Lesson Learned the Hard Way. Scottsdale AZ Cops Ask Citizenship Proof

[Tecumseh]

so what do you suggest be done when someone has neither?  how long will you want the cops to hold them?just in case

If they are merely being arrested for a crime--we are not pulling random peeps off the streets--then if they are aliens, their docs have to be current or correct. If they are supposedly a citizen, their social, DL and/or birth certificate, or record of residency should clear them. Muy facil.

So if they commit a traffic crime, they should then be forced to prove citizenship?  I blew a stop sign, and now ICE is investigating me? 

[Tecumseh]

I wanted to add that if they do pass a national ID check, we should start a movement where 10000's of people name themselves John Smith.  What will they do then?

[Manedwolf]

so what do you suggest be done when someone has neither?  how long will you want the cops to hold them?just in case

If they are merely being arrested for a crime--we are not pulling random peeps off the streets--then if they are aliens, their docs have to be current or correct. If they are supposedly a citizen, their social, DL and/or birth certificate, or record of residency should clear them. Muy facil.

So if they commit a traffic crime, they should then be forced to prove citizenship?  I blew a stop sign, and now ICE is investigating me? 

Yup! Personally, I'm sick of illegals without insurance who do blow through stop signs because they come from someplace where traffic laws are just a suggestion, and they have no respect for those laws, either...not that they respect the law, period, by being an illegal.

I don't see a problem. If you have a valid driver's license, there's your citizenship. Driving without a license, you go to jail anyway.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

don't see a problem?  miss this one?
you don't have to be  a citizen to get a license.

nor are all those records as easily verified as folks imagine

[Manedwolf]

In what state do you not have to be a citizen to get a driver's license?
You sure do in mine!

I've had it with with illegals. They're not undocumented, they're ILLEGAL. Willing lawbreakers who do not want to become Americans, they just want to steal from America, cheat America, take from America. I'm sick of the rampant identity theft, I'm sick of the hospitals about to fail because they can't turn away illegals who use the ER as a first-aid kit and then skip out on the bill and vanish, and I'm sick of things like a bunch of them just having a machete fight (!) on a public street in New England.

Deportation NOW. And federal prison if they come back.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

what state do you live in that you imagine that to be true?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/05/03/MNG4ECJ4UH1.DTL



or this

NonU.S. citizens temporarily residing in NH for the purpose of employment or attending a learning institution
must provide ONE of the following: visa for attending a learning institution, visa for employment, or visa including spouse or
dependent(s) of the above; ONE of the following: valid I-20 form or valid optical practical training card; and ONE of the following:
letter from applicants employer stating the applicants term of employment, or letter from the learning institution or employer
stating that the applicant is the spouse of a visa-holding student or employee.
Noncitizens permanently residing in New Hampshire must provide an SSN card and one of the following: valid
permanent resident card; valid I-94 card issued by the CIS indicating refugee status and date of entry into the U.S.; or valid
 NonU.S. citizens permanently residing in NH without
an SSN may submit a letter from the SSA verifying that
they have not been issued an SSN. Nonresidents living
in New Hampshire on a temporary basis to go to school
or to work lawfully, or who are relatives of a lawfully

http://www.nilc.org/immspbs/DLs/state_dl_rqrmts_120504.pdf

[MechAg94]

So you just have to be legal resident which is reasonable. 

[The Rabbi]

In what state do you not have to be a citizen to get a driver's license?
You sure do in mine!

I've had it with with illegals. They're not undocumented, they're ILLEGAL. Willing lawbreakers who do not want to become Americans, they just want to steal from America, cheat America, take from America. I'm sick of the rampant identity theft, I'm sick of the hospitals about to fail because they can't turn away illegals who use the ER as a first-aid kit and then skip out on the bill and vanish, and I'm sick of things like a bunch of them just having a machete fight (!) on a public street in New England.

Deportation NOW. And federal prison if they come back.

Every state.  You don't need to be a citizen to do anything here except vote.  I have sold 2 guns this year to non-citizens.
I also am sick of people who come from places where traffic laws are mere suggestions.
But I dont think we can deport people back to New Jersey.

[Perd Hapley]

In what state do you not have to be a citizen to get a driver's license?
You sure do in mine!   

I'm one of them awful, Mex-hatin' anti-immigration bigots, but I think you ought to check your facts on that. 

People too often confuse citizenship with legal, non-citizen status. 

[Manedwolf]

Okay, not "citizen" that's gone through the whole swearing-in thing and all, but at least "legal resident" as citzen. An illegal cannot get any sort of driver's license here, no. They need to have the proper paperwork that shows they're here legally.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

and they get their license while a student  then they quit school or decide to stay after school  do you imagine tat license is recovered by the state?

[Manedwolf]

and they get their license while a student  then they quit school or decide to stay after school  do you imagine tat license is recovered by the state?

If they're here on a student visa and they quit school, their ass needs to be deported. Terrorists, hello? Remember that?

[MechAg94]

If they still use the license after that, it will show up in the system that way when they show ID at the traffic stop or the arrest. 

As long as these guys are just responding to flags that come up in the system, I don't have an issue with it.  If they are making people jump through hoops to get the handcuffs off, that is a different matter.

[The Rabbi]

If they still use the license after that, it will show up in the system that way when they show ID at the traffic stop or the arrest. 

And then what?

I had an immigrant the other day try to buy a gun.  He was denied, I think on the basis of an expired visa.
Absolutely nothing is going to happen to him.  INS is way too busy dealing with actual criminals to go round up and deport some Chaldean running a convenience market.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

exactly  even after all the noise in prince william county the other day they got a guy for sexual assault  ins wouldn't come to get him

[MechAg94]

The original story made it sound like the local INS office was making a more determined effort to work with local police and respond to their requests for information and to pick up illegals that they want to bring in.  I think that was partly why the those LEO's were doing this.  I have heard bits and pieces here and there that federal immigration enforcement has been stepped up. 

That has been one of the problems, IMO, with our immigration policy in the past.  We had the capability to put a lid on most of the problem, but we weren't due to lack of effort, lack of will to do it, or lack of man power. 

[The Rabbi]

That has been one of the problems, IMO, with our immigration policy in the past.  We had the capability to put a lid on most of the problem, but we weren't due to lack of effort, lack of will to do it, or lack of man power. 

You realize the fallacy of this statement, right?

[Tecumseh]

In what state do you not have to be a citizen to get a driver's license?
You sure do in mine!

I've had it with with illegals. They're not undocumented, they're ILLEGAL. Willing lawbreakers who do not want to become Americans, they just want to steal from America, cheat America, take from America. I'm sick of the rampant identity theft, I'm sick of the hospitals about to fail because they can't turn away illegals who use the ER as a first-aid kit and then skip out on the bill and vanish, and I'm sick of things like a bunch of them just having a machete fight (!) on a public street in New England.

Deportation NOW. And federal prison if they come back.

I agree.  Now how do we go about solving this problem without violating peoples 4th Amendment rights?  And without turning the USA into a 1984 style of country.