Ron Paul??? What the Heck???

[GigaBuist]

Google "monetarism" and read away.  I bet you'll like what you see.  I suspect that when most extreme Libertarians argue in favor of a gold standard, what they really want is a strict monetarist policy, which they mistakenly believe a gold standard would deliver.

Yes, because we never read. Because I don't know what monetarism is, or [yadda yadda yadda]

I didn't take any offense to his remarks, which were directed at me.  I'm not terribly well versed in this topic and he added a new word to my lexicon.  That and he summarized my position exactly: I want a strict monetarist policy.

Gold, silver, copper, iron, zinc, maple syrup, midgets -- I don't care what we tie the damned currency to just so long as it's something better than:

[Perd Hapley]

fiat currencies, which can be inflated at the push of a button nowadays... and are.

Is that a good thing, or a bad thing? 

[Manedwolf]

Basic reality check.

If you control your own money as a nation by printing it, you are still in control of it.

If you back it with a commodity that OTHER countries control the flow of, then you are no longer in control of it.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

fiat currencies, which can be inflated at the push of a button nowadays... and are.

Is that a good thing, or a bad thing? 

Yes.

Creating currency on a whim is necessary in a modern economy.  That's why the Fed was created, that's what it's supposed to do.  That's its chief advantage over the gold standard.  Creating of money is a powerful tool that can be used to stabilize the markets and substantially improve general prosperity and quality of life.

Of course, this powerful tool is like any other powerful tool.  It can be misused, either deliberately or accidentally.  Used incorrectly, it can cause as much pain as it was intended to prevent. 

So, do we blame the tool?  Is the tool itself bad?  Or should we accept that the tool exists and that it has benefits and risks associated with its use?

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Google "monetarism" and read away.  I bet you'll like what you see.  I suspect that when most extreme Libertarians argue in favor of a gold standard, what they really want is a strict monetarist policy, which they mistakenly believe a gold standard would deliver.

Yes, because we never read. Because I don't know what monetarism is, or [yadda yadda yadda]

I didn't take any offense to his remarks, which were directed at me.  I'm not terribly well versed in this topic and he added a new word to my lexicon.  That and he summarized my position exactly: I want a strict monetarist policy.

Yeah, I didn't mean any offense or insult.  Those remarks were directed specifically to Giga, who acknowledged not knowing much about this stuff.  A few years ago when I was in his shoes, I didn't know much about this stuff either (but I thought I did).  Some smart folks pointed me at some information that I found pretty interesting, and I've been studying it ever since. 

I was simply trying to do the same for Giga that others have done for me.  That is, help me learn about something I didn't know much about. 

If what I said was offensive, I'm sorry.  I didn't mean it to be.

[Balog]

Ok, I don't have a dog in this fight, as they say. I admit I don't know much about economics. But something keeps bugging me. Maned keeps pointing out that China and other hostile nations control gold and could flood the market as a form of economic warfare. But since FRN's are freely traded on the open market and the chicoms hold a ton of them, couldn't they just flood the market by selling a trillion or so?

[GigaBuist]

But since FRN's are freely traded on the open market and the chicoms hold a ton of them, couldn't they just flood the market by selling a trillion or so?

They only hold $1.3 trillion... whereas their gold reserves are slightly higher than hours according to ManedWolf.

If we were on a gold standard they could halve our dollar's value by dumping their gold onto the market.

I'm not sure what fraction $1.3 trillion is compared to the FRNs in circulation, but it's nowhere near half!

[roo_ster]

Basic reality check.

If you control your own money as a nation by printing it, you are still in control of it.

If you back it with a commodity that OTHER countries control the flow of, then you are no longer in control of it.

We have a winner...

[The Annoyed Man]

Ron Paul ran ads here in Hoosierland for the past week or two.  Foolish.  Why throw away good money trying to win a race that's over and lost?  Ya can't change the past.

On the other hand, why not? The money was not taken by force from taxpayers and that makes all the difference in the world. It was voluntarily donated.

[MicroBalrog]

Ron Paul ran ads here in Hoosierland for the past week or two.  Foolish.  Why throw away good money trying to win a race that's over and lost?  Ya can't change the past.

On the other hand, why not? The money was not taken by force from taxpayers and that makes all the difference in the world. It was voluntarily donated.

It was donated for the purpose of having him spend it on political ads to promote himself and his views. To spend it on something else would be fraud from a moral standpoint, even if it is not fraud legally.

[The Annoyed Man]

Ron Paul ran ads here in Hoosierland for the past week or two.  Foolish.  Why throw away good money trying to win a race that's over and lost?  Ya can't change the past.

On the other hand, why not? The money was not taken by force from taxpayers and that makes all the difference in the world. It was voluntarily donated.

It was donated for the purpose of having him spend it on political ads to promote himself and his views. To spend it on something else would be fraud from a moral standpoint, even if it is not fraud legally.

Isn't that what he is using the money for?

[MicroBalrog]

My only gripe with Ron Paul is that he is running these ads now and not when they could have made a difference.

[roo_ster]

When was the time that RP made a difference, again?

Heck, I ended up voting for Paul, but I have no illusions about his overall effectiveness.

I just did it so I can pull an inverted Kerry:
"I voted against McCain before I voted for McCain."

[MicroBalrog]

When was the time that RP made a difference, again?

You don't only make a difference by winning elections.

[The Annoyed Man]

My only gripe with Ron Paul is that he is running these ads now and not when they could have made a difference.

I think he is making more of a difference most people think he is.

[Manedwolf]

My only gripe with Ron Paul is that he is running these ads now and not when they could have made a difference.

I think he is making more of a difference most people think he is.

Yes. He got the entire libertarian moment dismissed by the general populace as a bunch of wookie-costume-wearing 9/11 troofer basement-dwelling gold-obsessed nutcases.

[The Annoyed Man]

My only gripe with Ron Paul is that he is running these ads now and not when they could have made a difference.

I think he is making more of a difference most people think he is.

Yes. He got the entire libertarian moment dismissed by the general populace as a bunch of wookie-costume-wearing 9/11 troofer basement-dwelling gold-obsessed nutcases.

How is that different from every other libertarian candidate? He had more people interested in his campaign than the last three libertarian candidates combined. Still does as far as I can tell.

The statists were worried enough about his followed to coin a term "Paultards" to dismiss them as wingnuts.

[Manedwolf]

Actually, I called then Paulistinians after they ran around Manchester in a screaming, near-rioting mob screaming about Fox News not hosting their messiah. It looked exactly like one of the infamous rock-throwing-fests.

[The Annoyed Man]

Actually, I called then Paulistinians after they ran around Manchester in a screaming, near-rioting mob screaming about Fox News not hosting their messiah. It looked exactly like one of the infamous rock-throwing-fests.

People do tend to get over excitable in crowds.

[MicroBalrog]

Yes. He got the entire libertarian moment dismissed by the general populace as a bunch of wookie-costume-wearing 9/11 troofer basement-dwelling gold-obsessed nutcases.

Oh god, not the wookie costumes!

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Hey!  I like the wookie costumes.  Politics would be so much more entertaining if the participants all had to wear costumes.

[MechAg94]

Actually, political debates would be much more interesting and likely honest if they had to chug beers or drink shots after each question. 

[xavier fremboe]

Actually, political debates would be much more interesting and likely honest if they had to chug beers or drink shots after each question. 

In wookie costumes.

[Manedwolf]

Actually, political debates would be much more interesting and likely honest if they had to chug beers or drink shots after each question. 

I want the House and Senate floor to look like the one in Taiwan when they get into a disagreement. Room-clearing brawl. People would pay to watch that.

[MicroBalrog]

Actually, I called then Paulistinians after they ran around Manchester in a screaming, near-rioting mob screaming about Fox News not hosting their messiah. It looked exactly like one of the infamous rock-throwing-fests.

People get angry. People protest.