Police Begin Fingerprinting on Traffic Stops

[Desertdog]

Green Bay
Police Begin Fingerprinting on Traffic Stops
By Sarah Thomsen
http://www.wbay.com/Global/story.asp?s=2776926

If you're ticketed by Green Bay police, you'll get more than a fine. You'll get fingerprinted, too. It's a new way police are cracking down on crime.

If you're caught speeding or playing your music too loud, or other crimes for which you might receive a citation, Green Bay police officers will ask for your drivers license and your finger. You'll be fingerprinted right there on the spot. The fingerprint appears right next to the amount of the fine.

Police say it's meant to protect you -- in case the person they're citing isn't who they claim to be. But not everyone is sold on that explanation.

"What we've seen happen for the last couple of years [is] increasing use of false or fraudulent identification documents," Captain Greg Urban said.

Police say they want to prevent the identity theft problem that Milwaukee has, where 13 percent of all violators give a false name.

But in Green Bay, where police say they only average about five cases in a year, drivers we talked with think the new policy is extreme.

"That's going too far," Ken Scherer from Oconto said. "You look at the ID, that's what they're there for. Either it's you or it's not. I don't think that's a valid excuse."

"I would feel uncomfortable but I would do it," Carol Pilgrim of Green Bay said.

Citizens do have the right to say no. "They could say no and not have to worry about getting arrested," defense attorney Jackson Main said. "On the other hand, I'm like everybody else. When a police officer tells me to do something, I'm going to do it whether I have the right to say no or not."

That's exactly why many drivers are uneasy about the fine print in this fingerprinting policy.

Police stress that the prints are just to make sure you are who you claim to be and do not go into any kind of database; they simply stay on the ticket for future reference if the identity is challenged.

[gunsmith]

I have a prediction for this thread.
Its fascism, no its not
Its fascism, no its not
Its fascism, no its not
Its fascism, no its not
Its fascism, no its not
Its fascism, no its not
Its fascism, no its not
Its fascism, no its not

[Matthew Carberry]

So the police are going to ask people they've pulled over to give them the finger?

That can only end with a tasering. 

[Finch]

Its fascism

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

Citizens do have the right to say no. "They could say no and not have to worry about getting arrested," defense attorney Jackson Main said. "On the other hand, I'm like everybody else. When a police officer tells me to do something, I'm going to do it whether I have the right to say no or not."

That's one of the problems with our country these days.
Government agent with a badge and gun says "jump" we say "how high?"

[gunsmith]

Finch said.

Its fascism

NO! it isn't!

[gunsmith]

That can only end with a tasering.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkMkGOpAF4s

[Standing Wolf]

Police say it's meant to protect you...

We had to burn down the village to save it.

[Tecumseh]

The world is getting scarier and scarier. 

[Devonai]

Ideally the city's lawyers will give Chief Urban a blanket party and this policy will quietly go away.

[K Frame]

Being asked to provide any sort of identification at all for any reason is anathma to a free society.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

my thumprint has been required on 100's of checks  not a big deal  i know some check scammers and understand why banks do it. if they don't someone like el tejon can generate reasonable doubt and they walk
same with tickets have a friend whose brother got him locked up by mimicing his id

[Firethorn]

Mike, they're being called into court(well, unless they just want to pay the fine).  They're not necessarily producing identification, which is why the state has to worry about 13% of the people they stop for a traffic violation giving a false name.

The way I look at it - requiring the print protects me - If somebody gives my name to the police officer, counting my my squeaky clean record to avoid having warrants come up which would result in arrest, when the fines aren't paid and nobody shows up in court, when the officers come and arrest me it's relatively quick to prove it wasn't me(with the fingerprint).  Heck, in my case they shouldn't even need me to come in - pull up the fingerprint records for my name(I've been fingerprinted for my security clearance, CCW), go 'nope, not his print' and call it a day by running the print through the database to find out who it actually is. 

If they don't require identification for issuing a citation requiring payment or a court appearance, I'd darn well want something to prove that the person who shows up in court(or gets arrested for not appearing), is or is not indeed the person issued said citation.  A fingerprint is a pretty good method.  Doesn't even have to enter the system unless the person doesn't pay/show.

my thumprint has been required on 100's of checks  not a big deal  i know some check scammers and understand why banks do it. if they don't someone like el tejon can generate reasonable doubt and they walk

This made me think if the reason why Milwaukee might be instituting this requirement.  If I was a lawyer, knowing that Milwaukee has a 13% false name rate - for any given traffic offense I could drag that statistic out in front of the judge&jury and say that that shows reasonable doubt that my client actually was the one cited.

same with tickets have a friend whose brother got him locked up by mimicing his id

Scarily possible - I have some relatives that would do something like this.  My aunt once stole my mother's ID back in her teens to get into bars.  It's just a step further to hand it to the police officer for that speeding offense...  You'd expect the officer to detect that, but some people do look similar, especially if you have a bad license photo.  Or a semi-professional fake ID.

[Paddy]

When you're stopped for a traffic violation, you're subject to arrest, right?   And when you're arrested, you get fingerprinted, right? So, instead, they do you a favor by giving you a ticket.  The fingerprint is just an additional means of identification, like the photo on your driver's license.  Driving is a privilege and carries with it certain responsibilities. I don't see a problem.

[wooderson]

Police stress that the prints are just to make sure you are who you claim to be and do not go into any kind of database; they simply stay on the ticket for future reference if the identity is challenged.

Everybody raise your hand if you're cool with this standard being applied to the ATF, state agencies and guns?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

its scary how easy the guys fake ids.


my friends brother cost him plenty  the ticket he got that night were connected to a much more serious charge that didn't surface till after they investigated   and the 2 brothers look alike. thankfully the cop was a real help  he said as much alike as they look they are totally different personas and he convinced commonwealth to drop charges.  they got the brother he pulled 5 years

[K Frame]

Does anyone grasp the concept of sarcasm?

Didn't think so.

[jefnvk]

Is it legal to drive in WI without a license on you?  Seems that they should just ticket the name on your drivers license, or arrest you for not having a license...

[Matthew Carberry]

Is it legal to drive in WI without a license on you?  Seems that they should just ticket the name on your drivers license, or arrest you for not having a license...

So you steal my license or make a fake one with my name on without my knowledge and the burden falls on me to come up with an alibi (in essence prove my innocence) to avoid the ticket?

Uh uh.

[K Frame]

Is it legal to drive in WI without a license on you?  Seems that they should just ticket the name on your drivers license, or arrest you for not having a license...

So you steal my license or make a fake one with my name on without my knowledge and the burden falls on me to come up with an alibi (in essence prove my innocence) to avoid the ticket?

Uh uh.

And that's different from being a suspect in any other investigation... how?

You're getting the police process confused with the judicial process.

In the police process you don't have the presumption of innocent until proven guilty.

You have that at the point where you enter the judicial process.

[MechAg94]

So will thumb print scanners be the new national ID? 

Probably more difficult to fake than a normal picture ID.  I don't know.  You already have to give a print when renewing your driver's license in Texas.  Why not just update your photo when you go in and the LEO's just print you with a portable scanner for ID. 

[ilbob]

If you have to Id yourself, a thumb print is pretty foolproof, and hard to fake.

[Manedwolf]

If you have to Id yourself, a thumb print is pretty foolproof, and hard to fake.

You don't watch Mythbusters, I take it.

You leave fingerprints everywhere you go. They defeated scanners using everything from a latex positive to a photocopy of one. A guy in Japan defeated them using melted gummi bears as the positive.

[Perd Hapley]

A guy in Japan defeated them using melted gummi bears as the positive.

So that's where MacGyver has been? 

[ilbob]

If you have to Id yourself, a thumb print is pretty foolproof, and hard to fake.

You don't watch Mythbusters, I take it.

You leave fingerprints everywhere you go. They defeated scanners using everything from a latex positive to a photocopy of one. A guy in Japan defeated them using melted gummi bears as the positive.

I doubt the cop is going to let you use a gummy bear when he takes your thumbprint to put on the citation.