Author Topic: I Voted Ron Paul & Need a Shower (Or a Stiff Drink)  (Read 10224 times)

WeedWhacker

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Re: I Voted Ron Paul & Need a Shower (Or a Stiff Drink)
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2008, 12:45:31 PM »
Exactly.
So yammering on about "republic" vs "constitutional republic" is pretty darn meaningless here.  The parties decide how they want to run things.  And the party is not going to decide to make Ron Paul their standard bearer as he has proven himself a loser.

You seem to be intentionally missing the point I have repeatedly made: the GOP delegates are the ones who nominate the GOP candidate, and the delegates will decide who that candidate is in September.

Those GOP delegates are normal Joe Sixpacks, like myself, who have been elected through the primary/caucus process.

The only reason I persist in attempting to shove these points clearly into the open is because there are other Joe Sixpacks out there who have been elected as delegates and who, since no one tells the delegates anything useful, if they still have any interest in anyone other than McCain, might need a little poke with enough information to whet their interest enough for them to verify it for themselves and continue participating in the process.
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Balog

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Re: I Voted Ron Paul & Need a Shower (Or a Stiff Drink)
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2008, 01:12:19 PM »
Dude, we get how the process works. We really do. We all agree it's not technically impossible. But neither is that crappy little VT town actually arresting Bush/Cheney. Still not gonna happen.

What many RP supporters don't seem to realize is that endless frantic raving in support of an obviously lost cause just hurts their little Ross Perot looking Messiah. People don't think "Hey that could work!" They think what we do; that anyone so clearly disconnected from reality impugns their candidate by their very support.
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Re: I Voted Ron Paul & Need a Shower (Or a Stiff Drink)
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2008, 02:11:19 PM »
Exactly.
So yammering on about "republic" vs "constitutional republic" is pretty darn meaningless here.  The parties decide how they want to run things.  And the party is not going to decide to make Ron Paul their standard bearer as he has proven himself a loser.

You seem to be intentionally missing the point I have repeatedly made: the GOP delegates are the ones who nominate the GOP candidate, and the delegates will decide who that candidate is in September.

Those GOP delegates are normal Joe Sixpacks, like myself, who have been elected through the primary/caucus process.

The only reason I persist in attempting to shove these points clearly into the open is because there are other Joe Sixpacks out there who have been elected as delegates and who, since no one tells the delegates anything useful, if they still have any interest in anyone other than McCain, might need a little poke with enough information to whet their interest enough for them to verify it for themselves and continue participating in the process.

Right.
And the idea that the GOP delegates are going to vote against the candidate who won the most votes cast by GOP voters is as ludicrous as..as..as....Ron Paul's positions. And it dont get worse than that.
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WeedWhacker

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Re: I Voted Ron Paul & Need a Shower (Or a Stiff Drink)
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2008, 02:35:27 PM »
We all agree it's not technically impossible.

You seem to have skipped reading the posts I have been responding directly to by Mike Irwin, Rabbi, and a few others who have adamantly stated that anyone other than McCain getting the GOP nomination is flat out impossible, which is completely false. "Improbable" does NOT equal "impossible".


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And the idea that the GOP delegates are going to vote against the candidate who won the most votes cast by GOP voters is as ludicrous as..as..as....Ron Paul's positions. And it dont get worse than that.

Firstly, you demonstrate continuing ignorance of the point I have been making as clear as I possibly can, and so I can only assume you are doing the online equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and yelling "la la la, I can't hear you!!" Repeat after me: in some/many/most states, elected delegates make up their own minds about whom to support for the GOP nomination.

Then I repeat a c-r-y-s-t-a-l clear example: Nevada gave ~51% of the straw poll vote to Romney (who has endorsed McCain). Delegates are in no way - legal, party rules, morally, or otherwise - required to abide by the results of the official straw poll, because it was a straw poll and had no bearing whatsoever on the election of delegates; I know, because I was sitting right in the middle of both. If I has been told otherwise, I would have responsed by saying, "get bent, I quit", as I cannot bring myself to show support for McCain even in the slightest way.

In short, Rabbi, you are wrong. That fact does not change the matter that anyone other than McCain winning the GOP nomination is improbable, but repeat after me: "Improbable" does NOT equal "impossible".

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Re: I Voted Ron Paul & Need a Shower (Or a Stiff Drink)
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2008, 02:45:03 PM »
Quote
elected delegates make up their own minds about whom to support for the GOP nomination.

OK, then list the times they've countermanded the will of the people (who voted in the primaries) and nominated someone else.

Go ahead.

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Re: I Voted Ron Paul & Need a Shower (Or a Stiff Drink)
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2008, 03:38:25 PM »
We all agree it's not technically impossible.

You seem to have skipped reading the posts I have been responding directly to by Mike Irwin, Rabbi, and a few others who have adamantly stated that anyone other than McCain getting the GOP nomination is flat out impossible, which is completely false. "Improbable" does NOT equal "impossible".


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And the idea that the GOP delegates are going to vote against the candidate who won the most votes cast by GOP voters is as ludicrous as..as..as....Ron Paul's positions. And it dont get worse than that.

Firstly, you demonstrate continuing ignorance of the point I have been making as clear as I possibly can, and so I can only assume you are doing the online equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and yelling "la la la, I can't hear you!!" Repeat after me: in some/many/most states, elected delegates make up their own minds about whom to support for the GOP nomination.

Then I repeat a c-r-y-s-t-a-l clear example: Nevada gave ~51% of the straw poll vote to Romney (who has endorsed McCain). Delegates are in no way - legal, party rules, morally, or otherwise - required to abide by the results of the official straw poll, because it was a straw poll and had no bearing whatsoever on the election of delegates; I know, because I was sitting right in the middle of both. If I has been told otherwise, I would have responsed by saying, "get bent, I quit", as I cannot bring myself to show support for McCain even in the slightest way.

In short, Rabbi, you are wrong. That fact does not change the matter that anyone other than McCain winning the GOP nomination is improbable, but repeat after me: "Improbable" does NOT equal "impossible".



No, impossible is impossible.
It is impossible that Ron Paul will get the nomination.  Maybe not physically impossible but politically impossible.
And if anyone has his fingers in his ears (or other places) it is you spreading this ass-hattery around.  Ron Paul never had a chance from day one.  Look back on all the old threads dealing with this ad nauseam.  His supporters never recognized the reality.  And judging from your posts they still dont.
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johnster999

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Re: I Voted Ron Paul & Need a Shower (Or a Stiff Drink)
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2008, 08:39:38 PM »
I say let the Paul people keep clinging to fantasy if it makes them happy.

Paddy

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Re: I Voted Ron Paul & Need a Shower (Or a Stiff Drink)
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2008, 08:42:56 PM »
I say let the Paul people keep clinging to fantasy if it makes them happy.

And you hang on to that McCain fantasy.  It will help repel the inevitable.  laugh

johnster999

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Re: I Voted Ron Paul & Need a Shower (Or a Stiff Drink)
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2008, 08:52:34 PM »
And you hang on to that McCain fantasy.  It will help repel the inevitable.  laugh

Nah, no McCain in my fantasies. I think he has a good shot at finding his way into the presidency, though.

K Frame

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Re: I Voted Ron Paul & Need a Shower (Or a Stiff Drink)
« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2008, 08:46:47 AM »
"You seem to have skipped reading the posts I have been responding directly to by Mike Irwin, Rabbi, and a few others who have adamantly stated that anyone other than McCain getting the GOP nomination is flat out impossible, which is completely false. "Improbable" does NOT equal "impossible"."

Uh, you may want to go back and actually read what I said when I closed that thread, Mr. Whacker.

It is NOT as you have categorized it.

What I said is that McCain has sewn up the nomination -- that's a factual statement as of this time based on pledged delegates.

I have NOT, in any way, shape, or form, "adamantly stated" that it is impossible for someone else to gain the nomination.

Of course it's possible.

McCain could die. He could be become incapacitated. He could be linked to something so heinous that his pledged delegates flee him. Any number of things could happen.

What I DID say, however, is that Ron Paul is history when it comes to presidential aspirations.

Even were McCain to be removed suddenly and the nomination have to go to the Republican convention, it's utter and complete fantasy to think that Ron Paul has even the remotest chance of gaining the party's nomination.

It's more likely that a space alien named GLARR'D!FUX will probe Mr. Paul, find him tasty, and serve him up as sushi before he gains the Republican nomination.
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Re: I Voted Ron Paul & Need a Shower (Or a Stiff Drink)
« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2008, 09:04:47 AM »

It's more likely that a space alien named GLARR'D!FUX will probe Mr. Paul, find him tasty, and serve him up as sushi before he gains the Republican nomination.

We can only hope.
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keeleon

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Re: I Voted Ron Paul & Need a Shower (Or a Stiff Drink)
« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2008, 11:55:00 AM »
Ok, this still bugs the crap out of me and I would love a real answer.  Why do we have a system based on voting for people to vote for the people that we vote for?  It seems to me that the easiest way to do it would be to just add up the popular vote and use that number to decide.  And for that matter, why do we waste time with the primaries?  Why don't we just say, "OK, here's the people that want to be president, pick one"?  I am so sick of our government being stupid and wasting our tax dollars and then complaining that we don't have enough money when THEY waste it on the stupidest things.  The way the system is set up currently, really does mean that none of our votes count (except maybe Whacker's apparently).

WeedWhacker

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Re: I Voted Ron Paul & Need a Shower (Or a Stiff Drink)
« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2008, 12:51:56 PM »
Ok, this still bugs the crap out of me and I would love a real answer.  Why do we have a system based on voting for people to vote for the people that we vote for?  It seems to me that the easiest way to do it would be to just add up the popular vote and use that number to decide.  And for that matter, why do we waste time with the primaries?  Why don't we just say, "OK, here's the people that want to be president, pick one"?  I am so sick of our government being stupid and wasting our tax dollars and then complaining that we don't have enough money when THEY waste it on the stupidest things.  The way the system is set up currently, really does mean that none of our votes count (except maybe Whacker's apparently).

First of all, that question should probably be in a new thread. Secondly, the junk the APS curmudgeons and myself have been going back and forth over involve political parties and their own rules.

Brief answers to your questions could include the following: the original Founders were well aware that pure democracies utterly fail when people discover they can vote themselves money from the public dole, and so explicitly set up a representative republic to avoid a direct democracy; political parties were frowned on from the beginning, even though the use of them commenced almost immediately; the individual states have their own ways of running party elections, so you'll have to take up the specifics you disagree with with those specific states.
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keeleon

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Re: I Voted Ron Paul & Need a Shower (Or a Stiff Drink)
« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2008, 01:01:36 PM »
Quote
the junk the APS curmudgeons and myself have been going back and forth over involve political parties and their own rules.

Well that is a completely different gripe I have as well.  The political parties are technically not part of the government, correct?  Which is why they get to make there own rules as far as how they elect people.  Why is it that my tax dollars go to pay for them to "decide" who they want to nominate?  Do they pay for the complete electoral process involved in the primaries?  What if my "private company" wanted to do a "poll" of how many people liked bacon, am I able to just put it on a ballot?  Why have the "Republicans" and "Democrats" been allowed to achieve such a "spiritual" level in the eyes of the nation that there is no other option?  It just bothers me that it is so black and white and there is no way to change it.

K Frame

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Re: I Voted Ron Paul & Need a Shower (Or a Stiff Drink)
« Reply #39 on: March 07, 2008, 07:48:06 PM »
"Why is it that my tax dollars go to pay for them to "decide" who they want to nominate?"

Beg your pardon?

Political parties, and their activities, are funded by their members and supporters.

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keeleon

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Re: I Voted Ron Paul & Need a Shower (Or a Stiff Drink)
« Reply #40 on: March 07, 2008, 08:05:49 PM »
I know the campaigning funds are provided by them, but I have been a poll worker before, and I have gotten paid for it.  I also know that there is a lot of money that goes into holding a vote.  Do the parties fund all of that as well?  If so then I will concede they can do what they want, but I am certain there is a LOT of money that is put forth by the governement to get these things decided.

K Frame

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Re: I Voted Ron Paul & Need a Shower (Or a Stiff Drink)
« Reply #41 on: March 07, 2008, 09:06:37 PM »
No, the holding elections is part of the process laid out in the US Constitution.

It's a function of government, therefore is paid for by government.

Selection of candidates, and the entire candidate selection process, is NOT a Constitutional process, and is therefore paid fro by the parties.
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keeleon

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Re: I Voted Ron Paul & Need a Shower (Or a Stiff Drink)
« Reply #42 on: March 08, 2008, 05:16:41 AM »
Quote
Selection of candidates, and the entire candidate selection process, is NOT a Constitutional process, and is therefore paid fro by the parties.

Oh, so the parties actually pay for the primary process themselves?  I never knew that, and that fors make me feel a little better about it.  I always just assumed that because my check came fro ma gov account when I worked the polls, it was the gov paying for it.

K Frame

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Re: I Voted Ron Paul & Need a Shower (Or a Stiff Drink)
« Reply #43 on: March 08, 2008, 06:48:24 AM »
No, I didn't explain that very well.

The election process itself is paid for by the state/local governments where it comes to printing ballots, conducting the elections, etc. It's part of the voting process.

The parties/candidates pay for campaigning.

There's a really interesting thing gearing up in Florida and Michigan right now. Because the state party moved the dates of the primaries against the DNC's wishes, the DNC told the state party that their delegates would not count in the process to select a candidate.

But, no one expected thing to be as close as they are, so now they're looking at possible "do over" elections in those two states.

But, the question is, especially in Florida where there's a Republican governor, who is going to pay for a second election? The Gov. isn't all that crazy about spending the money to go through it twice when it was the state Democratic party's fault as to why the delegates didn't count in the first place.

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MrRezister

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Re: I Voted Ron Paul & Need a Shower (Or a Stiff Drink)
« Reply #44 on: March 08, 2008, 08:51:40 AM »
I heard Jeb talking about that and he said that if the DNC was determined to have another primary vote, the party would need to foot the bill.  It seems redundant when they already know the results of the last vote, I wonder how far they expect the new vote to differ from the old one, and how much of a horrible fight would it be if Obama won the redux?  Interesting times indeed.
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Bigjake

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Re: I Voted Ron Paul & Need a Shower (Or a Stiff Drink)
« Reply #45 on: March 08, 2008, 08:54:23 AM »
Go for it, Soros can afford it.

K Frame

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Re: I Voted Ron Paul & Need a Shower (Or a Stiff Drink)
« Reply #46 on: March 08, 2008, 10:56:09 AM »
I heard Jeb talking about that and he said that if the DNC was determined to have another primary vote, the party would need to foot the bill.  It seems redundant when they already know the results of the last vote, I wonder how far they expect the new vote to differ from the old one, and how much of a horrible fight would it be if Obama won the redux?  Interesting times indeed.

Jeb ain't gov. in Florida no mo...


The thinking is that at the time of the last vote Hillary was still considered to be the front runner but things have changed dramatically. Then there's the fact that neither candidate really spent any time in Florida because at the time of the vote the delegates had already been disqualified.
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Scout26

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Re: I Voted Ron Paul & Need a Shower (Or a Stiff Drink)
« Reply #47 on: March 10, 2008, 01:17:15 PM »
Given what has happened in Florida in past IRT the Democrat vote.  "Giving it a miss" this year was generally considered to be a good thing.  grin cheesy
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