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Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: AmbulanceDriver on September 09, 2020, 12:45:01 PM



Title: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: AmbulanceDriver on September 09, 2020, 12:45:01 PM
Quite literally.  Dozens of fires in the last several days, several that are threatening suburban/rural communities (and even urban communities like Medford).  Combination of extremely dry conditions, very strong east winds, and quite honestly poor forest management.  Half of my county is on a level 3 (GO NOW) evacuation order.  The other half is on a level 1 (get ready) evac order (we're solidly in the level 1 area, so reasonably safe).  My in-laws have evac'd from their home, MIL is with us, FIL is at BIL's place on the coast (he has the space for a travel trailer).  One fire went from 500 acres to 100,000+ acres overnight.  Others have grown to 40k acres in 12 hours. 

Estimate is that 500 square miles + is currently on fire.

Winds should be changing to an on shore flow tomorrow some time, which will hopefully blow some of these fires back onto themselves.   No precipitation in the forecast until Monday though.

Current fire/satellite fire data:  https://maps.nwcg.gov/sa/#/%3F/%3F/43.7989/-121.5349/8 


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: just Warren on September 09, 2020, 12:51:57 PM
As is Butte County along with large swaths of California.

It's the Bear Fire here and it is growing. The sky is orange and ash is raining down as bad as when it was the Camp Fire.

Th fire is close enough that parts of Paradise and Oroville are under evac orders. So it's possible that we might lose Paradise again and Oroville along with.

Hope everybody stays safe.


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: Ben on September 09, 2020, 12:56:41 PM
Best wishes for safety for our CA and OR members. I don't miss wildfire season.

Seems OR has gone the same way as CA, where they blame it all on climate change while making it incredibly difficult to do good forest management and easement maintenance for power and other companies.

Between the fires and in CA, blackouts due to heat and not enough available power, the enviro chickens are coming home to roost. Sad that they are negatively affecting innocent residents.


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: MillCreek on September 09, 2020, 01:02:11 PM
We have similar excitement going on in Eastern Washington, and even some parts of Western Washington, the wetter part of the state.


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: Silver Bullet on September 09, 2020, 01:02:38 PM
Best wishes for safety for our CA and OR members. I don't miss wildfire season.

Seems OR has gone the same way as CA, where they blame it all on climate change while making it incredibly difficult to do good forest management and easement maintenance for power and other companies.

Between the fires and in CA, blackouts due to heat and not enough available power, the enviro chickens are coming home to roost. Sad that they are negatively affecting innocent residents.


Everything here is spot on.


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: Mike Irwin on September 09, 2020, 01:09:47 PM
Can we somehow blame Trump's response to COVID for this?


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: just Warren on September 09, 2020, 01:13:34 PM
I can't find it just now but there is an article that shows what California forests should look like, as they did in the way-back times versus what they look like now because the eccommies have killed any effort to clear out undergrowth and do sensible tree harvesting.

So many small, family-owned timber companies were run out of business and now there's many fewer people doing forest management. And we see the results.

When Trump said we should "rake" our forests he got dragged by the twittidots but he wasn't wrong in principle, he just was inarticulate in expressing the idea.

Clearing the undergrowth is a very good thing, and many people have died and there's been billions in property and economic damage because it hasn't been done.


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: just Warren on September 09, 2020, 02:36:08 PM
Just saw a stat that I don't know if it's accurate but...

The Camp Fire took 17 days to get to 150k acres in size.

The Bear Fire got to 250k acres in 24 hours.

I don't what this means for the future but it ain't good.


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: fistful on September 09, 2020, 04:40:13 PM
Can we somehow blame Trump's response to COVID for this?

No, somebody found out they were having a boy.


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: Regolith on September 09, 2020, 05:56:55 PM
We're fairly safe here. The nearest fire is 14 miles away, and we're out in the middle of the valley surrounded by mostly harvested farmland without a lot to burn. Plus the fields immediately next to the house are still green, so we've got a fairly big buffer zone.

My cousin, her family, and my aunt live in Colton, though, and they just go the word to evacuate about an hour or two ago. Not sure where they're headed yet. Probably here, but that could have changed depending on what routes are open.


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: RoadKingLarry on September 09, 2020, 06:36:12 PM
So, is this what BLM/antifa meant when they said they were coming to the country?


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: AmbulanceDriver on September 09, 2020, 07:19:24 PM
So, is this what BLM/antifa meant when they said they were coming to the country?

There are *very* unconfirmed rumors that the Medford fire was arson.   Some people listening to police scanners heard that 5 arsonists had been arrested.   But that's again *very* unconfirmed.


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: PEfarmer on September 09, 2020, 07:20:10 PM
We're about a mile north of the chehalem Mt bald peak fire. Fortunately, the winds have been blowing out of the north, so we're pretty secure here. The santiam canyon fire sounds damn devastating, though. Neighbor farm is filling tenders out of their irrigation well. We're preparing to do the same out of ours.


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: freakazoid on September 09, 2020, 07:49:18 PM
There are *very* unconfirmed rumors that the Medford fire was arson.   Some people listening to police scanners heard that 5 arsonists had been arrested.   But that's again *very* unconfirmed.

Didn't that turn out to be the case with one of the big fires a year or more ago, the Australian one I think. Media had been pushing CLimAtE cHAnGe and it turned out to be multiple arsonists.


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: RocketMan on September 09, 2020, 08:02:22 PM
My niece has been posting some very eerie pictures on FB showing the red skies in her area.  She is SE of Portland in a more rural area if I remember correctly.  I need to call my Dad and ask him what can see from Tigard.
From what I've read the Santiam Pass region is just about burned out. There have been some major fires in that area over the last 10-20 years, and from the news reports, what little forest is left is burning.


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: Regolith on September 09, 2020, 08:43:47 PM
My niece has been posting some very eerie pictures on FB showing the red skies in her area.  She is SE of Portland in a more rural area if I remember correctly.  I need to call my Dad and ask him what can see from Tigard.
From what I've read the Santiam Pass region is just about burned out. There have been some major fires in that area over the last 10-20 years, and from the news reports, what little forest is left is burning.

It's been red skies here for the past three days. Yesterday it was so thick that it was near dark at 4:30 PM. This morning it was still dark enough to require headlights on my drive into work at 7:50 PM, but it started to lighten up as the day went on. My sister in Keizer had ash on her car this morning.

I took these yesterday outside my office building, at around 1 PM and then again at around 4:45 PM:

(https://i.imgur.com/ZJKzYRW.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Et9qxYN.jpg)

Same thing, except north towards the church next door:

(https://i.imgur.com/JtR6Lzx.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/5VUPrq2.jpg)

We were close to the most northern extent of it yesterday, so you can kind of see a bit of blue sky in the church shots.




Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: Ron on September 10, 2020, 03:22:01 AM
Read an article this morning that indicates the Oregon fires may be arson.


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: WLJ on September 10, 2020, 06:00:22 AM
Read an article this morning that indicates the Oregon fires may be arson.

Seen some reports saying some ANTIFA connected people have been arrested for starting fires.

Don't know how good of a source this guy is but he goes into it a little
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hkjum9u1VI

Not something I like mentioning until some sort of confirmation but who do you believe in the media anymore?


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: just Warren on September 10, 2020, 09:52:47 AM
If true what benefit could they possibly get from setting these fires?

Anybody who is opposed to them won't change their minds and embrace them, and anyone on the fence will be appalled and go the other way. It might even drive away current supporters.

Plus it would give Trump even more reason to crack down on them, and shame any state or local leadership who stood in his way.

This seems to be a straight-up losing move for them.

We know a lot of them are deranged idiots but this idea is so bad I don't see it getting approved by the smarter ones who direct and herd the idiots.


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: WLJ on September 10, 2020, 09:54:26 AM
Some people literally do like watching the world burn


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: Silver Bullet on September 10, 2020, 11:18:12 AM
Quote
This seems to be a straight-up losing move for them.

Meaning they realize they're already losing big time trying to intimidate the Trump voters and on-the-fence crowd (their antics have backfired) and they think they have nothing else to lose.


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: kgbsquirrel on September 10, 2020, 11:33:35 AM
If true what benefit could they possibly get from setting these fires?

Anybody who is opposed to them won't change their minds and embrace them, and anyone on the fence will be appalled and go the other way. It might even drive away current supporters.

Plus it would give Trump even more reason to crack down on them, and shame any state or local leadership who stood in his way.

This seems to be a straight-up losing move for them.

We know a lot of them are deranged idiots but this idea is so bad I don't see it getting approved by the smarter ones who direct and herd the idiots.

You fail to understand the war in which you are caught.


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: just Warren on September 10, 2020, 12:22:52 PM
I can't find it just now but there is an article that shows what California forests should look like, as they did in the way-back times versus what they look like now because the eccommies have killed any effort to clear out undergrowth and do sensible tree harvesting.

So many small, family-owned timber companies were run out of business and now there's many fewer people doing forest management. And we see the results.

When Trump said we should "rake" our forests he got dragged by the twittidots but he wasn't wrong in principle, he just was inarticulate in expressing the idea.

Clearing the undergrowth is a very good thing, and many people have died and there's been billions in property and economic damage because it hasn't been done.

Still have not found that article but here's one that covers the same territory:

https://amgreatness.com/2020/09/09/environmentalists-destroyed-californias-forests/


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: just Warren on September 10, 2020, 02:08:00 PM
There's something to this notion after all:

Antifi/BLM terrorist arrested for arson in Washington State.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/09/antifa-radical-arrested-arson-washington-state-caught-highway-setting-fire-lighter/


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: grampster on September 10, 2020, 07:16:27 PM
I have always been amazed that some smart lawyer has sued the pants off the environmental wacko organizations that influence getting laws passed that promote the horrible husbandry of the areas that always burn.


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: fifth_column on September 11, 2020, 05:56:06 AM
If true what benefit could they possibly get from setting these fires?

Anybody who is opposed to them won't change their minds and embrace them, and anyone on the fence will be appalled and go the other way. It might even drive away current supporters.

Plus it would give Trump even more reason to crack down on them, and shame any state or local leadership who stood in his way.

This seems to be a straight-up losing move for them.

We know a lot of them are deranged idiots but this idea is so bad I don't see it getting approved by the smarter ones who direct and herd the idiots.

These people are not interested in swaying public opinion to their way of thinking.  They are out to destroy as much as possible.  I suspect most antifa members would consider themselves anarchists.  Their goals are disruption and destruction.  They're not interested in replacing existing systems, only tearing them down. 

And I don't think those nominally in charge have any actual control of what has become in my mind "the mob."  If there is anyone that thinks they're in control of this "movement" they're delusional. 


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: MillCreek on September 11, 2020, 06:25:32 AM
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/oregon-officials-squash-rumors-that-far-right-far-left-are-setting-the-fires-ravaging-the-state/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=owned_echobox_f&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0MjVDop8k2d0t3M7dpjzKd70qskds5G0NwR3AKPw31ysZRX5fKnE4WD74#Echobox=1599798364

No evidence of right wing or left wing starting the fires.


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: TommyGunn on September 11, 2020, 06:51:17 AM
So .... people are being arrested for things no one did .... ? ? ?.... [popcorn] [tinfoil]    ;/


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: fistful on September 11, 2020, 09:33:29 AM
There's something to this notion after all:

Antifi/BLM terrorist arrested for arson in Washington State.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/09/antifa-radical-arrested-arson-washington-state-caught-highway-setting-fire-lighter/

scorched earth warfare


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: Silver Bullet on September 11, 2020, 11:26:30 AM
Bad tree hugger policies make California a net CO2 emitter

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2019/02/25/wildfires-caused-by-bad-environmental-policy-are-causing-california-forests-to-be-net-co2-emitters/#3ded09dd5e30 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2019/02/25/wildfires-caused-by-bad-environmental-policy-are-causing-california-forests-to-be-net-co2-emitters/#3ded09dd5e30)


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: Ron on September 12, 2020, 02:43:50 AM
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/oregon-officials-squash-rumors-that-far-right-far-left-are-setting-the-fires-ravaging-the-state/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=owned_echobox_f&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0MjVDop8k2d0t3M7dpjzKd70qskds5G0NwR3AKPw31ysZRX5fKnE4WD74#Echobox=1599798364

No evidence of right wing or left wing starting the fires.
There has been arson in Oregon and Washington regardless of political motivation.

All the fires are probably not arson, but I think we can agree that arson isn't helping the situation.

All the reports I've seen regarding political motivation and arson involve Antifa, who happen to be really active in the area lighting stuff in cities on fire.

Believing Oregon or Washington officials to offer an unbiased opinion might be a bit naive considering the destruction they are encouraging in their own major cities.



https://www.yaktrinews.com/eastern-washington-woman-arrested-for-starting-fires-while-crews-worked-to-fix-fallen-power-lines/
https://www.khq.com/news/arson-suspect-arrested-after-allegedly-starting-multiple-fires-in-spokane-on-monday/article_62df8a40-f223-11ea-8a02-af6f5dca5965.html
https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/2020/09/man-arrested-on-arson-allegation-in-wildfire-west-of-eugene-deputies-say.html
https://nbc16.com/news/local/man-seen-starting-fires-at-oregon-state-park-local-fire-chief-says
https://kion546.com/news/2020/09/07/woman-accused-of-intentionally-starting-fires-on-highway-101-arrested/
https://kutv.com/news/local/suspected-arson-on-the-manti-la-sal-national-forest


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: Pb on September 12, 2020, 09:58:52 AM
My wife's friend from Oregon just left from a visit to our house.

She told us a friend of hers saw "antifa" lighting hay bales on fire.


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: AmbulanceDriver on September 13, 2020, 08:33:27 AM
It is starting to look like fecesbook is actively suppressing first hand accounts of either attemtped arson or arson in rural areas of Clackamas county.   There was a video account I had posted of a woman whose husband had witnessed people attempting to or succeeding in lighting some large hay bales on fire in the Marquam area of hwy 213 (about 5 minutes from where my inlaws live, and west of the active fire lines).  That video has now been deleted - again.


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: bedlamite on September 13, 2020, 10:45:12 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZHY4RE_GLA


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: just Warren on September 13, 2020, 12:00:49 PM
If this is politically-motivated arson where are the statements claiming responsibility and threats to continue unless some set of demands are met?

One guy does not a make for a co-ordinated effort. 


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: RocketMan on September 13, 2020, 02:15:23 PM
If this is politically-motivated arson where are the statements claiming responsibility and threats to continue unless some set of demands are met?

One guy does not a make for a co-ordinated effort.

Individuals in antifa, and antifa as a movement, have not been claiming responsibility for any of their actions.  They are attempting to maintain the fiction of there being no real central organization or leadership.


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: Ron on September 14, 2020, 03:20:24 AM
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/09/12/four-arrested-for-arson-on-the-west-coast-one-a-regular-attendee-of-anti-cop-rallies-in-seattle/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+breitbart+%28Breitbart+News%29

Just a coincidence.


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: Boomhauer on September 14, 2020, 05:44:36 AM
The Alex Jones crowd thinks itĺs satellite lasers setting the fires. Sweet zombie Jesus these people are *expletive deleted*ing stupid.


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: WLJ on September 14, 2020, 05:49:01 AM
The Alex Jones crowd thinks itĺs satellite lasers setting the fires. Sweet zombie Jesus these people are *expletive deleted*ing stupid.

(https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2016/08/a56.jpg)


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: zxcvbob on September 14, 2020, 06:41:13 AM
The smoke from the west coast is supposed to arrive in central Minnesota today.  I'm in the southern part of the state and it looks farther north on the radar


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: Ben on September 14, 2020, 11:11:10 AM
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2020/09/14/wheres-your-climate-change-now-gavin-newsom-guy-arrested-for-starting-brushfire-in-portland-gets-released-allegedly-starts-more-fires/

Is the Molotov cocktail a popular tool of run of the mill arsonists?


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: Jim147 on September 14, 2020, 11:43:57 AM
It's like a leatherman to antifa. Multiple uses.


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: grampster on September 14, 2020, 01:57:57 PM
We were supposed to have bright sunny, perfectly blue sky today.  You could see the sun, but the sky was a hazy white color and the temp which was supposed to get to 70 degrees, topped out around 60.  WeatherChick said the haze was smoke from the fires.

Reports say 35 people have died.  Are there any reports as to why they were killed.  It seems to me that with these huge fires, even though they move fast, there should be enough warning so people can leave.  I am puzzled by this.  Are some folks just magnificently stupid and refuse to evacuate?


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: Angel Eyes on September 14, 2020, 05:28:37 PM
Reports say 35 people have died.  Are there any reports as to why they were killed.  It seems to me that with these huge fires, even though they move fast, there should be enough warning so people can leave.  I am puzzled by this.  Are some folks just magnificently stupid and refuse to evacuate?

Pretty much.  Or they underestimate the speed at which the fire approaches.

We had to evacuate from our home for a couple of weeks due to fire in late August. There was an elderly gentlemen several miles north of us who thought he could make it to his truck when he saw the flames approaching.  He was wrong.



Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: Ben on September 15, 2020, 07:46:14 AM
A bit of thread veer, but interesting. Who knows how accurate the reporting is, but it sounds to me like this may be a large enough area where all the neighbors DO NOT  know each other. If I happened to be going back to my home to save more stuff from burning and hit an armed road block, I don't know that my first thought would be "conscientious neighbors". I might be worried that they are the looters these groups are looking to stop, and might prepare to defend myself against a carjacking.

I applaud people protecting their property, and I'm generally a "looters should be shot" kinda guy, but this does give me food for thought regarding who is identifying who as a looter.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/oregon-wildfire-drivers-gunpoint-armed-looters


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: grampster on September 15, 2020, 09:28:58 AM
It would be poetic justice if a few looters got burned up. [popcorn]


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: Mike Irwin on September 15, 2020, 10:04:22 AM
It would be poetic justice if a few looters got burned up. [popcorn]

(https://www.inotternews.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/lOtters.jpg)


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: bedlamite on September 15, 2020, 04:52:42 PM
https://firefightingnews.com/man-arrested-for-starting-fire-in-oregon-gets-released-with-no-bail-immediately-starts-setting-fires-again/



Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: Hawkmoon on September 15, 2020, 10:15:24 PM
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/09/12/four-arrested-for-arson-on-the-west-coast-one-a-regular-attendee-of-anti-cop-rallies-in-seattle/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+breitbart+%28Breitbart+News%29

Just a coincidence.

Quote
The news comes as Democrat politicians continue to blame the fires across the region on climate change. Politicians, such as Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT), are largely using the devastation to push for a Green New Deal but continue to ignore the reality of poor forest management and environmentalist policies that contribute to the massive wildfires, such as putting an emphasis on ôfire suppressionö rather than prescribed burning.

There's a YouTube channel run by an American Airlines pilot named Juan Browne, called the Blancolirio Channel. Juan was, at one time, a pilot for the aerial firefighting service. Although he mostly posts on aviation topics, recently he has been posting about the fires in northern California (where he lives) and the efforts to fight them. He has attributed at least one, and I think two, of the largest fires to lightning strikes. And this brings us right back to Trump's position that the fires are made worse by poor forestry management. Undergrowth and deadwood aren't cleared out, so they provide lots of dry fuel for any fires that do start.

Many, many years ago I went to Germany on my honeymoon. One of the things I still remember was noticing that the forests didn't have anything on the ground. There were trees -- and that's all there was. No dead branches, no fallen trees -- nada, rien, zilch. Solo los arboles.


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: Ron on September 16, 2020, 04:17:41 AM
Trump has great instincts.

Instead of getting lost in the weeds of arson/no arson he goes for the jugular vein and avoids the distractions.

It's not climate change and it's not arson although both may be a part.

It's decades of fire suppression and poor forest management.

 


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: Ben on September 16, 2020, 04:32:02 AM
Trump has great instincts.

Instead of getting lost in the weeds of arson/no arson he goes for the jugular vein and avoids the distractions.

It's not climate change and it's not arson although both may be a part.

It's decades of fire suppression and poor forest management.

 

I crack up about the "OMG climate change!" reasoning. And hey, climate does change, climate is variable. So you adapt to it and create climate resiliency. Which would mean, if heavy rain in the Winter/Spring (often weather) is followed by higher Summer/Fall temps (also often weather), then you recognize that it might cause vastly increased growth of brush/grass/weeds and you increase forest and firebreak clearing and expedite permits for utilities to clear their easements.

Instead, we simply have people screaming "OMG climate change!" while also keeping sensible people from responding to it because they might put out a pound of carbon doing so. Solar panels and electric cars have zero impact on lightning caused (or even arson caused) wildfires. In fact one could put on a light layer of tinfoil and say that they WANT this, because more wildfires means more advertising for their cause, because too many of the sheep can't do 2+2=4. Or in the case of fire mitigation and forest management, 4-2=2.


Title: Re: Western Oregon is on fire
Post by: MechAg94 on September 16, 2020, 05:39:43 AM
Solutions are not allowed here.  Too busy complaining about the consequences of our actions.


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