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Author Topic: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank envisions post-election stimulus from Democrats  (Read 18497 times)
agricola
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« Reply #50 on: October 28, 2008, 10:15:49 AM »

Back to the original topic-

When the Dems start handing out the post-halloween "candy", I'm buying another gun.

Somehow, all the Obama supporters assuring me that "He believes in the Second Amendment" doesn't ease my fears.

Here's to a new AR-15 for my wife!

Indeed.  "He believes in the Second Amendment" probably just means that he recognizes that it exists. 
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Manedwolf
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« Reply #51 on: October 28, 2008, 10:25:43 AM »

Indeed.  "He believes in the Second Amendment" probably just means that he recognizes that it exists. 

And that its intent is to allow hunters to have single-shot long guns to shoot at ducks.
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MicroBalrog
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« Reply #52 on: October 28, 2008, 10:27:51 AM »

And that its intent is to allow hunters to have single-shot long guns to shoot at ducks.

Would this qualify as a single-shot duck rifle, all Clinton-style?
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Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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roo_ster
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« Reply #53 on: October 28, 2008, 11:20:43 AM »

I would think some STOL jets that could land/TO on roads would be a better investment than a carrier and a fleet of ships to protect it.  :|

(doesn't Finland or somebody have jets parked in old barns ready to take off on a nearby road Huh? )

Good point.  Hopefully, the Israeli ABM radar are also mobile.
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roo_ster

ôFallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.ö
----G.K. Chesterton
ArmedBear
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« Reply #54 on: October 28, 2008, 11:50:10 AM »

If anyone knows about selling stimulus, it's Barney Frank. cheesy
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seeker_two
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« Reply #55 on: October 28, 2008, 01:18:55 PM »

And that its intent is to allow hunters to have single-shot long guns to shoot at ducks.

...but not hit them....that would make the animal-rights people cry....  :rolleyes:

If anyone knows about selling stimulus, it's Barney Frank. cheesy

It's AB for the win.....  laugh
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Regolith
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« Reply #56 on: October 28, 2008, 05:30:53 PM »

Yay. Amtrak money suck X10000000. Tongue

You are aware that NO passenger rail is profitable and all are massive toilet-flushes of subsidized funds, right?

I'm pretty certain Japan does.  But that's because they pack their trains like cattle cars.
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agricola
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« Reply #57 on: October 28, 2008, 06:08:17 PM »

I'm pretty certain Japan does.  But that's because they pack their trains like cattle cars.

Actually the British rail network was profitable up until the tail end of the 1950s, and would probably have continued to be had the Government not intervened in order to score political points by forcing BR to fix fares. 

Of course, they then proceeded to deliberately (and in the teeth of severe public opposition) trash the system so severely it has taken forty years to recover (and a partial recovery at that, since the Tory privatization managed to combine the worst aspects of private ownership with the worst aspects of state ownership), all the while demonstrating the improved profitability of road travel by sinking (and continuing to sink) billions and billions of pounds of public money into it.   
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Matthew Carberry
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« Reply #58 on: October 28, 2008, 07:54:17 PM »

With flight being so expensive and time consuming now, I think a high-speed rail network, if it terminated near, say, airports, to take advantage of existing rental car infrastructure would work.

I'm wondering if the old "rail won't pay for itself" numbers might have changed in the past year or so with gas getting more expensive.

If I have a 3 hour flight with an hour of airport BS on both ends at $600, or a high speed rail that took a couple few hours more, with better, more comfortable, seats (you can fit more bodies on a train just by adding cars due to more efficient engines) fewer luggage restrictions (trains don't care about weight or cube as much) and Wi-Fi for half that price I can see a lot of travelers choosing that option.
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anygunanywhere
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« Reply #59 on: October 29, 2008, 10:49:21 AM »

If a true high speed rail system were ever built then TSA would be all over it to keep you safe thus turning the train stations into another example of government gone wrong.

Anygunanywhere
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Manedwolf
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« Reply #60 on: October 29, 2008, 10:58:54 AM »

With flight being so expensive and time consuming now, I think a high-speed rail network, if it terminated near, say, airports, to take advantage of existing rental car infrastructure would work.

I'm wondering if the old "rail won't pay for itself" numbers might have changed in the past year or so with gas getting more expensive.

If I have a 3 hour flight with an hour of airport BS on both ends at $600, or a high speed rail that took a couple few hours more, with better, more comfortable, seats (you can fit more bodies on a train just by adding cars due to more efficient engines) fewer luggage restrictions (trains don't care about weight or cube as much) and Wi-Fi for half that price I can see a lot of travelers choosing that option.

If that were the case, Acela would be profitable.

It isn't.
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grampster
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« Reply #61 on: October 29, 2008, 12:17:33 PM »

Think about it for a moment.  Have a little vision.  Look at a map.  Visualize elevated, high speed, passenger and freight trains powered by nuclear power plant created electricity criss crossing the country using the Interstate Highway system's r.o.w.'s.  There is an interstate fairly close to just about everybody.  Park and go. Trains are elevated, so no problem with collisions or impact with ground transportation or animals.  System is one way like the interstates, so no traffic problems except in the timing of one way trains.

48 nuke plants would probably have all sorts of excess electricity to sell off. Freight would be able to be transported faster and cheaper.  Trucking would not be impacted as faster freight delivered to short haul truckers would keep them busy and home more often.  Rental car business would bloom if more people decided to move around cheaply and easily and comfortably.

The jobs created in the construction/maintenance/operation of a rail system like that boggle the mind.  Rather than flying at a high cost, I suspect Americans could travel all around the country fairly reasonably (seasonal rail passes), fairly quickly and tourism might increase.

Funding for construction could be through the sale of stock or bonds that pay a reasonable return.  The construction part would provide a unifying project for the citizenry.  If done right, I'll be willing to bet that it would be more than self sustaining.  Your ticket gets you a seat or a sleeper.  You pay for food and drinks as you would in a restaurant.  Done right, one might be able to cross the country in a day or day and half or however long you might want to spend doing it.

We need some vision in America, something to excite us as a country.  There are so many nay sayers, gloom and doomers, nabobs of negativity inter alia.  I think it's time for some excitement.
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Manedwolf
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« Reply #62 on: October 29, 2008, 12:32:28 PM »

Think about it for a moment.  Have a little vision.  Look at a map.  Visualize elevated, high speed, passenger and freight trains powered by nuclear power plant created electricity criss crossing the country using the Interstate Highway system's r.o.w.'s.  There is an interstate fairly close to just about everybody.  Park and go. Trains are elevated, so no problem with collisions or impact with ground transportation or animals.  System is one way like the interstates, so no traffic problems except in the timing of one way trains.

Visualize a train with lots of useless bureaucrats in offices running it badly, a train that doesn't go anywhere near where I live or where I want to go, a train I never use...but have to pay HIGHER TAXES for anyway.

Did you know that Disney's elevated monorail, even, is 1 million dollars per mile of track?

Did you know that for any new elevated track to be built, it HAS to have drip pans and a handicap accessible walkway along its ENTIRE LENGTH? Did you know that? Who is going to pay for that? Who would want something that ugly going near their home, ruining their property value with the ugliness and the clattering noise of a train above the greenbelts and noise abatement hills?

Quote
We need some vision in America, something to excite us as a country.  There are so many nay sayers, gloom and doomers, nabobs of negativity inter alia.  I think it's time for some excitement.

I think you need to stop wanting to spend MY money for useless World's Fair dream projects that are a waste of money and would become money-sucking eyesores that would fail within a couple of years. I get plenty excited when someone CUTS MY DAMNED TAXES INSTEAD OF RAISING THEM TO PAY FOR ASININE PROJECTS LIKE THIS.

France, 1959.

The promised dream:



The reality less than a decade later.



Quit trying to waste my money. Live in the real world, please. Trains are good for freight when handled by private companies like CSX. THAT'S ALL. 

If this was a good idea, private industry would already have done it!
« Last Edit: October 29, 2008, 12:38:28 PM by Manedwolf » Report to moderator   Logged
ilbob
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« Reply #63 on: October 29, 2008, 03:13:43 PM »

There is not a single government run passenger train system or mass traisnt system anywhere in the world that is not heavily subsidized. Government is incapable of doing anything efifciently.

There is talk of using some existing tracks to extend rail service near where I live. They say it will only costs something like $200 million to improve the existing rail lines so they can be used for passenger service and buy the engines and cars. I think it is 30 miles of track we are talking about.

I was thinking about this the other day. $200 million in government bonds at 4% over say ten years is almost $21 million a year. This is for a 30 mile run that they estimate 500 people a day would use. Each passengers share would be over $100 per ride!
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Manedwolf
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« Reply #64 on: October 29, 2008, 06:14:16 PM »

There is not a single government run passenger train system or mass traisnt system anywhere in the world that is not heavily subsidized. Government is incapable of doing anything efifciently.

There is talk of using some existing tracks to extend rail service near where I live. They say it will only costs something like $200 million to improve the existing rail lines so they can be used for passenger service and buy the engines and cars. I think it is 30 miles of track we are talking about.

I was thinking about this the other day. $200 million in government bonds at 4% over say ten years is almost $21 million a year. This is for a 30 mile run that they estimate 500 people a day would use. Each passengers share would be over $100 per ride!

Yeah, they were babbling about doing that here, too. Extending rail service from MA up to Manchester with a stop in Bedford.

Because, you know, people who live in an area with a median income of $80K want to ride a train. And have a train bringing up car thieves from Lawrence MA. Plus the track goes past some housing developments, who didn't mind it so much at present, as it's only used for a once-a-day slow gravel train now that hardly makes any sound. This would change that to a noisy passenger train with horns. All at taxpayer expense. And since when do trains go through nice areas? What do the areas that trains go through look like?

They already spent $50,000 on a study. I publically asked (and it was published) how they could spend $50,000 on a useless rail study when the street in front of the Verizon arena in Manchester was in such awful shape that it's like driving on the moon.
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longeyes
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« Reply #65 on: October 29, 2008, 08:39:42 PM »

By the time this high-speed rail network is completed America's business class will be convening by holographic video.  The rail system will be to transport the forthcoming waves of cheap labor from the less developed world that will have free entree to what was once the American nation.
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roo_ster
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« Reply #66 on: October 30, 2008, 06:55:26 AM »

By the time this high-speed rail network is completed America's business class will be convening by holographic video.  The rail system will be to transport the forthcoming waves of cheap labor from the less developed world that will have free entree to what was once the American nation.

Saw one of those demoed a few years back, actually.  It was a tech startup that had some seed money and was looking for some more to further develop the product.

Pretty impressive, BTW.  Pretty impressive throughput and QOS requirements, too.
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roo_ster

ôFallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.ö
----G.K. Chesterton
Manedwolf
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« Reply #67 on: October 30, 2008, 06:56:49 AM »

Saw one of those demoed a few years back, actually.  It was a tech startup that had some seed money and was looking for some more to further develop the product.

Pretty impressive, BTW.  Pretty impressive throughput and QOS requirements, too.

Huh? We use that all the time. We have a big screen at the end of the conference table. The European office has the same. We sit down, wave at each other, hold up stuff, and have meetings.
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