Oil WAR...just a matter of time

[telewinz]

With gas prices (energy) going up so early this year and some saying $3.50 a gallon by July, do you think our way of life can go unchanged without armed conflict?

[Standing Wolf]

If all else fails, perhaps we could drill for oil in Alaska. Heck, we could even drill for oil in the People's Republic of California.

[Phantom Warrior]

That's pretty standard overseas.  When I was in Seoul, South Korea in 2003 I figured that the price of gas was about $4/gallon (I had to convert from won/liter to dollars/gallon).  And the papers keeps saying that, taking inflation into account, oil would have to hit $90 a barrel to be even comparable to the 80s.  I don't think $3.50 is close to being enough for war.

But I agree we need to quit dicking around and start taking advantage of all the oil we have right here at home.

[Wildalaska]

If all else fails, perhaps we could drill for oil in Alaska.

Chalk one up...Alaskans 1, Whiny Ignorant lefty Extemeists 0

WildoilboyAlaska

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

With gas prices (energy) going up so early this year and some saying $3.50 a gallon by July, do you think our way of life can go unchanged without armed conflict

No, we'd be back to where we were in the 70's during the Arab oil embargos: gas lines, even/odd gas days, priority at US refineries for heating oil and diesel fuel, etc.

As for war, if a shortage were coupled with another major terror attack in the US, the American people would support seizure of Saudi Arabia's oil fields for sure.

[garyk/nm]

Hmmmmm, how about seizing Mexico's oil fields instead? We're already supporting a sizable number of their citizens, it's about time they started picking up part of the tab. Closer to home, too.

[Sean Smith]

Gee, we invaded a country full of oil (Iraq), and oil prices went UP.  Why wouldn't that happen if we invaded somewhere else, too?

[Waitone]

I'm inclined to think armed conflict is a ways off.  

I am willing to predict the end of the domination of natural resources by environmental nazis.  For three decades we've bowed and scraped to the god of the envoronment.  There are consequences that naturally flow from certain religious assumptions.  One of those consequences is artifical constraints on energy development.  We are now locked into easily a decade of historically unacceptably high energy costs.  No, alternatives are not practical.  The only solution in the next decade will be massive drilling and refinery construction.  The fight in congress will be something to behold.

ANWR is only the first roll back environmental nazis will experience.

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

Hmmmmm, how about seizing Mexico's oil fields instead? We're already supporting a sizable number of their citizens, it's about time they started picking up part of the tab. Closer to home, too.

Seizing Mexico's fields would unleash a firestorm of violence from the millions of Mexican illegals here in the US. Contrasted with Saudi's fields that are in the middle of nowhere and thus defensable, plus the wahabbis already hate us as much as humanly possible anyways, no downside there.

I say we go for it.  Just compensation for the 9/11 attacks that the Saudi Governmant was likely involved in.

[Werewolf]

Taking over countries for their oil...

Not practical. The fields themselves would be easy targets and the pipelines used to move the oil to ports for shipment are even easier targets for irregulars to take out.

End result would be (just like in Iraq) less oil out after the takeover than before.

Besides all we'd be doing is to slow down the inevitable. There is not an infinite amount of oil on the planet. It will run out - probably in the next 30 to 50 years IMO.

The better call is to develop an alternate and cheap source of energy. The US is know for it's ingenuity and research capabilities. That and growing food is what we do best in the world. Finding a cheap alternative is doable. There just needs to be a real incentive to do it and a way to cut the oil stranglehold on the auto industry.

I don't have the answers but our children or grandchildren surely will or TEOTWAWKI will surely become reality.

[M67]

You've used all your own oil (excluding those Alaskan fields), so now it's time to resort to armed robbery? While constantly bitching and moaning about how the UN and all your allies fail to support the noble cause?
(Before you flame; yes, I am referring to Iraq - but no, I do not feel sorry for Saddam, he should have been killed 15 years ago when the opportunity was there. I do support the fact that my own country has soldiers there, when the situation is as it is. I am however sceptical about how wisely this whole thing was handled from the beginning.)

It's a free market out there. Supply and demand and all that. It's not like the Arab world has a monopoly, like they almost had in the early 70s. From memory I think the list of the five largest oil exporters in the world is Saudi Arabia, Norway, Russia, Venezuela and Mexico, in that order.

No, alternatives are not practical.

Practical or not, it's the only way. Oil is not a renewable resource. Well, it is but most of us would find 100 million years a bit long to wait. If the Chinese decide they all want cars, and they will as soon as they can afford to, the supplies will not last that long.

I'm not all that worried. A hundred years ago the experts were worried that the growing cities would be buried under hundreds of feet of horse dung as a result of the increased traffic. They were also worried that the depletion of the guano reserves in Chile would lead to world wide famine. Solutions have a way of popping up when they are needed. Alternatives to oil will have to be found in the next few decades. I think alternatives will be practical as soon as they have to be.

BTW, did you notice that my country is the second largest oil exporter in the world? Wanna know what gas costs here? Six dollars a gallon. ($6, I didn't make a conversion error.) That's not supply and demand, that's tax. Do we complain? Yes, but it's not really a big thing. Does that mean we can afford it? Yes. Gas is probably cheaper now than it has ever been compared to salaries and other prices. It's probably the same in the US, that most people have more money and more financial freedom now than ever before. $3, $6, $10 - I don't think it's the end of the world, at least not as long as the oil price reflects other prices and the increase in people's available income.

[feedthehogs]

Go to war with whom? The demand by China and India is creating this problem. They have just as much right to oil as we do.

Even if we drill in our own back yard, prices won't drop.

The other problem is we are at max capacity of our refineries and need more but the usual, not in my back yard, and the tree huggers won't let them be built.

The economy is in for a rude awakening this third and fourth quarter. Hold on to your wallets. Something about hitting the fan.

[telewinz]

Why not "encourage" the oil producers to increase their production instead of restricting the supply of oil in order to increase prices (and profit)?  Are you really that willing to give up your way of life so easily or is it that you don't fully understand the REAL cost of expensive energy?  Japan went to war with the U.S. in 1941 for much less cause.

[spacemanspiff]

Seizing Mexico's fields would unleash a firestorm of violence from the millions of Mexican illegals here in the US

really? they'd fight a losing war, which would end in the illegals either being killed in the conflict, or shipped back to their motherland?

i say 'bring it!'

[jefnvk]

Practical or not, it's the only way. Oil is not a renewable resource. Well, it is but most of us would find 100 million years a bit long to wait. If the Chinese decide they all want cars, and they will as soon as they can afford to, the supplies will not last that long.

Well, it is simple then.  Oil embargo on China

[doczinn]

No, alternatives are not practical.

Well, that's pretty subjective. If gas costs ten dollars a gallon, and you get 30 miles per gallon, that's 33 cents per mile. If your electric car will do it for 30 cents per mile, it's pretty damn practical.

[50 Shooter]

Only Telewinz had it right, they keep cutting production on us and that's what's driving the price. The U.S. has enough oil reserves to last for 300 years! The oil in Alaska doesn't even come to CONUS, it's shipped to other countries.

Alternate fuels are the only way to go but it won't happen anytime soon, why? The oil companies are the ones fighting it! Do you think they want to give up their monopoly? They're making BILLIONS of dollars in profits and don't want to see that go away.

As soon as everyone sees that the whole oil/gas price is a scam the better. If you want to start a war with someone, take it to the oil companies first! Don't forget revolution as our own government/politicians are making money off this/us also.

[grampster]

Nuclear Energy produces electricity.  Electricity is energy.  Build and use nuke plants to produce all sorts of energy that we use oil for now.  Reduces dependence on oil and natural gas.  Dixie Lee Ray had the answer to disposal of Nuke waste.  Enclose it in glass, put it in a submersible ballistic missile and let it  drive itself a mile or so deep in the muck of the Atlantic or Pacific ocean.  Let the Chinamen and emerging 3rd world scuffle with the islamofascists and tin pot dictators for their oil.  We would have all we need here and in Canada.  Canada may have it's faults.  Pragmatism is not one of them.  Make sure we are careful within reason and tell the radical tree huggers to piss off, we got your point but you went too far.
Build elevated electro magnetic trains on the freeway and present RR rights of way.  Use Nuke energy to produce the energy to run them.  Hauls passengers and freight E and W, N and S.  Build electro mag feeder lines.  Put all able bodied welfare/medicaire/medicaide/folks to work on the train system.  Job creation would go through the roof.  High speed elevated trains make RR crossing problems moot.
Divert money from maintaining freeways to the train system.  Nationalize the system and bid segments out to private sector.  Get serious about hydrogen and create an incentive system for R & D of delivery systems.  Nationalize this as well and put segments out to bid to private sector.  Gubmint does good with organization.  Gubmint does bad in inplementation.  Put reality in the law that said oil from Alaska could not be exported does not mean hauling the oil to Kali and refining it THEN exporting it does not follow the spirit of the law.  Start pumping oil off our coasts, out of line of sight.  Explore oil and gas extraction under the Great Lakes out of line of sight.
Call up a voluntary militia from each state and go to Congress.  Take Congress Critters out to the wood shed and paddle their behinds, take away their $5000.00 suits, put 'em back in their bib overhauls and remind them they work for us, not the other way around.  (This part is a fantasy)  The first two paragraphs need not be.

[matt1911]

No one has mentioned alcohol as a fuel source. Yes it burns at twice the rate as gas,and eats aluminum, but it can be made by anything that rots,so it is totaly renewable,how many less land fills would we need?No pollution as with fossials,burns cooler than gas=less engine wear, near equal preformance as gas.
What are the down sides? I cannot see it costing more to produce than current fuel prices,hasn't there been good success with diesal replacements made from veggie oils?
There is a horrible ,eye watering smell to alky burners(at least in stock car racing) but i'm sure that could beovercome easily,what am i missing? why hasn't this been explored more?
Matt

[trapperjohn]

the trouble with alcohol, or any fuel made from Bio-mass is that there just isnt enough land to produce enough of it. That and the probelm that it takes biomass that would generaly rot in the groung and provide nutrients to the next generation of plants that would grow on the same land. it wouldnt take long for that land to be depleted if we burned all the stuff that was growing there.

[Sean Smith]

The ultimate answer is nuclear power.  If we just used Uranium enriched in U235, we'd have several centuries' worth of power, then when that runs low, you use what's left to breed Pu239 from U238, and have a few thousand years of power.  By then, nuclear fusion will be practical and we can tell the entire universe to go piss off.

[jefnvk]

Yeah, nuke powered cars

(hey, they can do it with subs, why not cars?)

[RevDisk]

Oil wars would only benefit the oil companies, by driving up the cost of gas.  Any country being invaded will blow up their infrastructure to prevent us from using it.  See Iraq for case in point.  Every time we get the pipeline open, it's bombed within a week or two.  The only way to safeguard said infrastructure would be either killing all the locals, or moving them far out of the area with the understanding that they will be killed if they go within 100 miles of any infrastructure.   I don't see the world standing by this, nor would most American citizens.  (I hope.)

Armed robbery is not a valid option for practical as well as moral reasons.  I just hope our leaders know this.

We're hitting the ends of 'peak oil' within a couple decades.  Peak oil being good quality oil that is cheap and easy to drill, ship and refine.  Yes, there is plenty of oil in out of the way places that is not peak oil, but it's not the best quality nor cost-effective to drill, ship and refine.

Alternative fuels will start becoming reality when it is cost effective to sink enough R&D into it and also deal with the logistical issues.  Gas stations are all over the US.  Hydrogen or fuel alcohol stations are not.  I also support more nuclear power stations, but the idea of shooting the waste into the Atlantic is not exactly the best option for disposal.  Uranium and human bodies don't mix well.  It'll be initially costly to properly dispose of nuclear waste, but cheaper in the end.

[TarpleyG]

"Necessity is the mother of invention."  Something will work out.

Greg

[Paddy]

There won't be any 'armed conflict'.  We'll just bend over, take it up to the hilt, and pay whatever it costs, all the while whining and complaining like the wusses we are.