Author Topic: Tancredo Announces New Strategy. Maybe Other Candidates Can Learn Something  (Read 18712 times)

The Rabbi

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071220/ap_on_el_pr/tancredo;_ylt=AhHKr5iy0q55Nk9WwJNhG7Cs0NUE

Immigration is a loser of an issue in this election.  Outside of right wing chat boards and talk radio I really don't see much support for the "ship 'em home" crowd.
Maybe one candidate will actually start talking some sense on this issue. You listening, Fred?
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Paddy

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It really doesn't make any difference what the Republican candidates do, or even who is nominated.  The next election is going to the Democrat. I won't be voting Republican again this year, and neither will millions like me.

The Rabbi

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It really doesn't make any difference what the Republican candidates do, or even who is nominated.  The next election is going to the Democrat. I won't be voting Republican again this year, and neither will millions like me.

Of course millions didnt vote Republican in the last election either.
It is still way too early to tell what will happen.  At this time last cycle Howard Dean looked unstoppable.
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mtnbkr

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Immigration is a loser of an issue in this election.  Outside of right wing chat boards and talk radio I really don't see much support for the "ship 'em home" crowd.

The Prince William County government is a chat board or talk radio? 

http://www.pwcgov.org/default.aspx?topic=030010000790004322

http://www.nbc4.com/politics/13656072/detail.html

Chris

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the prince william county government provided a sound bite  whats actually happpening vis a vis enforcement hasn't changed  other than ticking off a good number of folks and helping tank the housing market more there

mtnbkr

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The only damage it did to the housing market is there are fewer instances where you'll find 20 "relatives" busy converting a 2000sq ft townhouse into a 10 room boarding house while trashing the structure and the surrounding grounds.

Chris

longeyes

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Tancredo may be pulling out of the race, but the idea that illegal immigration is finished as an issue is laughable.  We haven't even begun to see the full dimensions of this problem.  Wait until the economy really starts faltering; wait until the middle-class sees its taxes begin to escalate to subsidize illegals.

Tancredo had the right ideas but not the right presence.
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The Rabbi

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No, it's a loser of an issue.  It is to conservatives what gun control is to liberals.  And the sooner the rest of the candidates get the idea that shipping em all back home isn't going to get them elected the better.
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Perd Hapley

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Immigration is a loser of an issue in this election.  Outside of right wing chat boards and talk radio I really don't see much support for the "ship 'em home" crowd.


And we all know that talk radio has a paltry audience of a few thousand people that don't even vote.  Wait...

 rolleyes
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Waitone

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Hey Moderator!

I got an idea.  Make a sticky "2008 Election Predictions".  Then in 2009 we can accurately see whose crystal ball is the cleanest.
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds. It will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
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The Rabbi

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Re: Tancredo Announces New Strategy. Maybe Other Candidates Can Learn Something
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2007, 03:08:05 AM »
Immigration is a loser of an issue in this election.  Outside of right wing chat boards and talk radio I really don't see much support for the "ship 'em home" crowd.


And we all know that talk radio has a paltry audience of a few thousand people that don't even vote.  Wait...

 rolleyes
That belongs i the category of "Everyone I know voted for Adlai Stevenson so why isn't he President?"
If talk radio were the big influence then Tancredo would be vying for first place, not a has-been also-ran.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Tancredo Announces New Strategy. Maybe Other Candidates Can Learn Something
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2007, 12:51:48 PM »
Uh, OK.  I was simply pointing out that "only talk radio and right-wing websites" represent a pretty large segment of American opinion. 


In any case, the idea that the border-enforcement position is limited to conservatives is - well, just wrong. 
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roo_ster

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Re: Tancredo Announces New Strategy. Maybe Other Candidates Can Learn Something
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2007, 01:31:50 PM »
fistful has it right: majorities of reps, dems, & others support border enforcement and enforcing our laws.

Thing is, it is not the only issue. 

Tancredo is partly responsible for elevating the issue's profile and for torpedoing the last few amnesty/open border *expletive deleted*ss-humpings of the American citizenry.

One bit of fallout of the events was the changes the leading Rep candidates made in their stance on immigration, illegal & otherwise.  Rudy, Fred, & Mitt (& Huck) were pretty squishy on illegals, but all have moved closer to Tancredo's position.  Politicians pay attention when a President who HAD majorities in both houses get his ass handed to him.
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roo_ster

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The Rabbi

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Re: Tancredo Announces New Strategy. Maybe Other Candidates Can Learn Something
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2007, 02:57:03 PM »
You guys are really missing the point.
If illegal immigration were really such a hot issue then Tancredo would still be in the race.  It isn't and he isn't.
The more the candidates blast off with this stuff, the more votes they'll lose.
In the general election they cannot win without the Hispanic vote, which counts heavily in places like Utah, New Mexico, etc.  And they are losing that vote heavily, as polls have shown.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Tancredo Announces New Strategy. Maybe Other Candidates Can Learn Something
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2007, 03:00:47 PM »
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/04/AR2007100402253.html

heres some of the non impact.
and according to the cops i know nothins changed on their end. except the latinos are afraid of em. there aren't any spikes in folks they are grabbing. sadly even if they grab em and call ice  ice won't come even on some serious charges that warrant action

Waitone

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Re: Tancredo Announces New Strategy. Maybe Other Candidates Can Learn Something
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2007, 03:02:05 PM »
The message and the messenger need to match.  Tancredo's message was necessary but not sufficient.  His package as a candidate left a lot to be desired.  He accomplished his goal of elevating the discussion.  Because of his efforts no candidate can skate on illegal immigration.

BTW, just heard speculation that he will run for Allard's seat in the senate.  Any confirmation out there?
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds. It will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
- Charles Mackay, Scottish journalist, circa 1841

"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it." - John Lennon

mtnbkr

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Re: Tancredo Announces New Strategy. Maybe Other Candidates Can Learn Something
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2007, 03:13:52 PM »
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/04/AR2007100402253.html

heres some of the non impact.
and according to the cops i know nothins changed on their end. except the latinos are afraid of em. there aren't any spikes in folks they are grabbing. sadly even if they grab em and call ice  ice won't come even on some serious charges that warrant action

Here's some of the positive impact:

Quote
Prince William would save on school expenditures and other costs if thousands of illegal immigrants leave.

"How many are going to leave naturally because of opportunities in the housing market drying up, and how many are leaving because of our policies?" Covington said in an interview. "If there is a significant number of departures, I think we'll be a more financially stable county."

It's a shame the feds won't even take action when illegals are handed to them on a silver platter. 

Chris

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Re: Tancredo Announces New Strategy. Maybe Other Candidates Can Learn Something
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2007, 03:48:52 PM »
The town of Riverside, N.J., tried to target illegal immigrants through several measures last year but reversed course last month under legal and economic pressure and voted to rescind the laws. When a sizable portion of the town's Latin American immigrants left, several businesses closed, and others took a big hit.

In Prince William, an early indicator of the impact of the anti-illegal immigrant policies is likely to be seen in the real estate sector, and the county is a gloomy place in a grim regional market. In two years, from August 2005 to August 2007, home sales fell 66 percent in Prince William, 52 percent in Loudoun County and 49 percent in Fairfax County. The number of properties on the market in Prince William more than doubled, from 2,753 to 6,515.

About 900 of the homes on the market in August were "properties in distress": bank-owned or sliding into foreclosure, said Michael T. Minnery, president of the Prince William Association of Realtors. That is a tenfold increase from 2005, he said.

Many distressed properties are in Zip codes with high concentrations of Latino residents. One county resident told supervisors at a board meeting this week that a house up for auction on her street didn't draw a single bidder, despite an opening price of $259,000. The house used to be worth $400,, she told the board.

Minnery said it is too soon to know whether Prince William's recently introduced anti-illegal immigrant measures are driving Hispanic residents away or discouraging potential buyers from moving to the county. The association does not have an official position on the policies, but Minnery said he thinks that "anything that puts limits on the housing market is bad."

"Everyone should be able to own a home in this country," he said. "Everyone has the right to home ownership, no matter if they are a U.S. citizen or not."


longeyes

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Re: Tancredo Announces New Strategy. Maybe Other Candidates Can Learn Something
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2007, 05:19:42 PM »
Tancredo was a first, mild-mannered, rational run at a problem which, since we're predicting, is going to rip this nation asunder in the next several years.  The Tancredos of the future are going to be a lot angrier and a lot more "extreme."  The reason is this: the true problem is that the American citizen-taxpayer-voter has been betrayed, ignored, sold out, shafted.  What just happened with The Fence illustrates this perfectly.  Sometimes the shock of betrayal takes a while to settle in, and the American people have long operated in good faith.  When they completely absorb, on an emotional level, the level of treachery visited upon them as well as the pragmatic consequences of this invasion from the South, you will see things in America that haven't been seen here in a long, long time. 

In California the Terminatrix has decided that we need massive new taxes, in the face of an already serious budget deficit, to provide "free" health care for--let's be blunt--mostly illegal aliens and their offspring.  I say this won't fly next November, when the voter has to okay the funding.  Will "the courts" step in somehow? 

Look, folks, this is about whether the tyranny of the elites is going to triumph.  At some point the American people are going to fully get their minds around that.  It will probably take the collapse of the financial system dashing the "American dream" to marshal the awakened.
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The Rabbi

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Re: Tancredo Announces New Strategy. Maybe Other Candidates Can Learn Something
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2007, 06:21:57 PM »
"Stabbed in the back"??
I am surprised you don't know any better than to post drivel like that.
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roo_ster

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Re: Tancredo Announces New Strategy. Maybe Other Candidates Can Learn Something
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2007, 12:53:27 AM »
You guys are really missing the point.
If illegal immigration were really such a hot issue then Tancredo would still be in the race.  It isn't and he isn't.
The more the candidates blast off with this stuff, the more votes they'll lose.
In the general election they cannot win without the Hispanic vote, which counts heavily in places like Utah, New Mexico, etc.  And they are losing that vote heavily, as polls have shown.
TR, it is you who is missing the reality trying to drive your point home.

Illegal immigration wasn't so great an issue as to be able to carry Tancredo and his perceived one-note campaign to the nomination.  But it is large enough to force all the candidates to address it substantively and for them to alter formerly squishy positions into better defined positions more in accord with Tancredo than Teddy Kennedy...or their former squishy stance.

Your insistence that a broadly popular policy position regarding border enforcement will be a loser does not pass the common sense or laugh tests.

What longeyes described is neither new no unique.  The last third of the following article addresses it pretty well:
http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=ZWIzYWI4NTBjYTc3NGE1OGEwYWMyZjE1NDZjOWVmMDQ=
Quote
    As the elites pull away from the rest of us, and the rest of us become more atomized and disorganized  a heap of loose sand in Sun Yat-sens memorable phrase about the late-Imperial Chinese  we may be headed for the kind of intractable elite-commoner hostility predicted by Michael Young in his 1958 book The Rise of the Meritocracy. I dont think it is fanciful to see an element of this in the current widespread anger towards the political class  the presidents approval ratings down in the 30s, and Congresss even lower.

Some of that is anger at particular policies  Iraq, the immigration bill. Much, though  a rising proportion, I believe  is systemic: a feeling that the elites are now running the show for their own interests, Latin-America-style, with not much regard for ours. As [one of my readers] correctly observed: The low paid politician has vanished. The surest route to wealth is politics, followed closely by government service.

Here is Paul Johnson in Modern Times:

    Like FDR, he [i.e. John F. Kennedy] turned Washington into a city of hope; that is to say, a place where middle-class intellectuals flocked for employment.

What I am seeking is an anti-JFK  a candidate who will transform our nations capital from a city of hope for middle-class intellectuals, into a city of despair for them. The despair of those intellectuals, I am increasingly convinced, is the hope of our nation. Looking at all but one of the Republican candidates (and, it goes without saying, all but none of the Democratic ones) I see nothing in prospect but a new draft of office-seeking intellectuals, primed and eager to bring us new expansions of federal power, new pointless wars, new million-strong reinforcements for the Reconquista, new thousand-page tax loopholes, new inducements for idleness and crime, new humiliations for the saps who follow rules and obey laws. Sadly and reluctantly at last, I include the S.O.B.* in that all but one.

* * * * *

From Kimberley Strassels piece in the Dec. 14 Opinion Journal:

    Paul rallies heave with voters waving placards and shouting Liberty! Liberty!

Are those supporters crazy, as some colleagues tell me?

Perhaps they are, to be shouting for liberty in 2007, after decades of swelling federal power and arrogance, of proliferating taxes, rules, and interests, of gushing transfers of wealth to politically connected elites from working- and middle-class grunts, of the college and teacher-union scams, of the metastasizing tort-law rackets, of ever more numerous yet ever more clueless intelligence agencies, of open borders and visas for people who hate us, of widening cracks in our sense of nationhood (Press one for English &), of speech codes and race lobbies and judicial impositions.


Regards,

roo_ster

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The Rabbi

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Re: Tancredo Announces New Strategy. Maybe Other Candidates Can Learn Something
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2007, 03:40:46 AM »
Quote
Illegal immigration wasn't so great an issue as to be able to carry Tancredo and his perceived one-note campaign to the nomination.  But it is large enough to force all the candidates to address it substantively and for them to alter formerly squishy positions into better defined positions more in accord with Tancredo than Teddy Kennedy

No, you still dont get it.
No candidate is going to be better at being Tancredo than Tancredo.  No candidate was more identified with the "send em all home and mine the border" mentality than Tancredo.
That position is a political loser.  If people pay attention to it at all, that isn't what they want, recognizing that identifying, detaining, and deporting 10 million people just isn't the easy road to riches it's been sold as.
If the position had resonance, then Tancredo would be a contender.  He isn't.  The marketplace of political ideas has rejected that product.  I dont care how many talk show jocks and right wing nutjobs on chat boards talk this up.  It is a loser.
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Scout26

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Re: Tancredo Announces New Strategy. Maybe Other Candidates Can Learn Something
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2007, 05:15:37 AM »
Rabbi,

I have to respectfully disagree.

Last night at my shooting club we had our candidates night.  We had 16 candidates from both parties.  3 US Senate Candidates, 10 US House Candidates from 4 districts.

Each candidate was given 3 minutes to give their "Stump" speech and then 2 minutes to take questions from the membership (roughly 150 out of 1200) showed-up. 

Three guess as to what the most ask question was Huh?

Nope, not the 2A issues etc. (remember this is a SHOOTING Club)

Nope, not Iraq (though the 2nd most asked topic tied with Taxes/Spending)

Yep, the most popular topic/question (and EVERY candidate was asked) was:  "What are you going to do about the illegal alien problem ??" 


Tancredo had several problems, one diminsional, no name recognition, virtually ignored (along with most of rest of the Republican candidates) by the main stream (all Hilliary and Obama, all the time) media. 

Illegal immigration is a hot issue, but Tancredo was unable create tne necessary "buzz" to get his (only) message out.   
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Manedwolf

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Re: Tancredo Announces New Strategy. Maybe Other Candidates Can Learn Something
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2007, 05:17:39 AM »
Tancredo just decided to back "keep your Mitt off our guns" Romney.

Bleagh. Idiot. I just lost all respect for him.

The Rabbi

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Re: Tancredo Announces New Strategy. Maybe Other Candidates Can Learn Something
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2007, 05:26:21 AM »
Scout,
Assuming that questions from members of a shooting club represent the opinions of even a large number of Americans is folly in the extreme.  Another example of "all my friends voted for Stevenson so why isn't he President?"

Ron Paul started with no name recognition, mostly 1 dimensional, and ignored by the mass media.  Come to think of it, he still is.
But whatever traction he has gotten comes from the resonance of his issues (big gov't is the problem, not the solution) with voters.
Fred Thompson should have been the candidate mouthing those sentiments on domestic policy and a muscular foreign policy.  He would have been the clear front runner.  Instead he's a muddle of govspeak.
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