Author Topic: Venezuela shuts down McDonald's  (Read 7688 times)

Don't care

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 486
Venezuela shuts down McDonald's
« on: October 10, 2008, 12:01:07 PM »
Venezuela's government has shut all branches of restaurant chain McDonald's for 48 hours, citing tax irregularities, officials have said.

For the story:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7663951.stm

Chavez often pulls stunts as this, just before he nationalizes that particular business or industry. I suspect that he uses his "tax audit" as a means to get a look at the business financials. However, given the unique makeup of McDonald's products, how would he plan to replenish the product without significantly changing it?

The United States has yet in recent times, gone to war with any country that has invested a significant FDI in a U.S. based corporation. I suspect that this may just be another warning signal of an armed conflict between the United States and Venezuela.

Not that Chavez won't deserve getting his ass kicked.


K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,440
  • I Am Inimical
Re: Venezuela shuts down McDonald's
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2008, 12:09:16 PM »
Not a political topic.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

RocketMan

  • Mad Rocket Scientist
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,634
  • Semper Fidelis
Re: Venezuela shuts down McDonald's
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2008, 01:49:44 PM »
Chavez nationalizes McDonalds.  McDonalds stops sending in proprietary supplies necessary to the operation of their business.  All the nationalized McDonalds outlets then shut down.  Chavez is left with squat.  Too bad.
Although it will be hard on the folks that earn a wage working in those places.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

2swap

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 134
  • : 4 5 ;
Re: Venezuela shuts down McDonald's
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2008, 01:56:16 PM »
But then, if McD really cheated taxes or conducted other financial irregularities, it deserves to be punished. *shrugs*
: spin
  92 47 124 45 45 58 emit dup emit emit
  begin 8 emit dup emit swap 2swap key? until ;

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: Venezuela shuts down McDonald's
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2008, 02:00:05 PM »
Chavez nationalizes McDonalds.  McDonalds stops sending in proprietary supplies necessary to the operation of their business.  All the nationalized McDonalds outlets then shut down.  Chavez is left with squat.  Too bad.
Although it will be hard on the folks that earn a wage working in those places.

And if Hugo just subbed in local equivalents? I mean really, how "proprietary" can burgers and fries be?
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

RocketMan

  • Mad Rocket Scientist
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,634
  • Semper Fidelis
Re: Venezuela shuts down McDonald's
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2008, 02:00:48 PM »
But then, if McD really cheated taxes or conducted other financial irregularities, it deserves to be punished. *shrugs*

Sure, but I would trust the honesty of the McDonalds folks before I'd trust Chavez about anything.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

RocketMan

  • Mad Rocket Scientist
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,634
  • Semper Fidelis
Re: Venezuela shuts down McDonald's
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2008, 02:02:39 PM »
And if Hugo just subbed in local equivalents? I mean really, how "proprietary" can burgers and fries be?

Your basic burger patties and french fries aren't.  But there are many proprietary supplies used in a typical chain eatery that are crucial to its brand and image. Those would go away, and so would the brand and image.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

Manedwolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,516
Re: Venezuela shuts down McDonald's
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2008, 02:03:53 PM »
And if Hugo just subbed in local equivalents? I mean really, how "proprietary" can burgers and fries be?

"Que es este carne?"
"Este carne es de rata."
"Rat? This is a rat burger?"

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: Venezuela shuts down McDonald's
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2008, 02:11:26 PM »
Your basic burger patties and french fries aren't.  But there are many proprietary supplies used in a typical chain eatery that are crucial to its brand and image. Those would go away, and so would the brand and image.

Like what? I'm honestly curious about what McD's stuff would be irrevocably damaged by creative subbing. Esp in a 3rd world situation where you don't have a lot of options.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

2swap

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 134
  • : 4 5 ;
Re: Venezuela shuts down McDonald's
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2008, 02:16:15 PM »
Sure, but I would trust the honesty of the McDonalds folks before I'd trust Chavez about anything.
A strategy of the second order could then mean that the company will do creative accounting or inventive taxes because everyone will think it is a wrong accusation of Chavez anyways. (My own opinion in this matter is 'more data needed', I just hate tax-cheaters)
: spin
  92 47 124 45 45 58 emit dup emit emit
  begin 8 emit dup emit swap 2swap key? until ;

buzz_knox

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 357
Re: Venezuela shuts down McDonald's
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2008, 02:17:34 PM »
He's pulling a variant of the Jesse Jackson funding model:  give me what I want and I'll go away.

He shuts down Mickey D's due to "irregularities."  Mickey D's says "we're terribly sorry, what is the dollar value of the irregularities?"  Chavez responds with a figure which Mickey D's pays, and the stores are reopened.  Chavez's rainy day fund gets expanded.

Typical third world (or Chicago) shakedown.

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: Venezuela shuts down McDonald's
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2008, 02:18:59 PM »
A strategy of the second order could then mean that the company will do creative accounting or inventive taxes because everyone will think it is a wrong accusation of Chavez anyways. (My own opinion in this matter is 'more data needed', I just hate tax-cheaters)

The problem is two fold.

One, the local restaurant branches are likely not owned by McD - it operates on a franchise system. Do you think it is okay to screw over the local owners because of something the company did?

Second, McD is likely being attacked not just because it is a restaurant, but because it is a symbol.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2008, 02:51:33 PM by MicroBalrog »
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

buzz_knox

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 357
Re: Venezuela shuts down McDonald's
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2008, 02:19:55 PM »
A strategy of the second order could then mean that the company will do creative accounting or inventive taxes because everyone will think it is a wrong accusation of Chavez anyways. (My own opinion in this matter is 'more data needed', I just hate tax-cheaters)

The counter argument is that given who Chavez is, screwing around is likely to get someone (i.e. the local individuals who would need to be in on "cooking" the books) killed.

2swap

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 134
  • : 4 5 ;
Re: Venezuela shuts down McDonald's
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2008, 02:39:06 PM »
The problem is two fold.

One, the local restaurant branches are likely not owned by McD - it operates on a franchise system. Do you think it is okay to screw over the local owners because of something the company did?
If the knowingly cooperated, otherwise not.

Second, McD is likely being attacked not just because it is a restaurant, but because it is a symbol.
Well, maybe, OTOH, I am probably guided by fear. If such a symbol made real tax and or balance fraud, the trust in the big companies would dwindle even further. Thus, I guess I imagined the worst case. As I said. I was only speculating.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2008, 05:16:08 PM by 2swap »
: spin
  92 47 124 45 45 58 emit dup emit emit
  begin 8 emit dup emit swap 2swap key? until ;

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Venezuela shuts down McDonald's
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2008, 02:46:03 PM »
Smells like a shakedown to me.

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,440
  • I Am Inimical
Re: Venezuela shuts down McDonald's
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2008, 02:49:04 PM »
Language, Micro...

We all need to watch our language...
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

Brad Johnson

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,091
  • Witty, charming, handsome, and completely insane.
Re: Venezuela shuts down McDonald's
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2008, 02:51:48 PM »
He'll kick out the owners, nationalize it, and reopen.  It will still say McDonalds and will serve a facsmile of the current product, only it will all be produced and supplied by Chavez.  Not only will he get money from the supplies, he takes all the money from the retail side.

He doesn't give a rats rip whether or not McDonalds corporate has a problem with it.  He's a shakedown artist writ large who, unfortunately, has enough power to get away with it.  The only way to make him go away is to truly make him "go away".

Brad
« Last Edit: October 10, 2008, 02:55:03 PM by Brad Johnson »
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
-HankB

RocketMan

  • Mad Rocket Scientist
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,634
  • Semper Fidelis
Re: Venezuela shuts down McDonald's
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2008, 02:58:45 PM »
Like what? I'm honestly curious about what McD's stuff would be irrevocably damaged by creative subbing. Esp in a 3rd world situation where you don't have a lot of options.

There are proprietary food receipes and ingredients, I'm sure, but many of those could be creatively substituted for over the short term.

The branded non-food items are often more important to the image that a chain eatery projects.  Everything from advertising to signage, packaging materials, cups and cutlery, interior decorations, etc.  The list can be very extensive.
For some companies, there are special tools and equipment used to prepare food items unique to that establishment.  If those tools cannot be repaired or replaced, then signature food items go off the menu.

If important brand-establishing items go away, then so does the brand.  If the brand goes away, then so does much of the original appeal for patronizing an establishment.

In this case the only thing left would be the "McDonalds" sign over the door.  Everything else about the place would be different, non-brand.  It wouldn't be "McDonalds" anymore.

Edited to add:
Mind you, I am not saying Mickey D's is a good place to eat.  In truth, I can hardly stand the joint, and eat there only in extremis.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

Brad Johnson

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,091
  • Witty, charming, handsome, and completely insane.
Re: Venezuela shuts down McDonald's
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2008, 03:02:05 PM »
There are proprietary food receipes and ingredients, I'm sure, but many of those could be creatively substituted for over the short term.

The branded non-food items are often more important to the image that a chain eatery projects.  Everything from advertising to signage, packaging materials, cups and cutlery, interior decorations, etc.  The list can be very extensive.
For some companies, there are special tools and equipment used to prepare food items unique to that establishment.  If those tools cannot be repaired or replaced, then signature food items go off the menu.

You presume that the populace would know the difference (which they should) and that they have the power do do a damn thing about it (which they don't).

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
-HankB

RocketMan

  • Mad Rocket Scientist
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,634
  • Semper Fidelis
Re: Venezuela shuts down McDonald's
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2008, 03:07:59 PM »
You presume that the populace would know the difference (which they should) and that they have the power do do a damn thing about it (which they don't).

Brad

True.  Whether they would choose to continue patronizing the local McD's after Chavez makes them his own, is one of those "We'll have to wait and see what happens" things.

Hmmm...I wonder if suggestions would be made to the locals that continued patronage is...advisable?  Would Chavez stoop that low?
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

Brad Johnson

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,091
  • Witty, charming, handsome, and completely insane.
Re: Venezuela shuts down McDonald's
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2008, 03:24:56 PM »
Hmmm...I wonder if suggestions would be made to the locals that continued patronage is...advisable?  Would Chavez stoop that low?

Yes.

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
-HankB

Regolith

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,171
Re: Venezuela shuts down McDonald's
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2008, 04:29:39 PM »
RocketMan:  I worked in a McDonald's for about two years during high school.  This was around 4-6 years ago.  There really isn't any equipment that couldn't be copied or subbed out, and copying a logo isn't that hard.

The quality might change a bit, but other than that, I don't see anything stopping Chavez if that's what he wanted to do.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. - Thomas Jefferson

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt the Younger

Perfectly symmetrical violence never solved anything. - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

RocketMan

  • Mad Rocket Scientist
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,634
  • Semper Fidelis
Re: Venezuela shuts down McDonald's
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2008, 04:34:24 PM »
RocketMan:  I worked in a McDonald's for about two years during high school.  This was around 4-6 years ago.  There really isn't any equipment that couldn't be copied or subbed out, and copying a logo isn't that hard.

The quality might change a bit, but other than that, I don't see anything stopping Chavez if that's what he wanted to do.

You'll notice that I said, "For some companies there are special...".   When I wrote that I was not refering to McDonalds in particular.  However, the rest does still apply.  It just may not be readily apparent when one is flipping burgers.  (Not meant as a dig at you, Regolith.)
If you stay with a company long enough to move up from the trenches, these things eventually become understood.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2008, 04:39:04 PM by RocketMan »
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

Manedwolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,516
Re: Venezuela shuts down McDonald's
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2008, 04:36:28 PM »
It is fitting, in a way.

The chain was just taken over by a new clown.

RocketMan

  • Mad Rocket Scientist
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,634
  • Semper Fidelis
Re: Venezuela shuts down McDonald's
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2008, 04:39:59 PM »
It is fitting, in a way.

The chain was just taken over by a new clown.

That gets a chuckle.  :D
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.