Shoulder Holsters

[roo_ster]

Howdy:

I am looking to purchase a couple of shoulder holsters.  One, a leather traditional CCW SH and the other a synthetic SH to wear when performing physical activity. 

I am a fairly big guy with a 52" chest.

I would prefer tie-downs on both sides and an ammo carrier on the off side.

I have read this fellow's reviews:
http://www.parkcitiestactical.com/shr.htm

Any experience you can share would be appreciated.


Leather SH
My three main options I have considered are Galco, El Paso Saddlery, & Aker.  Alessi* & Del Fatti are out of the competition.  Just too much money and too long a wait.  I am open to other options.

Possible weapons to pack in leather SH, in order of preference:
1911 full size / GM
1911 OACP / 3.5" bbl
SW M19 2.5" bbl snubby
SW M629 4" bbl

Galco (http://www.usgalco.com)
Galco has the Jackass, Miami Classic, Miami Classic II, and VHS.

MC & MC II hold the weapon horizontally, the Jackass at about a 45deg muzzle-up tilt, and the VHS is vertical.

Galco has a nice option to order a large version of the MC/MCII/VHS harness that will accommodate up to a 64" chest, whereas their standard harness is good to 52" chests.  (The 52" limit seems to cut it too close for my tastes.)

I suspect that the 1911GM and the SW629 4" would require a vertical carry or angled carry to stay concealed, but am not certain.  My worry is that the VHS is too big & bulky and the Jackass rig is kinda chintzy.

El Paso Saddlery (http://www.epsaddlery.com/)
EPS has the 200 (muzzle angled up 45deg) and the Spyder (horizontal).

My initial thought is that EPS is better quality than Galco.  OTOH, the leather harness that EPS uses looks kinda thick.

Aker (http://www.akerleather.com/)

Again, they have hoizontal (107) and muzzle-up (101) angled permutations.

Synthetic SH
I would prefer that the holster part of the SH NOT be nylon or any sort of fabric that retains moisture.  My druthers would be kydex or some such for the holster portion.

My usual first stop when considering a new holster-type is Uncle Mikes, as UM is cheap and can help determine if the particular holster type is workable or not.  But, UM SHs are all fabric.

Possible weapons to pack in synthetic SH, in order of preference:
SW M629 4" bbl
1911 full size / GM
SW M19 2 1/2" snubby
1911 OACP

Blackhawk (http://www.blackhawk.com)

Honestly, I usually avoid this purveyor of tacticool like the plague.  But, their Serpa holster can be supplemented with a shoulder harness.

Survival Sheath Systems (http://www.survivalsheath.com/)

They look better made than BH and have the advantage of not being made by BH.








* In doing research, I learned that Lou Alessi has gone to his reward.  A sad day for his family and a sad day for those who apprciate the best in gunleather.

[castle key]

Have you ever used one? I hate them. Never found one I liked.

[charby]

Have you ever used one? I hate them. Never found one I liked.

Ditto.

[SADShooter]

Caveat re: Galco. Last I checked, their thumb breaks will not accommodate C&L carry of 1911s. This was specifically called out in their FAQ. A dealbreaker for me.

As soon as I have the LW Commander I'm looking for, I'm going to order an Andrews Monarch. I like the backstrap feature in concept, and the maker and design seem well-regarded in my research. Lead time and price are problematic.

Can't help with nylon, except to suggest looking at Bianchi and DeSantis as well.

I used tie-downs on the first cheap (Uncle Mike's) horizontal rig I experimented with, and didn't care for them. Uncomfortable, and they negate one key advantage of a shoulder rig over a belt holster.

[K Frame]

Conversely, I LOVE shoulder holsters.

I find them to be, by far, the most comfortable way for me to carry a gun.

In fact, one of the shoulder holsters I regularly use is one Castle Key gave me years ago for a gun he no longer had. I've used it extensively.

[AJ Dual]

Other than the restrictions of cover garments, I'm sort of surprised they're not more popular, considering how much of modern life is spent driving cars, sitting at desks etc...

[roo_ster]

castle key:

I bought and used an old-school leather chest/tanker holster for my all-steel 1911 and found it acceptable, especially after I went after it with some silicone and neutral shoe polish to loosen it up.

But, then, I lost my sensitivity to shoulder straps & such in the service where LBE/LBV wear was the norm.

My objective for a shoulder holster is to be able to have ready access when driving/biking/etc. but also be able to have reasonable concealment when walking about without having to move my CCW when transitioning.

[El Tejon]

In LE I used both a Ted Blocker Lifeline and a KL Null City Slicker at different times.  

I like the Andrews Monarch for a 5" 1911, http://www.andrewsleather.com/.

IME.

[Werewolf]

I have the Galco VHS system for a full sized 1911. I have used it for carry occasionally when on foot and quite often when riding my motorcycle. Excellent concealment when wearing a jacket whether on foot or while riding. Accessibility while riding (you gotta stop) is a no go unless you get a left hand rig if you're right handed (kind'a hard to grab that gun with your right hand while riding). On foot or stopped on the bike, accessibility has never been a problem and a quick presentation is fairly easy with practice.

No tie downs for me - not needed in my opinion when you've got the holster balanced with two fully loaded mags on the opposite side.

Shoulder carry is not currently my 1st choice since I live in a CCW only state. If we had open carry here in OK (and we might just get it in the next year or two) it'd probably become carry method number 1 for me. Ready accessibility and comfortable as well.

[Scout26]

castle key:

I bought and used an old-school leather chest/tanker holster for my all-steel 1911 and found it acceptable, especially after I went after it with some silicone and neutral shoe polish to loosen it up.

But, then, I lost my sensitivity to shoulder straps & such in the service where LBE/LBV wear was the norm.

My objective for a shoulder holster is to be able to have ready access when driving/biking/etc. but also be able to have reasonable concealment when walking about without having to move my CCW when transitioning.

I find that interesting.  I can't currently carry in Illinois, but I too spent many years carrying a 1911 in a tanker rig.  How do you explain or deal with the black leather strap across your chest when carrying in public ??

[castle key]

I regularly use is one Castle Key gave me years ago for a gun he no longer had.

Is that for the P7?? I still have that gun..actually two of them!

[Monkeyleg]

I don't know why Galco's FAQ section says that the thumb break doesn't permit C&L carry of a 1911. My Miami Classic is about four years old, and the thumb break strap fits between the frame and the hammer with C&L carry.

[crt360]

I like the Andrews Monarch for a 5" 1911, http://www.andrewsleather.com/.

IME.

While checking those out, I just happened to look at the Carjacker Crossdraw.  Is it just me or is that second picture a little unnerving?  

[Werewolf]

While checking those out, I just happened to look at the Carjacker Crossdraw.  Is it just me or is that second picture a little unnerving?  

It's just you.

Nice holster if one does a lot of driving.

[crt360]

It's just you.

Nice holster if one does a lot of driving.

The holster looks great.  It's the finger on trigger with gun pointed at lower gut area that doesn't look quite right.  Maybe I should have said third picture.

[Chester32141]

I carry in a Bianchi X-15 and find it to be my preferred method of carry ... the gun is carried vertically w/ no thumb break required ... Bianchi's can be found for a great price if you shop carefully ... if we had open carry here in Florida it's all I would ever use.

Chester

[K Frame]

Is that for the P7?? I still have that gun..actually two of them!

Yep, that was your old P7 rig. I now use it for my P7PSP.

[K Frame]

That picture violates ALL of the tenets of safe gun handling, especially when using a non-standard (hip, muzzle down) rig.


I've had long, drawn-out arguments with people who think a shoulder rig is the worst sort of irresponsible gun carry in the world...

Arguments usually go along the lines of:

1. Your muzzle is panning people behind you! NEVER point your gun at anything you don't want to shoot! You wouldn't want to accidentally shoot a nun, would you?

Answer: Well, if I were drawing from a hip holster, my muzzle would be pointed at the ground, and I don't want to shoot he ground, do I?

2. But the people behind you!!! Your muzzle! BEHIND YOU!!! NUNS!

Answer: Are you thinking that your gun is going to suddenly start firing all by itself?

3. But the draw! Muzzle! Finger! Muzzle! Behind you! NUNS!!!!!!

Answer: If you have ANY gun handling capabilities/training at all, AT ALL, you won't have your finger anywhere near the trigger when you draw your gun, so it's not going to start going off on its own accord. You won't have your finger on the trigger until the microsecond BEFORE you trigger a shot, and by that time the muzzle of your gun will already be pointing at your target. If you DO have your finger on the trigger when you draw your gun, you're a 'tard who shouldn't be carrying a gun in the first place.

4. But, if you're carrying in a shoulder holster, someone can walk up to you, shoot out a hand and take your gun! YOU LOSE!

Answer: (two part answer)

4.1. Concealed means concealed. If you're not a 'tard, no one is going to know you have a gun.

4.2. What are you doing while this potential assailant walks up to bad breath range and just shoots out a hand and takes your gun? Are you just standing there, transfixed by his deep blue eyes or something? If someone actually manages to do that, you've completely lost control of the situation, you likely wouldn't be helped by ANY gun in ANY holster configuration, and to top it off, you're a 'tard.

Correlary question and answer (another two parter):

If someone actually does manage to figure out that you have a gun in a shoulder holster (or a hip holster, or any other kind of holster) and they want to get it, how do you think they're going to get it from you?

4.3. Walk up in front of you, in plain sight, and try to Bruce Lee quick snatch it from you? or...

4.4. Sneak up behind you and crack you across the skull with something suitably hard, like a rock or a pipe?

Criminals are generally dumb, but they're generally not complete and total 'tards. Which, by the way, you are for losing situational awareness and allowing someone to ambush you and take your gun.

5. But shoulder rigs are so much slower to draw from!

Answer: This one is actually somewhat valid. Shoulder rigs ARE somewhat slower to draw from and get onto target as compared to a hip holster. That's where practice, and above all, situational awareness comes into play.

[roo_ster]

2. But the people behind you!!! Your muzzle! BEHIND YOU!!! NUNS!

I only shoot hemophiliac nuns.

I find that interesting.  I can't currently carry in Illinois, but I too spent many years carrying a 1911 in a tanker rig.  How do you explain or deal with the black leather strap across your chest when carrying in public ??

It is not usually exposed.  I carry it under another garment, usually an oversized light button-down long sleeved cotton shirt.  Think BDU blouse-sized or a bit larger, fit-wise.  I am very prone to sunburn if I don't take it easy and take a couple weeks to get a good tan.  No time for that nowadays, so I wear hats and light colored, light weight cotton shirts when doing activities that will have me in the sun for hours.   Underneath it all I will have an undershirt.

To access the holster when my overshirt is buttoned, I grab a bunch of fabric low-down & pull up with my left hand and access the pistol with my right in an up / down / up motion to unsnap the holster / grasp the butt / draw.  I like the "chest" holster to ride lower so I can use the belt snap.

There are times when I do unbutton the overshirt, but it is large enough and has enough fabric that the chest strap is most times not exposed.  Even if it was exposed, I think it would pass a a respiration monitor:

[T.O.M.]

Galco has a nice option to order a large version of the MC/MCII/VHS harness that will accommodate up to a 64" chest, whereas their standard harness is good to 52" chests.  (The 52" limit seems to cut it too close for my tastes.)

I suspect that the 1911GM and the SW629 4" would require a vertical carry or angled carry to stay concealed, but am not certain.  My worry is that the VHS is too big & bulky and the Jackass rig is kinda chintzy.

I carried a Glock 19 in a Jackass rig for 8 years as a prosecuting attorney, wearing it under suit coats, blazers, a Columbia rain shell, and a raid jacket.  I bought it in 1999, and it is still going strong.  No breaking, tearing, or unusual wear of any kind.  I carried with two Glock 17 +2 magazines off side.  Very comfortable for me, and also very convenient, in that I could quickly grab the shoulder holster and have both gun and ammo ready to go.  I often kept the entire rig on the nightstand, before wife and kids.

I tired the tie downs and found them to be uncomfortable for me.  Restricted movement too much,

By the way, I'm 6'1", and have a 46" chest.  And I have no experience with any synthetic rigs.  Hope this helps.

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

I don't know why Galco's FAQ section says that the thumb break doesn't permit C&L carry of a 1911. My Miami Classic is about four years old, and the thumb break strap fits between the frame and the hammer with C&L carry.

Bought mine for a full-sized 1911 last month. No problems with C&L carry and concealment is pretty good. Much more comfortable than belt carry, for me, anyways.

[castle key]

One of the most important considerations, regardless of carry method, is weapon security. That is both physical and emotional.

Are you aware of where your weapon is in relation to someone who may wish to take it from you?

Are you able to secure it if someone is activly trying to remove it from your hand, holster, or any other place it is?

Can you keep an assailant from getting control of it?

These are all important factors in weapon carrying methods.

Think about them now, not during an assault.

That said, don't be complacent but don't be paranoid!!

[Jamisjockey]

I actually enjoyed a shoulder rig the most when I lived in AZ and open carried in the desert alot.  It was by far the most comfortable way to carry and drive my jeep around. 

[roo_ster]

One of the most important considerations, regardless of carry method, is weapon security. That is both physical and emotional.

Are you aware of where your weapon is in relation to someone who may wish to take it from you?

I concur. 

My most common carry is IWB at 3:30-4:00, no thumb break.  Most times, the quality belt & holster allow me to nearly forget I am packing.  But, when I am near people, I get awfully conscious of it, me, & them.