Author Topic: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"  (Read 13605 times)

Desertdog

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It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« on: December 21, 2007, 08:01:48 AM »
In my email this morning.



Christmas with a capital "C".  Please do watch!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAckfn8yiAQ



Christmas with a Capital “C”


Well I went to the coffee shop
To get myself a mocha
The lady at the counter said, “Happy Holidays”
I said, “Thanks, lady. I am pretty happy, but
there's only one holiday that makes me
feel that way.”

And it's called Christmas...
what more can I say?
It's about the birth
of Christ
and you can't take that away!

You can call it something else
But that's not what it will be
It's called Christmas with
a Capital “C”.

God's got a law
And we pretty much destroyed it
We're gonna get judged
There's no way to avoid it
But Jesus came down
To take the punishment for me
He did it for you, too
So maybe you can see why

It's called Christmas
What more can I say?
It's about the birth of Christ
And you can't take that away
You can it something else
But that's not what it will be
It's called Christmas
with a Capital “C”!
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drewtam

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Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2007, 10:34:15 AM »
Why do people get so riled up about a pagan holiday, that was pretty much ignored or banned until after the Civil War?
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Tallpine

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Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2007, 10:58:34 AM »
Nollaig Chridheil!    laugh
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Boomhauer

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Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2007, 11:52:52 AM »
Heh. I work for the National Park Service. We aren't supposed to say "Merry Christmas", but we get people in who make a point of saying "Merry Christmas" to us b/c they think they are getting away with something for some reason rolleyes

I could care less about the Christmas season. The only thing it means to me is a couple of days off, large crowds at the stores, and having to hear that damn christmas music all the time.

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Desertdog

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Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2007, 01:25:49 PM »
Quote
We aren't supposed to say "Merry Christmas", but we get people in who make a point of saying "Merry Christmas" to us b/c they think they are getting away with something for some reason
I say "Merry Christmas and Happy New Year" just because some think it is politically incorrect to do so, not to mention the fact that is what I have been saying all my life, and I wasn't born yesterday.

drewtam

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Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2007, 01:29:28 PM »
Since you added the lyrics, I just want to point out that Christmas has nothing to do with the birth of Jesus.
If I may... Jesus is not the reason for the season, and Christ was never in Christmas.
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Tallpine

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Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2007, 02:47:44 PM »
From an email newsletter that I subscribe to:

Quote
Nollaig Chridheil agus Bliadhna mhath ?r!

 

(Merry Christmas and Happy New Year)

 

Winter Solstice this year occurs Dec. 22nd at 1:08 AM EST (6:08 UT)

Me?n Geimhridh (Irish translation: Midwinter) or Grianstad an Gheimhridh (Irish translation: Winter solstice)

 

The Christmas season is a strange mixture of ancient holidays, festivals, and superstitions passed down to us.  Frequently we have little personal knowledge of where many of our holiday traditions started or even why they are done, we do it because it has always been done that way.  Or has it?

 

The Christmas season has been celebrated by people everywhere across Europe and the Middle East, whether Christian or not.  The holiday is more pagan than Christian with its association with Nordic divination, Celtic fertility rites, and Roman Mithrais.  This was the time of year when Virgin mothers give birth to sacred sons and daughters; Rhiannon to Pryderi, Isis to Horus, Demeter to Persephone; and to gods and heroes such as Oedipus, Heseus, Hercules, Perseus, Jason, Dionysus, Apollo, Mithra, and even Arthur.  The stories of many of these gods and heroes possess narratives containing birth, death, and resurrection which predate the story of Jesus.  Because of these associations Martin Luther and John Calvin abhorred the season.  Did you know that the Yule season (the term Yule is actually Wiccan and was a holiday celebrating the rebirth of the Great God) was nearly banned during the Scottish Reformation of 1649?  The conservative protestant beliefs of the time almost made Christmas extinct in Scotland and much of England.  The ban was enforced in many locations by the Church of Scotland, but also defied by many people.  The Puritans refused to acknowledge it, and even made it illegal in the Massachusetts Bay Colony.  Until the first half of the 20th century it looked as if Scots might continue to reject Christmas because of its unacceptable connections to the Church of Rome, plus the habits of heavy feasting which was unacceptable with the ethics of ascetic Presbyterians of the Reformed Scottish Church.  Even until the 1960s because of the Churchs strongly held beliefs Christmas Day in Scotland was considered a working day, shops stayed open, life went on as usual.  Many who grew up during this time in Scotland, even until the 1970s, did not open presents at Christmas but waited until the day after Hogmanay (New Years Day) for Santas arrival.  In some respects you might say that 20th century commercialism saved Christmas in Scotland!  Some think the Church of Scotland wasnt so much afraid of the people practicing the old superstitious ways as they were of them adapting the customs of the Roman Church and it was this reason they avoided celebrating Christmas for so long.

 

The duration of the Yule festival depends upon the account and time period from which one reads.  Yule can be either the years shortest day - the winter solstice December 21st or 22nd depending on the year, or the period of time beginning about then and extending though 12th Night or Uphalieday (Feast of the Epiphany) on January 6th.  Some in the far north considered it starting on the eve of December 12th, Maunsmass Een, the eve before the feast day of St. Magnus.  Yuletide is commonly considered the time beginning December 26th and continuing until 12th Night.  Love, family togetherness, and accomplishments from the previous year are celebrated.  The name is derived from the sun and in spite of being held at the darkest time of the year, it is also considered a Fire Festival like Beltane and Samhain.  As with the other Fire Festivals, massive communal bonfires were lit across the countryside to mark the occasion.  The name Yule is derived from the Anglo-Saxon Yula, which means Wheel of the Year.

 

How did our Christmas end up on the 25th of December?  Well that is another story unto itself.  Tradition said Mary bore the child Jesus on the twenty-fifth day, but no one could confirm the month.  Finally in 320 AD the Roman Catholic Church decided to make it December 25th in an effort to co-opt the Mithraic celebration by the Romans and the Yule of the Celts and Saxons.  Before being Christianized as the Mass of Christ (Christmas), there was a festival honoring the God of the Sun known as the Birthday of the Invincible Sun (Dies Natalis Invicti Solis) celebrated on this date in ancient Rome.  In 272 AD it was made a public holiday, even consisting of the lightning of sacred bonfires.  Under the Julian calendar (before 1752, Britain was a holdout on accepting the Gregorian calendar established in 1582 by Papal decree  you guessed it Protestant/Catholic politics again) Yule was celebrated on January 5th.   When the calendar was changed many people refused to hold Christmas on the new date of December 25th and in some locations, such as the Shetlands, even up until the Second World War the old customs were maintained and the Auld Yule celebrated on the 5th.  Whoever said the Scots were stubborn!

 

Proto-Celtic Neolithic tribes, Celts and Druids (the word Druid mean wise man of the oak, or One who has knowledge of the oak) were also known to have held a festival during this time of year calling it Nuadhulig or New All-Heal or new mistletoe.  Everyone joined the priests in searching the forest for mistletoe growing on the scared oak tree.  It is described that once the mistletoe was found the Druid priest climbed the tree, cut the mistletoe off with a golden knife and wrapped the parasitic plant in a white cloth.  At the tree where the mistletoe was found two white bulls were sacrificed, and it is said at one time it was humans who were the sacrifice.  The wrapped plant was carried back to the village where a religious ceremony was held followed by feasting, singing and dancing.  On the next day the plant was divided up among everyone and taken to their homes to be hung up inside or above doors to ward off evil and to give fairies a shelter from the winter chill.  In the Druid calendars, the solstices and equinoxes all occurred at about midpoint in each season. The passage and chamber of Newgrange (Pre-Celtic or possibly Proto-Celtic 3,200 BCE), a tomb in Ireland, is illuminated by the winter solstice sunrise. A shaft of sunlight shines through the roof box over the entrance and penetrates the passage to light up the chamber. The dramatic event lasts for 17 minutes at dawn from the 19th to the 23rd of December. The point of roughness is the term for the winter solstice in Wales which in ancient Welsh mythology, was when Rhiannon gave birth to the sacred son, Pryderi.

 

The Romans celebrated this season and called it Saturnalia in honor of Saturnus, the Sower.  For seven days there was a feast celebrating the fruits of the earth and hope for their renewal.  Bacchus, the god of wine, played a major role in this festival.  Many of the customs from that time have survived in various forms such as the giving of gifts, decorating a tree with lights, paper party hats, balloons and the blowing of paper party trumpets.

Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Finch

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Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2007, 02:53:00 PM »
Because after all, Christmas is the only holiday celebrated during this time of year and you should assume that everyone you encounter will be celebrating this season in the exact same way you are.  shocked
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Ron

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Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2007, 03:33:52 PM »
The National Holiday observed on Dec.25th is Christmas.

Christians right or wrong celebrate Christs birth that day.

That is all.

K Frame

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Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2007, 03:57:50 PM »
Don't like the fact that I wished you a Merry Christmas?

You're perfectly welcome to respond with a hearty EFF YOU!

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Finch

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Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2007, 04:43:00 PM »
Don't like the fact that I wished you a Merry Christmas?

You're perfectly welcome to respond with a hearty EFF YOU!
Or I could just say thanks...

People don't get riled up when you wish someone a Merry Christmas, it when you say happy holidays that all the Bill O'Riley sheep start flying off the handle. I could care less if someone wished me a happy Kwanza, Huannakah, Christmas, Eid ul-Adha, or whatever. But when people start crying because stores or individuals use the generic all-inclusive "happy holidays" instead of picking their chosen religious celebration, I find it kind of lame.
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GigaBuist

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Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2007, 04:50:56 PM »
Why do people get so riled up about a pagan holiday, that was pretty much ignored or banned until after the Civil War?

Ah, yes, the tree -- symbol of fertility.

I don't like the pagan roots of that symbol being displayed during Christmas, but I'm not a dick about it.  I just don't put one up in my house.  That was a little easier when I was single.  This year I compromised... she gets to put some lights on a tree in the living room.

The rubber tree.


atomd

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Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2007, 05:32:10 PM »
Quote
Don't like the fact that I wished you a Merry Christmas?

You're perfectly welcome to respond with a hearty EFF YOU!

I think that should be the standard greeting for every occasion!

mustanger98

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Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2007, 05:42:38 PM »
Quote
Don't like the fact that I wished you a Merry Christmas?

You're perfectly welcome to respond with a hearty EFF YOU!

I think that should be the standard greeting for every occasion!

What should be? Merry Christmas? or EFF YOU!?

Seriously now, if somebody wishes me a Merry Christmas, I generally say "you too". But, I don't personally do Christmas and haven't put up a tree in a lot of years...

Ya'll realize what a fire hazzard it is? I recall a test they did on the Atlanta news about 15 years ago... they took a plain tree, a tree treated with fake snow, and a third tree treated with fire retardent fake snow... anyhow, they set fire to each one and timed it. Slowest to burn was the one treated with fake snow. The fastest to burn was the one treated with the fire retardent stuff. laugh

RevDisk

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Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2007, 07:12:26 PM »
Why do people get so riled up about a pagan holiday, that was pretty much ignored or banned until after the Civil War?

Ah, yes, the tree -- symbol of fertility.

I don't like the pagan roots of that symbol being displayed during Christmas, but I'm not a dick about it.  I just don't put one up in my house.  That was a little easier when I was single.  This year I compromised... she gets to put some lights on a tree in the living room.

The rubber tree.

Fair enough.  I won't be rude about you weirdos corrupting our holiday and you don't have to diss our symbolism. 

 angel

I say 'happy holidays' or 'merry christmas' more or less interchangably.  Even though Yule is my thing, I don't care that much to start a "War on Yule" campaign to combat the hijacking of our holiday schedule, or whatnot.  To each their own, and as long as folks have decent intentions about things and don't get too militant, a style of seasonal greeting makes no difference to me.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2007, 07:28:54 PM »
I still have to ask, what's so pagan about Christmas?  The name?  Christian.  The churchy stuff going on?  Christian.  The little figurines of Middle-Eastern characters?  Christian.  The star on top of the tree?  Christian.  The guy in the red suit who gives gifts?  Christian in origin. 

What's so pagan about it? 
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K Frame

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Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2007, 07:59:33 PM »
"Ah, yes, the tree -- symbol of fertility."

Not the evergreen it isn't.

In Nordo-Germanic mythology the evergreen was worshiped, and even brought into homes, because it was seen as a home for the various Gods when everything else died in the winter.


To say that Christmas is a "pagan holiday" is bullcrap.

It may have its roots in pagan celebrations, but the concept of Christmas as we celebrate it certainly was not a pagan concept.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2007, 04:23:21 AM »
To say that Christmas is a "pagan holiday" is bullcrap.  It may have its roots in pagan celebrations, but the concept of Christmas as we celebrate it certainly was not a pagan concept.


Right.  Just like Halloween is a celebration of candy and costumes and scary stuff, with no pagan significance, except for a small minority. 

Roots in pagan celebrations?  Not really.  Christmas may be somewhat influenced by pagan celebrations, but that's not nearly the same.  Even the major "pagan" points of similarity (the winter solstice and the tree) were not necessarily pagan in origin.  We don't really know why that time of year was chosen, or why trees came to be used in Christmas celebrations. 

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Harold Tuttle

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Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2007, 05:51:52 AM »
A good book:
The Battle for Christmas
by Stephen Nissenbaum

http://www.amazon.com/Battle-Christmas-Stephen-Nissenbaum/dp/0679740384

This scholarly analysis of our modern celebration of Christmas pulls together a thoroughly convincing case for the widely accepted notion that it is a 19th-century creation, indeed a deliberate reformation and taming of a holiday with wilder pagan origins. Christmas was set at December 25 in the fourth century, not for any biblical link with Christ's birth, but because the church hoped to annex and Christianize the existing midwinter pagan feast. This latter was based on the seasonal agricultural plenty, with the year's food supply newly in store, and nothing to do in the fields. It was a time of drinking and debauchery from the Roman Saturnalia to the English Mummers. The Victorians hijacked the holiday, and Victorian writers helped turn it into a feast of safe domesticity and a cacophonous chime of retail cash registers. 

From Publishers Weekly
Christmas in America hasn't always been the benevolent, family-centered holiday we idealize. The Puritans of the Massachusetts Bay Colony so feared the day's association with pagan winter solstice revels, replete with public drunkenness, licentiousness and violence, that they banned Christmas celebrations. In this ever-surprising work, Nissenbaum (Sex, Diet, and Debility in Jacksonian America), a professor of history at the University of Massachusetts, conducts a vivid historical tour of the holiday's social evolution. Nissenbaum maintains that not until the 1820s in New York City, among the mercantile Episcopalian Knickerbockers, was Christmas as we know it celebrated. Before Washington Irving and Clement Clarke Moore ("A Visit from St. Nicholas") popularized the genteel version, he explains, the holiday was more of a raucous festival and included demands for tribute from the wealthy by roaming bands of lower-class extortionists. Peppering his insights with analysis of period literature, art and journalism, Nissenbaum constructs his theory. Taming Christmas, he contends, was a way to contain the chaos of social dislocation in a developing consumer-capitalist culture. Later, under the influence of Unitarian writers, the Christmas season became a living object lesson in familial stability and charity, centering on the ideals of bourgeois childhood. From colonial New England, through 18th- and 19th-century New York's and Philadelphia's urban Yuletide contributions, to Christmas traditions in the antebellum South, Nissenbaum's excursion is fascinating, and will startle even those who thought they knew all there was to know about Christmas.
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Desertdog

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Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2007, 06:18:35 AM »
I guess the pagans are trying to take it back since Merry Christmas is out and Nativity scenes are out. 

grislyatoms

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Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2007, 03:18:20 PM »
Quote
People don't get riled up when you wish someone a Merry Christmas, it when you say happy holidays that all the Bill O'Riley sheep start flying off the handle. I could care less if someone wished me a happy Kwanza, Huannakah, Christmas, Eid ul-Adha, or whatever. But when people start crying because stores or individuals use the generic all-inclusive "happy holidays" instead of picking their chosen religious celebration, I find it kind of lame.


I do as well. I use "Happy Holidays" because it IS generic and all-inclusive. I find it quite pretentious to wish someone a "Merry Christmas" when I don't know their beliefs. Not that I give a rip what they celebrate anyway, but the "Happy Holidays" part at least is sincere.

I told the checker at the grocery store just last night "Happy Holidays" and he responded with "No, Merry Christmas." I found that even more pretentious and irritating. He wasn't wishing me a "Merry Christmas", he was making a personal statement about himself. Good for him. rolleyes Again, as if I care...




 
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Desertdog

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Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2007, 03:57:18 PM »
Quote
I do as well. I use "Happy Holidays" because it IS generic and all-inclusive.

Which holiday are you talking about when you say "Happy Holidays"?  New Years, Martin Luther King Day, Easter, 4th of July, Armistice Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving, Christmas, Ramadan, Hanukkah, Yon Kippur? 

When I say "Merry Christmas" I am talking about December 25th.  When I say "Happy New Year" I am actully wishing them to be happy for the upcoming year.

To me and many other people I know, "Happy Holidays" is not generic, it is PC talk.

grislyatoms

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Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2007, 04:35:35 PM »
Desertdog:

Quote
To me and many other people I know, "Happy Holidays" is not generic, it is PC talk.


How is it not generic, and how is it PC? If I wish someone "Happy Holidays" I am expressing my desire that whatever holiday they choose to celebrate is happy. I don't give a fart what particular holiday they celebrate, but I do hope it's enjoyable.

It's also lot easier than saying "Happy RamadanChanukahChristmasYuleSolsticeKwanzaaBuddha's Birthday" or "Happy<insert holiday of your choice>". grin

By the way, Merry Christmas. grin












 

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Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2007, 05:10:41 PM »
My birthday is December 25th.
I enjoy telling some of my co-workers that I'm actually Christ reborn.

Yep,I'm going to hell.
 grin

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Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2007, 05:21:26 PM »
When I was a depressed angst ridden teen age punk rock lefty anarchist, I used to go on and on about
Christmas being pagan and hating Christmas music.

Now that I'm an old right wing Christian anarchist I love saying merry Christmas especially if it makes young depressed liberals scream in agony. grin

American Christmas music is really great, we have much more humor in our songs (grandma got run over by a reindeer etc) Then for instance, the Irish.
I spent 3 Christmas's in Ireland and their Christmas music really stank!
Plus they do not watch "Its A Wonderful Life" either....the infidels!
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