AM
I imagine he wants my pellet stove, too.

I actually had to burn my pellet stove yesterday. It was damned cold in the house.

Tire pellets
I can already hear "How Dare You!" just thinking about it.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Pb on May 11, 2020, 11:15:01 AM
Gas appliances are already banned in some places in the USA.   ;/
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: RocketMan on May 11, 2020, 12:38:13 PM
I will not turn in my gas stove.  My wife would kill me if I did.
I will certainly turn on my gas stove to cook all kinds of tasty animals.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: K Frame on May 11, 2020, 02:45:37 PM
And I've had to fire up my pellet stove again...

Suck it, Bruenig.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: RoadKingLarry on May 11, 2020, 03:59:29 PM
Yeah, 11th of May in Oklahoma and I had to fire up the woodstove.
 =|
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Jim147 on May 11, 2020, 05:30:23 PM
Just put some hedge logs in the wood stove. It is chilly here for may
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: K Frame on May 12, 2020, 07:29:12 AM
And guess that's burning in my living room right now?

If you said the TV, no, but good guess.

Hopefully this is the last I have to burn the stove until late this year.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: MillCreek on May 12, 2020, 10:32:21 AM
This article popped up in my news feed this morning, and it is relevant to the discussion. It makes me think about having the vent fan run every single time we are using the stove.

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2020/5/7/21247602/gas-stove-cooking-indoor-air-pollution-health-risks
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Kingcreek on May 12, 2020, 01:02:05 PM
This article popped up in my news feed this morning, and it is relevant to the discussion. It makes me think about having the vent fan run every single time we are using the stove.

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2020/5/7/21247602/gas-stove-cooking-indoor-air-pollution-health-risks
Thanks for that motivation.
We replaced our 23 year old Jenn Aire with downdraft vent last fall with a new propane Samsung and lost the downdraft in the process. I plan to vent up using the also new Samsung microwave over range unit but didn’t want to open up the wall and vent out in the cold weather. It is on an outside wall but will vent up high onto our covered porch. I think living on Covid time and better weather I could fold that into the covid project list since illanoy will be one of the last states to reopen.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: RocketMan on May 12, 2020, 04:11:04 PM
And guess that's burning in my living room right now?

Floppies?
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Jim147 on May 12, 2020, 05:01:47 PM
😳
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: K Frame on May 12, 2020, 11:04:42 PM
If I could have justified the money when I had to replace my stove back in 2016 I would have gone with an induction cooktop model. But, the cheapest induction range I could find was over $3,000.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Jim147 on May 12, 2020, 11:19:55 PM
Gas is still better. I have gas at the house and induction in the cabin.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: RoadKingLarry on May 12, 2020, 11:36:11 PM
The oven I could care less as long as it will maintain a consistent temperature.
98% of my stove top cooking is with cast iron. I will not use a cast iron skillet on electric or induction. That's my line in the sand, that's my hill.
 [ar15]
 =D
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: sumpnz on May 13, 2020, 12:10:32 AM
They can have my Bluestar 48" Platinum range when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.  Spent as much on it as the (used) minivan.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: charby on May 14, 2020, 08:17:01 PM
The oven I could care less as long as it will maintain a consistent temperature.
98% of my stove top cooking is with cast iron. I will not use a cast iron skillet on electric or induction. That's my line in the sand, that's my hill.
 [ar15]
 =D

I prefer gas, but an electric range came with the house, I have no problems using cast iron and an electric range. When it poops the bed, I will replace it with a gas range and oven. Also need to pipe gas to the kitchen too. Easily done, have a 1" gas line into the house that runs the length of the basement since I have a gas clothes dryer on the far side of the basement from the meter.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: WLJ on January 09, 2023, 07:44:23 PM
The Biden administration says hi

Quote
The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission is considering a ban on gas stoves as concerns surrounding indoor air pollutants from the appliances continue to rise, according to reports.

Bloomberg reported that the agency plans to act on the appliances because the pollutants can cause respiratory and health issues.

"This is a hidden hazard," agency commissioner Richard Trumka Jr. told Bloomberg. "Any option is on the table. Products that can’t be made safe can be banned."

Gas stove ban 'on the table' for federal agency: reports
U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission consider ban on gas stoves because of harm pollutants cause on respiratory and other health issues.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/gas-stove-ban-table-federal-agency-reports
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: bedlamite on January 09, 2023, 07:54:04 PM
But wait, there's more

Gas stove ban 'on the table' for federal agency: reports
U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission consider ban on gas stoves because of harm pollutants cause on respiratory and other health issues.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/gas-stove-ban-table-federal-agency-reports

If this starts to get any traction I may have to pick up a spare stove.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: French G. on January 09, 2023, 08:06:12 PM
Yes, this is one more go at greenies killing people and not caring. Or intentionally. Ban gas stoves. Ban small engines for generators and saws like Cali has. Maybe ban white gas and small LP cylinders. Next we make the grid super unreliable and resist all efforts at stable capacity growth. Then people can starve, freeze or report to a government center for aid. Or be me, I got gifted a wood cook stove and still have a functioning chimney for one.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Hawkmoon on January 09, 2023, 09:11:51 PM
The Biden administration says hi

Gas stove ban 'on the table' for federal agency: reports
U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission consider ban on gas stoves because of harm pollutants cause on respiratory and other health issues.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/gas-stove-ban-table-federal-agency-reports

IF gas stoves create enough harmful pollutants to cause illness (which I very much doubt), it's only because their previous green weenie regulations have made new houses so airtight that new houses today, instead of just breathing naturally, have to be equipped with mechanical, whole-house ventilation systems.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: MechAg94 on January 10, 2023, 09:01:58 AM
So are they going to try to ban fire places?  If gas stoves cause harmful pollutants, I am sure a fire place would do the same. 

I don't have a fire place.  I saw a video recently on a portable propane heater I liked.  I may have to go ahead and get that. 
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: RoadKingLarry on January 10, 2023, 11:11:40 AM
So are they going to try to ban fire places?  If gas stoves cause harmful pollutants, I am sure a fire place would do the same. 

I don't have a fire place.  I saw a video recently on a portable propane heater I liked.  I may have to go ahead and get that.

They (the EPA) is working on it.
https://www.epa.gov/residential-wood-heaters/understanding-residential-wood-heater-rules

It almost seem like "they" really do want us peasants living (and dying) in the cold and dark.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: K Frame on January 10, 2023, 12:01:56 PM
"It almost seem like "they" really do want us peasants living (and dying) in the cold and dark."

How else can mother earth gaia be saved but by destroying the parasites that infest her goodness?
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: charby on January 10, 2023, 12:27:57 PM
I'm starting this think these policy makers never lived outside a major metro area.

I live in a town of 25k and we can have extensive electrical power outages due to even if a minor weather event takes out one of the transmission lines into town. I live 7 miles from a NG generating station, windmills everywhere, but it doesn't take much to break the grid.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 10, 2023, 01:01:11 PM
I'm starting this think these policy makers never lived outside a major metro area.

Of course not. That would be gross.

Funny how our ancestors cooked over fire for thousands of years, and managed to survive the experience. They must have had much more advanced technology and medical know-how than we do now. I mean, hey, they even knew what women were.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: RoadKingLarry on January 10, 2023, 01:42:36 PM
Of course not. That would be gross.

Funny how our ancestors cooked over fire for tens of thousands of years, and managed to survive the experience. They must have had much more advanced technology and medical know-how than we do now. I mean, hey, they even knew what women were.

FTFY
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: MechAg94 on January 10, 2023, 02:03:10 PM
I'm starting this think these policy makers never lived outside a major metro area.

I live in a town of 25k and we can have extensive electrical power outages due to even if a minor weather event takes out one of the transmission lines into town. I live 7 miles from a NG generating station, windmills everywhere, but it doesn't take much to break the grid.
That is certainly the case at my parents house.  My Dad has a generator, but he has a propane burner system set up in the fire place. 
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: K Frame on January 11, 2023, 06:57:55 AM
That is certainly the case at my parents house.  My Dad has a generator, but he has a propane burner system set up in the fire place. 

Jesus Christ... your Dad may be the single most evil, earth-hating person to ever live!
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Ben on January 16, 2023, 11:29:21 AM
Besides the fact that a bunch of electricity is created through natural gas (dump your gas stove, get an electric stove, and power it with electricity created from NG), I distinctly remember in the 90s' the parents of these boneheads were all telling us to dump our electric stoves for gas in order to save the planet.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Nick1911 on January 16, 2023, 11:46:45 AM
Besides the fact that a bunch of electricity is created through natural gas (dump your gas stove, get an electric stove, and power it with electricity created from NG), I distinctly remember in the 90s' the parents of these boneheads were all telling us to dump our electric stoves for gas in order to save the planet.

The latter makes good sense.  Burning fuel to create mechanical energy is efficiency bound by the carnot cycle.  A typical power plant only turns about 40% of it's heat energy into usable power - the rest is waste heat.  That's not because power plants suck, it's inherent to the physics of heat engines.  I bet that a gas stove has better heat transfer than 40%.  Any electric resistance heat is rather inefficient.  My old gas water heater is only 60% efficient, but that beats an electric in terms of fuel burned for heat.

*Heat pumps change this equation.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Ben on January 16, 2023, 01:32:15 PM
The latter makes good sense. 

I agree with that. The argument in the 90s made some sense. It's just fascinating to me how the current generation of enviros is so into electricity (too often having zero idea regarding how it's created). Without a ton of nuclear, there is no way for us to currently run everything on electricity that the modern enviros want us to run on electricity.

And of course part of this most recent tantrum is the study showing gas stoves cause brain damage. How many of these people have gas water heaters and gas furnaces? I know that in hippie coastal CA, almost every home is heated with gas.  I understand there is a big heat pump push there now though. Which, for the CA coastal climate actually makes some sense - the temp variations are pretty much in the heat pump sweet spot.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: WLJ on January 16, 2023, 01:38:01 PM
Hmmm, cook dinner or charge the car?
California: hahahahahahahaha
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: K Frame on January 16, 2023, 01:45:26 PM
"I bet that a gas stove has better heat transfer than 40%."

Multiple studies claim that gas stoves top out right at 40%, electric coil stoves hit about 70%, and induction units hit the high 80s.

But, that's only the "burner to pot to food" part of the efficiency spectrum.

The other end of it is the production end, and in that gas wins hands down.

I'd really like to have a gas stove, but it's simply not available in my community and I don't have anywhere to put gas bottles, so I deal with electric.

I've got a gas top stove and I like it, but it's weird cooking on it. It took me a LONG time to get used to how it functions, even if it is a lot easier to keep clean.

About 18 months ago I picked up an induction burner from Amazon.

Holy hell is that thing brilliant. Unbelievably fast to boil water and the precise temperature control that it gives me is fantastic.

When I replaced my stove back in 2016 I briefly considered a unit with a full induction cooktop... until I saw the price. Four to six times what my current stove cost. Nope.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: sumpnz on January 16, 2023, 01:50:42 PM
It has zero to do with indoor pollution or health effects thereof.  It is entirely about accruing more political power and control over people.  We?re all aghast because the idea of controlling others is anathema to us.  But it is the raison d'etre for them.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: HeroHog on January 16, 2023, 01:53:37 PM
MICROWAVE IT ALL!










NOT!
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: MechAg94 on January 16, 2023, 01:55:57 PM
This subject reminded me of the linear city idea.  I saw this video this morning.  He sort of touched on the idea that running a city like this efficiently and maintaining the linear part would require a dictatorial govt that could force everyone into the structure of the city.  Kind of fits with the idea mentioned above about keeping everyone poor, hungry, and cold while the elites enjoy their countryside estates or prime penthouses. 

Why Linear Cities Don't Work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHRMcwQHicI

Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: WLJ on January 16, 2023, 01:59:26 PM
About 18 months ago I picked up an induction burner from Amazon.

Holy hell is that thing brilliant. Unbelievably fast to boil water and the precise temperature control that it gives me is fantastic.

When I replaced my stove back in 2016 I briefly considered a unit with a full induction cooktop... until I saw the price. Four to six times what my current stove cost. Nope.

We need a new stove and heard lots of great things about induction tops but about fainted when I saw the price
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: K Frame on January 16, 2023, 02:22:57 PM
When I was looking back in 2016 the cheapest I was seeing was almost $3,000+; those were high end German and Korean models from Bosch and Samsung.

Now I'm seeing Frigidaire induction ranges with convection ovens in the $1,500 ballpark.

Still way too much.

And I've heard that both Bosch and Samsung burner units have a tendency to fail after about 3 years and they are horrifically expensive to replace.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: RoadKingLarry on January 16, 2023, 03:00:51 PM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52630801672_21f5b0fb4e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2obNBH3)
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Ben on January 16, 2023, 03:10:28 PM
The Euros are big on induction. Pretty much all my relatives in krautland run induction stoves. They are apparently more reasonable to purchase in the EU than in the US. I have an induction hotplate (which are actually very reasonably priced) and use it pretty much every day, even if only to (very quickly!) boil water. I have a gas (propane) stove now. If I had a regular electric stove, I would switch it to induction in a heartbeat but for the price.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: WLJ on January 16, 2023, 03:47:43 PM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52630801672_21f5b0fb4e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2obNBH3)

 :rofl:
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: K Frame on January 16, 2023, 03:55:35 PM
I got my induction burner primarily for summer use because of the amount of heat that my regular stove pumps into my galley kitchen.

It has performed so darned well that I've been using it year round.

I generally keep it on the stove itself (galley kitchens aren't blessed with a ton of counter space, unfortunately. When I need to use the real burners I move the induction unit out of the way.

I'm going to be making a pasta dish this evening (check for my most recent comment on the recipe in Puke Palace, made earlier today) and the pan I use for that isn't induction friendly, so tonight's a stove top burner kind of night.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: WLJ on January 16, 2023, 06:04:39 PM
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/x383/WLJohnson1/CLpXhPT.jpg)
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: sumpnz on January 16, 2023, 06:28:42 PM
I love my 48? Bluestar range.  Puts out lots of BTUs, more than a normal stove.  Had to upgrade to a 1? propane line for it even.  Never messed with induction stoves, and frankly see little need.  My stove gets the pans hot plenty fast as it is.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: bedlamite on January 16, 2023, 06:34:40 PM
She said the quiet part out loud ...

https://youtu.be/cqTY5nQyd4U?t=39
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: bedlamite on January 16, 2023, 08:03:41 PM
https://freebeacon.com/biden-administration/meet-the-green-energy-group-behind-the-study-thats-driving-calls-to-ban-gas-stoves/
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: K Frame on January 17, 2023, 07:08:09 AM
I SO want a house with a coal fireplace when I retire...
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: MechAg94 on January 17, 2023, 08:52:21 AM
My parent's property has enough wood to feed a fire place.  I can stick with wood. 

If you are in a position where you have to buy the fuel regardless, I can see using other stuff.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: HankB on January 17, 2023, 09:46:23 AM
No gas piped to my suburban neighborhood, so I've been stuck with an electric stove for a long time.

I would SO much prefer a gas range, but not wanting to go the big propane tank route, I'm stuck with electric.  =(   (Or worse . . . moving to somewhere within the city limits of Austin, TX, AKA Moscow on the Colorado.)

As for the greenies war on gas . . . <expletive> <expletive> string of <expletives>

Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: zahc on January 17, 2023, 10:03:26 AM
So are they going to try to ban fire places?  If gas stoves cause harmful pollutants, I am sure a fire place would do the same. 

I don't have a fire place.  I saw a video recently on a portable propane heater I liked.  I may have to go ahead and get that.

Fireplaces have vents. So do gas furnaces and water heaters. In fact last winter my gas furnace crapped out because it has a sensor in the exhaust to verify the pressure in the exhaust to make sure the exhaust is actually exhausting, and the sensor failed. Gas ranges are the only gas appliance that just spews into the living space with no ventilation. And cheap houses and apartments often have no vent hood, which always seemed wrong in the first place if you actually use your range for cooking. Under these circumstances, it seems like a reasonable thing to do would be update building codes to require ventilation for gas ranges, like all decent houses and commercial kitchens do anyway. But it seems our only tool is to ban things now.

Long ago, in a more civilized age known as "the nineties", a similar problem was handled in a reasonable way when 3-wire electric dryers were phased out. Everyone knew they were dangerous and should use 4-wire circuits, so in 1996 they changed the rules so 3-wire dryers could not be sold anymore. And building codes were changed so it was illegal to install 3-wire receptacles in any new construction or remodel. But you were still allowed to install a 3-wire cord on a new dryer in order to use a new dryer in an old house. If you had an old 3-wire dryer and moved to a new house, well, you were out of luck but that was probably an old dryer anyway at that point. I suppose if our current government were in place in 1996 then they would have just banned dryers because clotheslines are better for the environment anyway.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: MechAg94 on January 17, 2023, 03:54:17 PM
That is a good point.  I would love to have a vent over my stove.  Unfortunately, the house doesn't have one. 

Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: dogmush on January 17, 2023, 04:22:18 PM
Honestly any indoor cooktop probably needs ventilation.  Most cooking oils break down into stuff you don't want to breath once they start smoking.  Over heated teflon is, IIRC, incredibly bad for you.  As was mentioned upthread, houses are much more airtight than they used to be, so the natural airflow of our grandma's probably no longer cuts it.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Ben on January 17, 2023, 04:27:56 PM
I was thinking all homes with gas stoves had a vent. Every place I ever lived, including a condo, had a vent, even with electric stoves.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: sumpnz on January 17, 2023, 04:31:03 PM
If you keep birds in your house, mostly parrot species, but any bird really, overheating a Teflon pan will kill the bird.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: HeroHog on January 17, 2023, 04:33:03 PM
When using the oven or a burner on high, I turn the vent hood fan on low to suck that heat OUT!
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: K Frame on January 17, 2023, 06:46:25 PM
I was thinking all homes with gas stoves had a vent. Every place I ever lived, including a condo, had a vent, even with electric stoves.

I have an electric stove and I have a vent hood.

Unfortunately, the vent is a recirculator type. It's not vented to the outside because of where my kitchen is.

Pulls the air through a mesh grease filter and then through a carbon filter. Does a... passable job. When I use it.

But as you can imagine, it doesn't do squat to get rid of heat. Which is the biggest reason I got the induction burner.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: MechAg94 on January 17, 2023, 08:02:35 PM
I have an electric stove and I have a vent hood.

Unfortunately, the vent is a recirculator type. It's not vented to the outside because of where my kitchen is.

Pulls the air through a mesh grease filter and then through a carbon filter. Does a... passable job. When I use it.

But as you can imagine, it doesn't do squat to get rid of heat. Which is the biggest reason I got the induction burner.
My stove has that.  Didn't come with any filters.  Just recirculates.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: K Frame on January 17, 2023, 08:23:21 PM
My stove has that.  Didn't come with any filters.  Just recirculates.

I would advise looking for an owner's manual for it and seeing if it was actually designed that way (I can't believe that it was) or if something was left out.

I can't imagine why anyone would even bother to put in a recirculator vent hood without a charcoal filter and a grease screen.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: sumpnz on January 18, 2023, 12:44:03 AM
We got a Vent-a-Hood for the Bluestar.  Really need to install it.  It’s rated for I think 1200cfm, at the outlet in the roof.  The way most hoods are rated it would be more like 1800cfm. 
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: 230RN on January 18, 2023, 01:15:41 AM
Do you want to get shot? 'cause that's a damn good way to get yourself shot.
 [ar15]

Hence the burning ongoing endless efforts to eliminate guns from our hands.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: MechAg94 on January 18, 2023, 10:26:45 AM
I would advise looking for an owner's manual for it and seeing if it was actually designed that way (I can't believe that it was) or if something was left out.

I can't imagine why anyone would even bother to put in a recirculator vent hood without a charcoal filter and a grease screen.
I recall the manual said which filters to get, but it didn't come with any.  I should still have the manual.  I may have to look it up and order a set. 
I thought it was just a paper filter.  A charcoal filter that absorbs the smoke/grease would be good.  Maybe it wouldn't set off my smoke alarm so easily.   =)
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: K Frame on January 18, 2023, 10:28:38 AM
That's exactly what the charcoal filter is for, to absorb smoke and odors.

I don't use my range hood all that often, but I decidedly do when I'm searing meat or anything that might get a smokey.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Ben on February 01, 2023, 03:32:12 PM
This has to be trolling by DeSantis.  :rofl:

Quote
The Framework for Freedom budget abolishes sales tax for:
- Baby necessities including diapers, wipes, clothes, strollers and cribs
- Over-the-counter pet medications
- Gas stoves

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2023/02/01/cant-wait-to-see-how-libs-will-negatively-spin-ron-desantis-bold-move-to-help-florida-families/
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: WLJ on February 02, 2023, 09:42:11 AM
More gas fun
Makes you wonder what's going on.
Yes this is related to gas stoves.

Quote
San Diego restaurant owners are demanding action over the city's soaring energy prices after their natural gas bill spiked $6,000 – equivalent to a 400% surge – in just one month.

San Diego restaurant sees natural gas bill soar $6k in one month: They're 'running us out of here'
https://www.foxnews.com/media/san-diego-restaurant-sees-natural-gas-bill-soar-6k-one-month-theyre-running-us-here
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: K Frame on February 02, 2023, 10:57:25 AM
And even MORE gas stove fun...

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/energy-department-proposes-tighter-efficiency-standards-gas-electric-stoves-ovens
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: WLJ on February 02, 2023, 11:05:00 AM
And even MORE gas stove fun...

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/energy-department-proposes-tighter-efficiency-standards-gas-electric-stoves-ovens

Typical dem tactic
If they can't ban something outright they make it too expensive for anyone but the elites
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: RoadKingLarry on February 02, 2023, 11:32:59 AM
Bugs don't require a lot of cooking.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: JTHunter on February 03, 2023, 03:38:41 PM
One news article I heard recently was that gas appliances tend to raise the value of house as they are deemed more desirable.
I can see that because, in the event of a power outage, your stove, oven, water heater, and furnace will continue to operate, although the furnace will need a portable generator to supply electricity to run the blower.  But that only requires 110v and not the 220/240 and electric furnace needs.
Plus, a gas stove is "ON" instantly while the electric takes time to heat up enough to do anything.
And let's not forget about those "transmission losses" (usually as "heat") from the high tension lines and transformers before the electricity ever reaches your house or business.
  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: TechMan on February 03, 2023, 03:54:27 PM
One news article I heard recently was that gas appliances tend to raise the value of house as they are deemed more desirable.
I can see that because, in the event of a power outage, your stove, oven, water heater, and furnace will continue to operate, although the furnace will need a portable generator to supply electricity to run the blower.  But that only requires 110v and not the 220/240 and electric furnace needs.
Plus, a gas stove is "ON" instantly while the electric takes time to heat up enough to do anything.
And let's not forget about those "transmission losses" (usually as "heat") from the high tension lines and transformers before the electricity ever reaches your house or business.
  :facepalm:

Would have to agree.  We just moved into a house with gas appliances and this is the 1st time we've had a gas stove and I love it.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: K Frame on February 03, 2023, 04:26:39 PM
Montgomery County, Maryland, banned gas in new construction last year, I believe.

For sale signs are now including signs saying the a property has, or can have, gas.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Jim147 on February 03, 2023, 10:50:42 PM
We had to sell the MIL's house in December and that was something we corrected quick with the relator was that it was a gas cooktop not electric.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: French G. on February 03, 2023, 11:14:49 PM
One news article I heard recently was that gas appliances tend to raise the value of house as they are deemed more desirable.
I can see that because, in the event of a power outage, your stove, oven, water heater, and furnace will continue to operate, although the furnace will need a portable generator to supply electricity to run the blower.  But that only requires 110v and not the 220/240 and electric furnace needs.
Plus, a gas stove is "ON" instantly while the electric takes time to heat up enough to do anything.
And let's not forget about those "transmission losses" (usually as "heat") from the high tension lines and transformers before the electricity ever reaches your house or business.
  :facepalm:

As for transmission losses I think the electric stove may still win on efficiency. Huge amount of waste heat with the gas stove. But I specifically switched to gas. In the winter that heat isn't waste. It does run when the power is out but the ovens do not due to controls. I need to get a small UPS to run the stove fully.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Jim147 on February 04, 2023, 12:49:13 AM
As for transmission losses I think the electric stove may still win on efficiency. Huge amount of waste heat with the gas stove. But I specifically switched to gas. In the winter that heat isn't waste. It does run when the power is out but the ovens do not due to controls. I need to get a small UPS to run the stove fully.

Most ignitors draw about 3.2 amps. Just so you know what to look for.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: HankB on February 04, 2023, 08:58:53 AM
One news article I heard recently was that gas appliances tend to raise the value of house as they are deemed more desirable.
I can see that because, in the event of a power outage, your stove, oven, water heater, and furnace will continue to operate, although the furnace will need a portable generator to supply electricity to run the blower.  But that only requires 110v and not the 220/240 and electric furnace needs.
Plus, a gas stove is "ON" instantly while the electric takes time to heat up enough to do anything.
And let's not forget about those "transmission losses" (usually as "heat") from the high tension lines and transformers before the electricity ever reaches your house or business.
  :facepalm:
I grew up in a house with gas stove, water heater, and furnace and I would GREATLY prefer that to my current "all electric" house - but when I moved here, gas meant either a great big propane tank or paying more to live in a house in an area I didn't like.

Hmmm . . . "transmission losses" (usually as "heat") . . . wonder if we can turn that around on the greenies and tell them all those wires to supply electricity for electric cars and such are really great big heating elements . . .  >:D
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: MechAg94 on February 04, 2023, 10:06:38 AM
As for transmission losses I think the electric stove may still win on efficiency. Huge amount of waste heat with the gas stove. But I specifically switched to gas. In the winter that heat isn't waste. It does run when the power is out but the ovens do not due to controls. I need to get a small UPS to run the stove fully.
You can call it waste heat, sure, but my gas bill is small compared to my electric bill.  Also, when the power is out, my water heater still works and I can still use the burners on my stove. 
If you have a backup generator, that makes up for it a lot.  My neighborhood has underground power and we are on the line supplying the local hospital.  We have outages once in a while, but they rarely last very long.

I will have to ask my Dad what he deals with for his propane tank, but that doesn't sound so bad to me to have some conveniences that will work no matter what happens to the power. 
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Tuco on February 04, 2023, 02:33:09 PM
They can have my Svea when they pry it from my charred, smoking fingers.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: K Frame on February 04, 2023, 05:58:52 PM
They can have my Svea when they pry it from my charred, smoking fingers.

Thinking of joining the Branch Davidians?
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: French G. on February 04, 2023, 09:30:40 PM
Thinking of joining the Branch Davidians?

Too old.

I skipped my gas stove tonight, went and retrieved the stainless grate from my homebuilt grill, tossed it in the fireplace once the oak was burnt down to coals. Steak! and glorious air pollution of course.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: K Frame on April 18, 2023, 09:24:48 AM
Berkley, California's natural gas ban just got banned.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/federal-appeals-court-strikes-down-democratic-city-s-natural-gas-ban-backed-by-biden-admin/ar-AA19YJSR?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=e5e984fe72f3456ea673ddc0cd2ff570&ei=312
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: WLJ on May 03, 2023, 12:39:13 PM
Meanwhile in NY

Quote
The law bans gas-powered stoves, furnaces and propane heating and effectively encourages the use of climate-friendly appliances such as heat pumps and induction stoves in most new residential buildings across the state. It requires all-electric heating and cooking in new buildings shorter than seven stories by 2026, and for taller buildings by 2029.

But they're getting "pushback" from  "fossil fuel interests"
So I guess if you don't like it you're a "fossil fuel interest"

New York becomes the first state to ban natural gas stoves and furnaces in most new buildings
https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/03/us/new-york-natural-gas-ban-climate/index.html
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: WLJ on May 09, 2023, 05:26:11 PM
Gas stoves effect "underserved communities" (aka minorities) more so ban them.

Quote
    NEW: Today, I’m leading 11 AGs calling for federal action to address the health & safety risks of gas stoves, which emit pollutants that have a disparate negative impact on children & underserved communities and put DC residents at risk of asthma and other respiratory illnesses.

    — AG Brian Schwalb (@DCAttorneyGen) May 8, 2023

Eleven attorneys general target gas stoves, which have a disparate impact on underserved communities
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2023/05/09/eleven-attorneys-general-target-gas-stoves-which-have-a-disparate-impact-on-underserved-communities/
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Hawkmoon on May 09, 2023, 06:19:35 PM
Are they going to eliminate gas ranges in commercial kitchens? Because the vast majority of commercial kitchens use gas ranges.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: sumpnz on May 09, 2023, 06:45:15 PM
I don’t care how good induction stoves are supposed to be.  I won’t give up my gas range.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: RoadKingLarry on May 09, 2023, 09:24:59 PM
Are they going to eliminate gas ranges in commercial kitchens? Because the vast majority of commercial kitchens use gas ranges.

Most of the proposed legislation I've looked at have a blanket ban on NG in any new construction.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: WLJ on May 18, 2023, 11:16:04 AM
Some animals are more equal than others.

Quote
In Palo Alto, California, local administrators have given an exemption to celebrity chef José Andrés that will allow his new restaurant to use gas stoves.

"Faced with a threat of a lawsuit, Palo Alto administrators have reversed their earlier decision and will now allow the new restaurant that chef José Andrés plans to open at Stanford Shopping Center to use natural gas," Palo Alto Online reported.

Simon Property Group (SPG) originally applied to build this restaurant in 2019, receiving local approvals before the city council revised the building codes which required all new buildings to be electric. The developer installed a gas line into the building before city officials instructed that the building would have to be updated to the new code.
Quote
The attorney continued by arguing how it would alter the "caliber" of the food and would force the five-star restaurant to change its menu.

"Without a gas connection and appliances, Zaytinya would be forced to alter its signature five-star menu, which it is unwilling to do," Shimko wrote. "Zaytinya cannot compromise the caliber of its cuisine and reputation, and if SPG cannot provide gas in Building EE, Zaytinya will likely choose not to locate within the City. This would be an unfortunate loss for the residents of Palo Alto, as well as a compensable loss for which SPG would be forced to seek redress."

California city gives celebrity chef José Andrés an exemption for his restaurant to use gas stoves
https://www.foxnews.com/media/california-city-gives-celebrity-chef-jose-andres-exemption-restaurant-use-gas-stoves
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: charby on June 07, 2023, 07:59:34 AM
Looks like the pettiness between the "Freedom Caucus" and the current speaker of the house, is going to get gas stoves banned.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gas-stove-procedural-defeat-puts-fragility-mccarthys-speakership/story?id=99881238

Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Ben on June 07, 2023, 08:05:01 AM
Gas furnaces are next:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-admin-preparing-target-americans-gas-furnaces-amid-stove-crackdown
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: charby on June 07, 2023, 08:36:51 AM
Gas furnaces are next:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-admin-preparing-target-americans-gas-furnaces-amid-stove-crackdown

Leftists better fall in love with nuclear, because that is going to take a lot of energy to heat the northern states. Move everyone south and you have the energy usage of cooling.

Electric everything, vehicles, stoves and furnaces. Better start spending trillions on upgrading electricity production and the grid.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: WLJ on June 07, 2023, 08:46:29 AM
Leftists better fall in love with nuclear, because that is going to take a lot of energy to heat the northern states. Move everyone south and you have the energy usage of cooling.

Electric everything, vehicles, stoves and furnaces. Better start spending trillions on upgrading electricity production and the grid.

In the idea leftest world you won't need electricity.

(https://media.gettyimages.com/id/1300605405/video/drone-view-of-an-african-village.jpg?s=640x640&k=20&c=tchN21Fcz2PGnmTjFg81pIOiga2cIz8wYXET5KNMmOw=)

Meanwhile the elites

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ac/a8/45/aca845725a75871141e3f7b50f63dd13--my-dream-house-my-house.jpg)
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Ben on June 07, 2023, 09:01:27 AM
Leftists better fall in love with nuclear, because that is going to take a lot of energy to heat the northern states. Move everyone south and you have the energy usage of cooling.

Electric everything, vehicles, stoves and furnaces. Better start spending trillions on upgrading electricity production and the grid.

It will be interesting in electricity starved California as well. I don't know the percentages, but I believe I never once lived in or visited anyplace in CA that wasn't gas heated. I was actually kind of shocked to see so much electric (via heat pump) heating here in Potatoho.

EDIT: I take that back - I remember a few places that had subfloor/baseboard heating, which was becoming popular with rich liberals who could afford the install.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: WLJ on June 07, 2023, 09:05:33 AM
The choices they're setting us for us.
Do I charge the car so that I can go to work tomorrow or do I instead turn on the heat so that the kids don't freeze to death tonight? Honey, how are we doing on Soylent Green?
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: HankB on June 07, 2023, 09:13:22 AM
It will be interesting in electricity starved California as well. I don't know the percentages, but I believe I never once lived in or visited anyplace in CA that wasn't gas heated. I was actually kind of shocked to see so much electric (via heat pump) heating here in Potatoho.
I remember when CA was experiencing blackouts and brownouts under Gov. Gray Davis. Someone in California proposed - seriously - that the Federal government require Nevada to send California all the extra electricity they needed. If Nevada consequently came up short, Idaho, Utah, and Arizona would be required to send them enough power to replace what they were going to send to California. Colorado and New Mexico in turn would have to make up any resulting shortages in Idaho, Utah, and Arizona. And so forth and so on - their proposal involved California calling the shots on electrical distribution all the way East as far as Indiana.

This proposal went nowhere, but I I'm positive that it's still in someone's desk, ready to be dusted off and resubmitted as soon as their all-electric mandates start having the unintended - but entirely foreseeable - negative consequences.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: RocketMan on June 07, 2023, 09:21:46 AM
Those bills weren't going anywhere, they were moot anyway.  They would not have passed in the Senate.  And if by some miracle they did, Biden would have vetoed them.
This provided the folks disappointed with McCarthy's leadership an opportunity to express their opinions.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: charby on June 07, 2023, 09:22:37 AM
I was actually kind of shocked to see so much electric (via heat pump) heating here in Potatoho.

It takes a lot to put in a NG infrastructure, I'm guessing at the time Idaho wasn't that populated when the Rural Electrification Act occurred, and folks still heated with wood/coal. Low population density means low smog indexes too. So, a carryover from stuff that happened 70-80 years ago.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: charby on June 07, 2023, 09:24:38 AM
Those bills weren't going anywhere, they were moot anyway.  They would not have passed in the Senate.  And if by some miracle they did, Biden would have vetoed them.

Yes, but it still shows due to political pettiness that the conservatives will vote against their own principles to burn someone deemed less conservative to try and prove a point.

They need to take a lesson from the democrats and vote in lockstep when needed.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: RocketMan on June 07, 2023, 09:25:01 AM
It takes a lot to put in a NG infrastructure, I'm guessing at the time Idaho wasn't that populated when the Rural Electrification Act occurred, and folks still heated with wood/coal. Low population density means low smog indexes too. So, a carryover from stuff that happened 70-80 years ago.

Idaho has always benefitted from the abundant hydropower in the PNW.  And of course, lefties are doing their best to tear down those dams that provide the hydropower in that region.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: RocketMan on June 07, 2023, 09:26:58 AM
Yes, but it still shows due to political pettiness that the conservatives will vote against their own principles to burn someone deemed less conservative to try and prove a point.

They need to take a lesson from the democrats and vote in lockstep when needed.

The Republicans aren't called "The Stupid Party" for nothing.  That moniker has been well earned.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Ben on June 07, 2023, 09:30:08 AM
Idaho has always benefitted from the abundant hydropower in the PNW.  And of course, lefties are doing their best to tear down those dams that provide the hydropower in that region.

Yup. Super cheap and abundant electricity here. And yeah, even one of the Republican congressmen is pushing for dam removal, probably due to contributions from the recreational fishing orgs.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: WLJ on June 07, 2023, 09:57:41 AM
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/29773_460s.jpg)

As a side note I've lost count of the number of times when responding to a "the computer won't turn on" call only to find this under the desk.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: sumpnz on June 07, 2023, 10:19:32 AM
With the push to electrify everything, charby is right that the left needs to embrace realistic means of producing the electricity needed to power everything.  Otherwise even the average person will revolt.  That average person might be willing to go along with the idea of climate change, and that “fossil fuels” are bad.  But they won’t appreciate being made to chose between heat in the winter (or ac in summer) and being able to cook dinner or being able to drive to work, etc.  Being forced to decide things like that, instead of having it all, makes them cranky.

I’ve done the math on charging BEV big rig trucks.  If the whole fleet were converted to BEV it would take 50-100% of the total national electricity supply from 2022 to keep them running down the road.  There is no way we will be able to double or more electricity production with wind and solar.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: MechAg94 on June 07, 2023, 11:06:39 AM
Trying to connect the left to anything resembling "reality" these days is a lost cause.  There are a lot of things that would be acceptable if it were well run and well designed, that never happens. 

As far as the Republicans, I don't know what else is in this bill.  If they were just going to pull out the "gas oven" part, it makes me wonder what else they are rolling over for. 
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: cordex on June 07, 2023, 11:07:29 AM
Wait, if we're all eating zee booogs, do we even need to heat them up?
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: RoadKingLarry on June 07, 2023, 11:51:47 AM
In the idea leftest world you won't need electricity.

(https://media.gettyimages.com/id/1300605405/video/drone-view-of-an-african-village.jpg?s=640x640&k=20&c=tchN21Fcz2PGnmTjFg81pIOiga2cIz8wYXET5KNMmOw=)

Meanwhile the elites

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ac/a8/45/aca845725a75871141e3f7b50f63dd13--my-dream-house-my-house.jpg)


Nope, way off. I see smoke from probable cooking fires. Those also will not be allowed, You can eat your bugs and grass raw as nature intended.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Pb on June 08, 2023, 12:39:16 PM

Nope, way off. I see smoke from probable cooking fires. Those also will not be allowed, You can eat your bugs and grass raw as nature intended.

I saw a map of air pollution, as measured by particulates.  It was very low in the USA... and I was surprised at how bad it was in Africa... I am guessing it may be due to cooking fires, which are actually very unhealthy, especially inside a house.

Here's the map I saw:

(https://www.power-eng.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/160927195715-air-pollution-map-who-exlarge-169.jpg)
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: RoadKingLarry on June 08, 2023, 04:49:22 PM
Anybody paying attention to the wildfires in Canada?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/canadian-wildfire-smoke-maps-air-quality-alerts/

I think the US needs to sue Canada for the pollution.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: sumpnz on June 08, 2023, 05:05:05 PM
Anybody paying attention to the wildfires in Canada?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/canadian-wildfire-smoke-maps-air-quality-alerts/

I think the US needs to sue Canada for the pollution.

That kind of thing is a near annual occurrence out west. 

They keep trying to blame climate change but whatever small increase in temperatures may have occurred (and yearly variations are at least an order of magnitude larger anyway) can’t be driving the problem.  The overzealous firefighting of the last century, and the more recent bans on slash burning, and environmentalists lawsuits to stop salvage logging of insect and fire killed trees have resulted in huge increases in the amount of fuel for fires.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: WLJ on November 18, 2023, 08:19:52 PM
JHFC
Wonder how much money went into his bank account for this?

Quote
President Joe Biden will use special wartime powers to boost US production of heat pumps, by funding nine manufacturing projects with $169 million from last year's climate bill, the Energy Department said on Friday.

The awards were granted under the emergency authority of the Cold War-era Defense Production Act (DPA), which Biden invoked on the basis of climate change to boost spending on clean energy technology.

'The President is using his wartime emergency powers under the Defense Production Act to turbocharge US manufacturing of clean technologies and strengthen our energy security,' said Biden's National Climate Advisor Ali Zaidi in a statement.

So if he's using Cold War era powers to combat global warming does that make this the Warm War?

Biden invokes emergency wartime powers to boost heat pump production with $169M in federal funds in administration's latest push to replace gas appliances
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12765207/Biden-heat-pump-DPA-wartime-climate-change.html
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Nick1911 on November 18, 2023, 10:31:28 PM
Meanwhile, the R410A refrigerant that those heat pumps are using... is being phased out by the EPA. 

Quote
The American Innovation and Manufacturing (AIM) Act authorizes EPA to phase down production and consumption of Hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs) in the United States by 85 percent by 2036.

Quotas will be tightened down yearly, and have already begun.  I am not aware of residential equipment using new A2L refrigerants being available at my supply house yet.

Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: zahc on November 19, 2023, 10:51:31 AM
Aren't they transitioning to propane? They already use it and I thought that was the future of refrigerants.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: cordex on November 19, 2023, 11:12:43 AM
My brand new heat pump is R410A. That sucks.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: WLJ on November 19, 2023, 11:17:53 AM
The govt: We are going to force you to use a heat pump
Also the govt: We are banning the refrigerant those heat pumps use.

Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Nick1911 on November 19, 2023, 04:17:18 PM
Aren't they transitioning to propane? They already use it and I thought that was the future of refrigerants.

Can't patent propane  :P

Small manufactured appliances can use straight up hydrocarbons.  Isobutane and cyclopentane being the most common.  As I understand it, the residential market is likely to end up with hydrofluoroolefins, which is a fancy way to say "Flouranated alkenes".
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: sumpnz on November 19, 2023, 05:29:35 PM
Can't patent propane  :P

Small manufactured appliances can use straight up hydrocarbons.  Isobutane and cyclopentane being the most common.  As I understand it, the residential market is likely to end up with hydrofluoroolefins, which is a fancy way to say "Flouranated alkenes".

Too bad ClF3 isn't a good refrigerant.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Jim147 on November 19, 2023, 07:18:19 PM
I'm getting too old and my customers too few for me to buy any equipment to do the new stuff. I've already turned down a few refrigerators because they could not get factory service down here.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: K Frame on November 20, 2023, 06:56:09 AM
Bring back methyl chloride and sulfur dioxide!

Make refrigerators great again!
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: charby on November 20, 2023, 07:27:10 AM
Bring back methyl chloride and sulfur dioxide!

Make refrigerators great again!

Ammonia being pumped by a coal fired boiler and steam engine. Backyard scale of course. 
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Boomhauer on November 20, 2023, 07:46:42 AM
The govt: We are going to force you to use a heat pump
Also the govt: We are banning the refrigerant those heat pumps use.



Gotta keep Dupont in the green with their miracle new R-$$$ once everybody and their brother start producing the refrigerant du jour
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: WLJ on November 24, 2023, 12:16:25 PM
Quote
    From our family to yours, happy Thanksgiving. pic.twitter.com/Nhifx0sHi5
    — Vice President Kamala Harris (@VP) November 23, 2023

Quote
Oh, look at that: a gas stove.

Rules For Thee, Not For Me: Twitter Notices Hypocritical Kamala Harris Has A Gas Stove
https://twitchy.com/amy-curtis/2023/11/24/kamala-harris-gas-stove-n2390116
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: WLJ on December 27, 2023, 12:02:57 PM
And she does it again.
At this point I'm starting to think it's intentional

Quote
Kamala Harris has been mocked online for the second time in two months after she posted a Christmas photo of herself cooking in a kitchen, featuring a gas stove.

Just last month Harris was roundly mocked when she posted a similar photo with her husband Doug Emhoff in their kitchen. Now, once again, the couple appeared standing next to a gas stove, this time for Christmas.

Kamala Harris is roasted for posting picture next to a gas stove AGAIN on Christmas Day - after Biden administration considered banning them over health concerns
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12901907/Kamala-Harris-roasted-posting-picture-gas-stove-Christmas-Day-Biden-administration-considered-banning-health-concerns.html
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: JTHunter on December 27, 2023, 11:03:52 PM
She is one of the "elites".  She gets a pass because of that.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: Perd Hapley on December 28, 2023, 01:38:59 AM
She is one of the "elites".  She gets a pass because of that.

The only ones professional enough to use gas appliances without killing Mother Earth.
Title: Re: Turn in your gas stoves
Post by: K Frame on January 03, 2024, 08:53:26 AM
This is interesting...

The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals just told the city of Berkley FU, your new gas connections ban is illegal, and no, the entire court doesn't need to hear it because it's illegal.

Of course, Berkley and the Biden administration, which was heavily in favor of Berkley's move and filed an amicus brief with the court, are screaming bloody murder. Or would it be green murder?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/appeals-court-delivers-fatal-blow-california-city-pushing-natural-gas-ban