Fight over open carry gun policy in Texa

[Nitrogen]

I'm all for unlicensed open carry.  With restrictions, like those in place for concealed carry.  (no carry in schools, bars, etc)

Then, in turn, we should remove all the restrictions on open AND concealed carry for people that pass the background check.

I think that'd at least nod toward the scardycats, and get everyone a bit of what they want.

[Perd Hapley]

If you all want it, maybe you'd best get it codified in your state laws.  Here in Pennsylvania, it isn't illegal because it isn't expressly forbidden in state law.  Even so, an awful lot of cops have a tendency to get overexcited at the sight of open carry.  This results in unpleasantry all around.  The carrier, absent any real wrongdoing, prevails; but that doesn't undo the hassle.

I think the solution to this is not legislation. If anything, if more people carried openly, everybody would get slowly used to a more pro-gun culture. In fact I would argue that's one of the big strengths of OC.

Hence, the organized OC movements, that plan special events or days in which they all carry together.  That way it's not just individuals getting popped here and there, then having to deal with the aftermath. 

[LAK]

Then, in turn, we should remove all the restrictions on open AND concealed carry for people that pass the background check.

Background checks are a waste of time, and they should not be a prelude to exercizing a right.

And part of the problem with "concealed carry permits" is that it amounts to a substantial tax. Anyone that might fail a background check is no more "damgerous" than any thug carrying a concealed handgun without a "permit".

Many thanks to the Honorable Suzanne Gratia-Hupp for supporting this; and anyone that wants to sign the online petition can go to:

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/texasoc/

[MicroBalrog]

Yes, I agree with you LAK.

In a free society, a sixteen-year-old Girl Scout will be able to walk into a WalMart, plop her change basket onto the counter, and walk out with an M1921, no questions asked.

But we can't get there overnight - if only because we know that most of the people who claim to agree with us would surrender on the very brink of victory if the opportunity presented itself today.

So we must work hard. Part of it is to reacquaint society with the notion that their neighbors carry arms as well.

[seeker_two]

Yeah, but as a gun nut, you're one of those crazy people.  How would normal people feel about it?     

Dammit, it's bitter and clingy.  We have guns because we're bitter and clingy.

...and religious....don't forget religious.... 

[Manedwolf]

The one major problem I see with OC is the issue of extremely out of shape or physically weak people carrying a weapon in a holster without sufficient retention, or one in a stupid place like small of back.

AKA, free gun for any nutcase who wants it.

[Perd Hapley]

Just as long as you don't want the nanny-state to outlaw it. 

[seeker_two]

The one major problem I see with OC is the issue of extremely out of shape or physically weak people carrying a weapon in a holster without sufficient retention, or one in a stupid place like small of back.

AKA, free gun for any nutcase who wants it.

....because the nutcases can't get access to firearms now...... 

[yesitsloaded]

The one major problem I see with OC is the issue of extremely out of shape or physically weak people carrying a weapon in a holster without sufficient retention, or one in a stupid place like small of back.

Same idiots that drive while talking on a cell phone. Every village has its sock monkey idiot that people blame for everything. If everyone was armed the criminal would have their gun just long enough for it to be a clean shoot when everyone else ventilates him.

[El Tejon]

The one major problem I see with OC is the issue of extremely out of shape or physically weak people carrying a weapon in a holster without sufficient retention, or one in a stupid place like small of back.

Oh, geez, how many snatches from private citizens have there been?

I'll tell you what, Mane, can the Texicanos open carry if they sign an affidavit that they refrain from HFC and join a gym?

[Manedwolf]

Just as long as you don't want the nanny-state to outlaw it. 

No, but a holster of adequate retention minimums can be mandated, just as they are for cops.

That also would stop the "I have no idea how it went off" people with those stupid Glock and Kel-Tec clips who think they don't need a holster.

http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/images/keltec32stryder8.jpg
For people who think they didn't need that femoral artery, anyway...

[freakazoid]

For people who think they didn't need that femoral artery, anyway...

Your picture no worky,

[MechAg94]

The one major problem I see with OC is the issue of extremely out of shape or physically weak people carrying a weapon in a holster without sufficient retention, or one in a stupid place like small of back.

Oh, geez, how many snatches from private citizens have there been?

I'll tell you what, Mane, can the Texicanos open carry if they sign an affidavit that they refrain from HFC and join a gym?

No problem. 


I'm just glad you didn't specify Popeye's. 

[Balog]

I love when people want to impose hurdles to exercising rights because they dream up a situation that's never happened. 

[Nitrogen]

Then, in turn, we should remove all the restrictions on open AND concealed carry for people that pass the background check.

Background checks are a waste of time, and they should not be a prelude to exercizing a right.

And part of the problem with "concealed carry permits" is that it amounts to a substantial tax. Anyone that might fail a background check is no more "damgerous" than any thug carrying a concealed handgun without a "permit".

Many thanks to the Honorable Suzanne Gratia-Hupp for supporting this; and anyone that wants to sign the online petition can go to:

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/texasoc/

I agree with you 100%, but I also realise that we'll get there in baby steps.  This is just one way I think would be palatable to everyone involved for the next 10 years or so until we take the next step.

[Perd Hapley]

Just as long as you don't want the nanny-state to outlaw it. 

No, but a holster of adequate retention minimums can be mandated, just as they are for cops.

  Except that cops on duty are agents of the state, therefore rightfully subject to greater govt. control than the private citizen. 

[Balog]

Then, in turn, we should remove all the restrictions on open AND concealed carry for people that pass the background check.

Background checks are a waste of time, and they should not be a prelude to exercizing a right.

And part of the problem with "concealed carry permits" is that it amounts to a substantial tax. Anyone that might fail a background check is no more "damgerous" than any thug carrying a concealed handgun without a "permit".

Many thanks to the Honorable Suzanne Gratia-Hupp for supporting this; and anyone that wants to sign the online petition can go to:

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/texasoc/

I agree with you 100%, but I also realise that we'll get there in baby steps.  This is just one way I think would be palatable to everyone involved for the next 10 years or so until we take the next step.

Amen. I truly don't understand why the pro-freedom crowd is so incapable of understanding incrementalism....

[Manedwolf]

Just as long as you don't want the nanny-state to outlaw it. 

No, but a holster of adequate retention minimums can be mandated, just as they are for cops.

  Except that cops on duty are agents of the state, therefore rightfully subject to greater govt. control than the private citizen. 

I don't see a problem with basic safety requirements of retention. It's just like how you can't drive a car in unsafe condition on the road.

[Nitrogen]

Just as long as you don't want the nanny-state to outlaw it. 

No, but a holster of adequate retention minimums can be mandated, just as they are for cops.

  Except that cops on duty are agents of the state, therefore rightfully subject to greater govt. control than the private citizen. 

I'd feel better just mandating "Your gun can't fall out on it's own, and if it does, you're liable for xxx fine and yyy penalty.

If someone makes a good retention rig with bailing wire, all the better for them.

I don't see a problem with basic safety requirements of retention. It's just like how you can't drive a car in unsafe condition on the road.

[ilbob]

If you all want it, maybe you'd best get it codified in your state laws.  Here in Pennsylvania, it isn't illegal because it isn't expressly forbidden in state law.  Even so, an awful lot of cops have a tendency to get overexcited at the sight of open carry.  This results in unpleasantry all around.  The carrier, absent any real wrongdoing, prevails; but that doesn't undo the hassle.

I think the solution to this is not legislation. If anything, if more people carried openly, everybody would get slowly used to a more pro-gun culture. In fact I would argue that's one of the big strengths of OC.

The last thing in the world we need is a legal system that tells us what is legal as opposed to what is illegal. If it is not illegal, it is legal. If it is not illegal, just what is a cop going to arrest you and charge you with? Even if the law explicity says OC is legal, it would not change anything. A rogue cop could still arrest you and charge you with whatever he was going to charge you with if OC is not on the books.

[Manedwolf]

If you all want it, maybe you'd best get it codified in your state laws.  Here in Pennsylvania, it isn't illegal because it isn't expressly forbidden in state law.  Even so, an awful lot of cops have a tendency to get overexcited at the sight of open carry.  This results in unpleasantry all around.  The carrier, absent any real wrongdoing, prevails; but that doesn't undo the hassle.

I think the solution to this is not legislation. If anything, if more people carried openly, everybody would get slowly used to a more pro-gun culture. In fact I would argue that's one of the big strengths of OC.

The last thing in the world we need is a legal system that tells us what is legal as opposed to what is illegal. If it is not illegal, it is legal. If it is not illegal, just what is a cop going to arrest you and charge you with? Even if the law explicity says OC is legal, it would not change anything. A rogue cop could still arrest you and charge you with whatever he was going to charge you with if OC is not on the books.

It's also not quite that straighforward. OC is legal here, but if someone is alarmed and calls the cops to report someone with a gun, you can still be arrested for disturbing the peace.

[Tallpine]

I truly don't understand why the pro-freedom crowd is so incapable of understanding incrementalism....

And I don't understand what's wrong with having ideals and goals

You can't get where you want to go without a destination in mind.

[freakazoid]

It's also not quite that straighforward. OC is legal here, but if someone is alarmed and calls the cops to report someone with a gun, you can still be arrested for disturbing the peace.

That is something that I have been wondering, could you still get fined and stuff for "disturbing the peace" for OC when it isn't said to be illegal, but also isn't saying that is legal.

[ilbob]

I love when people want to impose hurdles to exercising rights because they dream up a situation that's never happened. 

actually there is at least one case of an OCer in VA being mugged and his gun taken.

[MicroBalrog]

I love when people want to impose hurdles to exercising rights because they dream up a situation that's never happened. 

actually there is at least one case of an OCer in VA being mugged and his gun taken.

Unlike Balog, I do not doubt that such stuff has happened. There's even one recorded case of a woman having her gun taken away and used against her.

But that's not the point and you know it.