Unpaid Taxes; Armored Vehicle Menaces Home; Man Opens Fire; Standoff Ensues:

[hitbackfirst]

Unpaid Taxes Lead To Armored SWAT Vehicle Menacing Home; Man Opens Fire On Vehicle; Standoff Ensues.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jpugDDKV9j7rjqt_4I-dJSOFu28gD8VQKH901

Wis. Man in Standoff Over Unpaid Taxes

20 hours ago

VIOLA, Wis. (AP)  A landowner with "strong anti-government attitudes" barricaded himself in his rural home Thursday and fired shots at SWAT officers trying to search his home and arrest him, authorities said. No one was injured.

The dispute started Monday when Richland County sheriff's deputies tried to serve Robert Bayliss, 60, with a lawsuit seeking to evict him for failure to pay property taxes back to 2001 on his home and 18 acres, Richland county counsel Benjamin Southwick said.

The county took ownership of the land in November because of the unpaid taxes, Southwick said.

Rifle shots were fired at officers who went to the property Monday, said Darin Gudgeon, the Richland County emergency management director. On Thursday, SWAT officers used an armored vehicle to try to serve the search and arrest warrants but encountered shots and ended up in a standoff, Gudgeon said.

No one has been hurt, he said.

"We are still trying to open up lines of communication," Gudgeon said Thursday. The landowner was alone and had barricaded himself inside the home, he said.

Bayliss was known as "a person who had very strong anti-government attitudes and beliefs" and who would carry a rifle and show it, Southwick said.

He owes $5,647 in delinquent taxes and interest on the land and has not paid the taxes for seven years, according to the county treasurer's office.

Viola is a town of about 700 people 70 miles northwest of Madison.

In October, a New Hampshire property where two tax evaders holed up for months refusing to serve prison sentences was cleared of explosives and seized by the federal government. Ed and Elaine Brown are serving five years in prison.

I guess an armored vehicle coming toward your front door could sort of reinforce those "strong anti-government attitudes," don't you think? It seems the only time the government really puts the pressure on people is when money is involved.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

gosh  who woulda thought that not paying taxes for 7  years would have consequences.... what a surprise. whack jobs lucky to be breathing.  they are nicer to crazy folks who shoot at em than i'd be

[WeedWhacker]

He owes $5,647 in delinquent taxes and interest on the land and has not paid the taxes for seven years, according to the county treasurer's office.

Home invasion plus almost certain death over a matter of fifty-seven hundred bucks? Our fed friends must really be heard up for dosh.

[Finch]

He owes $5,647 in delinquent taxes and interest on the land and has not paid the taxes for seven years, according to the county treasurer's office.

Home invasion plus almost certain death over a matter of fifty-seven hundred bucks? Our fed friends must really be heard up for dosh.

While I beleive the Fed's method and reasoning behind taxation is screwed up, I think property taxes are a state/local matter.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

in the real world the feds have nothin to do with it.  reading the article would show that the county is after him.  thats kinda like local governement.  not nearly as much fun to try to make into a us against them thing though. old man that hard up he can't swing a grand a year in property tax? i wish my bill was that low.  or maybe he figures the heroes of the revolutiuon are on the way to man the barricades with him.

[jrfoxx]

The guy broke the law, like it or not. My problem is he owed under $6000 in taxes, so they sieze his HOME, and 18 acres in property? I dont know the real estate market there, but I'm willing to bet his house, and 18 acres of land is worth a bit more than $6000......

Seems fair...since the govt said it is....

[Fjolnirsson]

He owes $5,647 in delinquent taxes and interest on the land and has not paid the taxes for seven years

Huh, seems fair to kick him out, and take all 18 acres, doesn't it?
I owe some back taxes on my land, myself. About $5,000, if memory serves me. Had a bad few years that ate through all my savings, with one thing and another. My tax refund this year is going to pay on it. So is that other check they're gonna send in the summer.  It wouldn't take much more to put me into this same situation, where the county tries to take my home for taxes. So, I have quite a lot of sympathy for the guy.

I've paid for my home. I own it, I have title, there is no lender involved. Paid for by the time I was 29, 1700 square feet on a city lot. How is it right, that due to some hard times, the county can come in and seize it for what amount to 5%of the total value in money owed to them? (Let's not get into paying a tax on what I own.)

I work for the city government. When we have someone with bills that haven't been paid, and they refuse for a lengthy period of time, we put a lien on the home. If it is ever sold, we get the money. Seems it would be easy for the county to do the same. If someone owes money to me on a business deal, and they refuse to pay, I have to take them to court, to get a judgment. Eventually, the court *might* garnish their wages, but I can't just take their land from them. Even if they owed me $200,000, I couldn't take it.

I take objection to the government having rights a citizen doesn't have. I take objection to a man losing everything he has worked for over a paltry $5,000. And I think it gives an excellent example of why so many have resentment and anger toward the government.

[WeedWhacker]

He owes $5,647 in delinquent taxes and interest on the land and has not paid the taxes for seven years, according to the county treasurer's office.

Home invasion plus almost certain death over a matter of fifty-seven hundred bucks? Our fed friends must really be heard up for dosh.

I read 'SWAT', brain translates as 'men in black, masks, body armor, with automatic rifles'... can't possibly see how I could have momentarily confused them with the ATF.

That matter aside, I still stand behind my words: state law enforcement is willing to kill a rural dweller over a matter of fifty-seven hundred dollars.

[WeedWhacker]

old man that hard up he can't swing a grand a year in property tax? i wish my bill was that low.

Apply your argument to the other party to reveal the reason for outrage.

[seeker_two]

Yes...the homeowner is in the wrong, here.....

...but why not just file a lein on the property?  Whole lot safer....and the state would still get their money....

...and why not wait to arrest him away from the home...like in town or at Wal-Mart? 

Poorly handled, IMHO..... 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

"That matter aside, I still stand behind my words: state law enforcement is willing to kill a rural dweller over a matter of fifty-seven hundred dollars. "

in the real world the old man shot at em and is still breathing last i checked. him taking the shots kinda endorses their view that he's a few fries short of a happy meal.

were they coming to arrest him or serve him with the court papers regarding his house?

if he like you owned his house he could swing a note to cover the debt. i've been deep in the hole and found it possible to work out a variety of deals and payment plans. but then again i never tried the rant and flash guns method. ignoring them or trying to pretend they lack jurisdiction is proven to be unfruitful too. i think some folks get crossed up when all the heroes of the revolution who TALK  so tuff on the net fail to materialize to help in their struggle.

[ilbob]

it sure seems like this guy was just asking for this kind of treatment, but it does seem a little over the top to send a swat team out to collect on a $5000 debt.

But that is what government is all about - the coercive use of force.

[johnster999]

Sounds like a man with nothing else to lose.

[Finch]

Yes...the homeowner is in the wrong, here.....

...but why not just file a lein on the property?  Whole lot safer....and the state would still get their money....

...and why not wait to arrest him away from the home...like in town or at Wal-Mart? 

Poorly handled, IMHO..... 

If they did that how would they justify the continued militarization of our domestic police agencies?

[Manedwolf]

In NH, they took a threatening-violence loony "tax protester" who had everything from .50s aimed out the windows to explosives, all without firing a shot.

The marshals simply patiently created a false persona for an agent, waited for the nuts to accept him as on their side, one of them, and then, when he was in their house one night, he arrested them.

Nobody got hurt.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

no one hurt here   yet
hes one of the new school of folk " if i shoot at em and they don't serve me with the eviction papers i win."  same technique with the taxes got him such great sucess

[K Frame]

"Why not file a lien on the property"

It sounds as if they have gone past the lien point and were executing a sheriff's sale for unpaid taxes.

The article says that the county took legal possession of the property in November, most likely through a judicial foreclosure proceeding.

At the point the order was signed, he no longer owned the property.

This isn't a federal issue, either. Property taxes are local.

As for the local police being willing to kill over $5,700 in back taxes, it's pretty apparent that the guy who is holed up in the house is also quite prepared to kill someone over $5,700 in back taxes.

See, it works both ways.

[Manedwolf]

The thing is, the Browns were quite willing to kill, too.

It's just that they were taken without a shot by good, old-fashioned police work, a savvy US Marshals officer who knew how to do everything up to and including create false chatter on chatrooms that their agent's persona could be trusted. The agent was invited in, waited for the right moment, and restrained the crazy guy.

[Bigjake]

This just proves once again that even after you've paid for YOUR land, you still only rent it from the .gov.  Hope the guy lives long enough to make something proactive out of this, maybe a president setting case.

[Matthew Carberry]

This just proves once again that even after you've paid for YOUR land, you still only rent it from the .gov.  Hope the guy lives long enough to make something proactive out of this, maybe a president setting case.

That problem is created by an unwillingness to fund necessary .gov operations at the local/county/state level with more visible sales or income taxes.

Property taxes are an easy way to get funds.  They are "out of sight, out of mind" for most people who pay them as part of their escrow and renter's vote for increases willy-nilly thinking they won't get passed through.

Slap the same amount on the bottom of everyone's daily sales receipts or out of their paycheck every couple weeks and we'd see a massive movement to lower the cost of government at every level.

Don't blame "property taxes", blame the people who vote and choose that method of taxation.

Which would be you and me. 

Well, not me anymore, I'm no longer a property owner.  So now I can vote for every bond that comes down the pike again.  Sales tax bad, screw the rich landowners. 

[MrRezister]

The lesson here:
Pay the Rent for your Private Property, or it magically becomes Public Property.  And we can't have no-rent-paying bums like you living on Public Property!

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

The lesson here:
Pay the Rent for your Private Property, or it magically becomes Public Property.  And we can't have no-rent-paying bums like you living on Public Property!

your rant might mean something if you can figure how not to use any public utilities or services. no roads or anything else. otherwise it sounds like the thoughts of a freeloading cheeto eater

[El Tejon]

6K?  Why not just sue him in small claims court?

If he's a Militia Boy, he spends that much in Twinkies each month.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I would retitle the thread
tenous grasp on reallity, unpaid taxes. posturing with a gun. cops show up mental illness explodes attempted suicide by cop, cops take pity and try to get help for demented man in spite of shots being fired.


i don't see where the cops have fired on him at all.  did i miss that?

[lupinus]

so we can expect the same against all those illegals not paying taxes right?