Author Topic: 106 year old Nun to vote for Obama  (Read 3547 times)

Don't care

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106 year old Nun to vote for Obama
« on: October 12, 2008, 11:25:41 PM »
Her first vote since Eisenhower in 1952.

Its a good thing that she won't have to rely on Obama's "health care plan", or his stance on personal protection, or anything else American for that matter; lest she might feel differently.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7665925.stm

AZRedhawk44

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Re: 106 year old Nun to vote for Obama
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2008, 11:28:46 PM »
And she won't have to worry about his stance on abortion clashing with that of the Church... =|

Blissninny nun.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
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MicroBalrog

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Re: 106 year old Nun to vote for Obama
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2008, 12:05:23 AM »
WEll, she's older than most people on this site - clearly she knows better.  =D =D

Also, Don't care, you need to adjust your sig line - THR is now down to $27,743/
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TommyGunn

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Re: 106 year old Nun to vote for Obama
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2008, 04:33:42 PM »
There's an old saying; "there's no fool like an old fool."


Now, all I have to do is avoid nuns with rulers .......  :O =D
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

ilbob

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Re: 106 year old Nun to vote for Obama
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2008, 04:40:24 PM »
Didn't the pope state at one time that voting for pro-abortion politicians was a ex-communication offense?
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agricola

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Re: 106 year old Nun to vote for Obama
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2008, 05:19:47 PM »
Didn't the pope state at one time that voting for pro-abortion politicians was a ex-communication offense?

IIRC it still is, in most circumstances. 
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cosine

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Re: 106 year old Nun to vote for Obama
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2008, 06:26:20 PM »
Didn't the pope state at one time that voting for pro-abortion politicians was a ex-communication offense?

Voting for a pro-abortion politician because the politician is pro-abortion incurs automatic excommunication. This stems from the same line of reasoning that concludes procuring an abortion or assisting one in procuring an abortion incurs automatic excommunication. If one votes for a pro-abortion politician because he or she is pro-abortion, it is considered to be the same as assisting someone in procuring an abortion.

Voting for a pro-abortion politician for other reasons, such as the politician's stance on other moral or social issues, excommunication is not necessarily incurred. In this case one's reason for voting for this politician is not because the politician is pro-abortion but for other reasons one's conscience has concluded to be equal in gravity to the issue of abortion, and one has concluded that this politician will do good in these areas, even if the politician is pro-abortion.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2008, 06:30:06 PM by cosine »
Andy

AZRedhawk44

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Re: 106 year old Nun to vote for Obama
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2008, 06:37:36 PM »
Voting for a pro-abortion politician because the politician is pro-abortion incurs automatic excommunication. This stems from the same line of reasoning that concludes procuring an abortion or assisting one in procuring an abortion incurs automatic excommunication. If one votes for a pro-abortion politician because he or she is pro-abortion, it is considered to be the same as assisting someone in procuring an abortion.

Voting for a pro-abortion politician for other reasons, such as the politician's stance on other moral or social issues, excommunication is not necessarily incurred. In this case one's reason for voting for this politician is not because the politician is pro-abortion but for other reasons one's conscience has concluded to be equal in gravity to the issue of abortion, and one has concluded that this politician will do good in these areas, even if the politician is pro-abortion.

So the Church has come out and said that "Murder via abortion (and supporting lawmakers who endorse this) is okay as long as your moral compass is so whacked that taxes or civil issues are more important to you than murder and are therefore a more dangerous social issue to address?"

That's pretty screwed up logic on their part.  If you hold as doctrine that abortion = evil as the Church does, and it is so vile and unforgiveable that you are to be excommunicated for it but not for confessing to the murder of your fellow living and breathing man... how can endorsement of any abortion friendly candidate possibly stand?
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

cosine

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Re: 106 year old Nun to vote for Obama
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2008, 06:46:10 PM »
So the Church has come out and said that "Murder via abortion (and supporting lawmakers who endorse this) is okay as long as your moral compass is so whacked that taxes or civil issues are more important to you than murder and are therefore a more dangerous social issue to address?"

That's pretty screwed up logic on their part.  If you hold as doctrine that abortion = evil as the Church does, and it is so vile and unforgiveable that you are to be excommunicated for it but not for confessing to the murder of your fellow living and breathing man... how can endorsement of any abortion friendly candidate possibly stand?

It's more of an issue of mercy on the part of the Church to those with a whacked moral compass. The Church tries to avoid excommunicating because of the seriousness of excommunication and the usual involved steps an individual needs to take to have an excommunication lifted. In essence, the Church tries to avoid excommunicating someone unless the individual knows that their actions will incur excommunication. Also, taxes and civil issues are not usually considered to be of gravity to the issue of abortion. Other moral issues, such as homosexual marriage, or justice to the poor and oppressed are usually considered to have to come into play in some practical manner.

By the way, because abortion is so predominant in our society confessing to having assisted in procuring an abortion lifts the excommunication, just as confessing to murder of one's fellow man forgives the sin.

Let's briefly address what an excommunication is. Being excommunicated is not simply a declaration of "oh, you did something bad, you're excommunicated." Being excommunicated is something extremely grave and serious. Being excommunicated is being cut off from the life of the Church, and by being cut of from the life of the Church that means being cut off from the means of salvation. In the eyes of the Church, this is an extremely serious matter. For that reason, the Church tries to avoid excommunicating it's members unless an individual has done something extremely heinous with deliberation and intent to do such a heinous act. The Church does not want to cut off it's members from their means of salvation unless they commit such a heinous act with such deliberation and intent that they are seen to be directly intending to oppose the Church's position on some moral or doctrinal matter. For this reason the Church tries everything in it's power to avoid excommunicating it's members, preferring instead to treat them with love and mercy in the hope that they will seek forgiveness and return to Christ and the Church.

Remember, the Church is not meant to be a machine of condemnation, but a community of love and forgiveness whose purpose is to bring the sinner back to Christ.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2008, 06:59:01 PM by cosine »
Andy

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Re: 106 year old Nun to vote for Obama
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2008, 06:53:19 PM »
United Fund used that screwed up logic when I refused to participate when I was working.  I had some conversations with others in my office and explained that I called around to select United Fund organizations that they funded.  I asked if they did abortions and was answered in the affirmative.  I let folks know that, as UF was denying they supported organizations that did abortions.  The chair of UF called me and demanded that I retract what I was saying because they did not support organizations that performed abortions.  I told him to bite me, that I was telling the truth and that he was the liar, and why.  He hung up on me at that point. =D

UF said I could direct my money to specific groups if I objected to some groups they funded.  I responded that because United Fund may hand out a loaf of bread with one hand, that did not, in my view, balance out the dead baby in the other hand.
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

Don't care

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Re: 106 year old Nun to vote for Obama
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2008, 07:17:22 PM »
......the Church tries everything in it's power to avoid excommunicating it's members, preferring instead to treat them with love and mercy in the hope that they will seek forgiveness and return to Christ and the Church.

However, as I recall, the Archbishop of Boston stated that Senator John Kerry should abstain from Holy Communion because of his contrary view of that of the Church's.

Tallpine

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Re: 106 year old Nun to vote for Obama
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2008, 09:14:09 PM »
Well, I have the honor of once being excommunicated from an "orthodox" church, for not giving them money  :rolleyes:
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

K Frame

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Re: 106 year old Nun to vote for Obama
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2008, 10:50:11 AM »
"Let's briefly address what an excommunication is."

Toll the bell, close the book, snuff the candle.

I excommunicate this thread to the Round Table.
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taurusowner

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Re: 106 year old Nun to vote for Obama
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2008, 12:52:09 PM »
However, as I recall, the Archbishop of Boston stated that Senator John Kerry should abstain from Holy Communion because of his contrary view of that of the Church's.

That's a step beneath excommunication.  A suspension of sorts as opposed to outright expulsion.