Lower the drinking age?

[Firethorn]

Get caught driving at <insert level here: BAC is another messed-up issue>, and not only do you loose your license for a few years, but the vehicle you're driving is confiscated.

Some problems, as some states already do this.  The response is to drive the cheapest beater you can find.

Or borrow/rent/steal a different vehicle.

Not exactly fair.  I'd simply tack another $5k onto the fine.

[Manedwolf]

My idea?

You can purchase alcohol at 18 with a valid military ID, 21 otherwise.

If we hand them a rifle and expect them to go fight for us, we can sure trust them to enjoy a cold one when they get back.

[The Viking]

My idea?

You can purchase alcohol at 18 with a valid military ID, 21 otherwise.

If we hand them a rifle and expect them to go fight for us, we can sure trust them to enjoy a cold one when they get back.

Is that a part in your plan to get Americas youth to sign up for service?

[Bigjake]

My idea?

You can purchase alcohol at 18 with a valid military ID, 21 otherwise.

If we hand them a rifle and expect them to go fight for us, we can sure trust them to enjoy a cold one when they get back. 

I couldn't agree more.

I'd ever take that as far as the Robert A. Heinlein approach and not allow voting without service of some sort..

[Sergeant Bob]

My idea?

You can purchase alcohol at 18 with a valid military ID, 21 otherwise.

If we hand them a rifle and expect them to go fight for us, we can sure trust them to enjoy a cold one when they get back.

That's pretty much the was it used to be, at least on a military installation. Didn't matter what the state laws were.

[Ex-MA Hole]

ManedWolf, I like that idea.  A lot.

It would need to be thought out a bit, but that's a damn good idea....

I never understood the 18 is good to die, and good to vote, but not good to have a beer.

[jefnvk]

My idea?

You can purchase alcohol at 18 with a valid military ID, 21 otherwise.

If we hand them a rifle and expect them to go fight for us, we can sure trust them to enjoy a cold one when they get back.

I couldn't agree more.

I'd ever take that as far as the Robert A. Heinlein approach and not allow voting without service of some sort..

Yep, thats a great idea.  Give the military special privileges.  It has worked so well for so many countries so far.

Tell me this.  How do you geniuses handle like me, who is physically medically ineligible for the military?  Do I get to live like a second class citizen the rest of my life?

Great idea.

[MechAg94]

If you are going to change the way drunk driving is applied, at least make the limit more rational based on who is causing the accidents.  I seriously doubt most accidents are caused by people with a BAC of 0.08. 

[Strings]

I like the idea of running things ala Starship Troopers. But I don't think most people fully understand the concept...

 Although military service is specifically mentioned, the term used is "Federal Service". Nothing to say that couldn't just as well be served doing public works jobs, or pushing paper, or what have you. Ways CAN be found...

[Manedwolf]

I like the idea of running things ala Starship Troopers. But I don't think most people fully understand the concept...

 Although military service is specifically mentioned, the term used is "Federal Service". Nothing to say that couldn't just as well be served doing public works jobs, or pushing paper, or what have you. Ways CAN be found...

Just be sure you specify the book and not the "movie".

Some people don't read.

[Sergeant Bob]

My idea?

You can purchase alcohol at 18 with a valid military ID, 21 otherwise.

If we hand them a rifle and expect them to go fight for us, we can sure trust them to enjoy a cold one when they get back.

I couldn't agree more.

I'd ever take that as far as the Robert A. Heinlein approach and not allow voting without service of some sort..

Yep, thats a great idea.  Give the military special privileges.  It has worked so well for so many countries so far.

Tell me this.  How do you geniuses handle like me, who is physically medically ineligible for the military?  Do I get to live like a second class citizen the rest of my life?

Great idea.

OK, we're sorry. We also want to include people who are physically medically ineligible for the military to the "get to drink at 18" club.

[Joe Demko]

I don't think we need to give military personnel any special privileges.  If the military wants to serve alcohol to their under-21 personnel on base, that's an in-house decision that I have no problem accepting.  Off base they need to live by the exact same laws as the rest of us.  If it is important to you that 18 year old soldiers be able to walk into a bar and buy a drink, then you need to have the drinking age lowered for everybody.

[Tecumseh]

My idea?

You can purchase alcohol at 18 with a valid military ID, 21 otherwise.

If we hand them a rifle and expect them to go fight for us, we can sure trust them to enjoy a cold one when they get back.

I couldn't agree more.

I'd ever take that as far as the Robert A. Heinlein approach and not allow voting without service of some sort..

Yep, thats a great idea.  Give the military special privileges.  It has worked so well for so many countries so far.

Tell me this.  How do you geniuses handle like me, who is physically medically ineligible for the military?  Do I get to live like a second class citizen the rest of my life?

Great idea.

I agree.  If we are going to give the military special priveledges because they serve, then take all those 18 year old and 19 year olds who pay taxes and give them their money back.  Give the tax payers a break.  They do pay the salaries of military personal.

Oh and...
Robert Heinlein did not take this approach.  He used it in a book. 

[Bigjake]

Yep, thats a great idea.  Give the military special privileges.  It has worked so well for so many countries so far.

Tell me this.  How do you geniuses handle like me, who is physically medically ineligible for the military?  Do I get to live like a second class citizen the rest of my life?

Great idea.

Read the whole quote, I never once said "military" service.

[jefnvk]

So how do I get a military ID without service?  And what service do you have in mind for the right to vote?  I'm sorry I assumed you meant military service, but that was what the rest of your post was about.

[Bigjake]

Oh and...
Robert Heinlein did not take this approach.  He used it in a book.  

Have you even read Heinlein??  The assertion that He just "used that approach in a book" is not only ill informed, it's ludicrous.  The whole bloody book is more an advocacy of the virtues of service and how Marxism is a Bad Thing than it is a Sci Fi novel.  Heinlein wrote this book as clarification of his own beliefs, and Colonel Dubois is just a vehicle for Heinlein's thoughts and voice.

[Joe Demko]

Heinlein was a science fiction author.  No more, no less.  His ideas work so splendidly in his novels because he wrote them that way.

It has always seemed to me that the folks who are most enamoured with the way things are done in Starship Troopers love it because they see it as a fantastic way to disenfranchise people with whom they disagree.

[Bigjake]

So how do I get a military ID without service?  And what service do you have in mind for the right to vote?  I'm sorry I assumed you meant military service, but that was what the rest of your post was about.

I guess I meant in the context of the book itself,  MI wasn't the only federal service that got you a franchise, it was just the only one the book centered on.

  Guess that validates your assumption, and that is what I meant in that post.  As for you not physically able to serve in a combat MOS,  maybe some sort of support job fitting your mental ability's rather than physical, I duno.  I wasn't trying to imply you need to be a 2nd class citizen, just tossing an idea up.

 Lack of physical would screw all kinds of otherwise good folks if that idea was implemented in our current system.

[Bigjake]

It has always seemed to me that the folks who are most enamoured with the way things are done in Starship Troopers love it because they see it as a fantastic way to disenfranchise people with whom they disagree.

I do disagree with utter morons on a pretty regular basis, so you're right.

but Heinlein puts it best; "the franchise is today limited to discharged veterans", (ch. XII), instead of anyone "...who is 18 years old and has a body temperature near 37?C."[

yes, I did have to dig that up, couldn't remember perfectly

[Firethorn]

but Heinlein puts it best; "the franchise is today limited to discharged veterans", (ch. XII), instead of anyone "...who is 18 years old and has a body temperature near 37?C."

One of the qualifiers in the books was that the feds were REQUIRED to allow anybody willing to work to the best of their ability to sign up for a term of service.

You could be a deaf-mute cripple and they'd be required to find you a job if you asked.

[SteveS]

but Heinlein puts it best; "the franchise is today limited to discharged veterans", (ch. XII), instead of anyone "...who is 18 years old and has a body temperature near 37?C."

One of the qualifiers in the books was that the feds were REQUIRED to allow anybody willing to work to the best of their ability to sign up for a term of service.

You could be a deaf-mute cripple and they'd be required to find you a job if you asked.

So these are essentially gov't employees in addition to the military?  A system where these are the only people that can vote?  This sounds really unstable and just as prone to corruption adn problems as our current system.  No thanks.

[Strings]

I think you miss the point Steve. It's not "you're a government employee, so you get the right to vote". You do a term of Federal Service (could be military, could be something clerical, whatever). After your term of service is up, you've earned the right to vote. You can skip service, and live your life normally... you just don't get to vote...

[gunsmith]

Heinlein was a science fiction author.  No more, no less.

Heresy! Blasphemer

Friends! We have a heretic in our midst!
Fetch me "THE COMFY CHAIR!!!"

[Joe Demko]

I do disagree with utter morons on a pretty regular basis, so you're right.

So anybody who disagrees with you is an utter moron?

[Bigjake]

Nope, you read my post, and deliberately took it out of context.  that, or you fall into the category already mentioned.