The Lakota have declared independence.

[Boomhauer]

Why is it that they don't have any right to declare independence?

Well, another group tried this in the 1860's. President Lincoln and the United States Government had a snit over this and thrashed the South over it.

Of course, SS, you and your comrades don't see any problem with the Lakota doing it, but criticize the South for declaring independance.

[The Rabbi]

Yes, that is 'the reason' for the existence of Israel as it is today.

Fargo, North Dakota would not be 'Israel' (metaphysically or as we know it). And were the homeland established there, the issues of ancestral primacy would not factor in.

But it wasn't established in Fargo or any other 'unnatural' location - it was established in the ancestral lands of Judaism, precisely because history (to Jews and to westerners - not so much to the Arabs...) gave them some kind of claim on the land.

Actually the original proposal was to place the state of Israel in Africa.  Had they done so, the State of Israel would today be there.  So the location is only tangential to its existence.
But there is no issue of ancestral primacy.  It is a dead end.

[wooderson]

Actually the original proposal was to place the state of Israel in Africa. 

And yet... where was it established, again?

[Werewolf]

A number of you have taken issue with my original post without saying why you do.

What part of the below is incorrect?

Just build a wall around their reservation and lock 'em all in. Wouldn't last long before their situation got even worse.

I"ll give ya this one. It's not terribly highroad but it does seem to be what the Lakota want.

I suppose they could then declare war on the US but we'd just kick their stupid,

North American Indians probably weren't stupid but then they did have complete control of the richest continent on the planet for 10,000+ years and did absolutely nothing with it. Few developed agriculture, few developed writing. On 2nd thought maybe they are stupid.

hunter gatherer

Fact

freezin' in the winter, fryin' in the summer

Again fact

wonderin' where their next meal is coming from

Most assuredly - hunter gatherers live on a day to day basis mostly

livin' in garbage

Again mostly - Indians didn't have much appreciation for sanitation which by the way goes a long way towards explaining one reason why they had an average

life expectancy of 33 years or so and 50% infant mortality rate

Maybe it's the next part that chaps your asses.

I have never got the whole reservation/sovereign nation thing re the INDIANS (not native Americans - if you were born here you're a native American).

Can't argue with that. You can play silly word games but if you're born here your a native.

The Indians were flat out defeated in multiple wars.

Again an indisputable historical fact. We won they lost. The winner gets to decide the terms.

Lots of people wanted to just wipe 'em out but that was not to be. They're lucky they're still around to bitch and complain.

Real lucky.

Eliminate reservations and force 'em to assimilate. In the long run thats what would be best for 'em.

The fantasy paradise world the bleeding hearts want to believe was the indian life style is crap. They'd be better off assimilating than living on reservations for the most part. I live in OK - the vast majority of the tribes here are fully assimilated into western culture while still retaining their sense of identity. Why the rest can't do the same is a wonderment to me.

[Scout26]

From my dim recollection of high school social studies their "ancestral" homeland would be back across Bering Straight in Siberia......

[K Frame]

"Indians didn't have much appreciation for sanitation..."

That's a curious assessment, given the manner in which many Americans and Europeans lived in abject filth and squalor in tightly packed cities for thousands of years.

In essence, our ancestors didn't have much of an appreciation for sanitation for a long time, either.

Generally, though, Indians were smart enough not to crap in their own water supply, something that "modern" man still struggles with far too often.

Since this part of the talk has been about sanitation and, well, crap, I'll make the observation that much of what I've read in this thread is also largely crap, and nothing of which you should be proud.

I think you can all figure out what's coming next...