Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: just Warren on October 10, 2020, 09:29:29 PM
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This time in Denver. (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/10/breaking-shooting-denver-protests-patriots-vs-antifa-blm-mob-two-suspects-custody/)
I feel we are at a tipping point here.
I've been cautioning against using violence for years here and in other fora but if antifa/BLM keeps this up there will be no stopping the reprisal purge.
And after that is there any way to keep the country together?
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The going to street rallies mess just plays to what the other side wants. Kenosha, Trumpies in Portland, never happen. Why show up if the rules of engagement are stand there and bleed or become an international media pariah. If we were past the tipping point you don't waste time with street soldiers.
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Apparently the homicide victim had pepper sprayed the shooter. Being Denver, I wonder if the antifa shooter will actually be prosecuted? A self-defense plea might work in this case given the current favor shown toward rioters in liberal cities.
Edited with new information: Fox News is calling the shooter a "private security guard" with no affiliation to antifa.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/one-person-killed-protests-denver (https://www.foxnews.com/us/one-person-killed-protests-denver)
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Update:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/10/update-patriot-denver-reportedly-defending-bear-spray-two-men-shot-face-killed/
The dead man was defending himself with his spray and was shot by a private security guard supposedly not affiliated with antifa.
We'll probably find out that he is antifa/BLM to some extent. But even if we don't this murder still goes on antifa.
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It will be interesting to see, if the shooter gets bailed out, where the bail money comes from.
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Update:
The shooter is said to have been the bodyguard of a local TV news reporter.
Why the Hell did he shoot then? (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/10/breaking-denver-trump-supporter-shot-local-news-reporters-bodyguard/)
Was anyone attacking the reporter?
Antifa was celebrating in the streets and throwing soup cans at the police so yes they are terrorists and yes they are responsible for this murder as it's their actions that set the whole chain of events off.
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The going to street rallies mess just plays to what the other side wants. Kenosha, Trumpies in Portland, never happen. Why show up if the rules of engagement are stand there and bleed or become an international media pariah. If we were past the tipping point you don't waste time with street soldiers.
Nailed it.
This is political violence which has the approval and support of local politicians.
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https://twitter.com/rustyyyyy69/status/1315077057286533120
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Was it the Black Guns Matter guy that died? If so he was definitely itching for a fight. Just seemed he wanted to rumble, not get in a gun fight. Still, not the brightest move.
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Was it the Black Guns Matter guy that died? If so he was definitely itching for a fight. Just seemed he wanted to rumble, not get in a gun fight. Still, not the brightest move.
No, it was the guy in the sleeveless shirt and boonie hat.
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Looks like the shooter IS a lefty. (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/10/revealed-denver-shooter-patriot-protester-matthew-robert-dolloff-long-history-leftist-activism-media-says-security-guard-video/)
That makes him antifa adjacent at the very least.
The headline of the article says "long history" but all they show is membership in a group. We'll have to wait for more of his bio to see how deeply he is involved in lefty causes.
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Was it the Black Guns Matter guy that died? If so he was definitely itching for a fight. Just seemed he wanted to rumble, not get in a gun fight. Still, not the brightest move.
I've seen a couple of tweets where folks think they've seen the BGM guy in pictures and videos of riots in different states. The supposition is that he is a professional agitator for BLM/Antifa.
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I missed that there was a video at the bottom of the update.
Turns out the shooter does have a long history of leftist activism as he was at the Occupy protests back in 2012.
He also "stands" with BLM.
So yeah, lefty terrorist.
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I did armed security for quite some time, plenty of armed guards are idiot leftwingers.
I made some bad decisions when I did security, thank God no serious repercussions.
Pinkerton will throw this guy under the bus, guards don't get paid admin leave.
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Tim Pool is saying the killer isn't antifa, and there's a difference between BLM and antifa. (https://youtu.be/i6FtvzED4Ms)
But is there really?
The guy is definitely a Trump hater though.
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the shooter was not in uniform! not sure about CO law, but in CA that would be totally illegal.
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shooting partially caught on tape
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSpchpAN82A
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PT News digs a bit into what happened
https://youtu.be/cgxdsaKuq9I?t=281
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shooting partially caught on tape
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSpchpAN82A
That video is 4 hours of ranting, angry men. Got a better video? Or a time hack?
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https://newspunch.com/busted-denver-shooter-matthew-dolloffs-left-wing-facebook-posts/
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That video is 4 hours of ranting, angry men. Got a better video? Or a time hack?
2:20 to 2:40
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If Trump supporters were the deranged, violent, murderous thugs the left makes them out to be there should be quite a few less of the far left lunatics.
[ar15] :rofl:
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Shooter's name cannot be found in security guard database. (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/10/weird-reports-killer-trump-supporter-denver-security-guard-not-registered-colorados-security-guard-database/)
Maybe different search terms or maybe there's another database he might be in.
If not then what is a news organization doing hiring an unlicensed person to provide security for them?
Who's idea was this?
The news station has said they've been hiring bodyguards for awhile now. Were the other people they hired also unlicensed?
They also admitted that the shooter was a contractor for them. I imagine that they have left themselves open to a massive lawsuit at the very least and maybe even criminal charges. Though I'll need a lawyer to pop in with their thoughts on the latter.
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Two bets here.
1. He will make bail Monday.
2. The local DA will not prosecute.
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Reading the stories about this indicates to me they are trying to figure out how to spin it still.
There is very little good information and a lot of obfuscation.
The story will get memory holed soon.
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Apparently there is no record of a security guard license for him. I'm not sure how an outfit like Pinkerton hires an unlicensed person. Unless the TV station is lying about where they got him.
I have to add a likely unpopular opinion. Based only on info I currently have, if someone physically struck me, I would consider that an attack and would be prepared to both draw and use my gun.
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Based only on info I currently have, if someone physically struck me, I would consider that an attack and would be prepared to both draw and use my gun.
Bad idea. You'll lose that court battle.
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Apparently there is no record of a security guard license for him. I'm not sure how an outfit like Pinkerton hires an unlicensed person. Unless the TV station is lying about where they got him.
Partial excerpt from this morning's update
"The station reported that it later found out that it appears that Dolloff was not actually employed by the company it used and the company did not provide additional information about his actual employer."
https://www.foxnews.com/us/suspect-in-denver-shooting-not-a-licensed-security-guard-report
Shady subcontractor, maybe? Or possibly the person in charge of station security (or maybe accounting) decided Pinkerton was too expensive and went with a "friend of a friend" reference instead?
Also, referencing Gunsmith's prior comment ... he wasn't in any type of uniform or outfitted state indicating security status. I'm inferring from that he was there of his own accord even though the news seems hung up on the "station security" angle.
Brad
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Bad idea. You'll lose that court battle.
I should have said, "draw and potentially use my gun". If I could get away or otherwise deescalate, I would, but if someone is physically attacking me and continues to do so, if I'm backed into a corner, it seems that's what a gun is for.
Again, perhaps I need more info, but from what I see, there is some blame on the victim's part if he did indeed initiate the physical part of the altercation.
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To the surprise of nobody, shooter has an arrest record, has been part of "Occupy" since at least 2011.he also has a space invaders tatoo the same as an antifa logo:
https://hardnoxandfriends.com/2020/10/11/another-murderous-leftist-busted-thanks-to-his-space-invader-against-racism-tattoos/
https://www.nationalistreview.net/2020/10/11/hes-one-of-us-nbc-9news-reporter-kyle-clark-supports-antifa-a-9news-bodyguard-just-killed-a-trump-supporter/
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Ok, I cannot easily watch videos- has anyone figured out what the motive of the shooting was?
Who attacked who first and why? ???
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Ok, I cannot easily watch videos- has anyone figured out what the motive of the shooting was?
Who attacked who first and why? ???
From the videos I've seen there was a mouthy guy picking a fight with a handful of Trump supporters including the now deceased. The video follows the mouthy guy but the deceased walks out of frame and a moment later you hear the bear spray deploy and one gunshot.
I've seen still photos of a possible slap from Trump supporter against "Security Guard" and a photo of him spraying the guard who has his pistol out.
No clue what escalated the situation so quickly.
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From the videos I've seen there was a mouthy guy picking a fight with a handful of Trump supporters including the now deceased. The video follows the mouthy guy but the deceased walks out of frame and a moment later you hear the bear spray deploy and one gunshot.
I've seen still photos of a possible slap from Trump supporter against "Security Guard" and a photo of him spraying the guard who has his pistol out.
No clue what escalated the situation so quickly.
Based on this photo (https://i1.wp.com/hardnoxandfriends.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/booking-3.jpg?w=800&ssl=1) and in the video Angel Eyes posted (0:43), boonie hat guy was standing pretty still, and they are too far apart for physical contact.
I suspect shooter had the gun out already, as you can hear the pepper spray for about a quarter second before the gunshot.
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Based on this photo (https://i1.wp.com/hardnoxandfriends.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/booking-3.jpg?w=800&ssl=1) and in the video Angel Eyes posted (0:43), boonie hat guy was standing pretty still, and they are too far apart for physical contact.
I suspect shooter had the gun out already, as you can hear the pepper spray for about a quarter second before the gunshot.
But then there is this:
(https://i.imgur.com/FwMbWUj.png)
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I should have said, "draw and potentially use my gun". If I could get away or otherwise deescalate, I would, but if someone is physically attacking me and continues to do so, if I'm backed into a corner, it seems that's what a gun is for.
Again, perhaps I need more info, but from what I see, there is some blame on the victim's part if he did indeed initiate the physical part of the altercation.
From the two photos I have seen of the slap (one of which appears immediately above), it appears that the shooter was attacking the victim, probably trying -- by force -- to take away the victim's can of bear spray. The slap appears to be a defensive reaction to an aggression. Eyewitnesses have stated that the victim was trying to use the bear spray to defend himself against an attack by the shooter when the [alleged] security agent drew and fired.
What we don't see (or haven't yet seen) is why the shooter decided it was necessary to take away the bear spray. The victim had walked away from the mouthy BLM (BGM) guy only a moment beiore and he wasn't in a position to be a threat to the television "producer" the shooter as purportedly there to protect so, if the shooter made a grab for the spray, in my opinion that would constitute an unprovoked assault and the victim was fully justified in slapping the shooter to defend himself.
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Hadn't seen that one. So boonie hat guy did slap the shooter. Was shooter reaching for something? Looks like shooters hand may be under boonie hat guy's vest. I don't know.
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WLJ posted this link earlier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgxdsaKuq9I&feature=youtu.be&t=281
Fast forward to about the 17:30 mark, then follow the narrative. While it's not crystal clear that the "security guard" initiated the conflict with the victim, the circumstantial evidence of the images supports this. What is clear is that, after slapping the [alleged] security guard, the victim was backing away (attempting to deescalate) while the shooter was advancing. The media are reporting it to make it appear that the shooter used his gun after having been pepper sprayed. The photo sequence makes it pretty clear (at least to me) that the shooter went for his gun as a response to having been slapped, and that the victim was using the bear spray to defend against an assailant who had drawn a gun.
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https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2020/10/12/lawyer-up-denver-news-station-that-hired-shady-security-guard-who-killed-trump-supporter-at-protest-could-be-in-a-world-of-trouble/
Matthew Dolloff, 30, was contracted through the company Pinkerton by 9NEWS. It has been the practice of 9NEWS for a number of months to contract private security to accompany staff at protests.
Pinkerton, however, said it does not actually employ Dolloff – Pinkerton did not share the name of the company for which Dolloff worked.
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According to Eric Escudero, marketing and communications manager for the city’s Department of Excise and Licenses, “there is no record” that Dolloff had a license required by the city to work as a security guard – and no evidence he’d had one in the past.
9NEWS could be on the wrong end of a lawsuit by the victim's family.
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The more I think about this the more I think the two were playing tag team after watching far too many live feeds where the the "antifa" side was trying to provoke a reaction from the "patriot" side.
Unarmed guy #1 starts by trying to provoke a reaction
Armed guy #2 stands backs waiting for the reaction so that he can be the "hero" of the movement defending an unarmed "peaceful" protester. The way he hovered in the background and NOT guarding the reporter makes me think he was waiting for his moment.
Wouldn't shock me one bit if the reporter or even the station was in on it or even planned it in order to film it thus the "he was our security" story.
Things just didn't go exactly as planned when patriot side didn't react the way they wanted them to so guy #2 tried to force the matter.
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From the two photos I have seen of the slap (one of which appears immediately above), it appears that the shooter was attacking the victim, probably trying -- by force -- to take away the victim's can of bear spray. The slap appears to be a defensive reaction to an aggression. Eyewitnesses have stated that the victim was trying to use the bear spray to defend himself against an attack by the shooter when the [alleged] security agent drew and fired.
What we don't see (or haven't yet seen) is why the shooter decided it was necessary to take away the bear spray. The victim had walked away from the mouthy BLM (BGM) guy only a moment beiore and he wasn't in a position to be a threat to the television "producer" the shooter as purportedly there to protect so, if the shooter made a grab for the spray, in my opinion that would constitute an unprovoked assault and the victim was fully justified in slapping the shooter to defend himself.
If the victim was defending himself against initial physical aggression from the shooter, that would certainly change my perspective. A full video would sure be nice, but it doesn't look like one exists. Probably thanks to the mouthy jackass, as everyone was focusing their phone cams on him in hopes of some action.
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Edited because of the derps
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Well, if you want to know which way the station that hired the guy leans (or at least their "reporters"), here ya go:
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2020/10/12/lawyer-up-denver-news-station-that-hired-shady-security-guard-who-killed-trump-supporter-at-protest-could-be-in-a-world-of-trouble/
Kyle Clark
@KyleClark
Shame to think there are people cowering in the suburbs, cleaning their guns, peeking through the blinds wondering if every person of color outside is Antifa. If you’re afraid to come into Denver because of talk radio fear-mongering, you’re missing out on a lot. https://twitter.com/KimMcCrea1/sta
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One thing I just noticed is that shooter has RDS and light on his gun.
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It appears someone put together a gif of sequential still images of the incident. It's moving too fast for me to really see what is what.
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2020/10/12/flip-book-of-images-from-denver-shooting-at-patriot-rally-shows-the-incident-as-it-unraveled/
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It looks like two idiots pawing at each other, and then one decides to shoot and the other one decides to deploy pepper spray simultaneously.
With predicable results.
Is that about right? ???
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It looks like two idiots pawing at each other, and then one decides to shoot and the other one decides to deploy pepper spray simultaneously.
With predicable results.
Is that about right? ???
Sounds about right. I wish the string of images in the gif started a few seconds earlier so we could see (maybe) if the shooter initiated the slap. My guess is that he did ... but that's a guess.
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If the tables were turned and the lefty was dead we would most likely all be saying "bad shoot", he's going to get to live in jail for a good chunk of his life.
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If the tables were turned and the lefty was dead we would most likely all be saying "bad shoot", he's going to get to live in jail for a good chunk of his life.
As it is, we're probably mostly saying "Bad shoot, he's going to walk."
I hope that's wrong, but I won't hold my breath.
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I still haven't seen enough clear evidence to make a decision on the shooting itself. One thing, however, stands out not in favor of the "security guard". If your job is to protect a news crew, that means 100% of your time is spent scanning the area and keeping your mouth shut, remaining undistracted. What does appear to be in evidence is that this "security guard" decided to get into a political argument with a protestor instead of doing his job.
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Unpopular opinion:
Several people on here have said, and I haven't unilaterally disagreed with, variations on the theme of "If I get pepper-sprayed and/or maced I assume they are trying to take my gun and use it" or "If that cop get's hit with his own mace he's justified in shooting because the criminal could take his gun".
If (IF mind you, I've not seen definitive video) dead guy deployed bear spray on the shooter and his group first, a reasonable case could be made that dead guy started an incapacitation attack and the shooter was afeared for his personal safety. That's the tack I would take if I was his lawyer, anyway.
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Interesting twitter thread on this: https://twitter.com/COsweda/status/1315496256580448256
Despite my previous post I tend to agree that this was not a justified shooting, I think it's always worth while to make sure we are applying our standards evenly to others as well as ourselves.
The thread I linked above is the first I had seen that mentioned the victim ALSO had a pistol. You can clearly see it in a shoulder rig in the picture cordex posted. I tend to agree with the guy on that thread, that the shooter went for the victim's pistol, got pushed back, the victim went less lethal and the shooter went lethal. Dead guy probably should have went for his gun instead of bear spray.
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I tend to agree with the guy on that thread, that the shooter went for the victim's pistol, got pushed back, the victim went less lethal and the shooter went lethal. Dead guy probably should have went for his gun instead of bear spray.
That's an interesting theory. I wonder if the "security guard" thought he had the training to do that? Maybe he saw videos of that news security guard in Portland (who DID have the training) who took the ARs from the commies, and figured, "I can do that".
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Unpopular opinion:
Several people on here have said, and I haven't unilaterally disagreed with, variations on the theme of "If I get pepper-sprayed and/or maced I assume they are trying to take my gun and use it" or "If that cop get's hit with his own mace he's justified in shooting because the criminal could take his gun".
If (IF mind you, I've not seen definitive video) dead guy deployed bear spray on the shooter and his group first, a reasonable case could be made that dead guy started an incapacitation attack and the shooter was afeared for his personal safety. That's the tack I would take if I was his lawyer, anyway.
While I agree with you in normal circumstances since the shooter is allied with the “Beaning someone with a skateboard or a bike lock isn’t assault and burning down homes and businesses is peaceful protesting” movement I don’t care about any claim he has to self defense.
The shooter is a member of the enemy, the left treats us all as sworn enemies especially in just about any self defense case. Time to start treating them like they treat us.
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While I understand the whole counter protest concept, I'm just not that interested in raising the odds of my being involved in gun play.
The protests often turn violent and descend into riots.
I'm not looking to be a hero, count me out on participating in the public theatrics.
I don't want to shoot anyone. If it comes to that I plan on really meaning it and being in the right.
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I agree with Ron. Anyone who attends one of these "protests" is crazy.
The advice I heard seems apt:
Avoid Stupid People in Stupid Places Doing Stupid Things
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I still haven't seen enough clear evidence to make a decision on the shooting itself. One thing, however, stands out not in favor of the "security guard". If your job is to protect a news crew, that means 100% of your time is spent scanning the area and keeping your mouth shut, remaining undistracted. What does appear to be in evidence is that this "security guard" decided to get into a political argument with a protestor instead of doing his job.
Where did you see any indication of that?
The shot was only a couple/few seconds after the victim had walked away from the loudmouth who was featured in the video most of us have seen. There really wasn't time for much of a verbal exchange between the victim and the shooter. Extrapolating from what little we have seen, my guess was that the shooter made a grab for the victim's pepper spray, the victim rebuffed the grab by slapping the shooter, to which the shooter responded by opening fire.
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The thread I linked above is the first I had seen that mentioned the victim ALSO had a pistol. You can clearly see it in a shoulder rig in the picture cordex posted. I tend to agree with the guy on that thread, that the shooter went for the victim's pistol, got pushed back, the victim went less lethal and the shooter went lethal. Dead guy probably should have went for his gun instead of bear spray.
You have better eyes than I do -- I don't see a gun. But I did see some reports that two firearms were recovered, so I'll accept that the victim had a gun. However, he was apparently right-handed and he was carrying the pepper spray in his right hand. When confronted by the shooter, the victim went to the pepper spreay rather than for his gun, so he was clearly trying to deescalate and break off when he was shot.
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You have better eyes than I do -- I don't see a gun. But I did see some reports that two firearms were recovered, so I'll accept that the victim had a gun. However, he was apparently right-handed and he was carrying the pepper spray in his right hand. When confronted by the shooter, the victim went to the pepper spreay rather than for his gun, so he was clearly trying to deescalate and break off when he was shot.
Go here: https://twitter.com/COsweda/status/1315502498371694592/photo/2 (https://twitter.com/COsweda/status/1315502498371694592/photo/2)
After you see it, it's pretty obvious in the pic cordex posted.
There was a pretty nice closeup of the gun being recovered from the victim by Law enforcement, but that tweet has been removed. Plack polymer framed auto with a stainless slide and thumb safety. Safety still on.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkGagQtVkAA0PiM?format=jpg)
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AAR note, notwithstanding legalities: If you carry a concealed weapon for self defense, don't make a habit of carrying other *expletive deleted*it in your shooting hand.
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While I understand the whole counter protest concept, I'm just not that interested in raising the odds of my being involved in gun play.
The protests often turn violent and descend into riots.
I'm not looking to be a hero, count me out on participating in the public theatrics.
I don't want to shoot anyone. If it comes to that I plan on really meaning it and being in the right.
Yup. You can shout all the slogans you want, get into all the fights with the cops you want, that's on you.
You come into my neighborhood and try lighting my house on fire? Well, things might just go a little differently than planned....
Other than that, yeah, it's not worth it to "counter protest" these idiots. They're beneath our contempt and should only be acknowledged as such.
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You come into my neighborhood and try lighting my house on fire? Well, things might just go a little differently than planned....
That's pretty much the attitude of my entire neighborhood.
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Yup. You can shout all the slogans you want, get into all the fights with the cops you want, that's on you.
You come into my neighborhood and try lighting my house on fire? Well, things might just go a little differently than planned....
Other than that, yeah, it's not worth it to "counter protest" these idiots. They're beneath our contempt and should only be acknowledged as such.
I agree with this and what Ron said. My only note would be that in this case, AFAIK, the victim was protesting (or more precisely at a pro-LE rally), not counter-protesting.
I would, in a sane world, just say that each side should let the other do their thing and not show up to counter-protest. However, "their thing" in the case of antifa and BLM has been destruction, so while I would discourage counter-protesting them, I would encourage defense of life and property if they come anywhere near you.
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Shooter's name cannot be found in security guard database. (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/10/weird-reports-killer-trump-supporter-denver-security-guard-not-registered-colorados-security-guard-database/)
They also admitted that the shooter was a contractor for them. I imagine that they have left themselves open to a massive lawsuit at the very least and maybe even criminal charges. Though I'll need a lawyer to pop in with their thoughts on the latter.
Looks they can be charged criminally. (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8832949/Denver-investigates-license-guard-arrested-shooting.html)
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Vote Harder.
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Was there ever an answer as to why this "security guard" was interacting with the victim at all?
Someone mentioned he might have been trying to disarm him. That sounds like something "guards" don't normally do.
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Was there ever an answer as to why this "security guard" was interacting with the victim at all?
Someone mentioned he might have been trying to disarm him. That sounds like something "guards" don't normally do.
I can't think of a legitimate legal situation for a private person to disarm another private person with a holstered and nonthreatening weapon. Obviously there's a self defense scuffle with a presented weapon as justifiable, but just a holstered one, it's awfully sketchy.
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Was there ever an answer as to why this "security guard" was interacting with the victim at all?
Someone mentioned he might have been trying to disarm him. That sounds like something "guards" don't normally do.
It could simply be that the faux security guard is just a dumb ass with a misguided notion that he could be a hero.
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It could simply be that the faux security guard is just a dumb ass with a misguided notion that he could be a hero.
I bet that is all there is to it.
Dammed shame for the dead guy.
Or it could be getting to be "tit for tat"
The right
got that guy awhile ago, NM I think, and of course the hero of Kenosha...
Now it's ""their""
turn?
I expect this not be the end of it
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This Thread Reader has some clear photos ... [popcorn]
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1315492573390147584.html
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Did someone say the victim was a legit patched 1%'r?
Antifa/BLM couldn't have chosen to piss off a better group IMHO.
[popcorn]
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https://www.9news.com/article/news/crime/unlicensed-security-guard-matthew-dolloff-shooting-probable-cause-statement-video/73-a5a0a0e9-11b1-4d7d-972d-7b2a25fd1173
This video shows a little more of the confrontation from the point of view right beside the shooter.
The deceased saw that there were people taking pictures, aggressively approached the photographer saying: "This is not the place for a camera. Get the cameras out of here or I'm going to f*** you up." The shooter stepped in to stop him and that takes it up to the point of the slap.
Not saying the dead guy deserved to be shot, but it does appear he was attempting to intimidate the journalists that the shooter was protecting.
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American politics is like the TV shows The Sopranos or The Shield.
There are no good guys, just competing bad guys.
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https://www.9news.com/article/news/crime/unlicensed-security-guard-matthew-dolloff-shooting-probable-cause-statement-video/73-a5a0a0e9-11b1-4d7d-972d-7b2a25fd1173
This video shows a little more of the confrontation from the point of view right beside the shooter.
The deceased saw that there were people taking pictures, aggressively approached the photographer saying: "This is not the place for a camera. Get the cameras out of here or I'm going to f*** you up." The shooter stepped in to stop him and that takes it up to the point of the slap.
Not saying the dead guy deserved to be shot, but it does appear he was attempting to intimidate the journalists that the shooter was protecting.
Some of this article appears to be ass covering on the part of 9News. Admittedly, I didn't watch any of the video as I've seen it enough times to be sickened by it.
The city DA asking for a 72 hour extension before making a decision to file charges against the shooter is suspicious to me, as well. It wouldn't surprise me if he gets off. It also makes me wonder if there was Soros money behind her election.
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Some of this article appears to be ass covering on the part of 9News. Admittedly, I didn't watch any of the video as I've seen it enough times to be sickened by it.
This one is different and worth watching just to get data from all sides. I can't be sure, but it appears the slide on the pistol is on its way back in that still image, which would indicate the pepper spray and shot went off at roughly the same time.
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Did someone say the victim was a legit patched 1%'r?
Antifa/BLM couldn't have chosen to piss off a better group IMHO.
[popcorn]
Viking said that, but he had the wrong name.
The victim was a biker -- his shirt said "Biker Lives Matter" -- but he wasn't the person Viking identified as a 1% biker gang member. It's possible that he was, but I don't think we know that.
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https://www.9news.com/article/news/crime/unlicensed-security-guard-matthew-dolloff-shooting-probable-cause-statement-video/73-a5a0a0e9-11b1-4d7d-972d-7b2a25fd1173
This video shows a little more of the confrontation from the point of view right beside the shooter.
The deceased saw that there were people taking pictures, aggressively approached the photographer saying: "This is not the place for a camera. Get the cameras out of here or I'm going to f*** you up." The shooter stepped in to stop him and that takes it up to the point of the slap.
Not saying the dead guy deserved to be shot, but it does appear he was attempting to intimidate the journalists that the shooter was protecting.
I just watched that video three times, and I don't think it shows any more than we already knew.
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This one is different and worth watching just to get data from all sides. I can't be sure, but it appears the slide on the pistol is on its way back in that still image, which would indicate the pepper spray and shot went off at roughly the same time.
I agree. The narrative is that Keltner "maced" the security guy, so the security guy shot him in self defense. I don't see it that way. It looks to me like Keltner deployed the pepper spray when he saw the security guy pulling a gun.
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I just watched that video three times, and I don't think it shows any more than we already knew.
You knew that the deceased was intimidating journalists? I must have missed that reference previously.
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You knew that the deceased was intimidating journalists? I must have missed that reference previously.
Yeah, that could be somewhat damning to the victim without necessarily taking the security guard off the hook. If the victim was intimidating the news person, which this video seems to indicate, then interceding would be exactly what a security guard would have been hired to do. It will come down to level of force used to intercede.
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Yeah, that could be somewhat damning to the victim without necessarily taking the security guard off the hook. If the victim was intimidating the news person, which this video seems to indicate, then interceding would be exactly what a security guard would have been hired to do. It will come down to level of force used to intercede.
I don't disagree at all.
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It seems to me the antifa-provided "security" was actually intervening to protect his charge.
It then seems to me that he fired REALLY QUICKLY afterward, in the absence of any lethal threat.
That's murder. Not murder 1, but murder. Also indicative of a lack of security training, but clearly had firearms training and was eager and happy to use that.
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It seems to me the antifa-provided "security" was actually intervening to protect his charge.
It then seems to me that he fired REALLY QUICKLY afterward, in the absence of any lethal threat.
That's murder. Not murder 1, but murder. Also indicative of a lack of security training, but clearly had firearms training and was eager and happy to use that.
That is my thought. Just because the guy was "intimidating" a journalist doesn't mean he can shoot him.
Look at the other side of that. There are numerous incidents of antifa and BLM activists physically attacking people and making very serious threats yet no one has suggested gunning them all down to be a good response.
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That is my thought. Just because the guy was "intimidating" a journalist doesn't mean he can shoot him.
Look at the other side of that. There are numerous incidents of antifa and BLM activists physically attacking people and making very serious threats yet no one has suggested gunning them all down to be a good response.
I will say that the antifa-gaurd may have been justified if he was facing an angry mob and getting threatened with pepper-spray.
That would be a disabling attack in the face of overwhelming disparity of force. A random citizen getting pepper-sprayed by a violent mob would likely have a valid self-defense claim. Even just assaulted by an angry mob could provide a valid fear for your life.
Getting pepper sprayed by a guy who slapped you with an open hand is not a valid self-defense situation.
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Look at the other side of that. There are numerous incidents of antifa and BLM activists physically attacking people and making very serious threats yet no one has suggested gunning them all down to be a good response.
You know, I bet it wouldn't be too hard to find posts on APS suggesting just that. It's easy to get defensive about the death of someone ostensibly on "our team" when they are killed by "one of them", and be a little more understanding when it is someone on "our team" who pulls the trigger.
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You know, I bet it wouldn't be too hard to find posts on APS suggesting just that. It's easy to get defensive about the death of someone ostensibly on "our team" when they are killed by "one of them", and be a little more understanding when it is someone on "our team" who pulls the trigger.
While I would likely feel some antifa-punk deserved it, the same circumstances would have had me reluctantly stating this looks like a bad shoot.
The outcome would be the same, just how easy it is to admit it would have changed.
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You knew that the deceased was intimidating journalists? I must have missed that reference previously.
No, I didn't know that. And I didn't see that in the new video, so I still don't know it. I saw some subtitles, but I didn't hear the words spoken in the soundtrack.
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Looks like the news station is throwing their guy under the bus. They are saying they specifically requested an unarmed guard.
In another development, 9News said it requested an unarmed security guard for the rally.
“9News contracted with Pinkerton and had directed that security guards accompanying our personnel not be armed,” the station said in a statement. “None of 9News’ crew accompanied by Mr. Dolloff on Saturday were aware that he was armed.”
https://www.theepochtimes.com/denver-rally-shooter-fired-as-victim-sprayed-mace-affidavit_3540244.html
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Looks like the news station is throwing their guy under the bus. They are saying they specifically requested an unarmed guard.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/denver-rally-shooter-fired-as-victim-sprayed-mace-affidavit_3540244.html
Reading the story requires entering an email address. Nope.
Attorneys, both the station's and the station's liability insurance company's, are probably sweating bullets and this is the only thing they can legitimately do in terms of distancing. It's been established the guy was in their employ (as a third-party subcontractor, but still...) so they can't spin it there. About the only thing left is to find something, anything, that will shift some part of the blame to the primary contractor for not meeting requested specs. The TV station is likely part of a much larger nationwide conglomerate and Pinkerton is an international presence. Both have deep pockets and probably aren't liking the laser-intensity spotlight on them right now. They're probably talking some serious settlement numbers to keep it out of court.
The third-party security firm Pinkerton contracted to supply the guy? Unknown. I'm guessing some local one- or two-horse operation that essentially hired anyone who could fog a mirror. They've probably already evaporated. At the very least they've probably faded into something that exists only on paper. Heck, they may have been that way from the start. They might get the principal on something procedural like background checks or failure to validate/certify training and licensing requirements. At best they might find something criminally negligent like forging paperwork, but even that will probably end up being plead to nothing more egregious than a fine and loss of security license.
Brad
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To your point Brad, the third party security contractor may have just been the shooter.
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Charged with 2nd degree murder
Unlicensed security guard Matthew Dolloff will be charged with murder in the 2nd degree
https://kdvr.com/news/local/unlicensed-security-guard-matthew-dolloff-charged-with-murder-in-the-2nd-degree/
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Charged with 2nd degree murder
Unlicensed security guard Matthew Dolloff will be charged with murder in the 2nd degree
https://kdvr.com/news/local/unlicensed-security-guard-matthew-dolloff-charged-with-murder-in-the-2nd-degree/
That's good news. I'm glad that my speculation about him getting a pass from the DA was wrong.
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That's good news. I'm glad that my speculation about him getting a pass from the DA was wrong.
Second that.
Brad
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Charged with 2nd degree murder
Unlicensed security guard Matthew Dolloff will be charged with murder in the 2nd degree
https://kdvr.com/news/local/unlicensed-security-guard-matthew-dolloff-charged-with-murder-in-the-2nd-degree/
Good.
2nd degree is probably appropriate. Unless they find evidence the guy took the job specifically hoping to kill a Trump supporter.
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Looks like Matthew Dolloff's trial is scheduled to start on April 12.
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Looks like Matthew Dolloff's trial is scheduled to start on April 12.
Aaaaaand ... murder charge dismissed.
https://www.denverpost.com/2022/03/10/matthew-dolloff-charges-dropped/?utm_source=ground.news&utm_medium=referral
A spokeswoman for the Denver District Attorney’s Office on Thursday confirmed that prosecutors plan to dismiss the murder charge because they cannot overcome Dolloff’s statement that he acted in self-defense. Dolloff had not been charged with anything else in connection with the fatal shooting.
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Is this the one who shot the guy with pepper spray?
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Is this the one who shot the guy with pepper spray?
Yep.
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So riot and loot time?
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So riot and loot time?
I gotta work, and do some yard maintenance after last nights storms. I can pencil some light looting and a fire or two in on Mar 27. Does that work for everyone?
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Criteria has changed. It is now perfectly fine, and applauded, to shoot a trespasser if you are scared that she might do dangerous things.
However, it is also horrible to point guns at trespassers without shooting them.
Puzzled...
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I gotta work, and do some yard maintenance after last nights storms. I can pencil some light looting and a fire or two in on Mar 27. Does that work for everyone?
Sure, that works for me. I can bring the spray paint and hot dogs to roast at the [what kind of stores do we burn down anyhow?] fire.
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Wrong thread.
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I gotta work, and do some yard maintenance after last nights storms. I can pencil some light looting and a fire or two in on Mar 27. Does that work for everyone?
Dude, I have to be up early Monday. I can probably do a couple fires in the mid-afternoon though.
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Sure, that works for me. I can bring the spray paint and hot dogs to roast at the [what kind of stores do we burn down anyhow?] fire.
Well I do need some new shoes
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I gotta work, and do some yard maintenance after last nights storms. I can pencil some light looting and a fire or two in on Mar 27. Does that work for everyone?
That's my sabbath. Can you squeeze something in on Saturday, the 26th? (Unless you're Jewish, of course.)
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Can we bring a bunch of 55 gallon drums and hit a gas station?
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There's a CVS pharmacy about 2 blocks from my house. But they keep next to nothing on the shelves...