Armed Polite Society

Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Hawkmoon on May 31, 2020, 10:08:52 PM



Title: Karen has been fired
Post by: Hawkmoon on May 31, 2020, 10:08:52 PM
The NYC Karen who called the cops when a black bird watcher called her out for letting her dog run loose in an area of Central Park where dogs must be leashed has been terminated.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/26/us/central-park-video-dog-video-african-american-trnd/?hpt=ob_blogfooterold

Turns out the guy isn't just "a" bird watcher, he's a board member of the New York City Audubon Society. Karen is a classic. She approaches him -- he asks her not to approach him -- so she calls the cops and tells them an African American man is threatening her life. Classic. And he has it all on video.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: RoadKingLarry on June 01, 2020, 02:34:13 AM
Karma has been served.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: zxcvbob on June 01, 2020, 06:04:42 AM
I don't like people being fired for what they do on their own time while not in any way representing the company.  Even if they are being despicable or embarrassing.  Also the punishment does not fit the crime, especially for the dog.  Ruin her life on social media?  I'm all for that.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Fly320s on June 01, 2020, 06:17:53 AM
I don't like people being fired for what they do on their own time while not in any way representing the company.  Even if they are being despicable or embarrassing.  Also the punishment does not fit the crime, especially for the dog.  Ruin her life on social media?  I'm all for that.

I agree with this.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: TommyGunn on June 01, 2020, 06:40:14 AM
I don't like people being fired for what they do on their own time while not in any way representing the company.  Even if they are being despicable or embarrassing.  Also the punishment does not fit the crime, especially for the dog.  Ruin her life on social media?  I'm all for that.

I agree ..... but in some ways it isn't new.   Many bigger firms traditionally had "morals clauses"   in their employment contracts that provided for possible consequences, even termination, for public actions that painted the company in a bad light.

In today's world with the internet and I phones we are all much more ..... "exposed"  than we were in 1965. Back then this incident could not have been videoed  or reported as efficiently and might have wound up only as a yellowing report in some precinct house in the bowels of the Naked City.  

Today we need to better employ that rarest of talents when in public;  common sense.

The consequences of not doing so will be on the innernetz forever.......


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: zxcvbob on June 01, 2020, 06:43:29 AM
I agree ..... but in some ways it isn't new.   Many bigger firms traditionally had "morals clauses"   in their employment contracts that provided for possible consequences, even termination, for public actions that painted the company in a bad light.

In today's world with the internet and I phones we are all much more ..... "exposed"  than we were in 1965. Back then this incident could not have been videoed  or reported as efficiently and might have wound up only as a yellowing report in some precinct house in the bowels of the Naked City.  

Today we need to better employ that rarest of talents when in public;  common sense.

The consequences of not doing so will be on the innernetz forever.......

IIRC, this did not paint the company in a bad light until they virtue signaled themselves into the situation.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: TommyGunn on June 01, 2020, 06:49:18 AM
IIRC, this did not paint the company in a bad light until they virtue signaled themselves into the situation.

Maybe .... maybe not.   I don't think it's really relevant though;  the woman was being an absolute jackwagon about the matter  and I'm not sure how relevant it is just how her employer came to know what happened.  The employer might have found out any number of ways other than what ever way actually happened.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: ConstitutionCowboy on June 01, 2020, 07:07:25 AM
I think her termination is justified. She obviously has a bit of a character flaw that could show up in her work in ways harmful to her employer or fellow employees regardless of whomever the employer is.  :old:

Woody


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: dogmush on June 01, 2020, 07:17:18 AM
IIRC, this did not paint the company in a bad light until they virtue signaled themselves into the situation.

Ish. The internet  doxxed her pretty quickly and I remember posts pointing out she worked for Franklin Templeton and suggestions that people contact them by like hour 12 of the whole thing.

Well before they made a public statement,  and then fired her.  IIRC she had their name on her public social media, so as soon as her name was known, her employer was dragged into it.

If that's the case they certainly have the right to take actions based on her actions in public.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 01, 2020, 07:18:18 AM
IIRC, this did not paint the company in a bad light until they virtue signaled themselves into the situation.

Until the company made a big deal about having suspended her, did anyone even know where she worked?

I agree that the punishment is overly severe for the offense. A two-week or so suspension without pay would perhaps have been more appropriate. That said, one might hope that this incident will serve as an object lesson for people who feel entitled and are prone to behaving in an entitled fashion where it isn't appropriate.

But, we might have thought the example of that baseball executive being canned for his remarks would have sent the same message. If it did, the message didn't reach this Karen.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: RoadKingLarry on June 01, 2020, 07:20:46 AM
Ish. The internet  doxxed her pretty quickly and I remember posts pointing out she worked for Franklin Templeton and suggestions that people contact them by like hour 12 of the whole thing.

Well before they made a public statement,  and then fired her.  IIRC she had their name on her public social media, so as soon as her name was known, her employer was dragged into it.

If that's the case they certainly have the right to take actions based on her actions in public.

That's why none on my social media info tells people I work for Verizon. :rofl:


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Ben on June 01, 2020, 07:59:34 AM
That's why none on my social media info tells people I work for Verizon. :rofl:

 :laugh:


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 01, 2020, 08:00:07 AM
That's why none on my social media info tells people I work for Verizon. :rofl:

This is (one more reason) why I don't have any "social media" accounts.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on June 01, 2020, 08:50:12 AM
I obfuscate my name on FB, use an email account for social media different than any used for job applications and such, and never list my employer. 


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Fly320s on June 01, 2020, 12:19:57 PM
I think her termination is justified. She obviously has a bit of a character flaw that could show up in her work in ways harmful to her employer or fellow employees regardless of whomever the employer is.  :old:

Woody

Some people think being conservative and owning guns is a character flaw.  If it hasn't happened yet, someone will get fired for owning guns.  Will that termination be justified?


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: kgbsquirrel on June 01, 2020, 01:12:40 PM
Some people think being conservative and owning guns is a character flaw.  If it hasn't happened yet, someone will get fired for owning guns.  Will that termination be justified?

Owning guns is not a demonstration of dishonesty; making a false police report is.  She was fired for demonstrating moral turpitude and criminality. 


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: dogmush on June 01, 2020, 01:16:19 PM
Strictly speaking making a false police report is a crime.

I think most employers reserve the right to fire employees that are caught on video committing a criminal act.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: kgbsquirrel on June 01, 2020, 01:19:22 PM
Strictly speaking making a false police report is a crime.

I think most employers reserve the right to fire employees that are caught on video committing a criminal act.

I thought that was understood by everyone in the conversation.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 01, 2020, 01:20:26 PM
Quote from: Constitution Cowboy
I think her termination is justified. She obviously has a bit of a character flaw that could show up in her work in ways harmful to her employer or fellow employees regardless of whomever the employer is.  Grumpy Old Man

Woody

Some people think being conservative and owning guns is a character flaw.  If it hasn't happened yet, someone will get fired for owning guns.  Will that termination be justified?

That's a valid point.

I had to give Woody's post some thought. How might her sense of entitlement and apparent bias against black people show up in her work? Of course, we don't know what her job is (was) within Franklin Templeton but, without getting into specifics, I considered the following possibility:

Karen makes a mistake -- a mistake that could potentially cost her employer significant $$$. Being entitled, Karen doesn't admit that she made a mistake. In fact, since we saw in the video that she was willing to lie to the police in order to be more assured that they would respond ("There's an African American man here who is threatening me"), is it reasonable to conjecture that she would lie about the mistake to cover her tracks and perhaps save her job? I think so. And she would probably try to pin respnsibility for her mistake on the person least able to defend him/herself.

Of course, that didn't happen (that we know of). Is it right to punish for potential wrongdoing, based entirely on what ifs? Probably not.

On the other hand, we don't know her track record with Franklin Templeton. We don't know if she was a star player in a key role, or if she was a bit player with marginal performance who already had one foot halfway out the door.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Jim147 on June 01, 2020, 02:44:45 PM
He admitted to saying if you are going to do whatever you want I. Going to do whatever I want and you won't like it . Right before he started filming.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 01, 2020, 03:04:39 PM
He admitted to saying if you are going to do whatever you want I. Going to do whatever I want and you won't like it . Right before he started filming.

Yes, and right after that he offered her do a doggie treat. When she approached him, he said clearly -- multiple times -- "Please don't come close to me." She was soooooo frightened that she approached him, and she ignored his request that she not come close to him.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: kgbsquirrel on June 01, 2020, 03:26:34 PM
Some people think being conservative and owning guns is a character flaw.  If it hasn't happened yet, someone will get fired for owning guns.  Will that termination be justified?


That's a valid point.

I had to give Woody's post some thought. How might her sense of entitlement and apparent bias against black people show up in her work? Of course, we don't know what her job is (was) within Franklin Templeton but, without getting into specifics, I considered the following possibility:

Karen makes a mistake -- a mistake that could potentially cost her employer significant $$$. Being entitled, Karen doesn't admit that she made a mistake. In fact, since we saw in the video that she was willing to lie to the police in order to be more assured that they would respond ("There's an African American man here who is threatening me"), is it reasonable to conjecture that she would lie about the mistake to cover her tracks and perhaps save her job? I think so. And she would probably try to pin respnsibility for her mistake on the person least able to defend him/herself.

Of course, that didn't happen (that we know of). Is it right to punish for potential wrongdoing, based entirely on what ifs? Probably not.

On the other hand, we don't know her track record with Franklin Templeton. We don't know if she was a star player in a key role, or if she was a bit player with marginal performance who already had one foot halfway out the door.

Potential wrong doing?  She perjured herself in an attempt to deprive another person their liberty.  There's plenty demonstrated actual wrongdoing.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Fly320s on June 01, 2020, 04:25:11 PM
Owning guns is not a demonstration of dishonesty; making a false police report is.  She was fired for demonstrating moral turpitude and criminality. 

True.  How about speeding?  That's a crime.  Does every employer reserve the right to fire someone who is guilty of speeding?  If not for speeding, what crime is serious enough?

For the record, she isn't guilty yet.  Not even sure she has been charged.

Also for the record, I think an employer should be able to terminate an employee for any reason at any time (unions, contracts, etc. not included).

The point I'm making here is that we have to draw the line somewhere between personal life and professional life.  If we are happy that this Karen got fired today, then we should be happy that one of us gets fired later.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: charby on June 01, 2020, 04:28:26 PM
NY is an At Will by contract, probably why she was able to be fired.

Many states are At Will by public policy, if you aren't under a contract you can be fired for anything, piss on the edge of the toilet, manager hates it, see ya buckaroo.



Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: zahc on June 01, 2020, 05:24:25 PM
Everyone seems to be ignoring the obvious...we have video evidence of her breaking the leashes rule. At the very least I want to see her slapped with the max fine for her dog. I mean racism is bad too but can she at least get a ticket?

I specifically take my kids places where loose dogs are not allowed, but it makes no difference. People have their dogs running loose right in front of the signs like it's their human right.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 01, 2020, 05:36:52 PM
True.  How about speeding?  That's a crime.  Does every employer reserve the right to fire someone who is guilty of speeding?  If not for speeding, what crime is serious enough?


Speeding is not a crime. Speeding is not even a misdemeanor. It's a civil infraction. Making a false police report is a crime.

Quote
The point I'm making here is that we have to draw the line somewhere between personal life and professional life.  If we are happy that this Karen got fired today, then we should be happy that one of us gets fired later.

I didn't say I'm happy she was fired. I do think she created the situation, but I also think firing is a bit over the top as a response. However, as I posted previously, wed on't know if she was a star player for her company or if she was a chronic screw-up who was on the verge of being terminated anyway.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: fistful on June 01, 2020, 08:12:53 PM
  Does every employer reserve the right to fire someone who is guilty of speeding?  If not for speeding, what crime is serious enough?

Legally speaking, why should anyone else have a say in who you hire or fire, or why?


Also, is Karen more of a Karen than the Karen who told her to leash her dog?


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Mike Irwin on June 02, 2020, 03:05:13 AM
Everyone seems to be missing the very important point that many employers will fire you if your actions, while not rising to a criminal nature, bring disrepute to the company and bring into question your ability to be a representative of the company and to be an effective member of the team.

How many people have we all heard of who have been terminated because of egregious tweets or facebook posts?

I've known a couple of people in my career who have lost their jobs because their actions have called into question their ability to work effectively with their coworkers.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Fly320s on June 02, 2020, 04:53:33 AM
Everyone seems to be missing the very important point that many employers will fire you if your actions, while not rising to a criminal nature, bring disrepute to the company and bring into question your ability to be a representative of the company and to be an effective member of the team.

I agree that companies should have that right/authority.

What I want to know/define is, "When does my professional life end and my personal life begin?"   At what point can I let down my guard and not have to worry about being fired for something I did on my own time?


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: DittoHead on June 02, 2020, 05:25:58 AM
What I want to know/define is, "When does my professional life end and my personal life begin?"   At what point can I let down my guard and not have to worry about being fired for something I did on my own time?

You would have to ask your employer that, right? They make that decision and if you're not happy with (or don't believe) their answer then you may not want to work for them.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: MechAg94 on June 02, 2020, 05:33:26 AM
I agree that companies should have that right/authority.

What I want to know/define is, "When does my professional life end and my personal life begin?"   At what point can I let down my guard and not have to worry about being fired for something I did on my own time?
If you think about something like a small town community, there is little separation.  People you see in your personal life might be the same ones you see in your professional life.  I think the idea there is complete separation is a product of big city anonymity.  It has always been the case that you need to control your behavior in public.  

I don't know if the woman deserved to get fired, but I have to wonder if what she did on that video reflects on what sort of employee she was.  Instead of just getting upset and walking away, she accused him of assault and called 911 (did she actually call 911 or just say she was going to?).  Her reaction was to lie and try to burn the guy.  Would he have gotten fired if he had been arrested for assault?  You are what you do.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: fistful on June 02, 2020, 05:40:21 AM
I've characterized the incident as Karen vs Karen. Is it really Karen vs George Zimmerman?


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: MechAg94 on June 02, 2020, 05:45:58 AM
I've characterized the incident as Karen vs Karen. Is it really Karen vs George Zimmerman?
Who knows.  I have no idea what sort of person the guy was.  He certainly could have done/said more than he is claiming which may have helped trigger her hysterics.  If she released a statement, I didn't see it. 


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Ben on June 02, 2020, 06:16:46 AM
Who knows.  I have no idea what sort of person the guy was.  He certainly could have done/said more than he is claiming which may have helped trigger her hysterics.  If she released a statement, I didn't see it. 

I mentioned in the original thread that I had read where he said (and admitted) to insinuating that the dog treats might be poison or something else bad for the dog (though as far as I know they were in fact treats). That is stupid if true and would help escalate the situation.

I still believe the woman has at least 80% of the blame. Also, like fistful, I think this was a couple of Karens colliding.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: ConstitutionCowboy on June 02, 2020, 06:59:09 AM
I agree that companies should have that right/authority.

What I want to know/define is, "When does my professional life end and my personal life begin?"   At what point can I let down my guard and not have to worry about being fired for something I did on my own time?

I don't see a gap between any of it. A person should Follow their moral code and have no doubts. A person's moral code should govern all they do in whatever situation and venue they find themselves.

Woody


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Pb on June 02, 2020, 07:06:05 AM
I mentioned in the original thread that I had read where he said (and admitted) to insinuating that the dog treats might be poison or something else bad for the dog (though as far as I know they were in fact treats). That is stupid if true and would help escalate the situation.

I still believe the woman has at least 80% of the blame. Also, like fistful, I think this was a couple of Karens colliding.

Yeah.

This is a nothing but a pair of idiots colliding.  That's all there is to it.

Why is this national news???  ???


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: zxcvbob on June 02, 2020, 07:42:52 AM
Yeah.

This is a nothing but a pair of idiots colliding.  That's all there is to it.

Why is this national news???  ???

Because we are addicted to being outraged.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 02, 2020, 08:59:08 AM
I've characterized the incident as Karen vs Karen. Is it really Karen vs George Zimmerman?

Not really. GZ followed the person of whom he was suspicious, even after the police told him he didn't need to do that. In this case, the black male Cooper was already where he was, watching birds, and she (the female Cooper, no relation) came along with her dog, merrily ignoring the leash law because she didn't like letting her dog run loose in the area where she is allowed to let her dog run loose. The male Cooper didn't call the cops, the female Cooper called the cops. And lied to them.

Should male Cooper have called the cops rather than talking to her about her violation of the leash law? I see a lot of paradoxical attitudes about that on Internet forums in general. On one hand, people say it's not necessary to call the cops on your neighbors, just ask them nicely to stop doing whatever it is they're doing that's wrong. Then we get incidents like this, and people say it wasn't his job to enforce the leash law. (Just like it wasn't that guy's job to enforce the handicapped parking law.) So ... which is it? Are we supposed to NOT be snitches, and address problems directly? Or are we always supposed to avoid confrontations and call the cops for everything?


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 02, 2020, 09:02:08 AM
I mentioned in the original thread that I had read where he said (and admitted) to insinuating that the dog treats might be poison or something else bad for the dog (though as far as I know they were in fact treats). That is stupid if true and would help escalate the situation.


I didn't read that into his statement at all, although she may have taken it that way. What he has said (after the fact) is that he routinely carries dog treats because he knows that many dog owners don't like having strangers give their dogs treats. I am prepared to accept that statement on its face value, because I have known more than two such dog owners.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: fistful on June 02, 2020, 10:11:27 AM
Not really. GZ followed the person of whom he was suspicious, even after the police told him he didn't need to do that.

The part in bold would appear to be apocryphal.


One could definitely make the case that Zimmerman comes out ahead in comparison. If I remember right, he had already been in contact with police about crimes in his neighborhood. He thought Martin was involved in such, and was following the police dispatcher's guidance and trying to answer her questions. (Or at least I seem to remember it was a her.) Unlike Mr. Cooper, he didn't confront the subject.

Not that I really have it in for Mr. Cooper. Just spitballin'.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: DittoHead on June 02, 2020, 10:54:24 AM
The part in bold would appear to be apocryphal.

Seems pretty accurate to me...

Quote from: https://youtu.be/6aVwPqXc-bk?t=113
Dispatcher: Are you following him?

Zimmerman: Yeah

Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.

Zimmerman: Ok


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: fistful on June 02, 2020, 11:17:04 AM
Seems pretty accurate to me...
Quote
Dispatcher: Are you following him?

Zimmerman: Yeah

Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.

Zimmerman: Ok

And? What happens after that? Hawkmoon said he followed Martin "even after the police told him he didn't need to."


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: JN01 on June 02, 2020, 12:24:56 PM
At that point Zimmerman headed back toward his car.  Then Martin, rather than continuing to his destination, came back to Zimmerman to give him a beat down.

Masaad Ayoob did a complete breakdown of the incident on his Backwoods Home blog. It is also in his book "Deadly Force- Understanding Your Right to Self Defense".  Ayoob was originally supposed to be an expert witness for the defense, but ended up not being used.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Mike Irwin on June 11, 2020, 03:31:50 AM
"At what point can I let down my guard and not have to worry about being fired for something I did on my own time?"

At the point you're able to make rational, cogent decisions when out and about in public.



Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 11, 2020, 09:17:20 AM
"At what point can I let down my guard and not have to worry about being fired for something I did on my own time?"

At the point you're able to make rational, cogent decisions when out and about in public.


Or maybe when you decide that when there are areas in which you can allow your dog to tun loose, you let your dog run loose in those areas rather than deliberately choosing to let your dog run loose in a leash zone because you don't like the other place.

I think they told us in 7th or 8th grade Social Studies class (what I think they now call "Civics") that society operates more or less on a contractual basis, under which everyone (theoretically) agrees to follow a common set of rules so that everyone knows what to expect.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on June 11, 2020, 02:48:15 PM
If you don't want your employer (and therefor your employment) impacted by what you do on your personal time, then you don't post who you work for on social media.

And, for the record, I don't have my employer listed on FB precisely because of this, even though Katie said she doesn't care if my internet hi jinks get me in trouble with customers.

I can totally see this being a legitimate reason to fire someone. People have to work with this woman and I'm betting they've seen the video, too. Clients of the business have seen the video and they probably don't want to deal with her. either.

What you do in private can totally impact your employment. Everything from failing to maintain personal hygiene to being a dumbass on a viral video impacts your desirability as an employee.

It all boils down to "don't be an ass" because nobody likes dealing with an ass.

Also, I think an animal cruelty charge wouldn't be out of order. Choking out her dog was where I lost it. I didn't even make it too "African American man" before I wanted to curb stomp that *wow such a strong word to use, check your anger at the door*.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Mike Irwin on June 12, 2020, 03:24:02 AM
I rarely, if ever, allude to where I work, and especially not the customers I support, in open forums. But, my LinkedIn profile does have my employer listed, so it wouldn't be hard to figure out.

But, even that's not blanket immunity from my actions if something were to go south. My company has some pretty strict social media policies, and if I were to engage in major jackassery online, and it gets back to them, I could be fired.





Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: ConstitutionCowboy on June 12, 2020, 06:06:40 AM
Or maybe when you decide that when there are areas in which you can allow your dog to tun loose, you let your dog run loose in those areas rather than deliberately choosing to let your dog run loose in a leash zone because you don't like the other place.

I think they told us in 7th or 8th grade Social Studies class (what I think they now call "Civics") that society operates more or less on a contractual basis, under which everyone (theoretically) agrees to follow a common set of rules so that everyone knows what to expect.

AKA: There is no freedom without the law.

Woody


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: zxcvbob on June 15, 2020, 11:54:38 AM
How about this one?  https://nypost.com/2020/06/15/husband-of-lisa-alexander-fired-from-wealth-management-firm/  Fired because your wife is a busybody?  I don't think they've alleged that "Mr Karen" did anything wrong.  What's next?


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: MechAg94 on June 15, 2020, 01:19:43 PM
How about this one?  https://nypost.com/2020/06/15/husband-of-lisa-alexander-fired-from-wealth-management-firm/  Fired because your wife is a busybody?  They don't think they've alleged that "Mr Karen" did anything wrong.  What's next?
The article said he is one taking the video of the original encounter.  So he was sort of involved even if not the person on video.  Since he has a different name I am not certain why it connected back to his company.  I guess people knew him and her.

The question I have is why the felt they need to post the video online.  I can see taking video if you think police need to be called, but why post it?  Also sounds like they had a neighbor who they didn't seem to know or at least recognize.  


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 15, 2020, 04:23:45 PM
I find it intriguing that, just like the Karen in Central Park, this Karen also felt it necessary to lie. The other one told the police that a Black man had threatened her. This Karen told the owner of the property that she -- personally -- knew the owner of the property.

I have never associated lying with white privilege, but perhaps I've been overlooking something potentially important. Maybe it's like Islam. Muslims are allowed to lie to infidels when it furthers the spread of Islam. Are white Karens taught that it's okay to lie when it advances their social cause du jour?


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: MechAg94 on June 16, 2020, 04:39:15 AM
I think people get in the habit of dismissing the small lies to the point that it is habit.  Some take it further than that.  Maybe she never had it crash back on her like this before or was oblivious to previous consequences.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: fifth_column on June 16, 2020, 05:00:44 AM
I find it intriguing that, just like the Karen in Central Park, this Karen also felt it necessary to lie. The other one told the police that a Black man had threatened her. This Karen told the owner of the property that she -- personally -- knew the owner of the property.

I have never associated lying with white privilege, but perhaps I've been overlooking something potentially important. Maybe it's like Islam. Muslims are allowed to lie to infidels when it furthers the spread of Islam. Are white Karens taught that it's okay to lie when it advances their social cause du jour?

I believe it's more than just SJWs trying to further their social causes.  In my experience, many people feel justified in lying in order to get what they want, whatever it is.  The ends justify the means for many people.  It seems the left attracts those people.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: MechAg94 on June 16, 2020, 05:46:52 AM
I believe it's more than just SJWs trying to further their social causes.  In my experience, many people feel justified in lying in order to get what they want, whatever it is.  The ends justify the means for many people.  It seems the left attracts those people.
That view is a trap.  I was told many times as a kid that the ends do not justify the means.  I wonder how many kids are told that these days, or learn it on their own.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: fifth_column on June 16, 2020, 06:59:33 AM
That view is a trap.  I was told many times as a kid that the ends do not justify the means.  I wonder how many kids are told that these days, or learn it on their own.

I meant these people feel that the ends justify the means, I don't subscribe to that philosophy myself.  I could have written that more clearly originally.  I can relate many, many anecdotes of people doing or saying absolutely anything in order to get what they want.  My main point is that the behavior is exhibited in every aspect of a Karen's life, not just the political.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: MechAg94 on June 16, 2020, 07:33:41 AM
I meant these people feel that the ends justify the means, I don't subscribe to that philosophy myself.  I could have written that more clearly originally.  I can relate many, many anecdotes of people doing or saying absolutely anything in order to get what they want.  My main point is that the behavior is exhibited in every aspect of a Karen's life, not just the political.
Agreed.  I was thinking the general view she has of "the ends justifying the means" is a trap.  You can get away with it for a while, but eventually you pay for it. 


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: JN01 on June 16, 2020, 08:57:38 AM
Agreed.  I was thinking the general view she has of "the ends justifying the means" is a trap.  You can get away with it for a while, but eventually you pay for it. 

I don't know, there are some incumbent politicians that get away with it in decades long careers, in this life anyway.  God will settle things in the end.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: kgbsquirrel on June 16, 2020, 05:08:38 PM
I don't know, there are some incumbent politicians that get away with it in decades long careers, in this life anyway.  God will settle things in the end.

Doubtful.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 16, 2020, 05:55:29 PM
I don't know, there are some incumbent politicians that get away with it in decades long careers, in this life anyway.  God will settle things in the end.

I dunno. If it's true that we get the government we deserve, I hate to think what atrocities I must have committed in some past life to ge burdned with political "leaders" like Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Doggy Daddy on June 17, 2020, 05:46:25 PM
I dunno. If it's true that we get the government we deserve, I hate to think what atrocities I must have committed in some past life to ge burdned with political "leaders" like Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer.

That atrocity is the same for many of us: Failure to relieve ourselves of that burden.  And that would be in this current life.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: fistful on June 17, 2020, 06:03:18 PM
Chuck Schumer.

That guy definitely believes the ends justify the means. (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/harry-reid-is-proud-he-lied-about-mitt-romneys-taxes)


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 17, 2020, 06:26:39 PM
That guy definitely believes the ends justify the means. (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/harry-reid-is-proud-he-lied-about-mitt-romneys-taxes)

Q: How do you know when a politician is lying?

A: [____]


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: ConstitutionCowboy on June 18, 2020, 06:25:20 AM
That guy definitely believes the ends justify the means. (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/harry-reid-is-proud-he-lied-about-mitt-romneys-taxes)

That said, there is nothing that justifies his ends.

Woody


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Hawkmoon on July 06, 2020, 08:16:33 PM
Update: Karen (a.k.a. Amy Cooper) has now been charged with making a false police report.

https://theweek.com/speedreads/923971/new-york-woman-who-called-police-black-birdwatcher-charged-filing-false-report

Her attorney needs to get a clue:

Quote
After the incident, Amy Cooper was fired from her job. In a statement, her lawyer, Robert Barnes, said his client will be found not guilty, adding, "She lost her job, her home, and her public life. Now some demand her freedom? How many lives are we going to destroy over misunderstood 60-second videos on social media?" When asked for comment, Christian Cooper told The New York Times he had "zero involvement" in the district attorney's case.

Mr. Barnes, there was no misunderstanding. Your client called the police and lied to them. End of discussion.

I think this ties in with the link I posted elsewhere about the United States having too many laws. As that article stated:

Quote
What Americans forget, as Iranians have forgotten, is that self-policing is a much better option than the police. Self-policing will not protect everybody from harm because there will always be breakers of laws. But policing, while necessary, cannot replace the need for a virtuous citizenry. There is a greater cost for a society overly regulated by the government than one which is regulated by virtue, shame, and communities.

Proper behavior used to be regarded as a social contract, and laws were needed only to define the parameters of that contract. For most people, proper, ethical behavior was a personal responsibility, a moral imperative. It's sad that we have been moving away from that ... and the movement seems to be accelerating exponentially.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Jim147 on July 06, 2020, 08:24:49 PM
He admitted threatening her. Don't forget that part the media keeps leaving out. They are both dumbasses but i think she will walk


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Hawkmoon on July 06, 2020, 08:25:50 PM
He admitted threatening her. Don't forget that part the media keeps leaving out. They are both dumbasses but i think she will walk


When and how did he admit threatening her?


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: TommyGunn on July 06, 2020, 08:29:48 PM
Iirc it wasn't a overt threat,  it was implied....about giving the dog some treats that might ....or might not ??? be poison.   It may have been a ploy to get the dog away from her and break whatever discipline she had ( :rofl: )  over the dog.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Jim147 on July 06, 2020, 08:31:28 PM
This is a long read from today but I can search back to the original story and find this if you want.

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2020/07/06/white-woman-who-called-the-cops-on-black-bird-watcher-faces-misdemeanor-charge-though-some-say-she-was-trying-to-get-him-killed/

If you are going to do what you want I'm going to do what I want and you won't like it.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Hawkmoon on July 06, 2020, 09:45:17 PM
Iirc it wasn't a overt threat,  it was implied....about giving the dog some treats that might ....or might not ??? be poison.   It may have been a ploy to get the dog away from her and break whatever discipline she had ( :rofl: )  over the dog.

I am well aware that Mr. Cooper made that statement. I didn't think of it as a threat then, and I don't think of it as a threat now. It certainly wasn't a threat against her life.

Mr. Cooper stated (after the fact) that he routinely carries doggie treats, and that he knows many owners don't like strangers giving their dogs treats. My supposition was -- and is -- that this is because many people prefer to only have their dogs respond to their commands. If a dog goes around accepting handouts from strangers, the owner's control is reduced.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Jim147 on July 06, 2020, 11:36:52 PM
Think of it as someone saying it to your wife or daughter alone. I don't care what color the person is.

How is that not a threat? Not the snacks you are not going to like it part?

Convince me.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Pb on July 07, 2020, 05:45:15 AM
"ôLook, if youĺre going to do what you want, Iĺm going to do what I want, but youĺre not going to like it.ö

Yeah, sounds like thinly veiled threat to me- from one idiot to another.

LEOs and the courts shouldn't waste one minute of their time on these two bozos.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: dogmush on July 07, 2020, 06:45:20 AM
While not disputing the two idiots theory,  remember that she reported there was a man "Threatening her life".

That's more than just a veiled threat, and it was (I think) calculated to elicited more of a police response then the actual threat warranted.   In other words, she lied to the police to get them to respond in a way they wouldn't have.  That would seem to fit with the charge.

I would think any one of us would respond differently to "Look, if youĺre going to do what you want, Iĺm going to do what I want, but youĺre not going to like it.ö and "I'm going to kill you."


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Pb on July 07, 2020, 07:05:26 AM
I would think any one of us would respond differently to "Look, if youĺre going to do what you want, Iĺm going to do what I want, but youĺre not going to like it.ö and "I'm going to kill you."

Nope, it is a threat.  It would have frightened me had I been the female idiot involved (I hate confrontation with strangers).  I would have gotten out of their asap, apparently the woman was too stupid to do that.

The female idiot may have thought the male idiot was going to poison her dog, for example.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: zxcvbob on July 07, 2020, 07:18:33 AM
Nope, it is a threat.  It would have frightened me had I been the female idiot involved (I hate confrontation with strangers).  I would have gotten out of their asap, apparently the woman was too stupid to do that.

The female idiot may have thought the male idiot was going to poison her dog, for example.

Even so, that's an implied threat to the dog, not her.  Maybe the judge can give her a little mercy.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: fistful on July 07, 2020, 08:00:00 AM
Surely, Mr. Smollet will come to her defense.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: just Warren on July 07, 2020, 06:28:47 PM
"ôLook, if youĺre going to do what you want, Iĺm going to do what I want, but youĺre not going to like it.ö

Yeah, sounds like thinly veiled threat to me- from one idiot to another.

LEOs and the courts shouldn't waste one minute of their time on these two bozos.

That was just a simple warning.

It's exactly the same when we pro-gun types say "You all can go ahead and try to enforce your gun bans but you're not going to like how it turns out."

Remember, she started the whole thing and then escalated it. She knew what she was doing by making it about his skin color, she was hoping he'd get a beat down or worse. Because black folk getting harmed by cops has been constantly in the news now for years. She was playing that angle. In effect she was trying to get this guy swatted. She's totally at fault here. And deserves whatever comes her way.

Bird watcher dude did nothing wrong.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: zahc on July 07, 2020, 06:47:00 PM
Plus she was legit breaking the rules by letting her dog run loose. I know it's escalated into a national incident at this point, but I still want her to be cited for breaking the rules.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Hawkmoon on July 07, 2020, 07:05:09 PM
Think of it as someone saying it to your wife or daughter alone. I don't care what color the person is.

How is that not a threat? Not the snacks you are not going to like it part?

Convince me.

I can't convince you, and I have no intention of trying. We simply disagree. That happens on occasion.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Jim147 on July 07, 2020, 09:23:24 PM
I'm not sure if I have made my point. She started this mess. Made it worse by not putting her dog back on the leash. Then he made a threat. She should have walked away the first time and still didn't the second time.

They were both in the wrong I just don't see the charge sticking unless I'm missing something.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Pb on July 08, 2020, 06:29:04 AM
I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one...

Except, can we all agree everyone involved is a moron?


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Ben on July 08, 2020, 02:34:59 PM
Interesting. The guy involved in this is refusing to cooperate with the DA. I say good for him. I agree with what he said. She's an idiot, but it seems she has paid for her idiocy. Going any further is just cancel culture affecting our legal system. If you want to sick the law on her any further, do what zahc said and cite her for whatever the fine is for having the dog off leash.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/birdwatcher-central-park-karen-refuses-to-cooperate



Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Mike Irwin on July 09, 2020, 03:33:16 AM
Nope, she's got to get the quick death penalty and even quicker needle because the mob has demanded it.

Anything less and whitey wins again.


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Hawkmoon on October 14, 2020, 10:38:49 AM
Update: Apparently Ms. Cooper (the Karen in this incident) made not one but two false calls to NYPD, trying to get them to respond more quickly.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/14/us/amy-cooper-central-park-racism/index.html


Title: Re: Karen has been fired
Post by: Mike Irwin on October 14, 2020, 10:41:56 AM
God, that was SOOOOO a couple of months ago... We have bigger issues to worry about now... ACB will do nefarious things if she's allowed to pack the orange court!


ankara escort ata┼čehir escort pendik escort ┼či┼čli escort kurtk├Ây escort ankara escort ankara escort avc─▒lar escort istanbul travesti escort bayan escort avc─▒lar escort antalya escort ankara escort istanbul escort t├╝rk porno ─░stanbul Escort ankara escort Ankara Escort Bayan taksim escort maltepe escort Ankara Escort Eros Porno Bah├že┼čehir Escort ankara escort Sincan Escort Bayan Etlik Escort Kurtk├Ây Escort Demetevler Escort ├ťmraniye Escort Escort ankara Keci├Âren Escort Escort Ankara Umraniye Escort Kad─▒k├Ây Escort Escort bayanlar Ankara Escort Bayan Kurtk├Ây Escort Eryaman Escort Kurtk├Ây Escort Escort ─░zmir Beylikd├╝z├╝ Escort ├çankaya Escort escort izmir Ankara escort Antalya escort Ankara Escort Altyaz─▒l─▒ Porno T├╝rk├že Altyaz─▒l─▒ Porno Beylikd├╝z├╝ Escort istanbul escort Bah├že┼čehir Escort Ankara escort Porno izle izmir escort Pendik escort Bostanc─▒ Escort Anadolu Yakas─▒ Escort mersin escort kocaeli escort izmir escort izmir escort Altyaz─▒l─▒ Porno izmit escort fmovies casino siteleri yabanc─▒ dizi ankara escort PORNO buca escort Antalya escort Mersin escort Pendik Escort Tuzla Escort Kartal Escort Kurtk├Ây Escort Beylikd├╝z├╝ Escort