Author Topic: Yay and Nay votes on House bill for Health Care  (Read 12751 times)

Nightfall

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Re: Yay and Nay votes on House bill for Health Care
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2010, 02:49:49 AM »
Here's a quip from Pelosi:

"Imagine an economy where people could follow their passions or their talent and without having to worry that their children would not have health insurance."

In other words, imagine a society where producing goods and services that others find value in, and thus pay you money for, is no longer the path to having a somewhat secure/sustainable lifestyle. Instead, imagine a society where the failed artist producing works only he finds value in can have the same securities as the man producing a good or service that many use and depend on.

True capitalism is so last century. Throwing the obligatory "it's for the children" spin doesn't hide the underlying societal shift that's going on here.  ;/
It is difficult if not impossible to reason a person out of a position they did not reason themselves into. - 230RN

Gowen

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Re: Yay and Nay votes on House bill for Health Care
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2010, 05:08:03 AM »
So, what does this boondoggle do to the average working Joe?

Say a fella has health insurance from his employer right now, and makes $60K.

How much do his taxes go up?  What happens to his health care?

How does that change if he made $100K instead of $60K?

Just trying to plan to cope with this crap until it can be repealed... not endorsing it by any means. [barf]

His employer will be like every other employer, they will drop his health care coverage for .gov run health care.  Why pay for it when the .gov provides it?
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Re: Yay and Nay votes on House bill for Health Care
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2010, 05:39:55 AM »


His employer will be like every other employer, they will drop his health care coverage for .gov run health care.  Why pay for it when the .gov provides it?


That is probably what will happen. 

If it doesn't, there are other considerations.  In my case, I have once of those "Cadillac plans".  Apparently they base that interpretation on the cost of the plan rather than what the plan actually offers.  My plan is also a great one.  So I guess if my employer continues to offer it, I'll be paying more taxes which may make me switch to an inferior one.  But I suspect the benefit will go away.

Basically, I see higher taxes, less actual coverage, and a few other negatives.  It's really all conjecture though, since they didn't really pass a plan yet- they passed a plan of a plan.  What they passed will be changed as they manipulate it into what they wanted all along.  It doesn't look good.

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Re: Yay and Nay votes on House bill for Health Care
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2010, 06:31:51 AM »
FYI- MSN has a poll.  At this point, 50-and some odd percent are angry at that the bill passed. About 23 percent like it.

Go there and use the same tactic Obama's Chicago machine uses- Vote early and vote often!  >:D

Not that it will make any difference as we now have a bunch of politicians who just know they are smarter than we are.  They will pass whatever they want and we'll just bend over because it's all for our own good.  [barf]

roo_ster

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Re: Yay and Nay votes on House bill for Health Care
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2010, 07:06:55 AM »
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Yay and Nay votes on House bill for Health Care
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2010, 09:27:33 AM »
That's part of the big problem, No one can really say for sure what it will do since no one has actually been able to read exactly what has just been passed.
I'm pretty certain taxes will go up and actual access to health care will go down. How long it will take fo it to be noticable is hard to guess.
Listening to the dems on Morning Joe thit morning it looks like they are framing this as "Just like the Civil Rights Act". That way they can frame any opposition as being racist in nature.
It may not be over yet but the fat lady is warming up her voice.
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Boomhauer

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Re: Yay and Nay votes on House bill for Health Care
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2010, 11:38:57 AM »
You can call it "Suicide in November" all you want, but mark my words, this won't hurt them much. They will either stay in power or return to power shortly...

They have America by the short hairs and they know it. This won't be solved by a traditional election, this is now up to the States vs. the Federal Government...




« Last Edit: March 22, 2010, 11:54:12 AM by Avenger29 »
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the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Yay and Nay votes on House bill for Health Care
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2010, 12:17:52 PM »
So, what does this boondoggle do to the average working Joe?

Say a fella has health insurance from his employer right now, and makes $60K.

How much do his taxes go up?  What happens to his health care?

How does that change if he made $100K instead of $60K?

Just trying to plan to cope with this crap until it can be repealed... not endorsing it by any means. [barf]

Short answer: we don't entirely know.  They didn't bother to read the bill, or let any of us read it, before they passed it.  As Pelosi said, "We have to pass it to find out what's in it."

If the bill is anything like what they've been discussing, it'll mean the following things:

Insurance costs will skyrocket.  Doesn't matter whether you pay them directly or your employer pays them on your behalf.  Your health care costs just went through the roof.

All companies will be required to pay for over-priced insurance for their workers, or pay fines to the IRS.

Medicare funds are raided to pay for the new bill, which will leave Medicare horrendously underfunded.  Expect these goons in Congress to come back in a year or three and insist on additional taxes to fund Medicare, which will really amount to additional taxes to fund the current health care bill that they concealed from the CBO in order to be able to lie about this bill reducing the deficit.

There's a new Medicare tax applied to capital gains.  I think it's 5%.

The worst financial risks will now be subsidized by people who don't represent any risk.  Whether you're healthy or not you'll pay as much as the worst diabetic, cancer-ridden, congestive-heart-failure, obese tobacco smoker who needs a few lung transplants.  This is to make insurance more "fair".

On top of that, you'll no longer be able to buy any type of insurance of your choosing.  The bill mandates that all insurance plans sold must meet new Federal standards.  If you've chosen to use a minimalist insurance plan in the past, your existing plan will be outlawed.  If you have an expensive comprehensive plan, they'll still probably need to make some changes to comply with the new government fiat, further increasing the costs and covering things you'd never want coverage for.

If you choose not to buy one of these new expensive health plans, you'll be fined by the IRS for non-compliance.  If your employer helps you pay for one of these overpriced, legally-required health plans, the IRS will tax you on the amount paid.

In short, health care will become far more expensive, businesses will have no choice but to let additional workers go or go out of business, and none of the underlying problems with rising medical costs will be addressed.  Since nothing is done to get patients involved in the pricing of their medical care, costs will continue to spiral out of control.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2010, 12:22:49 PM by Headless Thompson Gunner »

Tallpine

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Re: Yay and Nay votes on House bill for Health Care
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2010, 12:59:19 PM »
They're going to have a hard time getting more money out of the 20+% of folks who are unemployed, or forcing them to buy health insurance with money they don't have  =|

Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Yay and Nay votes on House bill for Health Care
« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2010, 02:22:33 PM »
Those people aren't going to pay more.  You are going to pay more, to pay for them.

sanglant

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Re: Yay and Nay votes on House bill for Health Care
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2010, 04:13:55 PM »
FYI- MSN has a poll.  At this point, 50-and some odd percent are angry at that the bill passed. About 23 percent like it.

Go there and use the same tactic Obama's Chicago machine uses- Vote early and vote often!  >:D

Not that it will make any difference as we now have a bunch of politicians who just know they are smarter than we are.  They will pass whatever they want and we'll just bend over because it's all for our own good.  [barf]
looks like they didn't like the results, it's gone. :lol:

Tallpine

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Re: Yay and Nay votes on House bill for Health Care
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2010, 05:44:27 PM »
Those people aren't going to pay more.  You are going to pay more, to pay for them.

I'd have to have a job again, first :(
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Viking

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Re: Yay and Nay votes on House bill for Health Care
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2010, 05:50:42 PM »
I'd have to have a job again, first :(
Government Tractor Factory #27 will offer you a job, Comrade! :police:
Marvellous benefits include three meals per day and bullet to the head behind the shed if you are severely ill Comrade! What else can you want in glorious People's Republic Of North America? :police:
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Tallpine

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Re: Yay and Nay votes on House bill for Health Care
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2010, 06:16:49 PM »
Government Tractor Factory #27 will offer you a job, Comrade! :police:
Marvellous benefits include three meals per day and bullet to the head behind the shed if you are severely ill Comrade! What else can you want in glorious People's Republic Of North America? :police:

We have tractor factories in the USA now ?  :O

Who knew?  :lol:
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Monkeyleg

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Re: Yay and Nay votes on House bill for Health Care
« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2010, 06:25:10 PM »
We build Obamacar, too, nyet?

Viking

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Re: Yay and Nay votes on House bill for Health Care
« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2010, 06:27:50 PM »
We have tractor factories in the USA now ?  :O

Who knew?  :lol:
Will soon have Comrade! Chairman Obama will see to it! :police:
For Great Worker Revolution tractors are needed! :police:
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sanglant

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Re: Yay and Nay votes on House bill for Health Care
« Reply #42 on: March 22, 2010, 07:12:24 PM »

Tallpine

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Re: Yay and Nay votes on House bill for Health Care
« Reply #43 on: March 22, 2010, 08:24:48 PM »
Will soon have Comrade! Chairman Obama will see to it! :police:
For Great Worker Revolution tractors are needed! :police:

With so many unemployed workers, all they will need is a harness factory .... ;/
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

brimic

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Re: Yay and Nay votes on House bill for Health Care
« Reply #44 on: March 22, 2010, 09:30:38 PM »
Quote
Knowing what the Democrats are planning(rushed amnesty bill, allowing massive new Democrat registration of new citizens beholden to them), I see no choice but to break it. Break the machine, drain the money out, hasten our countries demise as quickly as possible. Anybody have any ideas?

Swallow your pride and use as much government controlled healthcare when the time comes. There are a lot fo injuries and ailments that you can fake and demand MRIs/CT scans, etc. Use the doctor's office as much as possible, go there if you have a cold. It will cost you more, I would imagine, but if we can get 1 million, 10 million people to do the same, the machine will be broken in short order. The faster we can get the system to a system of rationing, the more people will start to bitch and stay angry about it.
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grey54956

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Re: Yay and Nay votes on House bill for Health Care
« Reply #45 on: March 22, 2010, 10:19:55 PM »
Perhaps we need a different mindset.

We should actively encourage our employers to discard health insurance plans.  Their fine is significantly less than the cost of insurance.  Individual fines are also significantly less than the cost of insurance.  Only buy insurance when you become ill. 

The insurance companies will become investment banks or something like that, once insurance is no longer likely to be profitable.  This will essentially leave gov't with the bill, and it will be catastrophic.  Bankrupt the system, and let is collapse.  Then we can build a new system.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Yay and Nay votes on House bill for Health Care
« Reply #46 on: March 23, 2010, 04:26:45 AM »
Wait, I don't understand:

You are seriously advocating deliberately sabotaging America's health care system?

You realize that'll disrupt not merely some minor bureaucracy service for people who are waiting at the DMV or whatnot, but medical care for people with broken limbs and cancer and deadly diseases?
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DittoHead

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Re: Yay and Nay votes on House bill for Health Care
« Reply #47 on: March 23, 2010, 07:34:17 AM »
Wait, I don't understand:

You are seriously advocating deliberately sabotaging America's health care system?

You realize that'll disrupt not merely some minor bureaucracy service for people who are waiting at the DMV or whatnot, but medical care for people with broken limbs and cancer and deadly diseases?


Sometimes a petulant child will break their own toys during a tantrum. Reasoning with them rarely works.  =|
In the moral, catatonic stupor America finds itself in today it is only disagreement we seek, and the more virulent that disagreement, the better.

brimic

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Re: Yay and Nay votes on House bill for Health Care
« Reply #48 on: March 23, 2010, 11:51:45 AM »
Quote
Wait, I don't understand:

You are seriously advocating deliberately sabotaging America's health care system?

You realize that'll disrupt not merely some minor bureaucracy service for people who are waiting at the DMV or whatnot, but medical care for people with broken limbs and cancer and deadly diseases?

I have one of those so-called 'Caddillac insurance plans' right now. I expect that to go away in the next few years. My profession (chemist) has some serious downsides (much increased odds of cancer/organ failure) which is the reason why we normally have very good insurance plans. With Obamacare, I can pretty much forsee getting cancer 20-30 years from now and not getting the top notch health care that would be available through my current insurance plan.

There are two good ways to kill a machine- throw sand in the gears, or overwork it and burn it out. I plan to do my best to do both.
 
If you don't kill the beast, it will swallow you whole.
Quote
Sometimes a petulant child will break their own toys during a tantrum. Reasoning with them rarely works.

Its a petulant child who supports a system that takes from one and gives to another. A petulent child is one who is wrapped up in crying "that's not fair!" Adults get the job at hand done.
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zxcvbob

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Re: Yay and Nay votes on House bill for Health Care
« Reply #49 on: March 23, 2010, 01:56:44 PM »
I wonder if the insurance plan the Congress has is considered a "Cadillac plan" or did they exempt themselves again?  :cuss:
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