Author Topic: Chinese military officers in Zimbabwe?  (Read 3241 times)

Manedwolf

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Chinese military officers in Zimbabwe?
« on: April 22, 2008, 06:36:07 AM »
A Chinese client state there would be Bad.

Quote
Chinese troops are on the streets of Zimbabwean city, witnesses say

By Ian Evans in Cape Town
Saturday, 19 April 2008

Chinese troops have been seen on the streets of Zimbabwe's third largest city, Mutare, according to local witnesses. They were seen patrolling with Zimbabwean soldiers before and during Tuesday's ill-fated general strike called by the opposition Movement for Democratic Change (MDC).

Earlier, 10 Chinese soldiers armed with pistols checked in at the city's Holiday Inn along with 70 Zimbabwean troops.

One eyewitness, who asked not to be named, said: "We've never seen Chinese soldiers in full regalia on our streets before. The entire delegation took 80 rooms from the hotel, 10 for the Chinese and 70 for Zimbabwean soldiers."

Officially, the Chinese were visiting strategic locations such as border posts, key companies and state institutions, he said. But it is unclear why they were patrolling at such a sensitive time. They were supposed to stay five days, but left after three to travel to Masvingo, in the south.

China's support for President Mugabe's regime has been highlighted by the arrival in South Africa of a ship carrying a large cache of weapons destined for Zimbabwe's armed forces. Dock workers in Durban refused to unload it.

The 300,000-strong South African Transport and Allied Workers Union (Satawu) said it would be "grossly irresponsible" to touch the cargo of ammunition, grenades and mortar rounds on board the Chinese ship An Yue Jiang anchored outside the port.

A Satawu spokesman Randall Howard said: "Our members employed at Durban container terminal will not unload this cargo, neither will any of our members in the truck-driving sector move this cargo by road. South Africa cannot be seen to be facilitating the flow of weapons into Zimbabwe at a time where there is a political dispute and a volatile situation between Zanu-PF and the MDC."

Three million rounds of AK-47 ammunition, 1,500 rocket-propelled grenades and more than 3,000 mortar rounds and mortar tubes are among the cargo on the Chinese ship, according to copies of the inventory published by a South African newspaper.

According to Beeld, the documentation for the shipment was completed on 1 April, three days after the presidential vote.

Zimbabwe and China have close military ties. Three years ago, Mr Mugabe signed extensive trade pacts with the Chinese as part of the "Look East" policy forced on him by his ostracising by Western governments over human rights abuses. The deal gave the Chinese mineral and trade concessions in exchange for economic help.

The shadow Foreign Secretary William Hague called on David Miliband to demand a cessation of arms shipments.

A South African government spokesman Themba Maseko said it would be difficult to stop the shipment.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/chinese-troops-are-on-the-streets-of-zimbabwean-city-witnesses-say-811796.html

Ship was turned away, but...PRC officers? Consulting? Military advisers? Well, that's worrying, if it's true. They get mineral rights, they prop him up?

(I'm assuming officers due to the fact they were wearing pistols, which, I believe, is the standard for PRC officers, not enlisted soldiers.)

K Frame

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Re: Chinese military officers in Zimbabwe?
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2008, 06:48:15 AM »
Not politics.
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HankB

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Re: Chinese military officers in Zimbabwe?
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2008, 08:08:46 AM »
The Zimbabwe dollar is falling so fast (inflation over 100,000% - that's one hundred thousand percent!) that Mugabe may not be able to print money fast enough to pay his troops . . . and there's nothing on store shelves to buy anyway.

There's not much left to loot other than international food aid, and grain won't satisfy soldiers who want meat, liquor, and shiny things to play with.

The loyalty of unpaid, hungry troops isn't something Mugabe can count on, so maybe he's going to be getting help from China. Chinese officers in Harare and later going on down to Masvingo might be doing a recon . . .

Here's a thought . . . maybe the Chinese arms shipment isn't really meant for Zimbabwe's own military, but is intended to outfit  Chinese "volunteers" or "tourists" who will be coming in on commercial transport?
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Finch

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Re: Chinese military officers in Zimbabwe?
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2008, 09:35:42 AM »
Damn It, now we have another country we need to invade. They are not doing what we want. When will it end.
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The Annoyed Man

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Re: Chinese military officers in Zimbabwe?
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2008, 09:39:00 AM »
Uh, what's the beef?  Aren't there American military officers in foreign countries?  Aren't we attempting to make those countries our 'client states'?

Boomhauer

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Re: Chinese military officers in Zimbabwe?
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2008, 09:50:59 AM »
Damn It, now we have another country we need to invade. They are not doing what we want. When will it end.

So, why do ya'll say that every time some third world shithole has internal problems? Just curious. Cause we haven't invaded everytime something happens in another country...i.e., revolutions, collapses of gov't, etc.

And it's Zimbabwe. Just another typical African country. This stuff happens all the time over there.

I must wonder what is in it for the Chinese (other than arms sales, of course)?





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Manedwolf

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Re: Chinese military officers in Zimbabwe?
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2008, 09:52:18 AM »
Damn It, now we have another country we need to invade. They are not doing what we want. When will it end.

So, why do ya'll say that every time some third world shithole has internal problems? Just curious. Cause we haven't invaded everytime something happens in another country...i.e., revolutions, collapses of gov't, etc.

And it's Zimbabwe. Just another typical African country. This stuff happens all the time over there.

I must wonder what is in it for the Chinese (other than arms sales, of course)?

Mineral rights. Copper, nickel, tin!

China NEEDS that. Plus cheap, disposable labor for the mines they probably want to build.

HankB

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Re: Chinese military officers in Zimbabwe?
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2008, 09:54:35 AM »
Damn It, now we have another country we need to invade. They are not doing what we want. When will it end.
We won't send troops unless a Democrat is in office - while they chant "no blood for oil" they're willing to "spill blood for nothing." (If we have nothing to gain, our motives must be pure.)
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

RevDisk

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Re: Chinese military officers in Zimbabwe?
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2008, 07:55:30 AM »
A Chinese client state there would be Bad.

Let the Chinese try to maintain a client state in Africa.  Maybe they are that stupid.  China historically has done the intelligent thing and faught their wars against us by proxy or economics. 



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Manedwolf

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Re: Chinese military officers in Zimbabwe?
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2008, 07:57:14 AM »
A Chinese client state there would be Bad.

Let the Chinese try to maintain a client state in Africa.  Maybe they are that stupid.  China historically has done the intelligent thing and faught their wars against us by proxy or economics. 

They want the resources. China having the resources would be bad. Africa is extremely mineral-rich, even if most all the governments absolutely suck beyond belief. Zimbabwe has a lot of gold still in the ground.

RevDisk

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Re: Chinese military officers in Zimbabwe?
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2008, 08:14:59 AM »
A Chinese client state there would be Bad.

Let the Chinese try to maintain a client state in Africa.  Maybe they are that stupid.  China historically has done the intelligent thing and faught their wars against us by proxy or economics. 

They want the resources. China having the resources would be bad. Africa is extremely mineral-rich, even if most all the governments absolutely suck beyond belief. Zimbabwe has a lot of gold still in the ground.

I'm sure we could find ways of uh, affecting production schedules.  Equipment breaking down, labor issues, insurgent warfare, the usual for Africa.   

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BobR

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Re: Chinese military officers in Zimbabwe?
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2008, 09:35:33 AM »
Google China and Africa and find out what the Chinese have been doing there for several years. They are building infrstructure, claiming raw materials, and dumping mpney into countries like crazy.

I work with a Dr from Nigeria and he has lots of stories about the chinese in Africa.

The chinese may be a little smarter than some give credit.

bob