Author Topic: Ron Paul Wins  (Read 26238 times)

Manedwolf

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Re: Ron Paul Wins
« Reply #50 on: March 06, 2008, 04:00:09 AM »
Manedwolf
Quote
He clung to an asinine gold standard suited for the 19th century with clerks and paper, not a world where global cross-currency transactions happen trillions of times per second
And look where global cross currency transactions a trillion times a second is sending the fictional dollar.

You've just proven that you have absolutely no concept of how the global economy works; further discussion is fruitless.

Take Macroeconomics 101 and rejoin the discussion when you're done.

Oh, and be sure not to visit any stores and buy any low-priced item that you'd once have had to have a craftsman make at great expense if you wanted it. Or even any produce out of season in your local area.

MicroBalrog

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Re: Ron Paul Wins
« Reply #51 on: March 06, 2008, 04:23:24 AM »
Manedwolf
Quote
He clung to an asinine gold standard suited for the 19th century with clerks and paper, not a world where global cross-currency transactions happen trillions of times per second
And look where global cross currency transactions a trillion times a second is sending the fictional dollar.

You've just proven that you have absolutely no concept of how the global economy works; further discussion is fruitless.

Take Macroeconomics 101 and rejoin the discussion when you're done.



How does this have anything to do with free banking?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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The Rabbi

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Re: Ron Paul Wins
« Reply #52 on: March 06, 2008, 04:29:02 AM »
Manedwolf
Quote
He clung to an asinine gold standard suited for the 19th century with clerks and paper, not a world where global cross-currency transactions happen trillions of times per second
And look where global cross currency transactions a trillion times a second is sending the fictional dollar.

You've just proven that you have absolutely no concept of how the global economy works; further discussion is fruitless.

Take Macroeconomics 101 and rejoin the discussion when you're done.



How does this have anything to do with free banking?

There's no such thing as free banking.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Ron Paul Wins
« Reply #53 on: March 06, 2008, 04:38:27 AM »
Manedwolf
Quote
He clung to an asinine gold standard suited for the 19th century with clerks and paper, not a world where global cross-currency transactions happen trillions of times per second
And look where global cross currency transactions a trillion times a second is sending the fictional dollar.

You've just proven that you have absolutely no concept of how the global economy works; further discussion is fruitless.

Take Macroeconomics 101 and rejoin the discussion when you're done.



How does this have anything to do with free banking?

There's no such thing as free banking.

I think they're referring to the period of unstable state-chartered idiocy that existed in the US from the 1830's to the late 1860's, in which there was no common currency, "banks" could and did fail and take funds with them with no protection, etc.

I've noticed that a delusion that this was a good thing is common among Paulistinians. Why these people want to live in the 19th century, when the average person was subject to living in squalor and poverty, I have no idea. Perhaps they'd have enjoyed living on a ranch when a railroad baron came along and strongarmed them out of their deed with threats of violence against their family, too. The 19th century was when a new nation had to take time to figure out what worked and what was subject to abuse and failure. And for some reason, Paul's apostles want to return to things that failed and were discontinued because they failed.

The Rabbi

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Re: Ron Paul Wins
« Reply #54 on: March 06, 2008, 04:47:46 AM »
Banking reform seems to be one of the few things that gov't regulation has actually helped.
But for people interested in easy solutions and slogans, it is just easier to ignore facts and history and declare it all treif.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Ron Paul Wins
« Reply #55 on: March 06, 2008, 04:54:47 AM »
Quote
I think they're referring to the period of unstable state-chartered idiocy that existed in the US from the 1830's to the late 1860's, in which there was no common currency, "banks" could and did fail and take funds with them with no protection, etc.

Actually that was far from the only example of free banking known to man, and not all of them had as mixed a record.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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Manedwolf

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Re: Ron Paul Wins
« Reply #56 on: March 06, 2008, 04:58:29 AM »
Quote
I think they're referring to the period of unstable state-chartered idiocy that existed in the US from the 1830's to the late 1860's, in which there was no common currency, "banks" could and did fail and take funds with them with no protection, etc.

Actually that was far from the only example of free banking known to man, and not all of them had as mixed a record.

Name any that did not fail and still exist, and are still in use. Anywhere. Go ahead.


MicroBalrog

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Re: Ron Paul Wins
« Reply #57 on: March 06, 2008, 05:00:54 AM »


Name any that did not fail and still exist, and are still in use. Anywhere. Go ahead.


[/quote]

On this argument, since every nation in the world except the US uses gun registration and licensing, gun rights are bad.

Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Manedwolf

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Re: Ron Paul Wins
« Reply #58 on: March 06, 2008, 05:03:18 AM »


Name any that did not fail and still exist, and are still in use. Anywhere. Go ahead.



On this argument, since every nation in the world except the US uses gun registration and licensing, gun rights are bad.


[/quote]

FAIL.

And really weak red herring, too.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Ron Paul Wins
« Reply #59 on: March 06, 2008, 05:03:29 AM »
that seems a might evasive  should we interpret it as an admission you can't even name one?

MicroBalrog

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Re: Ron Paul Wins
« Reply #60 on: March 06, 2008, 05:08:31 AM »
that seems a might evasive  should we interpret it as an admission you can't even name one?

We know that free banking has been abolished in all five countries where it was tried, however, this does not mean it was done because it brought to supposed crashes every single time, because in three out of five cases there were no such crashes, and in the US, it's record has been very mixed (quite like the record of America's gold- and silver-standard, responsible for at least one depression in the end of the 19th century, and the fiat money system, responsible for stagflation).

There's a lot of nice stuff that everybody does, but I, and others, disagree with.

More importantly, there's a variety of qualified economists who argue for free banking today. Not everybody that disagrees with you, even if they disagree radically, is a cook.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Manedwolf

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Re: Ron Paul Wins
« Reply #61 on: March 06, 2008, 05:11:12 AM »
We know that free banking has been abolished in all five countries where it was tried, however, this does not mean it was done because it brought to supposed crashes every single time

Uh-huh.  rolleyes

The definition of madness is to repeat the same action, expecting different results. Sure, who needs an FDIC? You give me your money as a bank. When you try to get it back, I say "What money?" You can do...what about that? Throw a tantrum? File a charge with...oops...nope, it's not a government-insured-and-regulated bank, you can't do that. Oh, yeah, and the notes I issued you are worthless now, too, due to a credit downgrade. Oops!




MicroBalrog

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Re: Ron Paul Wins
« Reply #62 on: March 06, 2008, 05:12:47 AM »

The definition of madness is to repeat the same action, expecting different results.


Just because every nation does it, doesn't mean it's right.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Manedwolf

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Re: Ron Paul Wins
« Reply #63 on: March 06, 2008, 05:16:05 AM »

The definition of madness is to repeat the same action, expecting different results.


Just because every nation does it, doesn't mean it's right.

So you're in favor of a system that five nations tried and five nations abolished because it failed. Back in the 19th century, for the most part, when the global economy was in its first stage of fits and starts, learning what worked and what was a terrible mistake.

Right.

See why I think of Paul's apostles like I do? There's this freakish romanticism about the 19th century being the glory days in its business practices, when it was more like a pack of vicious wild animals fighting under the table.


MicroBalrog

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Re: Ron Paul Wins
« Reply #64 on: March 06, 2008, 05:18:51 AM »



So you're in favor of a system that five nations tried and five nations abolished because it failed.

Actually, 'because it failed' is not something I said. THere's a variety of modern economic research into what went all, and it's far from agreement on the negativity of its experience.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

LAK

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Re: Ron Paul Wins
« Reply #65 on: March 06, 2008, 05:49:16 AM »
Manedwolf
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You've just proven that you have absolutely no concept of how the global economy works; further discussion is fruitless.

Take Macroeconomics 101 and rejoin the discussion when you're done.
Macroeconomics according to who? The London School of Economics?

Let's recap why we [supposedly] broke away from those people;
Quote
"America became the greatest, most prosperous nation in history through low taxes, constitutionally limited government, personal freedom and a belief in sound money... " - Ron Paul, Forbes 03/04/08

The global economy? Before you inflate yourself further; the only difference between you and I in regard to understanding how it works is that you seem to think that the current artificial, controlled and manpulated system - at the expense of most people in this country - is somehow a good thing.

Quote
Oh, and be sure not to visit any stores and buy any low-priced item that you'd once have had to have a craftsman make at great expense if you wanted it. Or even any produce out of season in your local area.
There is a law of averages in the field of durable goods; it is generally a case of you get what you pay for.

You can buy a cheap tool; risk ruining the part you are fitting/adjusting, and/or the tool breaking or wearing out quickly and needing replacing a number of times. Or you can buy a quality tool at a higher price that will not, with proper use, damage your task item, and is very unlikely to break before your children die of old age.

You can buy a cheap home audio system - if you don't mind throwing it into a dumpster when part of it stops working because it is uneconomical to repair - and buying a new one at a higher price - because a declining dollar means imported goods have a way of climbing in price.

Filling the nation's stores with cheap imported junk is not the foundation for anything except alot of waste. Even some once reliable brands of goods (which despite their foreign production are still very pricey) have become junk in many cases. And the prices of everything are climbing because an inflated ficticious dollar buys less oil - affecting everything.

No one is going to undergo any hardship because they can not buy some particular item of produce out of season. There is not any kind of imported produce that we either can not live without or produce ourselves.

There are things far more important to most people. Like how much per hour do they get paid, and how much money can they put away after all their bills are paid. And how many of them can expect to own their own homes - all paid up, and be financially self sufficient by the time they retire.

Please name something manufactured that can not be made cheaper elsewhere in the world; a nation of c.300 million people can not all be either a hamburger flipper or a company CEO.
Quote
See why I think of Paul's apostles like I do? There's this freakish romanticism about the 19th century being the glory days in its business practices, when it was more like a pack of vicious wild animals fighting under the table.
That's an astounding observation; it pretends that somehow all these global commercial producers, traders and investors etc have been taking merely what has been given to them for the last half century. Just what do you think all the vicious fighting and murder has been about in Africa, South America, the Mid East, Indonesia etc since WW2?

MicroBalrog

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Re: Ron Paul Wins
« Reply #66 on: March 06, 2008, 05:54:17 AM »
I wish it to be known, for the record, that I do not share LAK's views on the matter, despite supporting the same political candidate.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

LAK

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Re: Ron Paul Wins
« Reply #67 on: March 06, 2008, 06:11:35 AM »
Just for the record, I wish it to be made known that I do not share all of your views either - even though I support the same candidate. Just for the record ya know.

Manedwolf
Quote
Perhaps they'd have enjoyed living on a ranch when a railroad baron came along and strongarmed them out of their deed with threats of violence against their family, too
The more I browse your writings, the more I am astounded.

Do you really not know how many people have been strongarmed out of their property under various pretenses in recent history in this country? Emminent domain style? Civil forfeiture?

If the trans-Texas corridor project goes through are they going to make it a tunnel or something spanning Texas underground? What about the rest of the North American super highways connecting our dear free-trading friends to the south with Canada to the north?

The poverty and squallor (squallor?) of the 1880s was not any worse than it was during the depression of the 1930s. I would say it was far less so, and nothing like what it will be in this country when the dollar takes it's coming slide to the sea bed.

Manedwolf

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Re: Ron Paul Wins
« Reply #68 on: March 06, 2008, 06:23:39 AM »
The global economy? Before you inflate yourself further; the only difference between you and I in regard to understanding how it works is that you seem to think that the current artificial, controlled and manpulated system - at the expense of most people in this country - is somehow a good thing.

ILLUMINATI ALERT! cheesy  Stopping reading right there. Your tinfoil hat is too tight, dude.


LAK

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Re: Ron Paul Wins
« Reply #69 on: March 06, 2008, 09:54:51 PM »
Not even a good dodge. The signs of the impending economic train wreck are unndeniable. Perhaps like myself, you are not dependant on the system to get by when things get tough. Perhaps many people you know, maybe even some family are not so lucky. You and a few other folk won't be so smug then.

Enjoy the ride while it lasts.  grin

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The Rabbi

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Re: Ron Paul Wins
« Reply #70 on: March 07, 2008, 03:24:51 AM »
Not even a good dodge. The signs of the impending economic train wreck are unndeniable. Perhaps like myself, you are not dependant on the system to get by when things get tough. Perhaps many people you know, maybe even some family are not so lucky. You and a few other folk won't be so smug then.

Enjoy the ride while it lasts.  grin

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Economic train wreck?  No, I dont think so.  Recession yes, unmistakable and long over due.  Its the business cycle.
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HankB

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Re: Ron Paul Wins
« Reply #71 on: March 07, 2008, 03:41:44 AM »
. . . You give me your money as a bank. When you try to get it back, I say "What money?" You can do...what about that? Throw a tantrum? File a charge with...oops...nope, it's not a government-insured-and-regulated bank, you can't do that.
Necktie party?

Cement overshoes?

Stake and a pile of kindling?

Satisfaction gained, but the money would still be gone . . .  sad

Maybe we should think long and hard before replacing our crappy system with one that may be worse.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Ron Paul Wins
« Reply #72 on: March 07, 2008, 08:48:18 AM »
It's basically over.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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WeedWhacker

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Re: Ron Paul Wins
« Reply #73 on: March 07, 2008, 01:07:34 PM »
"The presidential campaign will soon wind down, but we do still encourage all effort to gain the maximum number of votes and delegates in all the remaining primaries and to continue the caucus process that's ongoing in the other states by loyal volunteers."

... which is what I've been saying is the goal, and the only thing left to do, for those of us who say McCain is simply unacceptable.
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LAK

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Re: Ron Paul Wins
« Reply #74 on: March 07, 2008, 02:21:00 PM »
The Rabbi,

Quote
The federal government's total liabilities and unfunded commitments for future payments related to Social Security and Medicare are now estimated at $53 trillion, in current dollar terms, up from $20 trillion in 2, Walker said

http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/1207/121707cdpm1.htm

Quote
The Outstanding Public Debt as of 08 Mar 2008 at 12:15:16 AM GMT is:

$9,396,876,372,949.77

The estimated population of the United States is 303,581,359
so each citizen's share of this debt is $30,953.40.

The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
$1.70 billion per day since September 29, 2006!

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

.......... The "business cycle and a "recession"? Someones' dreaming.

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