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Author Topic: Calif. gov.: 'We will maybe undo' Prop 8  (Read 104488 times)
freakazoid
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« Reply #75 on: November 11, 2008, 11:35:30 AM »

Quote
Fatherless children are at a dramatically...

While I am not going to take the effort to go sifting through stormfront to show "proof" that blacks are criminals. I can show "proof" that guns are bad. http://www.bradycampaign.org/issues/gvstats/firearmoverview/

Although apparently blacks have it even worse, http://www.bradycampaign.org/issues/gvstats/africanamerican/ I guess that "proves" that blacks are inferior to whites.

I can do the same thing to "prove" that "violent" video games makes people violent.

The only problem with these and your statistics are that they don't actually look at the bigger picture.
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"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

"I see a rager at least once a week." - brimic
Desertdog
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« Reply #76 on: November 11, 2008, 12:01:49 PM »

Quote
I can show "proof" that guns are bad.
Guns are not bad.  A gun does not and never will fire itself at anyone.

The firearm is a tool.  As any tool it will rest peacefully where ever it is until somebody decides to use it.

 It really does not matter to a hammer if you are driving a nail in, knocking 2 boards apart or hitting somebody in the head. 

The firearm does not care if you are shooting a target, a deer or another person.  When someone puts the firearm away after using it, just like the hammer, it will just lie there until somebody picks it up again.

The firearm is not bad.  It is just that bad people use them for bad purposes.
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roo_ster
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Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats


« Reply #77 on: November 11, 2008, 02:09:10 PM »

Ahh-nold is a pinhead.  Pretty obvious all the 'roids have taken their toll on his cognitive abilities.

Yes, the usual leftist scum will crawl out of the gutter and leave a slime trail leading to the courts to do their best to impose the Vision of the Anointed* on the rest of us.

Given the reactions of the pervs (including the event described below), I think I am now officially against not only the sick joke that is "gay" marriage, but I will do my best to also oppose any and all "civil union" measures. 

Let them go to a lawyer and get powers of attorney, wills, etc. and spend taxpayer dollars on something more useful.





* Anointed with what, I am not willing to broach in mixed company.





Michigan liberals attack Lansing congregation in the middle of Sunday worship

By Nick, Section News
Posted on Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 01:33:05 PM EST
This is what we're up against.

On Sunday morning, amidst worshiping congregants and following unifying prayers that our President-elect be granted wisdom as he prepares to lead our nation through difficult global, social and economic challenges, the Michigan left declared open war on peaceful church goers.

They did it with banners, chants, blasphemy, by storming the pulpit, by vandalizing the church facility, by potentially defiling the building with lewd, public, sex acts and by intentionally forcing physical confrontations with worshipers.

This didn't take place in some dystopian, post modern work of fiction and it didn't take place in San Francisco or Berkley.  This was the scene at a Bible believing church in Lansing, Michigan. 

Read on...

I returned home myself yesterday, from church and an afternoon watching football with the family, to find an email in my inbox from a friend in the Capitol City.  Isn't surprising to see her name in the inbox as she and I often compare notes on our Sunday services. 

Truth be told, I've done my best over the last year to start a friendly little rivalry with her.  My church is better than hers, I insist, and I have been known to tell her why. Hers is superior to mine, she reminds me, and lists the reasons.  (I admit I'm maybe a tad hyper-competitive, but my church really is the best in the world.)  Yesterday's email began with an understated proclamation; "So church today was exciting..."

On  Sunday, November 9, 2008 Michigan liberals sat peacefully through announcements, worship and prayer for the sick, our nation and our President-elect before staging a coordinated, disgusting and repulsive attack on worshipers and the broader concept of the church itself at Lansing's Mount Hope Church.

The lefties were a part of a liberal organization known as Bash Back Lansing and their collection of radical blogs, including one of the state's most widely read "mainstream" progressive blogs (and none which will receive a link on this website) called on "queers and trannies" from across the state and the region to converge on Lansing for what they refer to as an "action."  While many of the members claim to be anarchists (they drove on roads, ate non-garden grown foods, printed materials on products created by government protected free markets, wore clothing, talk incessantly about "organization," etc etc etc) their broader goal is stated plainly on one of their lefty blogs.

"I can tell you that we are targeting a well-known anti-queer, anti-choice radical right wing establishment."

Mount Hope, for the record, is an evangelical, bible believing church whose members provide free 24 hour counseling, prayer lines, catastrophic care for families dealing with medical emergencies, support groups for men, women and children dealing with a wide variety of life's troubles, crisis intervention, marriage ministries, regular, organized volunteer work in and around the city, missions in dozens of countries across the globe, a construction ministry that has built over 100 churches, schools, orphanages and other projects all over the world and an in-depth prison ministry that reaches out, touches and helps the men and women the rest of society fears the most.  They also teach respect for all human life and the Biblical sanctity of marriage as an institution between one man and one woman.

This is what Michigan liberals label a "radical right wing establishment," and over 30 of them showed up in force yesterday.  Wearing secret-service style ear pieces and microphones they received the "go" from their ringleader and off they went. 

Prayer had just finished when men and women stood up in pockets across the congregation, on the main floor and in the balcony.  "Jesus was gay," they shouted among other profanities and blasphemies as they rushed the stage.  Some forced their way through rows of women and kids to try to hang a profane banner from the balcony while others began tossing fliers into the air.  Two women made their way to the pulpit and began to kiss.

Their other props?  I'll let them tell you in their own words... from another of their liberal blogs:

"(A) video camera, a megaphone, noise makers, condoms, glitter by the bucket load, confetti, pink fabric...yeh."

The video camera they put to good use as they attempted to provoke a violent reaction.  The image of the pink-clad folks above is one of theirs, stating in a picture worth more than a thousand words the goals of the Michigan left. 

The "open minded" and "tolerant" liberals ran down the aisles and across the pews, hoping against hope to catch a "right winger" on tape daring to push back (none did).  And just in case their camera missed the target, they had a reporter in tow.  According to a source inside the church yesterday there was a "journalist" from the Lansing City Pulse along for the ride, tipped off about the action and more interested in getting a story than in preventing the vandalism, the violence and anti-Christian hatred being spewed by the lefties.  We'll see what he files and what his editors see fit to print.

Props were readily on display too, though some of the condoms may have been put to even more nefarious use.

An hour after police and security had collected and removed who they thought were the last of the liberals, a volunteer security person discovered two more, hiding, together, in a public restroom. While their compatriots engaged in openly violent protest in front of everyone these two snuck away to potentially stage their own protest of sorts, and only by the grace of God did one of the hundreds of kids at the church not happen upon that particular restroom in those moments. Precisely how long they'd been there and precisely what they'd been up to we don't know.

The church's response?  After things settled down, the blasphemy ended, the lewd props removed and the families safe from fear of additional men and women running into and past them the pastor took the stage and led the congregation in one more prayer... not for retribution, or divine justice or a celestial comeuppance (that's what I'd have prayed for) but instead that the troubled individuals who'd just defiled the Lord's house, so full of anger and hate, would know Jesus' love in their lives and God's peace that exceeds human understanding.

Yesterday morning defined the difference between a church of believers and Michigan liberals.  It also illustrated in shocking, painful detail precisely what we're up against.
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Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton
MicroBalrog
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« Reply #78 on: November 11, 2008, 02:13:40 PM »

So it's okay when people do this (or similar) outside abortion clinics, but not outside churches? Why should people not protest (peacefully) the activities of churches?
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Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner
Marnoot
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« Reply #79 on: November 11, 2008, 02:17:45 PM »

So it's okay when people do this (or similar) outside abortion clinics, but not outside churches? Why should people not protest (peacefully) the activities of churches?

Read the article, it was not outside of the church, and it was not peaceful.
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Manedwolf
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« Reply #80 on: November 11, 2008, 02:24:26 PM »

So it's okay when people do this (or similar) outside abortion clinics, but not outside churches? Why should people not protest (peacefully) the activities of churches?

Did you even read the article?
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roo_ster
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« Reply #81 on: November 11, 2008, 02:30:47 PM »

Did you even read the article?

I would vote, "No" on that proposition.
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roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton
cassandra and sara's daddy
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« Reply #82 on: November 11, 2008, 02:34:15 PM »

reading it would be a  buzzkill  all those peaky facts
on the flip side these kinda actions push lots of fence sitters one way
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I
MicroBalrog
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« Reply #83 on: November 11, 2008, 02:41:07 PM »

Did you even read the article?

I read the article. The article claims that the protesters were planning to provoke the church-goers into violence, and that they planned to vandalize the church, and that they brought 'condoms and confetti' to do it.

Normally, you don't vandalize stuff with confetti. You vandalize stuff with rocks and paint.

It also claims that two people were found in the restroom, implying that they were having sex there, but admitting honestly that the writer doesn't know either way.
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Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner
cassandra and sara's daddy
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« Reply #84 on: November 11, 2008, 02:46:50 PM »

so i guess then your "thinking" is that what they did is acceptable?  you will fit in fine with the free staters   won't even need a wookie suit
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Manedwolf
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« Reply #85 on: November 11, 2008, 02:50:49 PM »

I read the article. The article claims that the protesters were planning to provoke the church-goers into violence, and that they planned to vandalize the church, and that they brought 'condoms and confetti' to do it.

Normally, you don't vandalize stuff with confetti. You vandalize stuff with rocks and paint.

It also claims that two people were found in the restroom, implying that they were having sex there, but admitting honestly that the writer doesn't know either way.

You honestly have NO problem with these people breaking up the services, defiling the church on purpose in their displays, and violating the rights of all the people worshiping there?

Is that what you're saying?
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cassandra and sara's daddy
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« Reply #86 on: November 11, 2008, 02:54:23 PM »

shhh give the boy time hes busy trying trying to figure how to defend the gay marriage in the sweden thread, or maybe the bestiality
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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MicroBalrog
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« Reply #87 on: November 11, 2008, 03:04:04 PM »

shhh give the boy time hes busy trying trying to figure how to defend the gay marriage in the sweden thread, or maybe the bestiality

Is that the news article where they are forcing pastors to marry gay people?

Obviously I oppose that. Unlike in the dream world of some people, I can support the right of people to live together and have families without supporting forcing priests to hold ceremonies for them.

It is bizarre to me that a person would want to be married by a man whose faith they don't share, anyway.
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Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner
roo_ster
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Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats


« Reply #88 on: November 11, 2008, 03:27:40 PM »

You honestly have NO problem with these people breaking up the services, defiling the church on purpose in their displays, and violating the rights of all the people worshiping there?

Is that what you're saying?



According to this article:
http://www.lansingcitypulse.com/lansing/article-2302-gay-anarchist-action-hits-church.html
by the journalist they brought with them, they also pulled fire alarms.


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Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton
MicroBalrog
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« Reply #89 on: November 11, 2008, 03:30:20 PM »



According to this article:
http://www.lansingcitypulse.com/lansing/article-2302-gay-anarchist-action-hits-church.html
by the journalist they brought with them, they also pulled fire alarms.




Oh. Leftie anarchist 'revolutionaries'.

Why do they HAVE to mess up EVERYTHING they stand up for?
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Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner
cassandra and sara's daddy
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« Reply #90 on: November 11, 2008, 03:56:02 PM »

because they really don't stand for anything?  cause generally they are parasitic?
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I
MicroBalrog
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« Reply #91 on: November 11, 2008, 03:57:50 PM »

because they really don't stand for anything?  cause generally they are parasitic?

I was going for "because they don't respect private property and use violence to achieve their goals".
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Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner
seeker_two
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« Reply #92 on: November 11, 2008, 03:59:51 PM »

If that's the way the liberals want to "protest", then we as good conservatives with opposing views should "protest" right back....
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Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.
cassandra and sara's daddy
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« Reply #93 on: November 11, 2008, 04:00:49 PM »

they have goals? is sucking off the tit of the society they disdain a goal?
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I
zahc
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« Reply #94 on: November 11, 2008, 04:10:51 PM »

Quote
The "open minded" and "tolerant" liberals ran down the aisles and across the pews, hoping against hope to catch a "right winger" on tape daring to push back (none did).

I'm glad they didn't pull this at my church.
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Maybe a rare occurence, but then you only have to get murdered once to ruin your whole day.
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cassandra and sara's daddy
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« Reply #95 on: November 11, 2008, 04:13:42 PM »

any church in this part of the state there would be "film at 11"
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I
Kwelz
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« Reply #96 on: November 11, 2008, 04:20:13 PM »

I find myself at a loss in this situation.  The people have spoken.  And even though the way they voted was Ethically and morally wrong the government doesn't have the authority to just change the constitution anytime it wants. 

And was that an actual journalist who wrote that article?  If so he really needs to go back to journalism 101. 

It seems that most arguments against Gay Marriage come from a Religious reasoning.  And some people just don't get that a religious argument holds no weight in a court of law nor in the making of laws.  In fact to many people like me any religious argument has no standing in civilized society.  I want facts and proof not mysticism and an old book. 
« Last Edit: November 11, 2008, 04:35:40 PM by Kwelz » Report to moderator   Logged
makattak
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« Reply #97 on: November 11, 2008, 05:02:18 PM »

I find myself at a loss in this situation.  The people have spoken.  And even though the way they voted was Ethically and morally wrong the government doesn't have the authority to just change the constitution anytime it wants. 

And was that an actual journalist who wrote that article?  If so he really needs to go back to journalism 101. 

It seems that most arguments against Gay Marriage come from a Religious reasoning.  And some people just don't get that a religious argument holds no weight in a court of law nor in the making of laws.  In fact to many people like me any religious argument has no standing in civilized society.  I want facts and proof not mysticism and an old book. 

Perhaps you should go back and read my post, number 57.

Also, Freakazoid, if you don't want to take a study from the Department of Health and Human Services during CLINTON'S presidency, you are willfully blind.
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“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom.”
Kwelz
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« Reply #98 on: November 11, 2008, 05:12:30 PM »

I read your post and found it flawed.  Some traditions have a reason, others are just a tradition because they are.  If we followed tradition at all times we would never advance, never change.  We would become stagnant and fall in on ourselves as a society. 

And I hate to break it to you, Tradition is not a good enough reason to deny a person or entire class of person the same rights and freedoms we give to others.  People had that mindset with woman's rights, and civil rights for blacks.   Of course I am sure there are a number of people who feel that both woman's suffrage and civil rights are a bad thing.  They are also reviled and ridiculed by most of the population.

I have yet to see a single person give a response to how they see if would be different if a Constitutional amendment was passed that forbid mixed race couples again or perhaps stated that a couple had to produce children.  Even if something like this somehow passed it would not be right.  So what is the difference here?
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Ron
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« Reply #99 on: November 11, 2008, 05:14:27 PM »

Quote
It seems that most arguments against Gay Marriage come from a Religious reasoning.

That is only due to the perversion of marriage by the state that has turned it into a legal contract that they have control over.

Marriage is a religious institution co-opted by the state and due to the legal incorporation of churches it (government forcing the people to accept gay marriage) has huge consequences where it concerns DOCTRINE and DOGMA.

Do you want the state dictating DOCTRINE and DOGMA?

So much for religious freedom, stick it down the same memory hole with the rest of your first, second et al protected rights.

I hate to break it to you but you don't know what you are talking about.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2008, 05:18:33 PM by Ron » Report to moderator   Logged

The wish not to believe can influence as strongly as the wish to believe.

Who can escape their own cognitive biases?
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