Author Topic: Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair  (Read 12971 times)

MechAg94

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Re: Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2008, 08:05:03 AM »
Why don't y'all post the bill and the relevant sections instead of insisting that everyone else do all the searching? 
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2008, 08:34:10 AM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Immigration_Reform_Act_of_2007 
here you go  maybe you can find the part they refer to

Desertdog

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Re: Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2008, 09:04:08 AM »
Quote
Why don't y'all post the bill and the relevant sections instead of insisting that everyone else do all the searching? 

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c110:1:./temp/~c110OylruM:e536376:

`SEC. 245B. ACCESS TO EARNED ADJUSTMENT.

`(a) Adjustment of Status-

`(1) PRINCIPAL ALIENS- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, including section 244(h) of this Act, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall adjust to the status of an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence, an alien who satisfies the following requirements:

`(A) APPLICATION- The alien shall file an application establishing eligibility for adjustment of status and pay the fine required under subsection (m) and any additional amounts owed under that subsection.

`(B) CONTINUOUS PHYSICAL PRESENCE-

`(i) IN GENERAL- The alien shall establish that the alien--

`(I) was physically present in the United States on or before the date that is 5 years before April 5, 2006;

`(II) was not legally present in the United States on April 5, 2006, under any classification set forth in section 101(a)(15); and

`(III) did not depart from the United States during the 5-year period ending on April 5, 2006, except for brief, casual, and innocent departures.

`(ii) LEGALLY PRESENT- For purposes of this subparagraph, an alien who has violated any conditions of his or her visa shall be considered not to be legally present in the United States.

`(C) ADMISSIBLE UNDER IMMIGRATION LAWS- The alien shall establish that the alien is not inadmissible under section 212(a) except for any provision of that section that is waived under subsection (b) of this section.

`(D) EMPLOYMENT IN UNITED STATES-

`(i) IN GENERAL- The alien shall have been employed in the United States, in the aggregate, for--

`(I) at least 3 years during the 5-year period ending on April 5, 2006; and

`(II) at least 6 years after the date of enactment of the Immigrant Accountability Act of 2007.

`(ii) EXCEPTIONS-

`(I) The employment requirement in clause (i)(I) shall not apply to an individual who is under 20 years of age on the date of enactment of the Immigrant Accountability Act of 2007.

`(II) The employment requirement in clause (i)(II) shall be reduced for an individual who cannot demonstrate employment based on a physical or mental disability or as a result of pregnancy.

`(III) The employment requirement in clause (i)(II) shall be reduced for an individual who is under 20 years of age on the date of enactment of the Immigrant Accountability Act of 2007 by a period of time equal to the time period beginning on such date of enactment and ending on the date on which the individual reaches 20 years of age.

`(IV) The employment requirements in clause (i) shall be reduced by 1 year for each year of full time post-secondary study in the United States during the relevant period.

`(V) The employment requirement under clause (i)(I) shall not apply to any individual who is 65 years of age or older on the date of the enactment of the Immigrant Accountability Act of 2007.

`(iii) PORTABILITY- An alien shall not be required to complete the employment requirements in clause (i) with the same employer.

`(iv) EVIDENCE OF EMPLOYMENT-

`(I) CONCLUSIVE DOCUMENTS- For purposes of satisfying the requirements in clause (i), the alien shall submit at least 2 of the following documents for each period of employment, which shall be considered conclusive evidence of such employment:
`(aa) Records maintained by the Social Security Administration.

`(bb) Records maintained by an employer, such as pay stubs, time sheets, or employment work verification.

`(cc) Records maintained by the Internal Revenue Service.

`(dd) Records maintained by a union or day labor center.

`(ee) Records maintained by any other government agency, such as worker compensation records, disability records, or business licensing records.


`(II) OTHER DOCUMENTS- An alien who is unable to submit a document described in subclause (I) may satisfy the requirement in clause (i) by submitting to the Secretary at least 2 other types of reliable documents that provide evidence of employment for each required period of employment, including--
`(aa) bank records;

`(bb) business records;

`(cc) sworn affidavits from non-relatives who have direct knowledge of the alien's work, including the name, address, and phone number of the affiant, the nature and duration of the relationship between the affiant and the alien, and other verification information; or

`(dd) remittance records.


`(v) BURDEN OF PROOF- An alien applying for adjustment of status under this subsection has the burden of proving by a preponderance of the evidence that the alien has satisfied the employment requirements in clause (i). Once the burden is met, the burden shall shift to the Secretary of Homeland Security to disprove the alien's evidence with a showing which negates the reasonableness of the inference to be drawn from the evidence.

`(E) PAYMENT OF INCOME TAXES-

`(i) IN GENERAL- Not later than the date on which status is adjusted under this section, the alien establishes the payment of any applicable Federal tax liability by establishing that--

`(I) no such tax liability exists;

`(II) all outstanding liabilities have been paid; or

`(III) the alien has entered into an agreement for payment of all outstanding liabilities with the Internal Revenue Service.

`(ii) APPLICABLE FEDERAL TAX LIABILITY- For purposes of clause (i), the term `applicable Federal tax liability' means liability for Federal taxes, including penalties and interest, owed for any year during the period of employment required by subparagraph (D)(i) for which the statutory period for assessment of any deficiency for such taxes has not expired.

`(iii) IRS COOPERATION- The Secretary of the Treasury shall establish rules and procedures under which the Commissioner of Internal Revenue shall provide documentation to an alien upon request to establish the payment of all taxes required by this subparagraph.

`(iv) IN GENERAL- The alien may satisfy such requirement by establishing that--

`(I) no such tax liability exists;

`(II) all outstanding liabilities have been met; or

`(III) the alien has entered into an agreement for payment of all outstanding liabilities with the Internal Revenue Service and with the department of revenue of each State to which taxes are owed.

`(v) LIMITATION- Provided further that an alien required to pay taxes under this subparagraph, or who otherwise satisfies the requirements of clause (i), shall not be allowed to collect any tax refund for any taxable year before 2006, or to file any claim for the Earned Income Tax Credit, or any other tax credit otherwise allowable under the tax code, prior to such taxable year.

`(F) BASIC CITIZENSHIP SKILLS-

`(i) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in clause (ii), the alien shall demonstrate that the alien meets the requirements of section 312(a) (relating to English proficiency and understanding of United States history and Government).

`(ii) EXCEPTIONS-

`(I) MANDATORY- The requirements of clause (i) shall not apply to any person who is unable to comply with those requirements because of a physical or developmental disability or mental impairment.

`(II) DISCRETIONARY- The Secretary of Homeland Security may waive all or part of the requirements of clause (i) in the case of an alien who is 65 years of age or older as of the date of the filing of the application for adjustment of status.

`(G) SECURITY AND LAW ENFORCEMENT CLEARANCES- The alien shall submit fingerprints in accordance with procedures established by the Secretary of Homeland Security. Such fingerprints shall be submitted to relevant Federal agencies to be checked against existing databases for information relating to criminal, national security, or other law enforcement actions that would render the alien ineligible for adjustment of status under this subsection. The relevant Federal agencies shall work to ensure that such clearances are completed within 90 days of the submission of fingerprints. An appeal of a security clearance determination by the Secretary of Homeland Security shall be processed through the Department of Homeland Security.

`(H) MILITARY SELECTIVE SERVICE- The alien shall establish that if the alien is within the age period required under the Military Selective Service Act (50 U.S.C. App. 451 et seq.) that such alien has registered under that Act.

`(I) ADJUSTMENT OF STATUS- The Secretary may not adjust the status of an alien under this section to that of lawful permanent resident until the Secretary determines that the priority dates have become current for the class of aliens whose family-based or employment-based petitions for permanent residence were pending on the date of the enactment of the Immigrant Accountability Act of 2007.

`(2) SPOUSES AND CHILDREN-

`(A) IN GENERAL-

`(i) ADJUSTMENT OF STATUS- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall, if otherwise eligible under subparagraph (B), adjust the status to that of a lawful permanent resident for--

`(I) the spouse, or child who was under 21 years of age on the date of enactment of the Immigrant Accountability Act of 2007, of an alien who adjusts status or is eligible to adjust status to that of a permanent resident under paragraph (1); or

`(II) an alien who, within 5 years preceding the date of enactment of the Immigrant Accountability Act of 2007, was the spouse or child of an alien who adjusts status to that of a permanent resident under paragraph (1), if--
`(aa) the termination of the qualifying relationship was connected to domestic violence; or

`(bb) the spouse or child has been battered or subjected to extreme cruelty by the spouse or parent who adjusts status or is eligible to adjust status to that of a permanent resident under paragraph (1).


`(ii) APPLICATION OF OTHER LAW- In acting on applications filed under this paragraph with respect to aliens who have been battered or subjected to extreme cruelty, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall apply the provisions of section 204(a)(1)(J) and the protections, prohibitions, and penalties under section 384 of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (8 U.S.C. 1367).

`(B) GROUNDS OF INADMISSIBILITY NOT APPLICABLE- In establishing admissibility to the United States, the spouse or child described in subparagraph (A) shall establish that they are not inadmissible under section 212(a), except for any provision of that section that is waived under subsection (b) of this section.

`(C) SECURITY AND LAW ENFORCEMENT CLEARANCE- The spouse or child, if that child is 14 years of age or older, described in subparagraph (A) shall submit fingerprints in accordance with procedures established by the Secretary of Homeland Security. Such fingerprints shall be submitted to relevant Federal agencies to be checked against existing databases for information relating to criminal, national security, or other law enforcement actions that would render the alien ineligible for adjustment of status under this subsection. The relevant Federal agencies shall work to ensure that such clearances are completed within 90 days of the submission of fingerprints. An appeal of a denial by the Secretary of Homeland Security shall be processed through the Department of Homeland Security.

`(3) NONAPPLICABILITY OF NUMERICAL LIMITATIONS- When an alien is granted lawful permanent resident status under this subsection, the number of immigrant visas authorized to be issued under any provision of this Act shall not be reduced.

The Rabbi

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Re: Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2008, 09:31:27 AM »
I dont see the word amnesty anywhere here.
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Sergeant Bob

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Re: Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2008, 09:47:17 AM »
I dont see the word amnesty anywhere here.

Oh please.......

Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

I already have canned butter, buying more. Canned blueberries, some pancake making dry goods and the end of the world is gonna be delicious.  -French G

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2008, 09:51:19 AM »
for those who attended public schools only

"Amnesty was used in South Africa, during the 1990s, as part of the TRC (Truth and Reconciliation)
In the United States immigration debate, allowing illegal immigrants to legally remain in the United States is often called amnesty. [1] Some observers contend that the word amnesty is improperly applied here. One reason for this contention is that the proposals under consideration include financial penalties for illegal immigrants. Another reason is that the government's current practice is generally to deport but not to prosecute illegal immigrants. Hence, there is no legal adjudication of guilt to be forgiven. [2] "

read it slow  move lips if it helps

The Rabbi

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Re: Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2008, 10:06:51 AM »
I dont see the word amnesty anywhere here.

Oh please.......



And that one aint quacking, bubba.
I challenged anyone to find the word amnesty in the bill.  No one has.  Because it's not there.  There was no "amnesty" provision.  The bill did not mandate the death penalty and in some circles that was considered tantamount to amnesty. But people's idiotic misperceptions aren't my problem.
Giving someone a legal way to become a citizen with attached penalties for past violations is not amnesty in any way shape or form.
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Sergeant Bob

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Re: Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2008, 10:19:32 AM »
thefreedictionary.com

am?nes?ty  (mn-st)
n. pl. am?nes?ties
A general pardon granted by a government, especially for political offenses.
tr.v. am?nes?tied, am?nes?ty?ing, am?nes?ties
To grant a general pardon to.
[Latin amnstia, from Greek amnsti; see amnesia.]

The American Heritage? Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ?2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2003. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

ThesaurusLegend:  Synonyms Related Words Antonyms

Noun   1.   amnesty - a period during which offenders are exempt from punishment
exemption, freedom - immunity from an obligation or duty
   2.   amnesty - a warrant granting release from punishment for an offense
   3.   amnesty - the formal act of liberating


Verb   1.   amnesty - grant a pardon to (a group of people)
Copyyright ? 2008 Farlex, Inc.Source URL: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/amnesty
________________________________________________________________________

If you want to play word games then fine, but its still just playing games. rolleyes
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

I already have canned butter, buying more. Canned blueberries, some pancake making dry goods and the end of the world is gonna be delicious.  -French G

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2008, 10:28:02 AM »
forgot to move your lips didn't ya....

The Rabbi

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Re: Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2008, 10:30:18 AM »
You might want to try reading the definitions instead of just posting crap.

You would find that "amnesty" tends to mean a complete forgiveness for past wrongful behavior.  When Carter pardoned the draft dodgers after Vietnam, they got amnesty.  They could just walk back over the Canadian border to the U.S. and resume life like nothing happened.  That's an amnesty.
This was not an amnesty.  This bill would have imposed conditions and fines.  Any action that imposes penalties for past behavior is ipso facto not an amnesty.
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Desertdog

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Re: Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2008, 11:11:50 AM »
Quote
Any action that imposes penalties for past behavior is ipso facto not an amnesty.
Anything short of sending them back to their home country, Canada, England, Ireland, Iraq, Spain, Mexico, or any other country on this earth, or outer space, TO ME, and to many others, is Amnesty.  Reminds me of "It depends on what is, is."

This started out as "Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair," which is about controlling what is on the broadcast bands.  How did it get here?

HankB

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Re: Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2008, 11:25:13 AM »
No doubt these arguments are why various pundits coined a new word to describe letting illegals stay . . . shamnesty.
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cordex

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Re: Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2008, 12:38:26 PM »
Judge: "Because of the heinous nature of your crimes, I sentence you to be hanged by the neck until dead, dead, dead!"
Prisoner: "Whew, at least he didn't say I'd be executed!"

You would find that "amnesty" tends to mean a complete forgiveness for past wrongful behavior.
I don't see the words "complete forgiveness" anywhere in the posted definition.

I'm torn when it comes to the immigration debate, and sadly it has little to do with the debate itself and more to do with the advocates of each position.  On the one side we've got folks like seeker_two arguing that confining illegal immigrants to cells without food, water and sanitary facilities for four days is no big deal because they're just non-citizen scum.  Too bad, so sad!  And on the other hand we've got the likes of Rabbi with his nonsensical arguments, specious reasoning and constant flip-flopping between unreasoning belief in law for its own sake in some cases, and dismissal of law as utterly unimportant and irrelevant in others.  It's getting hard to separate the root issue from the whining on both sides.

Oh, and I strongly disagree with the "Fairness Doctrine".

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Re: Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2008, 01:04:48 PM »
Quote
Any action that imposes penalties for past behavior is ipso facto not an amnesty.
Anything short of sending them back to their home country, Canada, England, Ireland, Iraq, Spain, Mexico, or any other country on this earth, or outer space, TO ME, and to many others, is Amnesty.  Reminds me of "It depends on what is, is."

This started out as "Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair," which is about controlling what is on the broadcast bands.  How did it get here?

Hit the nail on the head.  TO YOU, it is amnesty.  That doesnt make it so, of course.  To others anything short of hanging is amnesty. 
But it isnt about you.  It is about whether the bill was an amnesty or not (and it isnt about the thread title but someone just had to bring it up).  I think I've shown it was not an amnesty.  If someone would care to bring a text of the bill and find the part that constructively equate to amnesty, I would be happy to admit that's what it was.  Until then, you've lost this round.
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johnster999

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Re: Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2008, 01:09:02 PM »
We already have fairness on the airwaves. The people that more people want to listen to stay in business. Others don't. Fair as can be.

As far as amnesty, shamnesty or whatever, it doesn't matter what you call it. The public clearly rejected whatever it was and the arguments associated with it.

The Rabbi

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Re: Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair
« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2008, 01:11:04 PM »
We already have fairness on the airwaves. The people that more people want to listen to stay in business. Others don't. Fair as can be.

As far as amnesty, shamnesty or whatever, it doesn't matter what you call it. The public clearly rejected whatever it was and the arguments associated with it.
Agreed 100% with your first point.

On the second, I dont recall ever being asked.  I do recall that there was big politicking against it on the part of the Native Right.  So the GOP basically killed it.
But things are so much better now, right? rolleyes
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johnster999

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Re: Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair
« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2008, 01:30:38 PM »
On the second, I dont recall ever being asked.  I do recall that there was big politicking against it on the part of the Native Right.  So the GOP basically killed it.
But things are so much better now, right? rolleyes

The folks who helped defeat the legislation weren't really asked either. They just let their point of view be heard strongly. No doubt many were Republicans rallied by talk radio.

Opposition to the notion of legalizing illegals, however, is broad based in the US, not limited to the right, "Native Right" or the GOP.

Things will get better when existing law is enforced.

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Re: Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair
« Reply #42 on: March 14, 2008, 01:57:27 PM »
I;m counting the days. rolleyes

Ever wonder why it isnt enforced (as much as people would like)?
hint:it has nothing to do with conspiracy.
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Sergeant Bob

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Re: Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair
« Reply #43 on: March 14, 2008, 02:42:19 PM »
Judge: "Because of the heinous nature of your crimes, I sentence you to be hanged by the neck until dead, dead, dead!"
Prisoner: "Whew, at least he didn't say I'd be executed!"

You would find that "amnesty" tends to mean a complete forgiveness for past wrongful behavior.
I don't see the words "complete forgiveness" anywhere in the posted definition.

Thank you for a good post Cordex. It was really nice when rabbi was gone and every thread wasn't reduced to arguing pointless minutia.
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

I already have canned butter, buying more. Canned blueberries, some pancake making dry goods and the end of the world is gonna be delicious.  -French G

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair
« Reply #44 on: March 14, 2008, 06:15:11 PM »
Thank you for a good post Cordex. It was really nice when rabbi was gone and every thread wasn't reduced to arguing pointless minutia. and i wasn't faced with facts and arguments i had no answer for

fixed it for you

Sergeant Bob

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Re: Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair
« Reply #45 on: March 14, 2008, 07:57:51 PM »
Thank you for a good post Cordex. It was really nice when rabbi was gone and every thread wasn't reduced to arguing pointless minutia. and i wasn't faced with facts and arguments i had no answer for

fixed it for you
Why do you need to troll for rabbi? You sure have gotten cocky since he got back. WTH is your problem?
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

I already have canned butter, buying more. Canned blueberries, some pancake making dry goods and the end of the world is gonna be delicious.  -French G

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair
« Reply #46 on: March 14, 2008, 08:28:08 PM »
i wasn't aware my cockiness went down or that he was gone   as a matter mof fact amongst the few constants in life i count on is my cockiness.  what does make it worse is when people hide from the hard questions.  would seem that the law defeated required you to jump though some hoops as well as pay back taxes. catching up with the irs is not easy .  i know someone told ya it was an amnesty but don't believe everything cis or sos tells ya

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Re: Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2008, 04:49:43 PM »
Judge: "Because of the heinous nature of your crimes, I sentence you to be hanged by the neck until dead, dead, dead!"
Prisoner: "Whew, at least he didn't say I'd be executed!"

You would find that "amnesty" tends to mean a complete forgiveness for past wrongful behavior.
I don't see the words "complete forgiveness" anywhere in the posted definition.

Thank you for a good post Cordex. It was really nice when rabbi was gone and every thread wasn't reduced to arguing actual facts.
Fixed it for ya.
The claim was that the bill was an amnesty.  I think Ive shown there was no amnesty.  Your response is to say that the actual facts amount to "pointless minutiae."  If the facts dont matter, then what does in a discussion?  Your opinion? If you arent basing your opinion on the actual facts, what are you basing it on, other opinions?
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Sergeant Bob

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Re: Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair
« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2008, 07:26:40 PM »
OK, you win Minutiaman. cheesy
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

I already have canned butter, buying more. Canned blueberries, some pancake making dry goods and the end of the world is gonna be delicious.  -French G

Gewehr98

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Re: Bush: Fairness Doctrine unfair
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2008, 07:47:18 PM »
Ya' know, if we can't play nice with each other, I foresee a day when the playground will be closed.  Much weeping and gnashing of teeth will ensue, but it'll be too late.  undecided
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