Author Topic: Chavez tried....  (Read 3846 times)

doczinn

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Chavez tried....
« on: December 10, 2007, 09:17:41 PM »
http://www.newsweek.com/id/74230

Attempted Theft

Hugo Ch?vez tried to overturn the results of Venezuela's recent vote but was rebuffed by the military.
By Jorge Casta?eda | Newsweek Web Exclusive
Dec 7, 2007 | Updated: 4:23  p.m. ET Dec 7, 2007
 
Most of Latin America's leaders breathed a sigh of relief earlier this week, after Venezuelan voters rejected President Hugo Ch?vez's constitutional amendment referendum. In private they were undoubtedly relieved that Ch?vez lost, and in public they expressed delight that he accepted defeat and did not steal the election. But by midweek enough information had emerged to conclude that Ch?vez did, in fact, try to overturn the results. As reported in El Nacional, and confirmed to me by an intelligence source, the Venezuelan military high command virtually threatened him with a coup d'?tat if he insisted on doing so. Finally, after a late-night phone call from Ra?l Isa?as Baduel, a budding opposition leader and former Ch?vez comrade in arms, the president concededbut with one condition: he demanded his margin of defeat be reduced to a bare minimum in official tallies, so he could save face and appear as a magnanimous democrat in the eyes of the world. So after this purportedly narrow loss Ch?vez did not even request a recount, and nearly every Latin American colleague of Ch?vez's congratulated him for his "democratic" behavior. Why did these leaders not speak out? Surely they knew of Ch?vez's machinations, and with the exception of Nicaragua's Daniel Ortega, Ecuador's Rafael Correa, Bolivia's Evo Morales and, to a large extent, the Argentine Kirchner duo, none of the region's heads of state sympathizes with the Venezuelan revolutionary.

The reason for the silence: these leaders know Ch?vez can count on a fifth column in nearly every country in the region. Even while he denounces the policies of his opponents and throws vitriol in every direction, he also uses his nation's resources to befriend their constituencies. These acolytes are devoted to his ideals and, more important, to his funding. They are boisterous, or powerful, or both, and they can make life miserable for governments ranging from the emblematic left (Luiz In?cio Lula da Silva in Brazil) to the liberal right (Mexico's Felipe Calder?n or Colombia's Alvaro Uribe).

Over the years Ch?vez has picked fights, from north to south, with virtually every leader in the region. He called Calder?n caballerito, "tin soldier," early this year and questioned his electoral victory last year. He said this month he would have no relationship with Colombia while Uribe, "the liar," was president. He accused the Brazilian senate of being a "Bush lapdog" and heaped scorn on anything Spanish under the sun, including the king, the government, the opposition and the banks. He warned two weeks ago that if the right-of-center opposition won next spring's election in Spain he would nationalize every Spanish corporation in Venezuela. He has meddled incessantly in his neighbors' affairs. With varying degrees of proof, stridency and significance, he is said to have interfered in the domestic politics of Mexico in last year's election, in El Salvador by funding the left-wing FMLN, and in Nicaragua by financing public works for Managua's Sandinista mayor, which led to Ortega's victory in the presidential vote. In Peru he openly backed radical nationalist Ollanta Humala in 2006. In Argentina he funded the Kirchners and the so-called piqueteros, or street fighters. He has meddled as well in Ecuador, Brazil, Bolivia and, of course, Colombia, where his intervention led to a breakdown in the international mediation efforts to free a number of hostages.

His changing relationship with Chile illustrates just how shrewd Ch?vez can be. Michelle Bachelet once showed a mystifying affection for Ch?vez, given his constant tirades against her country's legislative branch, junior government coalition partners and foreign ministry. But relations cooled after he disrupted the annual Ibero-American Summit in Santiago a month ago by picking a fight with the Spanish heads of state and government. Then, after the summit, he attended a "hard left" rally at a "hard left" Chilean university known as ARCIS. Upon learning the school had lost its government funding, he whipped out his checkbook and donated a huge sum of money to the school. In view of the $250 million to $300 million Venezuela receives per day from nearly $90-a-barrel oil prices, this was just small change. But while Bachelet was not entirely pleased with this turn of events, she preferred to keep her peace, leaving it to the Spaniards to finally say enough was enough. At the summit King Juan Carlos asked Ch?vez to "shut up." Such an outburst was long in coming, but it was not going to spring from fellow Latin Americans.

This meddling is the reason nobody pushes back, and it is hardly surprising that regional leaders applauded his "democratic" performance last week. Ch?vez is willing to disregard any accepted norm of international conduct and diplomatic etiquette. But for a variety of reasons his colleagues are not. Is this a sustainable stance for Latin democracy? Probably not, in the long term. This time the region was spared the lacerating choice of condemning Ch?vez for electoral fraud and provoking his petro-finance outbursts and meddling, or countenancing a stolen election by looking the other way. But it may be the last time Latin America's leaders are afforded such an easy exit.

Jorge Casta?eda is Mexicos former foreign minister and Global Distinguished Professor at New York University.

? 2007 Newsweek, Inc.
D. R. ZINN

De Selby

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Re: Chavez tried....
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2007, 10:11:50 PM »
This is like an article by Bashar Asad condemning Saddam Hussein's "undemocratic policies".  Good ol' Jorge should work on explaining why there is no "sustainable latin american democracy" in Mexico, and how he can get his party to end the narco-state policies before he continues the spat between Mexico and Venezuela.

The article should be prefaced with a blurb like "Former member of the Communist Party Jorge Castaneda gives a critique of Chavez's foreign policy.  After serving the Mexicn Communist party, Mr. Castaneda was lured by a compensation package and the threat of irrelevance to serve the stunningly ineffective and unpopular Fox administration.  He now parades as a leftist/communist in Spanish, and a free-market/Washington consensus backer in English."

Here's a book excerpt (in spanish) where this guy explains how he went from communist Mexican militant, to communist supporter of the Sandinistas, to communist politician in Mexico, to supporter of Vicente Fox, and finally to opponent of Vicente Fox.  And this guy's comments pass for "expert analysis" of Latin American politics.
 http://www.ideasdelcambio.org/text.cfm?id=20040607074406665349
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Perd Hapley

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Re: Chavez tried....
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2007, 02:31:56 AM »
OK, ss, but do his facts check out? 
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roo_ster

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Re: Chavez tried....
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2007, 05:10:23 AM »
fistful, how gauche of you to pose such a question!
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roo_ster

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MechAg94

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Re: Chavez tried....
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2007, 05:24:14 AM »
The revelation that he wanted to steal the election and that it was decided not close is important information.  As well, I have heard Chavez has been cozying up to anti-govt people in Columbia which agrees with his commentary.  So yeah, do his facts check out? 
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K Frame

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Re: Chavez tried....
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2007, 08:11:08 AM »
OK, ss, but do his facts check out? 

I'd have to say that yes, all of the facts DO check out in the article.

Everything I've heard indicate so.
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De Selby

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Re: Chavez tried....
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2007, 01:15:05 PM »
Fistful and jfruser, of course that's the question to ask. 

Mike,

Which facts in particular check out? The only fact relevant to the election, that Chavez was pressured by the military, is most certainly not confirmed in other sources.

That he gives money to leftists is not only beyond dispute, it's not a revelation, nor does it have much to do with Castaneda's point here.  Not only is this not "against the norms of diplomacy in the region", it is part and parcel of how business is done-the US has given money to right-wing groups in sums Chavez can only imagine to be able to dole out.  And the reason other Latin American leaders don't push back isn't because they're afraid of his money; they're afraid of his very high poll numbers in their own countries.  In other words, Chavez gets the deals he does with other Latin American states because of democratic popularity, not because they are afraid of him.

The opinion offered in this opinion piece, apart from the facts, is the opinion of someone who has a solid track record of selling his sentiments to whichever cause he thinks will allow him to hold a cushy position in Mexico and now the USA.  So that is why I criticize its use (even though it is labelled an opinion piece) as a "factual account" of Chavez's foreign relations-instead of simply accepting the author's characterization of the known facts, and accepting at face value his claims to secret evidence that Chavez's military got involved, we should be highly skeptical that there is any value in this piece at all.

Continuing to allow the media to parade phonies and frauds as "experts" on a range of topics serves no one, and that's why I take issue with it, not because I care for Chavez's antics.  You don't need to love or hate Chavez to recognize the problem with an opinion piece on "Latin American democracy" written by someone like Castanedas.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

doczinn

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Re: Chavez tried....
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2007, 02:23:55 PM »
Quote
The only fact relevant to the election, that Chavez was pressured by the military
"Pressured" not to manipulate the results, you mean? And you don't find it relevant that he monkeyed with the election? Really?

Quote
So that is why I criticize its use (even though it is labelled an opinion piece) as a "factual account" of Chavez's foreign relations
It's not about his foreign relations, it's about TRYING TO MANIPULATE THE ELECTION.
D. R. ZINN

De Selby

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Re: Chavez tried....
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2007, 03:00:04 PM »
In the first place, there's absolutely no evidence that he "monkeyed with the election"-indeed, the fact that he lost in what was polled repeatedly to be a close race is evidence that he did not monkey with it.

The opinion piece is most certainly on his foreign relations-from the first sentence, it's about what other Latin American leaders are saying about the election results.  That's most of the material, Castanedas explaining why the rest of Latin America is happy to go along with Chavez's inter-american initiatives, despite the fact that according to him, they all hate Chavez.  The only "fact" he gives to support his claims on the Venezuela elections is secret evidence: "some people told me that Chavez's military pressured him, which is the only reason he didn't change the vote"

It's an opinion piece by a guy who sells his opinions, interpreting known facts in a way that that doesn't seem to fit them, and citing secret evidence to support the claim that Chavez planned to fool with this election.  That is good reporting...how?
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

grampster

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Re: Chavez tried....
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2007, 03:06:33 PM »
Jimah didn't see the need to be there to monitor the election, so it had to be a fair election.  rolleyes
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wooderson

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Re: Chavez tried....
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2007, 03:27:26 PM »
Shootinstudent is correct - there are no verifiable claims made in this opinion piece. "Chavez tried to rig the vote" - according to an anti-Chavez columnist, based on 'reporting' by an anti-Chavez paper and an unnamed 'intelligence source.'
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