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Author Topic: Calif. gov.: 'We will maybe undo' Prop 8  (Read 103150 times)
Manedwolf
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« Reply #200 on: November 14, 2008, 07:58:50 AM »

Cowards have a way of picking targets that they think won't fight back.  Sometimes they are wrong though.

The perfect way to stop a lot of these demonstrations is for the news services to give them just a mention in the news, not a big news splash.

Everyone that went into that church should have been charged with something.

Like I said. Attacking white Christians is not a hate crime.
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cassandra and sara's daddy
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« Reply #201 on: November 14, 2008, 08:57:28 AM »

seems like the older queen needs an assault charge at least.  great way to make society see how you should be embraced by the mainstream.
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I
freakazoid
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« Reply #202 on: November 14, 2008, 09:23:37 AM »

Quote
Oh, yeah, here's a good way to make friends & influence people.  First, deliberately desecrate the religious symbol of a peaceful protester, then howl like queer wolves around the old lady, knocking her about with your campaign signs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDHL9NZ1lQQ&eurl=http://thegroundgameblog.blogspot.com/2008/11/california-cross-stomping.html

Funny, I didn't see any of the things you mentioned. I heard a bunch of slogan chanting and saw that one guy yelling at the lady. "howling like queer wolves", give me a freaking break  rolleyes And where where they knocking her about with their campaign signs, or desecrating religious symbols? Also hate speech is not peacefully protesting.
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"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

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makattak
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« Reply #203 on: November 14, 2008, 09:35:31 AM »

Funny, I didn't see any of the things you mentioned. I heard a bunch of slogan chanting and saw that one guy yelling at the lady. "howling like queer wolves", give me a freaking break  rolleyes And where where they knocking her about with their campaign signs, or desecrating religious symbols? Also hate speech is not peacefully protesting.

AWESOME! All we have to do is get the views of everyone who disagrees with us classified as "hate speech."

Freakazoid, you're a GENIUS! That's the perfect way to shut up those poor souls still in need of enlightenment!

We can shut their views out of the schools too! It's a PERFECT PLAN.



















Or, perhaps, even if you don't like what people are saying, they are still peaceful protestors until they, you know, ACT OUT VIOLENTLY?
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“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom.”
cassandra and sara's daddy
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« Reply #204 on: November 14, 2008, 09:36:01 AM »

funny  i'm 1/2 blind and saw em knock the cross outa her hands and stomp it. same loudmouthed queen
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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freakazoid
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« Reply #205 on: November 14, 2008, 10:06:36 AM »

Quote
AWESOME! All we have to do is get the views of everyone who disagrees with us classified as "hate speech."

Freakazoid, you're a GENIUS! That's the perfect way to shut up those poor souls still in need of enlightenment!

We can shut their views out of the schools too! It's a PERFECT PLAN.

Or, perhaps, even if you don't like what people are saying, they are still peaceful protestors until they, you know, ACT OUT VIOLENTLY?

So if this was a neo-nazi event would you be saying the same thing to people protesting the neo-nazis in the same manner, yelling at them and stuff like we saw that one guy doing? Or do the neo-nazis have to be violent first? I say no, because it is hate speech, doesn't matter if they are being "peaceful" because hate speech is violence. People who would have there rights taken away because of how they are born have a right to react violently.

Quote
funny  i'm 1/2 blind and saw em knock the cross outa her hands and stomp it. same loudmouthed queen

Just re-watched it. Didn't catch that that was even her, probably because of the not so great quality and that someone was holding a sign in front of it. It looks to me like someone came running up and tried to tear the sign out of the guys hand who was holding it in front of the cross. It looks to me like right after the guy tries to pull down the protesters sign that someone pushes on the cross from behind, and it wasn't the "queen" who was yelling earlier, although he did take that as an opportunity to stomp on it. It is right at 2:34 that the guy comes up and tries to pull the sign out of his hand and right then someone else from behind pushes on the cross. Also, yeah you never see this sort of behavior in anyone but those evil gays,  rolleyes

To quote one of the  comment on the youtube vid, "Walk into a crowd that you strongly oppose. Hold up a symbol to insight hate and you're surprised that this symbol is snatched out of your hand and trampled on..." And "
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"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

"I see a rager at least once a week." - brimic
MicroBalrog
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« Reply #206 on: November 14, 2008, 10:10:23 AM »

Quote
Oh, yeah, here's a good way to make friends & influence people.  First, deliberately desecrate the religious symbol of a peaceful protester, then howl like queer wolves around the old lady, knocking her about with your campaign signs.

Well-poisoning.

That some gays behaved violently towards some Christian protesters somewhere is no more a valid argument against gay marriage than the the activities of Fred Phelps - a valid argument of Christianity.

Quote
We can shut their views out of the schools too! It's a PERFECT PLAN.

Here's a hint, Makattak. I think certain views should not be respected in decent society. Racism. Communism. Fascism. And yes, gay-hating.
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Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner
freakazoid
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« Reply #207 on: November 14, 2008, 10:16:41 AM »

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Here's a hint, Makattak. I think certain views should not be respected in decent society... Communism

:*(
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"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

"I see a rager at least once a week." - brimic
cassandra and sara's daddy
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« Reply #208 on: November 14, 2008, 10:17:51 AM »

 the folks in that crowd do their "cause" no good.  if you wanted poster children for what folks dislike about the gblt crowd those folks will do
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I
MicroBalrog
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« Reply #209 on: November 14, 2008, 10:19:15 AM »

:*(

Think of statist communism, here.

We just had a fellow where I live run for a mayor of a city on a platform of *banning the construction of high-rise buildings* to *cut appartment costs*. CPI member.

The world would be a a better place if people like that were laughed at.
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Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner
makattak
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« Reply #210 on: November 14, 2008, 10:48:49 AM »

Here's a hint, Makattak. I think certain views should not be respected in decent society. Racism. Communism. Fascism. And yes, gay-hating.

You're right. Let's hunt down these people, drag them out and stone them!

Freaking haters, I wish they were all dead.
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“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom.”
MicroBalrog
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« Reply #211 on: November 14, 2008, 10:52:08 AM »

You're right. Let's hunt down these people, drag them out and stone them!

Freaking haters, I wish they were all dead.

Hunt down? What?

Here:

I do not respect Klansmen. I will not teach my child, if I ever have one, that racial hatred is a good idea. This does not mean, no matter how hard you try to spin it, that I support imprisoning these people for their views.

I have the right to choose the books I read, to determine the content of my children's education, and to respect (or not) whom I choose.

People have the right to express their views. I however have the right to approve, or disapprove, of their views. They do not have a right to my respect merely by the virtue of having an opinion.
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Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner
Ron
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« Reply #212 on: November 14, 2008, 10:52:38 AM »

I didn't see any "gay hating" going on.

Quote
I think certain views should not be respected in decent society
That is fine when your guys are in power, what happens when folks who think religion is dangerous, think that homeschooling subverts the society and that gun ownership advocates are dangerous get in power.

Free speech has two components, speech and FREE.

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The wish not to believe can influence as strongly as the wish to believe.

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Manedwolf
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« Reply #213 on: November 14, 2008, 10:54:25 AM »

Well-poisoning.

That some gays behaved violently towards some Christian protesters somewhere is no more a valid argument against gay marriage than the the activities of Fred Phelps - a valid argument of Christianity.

Here's a hint, Makattak. I think certain views should not be respected in decent society. Racism. Communism. Fascism. And yes, gay-hating.

The problem is that to this sort, you're not even allowed to say that you do not approve of homosexuals or their lifestyle. No, you must ENDORSE and EMBRACE their lifestyle, or you're a "hater".

So be it.
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MicroBalrog
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« Reply #214 on: November 14, 2008, 10:54:33 AM »

I didn't see any "gay hating" going on.



I did not say any was going on in this thread. But I do say that there are entities who engage in such hating and that such entities are not worthy of respect.
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Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner
Ron
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« Reply #215 on: November 14, 2008, 10:55:49 AM »

I did not say any was going on in this thread. But I do say that there are entities who engage in such hating and that such entities are not worthy of respect.

I agree about not respecting them.

I was editing while you posted
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The wish not to believe can influence as strongly as the wish to believe.

Who can escape their own cognitive biases?
makattak
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« Reply #216 on: November 14, 2008, 11:05:24 AM »

Hunt down? What?

Here:

I do not respect Klansmen. I will not teach my child, if I ever have one, that racial hatred is a good idea. This does not mean, no matter how hard you try to spin it, that I support imprisoning these people for their views.

I have the right to choose the books I read, to determine the content of my children's education, and to respect (or not) whom I choose.

People have the right to express their views. I however have the right to approve, or disapprove, of their views. They do not have a right to my respect merely by the virtue of having an opinion.

Perhaps you will note that in my orignal piece of sarcasm, I included a serious statement about how disingenious it is to claim someone is not a peaceful protester because you disagree with their position, calling it "hate".

I very much agree people have the right to their own views. I don't think I get to shut them down simply because I dislike them.

Freakazoid suggested that by claiming anyone who is protesting in "hate" is not a peaceful protestor and deserves to be assaulted.

Your post then came to his defense; I, therefore, assumed you agreed with this position.

I completely agree people have the right to determine what their children are taught and what they themselves believe. This is the entire arguement we are having. Just as gun owners are aware that gun registration is not the final goal of their opponents, those who oppose "gay rights" realize it's not about being allowed to do as they wish. It's about forcing everyone to accept and approve of what they do.
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“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom.”
cassandra and sara's daddy
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« Reply #217 on: November 14, 2008, 11:11:30 AM »

That some gays behaved violently towards some Christian protesters somewhere is no more a valid argument against gay marriage than the the activities of Fred Phelps - a valid argument of Christianity.


that might be true if the gay community rejected those who act poorly, like most christians reject phelps. they don't
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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MicroBalrog
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« Reply #218 on: November 14, 2008, 11:15:32 AM »

Let me say here, for disclosure sake, that I am bisexual – in the clinical sense of being sexually attracted to both males and females. I do not, unfortunately, enjoy hanging out with other 'LGBT' people because I find their personal habits and fashion personally disturbing.

That said, I believe there are two lines of attack to protecting people's  right to a given behavior – on one hand, you must make it legal, and on the other, you must use the power of persuasion to make it socially acceptable at least to some extent, or your legality will be an empty shell.

The problem with these people is not that they are gay, as many people seemed to suggest in this thread, but that they are leftists.

Leftists, I remind you, believe that freedom isn't just about 'negative rights' (being protected from government action), but about the government coming in and assuring your 'positive rights' (assuring you receive the same social position as people who do not share your gayness or whatever).

It is part of legitimate activism to protest anti-gay restaurants or churches. However, once you start asking the government to destroy these people, or using violence to assure 'positive rights', then you are actually acting AGAINST freedom.

However, where I disagree with you is in your judgment that this immoral behavior is a function of their homosexuality).

I believe firmly that the number one corrupting and immoral factor in Western civilization is not sex of any kind, but rather statism.

It has corrupted to the point of being insalvageable multiple independence and liberation movements throughout the globe. The LGBT rights movement, feminism, anti-racist and national liberation movements, all have been affected by the cancer of the State.

The fact that a lot of LGBT people cling to the State as their protector from intolerance, however, should not serve as an argument against my prime suggestion:

Namely, that government should recognize the union contracts between gays.
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Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner
Ron
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« Reply #219 on: November 14, 2008, 11:35:11 AM »

By normalizing gay unions under the same set of jurisprudence that has been constructed for traditional marriage you open up a can of worms.

First off, Churches most likely will be forced to recognized and possibly perform gay marriage.

Churches are corporations and subject to all the rules government imposes on us, whether it goes against their beliefs or not.
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Desertdog
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« Reply #220 on: November 14, 2008, 11:36:48 AM »

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Namely, that government should recognize the union contracts between gays.
In CA that is called civil unions, which give all the rights of marriage, but for some reason the leftist in the gay community just are not going to accept.
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freakazoid
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« Reply #221 on: November 14, 2008, 12:12:29 PM »

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  Just as gun owners are aware that gun registration is not the final goal of their opponents, those who oppose "gay rights" realize it's not about being allowed to do as they wish. It's about forcing everyone to accept and approve of what they do.

  Just as gun owners are aware that gun registration is not the final goal of their opponents, those who oppose "interracial marriage rights" realize it's not about being allowed to do as they wish. It's about forcing everyone to accept and approve of what they do.

Quote
First off, Churches most likely will be forced to recognized and possibly perform gay marriage.

Well if we would get the government out of the marriage business then it wouldn't be a problem. I think that that is what people of the GLBT group need to focus on.

Quote
In CA that is called civil unions, which give all the rights of marriage, but for some reason the leftist in the gay community just are not going to accept.

So did Prop 8 then make it illegal for churches to marry homosexuals?
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"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

"I see a rager at least once a week." - brimic
Strings
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« Reply #222 on: November 14, 2008, 12:21:36 PM »

>All that being said, other than employee benefit issues, what measurable, tangible benefit do SSC's receive from calling their relationship a "marriage"? <

Little thing, like being able to visit your spouse in the hospital (or, I suppose, prison), inheritance, power of attorney. All those things that automatically happen when straights marry, but require major work with an attorney for a gay couple.

 I think that's a large part of why I favor some sort of civil union procedure, used to join together any group of two or more consenting adults. If you wish to get "married" in a church, you need to follow that church's rules on being married. The way things stand now in most of the US, gay couples have to jump through extra hoops to get the same protections: this is in no way "equal"...
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No Child Should Live In Fear

What was that about a pearl handled revolver and someone from New Orleans again?

Screw it: just autoclave the planet (thanks Birdman)
makattak
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« Reply #223 on: November 14, 2008, 12:25:59 PM »

Quote
Just as gun owners are aware that gun registration is not the final goal of their opponents, those who oppose "interracial marriage rights" realize it's not about being allowed to do as they wish. It's about forcing everyone to accept and approve of what they do.

Around and around she goes, where it stops, nobody knows!

Hasn't the whole "Gays are just like blacks!" been argued in this thread already?
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“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom.”
Manedwolf
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« Reply #224 on: November 14, 2008, 12:38:14 PM »

Hasn't the whole "Gays are just like blacks!" been argued in this thread already?

That is an absolute BS argument. It seriously annoys blacks, too.

Gays have never been slaves unless they asked for it on Craigslist.
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