Author Topic: Where they ALL stand on guns.  (Read 6657 times)

SomeKid

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Where they ALL stand on guns.
« on: January 20, 2008, 08:06:34 PM »
I know where most of the candidates stand on gun rights. That said, I figured a list of who is where might not hurt. Even if only for fun. (Might even help some others, who knows.) If you see somewhere I am wrong, correct me. I want to know for sure where everyone stands, so lets have some fun.

Democrats:
Clinton - Supports AWB, against protecting gun makers from suits, against preventing Katrina style confiscations. Safe to say, not our friend.
Obama - Same as Clinton, as well as likely being worse. History in Illinois supposedly wanted to ban everything down to muzzleloaders. (Anyone know for sure?)
Edwards - Same as Clinton?

Republicans:
Paul - Supports 2A for the right reasons. Against protecting gun-makers from lawsuits, excuse was it was unconstitutional. More than likely, he would help us out.
Rudy - Started the whole suing gun-makers craze. Supported AWB. Wants states to pass restrictive laws. Not our friend.
Romney - Supports MA AWB. Calls himself life-long NRA member, joined in 2006 (or so). Resembles another MA fli-flopper, likely about as friendly to us as he was.
McCain - Since saying I wish he had died in Vietnam is not very detailed, we can point to McCain-Fiengold as an attempt to keep gun-owners quiet, but I do not know where he was on the AWB (I think he supported it?) Katrina, or manufacturer protection. Anyone know him a bit better?
Huckabee - Supports CCW, and supposedly has his own license, pro-gun-rights. (I have only heard all of those, anyone know if he actually carries his own gun?)
Thompson - Went to gun shows, supports our rights all the way around. Not perfect, but cares about our constitutional right. Against AWB, for protecting us from confiscations during disasters, for protecting gun-makers. Commented after VA Tech CCW on campus would prevent these crimes.

OK, that is my breakdown. What can you guys add/correct?

Manedwolf

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Re: Where they ALL stand on guns.
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2008, 04:16:22 AM »
Obama is on record as wanting to ban all semiautomatic firearms, and as supporting a national ban on concealed carry for anyone but retired military and police.


Sergeant Bob

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Re: Where they ALL stand on guns.
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2008, 05:23:23 AM »
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McCain - Since saying I wish he had died in Vietnam is not very detailed,

Ya lost me right there. rolleyes
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

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CAnnoneer

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Re: Where they ALL stand on guns.
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2008, 05:25:29 AM »
The problem with the political statements is that usually only very concrete ones count. For example, if a politician says he supports AWB, we know where he is. When he says he supports 2A, we don't know nearly as well, because what he may mean ranges from Heston-like freedom to Kerry-like fake hunter.

Paddy

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Re: Where they ALL stand on guns.
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2008, 05:35:10 AM »
They all suck, both Rep and Dem.  The only way you're going to guarantee RKBA in the long term is to drastically reduce the size of government at all levels.

MechAg94

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Re: Where they ALL stand on guns.
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2008, 09:01:17 AM »
An article in Shotgun News mentioned that McCain traditionally had a good gun rights record, but recently has said he wants to close the "gun show" loop hole.  It was basically saying that Paul, Thompson, and Huckabee were the only ones with fairly clean records on the issue.
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ilbob

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Re: Where they ALL stand on guns.
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2008, 09:09:41 AM »
They all suck, both Rep and Dem.  The only way you're going to guarantee RKBA in the long term is to drastically reduce the size of government at all levels.
Not only the RTKBA owuld be protected. We may focus more on that but a lot of our liberties have been crushed over the years. Restroing them all is going to take a lot of effort.
bob

Disclaimers: I am not a lawyer, cop, soldier, gunsmith, politician, plumber, electrician, or a professional practitioner of many of the other things I comment on in this forum.

Scout26

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Re: Where they ALL stand on guns.
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2008, 10:38:46 AM »
Quote from: RileyMc
The only way you're going to guarantee RKBA in the long term is to drastically reduce the size of government at all levels.

Hey, RileyMc and I agree on one thing.  grin 

Just goes to show that a stopped clock is right twice a day. 

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SomeKid

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Re: Where they ALL stand on guns.
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2008, 02:45:22 PM »
Maned, glad (and sad) to know I was right regarding banning us down to muzzle loaders (or would he leave single shots/bolts/levers?) I  had not been told he would also pass a nationwide ban on CC. He actually got worse. I actually hope Clinton wins the primary. She might be survivable.

Bob, I don't care.

CA, since you mention Kerry, were you talking about Romney? Since he has never done anything for us, and talks about a 2ndA that protects hunters, and signed the MA AWB, I think it is fair to say where he is.

Mech, did the SG article talk about anything other than wanting to close the non-existent loophole? I still want to know exactly where he stands on other issues. Then again, after looking him up, I think I know enough to trust him as much as Kerry. Even Obama is more trustworthy than McFlipper. Check this out, from http://www.ontheissues.org/John_McCain.htm

Quote
    *  I know how to use guns; but I don't own one. (Nov 2007)
    * Prosecute criminals, not citizens for gun ownership. (Sep 2007)
    * Don't hold gun manufacturers liable for crimes. (Sep 2007)
    * Opposes restrictions on assault weapons and ammunition types. (Sep 2007)
    * Ban cheap guns; require safety locks; for gun show checks. (Aug 1999)
    * Supports ban on certain assault weapons. (Aug 1999)
    * Voted against Brady Bill & assault weapon ban. (Aug 1999)
    * Guns are a problem, but so are violent web sites & videos. (Aug 1999)
    * Punish criminals who abuse 2nd Amendment rights. (May 1999)
    * Youth Violence Prevention Act restricts guns for kids. (May 1999)
    * Repeal existing gun restrictions; penalize criminal use. (Jul 1998)
    * Voted YES on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)
    * Voted YES on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence. (Mar 2004)
    * Voted NO on background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
    * Voted YES on more penalties for gun & drug violations. (May 1999)
    * Voted YES on loosening license & background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
    * Voted YES on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks. (Jul 1998)

Like scout, I agree with Riley. Less government = good government = more freedom.

Sergeant Bob

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Re: Where they ALL stand on guns.
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2008, 04:24:52 PM »
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Bob, I don't care.

I have no love for McCain and I would never vote for him for dog catcher but, to wish he had died in Vietnam is very low class.

I absolutely can not stand Kerry, Hillary and a lot of others but I still do not wish them death.
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

I already have canned butter, buying more. Canned blueberries, some pancake making dry goods and the end of the world is gonna be delicious.  -French G

Tecumseh

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Re: Where they ALL stand on guns.
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2008, 05:16:22 PM »
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McCain - Since saying I wish he had died in Vietnam is not very detailed,

Ya lost me right there. rolleyes

Me to.  Maybe it is my Christian upbringing but it doesn't seem morally right to wish death on others.

charby

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Re: Where they ALL stand on guns.
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2008, 06:06:18 PM »
Obama is on record as wanting to ban all semiautomatic firearms, and as supporting a national ban on concealed carry for anyone but retired military and police.



My hunting shotgun is semi-automatic and the new one I am buying this year is semi-automatic also.  I really hope a lot of the folks who think that their hunting firearms will never be taken away need to pay attention.

Also why does he think that being a police officer or in military service makes you better than any other citizen in regards to firearms.

What a jackass...

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trapperready

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Re: Where they ALL stand on guns.
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2008, 06:40:07 PM »
Quote
Christian upbringing

Christian upbringing or not, SomeKid's comment about "Since saying I wish he had died in Vietnam is not very detailed" is one of the most idiotic things I've seen on the Internet... and that's saying a lot.

I disagree with many of the things John McCain has done in the US Senate, but that comment was way, way out of bounds.

CAnnoneer

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Re: Where they ALL stand on guns.
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2008, 08:03:01 PM »
CA, since you mention Kerry, were you talking about Romney? Since he has never done anything for us, and talks about a 2ndA that protects hunters, and signed the MA AWB, I think it is fair to say where he is.

I was making a general statement, but you are right that it is quite applicable to Romney as well. While he is my favorite among the electable candidates (sorry but Thompson and Paul cannot make it) for his economic and social policies, he has no reliable record on 2A.

Manedwolf

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Re: Where they ALL stand on guns.
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2008, 03:41:26 AM »
Obama is on record as wanting to ban all semiautomatic firearms, and as supporting a national ban on concealed carry for anyone but retired military and police.



My hunting shotgun is semi-automatic and the new one I am buying this year is semi-automatic also.  I really hope a lot of the folks who think that their hunting firearms will never be taken away need to pay attention.

Also why does he think that being a police officer or in military service makes you better than any other citizen in regards to firearms.

What a jackass...

-C

It's called being an "elitist". Plus he's a product of Daley's machine, what did you expect? He'd probably put Daley in the cabinet.

SomeKid

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Re: Where they ALL stand on guns.
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2008, 09:20:50 PM »
Maned, I could have gone all day without the image of Hussein Obama as president, and Daley as guy in charge of the ATF. Thanks for that vision friend. Thankfully, Daley likes being King. I don't think he will leave that simply.

Bob, fine we disagree there. We can do that. Succinct to me is low-class to you. At least now that is established.
trapper, I did not swear. Nothing out of bounds to me.

charby, since your average hunter won't pay attention, it will sadly pass. The plus side, is it might cause a massive voter revolt at the next election. Imagine half the hunters in the country going NRA, and being a lockstep voting bloc. Nice dream, isn't it? As to why politicians like cops with guns, I think it is because they like the idea of having a strong and loyal praetorian guard. Keep them loyal by giving them special privs, and who can oppose you?

CA, do you consider Huckabee viable? I ask, because it is my understanding he is at least pro-RKBA. I would like to see confirmation to know what he did as gov that affected us. Even if he is as bad as GWB on everything else, him being pro-us makes him at least less painful to accept.

CAnnoneer

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Re: Where they ALL stand on guns.
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2008, 02:34:57 AM »
CA, do you consider Huckabee viable? I ask, because it is my understanding he is at least pro-RKBA. I would like to see confirmation to know what he did as gov that affected us. Even if he is as bad as GWB on everything else, him being pro-us makes him at least less painful to accept.

In terms of 2A, he is easily best among the viable trio (yes, the three that actually win primaries, not surveys or internet votes). However, IMO, he may be a closet liberal and his stance on illegal alien amnesty until very recently was completely unacceptable. I doubt I can trust him to do what he says, but he is certainly my #2 choice after Romney. If elected, Romney will likely not make things better, but will not let them get worse either, while he is far better on other issues, such as economy and social policy.

SomeKid

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Re: Where they ALL stand on guns.
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2008, 08:52:03 AM »
CA,

I think you are right about Huckabee being a closet liberal, and his immigration stance bugs me to. First and most importantly (for this thread) he is more pro-gun than Romney.

As for Romney being better on fiscal/social issues, I am not so sure. He oversaw the Big Dig scam, for example. As for social policy? Well, I actually agree with the Huck on a few things, such as abortion, and homosexual-whatever-they-want-that-they-do-not-deserve-today. Romney forced homosexual marriage into MA (the MA SC made their ruling sure, but Romney did not have to take such great pains to ensure it was quickly and completely enacted, without attempting to find a way around it). As for abortion, without getting incredibly off topic in my own thread, I have a hard time seeing a man who once thought it was OK to suck the brains out of a child that was nearly at full gestation, make such a rapid - and opportune for his POTUS campaign - conversion. It just smells to me. Now, if you are pro-abortion, Romney looks good on social policy. (And lets face it, for most people, abortion is a major issue in the social policy realm.)

charby

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Re: Where they ALL stand on guns.
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2008, 09:52:04 AM »

charby, since your average hunter won't pay attention, it will sadly pass. The plus side, is it might cause a massive voter revolt at the next election. Imagine half the hunters in the country going NRA, and being a lockstep voting bloc. Nice dream, isn't it? As to why politicians like cops with guns, I think it is because they like the idea of having a strong and loyal praetorian guard. Keep them loyal by giving them special privs, and who can oppose you?

Well someone will probably bring up hunting sniper rifles need to be baned now.

Quote
Cops: Teen Sniper Suspected of Shooting Nebraska Woman at Drive-Through
Tuesday, January 22, 2008


DELL RAPIDS, S.D.    The suspect in the fatal Nebraska shooting of a woman outside a restaurant is a South Dakota native.

Police say Brittany Williams, 21, was shot in the head Sunday night with a high-powered rifle from 100 feet away as she sat in her car in the drive-through lane of a fast-food restaurant, police said.

Kyle Bormann, 19, of Omaha was arrested on suspicion of criminal homicide and use of a gun to commit a felony.

He attended high school in Dell Rapids but transferred during his senior year and graduated in 2006 from Wessington Springs.

Some Dell Rapids residents who knew Bormann were surprised to hear about his arrest. They say he was quiet kid and a good student.

Omaha police said investigators have found nothing to indicate that Bormann knew Williams.

Bormann was arrested at the scene Sunday night shortly after the shooting when police say he drove his car through crime tape at the shooting scene and ran away with a rifle on foot. He was arrested after a brief chase, KPTM.com reports.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,324692,00.html
Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

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Manedwolf

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Re: Where they ALL stand on guns.
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2008, 09:55:01 AM »
Well someone will probably bring up hunting sniper rifles need to be baned now.

Quote
Cops: Teen Sniper Suspected of Shooting Nebraska Woman at Drive-Through
Tuesday, January 22, 2008


DELL RAPIDS, S.D.    The suspect in the fatal Nebraska shooting of a woman outside a restaurant is a South Dakota native.

Police say Brittany Williams, 21, was shot in the head Sunday night with a high-powered rifle from 100 feet away as she sat in her car in the drive-through lane of a fast-food restaurant, police said.

Kyle Bormann, 19, of Omaha was arrested on suspicion of criminal homicide and use of a gun to commit a felony.

He attended high school in Dell Rapids but transferred during his senior year and graduated in 2006 from Wessington Springs.

Some Dell Rapids residents who knew Bormann were surprised to hear about his arrest. They say he was quiet kid and a good student.

Omaha police said investigators have found nothing to indicate that Bormann knew Williams.

Bormann was arrested at the scene Sunday night shortly after the shooting when police say he drove his car through crime tape at the shooting scene and ran away with a rifle on foot. He was arrested after a brief chase, KPTM.com reports.


Media list of favorite words:

"Assault rifle"
"High-powered rifle"
"Lockdown".

CAnnoneer

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Re: Where they ALL stand on guns.
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2008, 05:03:46 PM »
SomeKid,

I agree that Romney is a flipflopper, but it is my perception that he flipped not because he is weak or ideologically confused (e.g. as Huckee is), but because he had to deal with the libtards in MA. As POTUS, he will not need to do those compromises, and so I expect him to behave according to his conservative christian ideological background.

Frankly, it is a bit depressing that I find myself rooting for somebody like Romney, but just look at the freaks in the rest of the line-up. This year will indeed be the year of a most diversified selection of turd sandwiches to choose from.  angry

Sergeant Bob

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Re: Where they ALL stand on guns.
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2008, 05:48:08 PM »
Quote
As for Romney being better on fiscal/social issues, I am not so sure. He oversaw the Big Dig scam, for example.

To say that he oversaw the Big Dig scam is a bit misleading. The dig had been going on for about 15 years before he even took office.
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

I already have canned butter, buying more. Canned blueberries, some pancake making dry goods and the end of the world is gonna be delicious.  -French G

SomeKid

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Re: Where they ALL stand on guns.
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2008, 06:44:14 PM »
Quote
This year will indeed be the year of a most diversified selection of turd sandwiches to choose from.

On this, I sadly agree.

Quote
To say that he oversaw the Big Dig scam is a bit misleading. The dig had been going on for about 15 years before he even took office.

Fair enough. My point is that as far as I know, he did nothing change it. He was happy to let it continue (again, AFAIK).

SteveS

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Re: Where they ALL stand on guns.
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2008, 06:47:48 AM »

Romney - Supports MA AWB. Calls himself life-long NRA member, joined in 2006 (or so). Resembles another MA fli-flopper, likely about as friendly to us as he was.


I thought he referred to himself as a life member, not a life-long member, after he got a life membership.
Profanity is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate mother****er.