continuation of thr thread about to be closed

[ilbob]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=4929614#post4929614

[grampster]

The OP makes a good point about not listening to what the pols say, rather look at what they have done.

If every American took the time to do this, no one but a flaming socialist would vote for Obama/Biden.  The record is that clear.

[209]

It takes more than voting in the President.  There's a whole slew of other pols who need to be voted out.  There 35 Senator seats up for election and 435 Representative seats to be filled.  I doubt we'll see a major change though.

If Obama got elected and the Senate and House were against him, he could go down in history as the worst President we ever had.  Likewise if McCain makes it and both chambers are Dem, he'll either fold to their wishes or he'll be viewed as a bad President. 

[freedom lover]

Quote from the OP:

What can we do to make the Democratic party drop the issue of gun banning?

Nothing. They are devoted to their own illogical philosophical ideals and only interested in their party's well being and personal power. Most Dems and other politicians have lost touch with reality, honesty, and history. They don't care about the common man. This should be obvious to any knowledgeable citizen.

As it has been stated before, we must seek out truth and find out what politicians' records consist of before we vote.

[MechAg94]

I agree on just not voting for them.  To me, gun control is a good litmus test for politicians.  It tells you something about their view of citizens and the public and the role of government. 

My problem with gun banners is not only gun control, but that type also seem to be soft on crime and criminal punishment, and also want to pull back on law enforcement.  The net effect is they disarm citizens and enable criminals.  IMO, that is the main reason that crime is worse in areas with gun control.  It is the combination of dumb ideas, not just one thing. 

[oldfart]

"It takes more than voting in the President.  There's a whole slew of other pols who need to be voted out.  There 35 Senator seats up for election and 435 Representative seats to be filled.  I doubt we'll see a major change though.


I think the problem is even more basic that what you describe.  Suppose we were able to throw out all 535 or so elected officials at once and install brand new, fresh-faced neophytes in their places.  Those new legislators would need staff.  They'd need people who knew where the better bars were, which street to take to get home, what neighborhoods to stay out of, etc.  Those staff members (whose names we'll probably never know) are also the people who write legislation, interpret rules and advise their boss.  And those people stay there through one administration after another, giving the same advice to each occupant of the office.

Let's face it folks:  The President isn't going to change much beyond the curtains and the same can be said for Senators and Congresscritters.  Maybe, someday in the far distant future someone will determine that what we really needed was a nuclear strike on Washington D.C.

[Matthew Carberry]

The reason we need a huge bureaucracy that resists change is not due to the country getting bigger or the world getting more complex, it is simply because we have allowed the Feds to take on far more than their Constitutional list of duties.

Reduce those back to something remotely related to the Connie and the bureaucracy would dry up.

The fix isn't to "vote the bastards out", it's to cut the excess growth back, that will remove the opportunities for corruption to a great degree.

[kentucky_Dave]

Well this issue is tough.
(Please bear with me as I do my very best to contain myself and not begin a rant on just how bad our supposed leaders have gotten)

I have voted Democrat in every election cycle...until this one.
I left the Party for 3 primary reasons (others not listed):

• Because the party has changed so much, the core values appear to have shifted.
  
• Their refusal to nominate valid candidates with true leadership ability and not standing up to the media ignoring viable candidates (YES the DEM party too)
  
  • At that time, there was a candidate who intended to step up and stop the irresponsible utopia dreaming and spending that is running our country into the dirt.
  
  
  My union family has always been hardcore Dem and always voted that way for worker's wellbeing and compensation issues.
  That previous alliance seems to have eroded into the party trying to be everything to everyone regardless of cost or future effect, socialist tendencies that lack any sort of realist comprehension and gigantic government agencies intended to regulate everything under the sun, not just the markets and corporations.
  
  Since when is the Democratic Party about banning rights?
  Since when is the Democratic Party focused on a single race?
  Never before today.
  This isn't black and white, but they are shifting it that way.
  The party has been hijacked plain and simple.
  
  The Republican Party is equally twisted out of sorts too.
  
  There is no denying it, we have one party with 2 sides, and both equally determined to lob distractions at us while they race toward reduction of or elimination of our national identity to make us more like Europe with a socialist / marxist slant.
  THAT IS SCARY.
  
  All of my family is pro 2a and would NEVER support restrictions of firearms...nor will they support the dem party of today, because the party does not represent them any longer.
  BOTH parties represent a catering service to the special interest groups.
  
  To bring the party back, as stated somewhat previously, we need REAL leaders as candidates, who are willing to treat the public as adults, spell out that we have BIG problems to solve, take responsibility for the current problems (BOTH parties) and stop lobbing in distractions from the real problems.
  
  Future leaders need (among other things) to face the reality that:
  
  1. Our country was founded by strong men with guns
  2. Those strong and armed men were responsible for throwing off an oppressive over taxing government
  3. Throwing off such a government is OUR right and being armed is instrumental in providing the appropriate leverage to ensure that Washington says in line and keeps the interest of the people at heart.
  4. Both parties are claiming to tax the rich but that is never going to happen people.
  Those rich people control the country and every job in it.
  5. People know the intent is to lower the definition of rich for the tax hike and the “middle class” will suffer.
  6. Taxing and regulating the people into poverty to create the need for government assistance is NOT the American dream
  7. Taking away rights of the Americans is NOT the role of the government; the role is to responsibly look after the interest and future of its citizens
  8. They cannot tax us into prosperity
  9. They cannot start any new entitlement programs until they figure out how to fix the current ones they mismanaged
  10. They cannot lie and expect no consequence (they MUST be held accountable)
  11. Nationalizing healthcare can't work, because they have proven that government lacks the ability to efficiently manage.
  12. Raising minimum wage and then taxing it out of the people is NOT a solution, and the people are starting to figure that out
  13. Paying more taxes is NOT patriotic in any way. Being armed and defending our country IS and is our right.
  14.  Americans do not want to be the police of the world, or the nannies, or lower our standard of living to support oppressed nations unless that contribution to the other nation is VOLUNTARY on the part of the people.  We don’t need the government to decide for us.  Ask us and see if anyone donates to the proposed cause.
  See how much the people crying the loudest contribute…you will be surprised by crickets and NO MONEY coming forth.
  
  If they cannot see that, they are not true Americans and probably would not fight for America anyway.
  
  If the politicians would address the real problems: GROSS MISMANAGEMENT AND OVERSPENDING by both parties, they would not have time to consider a ban on any guns.
  
  It is not that simple, but in effect it really is.
  
  Congress is not doing it's job.
  We need to run them off and put people in that WILL do their job.
  
  Pitchforks and torches…oh wait…they have APC’s, bradleys and Big guns…then be smart and get involved at the local level to ensure that only honest and morally sound people are elected.
  Keep them accountable in all things and call them out when they vary from the straight and true.
  
  We need to nominate Presidential candidates, regardless of party, who have the nerve to stand up FOR us, not allow the congress to over regulate us because the special interest groups want it.
  
  And about polls.
  Polls are fabricated works of fiction used to shape elections in favor of the person presenting the poll.
  PURE FICTION.
  They supposedly call people, people that will answer favorably for them, and compile the results to report on the television.
  Consider this: 
  
  The television is the root of the rampant moral degratation due to the perception of acceptability.
  The content that is displayed on the screens across America has led to the acceptance of immoral behavior, a benchmark for increasingly inappropriate clothing and a source of sexual exposure on it's shows that teaches the young people of today that engagement in such behavior is acceptable, because it's on the TV (America’s babysitter).
  That box and the newspapers are the source for so many misguided Americans views on politics.
  It's the  "The TV said it, it must be true" mindset: Positively Sickening.
  
  Sex and nudity all over the place and approved by a rating "Authority" to be appropriate for ages around 13.
  Give me a break.
  
  In that light, can the tv be trusted to provide an objective point of view on any candidate?
  Hardly.
  
  

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Hey dave I've never voted for a democrat at the national level though that could change but I could apply better than 85% of what you said and make it stick to the republican party. Its why I wish for a VIABLE third menu choice. Sadly i'm still waiting.
Maybe if both sides alienate enough of their base they will create that third party. since thus far the third parties seem to need the help.  It could end up being like what old man marriot said about unions. "unions don't need to recruit poor management does it for them" It might just be me but I seem to find more disaffected folks than ever on both sides of the aisle.

[drewtam]

The reason we need a huge bureaucracy that resists change is not due to the country getting bigger or the world getting more complex, it is simply because we have allowed the Feds to take on far more than their Constitutional list of duties.

Reduce those back to something remotely related to the Connie and the bureaucracy would dry up.

The fix isn't to "vote the bastards out", it's to cut the excess growth back, that will remove the opportunities for corruption to a great degree.

Talk about hitting the nail on the head.

Power corrupts. Of course big money goes after lobbying! They make the rules of what you can and can't do! Any business and poltical group would be insane not to try influencing the people who carry absolute power over their being. When the taxes are that high and power is that concentrate, of course everyone tries to plead the case that they are special and need tax breaks and subsidies to survive. Farmers needs tax breaks and subsidies, Manufacturing needs tax breaks and subsidies, Financial markets needs subsidies, Service industry needs tax breaks and subsidies. Everyone is special and needs a break so they all need to lobby to get it done.

Keep your eye on the ball and remember the big five:
1, Social Security
2, Medicare, Medicaid
3, DoD
4, Interest on debt
5, Everything else

To repeat what carebear said, if the power wasn't there, nobody else would be either.