Author Topic: Terrorism and NYC bag searches  (Read 1151 times)

mhdishere

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Terrorism and NYC bag searches
« on: July 27, 2005, 04:51:02 AM »
I've been thinking lately (seldom a good sign in itself) about the random bag searches of bags in the NYC subway.  For the record, I live in NJ and commute to NYC daily, I take three different modes of mass transit (NJ Transit train, Path train, and NYC subway) so I'm subject to search three times in each direction, each day.  I haven't been searched yet despite a medium-sized backpack I carry every day.

Some people (myself included) have called for profiling to determine who gets searched, but upon reflection I don't see how this is going to help.  Terrorists may be insane but they're not stupid.  Even if the actual suicide bombers aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer, the guys who give the orders ARE.  9/11 was NOT thrown together overnight, it took an incredible amount of planning and timing.

I actually wouldn't mind bomb-sniffing dogs in the subways even if it meant I got flagged if I went shooting wearing the same jacket as I wore to work.  If the dog reacts to me there's a reason to search me.  This is provided that the ONLY thing they could get you for would be explosives, if some guy is carrying something the dog wouldn't react to but the cops find it when they search it's not admissable.

The problem I see is that once the suicide bomber has his explosives and his orders we've lost that skirmish, he's going to do some damage, somewhere.  If we're serious about being at war on terrorism we have to treat it like a war, so let's look at history and see how we defeated another enemy, Germany in World War II.

We didn't defeat Germany by stopping German soldiers and searching them for weapons.  In reality we didn't even defeat Germany by killing foot soldiers, there's always plenty of "cannon fodder".  We defeated them by destroying their chains of supply and command, we made it impossible for the German soldiers (arguably the best soldiers in the world at the time) to fight effectively.  First we eliminated the fighter planes over Germany not only by shooting the planes down but by bombing the factories that built the planes.  Once the bombers were safe we then went after fuel supplies, munitions plants, gun factories, rail depots, communications centers, etc so the German army couldn't get supplies, couldn't be deployed where they were needed, and couldn't get their orders.

We are NOT going to win the war on terror by stopping individual suicide bombers from getting into the subway.  They'll send 100 in hopes that 10 will actually get to where they want them to be.  We stop terrorists by finding and eliminating their sources of funding.  We find and eliminate the commanders.  We find and eliminate the supply route.  Once all this is done you've got some guy living in an apartment dreaming of 72 virgins but with no explosives, no orders, no nothing.  The worst he could do is build himself a home-made bomb and go off on his own, but that wouldn't have the effect of a co-ordinated attack at multiple points at the same time.

Back to WW II, the heavy bombers levelled the factories, but the spies found out where the factories were.  Intelligence is key to any war, this one especially.  Find out who's calling the shots and "disappear" him.  Find out which truck is driving up the Turnpike with explosives intended for NYC and intercept it.  Eliminate the support that would allow the suicide bombers, or any other front-line terrorist, to wage an effective war against us.

Finally, we have to believe that what we're fighting for is WORTH fighting for.  Next time so dope tells you 9/11 was pay-back for the Crusades point out how very under-represented the US was in the Crusades.  Terrorists don't hate us for what we did, but who we ARE.  Despite her faults there's noplace else in this world I'd rather live than the US.  We talk a lot on these boards about illegal immigration, but how many other countries have so many people who WANT to come there?  What other country has people trying to get there in rafts made of old tires?  Some of these people are free-loaders to be sure, and some are terrorists, but most of them just want to come here, work, and make a better life for themselves just like three of my four grandparents (and the parents of the fourth) did.

OK, I feel better now for writing this.  Thanks for listening.

TarpleyG

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Terrorism and NYC bag searches
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2005, 07:57:52 AM »
Sorry, but this country and its PC nature cannot tolerate a real war.  You think the soccer mommies and tree-huggers are bitching now, wait until we pre-emptively start bombing the piss out of Saudi Arabia.  We have already lost.  The Muslims have what they want...for now.

Greg

Werewolf

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Terrorism and NYC bag searches
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2005, 01:07:00 PM »
Total US casualties in WWII was what - about a quarter million or so.  So for the 45 months the war lasted that works out to 5500/month.

Can anyone imagine that in contemporary US society that the blissninnies would tolerate those casualty rates? The sheep would go into total melt down.
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mhdishere

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Terrorism and NYC bag searches
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2005, 04:08:14 AM »
Sorry TarpleyG and Werewolf, I don't believe this.  The US has always had her share of blissninnies, and has always had more than her share of exceptional people too.  I'd be willing to bet the sheep melted down in WW II, and since I've studied Civil War history a bit I KNOW they did then.  We'll rise to the occasion.

Bear in mind too that while the WOT is an all-out war it's nowhere near the scale of WW II.  My example was strictly for illustration.  We're not fighting a foe who will put thousands of troops in the field in an organized assault.

Standing Wolf

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Terrorism and NYC bag searches
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2005, 06:05:20 PM »
Quote
We didn't defeat Germany by stopping German soldiers and searching them for weapons.  In reality we didn't even defeat Germany by killing foot soldiers, there's always plenty of "cannon fodder".  We defeated them by destroying their chains of supply and command, we made it impossible for the German soldiers (arguably the best soldiers in the world at the time) to fight effectively.
Oh, fine! Go ahead and learn the lessons of history! Share intelligent ideas! Think big all you wantbut we're still going to snoop into people's belongings on subways, because that accustoms the serfs to the idea that they have no privacy, no rights, no business doing anything without government permission.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.