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Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: AZRedhawk44 on September 09, 2020, 11:40:42 AM



Title: Dune
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on September 09, 2020, 11:40:42 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9xhJrPXop4&feature=youtu.be

I'm optimistic about this one.

I just watched Villeneuve's Blade Runner 2049 this last weekend, and he did a marvelous job preserving the ambiance of the original film, giving us new facets of a Replicant world to consider.

Lynch's 1984 Dune is a favorite of mine despite its flaws. I hated the SyFy channel Dune miniseries done in 2000. If Villeneuve can pay respect to the power of the mind in Herbert's original work, and keep Paul and his Atreides/Fremen cohorts on track as the stoics they are (Paul in particular...the religious/philosophical roots of the book demand it), this will be a monumental accomplishment. Dune has been described many times by many great filmmakers as "unfilmable." Villeneuve may have schooled them all.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: Kingcreek on September 09, 2020, 11:50:36 AM
As a big fan of the original book, I never expect much from a movie. They can only present a summary of a literary work like that in a movie length production. Same for Lord of the Rings, etc.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: Ben on September 09, 2020, 12:31:31 PM
AZ and me must be one of the few people on the planet that didn't have a big problem with the original movie. It wasn't the greatest, but I didn't think it was that bad either. I still rewatch it every couple of years or so.

Trailer for the new one looks pretty good. A few thoughts:

IMDB has the Paul character as third billed. Maybe they're doing "order of appearance" or something.

The new Paul, according to IMDB, is 25, but he looks like he's 15. Not sure what I think of that casting.

Several interesting choices of actors for other characters.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: dogmush on September 09, 2020, 12:37:40 PM
I also liked the original movie.  It's not perfect, but it's OK, and I watch it happily when I find it.

I really like the book Dune, but as long as they tell a decent story with good characterization and dialogue that is internally consistent, it's OK if they change a few things.  That's why it's called an "adaptation".  It's also where so many remakes go wrong these days.  Tell a good story, and people will like it.  Be lazy and pray nostalgia carries your movie?  That's rolling the dice.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: Mike Irwin on September 09, 2020, 12:55:45 PM
I saw Dune in the theater when it first came out. I only had the vaguest idea what it was about. My friends wanted to go, as they were far more into sci fi than I was at the time, so sure, whatever.

I knew we were in for trouble when they passed out a glossary sheet as we entered the theater. WTF?

Despite its flaws, I have to admit... I liked it. I really did. It's pure 80s big hair filmmaking, but I still watch it occasionally, and I still enjoy it.

I only finally read the book maybe 5 years ago. Almost 600 page, IIRC, in the paperback I had... I finished it in less than 3 days. Unbridled awesomeness is the only way I can put it.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: Ben on September 09, 2020, 12:59:05 PM
I think the last time I read Dune was in 1980 or so. I need to read it again before I see the new movie. Though like others, I'm not expecting "true to the novel", nor will I be upset by the lack thereof.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: WLJ on September 09, 2020, 01:18:26 PM

The new Paul, according to IMDB, is 25, but he looks like he's 15. Not sure what I think of that casting.

Been a long long time since I read the book but IIRC Paul was around 15-16 or so in the first half of the book


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: Ben on September 09, 2020, 01:40:54 PM
Been a long long time since I read the book but IIRC Paul was around 15-16 or so in the first half of the book

Casting a 15 year old looking actor can make sense if they're looking at more than one movie.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: WLJ on September 09, 2020, 01:43:15 PM
Casting a 15 year old looking actor can make sense if they're looking at more than one movie.

That's along the lines of what I'm thinking. They wanted someone who could look young in the first half but then appropriately older in the second.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: lee n. field on September 09, 2020, 01:47:41 PM
Been a long long time since I read the book but IIRC Paul was around 15-16 or so in the first half of the book

And Jessica wouldn't have been too much older than thirty. 


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on September 09, 2020, 03:13:15 PM
That's along the lines of what I'm thinking. They wanted someone who could look young in the first half but then appropriately older in the second.

Villeneuve's Dune is addressing the first book of Herbert's series, but it is doing so as two movies.  This movie is only part 1 of the book, up to where Paul flees into the desert and joins with the Fremen.  It'll probably include his romance with Chani, and his rise in Fremen leadership.  Unsure if it will end before or after he transmutes the sandworm bile.

There's a few years between parts 1 and 2 of this first book.  Enough time for Paul's sister to grow to somewhere around 6 to 9 years old, but I think she had accelerated development.

And of course having Chalamet available for a possible 2nd and 3rd book in the series to play Paul again, as an older man, is helpful.  Though I doubt Chalamet could play Paul from the 3rd book.  But... it might be neat to have Kyle MacLachlan play that particular Paul.  Especially 5-10 years from now.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: MechAg94 on September 09, 2020, 03:50:47 PM
The trailer looks good.  Looks like it will get into all the politics.  The shields look cool.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: fifth_column on September 10, 2020, 07:00:15 AM
I loved the Dune series, absolutely devoured them when I was a kid.  The movie came out when I was 16 or 17.  I recall walking out of the theater after maybe 20 minutes.  I've tried watching it as an adult, thinking I was too immature at the time, but I don't think I watched all of it even then.  I don't think David Lynch had a good grasp of the material, or he got entirely something else out of the book than I did.

This one looks promising, though.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: WLJ on September 10, 2020, 07:11:48 AM
I loved the Dune series, absolutely devoured them when I was a kid.  The movie came out when I was 16 or 17.  I recall walking out of the theater after maybe 20 minutes.  I've tried watching it as an adult, thinking I was too immature at the time, but I don't think I watched all of it even then.  I don't think David Lynch had a good grasp of the material, or he got entirely something else out of the book than I did.

This one looks promising, though.

While it had it's good points he was trying to cram too much book into one movie plus I got the impression they were aiming, and failed, for a summer big money blockbuster popcorn movie, ie Star Wars. Dune requires the hard sci-fi treatment, far more time to be told properly, and requires a studio willing to sink a ton of money into it knowing they may not see much of it back, ie Blade Runner 2049.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: JN01 on September 10, 2020, 12:12:57 PM
I saw Dune in the theater when it first came out. I only had the vaguest idea what it was about. My friends wanted to go, as they were far more into sci fi than I was at the time, so sure, whatever.

I knew we were in for trouble when they passed out a glossary sheet as we entered the theater. WTF?

Despite its flaws, I have to admit... I liked it. I really did. It's pure 80s big hair filmmaking, but I still watch it occasionally, and I still enjoy it.

I only finally read the book maybe 5 years ago. Almost 600 page, IIRC, in the paperback I had... I finished it in less than 3 days. Unbridled awesomeness is the only way I can put it.

I tried reading the book as a teenager, but didn't make it very far with all the flipping back and forth to the glossary.  Guess my attention span wasn't up to it.  Later, I thought I'd go see the movie, wasn't any better. It's one of the few movies where I walked out in the middle of it.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on September 10, 2020, 12:41:50 PM
I actually liked the Mini series. It followed the books more closely that the movie. I also hated the books. Hubert's writing is as dry as the planet he writes about. It took me a few attempts to get through it.
I really like the casting for The Beast and I'm interested in seeing Stellen Starsgard as the Baron. However, I have fairly low expectations. It could be awesome, but considering the material and modern Hollywood, it's very possibly going to be crap.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: fistful on September 10, 2020, 12:56:15 PM
I get the appeal of Dune, but I find it difficult to buy into those 87-volume franchises. If I need a corpus of literature that extensive, I'll go with the Bible* or the Icelandic sagas, or Journey to the West or something.



*the real one, not the Orange Catholic one.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: WLJ on September 10, 2020, 03:17:16 PM
Apparently the SJWs think feel it's too white and cultural appropriation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8RvVQcXGj4


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: dogmush on September 10, 2020, 03:26:51 PM
Apparently the SJWs think feel it's too white and cultural appropriation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8RvVQcXGj4

That's a good sign.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: Pb on September 10, 2020, 04:10:45 PM
The trailer looks excellent!

One of my favorite books.

I remember checking out the original Dune movie on VHS.

I'm not sure if I was more horrified or gobsmacked.

When I saw Patrick Stewart charging into battle holding a lapdog, I thought I was hallucinating.  ???


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: Angel Eyes on September 10, 2020, 07:47:59 PM
The trailer looks excellent!

Indeed.  Plus Pink Floyd on the soundtrack. 

Been a fan of the novels for years.  Looking forward to seeing this film.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: Mike Irwin on September 11, 2020, 03:12:14 AM
Finally got to watch the trailer...

Holy balls that looks good.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: MillCreek on September 11, 2020, 05:01:20 AM
Wow. This may call for going to the theater and seeing it on the big screen and sound.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: Mike Irwin on September 11, 2020, 06:32:59 AM
Exactly what I'm thinking.

The last movie I saw in the theater that DEMANDED to be seen in the theater was Blade Runner 2049.

I also saw Deadpool 2 (very good) and Solo: A Star Wars Story (pretty crappy) in the theater because I was visiting friends and they wanted to see them. But neither one demanded to be seen in the theater.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: WLJ on September 12, 2020, 05:50:32 AM
For hard Sci-Fi fans Foundation is coming up too.
Hopefully they won't screw this one up and give it the woke treatment. Unfortunately from what little we see in the trailer they may have.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZd3xUDudy8

For those unfamiliar with Foundation. Many consider it the daddy, or grand daddy depending on how you look at it, of modern hard Sci-fi including Dune
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_(Asimov_novel)


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: Ron on September 12, 2020, 06:00:06 AM
I read the first few Dune novels a couple decades ago.

I've never read Foundation.

If you've read both what would you recommend?

Should I reread Dune or read Foundation?

I have Dune on my Kindle already just waiting for me to jump into it. I have Foundation in my saved for later at Amazon.

Foundation has been recommended to me twice this year, from a cousin and a friend.

Maybe I'll try and knock em both out this winter.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: Pb on September 12, 2020, 06:00:41 AM
One of the things I really like about the Dune trailer is the dialogue between the Reverend Mother and Paul- it introduces the plot very well.  One of the big challenges of the movie is to avoid confusing people, and i think that did it very well.

And the weapons, armor, and sword fighting looked really cool too... =D

The use of heavy wearable body armor (along with the shields) makes sense in the Dune universe if blades are the most common weapon.

This was only briefly mentioned in the book (chain mail on Fayd Rautha).

Notice when Idaho is fighting the Sadukar?  There was a light effect when he stabbed one.  It looks like there may be some special tech with the blade that lets it penetrate physical armor... which is an neat concept!


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: Pb on September 12, 2020, 06:02:36 AM
I was not fond of Foundation.  Obviously, opinions vary.

I do love Dune.

Keep in mind that "moral" behind Dune is not especially apparent in the first book (though hinted at).

I wonder how they will handle it in the book.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: JN01 on September 12, 2020, 11:49:39 AM
For hard Sci-Fi fans Foundation is coming up too.
Hopefully they won't screw this one up and give it the woke treatment. Unfortunately from what little we see in the trailer they may have.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZd3xUDudy8

For those unfamiliar with Foundation. Many consider it the daddy, or grand daddy depending on how you look at it, of modern hard Sci-fi including Dune
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_(Asimov_novel)

Now that I would be interested in.  Not going to subscribe to Apple TV just to see it, however.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: fistful on September 12, 2020, 03:32:06 PM
From what I remember about Foundation, it was sort of a Great Man Theory of History the Future, and then The Mule comes along and takes that concept to 11, and not in a good way. Not sure I'd be interested in a film version. Dune I wouldn't read, but might want to watch a (good) film version.

The worm in that trailer is sick!


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: fifth_column on September 14, 2020, 06:11:12 AM

. . . .

Notice when Idaho is fighting the Sadukar?  There was a light effect when he stabbed one.  It looks like there may be some special tech with the blade that lets it penetrate physical armor... which is a neat concept!

No blade tech required, shields can be penetrated by something moving slow enough. 


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: makattak on September 14, 2020, 06:24:27 AM
For hard Sci-Fi fans Foundation is coming up too.
Hopefully they won't screw this one up and give it the woke treatment. Unfortunately from what little we see in the trailer they may have.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZd3xUDudy8

For those unfamiliar with Foundation. Many consider it the daddy, or grand daddy depending on how you look at it, of modern hard Sci-fi including Dune
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_(Asimov_novel)

From the looks of it, they're actually doing "Prelude to Foundation" which is the novel I've actually read vs. Foundation which I don't know if I'll ever get around to. 
(Minor spoilers ahead)

Quick synopsis: "Prelude to foundation" is a guy (Hari Seldon, apparently the main character in this series) learning that he can predict events perfectly with enough data on history.* He's aided by a super intelligent AI with some telepathic abilities. I'm guessing the diverse lady isn't the AI.

Foundation is thousands of years in the future where Hari is long dead, but has left a series of instructions only to be opened at specific times in history, to guide humanity through the upcoming crisis. At every point in the last 1000 or so years, the instructions have perfectly described the events happening and what humanity should choose to do. Until "now". This time the galaxy looks absolutely nothing like what he predicted and the leaders panic. It is discovered that his analysis failed because of a biological anomaly that he could not account for. ("The Mule")

I have doubts this will be good, as my recollections don't really match up with the ACTION!!! and INTRIGUE!!! that the trailer suggests will drive the plot.




*(Deterministic view of the world, btw, and wrong because of less than perfect knowledge, but I digress.)



Title: Re: Dune
Post by: Pb on September 14, 2020, 06:37:45 AM
No blade tech required, shields can be penetrated by something moving slow enough. 

Not the metal body armor they are wearing in the trailer though.

(https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/duneisaac-900x1273.jpg)


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: MechAg94 on September 14, 2020, 07:04:49 AM
From the looks of it, they're actually doing "Prelude to Foundation" which is the novel I've actually read vs. Foundation which I don't know if I'll ever get around to. 
(Minor spoilers ahead)

Quick synopsis: "Prelude to foundation" is a guy (Hari Seldon, apparently the main character in this series) learning that he can predict events perfectly with enough data on history.* He's aided by a super intelligent AI with some telepathic abilities. I'm guessing the diverse lady isn't the AI.

Foundation is thousands of years in the future where Hari is long dead, but has left a series of instructions only to be opened at specific times in history, to guide humanity through the upcoming crisis. At every point in the last 1000 or so years, the instructions have perfectly described the events happening and what humanity should choose to do. Until "now". This time the galaxy looks absolutely nothing like what he predicted and the leaders panic. It is discovered that his analysis failed because of a biological anomaly that he could not account for. ("The Mule")

I have doubts this will be good, as my recollections don't really match up with the ACTION!!! and INTRIGUE!!! that the trailer suggests will drive the plot.




*(Deterministic view of the world, btw, and wrong because of less than perfect knowledge, but I digress.)


I don't remember Prelude to Foundation including an AI.  And if I remember right, Hari's plan was to recover from the collapse of the Galactic empire in 1000 years instead of the predicted 10,000. 



Title: Re: Dune
Post by: MechAg94 on September 14, 2020, 07:26:40 AM
I thought the shield technology made projectile weapons ineffective so fighting went back down to hand weapons.  I guess since sword swings would be stopped by the shield, shorter knives became preferred weapons.  It might be interesting to see one of the youtube medieval weapons guys take a deep dive on that subject.  I am curious if the experts would recommend other potential choices.  Also, if you can't bring a blade in hard, wouldn't chain mail work pretty good? 

The 80's movie showed some sort of projectile gun that fired a round that slowly penetrated the shield.  I only remember it being used once.  If it existed, why not use it all the time. 

The book seemed to indicate there was a lot of suppression of technology if it would threaten the Emperor's power.  There were also some extreme rules against using computers or AI.  I don't remember where they drew the line. 


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: AJ Dual on September 14, 2020, 07:36:18 AM
I don't remember Prelude to Foundation including an AI.  And if I remember right, Hari's plan was to recover from the collapse of the Galactic empire in 1000 years instead of the predicted 10,000. 



The AI was Dors Venibili Hari Seldon's Girlfriend then wife. She was a humanform robot. Nobody but Hari Seldon knew this, or even he just suspected, but didn't know for sure or care. She was working for Daneel Olivaw the first humanform robot who'd been around for 10,000 years since the old-Earth and the original 50 Spacer colonies. (Caves of Steel, Robots of Dawn, The Naked Sun)

Daneel was working under the guidance of the "Zeroth Law", the implied meta-robotic law that supersedes the first law. Namely that a robot must work to prevent harm to all of humanity collectively. Which is why he helped foster the growth of the Galactic Empire, and then encouraged Hari Seldon's Psychohistory to shorten it's collapse. Always looking for ways to keep the galaxy as peaceful and unified as possible.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: makattak on September 14, 2020, 07:44:17 AM
I don't remember Prelude to Foundation including an AI.  And if I remember right, Hari's plan was to recover from the collapse of the Galactic empire in 1000 years instead of the predicted 10,000.  

From Wiki:

Quote
The finale reveals that "Hummin" is actually Eto Demerzel. Seldon then gets Demerzel to admit he is a robot; Demerzel is in fact R. Daneel Olivaw, who can influence humans mentally. He wants the development of psychohistory to help him better protect humanity, as per "The Zeroth Law Of Robotics". Seldon also suspects Venabili of being a robot, as well.

Ah, I see AJ recalled more of the specifics than I did. As I recall, Daneel was also in works from thousands of years before, e.g. Robots of Dawn.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: MechAg94 on September 14, 2020, 07:46:56 AM
It has been years since I read the Foundation books.  Those were details I forgot.  Thanks. 


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: Angel Eyes on September 14, 2020, 08:05:37 AM
Re Dune: if memory serves, the personal shields were of limited utility on Arrakis because the energy field attracted sandworms.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: AJ Dual on September 14, 2020, 09:28:51 AM
Re Dune: if memory serves, the personal shields were of limited utility on Arrakis because the energy field attracted sandworms.


Yes, Herbert used the shields to keep ray-gun play at a minimum to get the neo-feudal feel he wanted in his book, and then he did away with shields by making their vibrations drive the worms crazy.

Personally, I think with all the high technology the Dune universe possessed even after the Butlarian anti-AI jihad the answer would be to just use ever larger guns that would knock a shield user ass-over-teakettle so hard that they'd die anyway even if the shield prevented penetration of the round.

So I imagine everyone running around with semi-automatic over-the-shoulder recoiless rifles.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: fistful on September 14, 2020, 09:30:44 AM


So I imagine everyone running around with semi-automatic over-the-shoulder recoiless rifles.

You mean all the time, or just when you think about Dune?


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on September 14, 2020, 09:41:02 AM
Yes, Herbert used the shields to keep ray-gun play at a minimum to get the neo-feudal feel he wanted in his book, and then he did away with shields by making their vibrations drive the worms crazy.

Personally, I think with all the high technology the Dune universe possessed even after the Butlarian anti-AI jihad the answer would be to just use ever larger guns that would knock a shield user ass-over-teakettle so hard that they'd die anyway even if the shield prevented penetration of the round.

So I imagine everyone running around with semi-automatic over-the-shoulder recoiless rifles.

Evidently if laser weapons were used against shields, it would set of an explosion on par with nuclear yield weapons.  IIRC, the Baron exploited this when attacking the Atreides on Arrakis to bring down their shields around the palace.  And the Baron did deploy artillery, too, which was an "ancient" concept to their perspective.  Seems military tech ran cyclical; as defenses cycled, offensive strategies would also change, requiring alternative defenses... but that things tended to return to once-outdated concepts.

And I believe that shields redirect kinetic energy of the offending mass away from the shield.  So a massive projectile wouldn't help. 


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: MechAg94 on September 14, 2020, 09:45:33 AM
There was one point in the 80's movie that showed a gun being used.  Fired some sort of bullet or missile that went through the shield slow.  Never saw it used again in the movie.  You would think there would be clouds of those on the battlefield if they were useful.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: fifth_column on September 14, 2020, 10:50:47 AM
This thread is making me want to read Dune again for the umpteenth time . . .

I didn't notice the armor in the trailer.  I don't recall kinetic armor in the books. 


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: MechAg94 on September 14, 2020, 11:34:27 AM
This thread is making me want to read Dune again for the umpteenth time . . .

I didn't notice the armor in the trailer.  I don't recall kinetic armor in the books. 
That isn't a bad idea.  I don't remember all the details either. 


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: Ben on September 14, 2020, 12:08:47 PM
This thread is making me want to read Dune again for the umpteenth time . . .

I didn't notice the armor in the trailer.  I don't recall kinetic armor in the books. 

Yeah, but now these guys are throwing Foundation in there too. It has been longer since I read the Foundation series than the Dune series. Hitting both is some serious reading time!  :laugh:

On Foundation the movie, frankly, while I liked the book, from what I remember, if a movie at all follows the book, the movie will be boring as hell. Foundation just seems to be a more gripping tale in the written word.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: Mike Irwin on September 14, 2020, 12:25:04 PM
Hate to admit this...

But I'm not sure that I've ever even heard of the Foundation series...


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: MechAg94 on September 14, 2020, 12:53:53 PM
Yeah, but now these guys are throwing Foundation in there too. It has been longer since I read the Foundation series than the Dune series. Hitting both is some serious reading time!  :laugh:

On Foundation the movie, frankly, while I liked the book, from what I remember, if a movie at all follows the book, the movie will be boring as hell. Foundation just seems to be a more gripping tale in the written word.
I remember realized it was a bit different as it always involved the hero thinking their way out of the problem rather than fighting. 


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: AJ Dual on September 15, 2020, 06:50:07 AM
There was one point in the 80's movie that showed a gun being used.  Fired some sort of bullet or missile that went through the shield slow.  Never saw it used again in the movie.  You would think there would be clouds of those on the battlefield if they were useful.

Yeah, the book makes mention of "Slow pellet stunners" that could go through a shield, however it's not clear how a pellet or dart moving slow enough to penetrate a shield wouldn't have excessive drop or be nearly useless as a "gun". And that limitation aside, the dart or pellet would have to be very heavy to make up for it's low velocity.

And considering a shield would fend off even a knife blow at fast human speed, that's really slow, like slower than throwing speed. Considering it's possible to see and dodge Airsoft BB's and paintballs in flight at round 290-300fps without Dune super-skill, it just doesn't seem like a really feasible thing.

Although in the Lynch film, I kind of pictured the projectile that killed Duncan Idaho as some kind of hunter seeker. (more handavium give or take on how suspensors interact with shields) Where the dart was very heavy, and the suspensors kept it flying level, at a velocity that could penetrate the shield and keep on pushing slowly.

If I were to armor up troops for the Dune universe, I'd fit the guns with bullets that were small disposable laser pointers. Since a laser touching a shield causes them both to explode. Just have the laser bullet distance armed and boom. Although the lasgun/shield explosion handwavium isn't clear if it's the power supply or just the act of being touched with the laser that explodes.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: Mike Irwin on September 15, 2020, 06:55:27 AM
"Yeah, the book makes mention of "Slow pellet stunners" that could go through a shield, however it's not clear how a pellet or dart moving slow enough to penetrate a shield wouldn't have excessive drop or be nearly useless as a "gun". And that limitation aside, the dart or pellet would have to be very heavy to make up for it's low velocity. "

My guess? They work sort of the same way as the hunter-seeker that's used to try to assassinate Paul.

"The device floated through the air, using a tiny Holtzman Field Generatorto maneuver. The tip held a camera that transmitted a video signal back to the operator. Vision was distorted by the compressed suspensor field. Once detected, the target was almost guaranteed to be killed. The killing device itself was a tiny needle, tipped with a quick-acting, lethal poison. The needle was retracted until a target is acquired, at which point it appeared, shortly before the device shot into the victim."


So, a dumb version of a hunter seeker with no drop and no need to be controlled by someone.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: Pb on September 15, 2020, 08:00:04 AM
The Dune novel mentioned physical armor very briefly.  Feyd Rautha was mentioned as wearing a partial coat of mail on two occasions.

Given that knives and swords are used extensively in the novel, physical armor would be a obvious supplement to energy shields. 

I am glad it looks like the movie is using this idea.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: WLJ on September 15, 2020, 08:51:25 AM
He dropped the Baron's red hair which in the book helped connect Jessica to the Baron but I will admit this change among others does work better in a visible medium for the Harkonnens in general.

DUNE 2020 - Denis Villeneuve Explains New Harkonnen Appearance and Homeworld Changes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU4JEFg4VuA



Title: Re: Dune
Post by: WLJ on September 15, 2020, 09:02:03 AM
In the YT comments
Quote
Sanbro
1 day ago
Say what you want about the David Lynch movie, it's cast was outstanding. Real theatrical greats.
9

Vedla's House of Old TV Commercials
35 minutes ago
Indeed.  For me, the most memorable line was Jose Ferrer as Shaddam IV saying, "Bring in that floating fat man, the Baron!"

His voice did wonders with that line.  :rofl:


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: MechAg94 on September 15, 2020, 11:28:28 AM
"Yeah, the book makes mention of "Slow pellet stunners" that could go through a shield, however it's not clear how a pellet or dart moving slow enough to penetrate a shield wouldn't have excessive drop or be nearly useless as a "gun". And that limitation aside, the dart or pellet would have to be very heavy to make up for it's low velocity. "

My guess? They work sort of the same way as the hunter-seeker that's used to try to assassinate Paul.

"The device floated through the air, using a tiny Holtzman Field Generatorto maneuver. The tip held a camera that transmitted a video signal back to the operator. Vision was distorted by the compressed suspensor field. Once detected, the target was almost guaranteed to be killed. The killing device itself was a tiny needle, tipped with a quick-acting, lethal poison. The needle was retracted until a target is acquired, at which point it appeared, shortly before the device shot into the victim."


So, a dumb version of a hunter seeker with no drop and no need to be controlled by someone.
I imagine such a weapon would be easy to evade or defeat one on one, but in a battle melee, there might be hundreds sent toward your group and you wouldn't see them all.  I guess there would be armor to defeat that in a battle.  It depends heavily on the technology used.  Could the tip of the penetrator have an explosive to punch through once it passed the shield? 

If it was just blades, I would think advanced technology would allow a fine chain mail or tough fabric that prevented penetration of a blade.  A poison needle might be different.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: dogmush on September 15, 2020, 11:58:41 AM
I believe it's the kind of advanced tech that can be designed after a couple doses of spice.  Before the folding space thing, but after the mentat mantra.

Also, in the Lynch move during the fall of house Atradies, both sides were mostly using projectile (or at particle beam) weapons, which leads me to believe the personal shields were expensive, and tended to be used on higher ranks and royalty, and the slow rounds to defeat them were likely also scarce.

The anti shield round seems to travel quickly (at least at normal "projectile speeds) until it encounters the shield, then it slows down and drills/powers through.  I always assumed that it was self powered (like the hunter/killer) and when it got to the person inside the shield it just continued it's slow advance under power, not needing mass or velocity to penetrate.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: Pb on September 15, 2020, 12:43:34 PM

Also, in the Lynch move during the fall of house Atradies, both sides were mostly using projectile (or at particle beam) weapons, which leads me to believe the personal shields were expensive, and tended to be used on higher ranks and royalty, and the slow rounds to defeat them were likely also scarce.


That was in complete contradiction to the novel.

Projectile weapons were rarely used (with the exception of artillery the Baron used to collapse caves).

Energy weapons existed, but were not used often, as the intersection of a lasgun beam and a shield created subatomic fusion with a wildly unpredictable effect.

The fremen used projectile weapons more than most others, due to the uselessness of body shields in the desert.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: Angel Eyes on September 15, 2020, 02:33:18 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NE_-0IdWioU


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: fistful on September 17, 2020, 03:49:15 AM
(https://cdn.ricochet.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/dude.jpg)


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: makattak on September 17, 2020, 05:15:58 AM
(https://cdn.ricochet.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/dude.jpg)

 :rofl:


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: WLJ on October 07, 2020, 05:36:48 AM
Look like you'll have to wait another year.

Quote
Warner Bros. and Legendary Pictures have delayed the release of ôDune,ö the big-budget sci-fi epic from director Denis Villeneuve. It will no longer premiere on Dec. 18 and is now slated to debut in theaters on Oct. 1, 2021.

A spokesperson for Warner Bros. declined to comment.
https://variety.com/2020/film/box-office/dune-release-date-delayed-2021-1234767105/


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: Ben on October 07, 2020, 05:40:41 AM
Look like you'll have to wait another year.
https://variety.com/2020/film/box-office/dune-release-date-delayed-2021-1234767105/

Bunch of horses asses.


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: Mike Irwin on October 07, 2020, 05:49:08 AM
"Bunch of horses asses."

No, not really. This year has completely screwed everything, including the movie industry. Hell, Greyhound was pulled from theaters and then released to streaming. What REALLY sucked about that is that it was released on Apple streaming, which means that a ton of people who were really looking forward to seeing it... won't. I know I won't unless it's released from Apple, and I'm pretty sure that once something hits Apple it doesn't surface anywhere else.

But, once again, 2020 *expletive deleted*ing SUCKS!


Title: Re: Dune
Post by: Ben on October 07, 2020, 06:47:27 AM
"Bunch of horses asses."

No, not really. This year has completely screwed everything, including the movie industry. Hell, Greyhound

Dammit. I had that on my list to watch on Netflix (or Netflix DVD) then somehow forgot about it. Now I see why it fell off my radar. I just saw that pushing the new Bond movie to next year has caused a bunch of theaters to shut down.


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