Author Topic: The Decider pardons himself for warcrimes.  (Read 8592 times)

Finch

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The Decider pardons himself for warcrimes.
« on: January 20, 2008, 04:40:48 PM »
Something that came across my way.  rolleyes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHQ7Prwh7Gc

Edit: After searching I found out that it was from 2006. Still stupid anyways.

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MechAg94

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Re: The Decider pardons himself for warcrimes.
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2008, 07:07:12 PM »
It would be nice to have a better description of this bill.  That source is somewhat hostile.  I guess I would assume there is a provision preventing the retroactive prosecution of people prior to a certain date. 

If Bush wanted pardon himself or his people, he wouldn't need to put it in a bill.  Congress isn't necessary.  I wouldn't be surprised if he did it before he left office given the attitudes of some people who hate him.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Paddy

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Re: The Decider pardons himself for warcrimes.
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2008, 05:48:37 AM »
Quote
If Bush wanted pardon himself or his people, he wouldn't need to put it in a bill.  Congress isn't necessary.  I wouldn't be surprised if he did it before he left office given the attitudes of some people who hate him crimes he committed while in office.

Fixed it for you.

MechAg94

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Re: The Decider pardons himself for warcrimes.
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2008, 06:15:39 AM »
Thank you for making my point.  Smiley
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ilbob

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Re: The Decider pardons himself for warcrimes.
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2008, 08:50:35 AM »
Bush can issue a pardon for any such crimes as he so choses. No need for it to be in a bill passed by congress. The tone of the piece was clearly pretty hostile and one sided, so I am inclined to think it may well have left out important facts.

It seems entirely fair to me that people who in good faith acted in ways they reasonably believed were lawful should have some protection from politically based prosecution at some future date.

In fact, if he so chose to do so, there is no prohibition from him issuing a secret pardon and not publishing it. I can't imagine it would in any way invalidate such a pardon.
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Tecumseh

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Re: The Decider pardons himself for warcrimes.
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2008, 05:26:09 PM »
Bush can issue a pardon for any such crimes as he so choses. No need for it to be in a bill passed by congress. The tone of the piece was clearly pretty hostile and one sided, so I am inclined to think it may well have left out important facts.

It seems entirely fair to me that people who in good faith acted in ways they reasonably believed were lawful should have some protection from politically based prosecution at some future date.

In fact, if he so chose to do so, there is no prohibition from him issuing a secret pardon and not publishing it. I can't imagine it would in any way invalidate such a pardon.

I am pretty sure that torturing people, murdering innocent Iraqi people, and lying to the country are illegal and "W" knew they were illegal from the getgo.  What a sad state of affairs when people refuse to see that our president is essentially a dictator.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: The Decider pardons himself for warcrimes.
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2008, 06:02:53 PM »

I am pretty sure that torturing people, murdering innocent Iraqi people, and lying to the country are illegal and "W" knew they were illegal from the getgo.  What a sad state of affairs when people refuse to see that our president is essentially a dictator.
grin

Sometimes you guys just make me laugh.

Boomhauer

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Re: The Decider pardons himself for warcrimes.
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2008, 06:42:13 PM »
Quote
that torturing people, murdering innocent Iraqi people

That would be one bitchin' prez if he was actually pulling out terrorist's fingernails and whacking Iraqis left and right himself...
 cheesy

Way I see it, we could do with quite a bit more of "torturing" Islamofacists and not worrying so much about looking politically correct and soft. We'd win the war faster, probably.

You do realize that our military is supposed to kill people and break things, right? So using the military for war is "commiting war crimes"?


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Dntsycnt

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Re: The Decider pardons himself for warcrimes.
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2008, 07:01:42 PM »
Using the military honestly, morally, and in a just war isn't a crime.

"Win the war faster"  cheesy

Boomhauer

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Re: The Decider pardons himself for warcrimes.
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2008, 07:05:03 PM »
But the only "just war" that leftists believe in is the "war against poverty" rolleyes

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Dntsycnt

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Re: The Decider pardons himself for warcrimes.
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2008, 07:12:48 PM »
To clarify, I don't believe the war in Iraq is/was honest, moral, or just.

And to say that we need to torture more and that the only reason NOT to torture is to appear "politically correct" seems pretty ignorant/bloodthirsty to me.

CAnnoneer

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Re: The Decider pardons himself for warcrimes.
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2008, 09:10:48 PM »
Some of you guys seem to buy the hype. GW and the Dems are much closer and chummier than they appear. See his friendship with Slick Willy? They are all part of the same ruling class. All the rhetoric is for the benefit of the riling up the unwashed masses for the next election.

Also, calling GW a dictator is just silly. Congress voted for war and has continuously voted to fund it for five years now.

Finch

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Re: The Decider pardons himself for warcrimes.
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2008, 09:23:42 PM »
I am pretty sure that torturing people, murdering innocent Iraqi people, and lying to the country are illegal and "W" knew they were illegal from the getgo.  What a sad state of affairs when people refuse to see that our president is essentially a dictator.

The people who fail to see how horrible this president truly is are also the ones who believe that they "Hate us for our freedoms". Essentially scared into supporting Bush's trampling of the constitution.
Truth is treason in the empire of lies - Ron Paul

Bigjake

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Re: The Decider pardons himself for warcrimes.
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2008, 03:06:33 AM »
I am pretty sure that torturing people, murdering innocent Iraqi people, and lying to the country are illegal and "W" knew they were illegal from the getgo.  What a sad state of affairs when people refuse to see that our president is essentially a dictator.

The people who fail to see how horrible this president truly is are also the ones who believe that they "Hate us for our freedoms". Essentially scared into supporting Bush's trampling of the constitution.


This is rich.  If HALF of what you paulians say is true,  Bush would've had any bill he wanted on his desk for the signing, John Kerry would be in exile for daring to challenge our "fearless leader" in 04', and Teddy Kennedy would be waterboarded on a daily basis (which wouldn't be a Bad Thing), not hand plucked to co-author Education Bills!!

Oh, and the NYT staff would've been drug out and shot for leaking state secrets (also, not a Bad Thing, Treason, anyone??)

Hell, if you Paulians are correct, I'll punch Dubya's ticket for president for life right now, and he can get one being chummy with Chavez and Castro.

Edited because I don't have complete mastery of the automatic "quote" button

ilbob

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Re: The Decider pardons himself for warcrimes.
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2008, 03:30:01 AM »
Congress voted for war and has continuously voted to fund it for five years now.
The cowardly way in which the left side of the aisle pretends to be against the war but funds every nickle of it says all you need to know. Its just political posturing.

War is ugly. All kinds of things get broken, including laws and moral codes that would normally apply. If you engage in war you must either win or lose. Those are your two choices. There is no middle ground. Congress voted to go to war. They knew the score, and happily went along with it. They also know the bleak consequences of the cut and run approach some are now advocating because the victory is coming slower than one might want.

Get used to it. No matter who is elected (even RP), terror will be with us indefinitely.

BTW, guess who controls congress? Guess who can take this out of the bill? Guess who is also at risk (think Bill - "Bomb the Balkans at Random" Clinton)? Maybe even Hillary. Who knows how much she was involved in some of the shenanigans of that administration.
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HankB

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Re: The Decider pardons himself for warcrimes.
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2008, 03:59:58 AM »
But the only "just war" that leftists believe in is the "war against poverty" rolleyes
No, for a long time the only "just war" has been one in which the US had NO national interest to protect, hence Korea and Vietnam. (Did you know there was actually one leftist in congress that voted AGAINST declaring war on Japan on 12/08/41?!?) That's why the left wishes we had had committed our military to overthrowing the white-majority governments of Rhodesia and South Africa a couple of decades ago, supported our escapade in Somalia and the bombing of Serbia, and would like to see our troops in Darfur today. 
The people who fail to see how horrible this president truly is are also the ones who believe that they "Hate us for our freedoms". Essentially scared into supporting Bush's trampling of the constitution.
Bush sucks . . . though not entirely for the reasons libs assert. The lesser evil is still evil, and a great many people who cast Bush ballots were holding their noses and suppressing their gag reflexes when they did so.

But Algore and/or Kerry would have been worse . . . the only positive thing that may have resulted from those administrations would have been a GOP congress that actually adhered to GOP principles like fiscal responsibility . . . something sadly lacking for the last 7 years.

Finally, note that Bush's approval rating is hovering around 30%, meaning 7 out of 10 people don't like the job he's doing. But that doesn't mean they want a sharp turn to the left - note that the Democrat -controlled Congress has an approval rating that's flirting with single digits. 
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Paddy

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Re: The Decider pardons himself for warcrimes.
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2008, 06:38:29 AM »
Some of you guys seem to buy the hype. GW and the Dems are much closer and chummier than they appear. See his friendship with Slick Willy? They are all part of the same ruling class. All the rhetoric is for the benefit of the riling up the unwashed masses for the next election.

Also, calling GW a dictator is just silly. Congress voted for war and has continuously voted to fund it for five years now.

The end must be near, because CAnnoneer and I completely agree!   shocked

MechAg94

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Re: The Decider pardons himself for warcrimes.
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2008, 08:54:44 AM »
I tend to agree with his sentiment also.  Smiley
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Finch

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Re: The Decider pardons himself for warcrimes.
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2008, 10:40:44 AM »
Finally, note that Bush's approval rating is hovering around 30%, meaning 7 out of 10 people don't like the job he's doing. But that doesn't mean they want a sharp turn to the left - note that the Democrat -controlled Congress has an approval rating that's flirting with single digits. 

That is one of the last things I want. I don't want to go left or right. I want to go in reverse. To times when we didn't arbitrarily invade nations, pull money out of thin air, and use warrants that a judge has never seen. I don't blame Bush as the sole reason for all that ails, but what he is doing is like pouring gasoline on a fire to put it out. He's not helping the situation and is just making it worse.
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Tecumseh

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Re: The Decider pardons himself for warcrimes.
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2008, 06:06:31 PM »
Quote
that torturing people, murdering innocent Iraqi people

That would be one bitchin' prez if he was actually pulling out terrorist's fingernails and whacking Iraqis left and right himself...
 cheesy

Way I see it, we could do with quite a bit more of "torturing" Islamofacists and not worrying so much about looking politically correct and soft. We'd win the war faster, probably.

You do realize that our military is supposed to kill people and break things, right? So using the military for war is "commiting war crimes"?



So all them POWs who were tortured doesnt bother you?  Tell that to McCain.  Have you been tortured?  I seem to remember him speaking about it and saying he opposed it.   So I have to ask why its ok for us to do it, but the enemy not to?

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: The Decider pardons himself for warcrimes.
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2008, 06:09:05 PM »
Quote
that torturing people, murdering innocent Iraqi people

That would be one bitchin' prez if he was actually pulling out terrorist's fingernails and whacking Iraqis left and right himself...
 cheesy

Way I see it, we could do with quite a bit more of "torturing" Islamofacists and not worrying so much about looking politically correct and soft. We'd win the war faster, probably.

You do realize that our military is supposed to kill people and break things, right? So using the military for war is "commiting war crimes"?



So all them POWs who were tortured doesnt bother you?  Tell that to McCain.  Have you been tortured?  I seem to remember him speaking about it and saying he opposed it.   So I have to ask why its ok for us to do it, but the enemy not to?
All what POWs??  Who have we tortured?

Dntsycnt

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Re: The Decider pardons himself for warcrimes.
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2008, 06:36:53 PM »
I think he meant our POWs.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: The Decider pardons himself for warcrimes.
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2008, 06:41:01 PM »
Oh.  I thought he was trying to claim that we were torturing lots of POWs.  I guess even Tecumseh isn't that misguided.  I shouldn't have assumed he was.

Perd Hapley

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Re: The Decider pardons himself for warcrimes.
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2008, 07:53:32 PM »
That's "Deciderer" to you, thank you very much. 
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Boomhauer

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Re: The Decider pardons himself for warcrimes.
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2008, 03:56:18 AM »
Well, no other nation has adhered to the "rules" for POW treatment when holding our people as POWs.

The Japanese sure as hell didn't.
The Vietnamese didn't
The Germans treated our POWs the best, but they still lacked a lot of the "rights"- the Germans pilfiered Red Cross packages, forced marches in the cold w/o adequate clothing, transporting them crammed together in boxcars, etc. Stuff far beyond what we are doing to the terrorists in Gitmo.

Yet, we treated their forces pretty damn well when we captured them. The ARVN, however, would often torture the NVA/VC if we turned them over, and the ROK troops were worse...







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Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

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OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

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