The Lakota have declared independence.

[Joe Demko]

http://www.lakotafreedom.com/media.html

SUMMARY:

For far too long our people have suffered at the hands of the colonial apartheid system imposed on the Lakota Sioux. Our treaties with the United States government are nothing more than worthless words on worthless paper  repeatedly violated in order to steal our culture, our land and our ability to maintain our way of life.

The devastation this has wrought is clear:
Lakota men have a life expectancy of less than 44 years, lowest of any country in the World (excluding AIDS) including Haiti.
The Lakota infant mortality rate is 5x the U.S. Average.
The Tuberculosis rate on Lakota reservations is approx 800% higher than the U.S national average.
97% of our Lakota people live below the poverty line.
Unemployment rates on our reservations are approximately 85%.
Teenage suicide rate is 150% higher than the U.S national average for this group.
Our Lakota language is an Endangered Language, on the verge of extinction.

We have no choice but to take this historic action to protect our people and our way of life, and reclaim our freedom from the colonial systems of the United States Government. So we travel to Washington D.C. to withdraw from our treaties with the United States and announce full return of our sovereign status under Article 6 of the U.S. Constitution, International and Natural Law.

They have already sought recognition from Bolivia, Venezuela, Chile and South Africa. Their press conference was attended by Bolivian ambassador Gustavo Guzman as a show of solidarity. The Bolivian government is reviewing their diplomatic documents.

I wonder where this will go.

[Manedwolf]

I dunno, some other tribes have gotten back at the US pretty good through sheer economic willpower.

Witness the staggering success of the Connecticut tribal casinos, or how the Seminole tribe pays a stipend to every tribe member from ownership of the Hard Rock chain and its casino, and from selling cigarettes mostly to "the white man".

The Seminole neighborhoods on the reservation near Ft. Lauderdale are now mostly a collection of McMansions as a result of tribal profits.

And this...



...is what the Mohegan tribe did by using capitalism and leveraging their status as a tribe on a reservation. Not too shabby.

[Joe Demko]

What'll determine whether this goes anywhere, I guess, is whether the people who've made the declaration have any standing within the tribe to do so.  I confess to pretty much total ignorance about the internal affairs of the 500-some tribes in the US.  If they're just some guys with big dreams and a website, it'll obviously go nowhere.

[Werewolf]

Not a problem...

Just build a wall around their reservation and lock 'em all in. Wouldn't last long before their situation got even worse.

I suppose they could then declare war on the US but we'd just kick their stupid, hunter gatherer, freezin' in the winter, fryin' in the summer, wonderin' where their next meal is coming from, livin' in garbage, life expectancy of 33 years or so and 50% infant mortality rate asses again.

I have never got the whole reservation/sovereign nation thing re the INDIANS (not native Americans - if you were born here you're a native American). The Indians were flat out defeated in multiple wars. Lots of people wanted to just wipe 'em out but that was not to be. They're lucky they're still around to bitch and complain.

Eliminate reservations and force 'em to assimilate. In the long run thats what would be best for 'em.

[wooderson]

Lots of people wanted to just wipe 'em out but that was not to be. They're lucky they're still around to bitch and complain.

Wow. Someone should try telling, say, the JPFO this.

[Perd Hapley]

Werewolf is at it again.

http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=4934.0


I wish there were an easy answer for this situation.  Racial history blows.   

[AZRedhawk44]

Eliminate reservations and force 'em to assimilate. In the long run thats what would be best for 'em.

Or...

Eliminate guns and force 'em to learn to be more aware of their surroundings so they can avoid trouble.  In the long run thats what would be best for 'em.

Eliminate conservatism and force 'em to appreciate giving their money to the welfare system.  In the long run thats what would be best for the country.

Eliminate online forums and force 'em to appreciate the newspapers already in existence.  In the long run thats how they stay best informed of the issues of the day.

Werewolf, we gave them those reservations and the priviledge of leaving them whenever they want.  The rez is their land, much like your home is your land.  But hey, we can always say:

"Eliminate Werewolf's property rights to his current home and force him to move to a neighborhood with an HOA so he CAN'T keep spare cars and cattle on his land.  It's unsightly and we need the land for a new shopping mall on the edge of town, and it will be better for him in the long run anyway."

(Not to cast aspersions on Werewolf as a redneck with rusting cars in his pasture, or deride anyone with cars out back beside the barn... just a lifestyle that is generally scorned that makes a good example.)

[seeker_two]

OK.....let's give them Mexico....

[De Selby]

Why is it that they don't have any right to declare independence?

And why is this so offensive? 

This is their ancestral homeland, after all.  They have connections to the land that we could only dream of, and they were here first.  Their religion and culture are centered on this land.  So why not let them have it?

Or do those things not establish a claim?

[Perd Hapley]

Or do those things not establish a claim? 

Not especially.     Is it really the land they lived on prior to white settlement?  If so, who did they push out, so that they could live there?  If they have a right to an independent state, then we'll have to move the whole global population around.  Ain't nobody where their people started out, you know. 

[wooderson]

You may have leaned into that one, fistful, if shootinstudent is headed where I think he's headed...

[Ron]

They are a conquered people. Nothing we say or do will change that in the least. That is the history and they aren't getting any more land than what they got.

Let them have their independence from Uncle Sugar.

Good luck to them.

It won't make a difference on the reservation except maybe make things worse.

[Perd Hapley]

You may have leaned into that one, fistful, if shootinstudent is headed where I think he's headed...

Where might he be headed, pray? 

[Finch]

Where might he be headed, pray? 

My guess is GITMO, along with the rest of the Lakota nation.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Civilization has passed them by.  They can whine and complain.  They can compare their sorry lot against the superior lifestyle offered by the civilization they decry.  Or they can modernize and join civilization.  They can assimilate and enjoy all the benefits of modern America just like the rest of us do.  It's their choice.

Declarations of independence are amusing, but not much else.  Their status as Indian Nation, complete with their own reservation, makes 'em just about as independent as they could possibly be.  Methinks their real goal is actually dependence, the sort that comes from suckling at the public teat.

[Manedwolf]

As I mentioned, other tribes have leveraged their unique legal status with American capitalism to provide nearly unlimited funds for their people. Multi-billion-dollar luxury resort casinos with top-of-the-list concerts and comedians, and thousands of "white men" dumping money in the slots every minute, money that goes to the tribe. 

The big ones in Connecticut even have multimillion dollar museums that preserve the tribal history, artifacts, and heritage, and educate visitors about them.

What's stopping the Lakota?

[Perd Hapley]

If one bunch of Injuns can do it, then surely all the others can!   

[Manedwolf]

I'm serious. A number of completely unrelated tribes have found ways to leverage their enviable tax-free status to make a LOT of money under the American system of capitalism. The aforementioned Mohegan and other tribes in Connecticut. And the Seminole tribe of Florida, which has nothing to do with the others, but now owns the Hard Rock Cafe chain and the giant casino complex they built on their reservation. And, of course, there's selling cigarettes wholesale without the taxes, which attracts lots of smokers to fill their cars with cartons of their favorite sorts.

The tribes that have done that sort of thing are doing quite well, with nice neighborhoods, college scholarships, and stipends for every member of the tribe.

That special status of a reservation is a hell of an economic advantage if you choose to use it, and the model is already there to be seen. If you want to succeed, you have to do it yourself, and, well...the means are already there for them.

[wooderson]

Where might he be headed, pray?

Israel.

[wooderson]

What's stopping the Lakota?

You may have noticed that the most successful Indian casinos are located near some, uh, rather large population centers.

The Lakota live, by and large, IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE. Any casinos they could build would be IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE. With NO NATIONAL AIRPORT.

So how, exactly, would that become a tourist destination, when people would have just as far to go, with easier access, to Las Vegas?

[De Selby]

I'm not going anywhere that's off topic, although Israel was the model for what I envision to be the case for the Lakota.  I'd rather not discuss that. 

This event would seem to be a clear cut example of the rule that ancestral land connections establish a right to nationhood.  I'd be interested to hear what theories people have about the Lakota and why they do or do not have any claim to nationhood. 

[De Selby]

Or do those things not establish a claim? 

Not especially.     Is it really the land they lived on prior to white settlement?  If so, who did they push out, so that they could live there?  If they have a right to an independent state, then we'll have to move the whole global population around.  Ain't nobody where their people started out, you know. 

I think that's a good point-but it doesn't look like these Lakota are driving anyone out.

Don't you think it's a different story when they just remain where they are, and change the terms for others to enter their neighborhood?

[Perd Hapley]

Where might he be headed, pray?

Israel.

You just assume that I'm a big Zionist, or what? 

[wooderson]

Didn't say anything about you - I just saw where shootinstudent was headed (it's a logical argument) and how your response worked into that. If it wasn't you, it would have been someone else making his point.

[Perd Hapley]

Or do those things not establish a claim? 

Not especially.     Is it really the land they lived on prior to white settlement?  If so, who did they push out, so that they could live there?  If they have a right to an independent state, then we'll have to move the whole global population around.  Ain't nobody where their people started out, you know. 

I think that's a good point-but it doesn't look like these Lakota are driving anyone out.

Don't you think it's a different story when they just remain where they are, and change the terms for others to enter their neighborhood?

I didn't say they were pushing anyone out right now.  I was talkin' about the past.