Circuit Breaker Box Replacement Questions

[roo_ster]

Howdy:

I need to replace my circuit breaker box in the near future.  he house was built in 1959 & only few a the outlets are grounded.  
Any advice on which brands of boxes, breakers?  
How about GFCI breakers?
Can you ground from the box?
Is it wise to install a switch between the meter and box, so as to work on the box in the future?
Any other hints?

The circuit breakers in my Federal Pacific Electric panel/box are starting to go bad.  Two just gave up the ghost and two more are on the way out.  The breakers go for ~$40ea.

My electrical engineer PhD/all-around-handyman neighbor squared me away with his last remaining breakers from when he replaced HIS FPE box and got my box up & going, again (loose screws had lead to several breakers not getting power).  He diagnosed the two near-dead breakers.

BTW, FPE breakers and boxes have a bad reputation for failing and catching fire.

[cfabe]

I have also heard the stories about FPE boxes catching fire. Good on you for getting them replaced. I can't really advise as to what is the best brand to use as the replacement, but I can address some of the other questions.

I don't think it's probably worth the cost to install a seperate service disconnect. You can work in a "live" panel with the main breaker switched off safely if you are careful; the only place that remains live is the terminals at the top of the main breaker. If you need to kill power totally for some reason, you can always just pull the meter outside.

On the grounding issue, if you're lucky, your house is already wired with a ground, and just has non-grounding outlets installed. If this is the case you can just install new outlets. More likely is that there is no ground conductor. No easy way to fix this apart from an extensive re-wire. I don't think it would be allowed to just run a new ground wire in the walls, I think you'd have to use new romex.

GFCI breakers are used to provide gound fault protection to an entire circuit, rather than the gfci outlets which can protect one(or more) outlets. They work by measuring the hot and neutral current (think of it as supply and return) and shutting off the power if there is more than a set difference (usually 10-20 mA). This prevents you from getting a shock to ground. You should have gfci protection in any potentially wet areas, such as outside outlets, kitchen and bathroom, basement and garage outlets. You could use a gfci breaker on the circuit to provide this protection, or install a gfci receptacle. The receptacle can provide protection for other devices downstream on the same circuit.

[K Frame]

Square D is pretty much the standard that you can find anywhere.

[41 Redhawk]

GE is pretty common as well

[Waitone]

You might oughta get an inspection done.  Some local codes required certain upgrades when you do some things to your electric system.  While some electrical work is easy and flat out fun to do, other aspects of it are miserable and dangerous if you don't do it right.  Also consider that if you do some work that is not up to code it will have to be brought up to code when or if you sell.

I suggest getting an inspection done by a genuine electrical inspector and let him tell you what you face.

[Leatherneck]

Replacing a service entrance panel is not a trivial job.

The NEC requires that the whole installation be brought up to code during a major renovation like this. Not uncommon to have to replace the old NPE junk--it's been responsible for many fires and failures.

I'd recommend getting bids from two or three electricians for whatever they think needs doing. You're messing with something that can kill you and your family.

TC

[roo_ster]

Thanks for the replies.

A little more information on my part:
The box cannot be replaced where it is (closet).  It will have to be re-located either to the garage or outside the house.  Outside the house (on the other side of the brick) is what I will do or have done, to save stringing wire all over creation.  Also, the FPE box is rated at 60AMPs.  I will replace with a 100AMP or 200AMP box.  This might require a new meter and upgraed service from the pole.  We'll see what the electrician/estimator says.

An inspection was done when I bought the house.  No major structural problems, but the house (built in 1959) did not meet some 2002 codes.  Go figure.  When we do work, we generally bring it up to code.  The major exception is the ungrounded outlets.

A grand total of two outlets are grounded.  We have replaced almost all the outlets as we have remodled/repainted.  We put GFCIs where we thought wise.

Doing it myself:
My first instinct is to pass.  I am pretty handy and can follow instructions, but this is a bit more than I'd like to bite off.  Then my wife went a-calling to local electricians...and got phone estimates running $900-$3000.  I could handle $1000.  I'd probably go as high as $1200.  More than that, I start to get nervous, especially considering I can walk out of Home Depot with a GE 200AMP box (with breakers) for ~$200.  I'm not poor, but hits in excess of $1000 really start to dig into savings.

My neighbor has replaced his box by his lonesome, relocated it, and lived to tell the tale.

My wife's take on it is that if our neighbor wants to help & risk his hide, then she's for it.  I will make a few more calls and get at least one electrician for an on-site estimate ($65 for estimate).

[Leatherneck]

I hear you on the $$$. But remember that box and associated wiring is going to be sitting there forever, and mistakes in wiring tend to have ugly consequences--fire, electrocution and the like. Think of your liability if a DIY job burns the house down while you're away, or electrocutes a kid with undue curiosity, etc. Not trying to be an alarmist; just reminding you of potential BIG consequences of electrical misteaks.

/preacher mode.

If you can find a Sparks who will let you do some of the scut work (pulling wires, mounting new boxes, patching drywall--that sort of thing), then you might be able to save some money. Good luck.