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Author Topic: Why do people want guns for when the SHTF?  (Read 4512 times)
fistful
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« on: September 24, 2005, 05:27:43 PM »

On THR, I hear much talk of the SHTF.  I am curious as to why firearms are desired for this possibility.  To me, some tarps, ponchos, or raincoats would be the right response, followed by cleaning equipment.

And why do so many seem to expect this problem?  Is this something peculiar to those who keep pet birds?  Or are monkeys throwing waste matter at fans?  Are the guns needed to shoot the birds and monkeys?

Any explanation is appreciated,

fistful
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« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2005, 05:42:54 PM »

I'd like to hear an argument similar to this one utilizing Fear, phallic symbols, and meaning-giving drama.
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Jack
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« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2005, 07:44:36 PM »

The veneer of civilization is thin in some places.

New Orleans is a classic example.  Gangs of looters started running around loose inside the first 24 hours and weren't controlled again for at least two weeks.  That's to be expected any time the gov't loses control of an area - and especially when there's a heavy dose of government-dependent people around who have no personal interest in their community because the gov't will give them something else if they burn what they've got.

Now that said: I don't think having guns around "just in case the SHTF" makes sense.  Rather, guns must be combined with a "pro-community mindset" and are the LAST element to that mindset.  It starts with knowing your neigbors, being alert to what's going on, known as being somebody who's worth a damn and cares about everything from crime on the street to crime in city hall.

WE are the militia.  The above isn't glamorous, it's kinda annoying at times, but it's what a free citizen genuinely living as the Founding Fathers intended does.  And if the formal gov't loses control of the community, the militia steps in...which is just another way of saying that the people with the most to lose step in and makes sure they don't collectively lose it.

On the other hand, people with nothing to lose don't act that way.  Which is the most dangerous thing about welfare in general.
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« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2005, 12:02:07 AM »

Quote from: fistful
On THR, I hear much talk of the SHTF.  I am curious as to why firearms are desired for this possibility.  To me, some tarps, ponchos, or raincoats would be the right response, followed by cleaning equipment.

And why do so many seem to expect this problem?  Is this something peculiar to those who keep pet birds?  Or are monkeys throwing waste matter at fans?  Are the guns needed to shoot the birds and monkeys?

Any explanation is appreciated,

fistful
All you have to do is watch what happened in New Orleans to answer your question.
Hell, people started looting in Beaumont during hurricane Rita.  Didn't even wait for the wind to stop.
If you expect to not have  some thug take your kid's food and water away, you best be prepared to defend yourself and your family.  
+1 on Jim March's comments.
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roo_ster
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« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2005, 01:21:57 AM »

"Anarchy: It looked great on paper."
----Rex*

Well, the anarchists** got what they said they wanted down in NO: minmal/nonexistent gov't presence.  The results of the experiment sure looked different from what they advertised.  IOW, their theory got run over by the bulldozer of reality.

Folks who see the need for a firearm during SHTF have some understanding of the nature of humanity.  Without the constant effort of the civilising forces in our society, we will end up in an anarchist dystopia that looks a lot like NO.  Technology may advance, but human nature is constant.

* After briefing Rex & a couple other buddies as to the history & circumstances of Europe's Dark Ages, Rex came out with that bit of wisdom.

**As opposed to the libertarians, who want the minimum amount of gov't necesary to enforce contracts and protect life, liberty, & property of the citizens
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« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2005, 02:05:31 AM »

Jim March's comments
+2

I was raised where firearms were part of the tools in the toolbox of stuff one kept handy. Knowledge , training and awareness were the biggest tools.

Sure water, canned goods, lanterns, candles, flashlights...you name it, etc., were great for Tornados, bad weather,loss of power, floods, ice storms and such. I recall very well having to use Firearms to make areas safe of snakes, after tornados and floods.  Folks having to protect property from looters when Mother nature was unkind. I know firsthand what a kid with a .22 lr revolver can do when his front door is brick- batted in during riots and he is in charge of the safety of 3 younger sibs. I was that kid.

We did not have 911 when I grew up. We did know our neighbors, we did have a plan and a  back up plan. We were not raised to "depend" on anyone but ourselves. We figured the authorities were kinda busy and their services were needed doing really important stuff.

Knowledge, training and awareness  comes into play of all the 'tools' one has, be it trimming a wick for a oil lamp, how to make a fire in a fireplace, how to cook on the fireplace, how to syphon gas for a generator, syphon water  from a jug, rain barrel, get a tarp to fix a hole in a roof, using a chainsaw...to knowing how to shoot.

Some elephants are bigger than others - they are all real to the individuals facing them at the time. There is not a set , or defined toolbox - for these elephants, never will be. Never hurts to borrow ideas and have some tools in that toolbox you may feel you may never need. Just have the knowledge, training and the wherewithall to use them if called upon.

Then again like the lady said " honey, with one of "those", you can get all of "them" ya want"  Cheesy
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Art Eatman
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« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2005, 02:07:16 AM »

fistful, pardon me if I appear a bit hostile, but how in the world can you ask that question after the amount of news on the Internet and TV and in the papers about the aftermath of Katrina in New Orleans?   Can you not relate the robberies and murders there, with your own little piece of the world?

You never heard of the LA riots after the Rodney King trial?

And you don't need the sort of societal breakdown of SHTF.  There's plenty of reason for the capability of armed self defense, in each and every daily newspaper...

Art
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Antibubba
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« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2005, 02:55:52 AM »

Because when a piece of human scum is raping your child, you need to do more than cover it over with a tarp.
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Mike Irwin
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« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2005, 03:53:49 AM »

The bad juju that went on after Hurricane Katrina, in the shelters and the looting, the riots and looting that went on in L.A. after Rodney King trial verdict, the looting and crime that went on after Hurrican Andrew in Florida...

Those are mini *expletive deleted* it hitting the fan scenarios. Wouldn't YOU want to be armed and able to protect yourself if you were in such a scenario?

Or would you just meekly raise your hands, wait for the police, and beg someone not to hurt you or your equally defenseless family members?

Did you even WATCH the news and see the looting, or the interviews with some of the people who were in the Superdome or the Civic Center?

Back in 1992 or so, there were the Cinco De Mayo riots in Washington, DC. During the second night of riots there was a LOT of looting and burning of stores and property along the 16th Street corridor.

Even the Washington Post mentioned that one of the only stores to be spared along a large segment of looted and burned out stores was the one where the owner was camped out in front with a shotgun.

When it snows, you get a snow shovel.

When it rains, you get a poncho.

When civil order starts crumbling around you, you get a gun, or you get to be a victim.


Jesus, after the past 3 weeks, it just baffles me that there are still people who are aparently so freaking clueless.
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« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2005, 03:56:01 AM »

Don't worry, Fistful, *I* got it.

I laughed so hard I snorfed my coffee.

Some folks around these parts need a humor infusion.
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« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2005, 04:07:08 AM »

I think it would be easier to just move the fan! Saves on ammunition, too!
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SADShooter
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« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2005, 04:08:33 AM »

Good case for an irony smiley.
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Justin
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« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2005, 05:23:05 AM »

Quote
Good case for an irony smiley.
Don'cha think?

/I'm so sorry
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Standing Wolf
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« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2005, 06:06:07 AM »

Quote
...I don't think having guns around "just in case the SHTF" makes sense.  Rather, guns must be combined with a "pro-community mindset" and are the LAST element to that mindset.
I concur. As far as I'm concerned, everybody ought to have a first aid kit, flash light, spare clothing, spare tire, fire extinguishers, a gun or two, et cetera. An awful lot of people seem to believe emergencies happen only to other people.
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garyk/nm
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« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2005, 07:05:55 AM »

Reading for comprehension....try it sometime, folks.

Good one, fistful. Still laughing.
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« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2005, 07:16:54 AM »

Amazingly, there IS a working anarchy in the US, a place where the government isn't in control at all and it mostly does OK.  It's inhabited (well, part of the year anyways) by people who are extremely self sufficient and boasts churches, a library, a community comm system based on CB radio broadcasts...it's...something I intend to study up close at some point, on vacation or something.  And it's in California of all places.

It's called Slab City:

http://vagabonders-supreme.net/SlabCity.htm

http://www.slabcity.org/

http://www.desertusa.com/mag05/feb/slab.html

http://www.clui.org/clui_4_1/lotl/lotlsp96/slab.html

If you go: don't forget to bring a few gallons of paint for Leonard.  Any kind, he doesn't care Smiley.

And yeah, bring a gun or two, but you probably won't need 'em.  Most urban areas are more dangerous.
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thorn
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« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2005, 07:46:08 AM »

im still trying to figure out where all these turd throwing monkeys come from all of a sudden.
that really does sound messy.
i think once a monkey has a hand full of turd, it might be times to shoot it before it really gets out of hand.

that's why you need the gun first. the cleaning supplies are secondary, although perhaps the poncho.....
so yeah, keep a ponch in your pocket would be the moral of the story here i guess.
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Silver Bullet
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« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2005, 07:46:42 AM »

And, as someone once observed, "When it hits the fan, it won't be distributed evenly."
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gaston_45
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« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2005, 03:43:27 PM »

Thorn, is that a poncho in your pocket or are you happy to see the monkey??
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fistful
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« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2005, 03:39:05 AM »

This barbaric resort to violence is precisely what is wrong with this sick country.  How many times must the blood of birds and monkeys run in the streets, until we learn to get along?

I will pray for you all.
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fistful
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« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2005, 03:41:25 AM »

fistful, your a stupid blissninny moron.
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client32
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« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2005, 04:21:21 AM »

fistful, it is worng for you to talk down and insult fistful that way.  fistful was simply trying to ask a question, and you come here and use names like blissninny moron.  I am ashamed.  angry

I'm still laughing as well.  As to resorting to violence, if you can calmly talk a monkey out of slinging poop then maybe you can teach us, but until then.......
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« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2005, 04:48:49 AM »

Quote from: fistful
on THR, I hear much talk of the SHTF.  I am curious as to why firearms are desired for this possibility.  To me, some tarps, ponchos, or raincoats would be the right response, followed by cleaning equipment.
THR is a gun forum, not a tarp, pancho or raincoat forum. So you go there to discuss guns.

If you'll look a little closer then you'll see that there is plenty of discussion of other SHTF equipment.


Of course the references to birds and monkeys makes me think ole fistful hit a bowl full of "interstate commerce" before he posted Tongue
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Strings
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« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2005, 05:00:35 AM »

You better be careful of them tarps, fistful: TCI (Tarp Control Inc) said that you're 57% more likely to be involved in a dangerous covering if you have a tarp in your home. But if you MUST have one, it should be stored in a locking cabinet, seperate from it's ropes. And for gods sake, keep it away from the kids!
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Silver Bullet
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« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2005, 05:23:26 AM »

Quote
THR is a gun forum, not a tarp, pancho or raincoat forum.
Absolutely right.  In fact, here's a raincoat forum:

http://hazard.com/forum/read.php?f=2&i=68&t=68

I'll bet they would appreciate posts along the lines of "What kind of raincoat is best when the SHTF?"  I would think it would tend to expand their consciousness about the utility of raincoats.  :/
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