How Diversity Punishes Asians, Poor Whites and Lots of Others

[roo_ster]

http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2010/07/how_diversity_punishes_asians.html

http://www.mindingthecampus.com/forum/2010/07/yes_elite_colleges_are_biased.html

http://press.princeton.edu/titles/9072.html


"Diversity" to elite colleges means race, period, full stop.


Study done examining eight of the most highly competitive colleges' entering freshmen, avg SAT score 1360/1600, encompassing 245K applicants, & 9K enrolled students.

~50% of those categorized as "black" are recent Caribbean or African immigrants with no ancestors in America before the end of either slavery or Jim Crow.

Relative SAT bonuses (relative to white student applicant):
Black: 310/1600
Hispanic: 130/1600
Asian: -140/1600
[This is really effing huge, as the higher the scores, the more significant is a SAT point.  And they are already starting out with relatively high scores.]

To have the same probability of admission as a black applicant with a SAT of 1100/1600, they would need to ear the following:
Hispanic 1230
White 1410
Asian 1550

WRT class/family income, hisp, black, & asian were more likely to be granted admission the poorer they were.  Whites, OTOH, were less likely to be granted admission the poorer they were.  Almost all needs-based school-provided financial aid went to poor blacks and hispanics.  Holding academic metrics constant, affluent white students had a 0.28 probability to get an admission letter whereas the poor white students had a 0.08 prob.  This was roughly inverted for minorities.

Relatively speaking, holding academic metrics constant, the likelihood of admission of poor minorities relative to poor whites:
Asians 7X
Hisp 8X
Black 10X

"Career-oriented activities" included in an application severely reduced the likelihood of admission (holding academic achievement constant) and the greater the COA rank or honor, the more severe the reduction.  COA were almost uniformly "Red State" activities:
JrROTC in high school
4-H
Future Farmers of America
CAP

The reduction was about 60%-65% for those who were officers or won awards in the above activities.  There was no reduction found for activities that were "community organizing-ish" in nature.

Those who actually attended these schools were more likely to have known/been acquainted with someone who served in a foreign military than someone who served in the US military.


Here are a couple more articles written on the topic:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=181357

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/19/opinion/19douthat.html?_r=1


I think it is fair to say that if you are white, the admissions folks at the tops schools don't care if you **** off and die.  If you are poor and white that they don't care if you **** off and DIAF.  If you are poor, white, and participate in "Career Oriented Activities," they are hoping you **** off and DIAF.  In church.

[RevDisk]

"Career-oriented activities" included in an application severely reduced the likelihood of admission (holding academic achievement constant) and the greater the COA rank or honor, the more severe the reduction.  COA were almost uniformly "Red State" activities:
JrROTC in high school
4-H
Future Farmers of America
CAP

The reduction was about 60%-65% for those who were officers or won awards in the above activities.  There was no reduction found for activities that were "community organizing-ish" in nature.

Those who actually attended these schools were more likely to have known/been acquainted with someone who served in a foreign military than someone who served in the US military.

...

I am REALLY pissed.  I had pretty good (hair under 1400) SAT scores and a laundry list of activities.  I got rejected from a good number of schools.  I thought the competition was just really stiff.

I wonder what the penalties would be for refusing to fill in race?   Anyone have numbers on that?  Encourage an involuntary end to discrimination by refusing to participate in their metrics?

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

Social engineering at it best.

[vaskidmark]

...

I am REALLY pissed.  I had pretty good (hair under 1400) SAT scores and a laundry list of activities.  I got rejected from a good number of schools.  I thought the competition was just really stiff.

I wonder what the penalties would be for refusing to fill in race?   Anyone have numbers on that?  Encourage an involuntary end to discrimination by refusing to participate in their metrics?

You are not allowed to not indicate your race.  The information is needed so that the institution of higher learning can submit numbers to DOJ/DOE/EIEIO to prove that they are not discriminating against minorities - the right minorities, that is.  They cannot process the application without the information.  It may, like the census, even be illegal to withhold the information.

But sometimes the system fouls itself up because of numbers.  My former daughter was accepted into both a city high school for the academically gifted due more to being a minority (caucasian - yes that's the term they used) and one of the state-operated universities for being a triple minority (non-black, not male, not financially disadvantaged).  Amazingly, that last minority status got her full grants in aid!

stay safe.

[HankB]

I wonder what the penalties would be for refusing to fill in race? 

When I was in college, I often worked in the registrar's office during admissions. (Aside from the pay - minumum wage - I got to sign up for my classes before registration actually opened. Good schedule, no lines.)

There were a LARGE number of obviously Caucasian students who had indicated "African American" on their forms. As one stated, "Didn't man BEGIN in Africa, somewhere near Oulduvai Gorge?" 

Also a LARGE number of obviously Caucasian students indicated "African American" on their financial aid forms to the Illinois State Scholarship Commission; supposedly, aid depended ONLY on financial need . . . but comparing results showed that obviously wasn't true. (I don't claim to be African American, but, having been born here, I AM a Native American!)

[JonnyB]

When I was in college, I often worked in the registrar's office during admissions. (Aside from the pay - minumum wage - I got to sign up for my classes before registration actually opened. Good schedule, no lines.)

There were a LARGE number of obviously Caucasian students who had indicated "African American" on their forms. As one stated, "Didn't man BEGIN in Africa, somewhere near Oulduvai Gorge?" 

Also a LARGE number of obviously Caucasian students indicated "African American" on their financial aid forms to the Illinois State Scholarship Commission; supposedly, aid depended ONLY on financial need . . . but comparing results showed that obviously wasn't true. (I don't claim to be African American, but, having been born here, I AM a Native American!)

When my younger son went to college (MSU - Mankato) a fellow student had emigrated (immigrated?) to the US from South Africa. As a joke, he put in "African-American" - a true statement - on one form. The administration was *not* amused.

jb

[makattak]

emigrated (immigrated?) to the US from South Africa.

Immigrated to the US, emigrated from South Africa.

You immigrate to some place, you emigrate from another.

In migrarare (immigrare) to go in

e migrare (emigrare) to go from (to migrate)

[Monkeyleg]

Immigrated to the US, emigrated from South Africa.

You immigrate to some place, you emigrate from another.

In migrarare (immigrare) to go in

e migrare (emigrare) to go from (to migrate)

Teacher's pet.

[RevDisk]

You are not allowed to not indicate your race.  The information is needed so that the institution of higher learning can submit numbers to DOJ/DOE/EIEIO to prove that they are not discriminating against minorities - the right minorities, that is.  They cannot process the application without the information.  It may, like the census, even be illegal to withhold the information.

But sometimes the system fouls itself up because of numbers.  My former daughter was accepted into both a city high school for the academically gifted due more to being a minority (caucasian - yes that's the term they used) and one of the state-operated universities for being a triple minority (non-black, not male, not financially disadvantaged).  Amazingly, that last minority status got her full grants in aid!

stay safe.

WTF?  What happened to the Fifth?  How is it illegal to refuse to answer if the information will be used against you in a hostile manner by government or government funded entities?

When my younger son went to college (MSU - Mankato) a fellow student had emigrated (immigrated?) to the US from South Africa. As a joke, he put in "African-American" - a true statement - on one form. The administration was *not* amused.

jb

Had a female friend emigrated from SA as well.  She didn't spend too much time in the cities, so she's not exactly up on American culture.  Her family shipped her to the US when things got slightly touchy (locals were chopping off more heads than usual).  She checked "African American", fully thinking it meant people from directly Africa that are now Americans. 

She got accepted and got an automatic note to go to the Diversity Office or whatever it was.   Uhm.  Apparently the results were impressive.  She was verbally harassed at great length and threatened with physical violence.  Apparently they thought she was some foot soldier of the apartheid government, instead of being a 17 year old girl.  On the plus side, her family got a lengthy discount on her tuition when the administrative folks tried to head off a law suit.

When I was in college, I often worked in the registrar's office during admissions. (Aside from the pay - minumum wage - I got to sign up for my classes before registration actually opened. Good schedule, no lines.)

There were a LARGE number of obviously Caucasian students who had indicated "African American" on their forms. As one stated, "Didn't man BEGIN in Africa, somewhere near Oulduvai Gorge?" 

Also a LARGE number of obviously Caucasian students indicated "African American" on their financial aid forms to the Illinois State Scholarship Commission; supposedly, aid depended ONLY on financial need . . . but comparing results showed that obviously wasn't true. (I don't claim to be African American, but, having been born here, I AM a Native American!)

What happens to the folks who do so?

[makattak]

Also a LARGE number of obviously Caucasian students indicated "African American" on their financial aid forms to the Illinois State Scholarship Commission; supposedly, aid depended ONLY on financial need . . . but comparing results showed that obviously wasn't true. (I don't claim to be African American, but, having been born here, I AM a Native American!)

You know, I should really do a little more genealogy on my dad's side of the family.

Just from his dad's side of the family, I'm nearly 1/8th American Indian.

If I can document his mom's side (who, from all appearances are MORE Indian), I can sign myself up for the diversity train. Wooo Woo!!

(Yes, my tongue is firmly planted in cheek.)

[Monkeyleg]

This isn't anything new, although it's become a deeper problem over the years.

In 1970, my friend applied for a student loan. He should have been turned down but, because he was 1/8 indian, he got the loan. He's as white as you can get. I, of course, couldn't get any aid whatsoever.

I guess it didn't matter that a great great uncle was an indentured servant until about 1900, long after the African-American slaves in the US had been freed. Irish need not apply for aggrieved status.

[Nitrogen]

I wonder how much trouble I could get into by saying i'm Black.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091991/

[HankB]

When I was in college, I often worked in the registrar's office during admissions. (Aside from the pay - minumum wage - I got to sign up for my classes before registration actually opened. Good schedule, no lines.)

There were a LARGE number of obviously Caucasian students who had indicated "African American" on their forms. As one stated, "Didn't man BEGIN in Africa, somewhere near Oulduvai Gorge?" 

Also a LARGE number of obviously Caucasian students indicated "African American" on their financial aid forms to the Illinois State Scholarship Commission; supposedly, aid depended ONLY on financial need . . . but comparing results showed that obviously wasn't true. (I don't claim to be African American, but, having been born here, I AM a Native American!)

What happens to the folks who do so?

They got student aid. To the best of my knowledge, nobody was ever caught or sanctioned. The theory was that since ISSC explicitly stated that aid was based ONLY on financial need, so long as the financial stuff was OK, "busting" someone for . . . accidentally . . . putting down the wrong race would have resulted in bad publicity, and put the lie to their claim of being "race-neutral" in the granting of scholarshipe.

When my younger son went to college (MSU - Mankato) a fellow student had emigrated (immigrated?) to the US from South Africa. As a joke, he put in "African-American" - a true statement - on one form. The administration was *not* amused.

Some years after graduating, I met another engineer in the exact same situation - he'd come to the USA as a tyke with his parents, having been born in Pretoria. He said it was an immense help in getting student aid.

[RoadKingLarry]

Obviusly those minorities need the extra help since they must not be capable of success on their own abilities [/sarcasm]

Maybe it's just a take what you can get mentality or maybe after a few generations of being told something they actually believe they can't succede on thier own merits and ability.

It would tend to piss me off some if I was told I was incapable of competeing academicaly on a level playing field.

[MicroBalrog]

To quote House, "would you rather I have hired you based on an innate gift of intelligence than an innate gift of beauty"?

There are certain US colleges which are known to be... friendly towards Jewish applicants. I have applied to one of those, and was accepted. I did not get financial aid, so I didn't go.