Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: RocketMan on July 28, 2020, 10:42:23 AM
-
Remington has filed for bankruptcy for the second time since 2018. They were in talks with the Navajo Nation over an asset purchase, but those talks broke down leading to the Chapter 11 filing. It's a shame, but maybe it's just time for them to go.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/28/gun-maker-remington-files-for-bankruptcy-for-the-second-time.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/28/gun-maker-remington-files-for-bankruptcy-for-the-second-time.html)
-
(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/sharonherald.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/b/f8/bf8fd690-dc26-58bc-bd9b-0c62436c437a/5aa22d7456db5.image.jpg?resize=400%2C281)
-
If only they could have done this before ruining Marlin...
-
If only they could have done this before ruining Marlin...
Marlin among several other companies. How many different companies did they buy and then close down? Para Ordnance, DPMS, Bushmaster are three I can think of. I think they tried to make a Para Ordanance pistol with a Remington brand name, but I don't know how well that went.
I still cannot figure out how they could come out with pistols like the R51 and not get the production models functional.
-
(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/sharonherald.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/b/f8/bf8fd690-dc26-58bc-bd9b-0c62436c437a/5aa22d7456db5.image.jpg?resize=400%2C281)
It's even the right color.
-
No real loss.
Remington has been dying for years.
-
It's even the right color.
:laugh:
-
So far in the grave thanks to Remington
Bushmaster RIP (Wonder if Windilham will try to get the name back)
DPMS RIP
Para RIP
Rohrbaugh RIP
H&R RIP
On death watch
Marlin
Advanced Armament
Storm Lake
The Remington brand itself
-
On death watch
Advanced Armament
Storm Lake
Hadn't heard about those two. I like Storm Lake.
-
Hadn't heard about those two. I like Storm Lake.
I figure if they're part of Remington they're in that dumpster fire
-
I figure if they're part of Remington they're in that dumpster fire
Huh. Never knew Storm Lake was bought by Rem. Well, I hope they survive as an independent brand. They make good barrels.
-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Outdoor_Company
Remington
Barnes Bullets
Bushmaster
DPMS
Advanced Armament
Marlin Firearms
H & R Firearms
Para USA
The Parker Gun
Dakota Arms
Tapco
Storm Lake Barrels
-
I hate to say it for one of our own, but nothing of value was lost. "Remington" in it's current for is a lich feeding of the body and reputation of a once great company/companies. They stopped being a gun company that made quality rifles long ago.
-
On death watch
Marlin
Advanced Armament
Storm Lake
The Remington brand itself
I didn't know Storm lake was owned by Cerberus.
-
Not a done deal yet but
Firearms maker Remington Outdoor Co. has agreed to sell its ammunition business out of bankruptcy to South Carolina-based investment firm JJE Capital Holdings LLC for $65 million plus the assumption of liabilities, subject to better offers.
The JJE offer came in the form of a stalking-horse bid, setting a floor on the sale price for Remington’s ammunition business, which the company has been marketing while in chapter 11. Remington filed for bankruptcy protection in July and has been open to selling its ammunition and firearms operations to pay off its debt.
The proposed deal outlined in papers filed Tuesday in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Decatur, Ala., covers the design and manufacturing of ammunition sold under the Remington and Barnes Bullets brands and includes production facilities in Arkansas and Utah.
Remington Agrees to Sell Ammunition Business, Including Barnes Bullets, for $65 Million
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/remington-agrees-to-sell-ammunition-business-including-barnes-bullets-for-65-million/
-
What is a stalking horse bid?
-
Remington Agrees to Sell Ammunition Business, Including Barnes Bullets, for $65 Million
Or roughly three cases of ammo.
-
From Investopedia:
A stalking-horse bid is an initial bid on the assets of a bankrupt company. The bankrupt company will choose an entity from a pool of bidders who will make the first bid on the firm's remaining assets. The stalking horse sets the low-end bidding bar so that other bidders can not underbid the purchase price. The term "stalking horse" originates from a hunter trying to conceal himself behind either a real or fake horse.
-
Only 65 mil? On the surface that sounds like the screaming bargain of the century but I'm sure there's a bunch of debt assumption built into the sale, too.
Brad
-
Only 65 mil? On the surface that sounds like the screaming bargain of the century but I'm sure there's a bunch of debt assumption built into the sale, too.
Brad
Also if the dems win big in Nov the gun industry in this country will be basically dead after Jan and their stalking-horse bid would be for a dead horse. So it's a gamble.
-
JJE Capital Holdings LLC is Palmetto State Armory BTW.
-
JJE Capital Holdings LLC is Palmetto State Armory BTW.
Oh? Cool! At least it's an actual firearms-related company rather than some generic asset acquisition/liquidation conglomerate.
Brad
-
Holy *expletive deleted*it it would be awesome if PSA was able to get that.
-
Oh, on further reading, it's just an initial bid. Someone might bid higher etc. but still exciting to see PSA taking a leap at the brass ring like that.
-
PSA is a company that has actually increased their quality control while keeping costs low. I got an 11" 5.56 upper at the beginning of the year. I was impressed with the fit and finish.
My question will be if PSA would absorb it or simply run Remington better. Get rid of the guy they got from Taurus at least.
-
PSA is a company that has actually increased their quality control while keeping costs low. I got an 11" 5.56 upper at the beginning of the year. I was impressed with the fit and finish.
My question will be if PSA would absorb it or simply run Remington better. Get rid of the guy they got from Taurus at least.
"PSA" wouldn't be buying the company, the sale would be to a holding company they set up. So Remington Ammunition could continue to operate as Remington Ammunition. The deal includes debt assumption, but it doesn't say if there would be any deals with the debtors to reduce that debt so the company could have a chance at earning a profit. I doubt PSA would try to have the people running their firearms company on a day-to-day basis also run the ammo company, which will probably remain where it is currently located. They might share (some or all of) the same board of directors, though.
-
Yeah, I missed that it was the ammo business. Probably still room for improvement. I don't buy Remington ammo if I want accuracy. And I figure they are trying to avoid any part of the Sandy Hook liability.
I saw mention of PSA buying Remington ammo and thought it was accepted, but that still isn't settled.
-
My .06 is sighted for Remy R3006B because it's stupid accurate in it (under 0.8 inch cleaned, benched, and bagged). Guess I better buy any boxes of it I find on the chance that it won't be available any more.
Brad
-
Not final yet but it looks like PSA (JJE Capital Holdings, LLC) may have lost out on the ammo bid but will be getting DPMS,HR, AAC, & Storm Lake
Remington Asset Bids Revealed: Ruger Gets Marlin, Vista Gets Remington Ammo, Franklin Armory Gets Bushmaster, Sierra Gets Barnes
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/remington-asset-bids-revealed-ruger-gets-marlin-vista-gets-remington-ammo-franklin-armory-gets-bushmaster/
-
AS a Marlin and Ruger fan I am cautiously optimistic that this will be good for both brands.
-
AS a Marlin and Ruger fan I am cautiously optimistic that this will be good for both brands.
Same here. Hoping that Ruger will dispense with that #$%@& cross-bolt safety and improve the overall QC.
-
Me Three.
-
Pending tomorrow's finalization hearing, looks like Vista Outdoors pretty much is the ammo market now ... American Eagle, Blazer, Butler Creek, CCI, Estate, Federal, Independence, Speer, and now Remington. Add them together and that's way up there in total percentage what's available at most stores. Only serious competitors will be the importers like Wolf/TulAmmo and house brands sourced from overseas providers.
They'll also supply a big chunk of the reloading, budget optics, and cleaning supplies markets, too.
Brad
-
Fiochi is building an ammo plant in Arkansas.
-
Fiochi is building an ammo plant in Arkansas.
SIG Sauer has an ammo plant in Jacksonville Arkansas.
-
Pending tomorrow's finalization hearing, looks like Vista Outdoors pretty much is the ammo market now
I hope Vista Outdoors isn't a democrat-owned company.
Edited to add: Wow, they own a bunch of brands. https://vistaoutdoor.com/brands/
-
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/09/30/long-live-lever-gun-ruger/
The transaction is exclusively for the Marlin Firearms assets. Remington firearms, ammunition, other Remington Outdoor brands, and all facilities and real estate are excluded from the Ruger purchase. Once the purchase is completed, the Company will begin the process of relocating the Marlin Firearms assets to existing Ruger manufacturing facilities.
“The important thing for consumers, retailers and distributors to know at this point in time,” continued Killoy, “is that the Marlin brand and its great products will live on. Long Live the Lever Gun.”
-
But wait, there's more
A reliable source who wishes to remain anonymous has passed on information to TTAG regarding a pending federal investigation into Remington Outdoor Company’s handling of the sale of company assets to the Roundhill Group and Remington CEO Ken D’Arcy.
Multiple trusted sources close to the transaction report that D’Arcy was the man behind the Roundhill Group and used another individual as the group’s public face until the asset purchase was completed. Once Roundhill closed on the asset purchase, that person parted ways with Roundhill and D’Arcy’s involvement was made public.
The heart of the pending investigation has to do with Remington’s termination of 585 Ilion, New York employees last week, refusing to honor union contracts which I am told required Remington to pay severance, vacation pay, and other employee benefits to terminated workers including health care. The benefits will be cut off as of October 31.
BREAKING: Remington to Become the Subject of a Federal Investigation
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/breaking-remington-to-become-the-subject-of-a-federal-investigation/
-
But wait, there's more
BREAKING: Remington to Become the Subject of a Federal Investigation
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/breaking-remington-to-become-the-subject-of-a-federal-investigation/
I wouldn't think the bankruptcy court would take a positive view of that. I don't know what is legal or common in such things.
It also makes me think that nothing will change with Remington as far as their QAQC issues and such.
-
The heart of the pending investigation has to do with Remington’s termination of 585 Ilion, New York employees last week, refusing to honor union contracts which I am told required Remington to pay severance, vacation pay, and other employee benefits to terminated workers including health care. The benefits will be cut off as of October 31.
The union contract was with a "Remington" that no longer exists. The company wasn't sold in some deal where another entity is assuming both assets and liabilities. It's been liquidated, meaning assets only. It doesn't matter who was behind the acquisition ... if the union contract agreements weren't specified as part of the bankruptcy liquidation and asset transfer requirements, they are no longer legally enforceable. Unions had a chance to step in and make their voice known as part of the bankruptcy proceedings so any screaming now is little more than lip service.
The fact that Brindisi has a (D) after his name makes me automatically presume he's likely in some kind of lock-step with the unions and will use any tactic, underhanded or otherwise, to serve their interests. My guess would be this is a Hail Mary on his part to try and force Fed.Gov intervention. Not a lot of sympathy for the union as their demands and absolutist enforcement tactics are likely a significant contributor to Remington's demise.
Brad
-
The union contract was with a "Remington" that no longer exists. The company wasn't sold in some deal where another entity is assuming both assets and liabilities. It's been liquidated, meaning assets only. It doesn't matter who was behind the acquisition ... if the union contract agreements weren't specified as part of the bankruptcy liquidation and asset transfer requirements, they are no longer legally enforceable. Unions had a chance to step in and make their voice known as part of the bankruptcy proceedings so any screaming now is little more than lip service.
The fact that Brindisi has a (D) after his name makes me automatically presume he's likely in some kind of lock-step with the unions and will use any tactic, underhanded or otherwise, to serve their interests. My guess would be this is a Hail Mary on his part to try and force Fed.Gov intervention. Not a lot of sympathy for the union as their demands and absolutist enforcement tactics are likely a significant contributor to Remington's demise.
Brad
Do you think the fact that the CEO set up his own group to buy the company in bankruptcy makes a difference?
-
Do you think the fact that the CEO set up his own group to buy the company in bankruptcy makes a difference?
Unless it can be proven he unduly influenced bankruptcy court proceedings, no. It's not unusual for former executives to form outside corporate entities in order to acquire some of all of their previous company's assets or interests during a bankruptcy. If they did it within boundaries of ethics and law, it doesn't matter who the person is or whether or not they kept their identity concealed.
Brad
-
Not looking good so far. Hopefully they can get this fixed
REMARMS *new production*: FIRST LOOK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zg07o4BprE&t=36s
RemArms *RESPONDS*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fdD_m5_pnw
-
Remarms response was kind of sad. "Yeah, we bought a failing company known for having QC issues while on their death bed and then just shipped their last bit of production out the door to our customer base kind of just hoping for the best".
Wanting to get their quality standards back to where they were 20 years ago is also pretty sad. Take their quality back to what it was 40-50 years ago and I will start looking at Remington again.
-
Remarms response was kind of sad. "Yeah, we bought a failing company known for having QC issues while on their death bed and then just shipped their last bit of production out the door to our customer base kind of just hoping for the best".
Wanting to get their quality standards back to where they were 20 years ago is also pretty sad. Take their quality back to what it was 40-50 years ago and I will start looking at Remington again.
The problem with that is the ownership group that bought Remington are the same people who ran it into bankruptcy this last time. They were in charge when the old inventory was made.
20 years ago is 2001. Was Remington quality that good then? I would say they need to get back to 1970. I have a late 60's model 1100 shotgun that is pretty nice. I used to have an 870 Express pump shotgun bought from Oshman's in the 90's that was a good shotgun.
-
"... and I told them that the best way for them to show how awesome their product is would be for them to give me a couple of free, hand-picked shotguns so I can claim their QC has improved even if they only did QC on the samples they send me."
Nice.
-
Speaking of Remington
This is an offer. Some are saying total claims total up into the 1 billion dollar range.
Remington offers $33 million to families of Sandy Hook school shooting victims
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/remington-offers-33-million-families-sandy-hook-school-shooting-victims-2021-07-27/
Remington Offers $33 Million Settlement to Families of Sandy Hook Shooting Victims
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/remington-offers-33-million-settlement-to-families-of-sandy-hook-shooting-victims/
-
$73 million
The families of nine victims of the Sandy Hook Elementary School have agreed to a $73 million settlement of a lawsuit against the maker of the rifle used to kill 20 first graders and six educators in 2012.
Remington, which made the Bushmaster AR-15-style rifle used in the massacre, also agreed to allow the families to release numerous documents they obtained during the lawsuit including ones showing how it marketed the weapon, the families said Tuesday.
The families and a survivor of the shooting sued Remington in 2015, saying the company should have never sold such a dangerous weapon to the public. They said their focus was on preventing future mass shootings.
Sandy Hook families settle for $73M with gun maker Remington
https://www.wdrb.com/news/national/sandy-hook-families-settle-for-73m-with-gun-maker-remington/article_cbca7e2a-9e21-5115-a722-78373e050013.html
-
If the loser had walked in with a couple of jerry cans of gasoline, would they have sued the gas station?
-
Embolden by this they're probably start suing everyone else.
-
This is outrageous. I almost kinda want to now see auto manufacturers sued for accidents and drunk drivers, just because it would take a ginormous industry like that to fight back with an army of lawyers.
This is absolutely a dangerous precedent in a free society.
-
Lawsuits like this are a violation of the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act.
Shame on the judges for not throwing it out.
-
Lawsuits like this are a violation of the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act.
Shame on the judges for not throwing it out.
I seem to think that a lot in the last 10 years.
-
Remington closing almost 200 year old NY factory
A gun factory in upstate New York with a history stretching back to the 19th century is scheduled to close in March, according to a letter from the company to union officials.
RemArms, the current version of Remington Arms, will close its facility in the Mohawk Valley village of Ilion around March 4, according to the letter sent Thursday. The letter said the company "did not arrive at this decision lightly,” according to the Observer-Dispatch of Utica.
The plant currently employs about 270 workers, according to union officials.
Remington, the country’s oldest gun maker, began making flintlock rifles in the region in 1816. The factory site in the village dates to 1828, with many of the current buildings constructed early in the 20th century.
Remington gun factory in operation for nearly 200 years is set to close
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/gun-factory-upstate-new-york-roots-19th-century-105330722
End of an Era: Remington's New York Plant Shutting Down
https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2023/12/04/remingtons-new-york-n77990
-
Sad, but I'm guessing New York State's political and regulatory environment played a key role.
We have friends who have family in New York City. They've visited several times so they're somewhat familiar. They went a couple months ago and said the business environment was bad, an unexpected number of closed storefronts and boarded up shops.
Brad