Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: WLJ on September 21, 2020, 04:18:43 PM
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Rumor is the "No Justice No Peace" mob isn't going to like what it hears.
Court houses and other govt buildings were ordered closed for the week a few days ago.
Hearing Nat Guard is being staged outside of town.
The Louisville Metro Police Department has canceled all off days and vacation requests until further notice as the agency prepares for Attorney General Daniel Cameron's announcement in the Breonna Taylor case.
Sgt. Lamont Washington announced the decision in a Monday afternoon news release.
"The public may also see barriers being staged around downtown, which is another part of our preparations," Washington said in the statement.
'State of Emergency' declared by LMPD as Breonna Taylor decision looms
https://www.wdrb.com/news/state-of-emergency-declared-by-lmpd-as-breonna-taylor-decision-looms/article_b44d3b0e-fc3f-11ea-8da4-472bd3eaedae.html
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Hotdogs: Check
Popcorn: Check
Stocked up on Cat food: Check
5.56, 7.62x51 & 10mm: Check, Check & Check
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The lefty loons will riot if they don't agree with the decision. That's called tearing down the system.
The lefty loon's will riot if they do agree with the decision. That's called celebration.
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Hotdogs: Check
Popcorn: Check
Stocked up on Cat food: Check
5.56, 7.62x51 & 10mm: Check, Check & Check
Beer?
Bourbon?
Body armor?*
*although from what I've seen, the armed Left are more of a threat to themselves than anyone else.
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Beer?
Bourbon?
Body armor?*
*although from what I've seen, the armed Left are more of a threat to themselves than anyone else.
As of 18:00
Beer: Check
Bourbon: Check
Rum: Check
=D
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Wake Up America! Louisville Update
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gV32-spF9g
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Mayor's office declared a State of Emergency. Gives the mayor's office a bunch of emergency powers
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So when is the Kentucky version of the L.A. riots supposed to kick off?
Or is this just going to turn into a perpetual state of emergency?
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They just need to figure out how to tie COVID-19 and the flu into it so they can keep it going.
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So when is the Kentucky version of the L.A. riots supposed to kick off?
Or is this just going to turn into a perpetual state of emergency?
Don't know.
Hopefully after I have to be downtown tomorrow
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They just need to figure out how to tie COVID-19 and the flu into it so they can keep it going.
We got Gov Beshear Karen taking care that side of things
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Don't know.
Hopefully after I have to be downtown tomorrow
Where's the fun in that?
[ar15]
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Where's the fun in that?
[ar15]
All the beer will be at home
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You got hands....
Just sayin...
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You got hands....
Sort of
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Sort of
I was going to ask 'what caliber for....' and then I thought 'too soon'.
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If you can carry a gun, you can carry a beer!
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Don't know.
Hopefully after I have to be downtown tomorrow
When they had the little mini riots in Des Moines, IA after the whole George Floyd event, I just avoided my office there (come to think of it, I haven't been to my DSM office since then). I'm a big fan of just avoidance. I was worried Minneapolis/St. Paul was going to blow up again while I was up north hunting bear, that I mapped out every route to avoid that area to get home. If I had to, my trip went from 4 hours to 6 hours to get to and fro from my friend's cabin in WI.
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AVOIDANCE IS WHITE PRIVILEGE! YOU'RE A MONSTER!
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Sort of
Well, a pistol is a handgun, not a handsgun, so you're all set. >:D
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AVOIDANCE IS WHITE PRIVILEGE! YOU'RE A MONSTER!
Eat your heart out, spice weasel.
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(https://media.tenor.com/images/cdaaa48c452af38acd14061c44307e5a/tenor.gif)
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Eat your heart out, spice weasel.
I keep telling you that I examine my white privilege on a regular basis.
And I continue to find that it is absolutely *expletive deleted*ing awesome.
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The grand jury is expected to announce a decision in the Breonna Taylor case to Jefferson County Circuit Judge Annie O'Connell Wednesday at 1:15 p.m. Editor's note: This story will be continually updated below. Refresh often for the latest update. All times listed in Eastern Time.
https://www.whas11.com/article/news/investigations/breonna-taylor-case/grand-jury-to-announce-decision-on-breonna-taylor-case/417-8233b2bf-3bdd-48d4-a223-c5ff892f137c
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Indictment handed down as of a few minutes ago...
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/23/grand-jury-indicts-louisville-cop-in-death-of-breonna-taylor.html
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I don't think three counts of wanton endangerment will be enough to satisfy the mob.
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Yeah... My thoughts exactly... I think there are going to be some problems the next couple of evenings.
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I believe the charges are insufficient.
Cue the riots.
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Do you think the cops are the ones that should be punished for this? Was the one charged the one that requested the warrant?
It seems to me they are just the ones at the tail end. The system is set up to do exactly what happened. Punishing the officer won't change anything.
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The system is set up to do exactly what happened.
Sounds like we need to tear down the system then.
Cue the riots?
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Yeah... My thoughts exactly... I think there are going to be some problems the next couple of evenings months.
FTFY
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Do you think the cops are the ones that should be punished for this? Was the one charged the one that requested the warrant?
It seems to me they are just the ones at the tail end. The system is set up to do exactly what happened. Punishing the officer won't change anything.
While that's not a bad point, and there's blame to go around, the cops pulled the triggers. If you pull the trigger you own that bullet, even if your boss/coworker/department/culture set you up to be in a bad spot.
The cops were the ones entering in a fashion a reasonable person would think was violent. It was on them to make sure that the folks inside understood what was happening, and to hold their fire until they were sure the folks inside knew what was happening. IMNSHO, the residents of the apartment acted reasonably to people kicking in their door. The cops don't get to shoot until the residents have been proven to be unreasonable.
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Live feed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-VaRE96W8g
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Another
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt2Yso0IkK0
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I think that cops that request or execute a no knock warrant need to be criminally liable for their actions if the object of their warrant isn't present at all. First degree murder. Make them do some gorram due diligence to make sure their suspect is actually there when they go in guns blazing and no peaceable effort from a conventional warrant execution.
Also, judges that authorize no-knocks need to be culpable for conspiracy to commit murder when the warrant object isn't present at all.
I'm good with Louisville burning on this one. I hope it remains constrained to police stations and courthouses, and private property is left more or less alone.
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Confronting the BurnLootMurder crowd just seems like a bad idea.
https://twitter.com/MikeWeaponized/status/1308874634734043136
BLM is unloading riot gear from a Uhaul:
https://thepostmillennial.com/watch-anarchists-unpack-u-haul-truck-filled-with-riot-gear-in-louisville-after-breonna-taylor-verdict
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Several big MSM outlets are saying "No charges" as in zero :facepalm:
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Do you think the cops are the ones that should be punished for this? Was the one charged the one that requested the warrant?
It seems to me they are just the ones at the tail end. The system is set up to do exactly what happened. Punishing the officer won't change anything.
I think the officers should be charged. I very much think the sack of excrement who filled out the warrant application should be charged with perjury, or making false statements on an official document. They person they were after wasn't even there. The warrant was a result of sloppy detective work. It was akin to other incidents in which police have served no-knock warrants on innocent occupants of their own homes when the person the cops were after had moved out months or even years before.
As to the other cops -- I'm pretty certain they took an oath to support and defend the Constitution. The Constitution supposedly protects the People from unreasonable searches. IMHO, except in the rare cases of actual armed and dangerous fugitives, no knock and "knock and announce" (which, as executed, are virtually indistinguishable from no knock) warrants should never be issued. If some judge is dumb enough to issue such a warrant in a case like this, then the cops should refuse to serve it. Saying they were just following orders wasn't good enough at the Nuremberg trials, why is it good enough for American police officers -- who killed an innocent person?
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Several big MSM outlets are saying "No charges" as in zero :facepalm:
The charges were unrelated to Breonna Taylor's death.
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Shots fired at the police
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Guy on PT News is pissed off
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Officer down
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Reports of two officers shot in Portland
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I just heard two sets of gun shots 5 or 6 each
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And more
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Breanna Taylor was a legitimate target for a warrant.
She was a known associate of the people in the drug gang that was being investigated.
Plus there was a body found in a car rented under her name. That's going to raise some eyebrows.
The fact that the person they were looking for wasn't there is not relevant. They were looking for other things as well. So the warrant was going to be served regardless.
Under our current laws the police had a right to be there.
It's possible that Kenneth Walker really believed that it was a gang of robbers coming through his door and so he fired his gun.
Had he not fired, the cops would have not returned fire and Taylor would still be alive.
Had it been a no-knock Walker may not have had time to react and Taylor might still alive.
So there's blame to share here.
But she was no saint and her involvement in criminal activity brought the police to her door so she also deserves some of the blame.
Also the narrative that she was sleeping is not true. She was standing in her hallway when shot.
And the only way that the police could return fire and hit her and miss him totally is if he fired from behind her. I don't know if that is a criminal act but he is responsible for getting her in the cross-fire.
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:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
Chris Hayes: As President Trump refuses to commit to a peaceful transfer of power, ‘pro-regime gunmen are prowling the streets of Louisville harassing dissidents’
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2020/09/23/chris-hayes-as-president-trump-refuses-to-commit-to-a-peaceful-transfer-of-power-pro-regime-gunmen-are-prowling-the-streets-of-louisville-harassing-dissidents/
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Two officers shot
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The Left needs to better vet their black martyrs, because the last 3 they've rioted over have been dubious at best.
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Breanna Taylor was a legitimate target for a warrant.
She was a known associate of the people in the drug gang that was being investigated.
Plus there was a body found in a car rented under her name. That's going to raise some eyebrows.
The fact that the person they were looking for wasn't there is not relevant. They were looking for other things as well. So the warrant was going to be served regardless.
Under our current laws the police had a right to be there.
It's possible that Kenneth Walker really believed that it was a gang of robbers coming through his door and so he fired his gun.
Had he not fired, the cops would have not returned fire and Taylor would still be alive.
Had it been a no-knock Walker may not have had time to react and Taylor might still alive.
So there's blame to share here.
But she was no saint and her involvement in criminal activity brought the police to her door so she also deserves some of the blame.
Also the narrative that she was sleeping is not true. She was standing in her hallway when shot.
And the only way that the police could return fire and hit her and miss him totally is if he fired from behind her. I don't know if that is a criminal act but he is responsible for getting her in the cross-fire.
Yes, and the leaked transcripts of jail phone calls are pretty revealing. I don't particularly find myself a cheering section for cops usually but from Ferguson on that is where I find myself. Fix the warrant system(both war on drugs and FISA) but lets stop pretending these are noble causes. The facts matter not one bit to the people trying to tear down civilization. They don't want to end abuse of police power, they just want the club.
But she was no saint and her involvement in criminal activity brought the police to her door so she also deserves some of the blame.
The penalty for running around with drug dealers is not death in the legal system. But it might be in the real world. I will not associate in the least with people I know to do drugs, make illegal guns, whatever just because I know guilt by association and I am terrified for any of my property and their property to exist in the same place. I don't want to ever have to use the "not my pants" defense.
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Reports of two officers shot in Portland
It was two people shot in the Portland neighborhood of Louisville
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Taylor protest in Denver. So the driver of this car was arrested (or detained - I'm not sure of the distinction in this case). Everything I saw in the clip is what I would consider self-defense. I see at least a half dozen protestors that should have been arrested though.
Fox News is getting as annoying as CNN. "Plows through". It makes it sound like he attacked the protestors instead of trying to get the hell out of there.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/denver-police-detain-driver-after-vehicle-plows-into-breonna-taylor-protesters
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The Left needs to better vet their black martyrs, because the last 3 they've rioted over have been dubious at best.
Why stop at 3? I would say nearly every one has been dubious for past 20 or more years.
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Yes, and the leaked transcripts of jail phone calls are pretty revealing.
What did they say? ???
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Taylor protest in Denver. So the driver of this car was arrested (or detained - I'm not sure of the distinction in this case). Everything I saw in the clip is what I would consider self-defense. I see at least a half dozen protestors that should have been arrested though.
Fox News is getting as annoying as CNN. "Plows through". It makes it sound like he attacked the protestors instead of trying to get the hell out of there.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/denver-police-detain-driver-after-vehicle-plows-into-breonna-taylor-protesters
I'm not trying to be combatitive or pick on you specifically, but I think we (conservitive-ish folks who think about self defense and wargame these things) don't really make good decisions on these protests. Firstly we post on social media, and then we make assumptions that aren't supportable.
So in the interest of conversation I offer the following:
CO law on self defense:
(1) Except as provided in subsections (2) and (3) of this section, a person is justified in using physical force upon another person in order to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by that other person, and he may use a degree of force which he reasonably believes to be necessary for that purpose.
(2) Deadly physical force may be used only if a person reasonably believes a lesser degree of force is inadequate and:
(a) The actor has reasonable ground to believe, and does believe, that he or another person is in imminent danger of being killed or of receiving great bodily injury; or
(b) The other person is using or reasonably appears about to use physical force against an occupant of a dwelling or business establishment while committing or attempting to commit burglary as defined in sections 18-4-202 to 18-4-204 ; or
(c) The other person is committing or reasonably appears about to commit kidnapping as defined in section 18-3-301 or 18-3-302 , robbery as defined in section 18-4-301 or 18-4-302 , sexual assault as set forth in section 18-3-402 , or in section 18-3-403 as it existed prior to July 1, 2000, or assault as defined in sections 18-3-202 and 18-3-203 .
I don't think there's much argument that running over people with a car can kill them, and is probably deadly force (although everyone survived here) So we are in section 2 of the law.
Subsection b doesn't apply on it's face.
Subsection c does have kidnapping, so lets look at that: 18-3-302 Is second degree kidnapping and requires seizing AND carrying a person, person in car was not moved so that's a no go. 18-3-301 is first degree kidnapping which is defined as:
(1) Any person who does any of the following acts with the intent thereby to force the victim or any other person to make any concession or give up anything of value in order to secure a release of a person under the offender's actual or apparent control commits first degree kidnapping:
(a) Forcibly seizes and carries any person from one place to another; or
(b) Entices or persuades any person to go from one place to another; or
(c) Imprisons or forcibly secretes any person.
The second video in the fox news article clearly show the mob to turn around and drive the other way. That is also reported by the "journalists" at the scene. Hard to argue imprisonment there. I think subsection c of the self defense law is not going to fly either. Which leaves:
The actor has reasonable ground to believe, and does believe, that he or another person is in imminent danger of being killed or of receiving great bodily injury
Emphasis mine. I watched both those videos a couple times, and went to the poster's twitter feed to look for more. That word imminent is, I think, going to be a problem for the driver. If it had been like the guy in PA where they broke the rear window? Sure, probably. Trying to open locked doors? Again, you can probably make that argument. Blocking your travel and telling you to turn around is going to be a tough one to claim imminent danger. Especially in Denver.*
We've talked about this enough here that I am well aware of what some of these mobs have done. Cars get shot at, people get hurt, it absolutely happens. But you, I, or random Subaru driver don't get to [legally] apply what a random mob in another state did to the mob that you are dealing with right now (hypothetically).
I generally like everyone on this board enough to hope you don't get hurt, killed, jailed, or lose everything in a lawsuit, and in that vein, I think we owe it to our little community here to have realistic conversations about what is legal, not just what you think, or you'd like to see done. Generally, absent any actual violence, someone blocking your travel in America is not justification for use of deadly force no matter how much you might think it should be.
It would have been a lot smarter for that driver to try and turn around and leave. If the mob blocks that, you are in a much stronger position to justify the unassing through the crunchies.
Let me know if I missed a relevant CO law. If 230RN or another Coloradan has insight I'd be interested.
*In addition to the plain language [heh] of the laws a prudent person is aware of the biases of the local and state police and prosecutors and adjusts their responses accordingly.
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Being mobbed in a vehicle has to be an absolutely terrifying thing (which is, of course, the entire reason they are mobbing vehicles).
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Being mobbed in a vehicle has to be an absolutely terrifying thing (which is, of course, the entire reason they are mobbing vehicles).
Agreed. It's about the perfect storm of as terrifying and intimidating as one can be without triggering most justifiable homicide laws. Of course some folks edge across that line as well (AK guy in Austin, the folks that opened the car door on the Drill Sgt in Seattle, etc)
ETA: Also panicky people often don't make great, fully thought out decisions. A savvy mob organizer can be prepared to capture these decisions and make sure they are broadcast, while suppressing video of their own side's misdeeds. see: this conversation vs. the videos of the cop taking a baseball bat to the dome that have been removed from Twitter (ref: Portland thread)
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Being mobbed in a vehicle has to be an absolutely terrifying thing (which is, of course, the entire reason they are mobbing vehicles).
This is why, other than him accurately quoting the law, I can't really agree with Dogmush.
Preface: If the guy knew there were riots in the area, he absolutely should have avoided the area. But how are you supposed to keep track of where these pop up? Yes, he could have just turned around if he was thinking clearly and has some situational awareness. But refer to what Cordex said.
We don't know that while they were arguing, people weren't trying to open his doors, or that they didn't verbally threaten his life. In a situation where someone should have the absolute right of free passage, he may have panicked because of some act or language from the rioters (or if some don't like me using "rioters", then "non-peaceful protestors").
If someone was trying to get in my car, or threatened me in that situation, I might feel trapped and scared, and if my car was already in "D", I'm hitting the accelerator, not taking the time to switching gears to reverse first.
Again, not the law, but if he saw as many videos as the rest of us regarding what these rioters do to people in vehicles, that could certainly have played into his choices and fear.
The law is not always fair, or fairly applied. If it were, there would have been no one blocking his path on a public thoroughfare to begin with.
Edit: Dogmush posted while I was typing.
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Taylor protest in Denver. So the driver of this car was arrested (or detained - I'm not sure of the distinction in this case). Everything I saw in the clip is what I would consider self-defense. I see at least a half dozen protestors that should have been arrested though.
Fox News is getting as annoying as CNN. "Plows through". It makes it sound like he attacked the protestors instead of trying to get the hell out of there.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/denver-police-detain-driver-after-vehicle-plows-into-breonna-taylor-protesters
https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2020/09/14/trump-sacramento-visit-protester-chaos-chp-cruiser/
Little difference between the two except here it was a LEO driving a CHP cruiser.
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Also, I want to be crystal clear in this conversation:
I consider these people my enemy. If you are caught in one of these protests you have essentially driven into an enemy ambush, and are engaged in violence (either physical or rhetorical) on ground the enemy has chosen. My conversation on this subject isn't to make excuses for the enemy, or pretend that they are OK, but rather to point out some things I think you, my online friends, want to plan in advance to maximize your odds of defeating the enemy's ambush, not just there on the road, but in the courts and the court of public opinion.
Make a plan, have a plan b, do battle drills just like you do for drawing a weapon from concealment, so that if you get caught, and are panicked or scared, you aren't trying to do this on the fly.
But your plans should include what is possible (avoidance, backing up, going off road, whatever), what is legal (Use of deadly force in your jurisdiction, dashcams and sound recordings to make sure you have evidence of your side, etc), and what the social situation in your area is (will there be a group outside your home the next night, is the DA liberal and up for election, etc). Be realistic about it though because the enemy is both realistic, and doing pretty well so far. And successful ambushes breed more ambushes.
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Also, I want to be crystal clear in this conversation:
I consider these people my enemy. If you are caught in one of these protests you have essentially driven into an enemy ambush, and are engaged in violence (either physical or rhetorical) on ground the enemy has chosen. My conversation on this subject isn't to make excuses for the enemy, or pretend that they are OK, but rather to point out some things I think you, my online friends, want to plan in advance to maximize your odds of defeating the enemy's ambush, not just there on the road, but in the courts and the court of public opinion.
Make a plan, have a plan b, do battle drills just like you do for drawing a weapon from concealment, so that if you get caught, and are panicked or scared, you aren't trying to do this on the fly.
But your plans should include what is possible (avoidance, backing up, going off road, whatever), what is legal (Use of deadly force in your jurisdiction, dashcams and sound recordings to make sure you have evidence of your side, etc), and what the social situation in your area is (will there be a group outside your home the next night, is the DA liberal and up for election, etc). Be realistic about it though because the enemy is both realistic, and doing pretty well so far. And successful ambushes breed more ambushes.
I can't disagree with any of this. I also am unsure, if I happened through stupidity or otherwise, to end up in one of these situations, that I wouldn't go from "Ben the AJ Squared Away keyboard warrior" to "Ben who pissed his pants and smashed down on the accelerator".
Avoidance of these is the number one tactic, but if someone gets caught up in it, law or otherwise, my sympathy will generally lie with the person in the car, even if they do something dumb. Obviously with exceptions like an armchair warrior going into a situation looking for trouble.
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(avoidance, backing up, going off road, whatever
My favorite thing to do. You can usually see a mob/situation a few blocks in front of you, pick a different street/turn around. Most of these riots situations are predictable if you listen to the news, just avoid that part of town. No reason is worth it.
Some of these people who drive in to mobs remind me of the same people who try to drive through flood waters. Darwin has to come into play sometimes.
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My favorite thing to do. You can usually see a mob/situation a few blocks in front of you, pick a different street/turn around. Most of these riots situations are predictable if you listen to the news, just avoid that part of town. No reason is worth it.
To the extent that the mob events are predictable or avoidable I absolutely agree. That said, they aren't always predictable or avoidable. Nor should people have to check every time they get in the car to see if any motorist-threatening mobs have popped up along their route home.
Also, unlike you a lot of people don't have the option of avoiding their urban offices whenever they want.
Some of these people who drive in to mobs remind me of the same people who try to drive through flood waters. Darwin has to come into play sometimes.
That's kind of how I feel about the people who play in the street.
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Here in Washington, we have case law such that if you are in your car, someone breaks your window and tries to drag you out, you cannot use deadly force. The driver in that instance was convicted of first degree manslaughter and served time.
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Nor should people have to check every time they get in the car to see if any motorist-threatening mobs have popped up along their route home.
Situational awareness, people check for weather conditions and road closures.
Also, unlike you a lot of people don't have the option of avoiding their urban offices whenever they want.
Always a choice. You don't have to go to work when your sick, take a sick day or two. If you think you have to be on your boss's call 24/7, time to switch employers. If my employer wouldn't understand during a urban unrest situation or potential, I don't want to work there.
That's kind of how I feel about the people who play in the street.
I don't want to explain myself in front of a judge and jury when I'm being charged with manslaughter, when I could of chose a different path.
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To the extent that the mob events are predictable or avoidable I absolutely agree. That said, they aren't always predictable or avoidable. Nor should people have to check every time they get in the car to see if any motorist-threatening mobs have popped up along their route home.
Also, unlike you a lot of people don't have the option of avoiding their urban offices whenever they want.
That's kind of how I feel about the people who play in the street.
All this. While someone who's not "livin' in the holler without electricity" could easily find news on what's going on at the big riots in downtown Portland, Seattle, Louisville, etc., not so for probably 70% of these roadblock "protests". The whole design is "spontaneous" in order to disrupt lives.
There in no "riot radio" equivalent of weather radio for people to check every time before they leave their homes, nor should they have to. That's actually ridiculous. If you're in a situation where you can see what's happening a half mile in front of you, sure, cuss at the inconvenience, detour, and avoid trouble. That's not always the case. Many of these "protests" seem to be designed to hit bottleneck areas just so they can inconvenience as many commuters as possible.
Then of course there are the increasing invasions into suburban spaces and residential neighborhoods. Someone could easily be coming home from work rather than going to work and run into aholes in the street in their own damn neighborhood two blocks from their home.
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Situational awareness, people check for weather conditions and road closures.
Sometimes, sure. Weather can often be forecasted some time in advance, and planned road closures usually are announced too. Pop-up rioting not always so much. There was a "peaceful protest" about a mile from my office during which several cars had guns pulled on them by a mob closing down the street. I didn't hear about it until the next day - certainly not in time to adjust my drive had I been going that direction. Speaking as someone who has the luxury of following the news pretty closely, I'm pretty sure there was no announcement that could have warned me so I'm going to have to call BS on that.
I'm all for people taking responsibility for their own situations and avoiding being in places where bad things are likely to happen wherever you can, but you're really going out of your way to try to blame the drivers who are being attacked by rioters.
Always a choice. You don't have to go to work when your sick, take a sick day or two. If you think you have to be on your boss's call 24/7, time to switch employers. If my employer wouldn't understand during a urban unrest situation or potential, I don't want to work there.
Urban unrest has been an ongoing "potential" in many cities pretty much all summer. People rioted in a number of cities across the country last night based on the Louisville announcement. Sure, if I worked in Louisville I'd probably have taken yesterday off, but not many people in 2020 can afford to take off work every time there is a risk of urban rioting. Portland is at how many days of almost continuous "urban unrest"? I know they hit 100 straight days earlier this month.
I don't want to explain myself in front of a judge and jury when I'm being charged with manslaughter, when I could of chose a different path.
Of course. I'm not suggesting people should mow down everyone they see in the road. That said, for someone who is quick to damn a driver for having insufficient situational awareness to properly predict when and where rioters might theoretically block a road you seem to have very little critical to say about the situational awareness of people who actually step in front of a car and start beating on it with rocks, bottles, and signs and act shocked when the driver decides to not be where the riot is.
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All this. While someone who's not "livin' in the holler without electricity" could easily find news on what's going on at the big riots in downtown Portland, Seattle, Louisville, etc., not so for probably 70% of these roadblock "protests". The whole design is "spontaneous" in order to disrupt lives.
There in no "riot radio" equivalent of weather radio for people to check every time before they leave their homes, nor should they have to. That's actually ridiculous. If you're in a situation where you can see what's happening a half mile in front of you, sure, cuss at the inconvenience, detour, and avoid trouble. That's not always the case. Many of these "protests" seem to be designed to hit bottleneck areas just so they can inconvenience as many commuters as possible.
Then of course there are the increasing invasions into suburban spaces and residential neighborhoods. Someone could easily be coming home from work rather than going to work and run into aholes in the street in their own damn neighborhood two blocks from their home.
It's all about choices one makes. Google maps on my phone alerts me if traffic is stopped or slower than normal down the road in front of me. If we are talking pre smart phone era, I'd agree with you on no "riot radio". Perhaps those who get hung up in a riot either are looking for a fight or have their head up their ass. As I said earlier when I go to northern Wisconsin, the quickest route is through the twin cities from my place to my friend's cabin. This year I checked the riot situation in the twin cities before I traveled to there or back home. I had alternative routes home that went far from the twin cities, even had paper maps of MN and WI (I know about every paved road in north Iowa and our gravel roads are section lines) if the internet was down.
If a riot was happening 2 blocks from my house, more than likely the police will have re-routed traffic before you get that close and there won't be anything you can do about it except bitch on the Internet. Perhaps instead of thinking that you have no choice other than going through the mob, come up (today) with an escape plan for those at home and rally point outside of the city limits? If they burn your house down, insurance more than likely isn't going to cover it and you can't defend your property by shooting in most places without going to prison yourself. Life isn't fair, pick a better place to work/live next time. Lots of jobs (and cheap living) in flyover country small cities/towns with very little risk of urban violence.
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Funny you should mention "Riot Radio".
This Blog (https://survivalblog.com/intelligence-gathering-protests-j-d/?fbclid=IwAR1uqBMhKM4NB4SyF69lJ3NcOukGLEvyU0VH2Bj2ZSkU8Y8TpOoXTqC3wsw) (I got pointed to from a FB Group) talks about some of the things the author saw in several of these protests, including the use of coms. I've seen this before in videos of the protests roaming the streets and some on roads. Coms and earpieces. I am wondering if a decnet low cost VHF/UHF scanner might not pick up some interesting things near a protest. I'm not (yet) curious enough to get close to a protest and find out, but I suspect their radio OPSEC isn't great. If I lived in Portland or Seattle I would have figured it out already just due to the increased activity. (So far my town has only seen a handful of roaming mobs)
But a scanner monitoring protest coms might very well let you know where the excitement is ala "riot radio".
I also have joined local FB and Twitter groups around antifa/BLM (using accounts other than my normal ones) which helpfully send me alerts when local protests are being planned.
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Sometimes, sure. Weather can often be forecasted some time in advance, and planned road closures usually are announced too. Pop-up rioting not always so much. There was a "peaceful protest" about a mile from my office during which several cars had guns pulled on them by a mob closing down the street. I didn't hear about it until the next day - certainly not in time to adjust my drive had I been going that direction. Speaking as someone who has the luxury of following the news pretty closely, I'm pretty sure there was no announcement that could have warned me so I'm going to have to call BS on that.
I'm all for people taking responsibility for their own situations and avoiding being in places where bad things are likely to happen wherever you can, but you're really going out of your way to try to blame the drivers who are being attacked by rioters.
Urban unrest has been an ongoing "potential" in many cities pretty much all summer. People rioted in a number of cities across the country last night based on the Louisville announcement. Sure, if I worked in Louisville I'd probably have taken yesterday off, but not many people in 2020 can afford to take off work every time there is a risk of urban rioting. Portland is at how many days of almost continuous "urban unrest"? I know they hit 100 straight days earlier this month.
Of course. I'm not suggesting people should mow down everyone they see in the road. That said, for someone who is quick to damn a driver for having insufficient situational awareness to properly predict when and where rioters might theoretically block a road you seem to have very little critical to say about the situational awareness of people who actually step in front of a car and start beating on it with rocks, bottles, and signs and act shocked when the driver decides to not be where the riot is.
I'm not blaming all the drivers caught, sometimes *expletive deleted*it happens, but just a little bit of thinking and planning before you journey anywhere, would let you avoid a lot of situations. Getting stuck in a moving vehicle on urban streets during a riot is 100% avoidable, on a controlled highway (like what happened on I-94 last night in St. Paul) is harder to get out of, but looking down the road and seeing a bunch of tail lights glowing my be a warning something is up and perhaps find an way off the route?
One or 2 people jumping in front of your car with no crowds in a the area is not a riot situation, yes that would be mostly unpredictable, be like a dog running out in to the road in front of you.
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It's all about choices one makes. Google maps on my phone alerts me if traffic is stopped or slower than normal down the road in front of me.
If a riot was happening 2 blocks from my house, more than likely the police will have re-routed traffic before you get that close and there won't be anything you can do about it except bitch on the Internet.
Google maps is absolutely unreliable for something like that. It's not even reliable for regular traffic updates on other than very busy roads/highways. At least 50% of the time that I find myself stuck in traffic and check the maps app, it doesn't show anything.
As to police being there, if they were there in force and enforcing laws, people wouldn't have to resort to running the roadblocks. Kyle Rittenhouse ran by a whole gaggle of police who didn't do anything because they were busy with other stuff.
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Google maps is absolutely unreliable for something like that. It's not even reliable for regular traffic updates on other than very busy roads/highways. At least 50% of the time that I find myself stuck in traffic and check the maps app, it doesn't show anything.
As to police being there, if they were there in force and enforcing laws, people wouldn't have to resort to running the roadblocks. Kyle Rittenhouse ran by a whole gaggle of police who didn't do anything because they were busy with other stuff.
Maybe I'm blessed where I live and work, maybe I have Jedi skills.
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Maybe I'm blessed where I live and work, maybe I have Jedi skills.
Then you might not have the high ground on basically saying drivers in other areas are to blame if they get stuck in a bad situation.
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Let's make blocking streets during a protest illegal unless there is a permit pulled and an alternative route for traffic provided.
Streets are a public right away for cars and bikes.
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Let's make blocking streets during a protest illegal unless there is a permit pulled and an alternative route for traffic provided.
Streets are a public right away for cars and bikes.
Hey, quit trying to make sense.
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Then you might not have the high ground on basically saying drivers in other areas are to blame if they get stuck in a bad situation.
Probably but some people do have their head up their asses and/or can't think outside the box.
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The son of a friend of mine works at one of Louisville's downtown hotels. He said his hotel is about the only one open and he's a jack of all trades there now due to lack of staff. All the news people are staying there. He said the entire perimeter and every street of the city is blocked by heavy vehicles and there's a curfew. Downtown is basically abandoned. He brought the police food and beverages last night and they were very grateful.
He got a call from one of his co-workers yesterday and she asked him if it's safe to come into work. He told her it was totally her call. At 11:00 last night she called him and said the shooting of two cops happened right outside her apartment, so she'll be taking some time off.
I suppose it's her own fault for lacking "situational awareness" ...
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The son of a friend of mine works at one of Louisville's downtown hotels. He said his hotel is about the only one open and he's a jack of all trades there now due to lack of staff. All the news people are staying there. He said the entire perimeter and every street of the city is blocked by heavy vehicles and there's a curfew. Downtown is basically abandoned. He brought the police food and beverages last night and they were very grateful.
He got a call from one of his co-workers yesterday and she asked him if it's safe to come into work. He told her it was totally her call. At 11:00 last night she called him and said the shooting of two cops happened right outside her apartment, so she'll be taking some time off.
I suppose it's her own fault for lacking "situational awareness" ...
She made the decision to stay put instead of going to work. I would say that is situational awareness.
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Let's make blocking streets during a protest illegal unless there is a permit pulled and an alternative route for traffic provided.
Streets are a public right away for cars and bikes.
Yes, absolutely, but other folks breaking the law does not give us the right to do so. As I said before, in *most* cases a mob blocking the street is not going to be justification for running them over (unless you are law enforcement, different rules there). Which is why the driver that started this conversation was detained.
Basically: Shoulda, woulda, coulda. Don't plan for what should be, plan for what IS.
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Yes, absolutely, but other folks breaking the law does not give us the right to do so. As I said before, in *most* cases a mob blocking the street is not going to be justification for running them over
But I think we should clarify that. If they are really, truly peaceful and all they've done is block the road shouting obnoxious slogans, if I can't back away, I might be inclined to just sit there and open a book on the phone, like I do if there's a pileup on the freeway that I got stuck behind.
Once they start yelling at me though, or threatening me, or start beating on my car, or trying to open my doors, the phone goes away, the gun goes in my lap, and legal or not, I'm ready to use the car as a weapon if by that time I'm even able to and not blocked in by other cars.
And that's me as a single guy. If I had a family / children in the car, my fear for their safety might have pegged well before then.
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You do you. There's an AR and 5 mags plus plates in the back of my truck today, and I drove the truck instead of the sedan specifically because I was concerned about "drive over obstacle capabilities" after some sportiness in St. Pete last night, so I understand your feelings.
My whole argument has been not to kowtow to the enemy, but rather to be aware of their tactics and prepared for any of the various tactics they use from twitter videos to Reginald Denny.
Just be aware that if you pull a gun because a crowd stopped you and was yelling at you, you are very likely breaking the law, and at risk for being the bad guy on twitter and MSM and possibly arrest warrants. Justification for brandishing varies by local, so just know where you are at.
I guess I am also trying to articulate that "self defense", at this point, has expanded from just surviving the encounter (which is trivially easy in a car) to surviving, winning the legal battle, and winning the media spin so the next mob doesn't come to your house or drive you to suicide. You are doing yourself a disservice to concentrate on the easy part (surviving the encounter) at the expense of winning the after battles.
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Here in Washington, we have case law such that if you are in your car, someone breaks your window and tries to drag you out, you cannot use deadly force. The driver in that instance was convicted of first degree manslaughter and served time.
Could you provide more specifics? Curious as another WA resident.
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Just be aware that if you pull a gun because a crowd stopped you and was yelling at you, you are very likely breaking the law, and at risk for being the bad guy on twitter and MSM and possibly arrest warrants. Justification for brandishing varies by local, so just know where you are at.
I wasn't talking about pulling and pointing (initially), but having it better prepared than a holster or door pocket if a rock or bat go through my window and I can't use the car to get away. I don't think I would do the display thing that the guy in Louisiville did the other day (but maybe - I wasn't there in his shoes), which I guess got him fired from his job.
I guess I am also trying to articulate that "self defense", at this point, has expanded from just surviving the encounter (which is trivially easy in a car) to surviving, winning the legal battle, and winning the media spin so the next mob doesn't come to your house or drive you to suicide. You are doing yourself a disservice to concentrate on the easy part (surviving the encounter) at the expense of winning the after battles.
This is a sad fact that will get someone seriously injured or killed - because of the fear of them going to jail instead of the aggressor - in the back of their mind during any encounters.
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winning the media spin
While I agree with your overall point you've been making, I don't think there's a lot you can do to control this.
And to the extent you can control this, having any post history on a forum like this is probably unwise. :-X
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I may have missed it, but did the local police release the video from the police raid that killed Breonna Taylor? I haven't been paying attention to the details of this case lately.
I heard people mention that it appears the police knocked and announced themselves and shots were fire through the door at the police before they fired. I haven't seen anything official talk about that.
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I heard people mention that it appears the police knocked and announced themselves and shots were fire through the door at the police before they fired. I haven't seen anything official talk about that.
Knock-and-announce warrants are functionally the same as no-knock warrants. Courts have ruled that the police only have to wait a ridiculously short time between the announcement before they can initiate a "dynamic entry" (that's SWAT talk for busting down the door). I think I've seen numbers as low as 15 seconds, but maybe it was 30 seconds.
That's not enough time, and they know it. I'm a heavy sleeper, I sleep in a second floor bedroom, and there are no windows facing the front of the house on the second floor. There's a hall between my bedroom door (which I close at night) and the stairs, and another hall between the stairs and the front door on the ground floor. Someone could be pounding on the door for fifteen minutes and I probably wouldn't wake up. What would possibly wake me up would be someone breaking through the front door -- because that would set off the alarm. And since I know I haven't committed any crimes, my first assumption would be that anyone breaking into my house is a bad guy. If they come up the stairs, I'm likely going to open fire. And I think that's a reasonable response. I have posted before that my brother once lived very close to where the Petit family were killed, in Cheshire, Connecticut. Probably because I knew little brother had lived nearby, I followed that case fairly closely. It's certainly going to be front and center in my thought processes if someone breaks into my house. And anyone can say, "I'm the police."
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I may have missed it, but did the local police release the video from the police raid that killed Breonna Taylor? I haven't been paying attention to the details of this case lately.
The police have said that no footage of the raid exists.
https://www.wdrb.com/in-depth/lmpd-photos-show-at-least-1-officer-wearing-body-cam-on-night-of-breonna-taylor/article_8a31d070-eebe-11ea-8dac-1f2491f002dc.html
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The police have said that no footage of the raid exists.
https://www.wdrb.com/in-depth/lmpd-photos-show-at-least-1-officer-wearing-body-cam-on-night-of-breonna-taylor/article_8a31d070-eebe-11ea-8dac-1f2491f002dc.html
Damned convenient that is.
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Damned convenient that is.
I'm sure it's just a coincidence.
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The police have said that no footage of the raid exists.
https://www.wdrb.com/in-depth/lmpd-photos-show-at-least-1-officer-wearing-body-cam-on-night-of-breonna-taylor/article_8a31d070-eebe-11ea-8dac-1f2491f002dc.html
Okay. I also heard the two in the house were not asleep when the shooting started. I hear the man was behind Taylor when he fired which is partly why she was the one who was shot.
If the evidence points to the police still being outside when they were fired on and then returning fire through the door, that explains the charges and why it is not murder. If the original article had that information, it would have looked a little different.
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https://www.tatumreportexclusive.com/shocking-report-leaked-in-breonna-taylor-death-investigation-shows-how-involved-she-really-was/
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Not to start any more arguments on the subject, but I thought it interesting that the LAPD statement here is that the Prius driver tried to "drive around" the protest. While the pickup driver in the LAPD statement (video is in another Twitchy article) likely was arguing with protestors or otherwise exasperating the situation, what I'm getting out of the LAPD statement is that the Prius driver was an example of someone unaware/accidentally driving into the situation and then reacting out of fear. So while likely making some mistakes that got them into the situation, I'm not sure I can otherwise fault that driver for how he/she got out of the situation.
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2020/09/25/lapd-detains-prius-driver-after-largely-peaceful-protesters-attempt-to-extract-him-from-his-car-in-hollywood-video/
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I would also say that you can let off the brake and move forward slowly in low gear and have much less likelihood of actually running someone over. I think I would do that if people were laying hands on my truck. If they were trying to break the windows or presenting a real threat, that changes things. Like any potential self defense incident, we have to be very careful on when to take the next level of response.
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I would also say that you can let off the brake and move forward slowly in low gear and have much less likelihood of actually running someone over. I think I would do that if people were laying hands on my truck. If they were trying to break the windows or presenting a real threat, that changes things. Like any potential self defense incident, we have to be very careful on when to take the next level of response.
Yeah, my example above was interesting from the two different reactions: The pickup guy looked to be accelerating when he hit the rioter. The Prius guy just kinda eased his way through, even though people were banging on his car, then accelerated when he was clear of the mob. He didn't get "defensive" until the rioter cars chased him down and attacked him. I did notice that while he was detained, I saw no evidence of the occupants of the truck that rammed him being detained.
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Okay, I saw the video of the prius. He got through the protest without incident. They chased him down in other vehicles and tried to block him in while they attacked him. That is immediately a threat. There is no "peaceful" in that at all. At least that one person reaching through the window did enough to justify deadly force.
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Okay, I saw the video of the prius. He got through the protest without incident. They chased him down in other vehicles and tried to block him in while they attacked him. That is immediately a threat. There is no "peaceful" in that at all. At least that one person reaching through the window did enough to justify deadly force.
In the real world, before the riots, the driver would have been justified in using whatever force was necessary to extract himself from that potentially deadly situation. In the world as it currently is, with rioters being the newest protected class in some cities, maybe not so much.
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Is there a pool running yet for when someone starts doing donuts in one of these "protests"
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Despite Williams' frustrations with how the process unraveled, he said that even as an activist himself, it's clear to see that the officers were only doing their jobs that night. He fully agrees that the two officers who were not charged, Sgt. Jonathan Mattingly and Det. Myles Cosgrove, did the right thing that night in Taylor's apartment.
"You can not and should not indict the other two officers who had the warrant signed by a judge, consistent with the law, the constitution, practice, custom and procedure," Williams said. "They were simply doing their job."
Lawyer, former Louisville NAACP president says grand jury correct not to indict 2 officers in Breonna Taylor case
https://www.wdrb.com/news/lawyer-former-louisville-naacp-president-says-grand-jury-correct-not-to-indict-2-officers-in/article_bcb5c4dc-feab-11ea-9813-73f9355c1765.html
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Two different jet charters left here today less than an hour apart, same charter company, destination Louisville, KY. I wonder if there is any significance to that vis-Ã -vis the riots. They both came in from other cities shortly before their departures to Louisville.
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Two different jet charters left here today less than an hour apart, same charter company, destination Louisville, KY. I wonder if there is any significance to that vis-Ã -vis the riots. They both came in from other cities shortly before their departures to Louisville.
Feds maybe?
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Yeah, that'll help calm things down
Speaker Pelosi: "Justice was denied for Breonna Taylor and her family. Just think if it were your daughter, your sister, your cousin, your relative, your friend who was murdered by the police and the charging decision held no one accountable for her death." pic.twitter.com/ZpyC5tWBHN
— The Hill (@thehill) September 24, 2020
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2020/09/25/nancy-pelosi-uses-breonna-taylors-death-to-pour-a-few-thousand-more-barrels-of-gasoline-on-the-anti-police-fire-video/
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Not to start any more arguments on the subject, but I thought it interesting that the LAPD statement here is that the Prius driver tried to "drive around" the protest. While the pickup driver in the LAPD statement (video is in another Twitchy article) likely was arguing with protestors or otherwise exasperating the situation, what I'm getting out of the LAPD statement is that the Prius driver was an example of someone unaware/accidentally driving into the situation and then reacting out of fear. So while likely making some mistakes that got them into the situation, I'm not sure I can otherwise fault that driver for how he/she got out of the situation.
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2020/09/25/lapd-detains-prius-driver-after-largely-peaceful-protesters-attempt-to-extract-him-from-his-car-in-hollywood-video/
Holy crap. I mean it's LA so you expect stuidity, but yeah, if they chase you down, block your car, and "attempt to extract" you from your vehicle I think it's probably time to flip the switch and start violence. Hope you have evidence of you trying to get away without hurting anyone. Dashcam with audio might be handy.
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Feds maybe?
That was my first thought. One aircraft was an old DC-9, the other a smaller biz jet. Who would want to go to Louisville right now if they didn't have to.
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if they chase you down, block your car, and "attempt to extract" you from your vehicle I think it's probably time to flip the switch and start violence.
Wrong.
At that point, the violence has already started. You have to decide how you will respond to it.
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Wrong.
At that point, the violence has already started. You have to decide how you will respond to it.
I meant YOU should start violence, as opposed to the restraint I was urging earlier in the thread.
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Hope you have evidence of you trying to get away without hurting anyone. Dashcam with audio might be handy.
I got the impression the video was from a news helo or similar. If so, that would be pretty good unbiased evidence. But yeah, it sure is a good reason to run a dashcam these days.
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Criticizing BLM & ANTIFA can get you relieved of your command
Louisville Police Major relieved of 5th Division command after controversial personal emails
https://www.wdrb.com/news/louisville-police-major-relieved-of-5th-division-command-after-controversial-personal-emails/article_964ca48e-ff4e-11ea-8caa-135d04b5f755.html
LMPD major to step down following email about ANTIFA, BLM
https://www.wave3.com/2020/09/25/lmpd-major-step-down-following-email-about-antifa-blm/
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Why in the hell do any of the cops in the libtard controlled cities stay?
(yeah, I know, they need a paycheck same as the rest of us but damn....)
It would fill me with schadenfreude and joy to see an entire large metro area that has been inundated with antifa and blm and then told to play nice with them by their city government to see the entire police force just quit en mass with middle fingers raised to the sky
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Protesters at the restaurant where my daughter works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf7mk3J73X4&feature=youtu.be
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Protesters at the restaurant where my daughter works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf7mk3J73X4&feature=youtu.be
Unless there is a new movement protesting the lack of structural integrity endemic among patio furniture, those aren't protesters, those are vandals.
As an aside, I firmly believe in the appropriateness of peaceably assembling to petition the government. As a 2A advocate I acknowledge that sometimes you need to threaten (or actually use) force to make the government change it's behavior. But those two things are not the same action, and I am really trying to put some sanity back in my language. Protester=/=revolutionary =/= rioter. All three can be in the same crowd, but an individual can't be more than one at a time.
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(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/x383/WLJohnson1/killcops.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
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:facepalm: If bridgewriters ever managed to learn real history they might find out how many millions were killed by socialism/communism. :mad:
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That wasn't real socialism/communism.
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That wasn't real socialism/communism.
Exactly. The wrong people were in charge.
This time will be different. The right people will be in charge.
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You also hear many of them say "socialism has never been tried"
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Meanwhile at 2nd and Broadway
Video at link
https://www.facebook.com/LMPD.ky/videos/345242990159650 (https://www.facebook.com/LMPD.ky/videos/345242990159650)
Louisville Metro Police Department
31m ·
Just before 8 p.m., protestors from Jefferson Square began marching down 6th Street toward Broadway. While at the intersection, they blocked traffic, including several TARC buses, in both directions for several minutes. The group then proceeded down Broadway to the intersection at 2nd Street. While in the intersection, a confrontation took place between a motorist and several protestors. Soon after, a 911 call came in from the motorist describing an assault. Protestors continued to march and LMPD officers responded. Four people were arrested, including one who is charged assault from the confrontation. A short time later, a fifth arrest was made of a person who was described as pointing a weapon at the victim of the assault. #LMPD